Daily Kos

Does the vote suppression attempt in NV change your view of Clinton?

Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 08:56:31 PM PDT

By now, I hope most Kossacks are aware of what is going on in Nevada. ABC News has a good rundown here.

In March 2007, the Nevada Democratic Party set up procedures for its Jan. 19 caucuses that ALL PARTIES agreed to, including supporters of Hillary Clinton. The idea of holding the caucus on a Saturday was to make it easier on most people to vote. The one obvious exception was hospitality workers on the Vegas Strip, who are at their busiest on Saturday. So for them special at-large caucus sites were arranged since they would not be able to go home to vote. Again, ALL SIDES agreed to this and there weren't any objections until Jan. 9.

On Jan. 9, the Culinary Workers Union endorsed Barack Obama. Two days later, leaders of the local Teachers Union who had personally endorsed Hillary Clinton (although the union itself had not officially done so) filed suit to try to remove the at-large caucus sites, potentially disenfranchising thousands of hotel and casino workers.

Asked about the situation, Hillary Clinton said:

I know about the lawsuit that has been filed and I hope that it can be resolved by the courts and by the state party because obviously we want as many people as possible to be able to participate that is the whole idea.

This is NOT obvious to me since I'm sure this lawsuit would be called off in an instant if Hillary asked her allies who filed it to stop -- something she has been careful NOT to do. (Again, this issue WAS "resolved" 10 months ago, with the approval of all involved.)

This is the same Hillary Clinton who was VERY concerned about how people might have been disenfranchised in Iowa:

"You have a limited period of time on one day to have your voices heard," Clinton said after her Iowa caucus loss.... "That is troubling to me. You know in a situation of a caucus, people who work during that time -- they're disenfranchised. People who can't be in the state or who are in the military, like the son of the woman who was here who is serving in the Air Force, they cannot be present."

In light of the current situation, I will let others assess the sincerity of her concern.

There are those on this site who will use all forms of sophistry to try to defend this indefensible, nakedly Rove-Republican attempt at voter disenfranchisement. However, I have to think after all we've been through in the last 8 years these tactics turn most progressives' stomachs.

So I would like to get a sense of just how this is playing in our community. Please vote in the poll below, and if you would like to get a decent sample size on the poll, please consider recommending so the Monday morning crowd gets their chance to weigh in.

P.S. If anything, I think I've given Hillary the benefit of the doubt in my recounting of this story. Many here have suggested that her campaign was likely behind the suit, using her supporters in Nevada to do it for them to give her plausible deniability (and allowing her not to have to expend campaign funds on the suit). If true, this would hardly be the first time Hillary has used "surrogates" to do her dirty work for her, as Bob Johnson notes in his current recommended diary.

Poll

Does the story in Nevada change your view of Clinton?

35%88 votes
40%101 votes
3%8 votes
1%5 votes
3%8 votes
5%14 votes
1%3 votes
9%23 votes
0%1 votes

| 251 votes | Vote | Results

Tags: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, 2008 elections, dirty tricks, voter disenfranchisement, Nevada, caucus, president, primaries, Democrats (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 84 comments

  •  Tips? Thoughts? (26+ / 0-)

    "We are the ones we have been waiting for" --Barack Obama reminding us we have to hold him accountable.

    by Jim in Chicago on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 08:57:25 PM PDT

  •  It does not... (0+ / 0-)

    ...change my view of Senator Clinton.

    :-)

    It ain't called paranoia - when they're really out to get you. 6 points.

    by Jaime Frontero on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 09:00:03 PM PDT

  •  No my views have not changed.... (10+ / 0-)

    I always knew Hillary would stoop this low to win an election at any cost.

  •  Reinforces my view rather than changes it. (6+ / 0-)

    This is same old same old crap from Clintonia.

    "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex" Dwight D. Eisenhower

    by bobdevo on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 09:03:42 PM PDT

  •  The HRC haters (3+ / 0-)

    give her too much credit.

    Do you really think that she orchestrated this lawsuit, that she is trying to suppress votes?

    Next thing, they'll be accusing her of bribing Mother Nature to provide good weather on NH primary day.  

    Today a slow news day or something?

    Another proud Clintonista opposing John McCain.

    by psychodrew on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 09:06:52 PM PDT

  •  Six months ago i would very much have (5+ / 0-)

    been surprised by these tactics. But observing her campaign's tactics of late, I'd say it is par for the course she is taking.

    Better beans and bacon in peace than cakes and ale in fear... Aesop

    by mr crabby on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 09:08:32 PM PDT

  •  I'll just say (8+ / 0-)

    I'm disappointed. No Democrat should use voter suppression tactics.

    Prof. McCain
    By Iraq, is Pakistan near,
    While Czechoslovakia's here.
    Sunnis are Shi'a,
    Sudan is Somalia,
    and Putin's the German premier.

    by Michael D on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 09:15:53 PM PDT

  •  How many errors in a single paragraph? (4+ / 0-)

    This is NOT obvious to me since I'm sure this lawsuit would be called off in an instant if Hillary asked her allies who filed it to stop -- something she has been careful NOT to do. (Again, this issue WAS "resolved" 10 months ago, with the approval of all involved.)

    Can somebody please prove, or even provide anything other than innuendo to indicate, this was brought by HRC allies?

    More important, upon what do you base the conclusion it was unanimously resolved 10 months ago? The heart of the issue is the At-Large precinct changes which came AFTER the plan was approved. Those changes create special rules for the at-large district which give more weight to votes, and create them in a way that works ONLY for a very limited group of voters, while many others suffers under identical restrictions throughout the State.  If you're genuinely curious, rather than just reveling in the hate you feel for one candidate or another, find the Exhibits to the Complaint, and look for Appendix C, "At-Large Precinct Caucus Rules and Procedures."

    I've posted this several times, but as it seems to go against the hysteria, nobody really gives a shit:

       Appendix C: At-Large Precinct Caucus Rules and Procedures

       The Nevada State Democratic Party is committed to increasing voter access to the Democratic caucuses on January 19, 2008, and has developed an aggressive plan to promote and engage its diverse population to attend the Caucuses. A significant portion of Nevada’s population consists of shift workers largely employed in Clark County on a 7 day per week 24 hour shift rotation. There is also a strong tradition in Clark County of facilitating the participation of shift workers in our unique "24/7"
    economy. Such accommodations have historically included "non-traditional" times and locations for polling sites easily accessible to shift workers. In planning the Caucuses, it was important to recognize the inherent difficulty for a shift worker to get back to their home precinct in order to participate in their Caucus.

       Working with Labor and management, the NSDP has identified and developed At-Large Precinct Caucus sites to accommodate the thousands of potential Caucus-goers working Saturday shifts during the 11:30 a.m. Caucus start time.

       At-Large Precincts must meet a stringent requirement of having 4,000 or more shift workers per site who could not otherwise take the time off to go to their home precincts.

       Currently, Clark County is the only county in Nevada which meets this threshold of optimum concentration.

       Following are the rules of engagement for the NSDP At-Large Precinct Caucuses:

       Attendance and Registration Requirements for At-Large Precinct Caucuses

          1. At-Large Precincts Caucuses are designed specifically to service shift workers who work during or within one hour of the Nevada Democratic Party Caucuses start-time (11:30am), and who could not return to their home precinct caucus in time to participate.

          2. Shift workers will be required to bring their Employer Identification card or badge to their assigned At-Large Precinct Caucus to be eligible to participate in the At-Large Precinct Caucus. The Employer ID card will serve as proof of shift worker status.

          3. Shift workers will also sign a declaration stating that they could not attend their home Precinct Caucus because they worked during or within one hour of the designated caucus start time.

       Locations and the total number of At-Large Precinct Caucuses

       • At-Large Precinct Caucuses will be created working with employers who have more then 4,000 employees in a contiguous area working on Saturday morning
       January 19th 2008.

       • The NSDP is planning 8-10 At-Large Precinct Caucus locations, all in Clark County.

       • Shift workers working within a 2.5 mile radius of each site will be allowed to attend their assigned At-Large Precinct Caucus.

       • At-Large Precinct Caucus locations will be determined working with the Clark County Democratic Party and the business community to determine optimum location and space, convenience and other such considerations.

       • At-Large Precinct locations will be arranged by October 31, 2007.

       • Individual work sites will be geographically assigned to a specific At-Large Precinct Caucus.

       Staff at the At-Large Precinct Caucus

       • At-Large Precinct Caucuses will be conducted ONLY by trained NSDP staff. NSDP staff will be assigned to each location by the Caucus Director to serve as
       the At-Large Precinct Caucus Chair but will not be permitted to participate in the caucus.

       • NSDP staff will manage the following At-Large Precinct Caucus activities:

          1. Registration

          2. Reporting the number of eligible caucus participants to the Nevada State Democratic Party

          3. Administration of the caucus meeting

          4. Apportionment and reporting of the delegates to the Nevada State Democratic Party

       The Apportionment of delegates for the At-Large Precinct Caucus

       • Doors will open at 10:30 a.m. due to anticipated attendance expected at the At Large Precinct Caucus sites.

       • NSDP staff will keep a running count of each eligible Caucus participant as they enter the At-Large Precinct Caucus. After the doors close, there will be a final count of eligible participants.

       • NSDP staff will call the Caucus to order at 11:30 a.m.

       o If attendees are still in line at 11:30 a.m. when the Caucus is called to order they will be allowed to sign in and participate in the Caucus. (this
       rule applies to all Caucus sites throughout Nevada)

       • NSDP staff will call in (via a specially directed phone line) the total number of eligible caucus participants to the Nevada State Democratic Party using the (1-800 caucus line).

       • NSDP staff will use the formula below based on the NRS to apportion delegates for the At-Large Precinct Caucus, and announce this number to the At Large
       Precinct Caucus participants.

       • The At Large Precinct Caucus will otherwise run exactly like the statewide Caucus system with delegates apportioned accordingly.

       _______________________________________

       Delegate Allocation Formula for At-Large Precinct Caucuses:

       • If the total number of Democrats in attendance at the At-Large Precinct Caucus does not exceed 400, divide the total number of attendees by 5. Based on
    attendance, the total number of delegates in these At-Large Precincts will range from 1 – 80.

       • If the total number of Democrats in attendance at the At-Large Precinct Caucus is between 401 and 600, divide the total number of attendees by 8. Based on attendance, the total number of delegates in these At-Large Precincts will range from 50 – 75.

       • If the total number of Democrats in attendance at the At-Large Precinct Caucus is between 601 and 800, divide the total number of attendees by 10. Based on attendance, the total number of delegates in these At-Large Precincts will range from 60 – 80.

       • If the total number of Democrats in attendance at the At-Large Precinct Caucus is between 801 and 1400, divide the total number of attendees by 15. Based on attendance, the total number of delegates in these At-Large Precincts will range from 53 – 93.

       • If the total number of Democrats in attendance at the At-Large Precinct Caucus is between 1401 and 2000, divide the total number of attendees by 20. Based on attendance, the total number of delegates in these At-Large Precincts will range from 70 – 100.

       • If the total number of Democrats in attendance at the At-Large Precinct Caucus is between 2001 and 3000, divide the total number of attendees by 30. Based on attendance, the total number of delegates in these At-Large Precincts will range from 67 – 100.

       • If the total number of Democrats in attendance at the At-Large Precinct Caucus is between 3001 and 4000, divide the total number of attendees by 35. Based on attendance, the total number of delegates in these At-Large Precincts will range from 86 – 114.

       • If the total number of Democrats in attendance at the At-Large Precinct Caucus exceeded 4000, divide the total number of attendees by 50. Based on
       attendance, the total number of delegates in these At-Large Precincts will be at least 80.

       This formula is the same one used to determine delegate apportionment in the Nevada Caucuses but instead of voter registration, it is based on attendance.

       Nevada’s working population is an important and vital part of the Democratic Party’s base. And, because of the unique workforce in Nevada, it is imperative to develop a system whereby working men and women are able to participate in the selection of their nominee for President of the United States. The Nevada State Democratic Party is committed to working with employers, labor and the business community, in a continued effort to expand participation so that democratic working voters in Nevada may have the same opportunities to register their preference as do those not constrained to a work site.

       The At-Large Precinct Caucus plan meets all of the necessary requirements of the NRS, Nevada State Democratic Party rules and by-laws and follows the Caucus delegate apportionment formula determined by the state. Further, the NSDP worked closely with the Nevada Attorney General’s office to make sure that the appropriate rules are followed.

    Done with politics for the night? Have a nice glass of wine with Two Days per Bottle.

    by dhonig on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 09:25:34 PM PDT

    •  "Can somebody please prove, or even provide (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      CKDexterHaven, haruki, Shhs

      anything other than innuendo to indicate, this was brought by HRC allies?"

      Um, how about the very first paragraph of the ABC News story I linked?

      Two days after a key Nevada union of casino employees endorsed Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, allies of Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, filed a lawsuit to block the special "at-large" casino precincts set up months ago for those very casino employees.

      :-0

      "We are the ones we have been waiting for" --Barack Obama reminding us we have to hold him accountable.

      by Jim in Chicago on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 09:46:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  ABC?!!? (0+ / 0-)

        yes, they said it. However, none of the plaintiffs are tied to HRC in any way.  They are not contributors. v None have endorsed her, or even spoken on her behalf. Of course, if media accusations are now evidence, we are living in an entirely different world.  

        Done with politics for the night? Have a nice glass of wine with Two Days per Bottle.

        by dhonig on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 03:26:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  As I said before... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      askew

      Your position is legally inane. The voters most likely to have lower representation are the at-large ones, not the normal caucus ones.

      •  Nope (0+ / 0-)

        not true. In fact, you could quite easily argue (and I'm sure the plaintiffs will) that at-large voters get DOUBLE credit for voting.  You see, regular precincts are weighted based upon voter registration.  At-large precincts are weighted based upon attendance.  So if Voter Bob is registered in Precinct A, and votes in at-large precinct 1, his vote is weighted and counted for BOTH PRECINCTS.

        As for "legally inane," well, I'm pretty confident in the quality of my legal analysis.  Your analysis purported to a mathematical one, not a legal one.  I don't know if you're qualified to evaluate my legal opinions (you might be, I really don't know), but three States, a dozen or more federal district courts, three federal circuit courts, and the United States Supreme Court have all, at one time or another, given the thumbs up to my legal analysis.

        Done with politics for the night? Have a nice glass of wine with Two Days per Bottle.

        by dhonig on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 04:06:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Uh. No. (0+ / 0-)

          Them being double-counted is another argument AGAINST the plaintiff's side of the suit. They are being counted twice, but they aren't voting in both caucuses, further diluting their vote because the regular precincts are inflated by them.

          Being counted twice hurts the at-large caucusers. They are getting screwed as the system stands. Removing the at-large caucuses just screws them harder.

  •  No (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    cwaltz, wobbledon, GunLovinDem, Shhs

    She's an old-time, politics-as-usual, "you gotta win first" candidate. Always was, always will be. If this changes anyone's view of her, they've been living under a rock for the last 15 years.

  •  Rarely comment, however (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    askew, Jim in Chicago, wobbledon, haruki

    Am a veteran high school teacher here in Clark County Nevada--got an automated reply today from an e-mail I sent to my beloved State Education Association yesterday questioning upon whose authority did the Association become a party to the suppression lawsuit.  The reply basically siad that the Teacher's Association just wanted to protect the rights of Janitorial Staff to participate in the caucus also and hope that I would support the rights of all to have special privileges when it came to caucus participation.  My days as a dues paying member are numbered

  •  No. My opinion of her was already low. (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    latts, wobbledon, Shhs

    Months ago, I called her out as a machine candidate. Now she's being caught acting like one.

    John McCain's Straight Talk Express runs on fossil fuels.

    by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 09:49:38 PM PDT

  •  No change here (0+ / 0-)

    Then again I'm voting edwards so I find the Obama / Hillary debacle rather tiring.

  •  Lowers it, and yes that was possible. eom (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Jim in Chicago

    "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

    by Geekesque on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 10:06:12 PM PDT

  •  To all the Clinton camp deniers... (4+ / 0-)

    Those promoting this suit are Clinton surrogates:

    ABC News:

    But the lawsuit, filed by six Nevada Democrats and the Nevada State Education Association teachers' union -- whose deputy executive director, Debbie Cahill, is a member of Clinton’s Nevada Women’s Leadership Council  -- seeks to prevent those At-Large Districts from meeting in next Saturday's caucuses.

    ...

    The state party approved the at-large precincts at its Nevada State Democratic Party's State Central Committee meeting on March 31, 2007.

    According to those minutes and attendance records of the obtained by ABC News (Click HERE), four plaintiffs now suing the state party to stop these "at-large" precincts from convening were in attendance: Clark Party Second Vice Chair Vicki Birkland and John Birkland, Party Third Vice Chair Dwayne Chesnut and Clark County Public Administrator John Cahill.

    ...

    The move by the Nevada State Education Association -- NSEA president Lynn Warne is also a plaintiff in the lawsuit -- is widely seen within Nevada political circles as a hardball effort by Clinton allies to block votes from the 60,000-member Culinary Workers Union Local 226, which endorsed Obama on January 9, an hotly-contested endorsement.

    There are more cites, as well, but seeing as Clinton stands to be the beneficiary and Obama the damaged party should the suit prove successful is further proof.

    The deniers can play the classic Clinton game that has become the hallmark of her campaign - "We don't know anything about it" -- but no one is buying it.

    It does provide some levity for the rest of us.

    Thanks.

  •  Free and Fair Elections? (0+ / 0-)

    I just realized that if I want to find out what this diary is about...something about NV....I'm not going to get it on Daily Kos....too much polarization, too many emotional comments rather than factual contributions, so I don't know.

    I recently learned that PRIMARY ELECTIONS  don't have the same legal status or protections that say, federal elections do.

    My #1 concern about vote suppression is what the RNC has done, as reported by Greg Palast and others. Not political but ILLEGAL.

    On voting:
    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    Best Diary of the Year? http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/23/03912/3990

    by LNK on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:35:51 PM PDT

  •  The Diarist is VERY Misleading (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    dhonig

    The teachers union that is a prty to the suit has not endorsed Hillary.  Hillary also has many supporters among the culinary workers and therefore she has no interest in alienating them.  This is an internal competition among labor unions for influence within the Democratic party.  As the situation currently stands, the culinary workers union has the ability to vote at work, which virtually no one else has.  They are addressing the matter in court and with the Nevada Democratic Party.

    The diarist's leap to judgment about Hillary only underscores the anti-Hillary bias on this site, and also the blind eye shown by many that Obama is just as dirty as any other politician.

    Alternative rock with something to say: http://www.myspace.com/globalshakedown

    by khyber900 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 01:06:40 AM PDT

  •  What ARE the actual arguments in the suit? (0+ / 0-)

    because nobody actually discusses them here.  Please remember, first, that caucuses are very short, time-specific, events, rather than all day primaries.  ANYBODY stuck at work from 11:00 to Noon or so on election day can not participate.

    1. equal protection violation by at-large district creation.  If you look at the long quote I posted above, you will see that the at-large districts were defined in a way to ONLY qualify for large Vegas casinos.  There are shift workers throughout the State, and there are casinos elsewhere (Reno, for example), but by creating a 4,000 person threshold they quite clearly chose to favor one group of shift workers over all others.
    1. Over-value of voting in at-large precincts, therefore under-valuing other votes:

      a. in regular precincts, the precinct gets one delegate per 50 registered voters.  

      b. in the at-large precincts, it gets one delegate per X number of VOTERS IN THE CAUCUS, with the number changing based upon how many vote, as few as 1 per FIVE, as many as one per 50.  The example in the suit, while extreme, is valid- compare a county with 400 registered Democrats to an at-large vote of 400.  The at-large gets 80 delegates, the county gets 8, no matter how many vote.  The numbers change depending upon the number of registered Democrats in a precinct and the number of at-large voters, but they don't become equal until 4,000 voters attend the at-large caucus.  Given that the threshold to qualify for an at-large caucus is 400, that would require 100% attendance.  Unlikely.

    1. Double-counting of votes- regular precincts are given delegates based upon registered Democrats.  At-large precincts are assigned delegates based upon attendance. Therefore, if Voter Bob votes at large he registration is counted to value delegates in his precinct, whether he votes or not, while his vote is AGAIN counted in the at-large precinct.  

    Also please note, contrary to the diary's accusations, the plan (according to the complaint) was amended AFTER everybody agreed  to it. Additionally, while the candidates agreed to it, the teachers' union is not a candidate. It is its own entity looking out for its own workers.

    Whatever you think of the timing of the suit, it seems worthwhile to actually have some understanding of the allegations before making the most vehement objections.

    Done with politics for the night? Have a nice glass of wine with Two Days per Bottle.

    by dhonig on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 04:29:12 AM PDT

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