Daily Kos

I'm Switching from Edwards to Clinton: NY

Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 07:44:07 AM PDT

Today, after finishing The Terror Dream by Susan Faludi, I've decided that this race is about gender - more than most people know.  For this reason, I'm voting for the person best fit to wage that war - Hillary Clinton.  I live in New York, and so will be casting my ballot for her on 2/5.

Because I'm writing a book about talk radio and publishing a peer reviewed article about gay-baiting in US political elections, I spend a lot of time paying attention to both the pop sides and the mainstream aspects of our nation's political discussions.  What seems to emerge quite often is an oblique distinction between the parties as male and female.  Lakoff argues that Democrats should embrace the distinction.  I don't know what I think of that argument specifically, but I know what Republicans think of that.  They certainly don't see the feminine democrat as anything to fear.  Hence, references to Edwards as the "Breck Girl," and socialism as a "nanny state."  

After reading Faludi's book, however, I've come to realize that we stand to lose far more by continuing to frame our political arguments in the same old way - by trying to out-male the alpha-party republicans.  First of all, none of our candidates is willing to do it.  An alpha-democrat in my opinion would try to strengthen unions, protect markets, address income discrepancies, address healthcare, and face national debt issues head on - that is rhetorically in public forums.  Because most democratic candidates suck so badly (that is, they've abandoned so much of what it means to be a New Deal Democrat), what we actually end up getting is milquetoast corporate-friendly pukes, e.g., Bill Clinton).

Second, Gloria Steinem's piece in the NYT was spot on!  If any woman ran for president with Obama's or Edward's resume, she'd be absolute toast.  That needs to be addressed.  That is just fucking wrong!

Third, that Clinton has taken a lot of corporate money, I'm led to say, "So what?"  Of course she has.  Because she's been a public servant and a mother for so long, she didn't get to amass Edwards wealth.  And let's face it, Obama's collection of small contributions are a luxury that Clinton doesn't have because people are willing to look well past his lack of experience to avoid a Clinton candidacy.  She shouldn't have to whore herself for corporate money, but our system necessitates it.  Cut her some slack.

And what has come to be totally ass-twisted about the Republican version of masculinity is that it actually is a  nut-snipped version of manhood.  "Trust your country" Guiliani says.  Fuck you!  Answer questions!  Have some balls and face your public!  Asking you questions doesn't mean we don't adore you, precious Rudy.  Since when did being a man mean not reading books, being stupid, and juvenile, and spending the college fund on a Hemi?  I don't get it.  The feminine has been recoded as smart, and deliberate - just about everything masculinity has been since the Renaissance.  I say, "Run with it." If Clinton's being a woman means she's careful, thoughtful, literate, and can listen - I want that.

Supporting Clinton has far-reaching policy implications, if only understood in very oblique ways.  Bush and the fuck-Nazi's shitting on our country right now have been waging a war against the feminine since the moment they arrived.  I'm supporting Clinton because that war needs to end.  I'm supporting Clinton because the spread of "democracy" advocated by Bush has worked to silence women, or maintain their "place" in traditional roles.  I've been particularly moved to support Clinton because of the shitty treatment of the "Jersey Girls," the 9/11 widows attacked and torn to shreds by intolerant non-thinkers like Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Anne Coulter, and various Republican office-holders.  

None of this means that I don't like the other candidates.  I've been a fan of Edward's populism since '04, but I've changed my mind.  By the way, I'm a man who used to be a Republican - I outed myself as a Dem. 6 years ago.  Today, I couldn't be more Democratic than I am.

Tags: hillary clinton, gloria steinem, 2008 elections, president, Recommended (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 367 comments

  •  I hope you're wearing (19+ / 0-)

    flame-retardant clothing today.

    A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having // Swords Crossed

    by quaoar on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 07:44:57 AM PDT

  •  Fun with hypocrisy. (27+ / 0-)

    So, what have we learned today?

    Gender is a perfectly valid reason to against some people, but not against other people.

    Okay...

    it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses | Buy M.I.A.'s Kala! (No, really. Please!)

    by Addison on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 07:47:25 AM PDT

    •  All things being equal (12+ / 0-)

      on issues for many of us, yes, gender matters.

      If you don't get that, I have to wonder if you live in the real world.

      •  Gender matters. (15+ / 0-)

        Gender matters. As long as it's the right gender! Rockin'!!!

        "I have to wonder if you live in the real world"

        Oh, I respect people who use that line so much!

        it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses | Buy M.I.A.'s Kala! (No, really. Please!)

        by Addison on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 07:50:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Gender does matter (20+ / 0-)

          You are arguing that gender shouldn't matter, yet somehow the genderless is always articulated by men.

          Steinem was right that Obama is perceived as a hero for talking abour race while Clinton is seen as a divider for merely being a woman.

          •  Obama barely mentions race (8+ / 0-)

            hence the "not black enough" meme that the MSM, particularly the NYTimes, has peddled.

            •  Not at all true (11+ / 0-)

              He could manage to never mention his race, and yet talk about race all day.  His delivery has intonations of southern black rhetoric, and if you don't catch it you need to spend more time in this country.  Look at his speech following his win in Iowa - it was packed with double entendre intended to make his election EITHER about race or policy.  It was so vague anyway, that you could also say that he said nothing at all.  Of course, that wasn't true.

              Plus, Clinton has no reason to bring up that she has a vagina.  All the pundits do it for her.  She's damned if she does or doesn't.

              Still, regardless of which of these candidates wins, the race will be about women v. men or blacks v. whites.  Mark my words.  This country seems far better prepared to deal with a black male - the hyper-expression of masculinity than a woman.

              •  Disqualifier. (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                leftneck

                Look, your basic argument that men are violent and women peaceful and, therefore, ipso facto:

                I'm supporting Clinton because that war needs to end.

                ...is quite enough to take the breath away from anyone who's actually voting on the issues. You're voting for Clinton because you want the war to end. Oh. My. God. This is why we don't vote based on gender in this country.

                it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses | Buy M.I.A.'s Kala! (No, really. Please!)

                by Addison on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 08:02:50 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  I don't think that's the case at all (5+ / 0-)

                Obama does use AA intonations and make oblique references to being a symbol of ending racial divides, but the point of much of his rhetoric (and the source of the "not black enough" meme) is the insistence that race "doesn't matter." That's a far cry from embracing social concepts regarding what constitutes the feminine and reinforcing patriarchal notions for political gain in the name of identity politics. Time and time again, the media, in the most mainstream of outlets, has pushed the notion that Obama is "safe" and "acceptable" exactly because he isn't "like" Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton. If you don't think Obama would get crucified by the whit emedia if he did anything more than occasionally speak with a certain intonation or make bland appeals to "color blindness", you're fooling yourself.

              •  white dudes talk like that now, too (0+ / 0-)

                His delivery has intonations of southern black rhetoric, and if you don't catch it you need to spend more time in this country.

                i agree that he does employ that mode fairly often - for instance his "yes we can" speech - and it's pretty obvious to many of us.  although at the same time it's not totally in your face.

                but it's also true that a large number of white guys talk that way now too. even - or perhaps especially - in the urban south.  and anyone who hasn't caught that should spend more time with the under-45 crowd in this country.

                l'audace! l'audace! toujours l'audace!

                by zeke L on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 10:02:18 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  He speaks brilliantly with some coded terms (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              gladkov

              that you would get if you read the black press.

              "Let all the dreamers wake the nation." -- Carly Simon

              by Cream City on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 08:31:27 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  but using coded terms (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                Azdak

                isn't really "talking about race." If Obama ever became explicit, the MSM would rip him to shreds. Again, I'm not saying there isn't a lot of misogyny in the media, but I reject the notion that Clinton somehow hasn't worse.

                In general, I think it's counteproductive to be having these arguments about which oppressed minority is the "most oppressed" and should be getting priority treatment in any abstract decisions about who to support. Now, if we had a transgender Arab Muslim in the race, such judgments might be a little easier, but even then, I don't think it's productive or even ethical to be using that as the central criteria.

                •  You don't understand what I mean (0+ / 0-)

                  by coded terms in the black press -- which the msm would not know when they see them, either . . . because they haven't reported on them yet, and they're there.

                  "Let all the dreamers wake the nation." -- Carly Simon

                  by Cream City on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 10:53:04 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Gender does matter (4+ / 0-)

            Yeah, gender matters. Don't shift the debate to make it seem like I don't believe that. And as for "Steinem was right that Obama is perceived as a hero for talking abour race while Clinton is seen as a divider for merely being a woman," where have I said different?

            Just don't make your vote based on it if you want a good president. Common sense.

            Hillary is perfectly qualified to be president without this argument -- vote for her, she's a woman and, more importantly, not a man -- an argument that will only lose her support. It's completely superfluous and hypocritical.

            it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses | Buy M.I.A.'s Kala! (No, really. Please!)

            by Addison on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 07:58:24 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Identity Politics is Vapid and Empty (0+ / 0-)

              It's the dumbest reason to support a candidate:  because of biology!

              What leads you to believe that Hillary is in any way a "gender warrior" for the feminine?    

            •  The same argument could be used for Obama, (3+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              DMiller, Limelite, gustynpip

              vote for me because I'm Black.  

              His resume is sorely lacking, yet he's put himself in this race in spite of it.  It smacks of a sense of entitlement.  If his campaign implodes, it will be because he jumped too soon and it's a shame, because he truly has a gift.  

              But seriously, he has less experience at the national level than anyone who's ever run for President and the Republicans will discredit him for it in the General. When they replay his naive answers on foreign policy from the debates and convince the electorate that he doesn't have a clue what it takes to protect them, moderate Democrats and Indies will jump ship or stay home.  Terrorism is still a big issue, and it's the Republicans' ace-in-the-hole.

              That said, overall, I agree with this post.  One thing I've learned in this election - in America, sexism trumps racism big-time.  At least we're making progress somewhere.

              •  "Less experience at the national level (0+ / 0-)

                than anyone who's ever run for President..."

                Huh?

                How many Governors have been elected President? How much 'national experience' did they have? (I won't even mention another "inexperienced" politician from Illinois who became President.)

                How much more experience does Hillary have?  She was elected to the Senate in 2000, her first elected position ever.  Obama has been an elected official for longer than she has.

                Her candidacy is fueled in large part by the political machine built during Bill's Presidency.  

                And please don't talk about a "sense of entitlement" as it pertains to Obama when you're supporting Hillary.  Please.

                Her entire campaign was built around the concept of inevitability, of her entitlement to receive the Democratic nod.  Obama has been fighting tooth and nail for every vote he gets, not riding the coattails of his wife like Hillary's doing.

                Also, shame on Bill Clinton, the presumptive head of our party, injecting himself into this race on behalf of Hillary by making ridiculous and childish accusations against Obama.  He has sullied his reputation in my mind.

                •  Does the National Governor's Association ring a (0+ / 0-)

                  bell?  Governors meet frequently to shape the national agenda.    

                  To compare Obama to Lincoln is ludicrous!  The mid- 1800's did not pose the global issues we now face and Lincoln was fighting a domestic war.  

                  I'm not trying to convert you, I'm backing Clinton because even if she wasn't elected, there's no way that she didn't get a clue about how to run this country during eight years in the White House.  She's world-travelled and highly respected around the world.  And, she handily won reelection in NY.  I know you don't, but someone must think she's competent.  

              •  Except that almost no one is making that argument (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                cato

                and this is at least the third diary in the last couple of days that is based on the Steinem op-ed.

                Are you seriously suggesting that the main reason Obama is being accepted as a major candidate is because he is black?

                And please quote the published criteria for when it is OK to run for president. The Constitution that I know of lists only age and citizenship requirements. Do you have another Constitution that contains more information? Your use of the term "entitlement" is curious and has some disturbing undertones that I would prefer to believe you are unaware of.

                As is use of the term "put himself in this race". Obama's got an ego, like anybody else who runs for President has to have--but many people, both at the grass roots and within the Democratic Party--called on him to run because they recognized his unique abilities and the unique opportunity that the 2008 election represented to change America.

                Let the word go forth from this time and place...that the torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans--Obama '08

                by Azdak on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 10:10:39 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Many people also advised him to wait (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  Limelite

                  until he had more experience.  Like I said, his choice, no one twisted his arm.  And your thinly-vieled attempt to label me as racist, is pathetic.  I'm entitled to my opinion with no apologies to you.  

                  Before this race is over, anyone who criticizes Obama will be accused of racism.  It's already happening.  I never thought I'd live to see Bill Clinton, of all people, called racist, but I have,  several times in the past few days.  It's all so sad.  How will this  unite us?

          •  Libby Dole is a stupid Republican (9+ / 0-)

            I will vote against her because I don't vote for republicans and I don't vote for stupid.

            "It's the planet, stupid."

            by FishOutofWater on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 07:58:34 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  She's disappointed me too. (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              FishOutofWater

              She seems like a nice lady, but her positions are stupid.  Why can't she be a statesperson and vote her conscience?  Liddy talks just like the Rethug political hacks.

              Liddy....get a moral compass and start looking out for regular working families!!

              -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

              by sunbro on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 08:43:52 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  can't agree (0+ / 0-)

            with that on the whole.  some perceive Obama as heroic, sure, maybe those specific people find Clinton divisive because she calls him "naive and inexperienced" and warns that the terrorists are coming! after the election and she'll be best able to handle it, whatever that means.  the American people are divided about the Clintons on the whole. people do like them, but Bill Clinton seriously did a lot of damage to our party, certainly cost Al Gore the 2000 election, created an environment ripe for what we've seen happen with his own cursory and unnecessary forays into unnecessary levels of Executive power.

            of course this is a terribly sexist country and we need female leaders.  not just 'should have some' but need a proportionate number, and we certainly don't have that.  gender and race always matter.  but doesn't policy matter most?  doesn't record matter most?  no matter what, I still have to vote based on those things as the most important factors.  

          •  While I agree (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            Hens Teeth

            that having the first female POTUS would affect how we view women in positions of power, I don't necessarily believe that having a woman POTUS will "end the war". As a woman I support Edwards for many reasons. His proposals will level the playing field for women and lift them out of poverty. I feel that leveling the playing will actually do more for women in this country than just having a woman POTUS. If we give millions of women better opportunities in America, we're more likely to see more women CEO's...and more female politicians.  

            Netroots Director for Oregon Senate Candidate Jeff Merkley

            by sarahlane on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 08:59:53 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  no less than race matters (0+ / 0-)

            I agree with Steinem for the most part and thought the attacks on Hillary from the media have been way over the top. Still, HRC acts as if SHE is the one with masculinity to prove, just take a look at all the attacks on Obama at her website compared to the paucity of the opposite on Obama's website. Her Iraq war vote which she refuses to deal with is still more evidence of this and Bill Clinton misrepresenting Obama's record on Iraq doesn't help anyone. I support Obama because he's gotten these issues right from day one.

            In short, I won't vote for Hillary because she's a woman anymore than I would vote for Obama because he's African-American. She doesn't get the small money donors because not as many ordinary people are willing to support her financially. That's democracy the way it should be, it's the big money types that need to bow out.

        •  you got it dorko (0+ / 0-)

          that's the way it has been swung towards men for millenia...and look where it's got us.

          McCheney campaigns on fear, just like Bush did.

          by coigue on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 08:37:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Okay... (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            Hens Teeth

            If you can vote for women because they're more "sympathetic," there's no logical way you can get pissed at people NOT voting for men because they're too "emotional." If you decide to vote based on a stereotype, you can't get pissed at other people doing the same thing just because THEIR stereotype is "bad."

            Avoid the problem: vote the issues.

            it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses | Buy M.I.A.'s Kala! (No, really. Please!)

            by Addison on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 08:44:47 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Errata (0+ / 0-)

              Errata:

              there's no logical way you can get pissed at people NOT voting for women because they're too "emotional."

              it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses | Buy M.I.A.'s Kala! (No, really. Please!)

              by Addison on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 08:45:53 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Are you really THIS dense? (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Limelite, gustynpip

              You sound like those whiners who cry about "reverse racism"

              and your little characterizations in quotes are insulting.

              The fact is, Hil is a woman, a mother, and a long-time advocate for women's and children's rights. She isn't a self-hating Phyllis-Schaffley type. She is a liberal with a long history.

              Why is the Democratic party predominately female?

              As a woman, can I separate my liberalism from my  femaleness.? No. It's all part of who I am. And it is a part of Hillary.

              Frankly if it wasn't an issue, we would not be seeing so much blatant sexism on the cable news channels. She is stirring up the waters, and sexism is rising to the public eye.

              McCheney campaigns on fear, just like Bush did.

              by coigue on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 08:52:17 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Exactly. It's late modern feminist theory. (0+ / 0-)

          Give me what I want when I want it or you are a misogynist. P.S. Men suck and are the system. Girl power!

          I hear its a great way to make policy decisions.

          -9.63, 0.00
          Anti-groupthink is the groupthink of the anti-groupthink group.

          by nobody at all on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:09:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Wrapped everything up in one little nutshell (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            tabbycat in tenn, Limelite

            there.  Your sure understand feminism and I'm real proud of all the attention you've paid to the current situation so you're aware that women are no longer ever discriminated against and they just whine and complain and pretend to be when they're upset because they didn't get their hot cocoa as quickly as they want it.  You are one bright dude!

    •  Huh? (9+ / 0-)

      Your post wasn't well articulated.  I'm sorry if this makes men victims.  They've been victimized for so long, that it is about time someone paid attention to their woeful state.

      Seriously, I heard this on Hannity yesterday.  This is a crappy meme because it just serves to perpetuate the conservative framework that advocates tradional social arrangements.  

      I respectfully disagree with you.

      •  Here we go,... (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        DelRPCV, 0wn

        No, I'm not going to play the victim game. And don't you pretend that I am playing it just to score some cheap, banal point, please. Nice try, though.

        And what exactly is the crappy meme? That gender shouldn't be the deciding factor in who we choose as president? No, I think that's a wonderful meme.

        it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses | Buy M.I.A.'s Kala! (No, really. Please!)

        by Addison on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 07:54:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  To be absolutely clear... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      nobody at all

      I just want to be completely clear:

      My point is:

      If you say it's ok to vote FOR a woman because you believe women are all more "sympathetic" (or smarter, or whatever) than men...

      Then you believe it's ok for someone NOT vote for a women because they believe women are more "emotional" (or superfici