The Penalty for Being "Uncooperative"? Death.

At some point, someone will have to spend some time and research how many people are being "tazed" to death by cops in situations where potentially lethal force is not called for.

Here's one from yesterday in Minnesota.  An "uncooperative motorist", who had been in a traffic accident, was "brought under control" with a tazer.

Troopers responded to a crash about 5 p.m. Tuesday on Interstate 694 near Silver Lake Road in New Brighton and used a stun gun to bring the driver under control, according to a Public Safety Department news release.

Allina Medical Transportation spokesman Tim Burke said the man, who was in his 20s, was breathing but unconscious when paramedics arrived at the scene. He was pronounced dead at Unity Hospital in Fridley.

We don't really know what happened, but the five cops who were at the scene are all on administrative leave.  Given that this is the State Patrol, that creates quite a whole in the work rotation.

But, this is not what I want from my government.  They have five officers on the scene with a 20-something kid who has just been in an accident.

Maybe the kid was in shock?  Maybe he was freaked out?  Maybe he was having a bad day?  But, do we really have to resort to what amounts to a lethal cattle prod in order to retrain and subdue him?

This level of violence and aggressive handling of suspects--and we don't even know that he was a suspect--creates far more problems in our society than it resolves.  

As a citizen, I see no good reason why they have to use any form of weapon on a motorist who is upset about a traffic accident.  For God sakes, they have his car, license and plate number right in front of them.  Let the kid run into the woods if he has to, but why do something so extreme that he ends up dead?

•  And why exactly

  is the phrase--"Don't taze me bro' considered to be such great humor by the news media?

  There's some sick torture sentiment deep in America's psyche.

  by Mi Corazon on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 09:14:28 PM PDT

  •  Agreed

    Something dark,cancerous and sociopathic that takes glee in hurting the weak.

    by Timothy Scriven on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 09:17:47 PM PDT

  •  Yes

    There's a combination of authoritarianism and sadism,  combined with the foolhardy notion that one is exempt from the same abuses of power one applauds when perpetrated on others.  IN general Americans have ceased thinking like citizens and have adopted the mentality of subjects, of serfs, who identify more with the Lordship they can never be rather than with their fellow serfs whose occupy the same humble station.

    by ActivistGuy on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 09:20:13 PM PDT

•  Tazers are lethal weapons

  And need to be treated as such.  The same laws that restrict the use and possession of firearms must be applied to Tazers.

  by El Yoss on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 09:17:44 PM PDT

  •  Law enforcement officers have become reluctant

    to physically restrain violent individuals. They seem not to want to risk personal injury when they can use the "nonlethal" Taser to control violent situations.
        By the way, I think "uncooperative" in this context was a euphemism used in the police report for a guy who had flipped out and was actively or potentially violent. I don't think this was a situation of sadistic authority figures; the Minnesota State Patrol is a very professional organization. But I do think that five officers can "swarm" one guy fairly easily and restrain him without using near-lethal, or in this case apparently lethal, force. It requires, though, that the officers be willing to risk the possibility that the guy being swarmed might get one or two "good" pokes at the first officer in, and an officer might sustain an injury.

    We are men of action; lies do not become us.

    by ER Doc on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 09:32:21 PM PDT

    •  Any law enforcement agent who is unwilling to

      take this risk...

      It requires, though, that the officers be willing to risk the possibility that the guy being swarmed might get one or two "good" pokes at the first officer in, and an officer might sustain an injury

      should be restricted from possessing any kind of weapon.

      An elderly woman, with dementia, confined to a wheelchair?  A newly arrived foreigner who speaks no English... experiencing anxiety at being confined for hours in an airport lounge (with no airport authority pursuing common sense measures to solve this communication problem)?  A young man 'flipping out' (the cause for this unknown) at the scene of a traffic accident?  These fatal incidents, and the many more like them, are inexcusable.  Being uncooperative, agitated, vocally inappropriate and other human reactions to stressful situations are NOT acceptable reasons for a person to be assaulted with potentially lethal weapons.

      by 417els on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 10:48:20 PM PDT

      •  Ditto. These things were handled for years w/o

        tazers.  What we know is that police have a punishment mode now;  they thirst for the opportunity to inflict that punishment.

        by yoduuuh do or do not on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 11:30:36 PM PDT

    •  I know how to do a take-down of a violent person.

      I used to work in a psychiatric hospital.  Five people who are properly trained can take down and restrain even very large, very strong people.  You just have to know how it is done.  I've been bruised a few times by a flailing limb of the person being restrained, but nothing worse than that. You get the straps and strait jacket on, that person cannot do much to hurt anyone. I'm not huge, and I have a bum wrist, but I could, with four other people, take down and restrain six foot tall, 250 pound, really angry, mentally ill teenagers. Have done it many times.  

      Handcuff both wrists and ankles, and your suspect won't be able to do much harm.  Five police officers should be able to accomplish that without breaking a sweat.

      by Dar Nirron on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 12:52:40 AM PDT

  •  But you can get them to match...

    ... your outfit! That makes them okay.

    by highacidity on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 09:32:56 PM PDT

    •  Don't forget the MP3 player! nt

      by Dr Colossus on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 10:35:37 PM PDT

    •  Hey? Might be a profitable nich market for this:

      Hot pink A-Kay Forty-seven with a sound system that blares "Wipe-out!" when it's in a horizontal position?

      by 417els on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 11:10:34 PM PDT

•  Wow.

  Tasers were meant to be used in serious situations where a police officer would have otherwise used a gun to shoot a criminal/suspect/dangerous person.

  The idea was that instead of having to use a gun which would kill or maim a criminal/suspect/dangerous person, a cop could use the taser instead.

  The taser was meant to be a more humane way of disabling someone in a situation where a cop would have otherwise made the grave decision to use their service pistol. Note that I said "more humane" not "humane". Better than getting a 9mm bullet in the chest but nothing that someone would want to go through, ever.

  So, if a cop would not consider using a firearm against an "uncooperative" person they should not use or consider using a taser.

  by Rex Manning on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 09:47:57 PM PDT

•  What the hell has happened to Minnesota?

  It used to be such a pleasant, civil place.

  by shigeru on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 10:19:03 PM PDT

•  It's not the voltage, its the amps

  The body's resistance to electricity varies greatly from location to location on you body, from person to person, from minute to minute because of your blood chemistry, by age, by sex, and by how hard the contacts are being pressed into the skin.  That is where the problem lies.  A "dumb" device like a tazer doesn't take all of these variables into account.  A agitated person who has worked up a sweat and may have slightly acidic blood or slightly salty blood may have a much lower electrical resistance and thus be more at a much higher risk of getting a lethal shock.  If the police officer is aggitated and really pushed the tazer into the targets flesh it could cause the resistance to drop enough for a fatal electrocution, assuming the current passed through the targets heart.  Otherwise it might cause third degree burns which don't heal easily.  It's a very fine line between painful, 40-60 milliamps, severly painful, 60-90 milliamps, and lethal, 500 milliamps.

  Getting shocked in your dry hands:
  50kV / 1M Ohm = 5 milliamps   very mild shock

  Getting shocked in you wet hands:
  50kV / 15k Ohm = 3 Amps    severe pain/burns/death

  by Dr Colossus on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 10:35:06 PM PDT

  •  What about people with medical problems?

    Like Cheney's implanted heart device?  People with undiagnosed physical conditions? Those susceptible to seizures?

    Aren't there a lot of possibilities for the use of tasers resulting in death?

    by 417els on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 11:02:43 PM PDT

    •  Accident adrenaline rush is already a risk.

      There is usually no attempt to talk these people down but hostile orders for immediate response which only provoke more anxiety.

      by yoduuuh do or do not on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 11:33:12 PM PDT

•  Look at Missoula, Montana

  An ongoing court drama in Missoula, Montana involving TASER guns:

  A 67-year old retired doctor (Walt Peschel, he has delivered about half the babies born in this town over the last 35 years) was TASERed by the Missoula City Police.

  One of his former patients was suicidal and had a gun to her head. Walt arrived before the cops did, and he was calmly talking to her. The cops show up, tell him to get away, he told them who he was and to let him continue talking to her. So they TASERed him.

  Now it gets interesting: turns out TASER guns have a register every time they are used. But the register in this gun was erased, so the police dept says he needs to prove that he was TASERed. OK, his lawyers asked to see the dash-cam. Ooops, it got erased too. Yesterday in court the Police Depts. own IT specialist admitted that the only way to erase it was on purpose (i.e. it cannot be done by accident).

  Naturally Walt is suing. He ended in the hospital for three days. He was a 67-year old man, but these guys had to use the TASER. Come on...

  The policemen involved have been placed on paid (WTF ?) administrative leave, and yesterday in court pleaded the 5th amendment.

  BTW: Dr. Walt Peschel was my docter for many years, he is a fine man.

  Oh, and the suicidal woman ? She blew brains out after the cops TASERed Walt.

  by exNavalOfficer on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 11:08:10 PM PDT

  •  Had not read/heard about this one, eNO. How many

    other TASER "incidents" are floating around the US unknown of except by those in the local area?

    by 417els on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 11:27:02 PM PDT

  •  OMG. It just gets worse. Bills to allow teachers

    to have tasers in the class room.  If I were a parent that would be the final straw.  I am sure LA is going there.

    by yoduuuh do or do not on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 11:35:19 PM PDT

  •  yeesh

    would you consider diarying this? sometime between 6 pm and 6 am, or on the weekend, so i can actually read it?

    this story needs widespread coverage, and this is the first i've heard of it.

    by Runs With Scissors on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:35:59 AM PDT

•  About a month ago 280 deaths from tazers

  was embedded deep in some story I was reading.  I remember it because I was shocked and felt that it was time somebody started paying attention and records were consolidated and made public.

  There have been at least 12 very public and unnecessary deaths, as far as, just reading them here.

  The woman who died in airport for disturbing the peace in route to a rehab has really bothered me.  Surely there were alternatives.

  by yoduuuh do or do not on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 11:27:57 PM PDT

  •  Don't think this woman was tasered, was she?

    Her death was "spontaneous suffocation" in an airport holding cell wasn't it?

    NOT that her death is any more acceptable.

    by 417els on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 11:33:23 PM PDT

    •  Yes, she was tasered before being handcuffed to

      the bench.  Supposedly, only once.  Supposedly, it had nothing to do with her death.  It is part of the reason for the detailed and doubled check by the family autopsy.  The whole series of events I read just does not hold water for me.  So far the public is still willing to swallow it.

      At this same time was the mother with the sippy cup pouring out the water.  All of these are simple authority and control issues.  The rage of these authority figures over not being granted blind obedience IMHO is the real issue.

      by yoduuuh do or do not on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 11:41:05 PM PDT

      •  Agreed. A fish rots from the head down...

        The two-headed mutant Decider-Commander-Blind-Fish has infected every sliver of our society with its decomposing stench.

        by 417els on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 12:29:30 AM PDT

•  Truly. I believe 7 yrs of BushCo inhumanity,

  corruption, exceptionalism and constant refusal to accept responsibility for the destruction they have so gleefully slathered across the entire globe has seeped into the American psyche.

  They have poisoned the well with their putrid toxic mentality.

  by 417els on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 11:51:05 PM PDT

•  Police State

  A whole roomful of Democrats sat still and watched while a man was TORTURED with a taser as he lay face down on the floor with his hands cuffed behind his back and a security guard sitting on top of him.

  What was his crime? Speaking at a public forum about election theft. He was making a statement, posing it to Sen. John Kerry for comment.

  The security guards weren't even disciplined.

  The tape of this incident was played on television and was available on the internet.

  The man was hauled off to JAIL and charged with a crime.

  Not long after this happened, davefromqueens, a poster here, was escorted out of a bookstore by police officers because Sean Hannity's goons made a false report to the police accusing him of disorderly conduct because he asked them why THEY don't volunteer to fight Bush's war.

  As he walked out of the bookstore, the rightwing mob there chanted "Tase him! Tase him!"

  I want my country back.

  by taraka das on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 12:22:56 AM PDT

•  As long as they market tasers as

  non-lethal, incidents like this will occur. We seem to have an unnatural affinity for euphemism.  We call dead civilians "collateral damage" so it doesn't surprise me in the least that law enforcement would continue to use these often-lethal weapons despite the accumulating evidence of their danger.  Calling them non-lethal also lowers the threshold for their use.

  by luckylizard on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:06:12 AM PDT

•  This case stinks regardless of taser safety

  From the link: "Lt. Mark Peterson of the State Patrol wouldn't describe the uncooperative behavior."

  From other similar stories, when the driver lived to tell the tale, the victim was impolite or something, "he talked back".   If there was any violent behavior to describe I think it would be.

  by Piotr on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:29:32 AM PDT