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Interesting headlines today in the news.

Politics Take Hold of Bailout Proposal

Conservatives Viewed Bailout Plan as Last Straw

A Balancing Act as McCain Faces a Divided Party and a Skeptical Public

I especially note that last one.

"But remember, this is an incredibly difficult time that we’re in," Mr. McCain then added, according to Mr. Graham. "Don’t go too far."

The double-edged message reflects the delicate balancing act that Mr. McCain appears to be attempting as he addresses a Wall Street bailout package that has aroused deep divisions within his party and fierce public skepticism. After casting himself as a leader who could broker an end to the financial crisis, Mr. McCain faced intense questions on Friday about what, if anything, he had done to move the negotiations forward, having returned to Washington only to see a tentative deal collapse.

Mr. McCain did not explicitly side with the House Republicans who derailed the deal on Thursday. But neither did he discourage them, nor put forth his own bailout plan, nor endorse the White House proposal to have the government buy up distressed mortgage assets from faltering Wall Street firms. But by keeping his views to himself, Mr. McCain kept the House revolt alive, a move that infuriated the White House and Congressional Democrats, but one that did bring him accolades from House Republicans, who say Mr. McCain at least helped get their voices heard

House Republicans, unable to tie things in knots the way their GOP Senate colleagues (hello, Tom Coburn) can, have been chafing at the bit since 2006. Being House Republicans and not completely in touch with reality, they ignore the issues that got them thrown out of power, and in their fantasies they like to pretend it's 1995, they're about to shut down the government and this time, they'll win.

So, the definition of "leadership" according to McCain is placate the wingers (that's why McCain will never win on being the "change" candidate - what else is new?) Of course, McCain didn't even do that, because after making negotiations infinitely more rancorous and complex, McCain skipped town to go to Oxford, MS, where he could on stage announce

LEHRER: Are you going to vote for the plan, Senator McCain?

MCCAIN: I -- I hope so. And I...

LEHRER: As a United States senator...

MCCAIN: Sure.

LEHRER: ... you're going to vote for the plan?

MCCAIN: Sure.

All the phony populist posturing means that in the end, conservatives in the House get shafted, and once again McCain stands cheek to cheek with the unpopular Bush. Apparently, everyone dislikes House Republicans except House Republicans.

However, McCain was willing to throw them this bone:

MCCAIN: How about a spending freeze on everything but defense, veteran affairs and entitlement programs.

LEHRER: Spending freeze?

MCCAIN: I think we ought to seriously consider with the exceptions the caring of veterans national defense and several other vital issues.

LEHRER: Would you go for that?

OBAMA: The problem with a spending freeze is you're using a hatchet where you need a scalpel. There are some programs that are very important that are under funded. I went to increase early childhood education and the notion that we should freeze that when there may be, for example, this Medicare subsidy doesn't make sense.

Spending freeze? Back to 1995, and again the reminder that House Republicans were the loser on that exchange.

The question, nonetheless, comes up in stark terms. What happens to the Republican party when McCain loses? What happens when Bush is gone? How do the Wall Street Republicans and the Main Street Republicans act in concert on the bailout, and how do they react to the coming rejection of Sarah Palin as a viable candidate (McCain brought her up from the minors way too early, and ruined her career because of it?) How do the social conservatives react to losing? How does the business wing react to the social conservatives losing?

The anger with McCain will be palpable because McCain and House Republicans stand for different principles. House Republicans are ideology over country (and McCain is winning over everything), and I cannot imagine this is all going to go down well for any of them when this is all over.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:30 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Rush Limbaugh said that if McCain wins this (14+ / 0-)

    would be the end of the Repub party. In part this was probably what he meant.

    •  so is Rush not endorsing mccain? (8+ / 0-)

      as for the question posed in this page as far as what the the GOP will have to do to survive their fracture--my answer is intellectual yet very fair:

      BWAAAAAAAHH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

      LOOOOOOOOOOSERS!!!!

      The Seminole Democrat
      A blue voice calling from the deep red

      by SemDem on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:35:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Of course he is, but he has long despised (7+ / 0-)

        McCain because he has gone against many fundamental Republican issues in the past.

        •  Conservative principals (5+ / 0-)

          I heard him say it on Friday.  Thrush says he is a conservative more than a rethug.  I just hope he goes down in flames and takes his sputtering sychophants with him.  Diitoheads, indeed.  Repeating the same pablum.

          "The Republicans have privatized the profits, but socialized the losses." - Nouriel Roubini on CNBC a few weeks ago (my paraphrase). H/T to moondancing.

          by donnamarie on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:44:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  There is no such thing as conservative principles (8+ / 0-)

            The last remaining vestiges went out the window 8 years ago.

            •  puzzled Republicans (4+ / 0-)

              But back at the Capitol, some Republicans were hard-pressed to say what, precisely, Mr. McCain had accomplished during his 24-hour stay. Representative Paul D. Ryan of Wisconsin, who is working with Mr. Cantor on the alternative bailout plan, said that he found Mr. McCain did more listening than talking when he met with him on Thursday.

              "He was in the information-gathering stage," Mr. Ryan said. Asked what role Mr. McCain was continuing to play, Mr. Ryan looked puzzled. "I think he’s debating," the congressman said. "Didn’t he go down to Mississippi?"

              The ol' boy network? In the McCain campaign, that's called a staff meeting.

              by Kitty on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:00:49 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Social Conservatives Are Finished Anyway! (0+ / 0-)

                Remember the real story of this election is whether white backlash over a black candidate would overwhelm Obama. Could enough fearful whites unite to prevent "the blacks from taking over."

                In 1996 the White vote was 83%.
                In 2000 the White vote was 81%.
                In 2004 the White vote was 77%.
                In 2008 the White vote is expected to be perhaps 73%.
                Whites as a percentage of voters is declining at about1% per year as America moves towards a minority-majority country by sometime around 2040.

                This is the last ride of the angry white men. They have their candidate in McCain, and he's losing and taking him down with them.

                This is the last ride of the Fundies too. They were the shock-troops of Bush in 2000 & 2004, but their agenda so alienated other non-Fundie Americans (especially younger more socially tolerant voters) that they gave the Republican party a bad image. The explosive decline of Sarah Palin is a prime example. She's beloved by the Fundie-right, but mocked by the rest of America. She represents everything we hate about Fundies, their intolerance, their ignorance, their disdain for opposing views, their incurious contempt for facts that might get in the way of their ideological purity, their self-righteousness, their pride in their own shortcomings.

                In 1968 the "solid South" broke away from the Democratic party over white resentment of the civil rights movement. In 1972, the Nixon coalition won in a landslide. Today virtually that same coalition is losing by perhaps 6%.

          •  "The Comedian" Won't Let Sarah Palin (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            defluxion10, ErinW43

            disappear. He's too in love with her. She may end up working for him or FAUX News; she seems to be right up their alley.

            "Hold back the edges of your gowns, Ladies, we are going through hell." William Carlos Williams' intro to "Howl"

            by CityLightsLover on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:00:24 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  What I don't get about Palin (5+ / 0-)
              If indeed she she been groomed since the mid 90s to be part of the next generation  of radical righties, as seems to be the case, and backed in her climb up the political ladder by them, as seems to be the case, why didn't they anticipate what she would need to know to make a credible impact on the national stage? Why didn't they start teaching her 10 years ago? This undermines the idea that the right is so diabolically clever when in fact they seem to have gained power mostly by bully-boy tactics that are now played out.

              But seriously -- she's only three years younger than Obama and has held elective office longer. If they were keeping her on ice for bigger things and if she were capable of learning what she needed to know to pull it off, why didn't she? You can learn a lot in a decade.

              We're retiring Steve LaTourette (R-Family Values for You But Not for Me) and sending Judge Bill O'Neill to Congress from Ohio-14: http://www.oneill08.com/

              by anastasia p on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:24:43 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I kinda doubt she was groomed (3+ / 0-)

                I'm increasingly a believer in the "sacrifice fly" theory of Palin.  They knew she was a moron, they knew McCain was a "say anything just win" Repug who couldn't rally the base.  They set these two up to flame out knowing Palin would always be too dumb for the national stage and McCain too old or dead the next time to get anything but the zombie/vampire lobby on board.

                I used to be more conservative and I knew people like Palin back in the 90s.  They could win local elections by appealing to culture war bullshit just like she did in the Wasilla mayoral campaign.  Vote for me as dogcatcher, I don't know shit about dogs but Jesus Saves and the gays are out to convert your kids to gayness!  People fell for it in the red areas every time.  To use geek-speak, this approach does not scale well.

                Then did he raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, saying, "Bless this, O Lord, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy."

                by Event Horizon on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 03:07:50 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  GOP helped her win Mayor` (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  CityLightsLover

                  As I understand it, she ran for Mayor on issues that are usually left out of mayoral races, like abortion. And she had help from the State GOP. Via Time:

                  In Stein's view, Palin's main transgression was injecting big-time politics into a small-town local race. "It was always a nonpartisan job," he says. "But with her, the state GOP came in and started affecting the race."

                  Either you are a feminist or a sexist/misogynist. There is no box marked `other'." -Ani DiFranco

                  by ErinW43 on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 03:16:35 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Well, what I meant (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    CityLightsLover

                    by groomed was "groomed for national office".  The state party got involved, sure.  That was a winning Repug strategy back then generally - ideology over competence but where's the evidence that anybody ever thought she was ready to be VP or President?

                    Then did he raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, saying, "Bless this, O Lord, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy."

                    by Event Horizon on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 03:21:45 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Not sure but (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Justice for All

                      there had to have been dialogue from the state level to the national level. Maybe, maybe not. Not sure if anyone thought she'd be VP this soon, but I would think that since the GOP has been helping her for awhile she'd be a little more "groomed" than she is coming off as!

                      Either you are a feminist or a sexist/misogynist. There is no box marked `other'." -Ani DiFranco

                      by ErinW43 on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 03:40:44 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

            •  She'd have to die her hair blonde to be on FOX (0+ / 0-)

              Either you are a feminist or a sexist/misogynist. There is no box marked `other'." -Ani DiFranco

              by ErinW43 on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 03:12:11 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Party unity and water carrying can only go (4+ / 0-)

          just so far.  Every one of those talking heads/comedians were totally against McCain before he got the nomination. I have a hard time believing that it was simply because he wasn't as conservative as they would like.


          The religious fanatics didn't buy the republican party because it was virtuous, they bought it because it was for sale

          by nupstateny on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:45:31 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  He IS conservative (3+ / 0-)

            He split w/ the GOP on campaign finance, immigration (which he backed out of, so does that even count?), and admitting that global warming is real.  But on their core issues -- deregulation of the economy and regulation of women -- he toes the party line.  Plus he lurves war.  Any war.

            The biggest reason they don't like him is because he's an asshole.  If he'd play the game, he'd win that Miss Congeniality title he's always talking about.

            Posted via wifi thanks to the innovation of John McCain.

            by tammanycall on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:27:02 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  McCain loves war (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              chrome327

              Didn't he suggest that we freeze all federal spending except that of the Military?

              It this this sort of thinking that leads to a hollowed-out society with a two-class structure: the upper class and the gun-fodder.

              An illusion can never be destroyed directly... SK.

              by Thomas Twinnings on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 05:34:42 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Rush himself has gone against what I (0+ / 0-)

          would term Goldwater Republicanism many times; the point is that Rush as a winger is likely to say anything to support any particular view at any particular time.  Oxy abuse, in addition to hearing loss, can also affect frontal cortex functioning which means the short term memory and higher reasoning functions malfunction.

          Anyone who has done drug counseling or dealt with a hard core druggie in real life will recognize the symptoms in Rush's rants. He has evidently fallen off the wagon.  

    •  When this election is over and the Dems (21+ / 0-)

      control the White House and have increased majorities in the House and Senate, the Republicans will turn on each other to point fingers and fight over the carcass that will be the Republican party.  The Club for Growth, the neocons, and the religious nuts will fight it out.  The few moderate forces remaining may just bail.  It will be very interesting.

      •  That is what my "R" husband here in CO (6+ / 0-)

        is waiting for.  He will vote Obama, unless something really stupid happens, like Palin becomes coherent.  But is is SO tired of the ideology of the Rethug platform that he refuses to vote for it.  He is biding his time in hopes that they will "see the error of their way"

      •  That is what you see with the Bail-out Plan. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CityLightsLover

        -- Corporatists: Club for Growth, all of Wall Street, the banks, the extraction industries.

        They want a blank checque.

        -- Conservatives: ordinary business, the religious country clubs (formerly churches), the A-Child-Is-Not-a-Choice anti-abortion Believers.

        They hate the Corporatists.

        -- Anybody sane.

        Ginnie Mae has a sensible system that can be applied, here. Lower grade bonds can be "insured" at some cost. Ratings are adjusted, without having capital disappear from usefulness for meeting COMPLIANCE MARGIN REQUIREMENTS.

        A pox on the Corporatists.

        CDS/CDO problems could be eliminated instantly by declaring these contracts VOID. Yep, declare them illegal. All of them. Similar to classes of contracts VOIDed during WW II, as one impact of the Truman Commission. Ponzi Scheme + RICO overtone problems.

        BTW: John "Songbird" McCain is irrelevant to all of the above.

        Once a snitch, always a snitch.

        "Songbird" got the nomination because none of the heavies wanted it this time around. Rudy-Huck-Mitt ??? Gotta be kidding..........

        Droogie is as Droogie does....

        by vets74 on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:53:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  vote at drudgereport on debate (0+ / 0-)

      Go to drudgereport.com - poll out on debate - McCain winning by a big margin -- 68% to 30% VOTE! pass this along

      If people will raise their voices and get involved, our government will become accountable!

      by tnsherrie on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:19:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I keep worrying this is a trap (17+ / 0-)

    And then McCain shoots himself in the foot (doesn't look at Obama during the debate)... and I feel better.

    SNL will be interesting tonight.

    Bush will be impeached.

    by jgkojak on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:34:32 PM PDT

    •  Naaa. (5+ / 0-)

      It's not a trap.
      What's happening is this:
      Nobody in Washington really knows how this whole bailout thing will play in Peoria, and the folks in Peoria don't know if the bailout is good or bad, and nobody anywhere knows what the hell's gonna happen on Monday morning.

      "Of course it hurts - you're getting screwed by an elephant"

      by sean oliver on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:54:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You are doggone perceptive, Sean (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sean oliver

        Moderation in all things-NOT

        by Julie Gulden on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:14:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  This is the point I have been making... (0+ / 0-)

        If there is time to worry about politics in Peoria or Paducah, there is more than enough time to reason out a sound policy that will not kneecap the next Presidency, and the nation.

        If the Pubbies see no urgency beyond their own iodeological blinkers, then my friends, how urgent is this mess anyway.

        We are all told this is urgent, needs action, and hear lots of "no one denies that there is an urgent problem" but if I don't see clamouring from both government and private institutions how urgent is it really?

        If Barney Frank and his committee are given time to sort this out, I am sure they will comeup with something good.

        But if it is a scam, this racket will be exposed for the hysteria I suspect that it is.  And the longer the Pubbies play ideological games, the more it looks that way.

        Is something wrong in the world of high finance?  Yes, it looks that way.  Will there be a depression by Monday?  I say not just no, but HELL NO.  

        Today, 9/26/08, 4173 Americans, and untold Iraqis are dead, tens of thousands more maimed. Bush lied, how soon before your family pays the price for that?

        by boilerman10 on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:18:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  They're clamoring all right! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          spookthesunset

          but if I don't see clamouring from both government and private institutions how urgent is it really?

          Have you been watching CNBC or following this thing? People are very worried that this could blow up very suddenly. As in near instantaneous worldwide economic meltdown serious.
          The actual effects might not hit you for awhile, but if banks stop loaning $...

          It might not happen, but then again...

          "Of course it hurts - you're getting screwed by an elephant"

          by sean oliver on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 03:59:01 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  There will be real consequences for everyone (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          spookthesunset

          if a deal is not made quite soon. There are many small businesses that will not be able to make payroll next week if there is not a loosening of credit. Then we'll see who's crying for a bail out. Quick!

          As if we could make things better without making them worse.

          by A Voice on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 04:17:55 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  McCain will end up voting for a bailout proposal (13+ / 0-)

    that will be very unpopular with the house GOP. The effect combined with the growing Palin implosion will be to drive down rethug turnout for McCain.

    "The fundamentals of my economy are strong" ...John McCain

    by polticoscott on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:35:02 PM PDT

  •  the US is on track to having a 3 party system n/t (6+ / 0-)

    Palin/McCain - "Thanks but NO Thanks!"

    by tpabob on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:35:53 PM PDT

  •  But he's against earmarks! And he's mavericky! (13+ / 0-)

    The knives are coming out.  The only reason Dole kept the party together throughout 1996 was intense Clinton hatred.  Intense Bush love - from about half the Republican base (the only people that still approve of him) - will doom this party.  McCain has said fuck the party, fuck consistency, I will eat a bug if you are willing to vote for me.

    And we get to watch two more of these??

  •  Irrenconcilable Differences (16+ / 0-)

    The different factions of the Republican party are almost in open warfare now. This is what a party in disarray really looks like, and it's not a handful of PUMAs carrying signs in a park.

    The weak in courage is strong in cunning-William Blake

    by beltane on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:37:47 PM PDT

  •  It's an important thing to watch. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DemFromCT, mathGuyNTulsa

    The question, nonetheless, comes up in stark terms. What happens to the Republican party when McCain loses? What happens when Bush is gone?

    It's the moment that will inspire their side's netroots to gain real momentum and power, as (I predict) the Cantor/Hensarling wing of their party attains real prominence.

  •  I'm glad the House Reps are paying Mac back. (7+ / 0-)

    This is the blowback for not winning "Ms. Congeniality". I'm also happy the House Republicans are aiding in attacking this bloated spending package.

    Evolution is an incremental project.

    by Common Cents on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:39:14 PM PDT

  •  He put himself right where he is. (6+ / 0-)

    He never gave a thought to the fact that many republicans are against the bail out, he never asked a question of them before he decided to look presidential again and swoop in to take credit for solving the problem.

    Last night he mentioned that the effort was bi-partisan and that politics was not an issue, yet he also stated that he went to Washington and only talked with republicans.


    The religious fanatics didn't buy the republican party because it was virtuous, they bought it because it was for sale

    by nupstateny on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:39:35 PM PDT

  •  Beer delivery vans don't drive themselves. (6+ / 0-)

    He'll be fine after the election.

    Russ Feingold: cooler than Batman.

    by yojimbo on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:39:49 PM PDT

  •  tying themselves in knots (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CityLightsLover

    to appear empathetic with Average Joe.  
    They can't be thinking of sharing the plan then?

    If we cannot elect this man, we don't deserve him.

    by lisastar on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:39:49 PM PDT

  •  All of the potential misery for the GOP (9+ / 0-)

    that you outline couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch.

  •  I would like to see McCain ask Ted Stevens for (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    filby, CityLightsLover

    his vote.

    John McCain: Maverick, POW and inventor of Blackberry.

    by organicdemocrat on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:40:10 PM PDT

  •  House Rs, let me explain it to you: (8+ / 0-)

    100 of you vote for this POS or it don't pass.  You ain't gonna go around for the next 30 years blaming the Ds for this dung heap that you left to the country.

    You have exactly 10 seconds to change that look of disgusting pity into one of enormous respect!

    by Cartoon Peril on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:41:01 PM PDT

    •  They'll blame the Dems anyway (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Julie Gulden, vets74

      same with Iraq, no matter what happens, the Rs will frame it as Democrats snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

      The framing has already begun. They don't need to wait for events to unfold.

      IMO the bailout is primarily designed to kick the can forward to Jan. 21, 2009, so the economy doesn't officially implode until the Dems are in power, and they get blamed both for the implosion and for the measures that will be required to extract ourselves from the resulting hole.

      •  They'll TRY to blame Dems, but (0+ / 0-)

        The repubs are officially in the doghouse and they know it.
        They might try to meekly blame the Dems for everything, but this time the evidence is too overwhelmingly against them and now the media are doing a (slightly) better job of calling them on their BS.

        "Of course it hurts - you're getting screwed by an elephant"

        by sean oliver on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:03:52 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  TOO LATE. The SHIA PEACE is already in place. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tammanycall, LRLine

        Virtually all of the religious miitias have aligned with the al-Maliki government.

        Iran brokered it, you might say through the Shia main religious leaders. Its more that the religious leaders ARE Iran, politically.

        Iran is like Italy's Papal States, back when.

        BTW: The Surge was useful. It beat down criminal gangs. Baghdad's versions of Crips and Bloods.

        That is all it did.

        Despite the daily lies from "Songbird."

        Droogie is as Droogie does....

        by vets74 on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:07:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Used to be Dems formed circular firing squads (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, stitchmd, jct, mathGuyNTulsa

    John McCain: Maverick, POW and inventor of Blackberry.

    by organicdemocrat on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:41:02 PM PDT

  •  Can someone explain to me what a SENATOR (12+ / 0-)

    is doing telling the HOUSE how to vote?

  •  McCain may still vote against the bailout, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jct, Taya Lawrence

    especially if the vote isn't close in favor. It would be another Hail Mary, hoisting his populist maverick standard over his steed, and trying to ride this to victory.

    He may now need this to distract from his own VP.

    Obama, now more than ever.

    by flitedocnm on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:42:08 PM PDT

  •  McCain fled the scene...too hot in the kitchen (10+ / 0-)

    McCain's political ploy backfired and made him look foolish, even the corporate media made that assessment. McCain fled DC before a plan was in place, McCain forced to appear on the debate, McCain kept his campaign going...all things he said he was not going to do.

    And now with the Palin wing of the party screaming about the Wall Street bailout that was the inevitable result of their political unregulated ideology, McCain will be forced to vote for the bailout compromise that Congress and White House come up with.

    It would be great fun if Palin blurts out that she's opposed to the bailout deal.

  •  A house divided against itself cannot stand! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, hhex65, lisastar

    I am looking forward to the implosion.

    Peace

    John MCCAIN: No mind, no morals, no integrity, certainly no honor, a hollow shell, a husk of what used to be a maverick.

    by bglv on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:43:19 PM PDT

  •  The neocons will win this fight. Count on it. (4+ / 0-)

    They will take control of the republican party after the election defeat.

    The argument will be that they chose a moderate (their interpretation) and got walloped. So the answer must be to move further to the right.

    A third party is also possible.

    Splitting the GOP would be a dream come true for Dems. Majorities for dacades would be the result. And a progressive agenda could be implemented across the board.

  •  Anyone seen Alaskan Mother.Maverick.Moosehunter? (3+ / 0-)

    John McCain: Maverick, POW and inventor of Blackberry.

    by organicdemocrat on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:44:46 PM PDT

  •  FRAME: The Grumpy McSame Bailout (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CityLightsLover

    Know it, Breathe it, LIVE IT

    •  Make it the Bush/McCain Bailout of the rich. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      phonegery, CityLightsLover

      Dems are better off opposing this bailout. No guarantee it will work financially. Every reason to believe it will be hugely unpopular.

      John McCain: Maverick, POW and inventor of Blackberry.

      by organicdemocrat on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:47:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It may come to that (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        spookthesunset

        but 70%+ of Americans want some kind of "bailout" plan to keep investment banks from failing.
        The Dem plan is not a "bailout", either. It's sounds good to say "No bailout for the rich" but that's not what this is, and it's not the rich who will suffer if the economy tanks, it'll be the middle and lower classes.

        "Of course it hurts - you're getting screwed by an elephant"

        by sean oliver on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:15:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I'm not so sure... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, stitchmd, mathGuyNTulsa

    there may be a GOP civil war for a few months, perhaps even over a few years as the factions try to reasert themselves, but let's remember one crucial aspect: the Republicans SUCK at governing, they simply can't do it--they have always performed better as an opposition party in Congress than as the governing majority party. They thrive as an opposition party, and no it will not matter that they have been expanding government to the biggest since FDR, they will claim with a straight face to be "fiscally responsible" and we're back to 1994 all over again.

    OBviously it all depends on how Obama would perform as president, but let's not underestimate the GOP in opposition. Remember how everyone claimed the Dems were doomed forever after the 2004 loss...look how things changed.

    "People place their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution. They don't put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible." --J.R.

    by michael1104 on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:45:29 PM PDT

  •  Says a lot about House Republicans (8+ / 0-)

    When they're being guided by a SENATOR who is the single-most uninformed and least knowledgeable politician in the country when it comes to the issue being discussed/fought over ; the US economy ............

  •  Spending freeze? (7+ / 0-)

    I really was disappointed in Obama's response to McCain's idea.  He should have responded by asking McCain something like this:  

    Are you willing to kick several thousand youngsters off Head Start?  Are you willing to make the value of Pell Grants constant as college costs rise?  How many seniors are you willing to kick off Meals on Wheels?  That is what a spending freeze means, folks.

  •  Can McCain be made to vote first? (5+ / 0-)

    Can the dems control in any way the order of the voting on this bill? I don't trust McCain one bit.......

    •  M comes before O (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      housesella, vets74, CityLightsLover

      just saying.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:53:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Absolutely. He can blindside us yet again. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CityLightsLover, Taya Lawrence

      John McCain: Maverick, POW and inventor of Blackberry.

      by organicdemocrat on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:53:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  No but it may not matter (5+ / 0-)

      Pelosi and Reid have made it quite clear that they're not going to put anything up for a vote until they know they have a substantial majority of the Republicans on board, so they don't get caught with a "Democratic plan" to defend later.

      If McCain bothers to show up, it won't matter how he votes.
      Voting for the plan = bipartisan, reasonable, but blows his maverick claim and alienates the right-wingers.
      Voting against = maverick and conservative base move, blows his claims of reaching across the aisle and getting things done.

      It's clear McCain is not in a position to exercise any leadership among Repubs, either Senate or House. That in itself is a useful take-away from this whole melodrama.

      •  not to mention that voting against it (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CityLightsLover, chrome327

        makes it appear that he's willing to risk U.S. economic collapse. I'm not sure about the reality of this crisis but there are enough people who know more than me who seem to think its necessary to avoid a worse situation. If he votes against it, his only justification would have to be "It hurts taxpayers". Especially if he doesnt have his own plan that any credible economist says would work.

        And teh problem is, once the bailout is approved we'll never know if it was really necessary and so his argument is unprovable.

  •  "Sen. McCain, have you thought out this spending (6+ / 0-)

    freeze, or are you just offering it off the top of your head here at the debate?"

    That's the question I wish Jim Lehrer had asked.

    My guess is he was just throwing it out there. Which would fit McCain's pattern of recklessness.

    We need a steady hand on the wheel of state, not somebody who just throws stuff out there and sees what sticks.

    Interestingness.org "Politics is the entertainment arm of Industry." - Zappa

    by CheeseMoose on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:49:10 PM PDT

  •  Timothy McVeigh. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CityLightsLover

    Sorry.

  •  Try this , old geezer (6+ / 0-)

    MCCAIN: How about a spending freeze on everything but defense, veteran affairs and entitlement programs.

    How about a spending freeze being placed on all elected officials/representatives until you all start doing a credible job ?

  •  spending freeze (4+ / 0-)

    I liked that part of the debate. I thought McCain came across as throwing out another gimmick and Obama had thought it through, was knowledgeable and ready to respond.

    McCain says "spending freeze" 'cause it sounds all mavericky and reformy, but he has not even thought about what that really means, what the ramifications would be. So, Obama explains it to him.

    •  This was so IT. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      vets74, chrome327

      It was the timing of the bailout package proposal that was key here. This credit crisis has been worsening for two years. I've posted elsewhere on the mechanics of the credit market and the issues of Main Street. Obama gets the sub-prime mortgage problem. He will not let Poulson reward crooks.

      Lehmann went down when it did because it was advised to do so (not saying by whom, but I have a really good idea). Poulson presented his proposal almost as an antagonist after the fact. The Dems were right to pick up on the section 8 clause and question. They were counting on this. Why? Because McCain needed to be savior. Playing the Hero is his hidden agenda.

      This cartoon says it all.

      What is the foundation of *your* client relationship to Planet Earth?

      by LRLine on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:19:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  'Cain also wants to take credit for The Surge. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LRLine

        -- and credit for the SHIA PEACE (if he knew it existed)

        -- and credit for Carol raising Doug, Andy and Sidney quite well without him

        -- and credit for getting Gore to invent the Internet

        -- and credit for the Reagan Revolution

        -- and credit for winning Vietnam (for the Vietnamese as agent/snitch "Songbird")

        Droogie is as Droogie does....

        by vets74 on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:31:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  when I look at McCain (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          vets74

          I feel like I'm looking into a slo-mo camera. He's moving at some different rate of speed from my world. In fact, he's gone to plaid. <- spaceballs.</p>

          It's as if he doesn't truly realize that everyone could see exactly what he's doing until he's sprung it on them like some great surprise, when in fact, he's several news cycles behind. That's the out of sync quality I think KO was picking up on ...If McCain owned his links like Obama does, he'd know it. But he doesn't. In fact, the concept that every word or action he does can be and is being checked at every move probably hasn't even hit home.

          He's trying to run scrambles, but like Fineman said the other night, it's always always fourth and long.

          What is the foundation of *your* client relationship to Planet Earth?

          by LRLine on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:40:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Free Anti-McCain Poster for You Guys (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CityLightsLover

    Hey Guys,

    Steal and email these images.

    www.rabblerouzer.com

    Let's Go Guys!!!

    -Mad Dog
    "I'll Fight Cheney"

    Hey DailyKos use these posters

  •  my plan to infuse 300billion into housing mkt. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    captainlaser

    As a retiree with an IRA loosing its Capital and no income generated these past few months ,I wish us babyboomers with IRA's could use it to buy real estate as income diversification instead of all that Paper . Currently the rules to do that are way too restrictive. Example,if you can figure out how to buy a house with your IRA savings ,you cant rent it to family members. And on and on as to make it too dificult.WELL,suppose we alter the rules making it easier.Say one million retirees decide to buy houses @between 200K and 400K ,thats a cool $300+biln.Everybody wins,houses get sold bringing much needed life into the market and the credit crunch dosnt matter to this group as they are cash buyers!

    •  I'm sure that there are people ahead of you. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      eddienic

      At best though, you would get very high risk overpriced homes.  The homes that are close to value left on mortgage will be kept by the finance companies and they will be encouraging second mortgages.

      I'd never put money into a second mortgage in this economy, though.

      I think that Fannie and Freddie should be doing exactly this.  You could then invest in Fannie and Freddie and be doing some good.

      I suppose if you have enough in your IRA to buy a home outright without taking back a mortgage, that would not be a bad investment in this market.  Lots of bargains out there.

      John McCain's vision: Having your own steamgrate to sleep on between shifts on your two jobs.

      by captainlaser on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:58:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Okay kids, who thinks McSame will replace Sarah? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CityLightsLover

    Does he dump the hump or ride the wave to the shore?

    I think he'll be the first rat off USS Mooseburger and on to Romney or Ridge.

    What say you Kossacks?

    Sarah Palin is just another Karl Rove in lipstick and stilettos.

    by uc booker on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:52:43 PM PDT

    •  No chance of that. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      esquimaux, duha, filby, CityLightsLover

      It would be a bigger flip flop than Eagleton pulling out on McGovern and look where that left him.

      They more likely to switch the ticket and put Sarah on top.  I'm sure she'd like it there.

      John McCain's vision: Having your own steamgrate to sleep on between shifts on your two jobs.

      by captainlaser on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:59:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  New Rolling Stone Article about Palin: (6+ / 0-)

        by Matt Taibbi, worth checking out. To whet your appetite:

        Right-wingers of the Bush-Rove ilk have had a tough time finding a human face to put on their failed, inhuman, mean-as-hell policies. But it was hard not to recognize the genius of wedding that faltering brand of institutionalized greed to the image of the suburban American supermom. It’s the perfect cover, for there is almost nothing in the world meaner than this species of provincial tyrant.

        http://brightideasgroupblog.blogspot...

        Pit bulls are intelligent, perceptive, funny, loyal, clever animals. I had a pit bull as my best friend... Ms. Palin, you are no pit bull.

        by grover on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:11:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It is, indeed, a great article... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MaineMike, nolakohler

          and points to what we already know:  she isn't qualified, much of the the public doesn't care and worse they cannot even begin to grasp that fact, and why so many were dumbstruck by her rise as a VP candidate.

          As one that has little to no respect for US voters (and I am one), our true colors show through when, en mass, we Messiahize any politician as though we were Beatle fans at their premier Ed Sullivan performance.

          But here we are.

          And while her numbers plummet, in the face of her brilliantly crafted speech at the GOP convention, and after two disastrous interviews (the last with Couric far worse than the former with Gibson), are we still wondering why she can even attract an audience?

          The American public that so blandly followed Bush into a war--including some today that can still defend his lies--is stupid.  Face it.  The collective "we" are still trying to pound square pegs into round holes, the economy and world be damned.

          Most certainly not a hockey mom

          by cany on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:24:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I can't even read critical articles about her (0+ / 0-)

          I tore the cover off my Time Mag a week ago.

          She is so irrelevant, she will make Andy Warhol's 15 minutes of Fame quote look prescient.

          She is the VP to Nowhere.

          John McCain's vision: Having your own steamgrate to sleep on between shifts on your two jobs.

          by captainlaser on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 03:18:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Replacement seems insane... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        captainlaser, filby

        ...but "insane" is what came to mind when McCain announced Palin as his VP pick.

        Here's what I'd like to know:  how many think that Palin will be a no-show for the Biden debate?

        The Palin/McCain ticket wouldn't be prudent at this juncture.

        by MaineMike on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:18:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Do you think Russia will invade Alaska so she can (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MaineMike

          bail on the debate?  

          I would not be surprised if she used something like the mongoloid taking ill to get out of the debate.  I saw her Katie Couric interview and Joe would eat her as an afternoon snack, not even a meal she has so little substance.

          Sarah Palin is just another Karl Rove in lipstick and stilettos.

          by uc booker on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:21:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  PS, did anyone check to see if the Canadian Army (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DemFromCT, filby

            is massing at the border?

            Massing means a car with more than four guys in it.

            Ok, ok, back off. Back off.  I'm Canadian.  It's a joke.

            John McCain's vision: Having your own steamgrate to sleep on between shifts on your two jobs.

            by captainlaser on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 03:22:32 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  She will show up but she won't be able to keep (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          filby

          her mouth shut when she is being criticized.  She will go ballistic, try to look tough, and be a disaster.

          It will be hard for Biden not to look like he is lecturing her.  He should aim all his attacks at McCain and actually ignore her.  She is irrelevant to this campaign.  Except if John McCain's malignancy rears up again.

          John McCain's vision: Having your own steamgrate to sleep on between shifts on your two jobs.

          by captainlaser on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 03:21:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  not gonna happen! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      esquimaux, duha, CityLightsLover

      Most certainly not a hockey mom

      by cany on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:05:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  No F*ckin' Way. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Over the Edge, esquimaux

      The "conservative" GOP "comedian" Sean Hannity wannabes will revolt. McCentury can't handle that much bad publicity.

      "Hold back the edges of your gowns, Ladies, we are going through hell." William Carlos Williams' intro to "Howl"

      by CityLightsLover on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:09:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Democrats epic fail... again.. (0+ / 0-)

    The media cycle is being controlled by the house republicans.

    Who exactly is running the Congress? I thought it was the democrats, but you'd never know it from the media coverage, and this time it is not the media's fault.

    Pelosi/Ried have let the republicans take over the framing of this situation and are doing an escellent job selling the impression it is the republicans in congress who are the adults, looking out for the workin man, against those thieving scheming leeeburals and that shameful Bush guy.

    It's pathetic, almost as pathetic as the democrats mindless pursuit of some bailout plan, without any connection to reality and what is actually behind the crisis... the Credit Default Swaps and the $62 TRILLION liability they represent.

    An amount of money that noone in the US can ever pay. the net worth of all US homes is estimated at only $54 TRILLION.

    CEO pay, equity, etc is all pointless bullshit. The Congress must declare Credit Default Swaps illegal, they are "unconscienable" contracts and therefore NULL+VOID. Instantly 99% of the economic crisis is over, poof.

    Then Congress can concern itself with how to bail out the MORTGAGEE's of all the subprime mortgages, to keep people in thier homes, and all the rest of our homes values from spiraling into oblivion.

    We are looking at the potential for 10-20 MILLION HOMELESS.... where exactly do yoou think those foreclosed evicted people go? magically into a new home with w new mortgage? No, on the street, thier parents house, some other relative, friends, all temporary... or, just plain on the street.

    What happens to the empty houses? Stripped, decay, squatters, depressing the neighborhood in a dominoe effect of all dominoe effects, undermining the entire nation.

    Pelosi and Reid MUST be removed, we need REAL leadership, and they seriously suck. Peter principle gone wild.

    I "feel" like Sarah Palin is wearing a Pelosi suit, and this is what would come of it.... seriuously what the fuck are these two fools thinking?

    •  This one is such an explosive issue it might make (5+ / 0-)

      sense to let them have it. The bailout deal will be hugely unpopular. With good reason. I say let the Repubs, Bush and McCain take the blame for it. It is unlikely to work financially.

      John McCain: Maverick, POW and inventor of Blackberry.

      by organicdemocrat on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:56:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The House GOPper ideas are sound. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        spookthesunset, The Jester

        Ginnie Mae version of insurance and getting funds in use for Margin Requirements.

        Minimal to no bail-out.

        Just because its from business people, its not always bad.

        Corporatists..... oh, yeah. Satanic sell-outs.

        Cheney. Paulson. That stench..............

        Droogie is as Droogie does....

        by vets74 on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:38:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think we all agree some of the points... (0+ / 0-)

          are quite valid, and its to our shame that it is Republican rank-n-file making the suggestions.

          But the point I was trying to make is, the giant pink elephant shaped BLACKHOLE in the room is the Credit Default Swaps, which congress is so far not even addressing or acknowledging...even though they are what put the CRISIS in the crisis.

          It doesn't matter what insurance is instituted, or what bailout money is given, or equity positions established, or CEO pay cuts assured.... the giant $62 TRILLION BLACKHOLE will suck every dime into oblivion and leave us right where we are now, still utterly screwed.

          Congress and the Bush are trying to deal with the CDS's one step removed.... IF they can fix the mortgages and such, they can un-trigger the triggers of the CDS's and simply not owe the $62 TRILLION that way. That is NOT going to work, it's literally like tossing a nuke into a real BLACKHOLE to try and "blow it out" ;-)

          Blackhole: "Burp, thank you sir may I have another."

          •  We have filed example text for VOIDING CDS/CDOs. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            The Jester

            The Federal Government can do this.

            Seminal precedent goes to WW II and the Truman Commission. Whole classes of contracts can be wiped out.

            End of CDS/CDO crisis.

            BTW: something similar happened back in the 1970s... when the futures market for silver changed its rules overnight.

            Works like a charm.

            Droogie is as Droogie does....

            by vets74 on Sun Sep 28, 2008 at 07:34:18 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Nancy Pelosi seems sold on the bailout (0+ / 0-)

        But she has always been in the bag with the rich.

        An illusion can never be destroyed directly... SK.

        by Thomas Twinnings on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 06:28:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  house Rs are not controlling a thing (11+ / 0-)

      alas, these are real problems for real people.

      Rants aside, the GOP dropped a dozen eggs on the kitchen floor, and bitching about how the clean-up is going misses the point entirely.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:57:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  wow there's an adult in the room n/t (0+ / 0-)

        "No way, no how, no Palin war with Russia." --KariQ

        by andrewj54 on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:10:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  The dozen eggs (0+ / 0-)

        "Rants aside, the GOP dropped a dozen eggs on the kitchen floor, and bitching about how the clean-up is going misses the point entirely."

        But is installing an infloor heating system [on a GFIC circuit though] the best way to clean it up?  Sure you get some protein in the short term, but we're way past the 3 sec rule and there are no bagels or toast... or do we expect those to be tossed down too to take advantage of the new infloor toaster?

        •  truth is (0+ / 0-)

          like in iraq there is no good and easy way. The risk of market plunge is real, and that hurts small business, who cannot get loans.

          OTOH, here is the definition of obscene.

          Fishman was the new chief executive officer for Washingon Mutual — WaMu — the nation's largest savings and loan, which was taken over Thursday night by federal bank regulators and quickly dumped in a fire sale to JPMorgan Chase for the Wal-Mart-like price of $1.9 billion.

          But don't cry for Fishman, who reportedly was sky-high — literally — last night, on a flight from New York to Seattle, when WaMu collapsed. Even though he's only been on the job for less than three weeks, he's bailing out with parachute worth close to $20 million, according to an executive compensation analysis conducted for the New York Times by James F. Reda Associates.

          That's right, $20 million for 17 days on the job ... and his company failed.

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:49:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Of course... (0+ / 0-)

            The risk is real, and there is no good and easy way, but that doesn't mean 'quick' adds to its betterness.  The D's should own the high ground on this but further capitulation for expediency sake bode [still] not well.  Sure the juggernaut reacts slowly, like Sen Russ taking almost 2 years to set a how to make government more honest [or is it less corrupt?] panel [btw I do like him].  The D's still seem to have a large nose ring in place and like to be pulled 'off the table' by it.

            And yes, a ~million a day is obscene, as was the selling price for WaMu, and I believe the bailout will effectively deal with neither issue, except perhaps going forward for those that seek funds, but that stone is not writ yet and may not come with out flaws.

      •  Yes WE know they aren't, but.... (0+ / 0-)

        ... to the low information voters watching the TeeeVeee it "looks" like they are giving the Dems the comeupance and taking charge, and will be perceived as the saviors, rather than the actual people working hard to achieve something  useful.

        Congress needs a friggin PR firm I guess, at least the DEM leadership does. They really don't know how to orchestrate the appearence of accomplishment, to go along with the actual accomplishment.

        Not that I want ANY bailout at all, and I'm sitting here hoping the whole thing tanks, so they all have time to actually figure out whats going on.

        When the Used Car salesman is telling you that you NEED to buy now, right now.... you are getting FUCKED, trust me.

    •  Time for Hillary to step up and be made (4+ / 0-)

      Majority Leader.   She could deliver votes that Harry Reid can't and she can mobilize people.

      John McCain's vision: Having your own steamgrate to sleep on between shifts on your two jobs.

      by captainlaser on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:00:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Excellent analysis but.. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Jester

      It doesn't matter all these fools are owned by Wall st., so in the end they're going to give them whatever it is they want with some minor window dressing for the benefit of the few Congress critters paying attention to the details. In the end they all will sign on and then BV$H will sign it and within the same hr. issue one of his infamous signing statements nullifying any provisions in it Wall st. doesn't like. The media will report this and nobody will do a thing friggin thing, end of crisis. Move along folks there's nothing too see here. On to the next train wreck!

      "It's better to die on your feet then live on your knees" E. Zapata

      by Blutodog on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:01:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thankyou, I agree, it's bad news for us. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Blutodog

        You are right, the hilarious thing is, since they never fought the battle of "signing statement", the idiot can just nullify any and all good works the Democrats might get included in a bailout.

        Nice to know all the days of work scrambling to solve a crisis can be wiped away in a few seconds from the pet monkey with a pen.

        •  They know this (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          The Jester

          Look Reid and Pelosi aren't total idiots. They know BV$H is just going to sign away any deal they make.  So we can only conclude all of this noise is for our ( the publics) benefit. They can basically have it both ways. When asked if they tried to limit the robbery they can pt. to the deal they worked out and then in disgust blame the BV$Hiviks for basically having no word or honor. In reality the dirty little secret is both sides are just playing  an elaborate kabuki dance they've done over and over again and the media plays along as well. In the end the media which is also owned by the same crowd just gets everyone moving along to the next disaster installment in this long running version of Naomi Klein's "Shock Doctrine" epic. Cynical am I? The proof is in the pudding if you look close enough.

          "It's better to die on your feet then live on your knees" E. Zapata

          by Blutodog on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 04:49:56 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  "unconscionable" n/t (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Jester

      "No way, no how, no Palin war with Russia." --KariQ

      by andrewj54 on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:09:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sorry, I was typing fast ;-) (0+ / 0-)

        But it is the correct LEGAL method to scuttle the Credit Default Swaps, there isn't a court in the country that won't toss them eventually as the stockholder lawsuits for Lehman et al, get filed and move through the courts.

        Any judge gets his/her hands on one of these things, and it's gonna be an ugly schooling in Law School Contracts 101.

  •  I think that what we will see is something akin to (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DemFromCT, LRLine
    a new Newt Gingrich-type movement in the GOP with the same absurd neo con, free market, privatization rhetoric on economics.

    The dems will face four very hard and painful  years ahead of them, and I sure don't envy Barach.

    However, it would appear we will at least have a dem house and senate.  Perhaps we actually will be able to get something done--the reason the congressional elections are SO important.

    During this period, the GOP will reframe themselves, re-deliver in new wrapping all the old ideas that, given the pain of the next four years, will be accepted by the public as "new" and different and ultimately be determined to be the way out of this mess.

    I have little if any faith in the American public, sorry about that.

    I believe most Americans don't understand the problem, let alone it's root (foreign policy and economics).  If John McCain didn't believe this, too, he would not have  mentioned Ronald Reagan at least four times in the debate.

    This shredding of the GOP will bring back something more dangerous for us all.  Not looking forward to it, actually.

     

    Most certainly not a hockey mom

    by cany on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:55:04 PM PDT

  •  GOP- grasping of parasites (0+ / 0-)

    The Republican conservative principles are guidelines only for how parasites can profitably exploit a healthy financial environment.  

    Once they don't have a playbook for what happens after they have made the host organism sick.

    "So much time and so little to do. Wait a minute. Strike that. Reverse it."- Willie Wonka

    by crystal eyes on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:55:09 PM PDT

  •  Re: Spending freeze, nice diary slipped early (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OLinda, dworth

    alkalinesky is on it

    Check it out.

    The White House will be The People's House--B.Obama

    by Phil S 33 on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:55:33 PM PDT

  •  Sure? What kind of an answer is that? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OLinda, esquimaux, chrome327

    Just like that he's going to vote for it? Without even knowing what's in it yet? (as Obama pointed out). This was a really weird part of the debate that got lost in all the other stuff but it's worthy of attention.

  •  The one thing I love about Republicans, (9+ / 0-)

    and it is the only thing, is that every single time the American people reject their far right agenda, their response is to say "we need to move even further to the right.
    But I do hope their defeat in November is so massive that it spurs a knock-down, dragged-out fight for the party's future.
    It's always been remarkable to me what a fractured party the GOP is, and yet how strongly they pull together at election time.
    The religious nuts despise the free-traders, because the free-traders want to deal with China, a godless, dictatorial regime with enforced abortions.
    The free-traders despise the religious nuts because they just loves them that cheap labor.
    The libertarians don't want to pay any taxes, but they hate the way the evangelicals want to confiscate their porn.
    The GOP cannot win national elections without the so-called religious right, yet those folks have finally awoken to the fact that they've been played for suckers now for over thirty years.
    Frankly, I hope it's a bloodbath over on their side.

    That's the problem with elephants....they're entertaining for a little while, but they leave such a huge pile of shit to clean up after they're gone.

    by jazzmaniac on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 01:58:43 PM PDT

  •  McCain made a HUGE mistake... one of many. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    defluxion10, esquimaux, vets74

    But now he's got himself in an impossible situation.

    1. To appease his voters, he has to kill the bill.
    1. To appease moderates and independents, he has to appear as a bipartisan Senator who can get things accomplished.

    These two realities are in contradiction to each other.

    Unless  he is able to create a whole new bill of his own and get it past Bush, his caucus, and the Democratic majority...

    he has set himself up to fail... and fail bigtime.

    Dumb politics... putting his politics and personal ambition over the health of our economy. Because now whatever he does, he's not putting country first. As usual, he's putting John McCain first.

  •  So Dem where do you think McCain will be on (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LRLine

    an H5N1 epidemic?

    I ask my friends in the private sector to help us get out of this mess.

    John McCain's vision: Having your own steamgrate to sleep on between shifts on your two jobs.

    by captainlaser on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:02:25 PM PDT

  •  Supply Side is dead. 1st stage of grief - denial. (5+ / 0-)

    The House Republicans and other Supply Side die-hards will go through the several stages of greiving after the demise of their beloved Supply Side Economics which has been proven not only wrong but dangerous.  

    Preservation of our economic system and avoiding a depression are strong incentives for those who actually undrstand economics to confront non-believers.  

    Supply Siders will become as irrelevant as Creationists.

    Bush to House Republicans, "You actually believed that Supply Side crap??"

  •  If McCain loses, the GOP faces a day of reckoning (0+ / 0-)

    They'll have to take a hard and realistic look and figure out what went wrong.

    If McCain wins, they can continue in la-la land a little while longer.

    I'm praying for the former option, though my primary goal is not the long term reform of the GOP, which I believe will be a very partial success at best. There's too much bile and sleeze in the mix for it to all boil off.

    •  we already know what went wrong and it (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      chrome327

      was the choice of McCain.

      I don't believe that is the matter at all.

      They will look at what happened in their primary choice and make sure it doesn't happen again.  They did a lousy job and had lousy candidates.

      They know McCain didn't have the support of their base... enter Palin.  That won't happen again, either.

      They are great at getting unqualified people elected, as we know all too well.

      They will stand on the same ground, or move farther right (is that possible?!) but they are NOT moving an inch to the middle.  That is not what the brains in the party, controlled by neo cons, do.  They CANNOT move to the center.  

      Most certainly not a hockey mom

      by cany on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:35:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Read "Wall Street To GOP: Drop Dead" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Thomas Twinnings, orca43

    James Pethokoukis via Andrew Sullivan:

    "Economic conservatives may be horrified at the thought of a trillion-dollar bailout of Wall Street, but the GOPers on Wall Street seem horrified that they are being left to wither on the vine by Washington. Take a look at this email I just got last night from a money manager:"

    Read on:

       http://www.usnews.com/...

    I see this as a chance for the Democratic Party, but I'm not sure others will agree.

    Trying to make the libertarian Democrat a reality

    by Don the swing voter on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:10:59 PM PDT

  •  Masters of the Universe quaking in their boots? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Brooke In Seattle, profh, LRLine

    I am a lifelong ( 51 years old) "rock-ribbed" conservative.... What an eye opener this week has been! I now realize what a blowhard Newt truly is by advocating the GOP bail on the Paulson Plan. As a professional money manager I can tell you I am shocked, dismayed and depressed that the Speaker would excoriate the GOP to abandon this plan which is URGENT and necessary to avoid a financial catastrophe that once commenced may be irreversible. The level of ignorance of financial and economic reality displayed by the Speaker , Rep. Boehner, Sen. Shelby , et al, has been frightening and sad. I thought the GOP had a better grasp of such matters than the Dems. Apparently not. And if this has been pure election gamesmanship as I suspect? The willingness to play politics with the U.S. financial markets is appalling and disgusting.

    USNews

    It is people like this guy who got us into this mess. And now we are supposed to listen to these `experts' to tell us what is good for us?

    Don't bail out the banks. Bail out the homeowner. Ban trading of financial instruments like mortgages that have an implicit Federal Guarantee. If you sell a loan, you have to be responsible for collecting it.

    We will survive this crisis. Before it  is over there will be a lot fewer money managers. And that is not a bad thing. And if they stop funding the GOP, even better. Sometimes a fever must be allowed to run its course.

    John McCain: Maverick, POW and inventor of Blackberry.

    by organicdemocrat on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:18:36 PM PDT

    •  I so agree with you organicdemocrat (0+ / 0-)

      Don't bail out the banks. Bail out the homeowner.

      That should be a bumpersticker.

      What is the foundation of *your* client relationship to Planet Earth?

      by LRLine on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:25:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Fed Govt. can buy part of houses. Give people (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LRLine

        time to pay off their mortgages. Then they get to buy back the part the Govt owns . Truth is, most people want to stay in their homes. Govt can help them and also help the economy.

        If you bail out the banks you are rewarding people like this money manager who, with his support of the GOP, created this crisis.

        John McCain: Maverick, POW and inventor of Blackberry.

        by organicdemocrat on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:29:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  If House Republicans don't get on board with this (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Anarchofascist

    neither should Dems, and let the cards fall where they may, even if the worse happens.  Sorry, it's time someone called these a-holes on their juvenile tactics and if their constituents continue to support them, there's nothing the rest of us can do.

    •  Make McCain sell the Dem plan to the wingers. (0+ / 0-)

      If he can't don't let it pass. Now he owns the rescue plan, after all his  antics of last week.

      And then deny him credit by pointing out it was our plan all along. This is a no-win situation for McCain. If the plan fails it is his responsibility. If it passes, he will be blamed by the GOP wingnuts for making them vote on it.  And he will not get any clear credit for it. Just don't give an inch to his demands. He needs this more than anybody else now.

      John McCain: Maverick, POW and inventor of Blackberry.

      by organicdemocrat on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:26:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  sounds like they aren't leaving in January. (0+ / 0-)

    people have a wrong idea of what constitutes true happiness. It is not attained through self-gratification, but...fidelity to a worthy purpose.Helen Keller

    by dosaybe on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:28:33 PM PDT

  •  What Created The Party (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    spookthesunset

    The Republican party of the 90's was created by a combination of credible external threat (Soviet Union), new plausible economic theory (supply-side economics), and Democratic over-reaching on social issues.

    There is no credible external threat (sure Islamic extremism is a fact, but not a real threat to our country the way the Soviets were).  Supply-side economics are a demonstrable failure, at least for the US.  Supply-side economics have arguably benefitted the world economy greatly, but that benefit has only accrued outside the US.  Inside the US, we are impoverished.

    If the Democrats can avoid going hog-wild with social issues and asserting supposedly God-given rights (the "right" to health-care...danger!), the Republican party will diminish into a long-term opposition party

  •  Oh, geez (0+ / 0-)

    ...and I cannot imagine this is all going to go down well for any of them when this is over

    what a cryin' assed shame. Quickly, Snively, more fuel for the fire.

    What we are all waiting for is for Mr. McCain to get his unbalanced butt back to Arizona and disappear...hopefully.

    Common Sense is not Common

    by RustyBrown on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 03:01:06 PM PDT

  •  House Repubs represent folks who... (0+ / 0-)

    ...are just supposed to vote and not actually demand a voice. See Mike Huckabee. He stole serious votes from the other finance Wall Street minded Repubs (Mitt) and it showed the major problem in the GOP: Their voters do not benefit from the GOP platform. There is only a small percentage of people who make the gobs and gobs of $$ who benefit from trickle-down economics and the low corporate and investment tax breaks.

    If a GOP-er ever came along and promised small government but bigger taxes on the wealthy while also staying conservative socially, they would be a force to be reckoned with come voting day. However, they would have no money to campaign with b.c. the business and rich folks would not be donating...

    Sum: GOP in serious trouble and on the brink of an identity crisis.

    Either you are a feminist or a sexist/misogynist. There is no box marked `other'." -Ani DiFranco

    by ErinW43 on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 03:06:25 PM PDT

  •  McCain's ONLY chance in November = oppose bailout (0+ / 0-)

    Barring some unforseen crisis like another terrorist attack (which even today would probably be a tossup as to its political effect), McCain has one and only one chance at changing the race: oppose whatever bailout plan the Congress comes up with. That was what I was most afraid of Friday, that there would be an unpopular plan the Congressional leadership and Bush supported, and McCain would come out against it while Obama came out in favor of it.

    Assuming action is necessary, I hope Congress comes up with a better plan, but regardless of what they do, they'd better hold the Congresional Republicans' feet to the fire and only vote it as part of a bipartisan deal. Maybe I'm just easily scared, but if somehow McCain manages to weasel out and vote against (or not be there), should Obama do the same?

  •  It may take more than one generation for Repubs.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    scrutinizer

    We have seen a pattern among repubs to continue to follow ideology over facts and reason, so I don't expect an instant change after the election. The first reaction will be that "we weren't wingnutty ENOUGH". The next will be to continue follow a program of obstructionism in congress, in order to create a myth of a "do-nothing" congress.

    The ranks of young repubs are filled with regent university types or graduates from other christian "madrasses" who have been fully indoctrinated in extremist views. It may take more than one electoral spanking  to allow adults to take over.

    This might change if Obama wins a landslide, but I don't see that happening. It seemed possible earlier in the year to have a true realignment election, but, either we overestimated that possibility or the repubs have succeeded enough in their campaign of personal destruction to make it impossible for now.

    Tom Daschle: "John McCain has George Bush policies, a Karl Rove campaign, and a Dick Cheney attitude".

    by Azdak on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 03:58:11 PM PDT

  •  The Neocons are in a weakened position (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    spookthesunset

    due to the reckless and lawless manner in which the Bush administration has handled the country.  It is not the Republican virtues that are tarnished, but the Neocon ideology.

    The problem is that there are a great number of Republicans who have signed on to the Neocon ideology.  This is driven, to a large degree, by the consistent drivel spewed from the Right WingNut Radio Puppets, Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck and so forth.  They have created a situation where you have to be hard right wing to link into the free advertising coming from these outlets.

    John McCain bucked this because it was not a small, hand picked group who were voting.  With everyone on board to express their opinion, the 'hard right' ideology was dissed and Republicans picked the most moderate candidate they could find.  This was the backlash from eight years of Neocon ideological control of government and proved, once and for all, that the hard right does not speak for the majority in this country, and never has.  McCain's ascention led to no small amount of laughter on my part, having listened to the Right WingNuts tear McCain down for six months.

    Now, the Neocons are between a rock and a hard place.  Their candidate is not 'acceptable', so they have to put the best face they can on it.  McCain is between a rock and a hard place as well, not having the bona fides to be considered NeoCon Prime Beef, thus making him a 'lame duck' candidate.

    I recently browsed through 'Comeback- Conservatism That Can Win Again', by David Frum.  The first chapter was titled, "What Went Wrong".  In it, he addresses Bush's spending, his lack of flexibility and his conduct of the war.  However, he never addresses the core issues that have branded Conservatism with such an odious veneer.  Looking in the index turns up not one single mention of torture, cooking intelligence, missing WMD's, signing statements or constitutional erosion.

    The biggest problem the Republicans have right now is that they just don't get it.  They don't understand why they are in the position they are in, driven there by the Hard Right hands on the wheel, and don't understand how to return to the real Republican values of fiscal responsibility, small government and law and order.

    Where will they go from here?  Who knows.  It is more than likely that the Right WingNut radio will find some way to morph its message into something that will eventually form a basis to make another try at the Brass Ring.  However, I don't believe that their hard line ideology has enough cache to keep running the way it has been.

    If we are very very lucky, the Republicans will emerge with a new dedication to their original core ideals, ideals that can be useful in the political atmosphere of a Democratic system.

    You see, we need each other.  Conservatives need Liberals and vice versa, to help keep the pendulum from swinging too far to total fascism or total socialism.  Both parties have their good points and both parties can have their bad points.  We have suffered through eight years of the worst of what Radical Republicanism has to offer.

    Let us work towards that place where we can respect each others opinions, debate them cleanly, and compromise together for the good of the people.

    After all, regardless of point of view, we are all 'We The People'.

    "Courage is not the absence of fear but, rather, the recognition that there exists that which is more important than fear." -Aubrey Redmoon

    by jlang57 on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 04:34:31 PM PDT

  •  McCain's Gambling Problem (0+ / 0-)

    McCain's Gambling Problem

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