Daily Kos

Hero Worship and Language Enforcement at Daily Kos (Updated)

Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 01:19:31 PM PDT

There's a remarkable schizophrenia at work in the Daily Kos community. It's not uncommon in progressive circles, and it's been historically responsible for the destruction of progressive coalitions repeatedly in the past.

Of late, in this community, it's taken this form:

(1) a fetish for extreme partisan polarization that tends to a Maoist enforcement of language protocols

vs

(2) a 50-state strategy that tolerates language flexibility, self-criticism, and coalition building.

It's very difficult to reconcile those two impulses, but one is clearly more valuable than the other. It's as simple as the difference between "GATEKEEPING" and "GATE-CRASHING".

One would have thought we had learned the lesson by now.

I. Kill Your Idols

Every time a self-identified progressive appeals to iconography and hero worship (Gore, Kerry in today's case) and slams another progressive for criticizing party missteps or miscalculations, I get really nervous and angry.

It's how the Left destroys itself again and again. It decides which personalities and subjects are improper to criticize, and then it enlarges the scope of each.

I don't over-exaggerate when I call this tendency Maoist in character. The term "politically correct" initially originated in Maoist literature and was used without irony, when unitary meanings for otherwise ambiguous language are preferred and party uniformity explicitly enforced. Herbert Marcuse helped historicize the term, and in later years spoke of the tendency for the Left to overreach and self-repress. When conservatives made "political correctness" an explicit pejorative, the Left abandoned the term altogether and it's viewed

But the earlier Maoist tendency, that of enforcing unitary meanings onto ambiguous language, in order to enforce party unity, still remains.

It persists, and it's precisely about identifying those pure of partisan character, and punishing those who deviate from the constructed profile. The danger, as always, is that the "pure" profile narrows to a scale that can admit nothing human (save for a fantasy Alice passing through the keyhole), and the sins of the "impure" grow to encompass anything that might be captured in normal human speech or activity.

Today, we have an example of a politician who uttered something very similar to many of the sentiments uttered in the past by the founder of this site:

"I don't want to go into the next election starting off with half the country already not wanting to vote for Democrats -- we've done that in 2004, 2000."

The transparent appeal in the comment is to a move beyond the 51% solution favored by both Karl Rove and the Democratic Leadership Council, and toward a Dean-like 50-state solution that broadens the appeal of the progressive message and creates less polarized conditions where non-Democrats are more receptive to such a message.

In both 2000 and 2004, Democrats had no national strategy, but a piecemeal strategy focused on discrete identity groups and so-called "swing states" with no appeal to southern, mid-west, or mountain states constituencies. In each case, we saw a viciously divided nation and a disputed battle over a single "swing state" (Florida in 2000, Ohio in 2004).

That was a failed strategy, and one well-documented both here on this blog and in Markos' book Crashing the Gate. It's one that as a community we have bought into.

So it's quite astonishing that, when one hears the same message echoed back at us, that some would react violently against it. Today, an essentially neutral statement about wanting to break with failed campaign strategies of the past and expanding the audience for a progressive message was reduced to a "slam" of Party Icons, in particular Al Gore. (It's instructive that there is less of a focus on the lesser idol John Kerry, because his name has less populist purchase.)

As a justification of this reduction, the writer himself slams the "punditocracy" (while remaining very much a pundit, focused on a speculative analysis of a small snippet of political language) while claiming:

Amazingly enough, none of them [candidates] walk on water, no matter what their frenzied supporters might think.

The irony here is that the anger that provoked this assertion was justified by an appeal to idolatry, to a perceived slight or criticism of a Party Icon, though the name of that supposed icon never actually appeared in the original source.

So some walk on water and some do not, depending on the season of the argument. It is necessary to kill the idols to become their self-appointed custodian.

II. Dog-Whistling in the Dark

Part of the problem is language.

George Lakoff and his theories of "framing" (which are a popularization and a slight perversion of more theoretical linguistic work Lakoff has done in the field of prototypes, category theory and frame semantics) have both become popular in progressive circles through general audience works like Don't Think of an Elephant and Moral Politics. These ideas are furthered by his popular lectures to Democratic activists through the Rockridge Institute. But this work is far afield from his earlier professional research, and is also poorly understood and often misconstrued.

In the 90s, I studied linguistics and natural languages in a couple Bay Area universities, and even took courses with Lakoff at one point. I find the extension of his work far beyond its originary purpose and scope to be often dismaying, and counterproductive.

"Framing" is not about dog-whistle politics, where we evaluate each of our politicians for affiliation cues and confirmation of a purity template.

No, that's just PC 3.0. It's neo-Maoist cultural correctness. It's like John Birch Society blues, where we find communists under the bed, in the mailbox and delivering our mail itself.

Framing is focused on creating an enduring conceptual framework behind our use of language that reinforces progressive values, which indeed can include the expansive, "maternal" language of bi-partisanship and nurturing. In fact, Lakoff pointedly associates the warrior model of the stern father who divides the world into friend and enemy with the conservative political frame.

So not only is the use of "right-wing framing" often much-reduced and misconstrued in these parts, but the progressive frame itself as Lakoff describes it is misidentified.

Framing can be a useful tool as part of a wider strategy, which reinforces nurturing, expansion of the family unit, national responsibility, and reduction of filial divisions. In many ways, that's Barack Obama's message, while the recent partisan warrior frames of Clinton and Edwards are directly opposed to Lakoff's progressive models.

In general, however, there is a true clumsiness and overuse of meta-language about "right-wing talking points" and "right-wing framing". In the end, it simply cedes more territory to the other team.

When our candidates have to be carefully scripted, and are punished for deviating from a carefully reduced party-enforced language, are candidates lose their vibrancy and fundamental character, and progressives lose in areas of the country where that language does not resonate.

We made our hard-won victories in 2006 by embracing candidates that used very non-urban and non-academic language and held positions on traditional Democratic issues (like gun control) that were rather out-of-step with Democratic conventions. We won precisely by allowing that exceptionalism  to grow unmolested.

We grew and succeeded not with PC language enforcement and dog-whistle politics, but with a commitment to flexible strategies and less polarization, while leaving a fundamental progressive framework in place.

III. Loving the Alien

So why the discomfort with some creative, flexible, ambiguous language that might reach out to those traditionally alienated from Democratic politics?

I know from experience, growing up in one of the "redder" regions of the nation, that it is often the petty infighting over trivial issues of "who is a true liberal" that has reinforced that narrative that liberals are elitist, self-absorbed and radicalized. When we destroy our own because they fairly criticize political strategies that have failed for us in the past, there is little hope for true reform and real coalition building.

Progressives only thrive when party criticism is not only acceptable, but encouraged.

But criticism isn't canonical language enforcement.
Quite the opposite. Substantive criticism begins with leaving the mind open enough to consider the message beyond the bottle. To hear the alien, and love it if you can.

We need as a movement to accommodate more, and purify and punish less.

We need to try to get beyond the 51% solution.

If we approach our progressive leaders with a modicum of trust first, how might the message sound differently?

How, for instance is Barack Obama's quote suggestive of personalities rather than campaign strategies and polarized political conditions that make it difficult to elect a Democrat in a general election scenario?

If he wanted to attack personalities he certainly would've mentioned them by name. Can't we, per Ockham's Razor, accept the language at face value? It's more consistent with what Obama has been saying up until now, and frankly more consistent with what Markos and others have been preaching here in the past as well.

And if there's an implicit criticism of the safe, DLC-endorsed, micro-targeted and often lackluster campaigns of Gore-circa-2000 and Kerry-circa-2004 what the hell's wrong with that? Do any of us really disagree that playing to carefully defined "safe votes" only left us scrabbling for undecideds and left the nation more skeptical of Democrats overall?

Gore in 2007 is sweet enough that you want to kiss him.

Gore in 2000 was cream corn on toast.

Fuck heroes!!!


Let's recognize what's really at stake:

In 2010, under reapportionment, we will lose electoral votes from places like New York and Ohio, and Texas and Arizona will gain them. It won't get any easier to build an enduring progressive coalition by relying on blue state strategies from 2000 and 2004.

It will be even more difficult if we get hung up on a new form of political correctness that I continue to call PC 3.0 -- relying on a script that no one but a caricature of the human can use.

It's time to talk less of "Republican talking points" and "right-wing framing" and talk more of policy differences, coalition building, and the 50-state strategy.

We are so obsessed with the spin, we can't see past the speech to the strategy.

Heroes be damned. The full language is mine, and ours, and more.

Let's use it liberally, and with care. The two are not incompatible.

****

[Diary updated to more explicitly identify what period of Lakoff's work I was referring to, and give better context to the "Neo-Maoist" charge.]

Tags: rhetoric, hero-worship, framing, maoism, political correctness (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 126 comments

    •  As Sam Graham Felsen's Diary Demonstrates (6+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      kpardue, theran, GN1927, ChiGirl88, aaraujo, Holdek

      Barack Obama is ready for the 50-state strategy (offices in ND and Ak--come ON!!!), and is building a powerhouse netroots network based on donations of $100 and less--THIS IS THE DREAM, FOLKS!!!

      Lawton Chiles trumpeted the idea of a campaign free of influence by big money, but I don't think even he dreamed that THIS could be possible.

      Maybe Kos is hung over or something--I'm sure when he looks at this--maybe on Friday--w/clear eyes and a clear head, he'll see that this just might be the beginning of what he's dreamt about for years....LET'S DO THIS!!!

      •  But Obama is not free of (5+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        jxg, Boston Boomer, lanikai, homogenius, Ky DEM

        big money.  Ask the Crown family.

        You are being taken for a ride and don't even see it.

        This is not the dream.  Obama simply is not going to make change.  He won't fight for it.

        Markos sees that.

        "The answer is to end our reliance on carbon-based fuels." Al Gore, 7/17/08

        by TomP on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:05:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The Republicans will fight change (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          historys mysteries

          no matter who proposes it on the Democratic side and no matter how they fight for it.  John Edwards learned in 2004 that the Republicans will cheat to win.

          I don't think Obama is naive. I think he is trying to fight in a different way, by building more of a consensus. If he is nominated I will try to help him build that consensus.

          I think that Edwards is going about fighting for change by building Democratic institutions which is the more effective approach in this climate, poisoned by republican attacks, than consensus building, in my opinion.

          "It's the planet, stupid."

          by FishOutofWater on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:25:03 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I have no problem with consensus. (0+ / 0-)

            But shouldn't the consensus also include Democrats and groups that traditionally support Democratic groups?  I started out wanting to vote for Obama, but then I found out that, because of several characteristics of my life and my beliefs, I'm left out of the Obama's  consensus.  Why would I vote for that?

            There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious...that you've got to put your bodies on the gears...and make it stop. -- Mario Savio

            by Boston Boomer on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 04:06:52 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Good analysis,Maxwell. (9+ / 0-)

    the herd mentality on here is astounding at times.

    Lets just ride it out and then come back together in 5 weeks to support the ultimate winner. But lets not degrade ourselves by stooping to rovian tactics or groupthink to establish that nominee. Otherwise , there will be no coming together and we get mccain.

  •  But we aren't a 51% nation (6+ / 0-)

    anymore.  The 28-33% of dead enders who still back Bush cannot be won over under any circumstances.  The Republican Party is suffering from numerous self inflicted wounds.  It is time for us to take ground on our own terms, not give it up.

    "There are no happy endings in the Bush Administration". - Randall L. Tobias

    by MadRuth on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 01:25:02 PM PDT

  •  cult(s) of personality (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    jxg, theran, hairspray, kaye, Quicklund

    it's the lowest, & i do mean lowest common denominator in american politics. it's "who would you like to have lunch with" run amok.
    but what do i know? i've been called naive & stupid for supporting kucinch because i support his policy positions.

    Anyone who advocates, supports, defends, rationalizes, or excuses torture has pus for brains and a case of scurvy for a conscience. - James Wolcott

    by rasbobbo on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 01:33:04 PM PDT

  •  We need a 100% strategy. (0+ / 0-)

    Embrace our common humanity; reject our partisan morality.

    Wait a second: who's the politically-conformist Maoist here?

  •  Obama - the more I know him, the more I like him. (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    kpardue, iowabosox, Holdek, whitetiger

    Great diary.

  •  Excellent analysis (6+ / 0-)

    I've been complaining about the misappropriation of Lakoff in comments for the last few days -- but I'm glad you did hard work of pinpointing the problem.  My professional bias is to prefer the political-psychological formulations of framing, rather than his linguistics.  But I do recognize the value in his scholarly work, properly understood.

    Highly recommended.

    •  I find Lakoff's political analysis (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      jxg, cardinal, Unduna, Holdek

      disappointingly simplistic. The conservative stern father and the liberal nurturing mother are, as far as I'm concerned, unfortunate stereotypes.

      We need leadership and deliberation both nurturing and stern.

      That need has, IMHO, very little to do with "conservatism" or "liberalism" as caricatured by Lakoff. It has to do with drawing distinctions between values and policies that are humane and seek to widen the public sphere and those that are selfish and seek to narrow it. Now it so happens that many modern "conservatives" are also selfish and hold inhumane opinions about policies ranging from healthcare to torture. These folks need a stern lesson in progressive leadership.

      I say all this having read some of Lakoff's work, both the popular "elephant" stuff and his more serious and well-grounded (again IMHO) academic work.

      While I agree with Maxwell that we need to move off the "swing state" strategy to one that mobilizes people of good will across the political spectrum, I do not think we get there by abandoning the language of "fighting" for what's good and right in America. We need to fight for our freedom and our welfare. The powers that be will not cede it willingly. They never have abd they never will.

      The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves, that we are underlings. -- Julius Caesar, I.ii.

      by semiot on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 01:57:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  There are extensions to (0+ / 0-)

        The conservative stern father and the liberal nurturing mother are, as far as I'm concerned, unfortunate stereotypes.

        this that I'm not sure Lakoff goes into. It's been a while since I've dug into him.

        I heard him talk about this metaphor back in 2000/2001. There was some cross-over between the metaphor frames that he didn't really cover.

        Mariachi Mama Candidate Bickering Moratorium! Signatory to the Carnacki Petition

        by kredwyn on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:10:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm actually a big fan of Lakoff's (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          kredwyn

          academic work. He has done a marvelous job of connecting basic physiological, psychological, and philosophical concepts with a deep understanding of language, metaphor, and categorical logic.

          I have to admit I have not followed his later political analysis. I simply think he got it wrong with his original connection of family, gender, and political ideology.

          The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves, that we are underlings. -- Julius Caesar, I.ii.

          by semiot on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:28:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I don't disagree with you. (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        semiot

        I find his distinct frames simplistic as well, frustratingly so. And it's what typically happens when you try to popularize and extend rather specialized theoretical arguments.

        But I also find it ironic that progressives use Lakoff's ideas of "right-wing framing" yet often embrace the frames that he considers anti-progressive.

        But the gendered binaries? They're frustrating, no doubt.

        'Fie upon the Congress' - Sen Bob Byrd

        by Maxwell on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:36:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  The fact that Kucinich endorsed Obama in Iowa (8+ / 0-)

    should say something about how much over-spun media excerpts have to do with a candidate's policies and deeds.

    Kucinich is unquestionably the most progressive of the current slate of candidates, and his choice of Obama over Edwards says something.

    'Fie upon the Congress' - Sen Bob Byrd

    by Maxwell on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 01:40:01 PM PDT

    •  hah (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      DawnG

      so now we can take our cues from the progressive hero Kucinich? ha ha ha ha ha

      The anti-war hero Kucinich endorsed whom during the last IA caucuses, and why?

      Loved the "neo maoist" stuff too.

      •  I consider Kucinich no hero. (0+ / 0-)

        But he's rather steadfast on policy. So, I believe it's illustrative to see who he embraces based on policy positions this time.

        Pretty glib argument, smintheus. It uses the same sort of projection tendencies I'm critiquing.

        And on neo-maoist tendencies in progressive circles? They are frighteningly real, and I don't love them at all.

        'Fie upon the Congress' - Sen Bob Byrd

        by Maxwell on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:40:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  At the same time (0+ / 0-)

          that you're going on and on about the neo-Maoism of dailykos, you write this:

          It's like John Birch Society blues, where we find communists under the bed, in the mailbox and delivering our mail itself.

          so, which is it.  Is dailykos riddled with Red Chinese Maoists or is that Bircher witch-hunting?

          A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves. ~Edward R. Murrow

          by ActivistGuy on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 03:00:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's the exactly the same tendency. (0+ / 0-)

            The left hunts the left in one, and the right hunts the left in another.

            McCarthyism and Maoism are just two virulent strains of the same cultural purification mentality, where language and behavior is scrutinized to reveal impurities and cues to affiliations with the "enemy".

            'Fie upon the Congress' - Sen Bob Byrd

            by Maxwell on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 04:17:33 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  supurb (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Myrrander

    It's weird that dailykos is sounding so much like this these days.  After putting in some time on the far left for a while I decided to be pragmatic and hang out under the big tent for a while with the hoping maybe accomplishing somthing.

    I think I'm losing my faith in democracy.  Where do we sign up to get the kings back?

    ---
    Fight the stupid! Boycott BREAKING diaries!

    by VelvetElvis on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 01:40:18 PM PDT

  •  While the Republicans are using bulldozers (8+ / 0-)

    to push the Overton window far, far into Wingnutograd we are supposed to be ashamed of having been Democrats and standing up for sane policies?

    I don't buy it.  It isn't just about winning an election (though that is itself critical).  It's about returning the country to the values we grew up appreciating.

    You don't get there by framing a little bit more inclusively and criticizing the party for being too Democratic (with a big D).

    Additionally, I see Obama's criticism of the party as posturing, attempting to set himself apart when he's really just another politician.

    Some of the criticism of Obama is well deserved.

    You can't reason someone out of something they weren't reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

    by A Mad Mad World on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 01:42:12 PM PDT

    •  But I don't think a real case has been made (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      theran, GN1927, arielle, brklyngrl

      that Obama is criticizing the party for being too Democratic (with a big D).

      I read it as he's criticizing only those that feel "Democratic" has become a brand that only a few are pure enough to buy.

      And given that he has the most liberal voting record of all the seated Senators, it's really hard for me to buy that he's somehow abandoning progressive principles with "right-wing talking points".

      Rather, I think these "right-wing talking points" are UFOs that self-tortured progressives are seeing in every backyard because it's primary weather, and the storms never cease.

      'Fie upon the Congress' - Sen Bob Byrd

      by Maxwell on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 01:52:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Democrats playing chicken in Iraq (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        FishOutofWater

        is not your idea of a right wing talking point?

        You can't reason someone out of something they weren't reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

        by A Mad Mad World on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:02:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Nope. (0+ / 0-)

          I could care less about Democrats critiquing Democrats on the issues or failed political strategies.

          I have a big problem with Democrats attacking Democrats for using "improper" language or, indeed, critiquing political campaigns we effectively lost.

          Progressives should self-criticize, on the issues.

          'Fie upon the Congress' - Sen Bob Byrd

          by Maxwell on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:46:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's a shame you don't care (0+ / 0-)

            Republicans have had a fire sale portraying Democrats as anti-troop and a bunch of pacifists willing to sacrifice everything so they can sing Kumbaya with the enemies of our country.

            When a prominent Democratic presidential nominee buys into that theme it not only hurts the party but makes it that much harder to end this disastrous war.

            For someone who claims to care about framing you seem to ignore really significant ones.

            You can't reason someone out of something they weren't reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

            by A Mad Mad World on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 03:15:42 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  The language is the issue (0+ / 0-)

            That's the fundamental difference between the various tiny interest groups which comprise the Democratic Party (not necessarily because they have any common values or interests, but very simply because the Republicans hate us one and all), and the few large mainstream conservative groups which are the Republican Party: the former are fighting for social acceptance; the latter are fighting for economic power.

            Your sneering vocabulary here is laughable; if there are "Maoists" among us (and there aren't), it is the group of conservatives who seek to deny the differences which are our issues, in favor of a false unity.

            •  I've identified no Maoists. (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              walkshills

              Only Maoist tendencies.

              Mao is long dead. But the the obsession with "right-wing framing" and "talking points" is just a new virulent strain of the PC language enforcement that was characteristic of a more radicalized moment in history.

              "Sneering" is your projection, not mine.

              'Fie upon the Congress' - Sen Bob Byrd

              by Maxwell on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 04:08:40 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Your initial quote (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    musing85, TiaRachel

    is extremely biased and leading. It's not as black and white as you portray it.

    Blind partisanship can indeed be a bad thing, but it can be equally bad to stay so middle of the road that you lose whatever qualities would have made you a good leader.

    So, why do we hate Obama today?

    by TheBlaz on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 01:48:25 PM PDT

    •  What quote? (0+ / 0-)

      The first quote in the diary is taken directly from Markos' frontpage post.

      As far as "biased and leading"? Which opinion isn't biased in some direction? Your own opinions have bias.

      Opinions show bias.

      'Fie upon the Congress' - Sen Bob Byrd

      by Maxwell on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 01:54:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I meant your first quote box. (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        musing85, jxg, homogenius

            (1) a fetish for extreme partisan polarization that tends to a Maoist enforcement of language protocols

           vs

           (2) a 50-state strategy that tolerates language flexibility, self-criticism, and coalition building.

        It's a false choice, like having a poll that has only two options, one of which is obviously repellent.

        So, why do we hate Obama today?

        by TheBlaz on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:08:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's not to meant to be a binary choice. (0+ / 0-)

          They are two very obvious tendencies that are largely incompatible.

          I've seen no strong argument that extreme polarization and enforcement of language protocols builds larger, stronger progressive coalitions.

          The extreme divisions in this very community on the language Markos used today should be illustrative.

          'Fie upon the Congress' - Sen Bob Byrd

          by Maxwell on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:50:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Then tell us: Why does it work for the right? (4+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            grollen, musing85, jxg, walkshills

            Why do lower-middle class people who will never see an inheritance call the estate tax the "death tax", and view it as unfair?

            Why do working class people assume Republicans are the party of "family values"?

            On and on . . .

            So---Why does putting "conservative" in this sentence make it false?: "I've seen no strong argument that extreme polarization and enforcement of language protocols builds larger, stronger conservative coalitions."

            It's false because that's exactly what the Republicans started doing in 1980, and it's come down on Democrats like a load of rocks. We're living in a world made by Republican "extreme polarization and enforcement of language protocols."

  •  I cannot take seriously an analysis (10+ / 0-)

    that uses "political correctness" in a credulous way.  Maoist of me?  Who knows, but I just won't listen to someone who takes seriously one of the most insidious wingnut attacks on the left of the past couple decades.

    •  this is where the phrase comes from (8+ / 0-)

      it's about 30 years out of date, but it comes from marcuse inspired campus radicalism of the 1970s.  At the time it was used by the left in a self-depreciating way to check people who went "too far."

      This is actually the first time I've ever seen the term used appropriately.

      ---
      Fight the stupid! Boycott BREAKING diaries!

      by VelvetElvis on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 01:58:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Which one is that? (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      GN1927, walkshills, CAL11 voter, brklyngrl

      Are you really disavowing that political correctness was a phenomenon in the 70s under Mao or in domestic universities in a more benign form in the late 70s through the 90s.

      Hell, I took classes with Angela Davis at Santa Cruz where she pointedly examined political correctness on the left as a problematic phenomenon that limits coalition building.

      This ain't new, and many of us on the left recognize it.

      What was at issue with the so-called Culture Wars was not that political correctness did not exist in some form, it's what the Right misidentified as PC, and how they misrepresented conflicts within the Left itself.

      'Fie upon the Congress' - Sen Bob Byrd

      by Maxwell on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:00:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  when the right uses it (0+ / 0-)

        it's pretty much red baiting

        ---
        Fight the stupid! Boycott BREAKING diaries!

        by VelvetElvis on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:23:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You are incredibly refreshing! (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        GN1927

        "We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America." Barack Obama

        by keeplaughing on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 03:07:52 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  can you cite anything good of hers on this? (0+ / 0-)

        I've been trying to fix up the wikipedia article on political correctness to show how it's evolved.  

        ---
        Fight the stupid! Boycott BREAKING diaries!

        by VelvetElvis on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 03:32:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not uniquely dedicated to the issue. (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          walkshills

          It came up several times in course discussions I remember as a result of her comment in the early 70s that "there can be no opposing argument to an issue which has only one correct side." It's often been cited as one of the non-ironic early uses of political correctness in an American political context, and Davis took care to historicize the comment, and distinguish it in the context of political action apart from the contested language of identity politics, which sometimes involves a commodification of identity on the one hand, and a standardization of it on the other...neither of which she seemed comfortable with.

          This was the early 90s, so it's hard to say how her thoughts have evolved since then, but I'd love to see her put the thoughts into an extended essay or book form.

          'Fie upon the Congress' - Sen Bob Byrd

          by Maxwell on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 05:12:44 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I agree with this MissLaura (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      smintheus

      "Maoist" was an unfortunate - needlessly inflammatory - way to frame the distinction Maxwell sought to draw.

      The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves, that we are underlings. -- Julius Caesar, I.ii.

      by semiot on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:01:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  In fact, you make my case for me, MissLaura. (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      GN1927, arielle, walkshills

      Based on a less-than-comprehensive familiarity of the term's history, you project a unitary value system on what is an otherwise fraught concept.

      And you determine that the mere citation of the term is sufficient to dismiss all my points across the board.

      So in a single speech act, you demonstrated how political correctness works. You became a language enforcer.

      This line of thinking is the singlemost destructive tendency on the Left. It destroys coalitions, and it yields to reflexive, uncritical thinking.

      'Fie upon the Congress' - Sen Bob Byrd

      by Maxwell on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:28:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Um (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    musing85, jxg, smintheus, semiot

    Neo-Maoist?  I see the phrase in the title but I don't see any explanation in the diary. Is it cynical of me to suggest that it was put in the title because it sounded cool and edgy?

  •  Here's a great comment on this issue (13+ / 0-)

    of "partisanship" and the need to water down the Democratic brand because "partisanship" gridlock is anathema to a democracy.  Like Tomasky says, "there is no halfway with today's conservatives when they are responsible for 80% of the problems."

    But they horribly misdiagnose the current problem of partisan gridlock. Their approach assumes that America is in this condition because "both sides" are equally culpable.   This is nonsense. Republicans and conservatives are responsible for about 80% of the problem.

    Only one side tried to politicize 9/11. Only one side scheduled a war vote for a month before an election. Only one side ran a television commercial that visually equated a man who'd left three limbs in Vietnam with Saddam Hussein. Only one side impeached a president over oral sex. Only once in American history has a sitting Senate party leader personally gone into the home state of the other party leader and campaigned against him: Republican Bill Frist, in 2004, against Tom Daschle.

    Democrats and liberals aren't blameless, of course. But the idea that blame should be equally apportioned is fantasy. And it's pernicious fantasy, because if one assumes that both parties are equally at fault, then one assumes also that the solution is to meet halfway to come up with results. But there is no meeting halfway with today's conservatives.

    For example, there are 47 million uninsured people in America. Democrats want to insure all of them, or almost all of them. Now, if Republicans wanted to insure, say, 11 million of them, then fine, both sides could sit down and agree to split the difference and insure 29 million.

    But Republicans don't want to insure 11 million people. They want to insure zero. There is no compromising with that. There is only defeating it.

    Armando is correct about utilizing the "politics of contrast."  We have nothing to lose and everything to gain by being PROUD to be a Progressive Democratic Party leading this nation to a better future.

    Our... constitutional heritage rebels at the thought of giving government the power to control men's minds. Thurgood Marshall

    by bronte17 on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 01:56:00 PM PDT

    •  a big chunk of the electorate (0+ / 0-)

      has not come to that conclusion.  They just want to partisan infighting to stop and don't really care how.  Edwards lilting at windmills does not make them feel confident.  They don't want someone who is pledging to fight the last battle for them.  They want someone who will make the fighting stop.  They want hope for a better future, not the promise of battles to come.

      ---
      Fight the stupid! Boycott BREAKING diaries!

      by VelvetElvis on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:29:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Nope. They want solutions to their kitchen table (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        musing85, trashablanca

        problems.  Doesn't matter how you get it... just get the job done.

        And the only ones using the partisan "infighting" as bad meme are the Republicans.  Of course they want to tell everyone that the problem is the big bad Dems not playing nice and everything.

        Sheesh. Sit the WATB kids in their corner, let them suck their thumbs or whatever else they like to suck on, and let the adults take back our constitutional institutions.

        Only 20% of the electorate are the Republican corner.

        It's our job to show people and guide people to the best conclusions.  That's what leadership is for.

        They don't seem to have a problem with illogical battles that are draining our treasury. Why would they have a problem with us correcting course and turning this nation around?

        Our... constitutional heritage rebels at the thought of giving government the power to control men's minds. Thurgood Marshall

        by bronte17 on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 03:11:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  nail hit driven deep n/t (0+ / 0-)

      Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D.

      by TrueBlueMajority on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 07:32:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Maoist. (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    jxg, semiot, homogenius

    Yep, you're going to convince a whole lot of people with that. They'll be sure to read past the title.

    Shame, because the diary seems to have some substance to it.

    "'Politics' is made up of two words. 'Poli,' which is Greek for 'many,' and 'tics,' which are bloodsucking insects." --Gore Vidal

    by Illissius on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:00:31 PM PDT

    •  it's actualy hilarious (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      jxg

      A lot of the rhetoric around here sounds like it came right out of the cultural revolution and it's coming from people who would never in a million years consider themselves any kind of socialist.

      ---
      Fight the stupid! Boycott BREAKING diaries!

      by VelvetElvis on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:19:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  In 2000, Gore was milquetoast... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    semiot, kaye

    well handled milquetoast.

    By 2006, that milquetoast candidate was gone:

    Mariachi Mama Candidate Bickering Moratorium! Signatory to the Carnacki Petition

    by kredwyn on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:04:02 PM PDT

  •  Heroes ... and Villains. (0+ / 0-)

    Look how many diaries are suggesting that Nader's endorsement of Edwards is somehow a bad thing for Edwards.

    Never mind that a substantial proportion of this blog's contributors would agree with Nader on most policy questions. They hate him for his independent campaign, so they hate him ... period. It is the ultimate substitution of partisan tribalism for policy-based ... um ... politics.

    I don't much care what anybody thinks of Nader, as far as his 3rd-party campaigning goes. But if you actually disagree with his policy stances ... well, then, you're my political enemy.

    I am further of the opinion that the President must be impeached and removed from office!

    by UntimelyRippd on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:10:26 PM PDT

    •  It may be really unfair to blame Nader. (0+ / 0-)

      I mean, its not Nader's fault Gore didn't go out and win a big enough victory to ensure election, even though he was a sitting vice president running behind a popular incumbent.

      I dont like Nader because I think he's a jackass.

      With him from the beginning, with him until the end.

      by brooklynbadboy on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:24:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This is a very smart point (4+ / 0-)

    in my opinion.  Just when I thought I should really move on from the netroots, this diary reminded me what brought me here in the first place.

    Although all the comments commenting exclusively on what language you used rather than the ideas you are raising both prove your point and remind me why I've been thinking of moving on.

    •  Its all entertainment BK. (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      GN1927, brklyngrl

      You can't take any of these netroots too seriously. Whenever you come on here, keep this in mind:

      1- The netroots are small and scattered. It's simply an impotent voting block. They're good for seed money in getting a congressional or local candidacy started, and thats about it.

      2- The Demographics here look nothing like the Democratic Party at large. Take a look at the pics from YearlyKos, and compare that to say, a Democratic Convention. Comapare and contrast.

      3- Its mostly fun for when youre bored. Other than that, it really has no value.

      Yes, we know this site is racist, closed-minded, and provincial, but it can still be a lot of fun!

      With him from the beginning, with him until the end.

      by brooklynbadboy on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:30:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Trojan Horse Diary. (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    DawnG, musing85, jxg, MakeChessNotWar, grimc

    Starts out as a passionate and articulate examination of progressive discourse and ends as yet another Obamalicious screed.

    Funny thing--it conveniently leaves out the fact that Obama supporters are among the most monolithic and demanding in requiring adulation of their candidate.

    Sorry, no. Just no.

    Well Dayum! The Fat Lady just sang her tits right off!

    by homogenius on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:12:57 PM PDT

    •  Huh? It was examining Markos' post about Obama. (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      GN1927, arielle

      And the community tendencies (at cross-purposes) it demonstrates.

      I'm hardly hiding anything.

      So it's hardly a trojan horse. It's meant to be taken as a whole.

      'Fie upon the Congress' - Sen Bob Byrd

      by Maxwell on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:31:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  yeah. (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      musing85, jxg, homogenius

      Obama is right now the biggest idol for leftwing hero-worship.

      But how much of that is intentional on Obama's side?  And how much is a consquence of decmoratic desperation that we HAVE to win this one?  There are just some people who want a hero to worship and they'll find one whether they're cultivated or not.

      Last time it was Dean.  Dean was a rockstar, and a lot of us worshiped him.  This time it's Obama.  If it wasn't him it'd be someone else.  It makes no sense to blame Obama for it.

      Of course it makes less sense to take a diary about hero worship and Maoist language and then turn around and worship the biggest idol on the Dem side.

    •  Too confusing to be Trojan Horse (4+ / 0-)

      Although the diary makes a few good points, I found it confusing and confused when it comes to the linguistics (the field in which I have my Ph.D.). Lakoff's frames have nothing to do with intra-party squabbling. And I have no idea what "Maoist" language is.

      The problem we face as progressives, is that most of our candidates don't meet our standards,at least once they are elected. Nancy Pelosi had hero status until she got power, and now she's a disgraced failure.

      Primaries are all about sorting out candidates. That requires criticism. We all know the candidate will be a compromise, and most of the squabbles we have will have no impact in the general election.

      It' snot about framing, it is about truth.

      Don't you think John McCain looks tired?

      by MakeChessNotWar on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:57:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Like many professional linguists, you likely have (0+ / 0-)

        not followed Lakoff's political work of late, where he clumsily tries to apply "framing" to progressive politics. See: Don't Think of an Elephant and Moral Politics to some degree. Most professionals, students and colleagues of Lakoff in the 80s and 90s are unfamiliar with this recent work.

        I don't particularly recommend it, because it has extended his prior work on metaphor beyond reasonable conclusions and while claiming to be descriptive becomes prescriptive and rather arbitrary in the frames it offers up for progressives and conservatives. But Lakoff is very popular for this Rockridge Institute work, and progressives are increasingly appropriating (and decontextualizing) his language.

        I also don't think I mention "Maoist language" anywhere. I'm talking about the Maoist tendency toward enforcement of unitary meaning in otherwise ambiguous language. Thus: "language enforcement".

        As far as "it's not about framing, it's about truth", well, while I sympathize, Lakoff does not agree of late.

        'Fie upon the Congress' - Sen Bob Byrd

        by Maxwell on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 03:12:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Unitary meaning and ambiguous language (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          homogenius

          You dismiss the interpretation that Obama was attacking Gore and Kerry, then offer as fact your interpretation that Obama was really talking about a 50-state strategy. He didn't say "Gore" or "Kerry", but neither did he say "50-state".

          So apparently, you think the only valid interpretation is the one that makes Obama the 50-state-strategy champion, the leader of a progressive revolution.

          Which makes those who disagree--wait for it--counter-revolutionaries.

          Heh.

          The 'Maoism' is pretty thick everywhere, I guess.

          •  Very thick, indeed. (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            musing85, grimc

            I recommend galoshes. Or hip-waders.

            Well Dayum! The Fat Lady just sang her tits right off!

            by homogenius on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 03:37:31 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  The weakness in that line of argument... (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            walkshills

            ...is that I don't consider the 50-state strategy to be "revolutionary". It used to be rather conventional.

            Plus, his 50-state strategy is transparent, given how many states he's opened offices in.

            And I've yet to see a coherent argument that Obama was attacking either person. Just a lot of leading and normative language to demagogue progressives into thinking so.

            There's no reasonable back-story to support the "Obama slams Gore" argument.

            It doesn't even remotely make sense in the context of his remarks.

            What does make sense is the narrative (very publicly stated) that he (Obama) is trying to engage independents and moderate Republicans as well as Democrats, thus creating a broader coalition that will result in better success in the general election. He's also trying to draw attention to the fact that Clinton has much higher negatives than he does, as did Kerry and Gore, who inherited a hostile media, well-rehearsed narratives about their perceived faults, and less of favorable/unfavorable point spread than he currently has.

            All of those are fair points, and easily derivable from his current stump speech and the excerpted comment, when placed in that context.

            The decontextualize quote doesn't make sense. How does a left-field, random attack on Gore and Kerry even fit into his speech? It doesn't. It's interpolated there by partisans trying to demagogue the candidate.

            'Fie upon the Congress' - Sen Bob Byrd

            by Maxwell on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 04:02:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Lakoff destroyed Mao on that one (0+ / 0-)

            Unitary meaning is absurd, and Lakoff demolished it in Women, Fire and Dangerous Things.

            I follow Alice. A word means what I want it to mean, no more no less. Your mileage may vary.

            Don't you think John McCain looks tired?

            by MakeChessNotWar on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 07:44:11 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  That's fine, and I sympathize. (0+ / 0-)

              But I'm also not making a normative proposition.

              Unitary meaning may be absurd, but dim inquisitors have killed more with less.

              You can follow Alice onto the chessboard, but in a slow, slow country, that won't prevent the Red Queen from lopping off your head.

              'Fie upon the Congress' - Sen Bob Byrd

              by Maxwell on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 01:57:08 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Quite the opposite (0+ / 0-)

          I've known Lakoff for decades, and have welcomed his increased political profile. As for the scope of Lskoff's framing work, I do agree, but it is normal for academics to take a good thing too far. I also don't buy into his fundamental maternal/paternal dichotomy as far as politics go.

          But all of his stuff in Women, Fire and Dangerous things makes great sense, and his preference for prototypes over static definitions deserves much more attention. Especially in formal linguistics, where works like Ross on "nouniness" is overlooked.

          Lakoff went into "Construction Grammar", a templatic approach, while I helped pioneer Autolexical linguistics, a word-based approach.

          So I have no problem disagreeing with Lakoff, but recognize his enormous contributions.

          Don't you think John McCain looks tired?

          by MakeChessNotWar on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 07:42:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I do love that book. (0+ / 0-)

            I have quibbles with it, but it was precisely that book that drove me to take my first course with him. I have an autographed copy going back to my student years in the early 90s.

            I went the computational route and work in industry now, so I'm far afield from theoretical pursuits.

            But you must be Eric Schiller.

            'Fie upon the Congress' - Sen Bob Byrd

            by Maxwell on Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 01:50:24 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Frames are a fucking sham. (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    GN1927, FishOutofWater, brklyngrl

    I read Lakoff and to me it sounds like a lot bullshit from someone who has never ran for office. Essentially he is offering an updated version of what used to be called a "pitch."

    Former very successful presidents didnt have frame engineers like Lakoff. They simply said what they thought in the most direct and eloquent way they could. This is essentially a talent, and not something one can manufacture. Either a politician has it or he doesen't.

    What all this framing crap aims to do is fool people in the opposite direction. Theybe bought the Republican stuff, so now its time to sell them our "framing."

    Fuck that. Just make your pitch in words that are most natural to you. Be WHO YOU ARE. Thats what people want: authenticity, not "framing." All this engineered language is horrible. Its why when you hear Hillary Clinton talk it sounds like a robot. Im sure shes been frame engineered to death, and its HORRIBLE.

    With him from the beginning, with him until the end.

    by brooklynbadboy on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:13:52 PM PDT

    •  Some of the criticisms of Obama (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      GN1927

      around here are just so weird. It's all "memes" and "frames" and "talking points" etc. His record and platform and the substance of what he's calling for are just totally ignored because of some "meme" or another.

      brooklynbadboy hit the nail on the head right above me. Nobody wants a candidate who calculates all of their words in order to promote the right "meme" or "frame," or to avoid saying something that might've been said by a Republican at some point in time. It's not authentic. People want an authentic person who speaks the truth as they see it, in their own language.

      I think it's reasonable to have some people somewhere thinking about these kinds of things at the meta-level, about how to shift the terms of the debate into our favor, but we also need to get some perspective on the relative importance of that in the general scheme of things.

      •  Uh... (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        chrississippi, jxg

        Nobody wants a candidate who calculates all of their words in order to promote the right "meme" or "frame,"

        In spite of the new words, this "message stuff" stuff is older than Socrates.

        Mariachi Mama Candidate Bickering Moratorium! Signatory to the Carnacki Petition

        by kredwyn on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:43:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Why don't you just call it (0+ / 0-)

          a message or a theme then?

          •  Because... (0+ / 0-)

            There are distinctions that exist between the different academic disciplines. Different academics have coined different words to represent the same thing...seen from a different POV.

            The theme is a bit different from a meme:

            the term "meme" to describe a unit of human cultural evolution analogous to the gene, arguing that replication also happens in culture, albeit in a different sense.

            Framing:

            "Framing is the process by which a communication source, such as a news organization, defines and constructs a political issue or public controversy" (Nelson, Oxley, & Clawson, 1997, p. 221).

            Some of it depends on who is doing the construction of the message...

            Mariachi Mama Candidate Bickering Moratorium! Signatory to the Carnacki Petition

            by kredwyn on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 03:03:33 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Neither of those quotes explains (0+ / 0-)

              what the difference between a "meme" as it's used around here and a theme or between "framing" and developing a message.

              I get the point of what people are trying to say, I just don't understand using unnecessarily esoteric language to do so.

              •  Here... (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                walkshills

                Red, cherry red, and fire engine red...all are red...but different, yes?

                Different groups have coined different words to represent the same thing...seen from a different POV.

                A social scientist looks at the rhetorical situation from a different POV that a political scientist would. That same political scientist looks at the same situation from a different POV than a historian might.

                Memes a