The "Magical Negro" argument

I've been dreading writing this diary, because I'm scared of the reaction it might get. At the same time, I keep thinking about this and maybe this will help me think through this issue.

Should race be a factor when choosing a candidate?

I asked myself this question: if Barack Obama were white, would I be as enthusiastic about him as I am? If he were white, would I still prefer him over John Edwards. I had to think about that for a while. I also had to discard the "polling" and "viability" argument against Edwards. If Obama and Edwards were polling at the same numbers and Obama were white, so I'm judging the candidates strictly on policy, character, leadership ability, message, etc., would I still pick Obama?

I finally decided yes, but it made the choice much, much harder. Which to me means that race is somehow a factor in my mind. Was I racist for not picking Edwards? There is something about the fact that Barack Obama is not white that makes me want to vote for him. And I began to ponder why. Is he the affirmative action President? Given two equally qualified candidates, do I want to pick the minority candidate to correct the social wrongs of the past? Yes, I think the answer to that is yes. Not too long ago they murdered black men in this country for looking at a white woman the "wrong" way. Shouldn't there be some deep sense in all of us that the wrongs of the past have not yet been righted? Is Barack Obama the white guilt candidate, the candidate of redemption, of contrition? Aren't these all incorrect reasons for picking a chief executive? I suspect they are poor reasons, but it sure feels good.

So then I think, is this some kind of prejudice? Am I attributing or projecting certain positive characteristics onto Barack simply because he's African-American? Am I assuming he will be sensitive on racial issues and advocate strongly for minorities in this country, just because of his race and for no other reason? Well perhaps that's not a question I have to consider  because his track record as a community organizer (his actions not his race) makes that point moot.

So finally I come down to the question of color blindness and the dreams of many, including myself that we will someday reach a time in this world when race is no longer even seen anymore, because we've progressed so much as humankind, or because we've interbred and everyone is 1/8th something or other and so nobody cares anymore. Does wanting a black person to be President run contrary to that ideal, that concept that we should be race and color blind? Am I crossways with my own values? I'm not sure I am any closer to an answer on some of these questions, but I do know that Barack Obama embodies my hopes and dreams for this country.

•  Is it National Concern Troll day? eom

  by Geekesque on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:09:32 PM PDT

  •  Upon further review, this isn't a troll,

    but the diary could use some rewording.

    by Geekesque on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:10:54 PM PDT

    •  Some of the Obama diaries...

      sound like Michael Richards' comedy club rant, but with more respectable phrasing.

      by Greasy Grant on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:11:54 PM PDT

      •  This is actually a supporter. eom

        by Geekesque on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:12:26 PM PDT

        •  True; I was referring to...

          some of the diaries that posted earlier today and in recent days.

          by Greasy Grant on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:13:46 PM PDT

        •  Your logic is showing:

          Non-supporter = Troll
          Supporter = Non-Troll

          Anywho, the title is totally unnecessary, and should be changed.

          by Sanuk on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:15:15 PM PDT

          •  I checked out his history.

            It was the content--'affirmative action' ' magical negro' that set my alarms off.

            by Geekesque on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:16:16 PM PDT

            •  "Magic Negro" didn't start w/ Rush...links

              Spike Lee coined the term to describe a type of stock carachter in film and fiction. The phrase has since drifted into the sociology and AA Studies corners of academia.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/...

              In movie circles, this figure is known as a "magic Negro," a term that dates back to the late 1950s, around the time Sidney Poitier sacrifices himself to save Tony Curtis in "The Defiant Ones." Spike Lee, who satirizes the stereotype in 2000's "Bamboozled," goes even further and denounces the stereotype as the "super-duper magical Negro."

              http://www.blackcommentator.com/...

              by Ericwmr on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:46:39 PM PDT

              •  This is not a movie. eom

                by Geekesque on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:52:50 PM PDT

                •  Really? I was confused...Take it up w/ Spike Lee

                  Relax...I'm not trying to stir this up.  All I'm saying is let's get past the knee-jerk reactions here.  Even if Rush Limbaugh provides a reason to suspect this diarist, we're just playing defense and right into the Limbaugh BS.

                  If you're that outraged by the phrase, take it up with Spike Lee.

                  by Ericwmr on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:04:28 PM PDT

                  •  Okay, but the 'affirmative action' line sucked nt

                    by Geekesque on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:19:29 PM PDT

                    •  why does the affirmative action line suck?

                      I don't understand.

                      by blzabub8 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:24:55 PM PDT

                      •  It's used by rightwingers to disparage

                        the accomplishments of African-Americans.

                        by Geekesque on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:32:21 PM PDT

                        •  so we shouldn't ever use the words

                          "affirmative action" because the right wing has twisted it around to disparage the accomplishments of African-Americans? Forget about what other people think the words mean, read the words yourself. I asked, is Obama the affirmative action candidate and I meant it exactly how Affirmative Action has traditionally been defined: as policies meant to redress the effects of past and current wrongful discrimination.

                          The right wing may have twisted this around to mean that a lesser qualified candidate is given favorable treatment over a more qualified candidate because of race, but I specifically stated in my diary:

                          Given two equally qualified candidates, do I want to pick the minority candidate to correct the social wrongs of the past?

                          by blzabub8 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:47:43 PM PDT

                        •  yea, that's another issue..

                          Certainly that AffAction line is open for debate. The only thing I wanted to address was the origin of "magic negro."  So far as I see it, Limbaugh shouldn't have the satisfaction of creating more hot buttons.

                          Still, ill intent or not with word choice, that diary title is begging for argument and controversy...LOL

                          by Ericwmr on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:52:09 PM PDT

              •  The Green Mile

                Anybody remember that movie staring Tom Hanks called the "The Green Mile"? I wonder if that's the kind of stuff Spike Lee is referring to.

                by William Domingo on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:12:06 PM PDT

                •  that's exactly the stuff he's referring to

                  though it goes back all through the history of American cinema

                  by blzabub8 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:13:44 PM PDT

                  •  not just cinema, Rush again fails to be original.

                    The term, stripped of Limbaugh's nasty little ditty which actually dealt more with Sharpton, is also used frequently to describe literary characters.  Spike Lee just created a catchy buzz-term for an idea that's been discussed throughout literature, sociology, and AA studies for quite a long time.

                    by Ericwmr on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:19:10 PM PDT

          •  Thats not at all fair to geekesque. n/t

            by bugscuffle on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:17:18 PM PDT

            •  LOL (nt)

              by prodigal on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:20:20 PM PDT

    •  Is there such a thing as a

      Comically Earnest Unintentional Troll?

      by bugscuffle on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:13:17 PM PDT

    •  Glad you retracted that, Geek.

      I was about to give you a time out.

      by Mother of Zeus on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:00:51 PM PDT

  •  I think you should really read my whole diary

    before commenting. All my diaries and comments are strongly in favor of my selected candidate. I ask these questions not to fuel the opposition but to question my own reasons for supporting a candidate, as every thoughtful person should. Blindly supporting someone makes for a dangerous, uncritical electorate. The fact that your comment posted 1 minute after my diary posted leads me to believe you did not read it before commenting.

    by blzabub8 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:14:28 PM PDT

    •  If you spent as much time as Geek does...

      ...hereabouts, you'd understand that most diaries that start the way yours start do not end well.  He corrected himself, in case you hadn't noticed.

      I like your diary.  It's fine.

      by The Termite on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:16:13 PM PDT

      •  I also don't think "magical negro" is what you...

        ...really want in your title block.

        You do know that's Rush's pet name for him, right?

        by The Termite on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:17:21 PM PDT

        •  yes, but Rush doesn't own the English language

          check out the origins of the term and you will see that it describes a rather complex phenomenon.

          by blzabub8 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:24:42 PM PDT

          •  have it your way

            by The Termite on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:28:05 PM PDT

          •  Limbaugh was lampooning

            a liberal columnist.  Sometimes I think liberals write columns thinking they'll only be read by liberals.

            by bugscuffle on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:30:02 PM PDT

      •  yes, our posts crossed in the night

        i think because he posts so damned fast!

        by blzabub8 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:22:43 PM PDT

    •  Your diary is very thoughtful

      I understand what you're saying.

      Nerves are a little stretched right now so have patience with all.

      by byteb on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:19:28 PM PDT

      •  thanks for the encouragement

        like my diary says, I was dreading the reaction I might get.

        by blzabub8 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:32:05 PM PDT

  •  "Mag. Negro" common term in film/academia. (links

    Sociologists, AA studies scholars, filmmakers, and literary discussions all frequently reference the idea of a "Magic/Magical" negro, either in discussing cultural stereotypes or in describing a common stock character in fiction.  Once again, Rush is anything but original.  A few links on the topic follow

    http://en.wikipedia.org/...

    In movie circles, this figure is known as a "magic Negro," a term that dates back to the late 1950s, around the time Sidney Poitier sacrifices himself to save Tony Curtis in "The Defiant Ones." Spike Lee, who satirizes the stereotype in 2000's "Bamboozled," goes even further and denounces the stereotype as the "super-duper magical Negro."

    http://www.blackcommentator.com/...

    by Ericwmr on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:34:09 PM PDT

•  Re-word the title. It is a turn off.

  Though the diary is pretty well written.

  by icebergslim on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:12:31 PM PDT

  •  Agreed

    The substance of the diary is good, but the title makes it look like it is a hit piece.  

    by smash artist on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:15:55 PM PDT

    •  What would you suggest?

      My quibble with it the title is that it has a specific meaning in slang.  It denotes the token minority that has the answers or the solutions to all of the main charaters' problems.  (Aside: Heh, according to the entry the term was popularized by Spike Lee, who derided the archetype of the "super-duper magical negro"[2] in 2001 while discussing films with students.)

      If anything, Obama is a main character as well.  If he has the answers or not is a mystery at this point.

      by linnen on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:30:15 PM PDT

  •  dig a little deeper about the title

    The term "Magical Negro" was popularized by Spike Lee for characterizing certain stereotypical black archetypes in Hollywood films, specifically black characters that embodied some special power. John Coffey's character in the Green Mile would be a good example. This concept gets to the root of the issue discussed in the diary and therefore I thought it would make a good title. I'm also not the first to write about Barack Obama as the "magical negro" candidate, David Ehrenstein of the LA Times did it first.

    by blzabub8 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:21:58 PM PDT

    •  asdf

      You beat me to my reply.

      Man, am I slow typist.  ^_^

      by linnen on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:31:49 PM PDT

    •  I know you're not the first

      But I question whether it will accomplish what you think or hope it will accomplish.  It is too clever by half, and always has been.

      by The Termite on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:32:41 PM PDT

      •  what exactly am I hoping the title will

        accomplish? cause people to read the diary and think about the issues I raise and help me come to some answers (and yes, many comments have been helpful in that regard). Some might skip the diary because they misinterpret the title...oh well.

        by blzabub8 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:41:25 PM PDT

        •  Like I said, your call

          My advice is free, and probably worth what you paid for it.

          by The Termite on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:47:08 PM PDT

        •  Headlines should grab you

          ...this one is a doozy and should pull (other) knee-jerkers in only to make them smile and think.

          Good diary.

          You don't say whether you yourself are black or white or brown or red or purple. Was this deliberate?
          It made me curious because I have pondered the same question as you and come up with a different answer: I'd be an Obama girl regardless of color or gender. And I'm white.

          Because of that, I had to ask myself if I cared if people voted for him just because he was black...call me an opportunist, but it wouldn't. Whatever it takes to get the job done.

          Keep up the great thinking.

          by eltee on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:19:12 PM PDT

          •  I didn't mention my race/ethnicity in the diary

            intentionally because I thought it shouldn't matter. I have since commented that I'm in fact Chinese-American. I think Asian Americans have an interesting perspective on the problems of racism in America (not that we all have the same perspective obviously). What I mean is that Asian-Americans share some of the experiences of prejudice and discrimination and hate-crime that African-Americans do, but I would argue much less so. Indentured servitude cannot be compared to slavery and temporary internment camps are not like segregation. But we share some common experiences.

            I've also had the opportunity to travel to China where suddenly, instead of frequently finding myself to be the only non-white person somewhere, I was now in a sea of Asian faces. It was interesting to compare the feeling of being a minority vs. the feeling of being a part of the majority. That's what I mean by an interesting perspective. I've had the opportunity to see a bit of the race issue from both sides.

            by blzabub8 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 08:22:12 PM PDT

    •  There's my answer

      I asked about the movie "The Green Mile" before I read down this far.

      by William Domingo on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:16:04 PM PDT

  •  Yeah!

    I came here looking for Little Jackie Draper, who lived by the sea, and all I found was a candidate diary.

    by drbloodaxe on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 06:15:29 PM PDT

•  I like Barack Obama

  I am also capable of admitting that one of the many reasons I like him is because I am enamored of the notion of seeing a black president in my lifetime.  It's okay for me to admit that, I think.

  I honestly don't know whether I'd feel differently about him now if he were white.  I certainly have no animosity toward white men, as I am one, and since I've also been a strong Edwards supporter (and continue to hope he does really well in NV).

  by The Termite on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:13:33 PM PDT

•  Musings and soul-searchings about blackness

  Jesus God, did we just end slavery this morning?

  Can we get on with issues of governing?

  by deben on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:18:45 PM PDT

  •  This is all so

    Norman Lear.

    by bugscuffle on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:19:47 PM PDT

    •  Like I always say,

      America could really use another "All in the Family" right about now!

      by tithonia on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:22:27 PM PDT

      •  Archie Bunker is

        one of my old time heros.  I was always cheering him on when he got into with Meathead.

        by bugscuffle on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:26:42 PM PDT

        •  "all time heroes," I meant.

          by bugscuffle on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:28:12 PM PDT

          •  Man, it seems to be my day to argue with people

            Archie Bunker was a bigot.  Carroll O'Connor, the actor was not, btw.

            In any case, talking about Barack's black skin would fill Archie Bunker's heart with glee.

            by deben on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:40:12 PM PDT

            •  Of course Archie was

              a bigot, and worse.  But the genius of the show (and O'Connor) was that you ended up liking him.  Mike Stivic was likable too, but when he started lecturing Archie about., his self-righteousness and condescension turned everybody off.  there's a huge lesson in that.

              by bugscuffle on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:43:37 PM PDT

              •  No bigot is among my "all time heroes."

                We part company at this point.

                by deben on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:59:38 PM PDT

                •  Bigot, from the American Heritage dictionary

                  One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

                  Sooo.... many of the people who frequent this site probably qualify, as no doubt, do most Americans of the first few decades of the country's existence, probably even more than a few of the Founding Fathers, and certainly almost every pilgrim that ever set foot in America.

                  (The online etymology dictionary also adds:
                  1598, from M.Fr. bigot, from O.Fr., supposedly a derogatory name for Normans, the old theory (not universally accepted) being that it springs from their frequent use of O.E. oath bi God. )

                  While the word has been strongly co-opted in the States to refer almost exclusively to race relations, the races originally in question were the French and the Normans.

                  by drbloodaxe on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 06:31:40 PM PDT

                  •  Let me clarify

                    No racial bigot is among my "all time heroes."  Since race is the subject of this diary.

                    I would not want to offend Kossacks who are obsessed with hating Normans.  And I myself certainly am bigoted against Republicans.

                    Sooo...  What's the conclusion?  Was my point falsely spoken or falsely interpreted?

                    by deben on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 08:24:00 PM PDT

                    •  Your choice

                      But if you'll read my comment again, you won't find any interpretation of your point at all.  Merely a clarification on a word frequently misused these days.

                      by drbloodaxe on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 07:42:50 AM PDT

                      •  At your word, that you were being

                        helpful at defining the term, OK.

                        FYI, my first thought at your comment was, "Here it comes...  Some racist is interjecting the 'everybody's a bigot in some sense' argument."  The discussion here is about racial bigots.  That's who I was imprecisely referring to.  I've got zero tolerance for racists.  Guess that makes me a bigot, according to AH Dictionary.  I'll swear on a Bible, though, that I don't hate the French.

                        by deben on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 01:58:03 PM PDT

                •  very well, then.

                  by bugscuffle on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 07:16:32 PM PDT

        •  Oh yeah, he was a great guy.

          Pfft.
          

          by kestrel9000 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:37:00 PM PDT

          •  That show...

            ...was amazingly subversive.  Archie Bunker did more to soften my grandparents' racism than anything else in their lives.  Beneath all his racist talking points was a man questioning his own beliefs and fears.  It's a credit to the show that the progress he made was slow and incremental.

            by The Termite on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 08:06:12 PM PDT

  •  I'm sorry, but the economic inequity slavery

    created in the United States still exists!  Dealing with that is still one of the issues of governing, and if we don't pay attention to it we will backslide.

    by oscarsdad on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:25:37 PM PDT

    •  You and I agree more than you know

      I don't know why we argue, oscarsdad.

      by deben on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:28:10 PM PDT

      •  Perhaps we are just looking at different

        sides of the same building, and it takes us a while to turn the corner and see each other.

        :)

        by oscarsdad on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:59:51 PM PDT

    •  I see you!!

      by oscarsmom on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:34:53 PM PDT

      •  Pay no mind to the man behind the cubicle n/t

        by oscarsdad on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 06:00:56 PM PDT

  •  America is ~4% of the global population

    Governing in a globalized world requires genuine introspection into how we fit into that matrix.

    People of color vastly outnumber Caucasians in the world. On what terms shall we all get along?

    That provides a core underpinning for most of the upcoming challenges America shall face.

    Obama's upbringing and heritage has caused him to think about such things more intensely than a great many of the rest of us.

    by Bill White on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:30:14 PM PDT

•  If wanted a black person to hold office

  and that was my only concern, or even a major concern, I would have voted for Michael Steele for the U.S. Senate in Maryland last year, and I would be ga ga over Clarence Thomas.  I am white, and I am hoping and praying that our next president is either a man of mixed race (we keep forgetting about Obama's mom), or a white woman.  (Edwards in my opinion is no longer in the running).  Either would be infinitely superior to that gaggle of white males in the other party.

  by Navy Vet Terp on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:21:59 PM PDT

  •  the diary doesn't ask whether race

    should be the only concern or the major concern. It asks, should race be a factor? In other words, should it be considered at all.

    by blzabub8 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:43:48 PM PDT

    •  It depends on the audience

      It could be just the icing on the cake for some and for others it could be the cake.

      Can we really say that people who don't vote for a candidate for the "right" reason shouldn't vote for them at all? C'mon....

      by eltee on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:44:07 PM PDT

      •  Well

        we can say that, but as long as they're voting for the right candidate(s) (ie any non-Repub), I'm keeping quiet.

        Not like us griping about it will make all the wingnuts stop voting after all.

        by drbloodaxe on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 06:17:53 PM PDT

•  Race can be a positive, as well as a negative

  Race means that Obama has a perspective of a minority - although he would have had that perspective simply from his years as a community organizer.   Still, race means he lives it every day, so it's an experience you can't just get fighting the good fight.

  Race means that others will perceive America differently, because we have a leader who not only looks like them, but has lived outside of America.  Who embodies the American Dream to so many outside of America.

  Race can be a weapon for change, because it destroys all of the stereotypes, deep-seated and unconscious, that existed about the ability of African Americans to lead a pluralistic society, about the competence of African Americans to do more than protest outside the gates.

  Race can be an inspriation for a dream, for the young African Amerian or Latino boy or girl who dreams in Kindergarten of being President, or for their parents, who might otherwise tell that boy or girl, get real, this is America, and you will never be President.

  You cannot presume you are colorblind when you go to the polls, that you do not have eyes and ears.  Barack Obama does not pretend he is colorless.   Do not diminish the historical nature of his candidacy out of a fear of white guilt.  Come to terms with that guilt, and realize that you can also view Barack's race through the lens of white pride.

  That said, he is not JUST a black candidate.  He is a man of unusual character, who has achieved extraordinary success in a brief period of time and has captured the imagination of not only a nation but a world.  His progressive record is strong and he has shown that he is a champion of progressive causes that serve to empower, not disenfranchise, ordinary people.  He also is the only viable candidate who opposed this unjust Iraq War from the beginninig.   I would hope that you would vote for him regardless of his background.

  by Greuben on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:22:22 PM PDT

  •  Thank you for the thoughtful response

    I agree with a lot of what you said and wrote about it in previous diaries. Just to clarify something, I was not talking about my white guilt. I happen to be Chinese. I was writing about our country's white guilt.

    by blzabub8 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:27:51 PM PDT

    •  Can Chinese Americans not have white guilt?

      I'm only half serious.

      by The Termite on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:38:02 PM PDT

      •  guilt by association? n/t

        by blzabub8 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:46:44 PM PDT

•  Two things in favor of this kind of racism.

  One, electing a capable, charismatic black man President, IMO, would do more than anything else could to change perceptions of the role of blacks in our society--except perhaps electing a capable, charismatic black woman.  It makes the statement that at least half of America is interested in quality over color--whether a pro-minority "racism" gets us there or not.  Consider it affirmative action at the Presidential level--not to elect an incapable black man, but if a capable black and a capable white are both available, opt for the black man because they have been at a disadvantage to this point in reaching the Presidency.  (I would make EXACTLY THE SAME argument in favor of Hillary over Edwards or Dodd or Kucinich or any white man, for the same reason.)

  Two, look at what is happening today with Limbaugh's racist comments.  They have created a furor; a furor AGAINST RACISM.  To some extent, I believe this blunts the strength of many attacks we know the Republicans will make against Obama.  Neither Edwards nor Clinton nor anyone else in the race has that kind of advantage.  It is an unfair advantage, to be sure; Obama did nothing to earn that advantage.  But why can't we have the unfair, situational advantage on our side for once???

  by oscarsdad on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:23:49 PM PDT

•  Affirmative Action is Not Racism

  The right has been very clever to frame the issue that way. They have framed that racism is being the mere differentiating of the races. Thus, this framing allows for true racial discrimination by denying a remedy for racial discrimination.

  Ironically, because the United States Supreme Court says that racial discrimination is worse than gender discrimination, goverment can employ more remedies to fight gender discrimination than gender discrimination! This is unbelievable logic, but conservatives have convinced even liberals that this crazy logic is normal.

  by BlueTide on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:23:56 PM PDT

  •  Corrections

    oops, I made some mistakes in my comments.

    In the comment above, the second paragraph should read:

    Ironically, because the United States Supreme Court says that racial discrimination is worse than gender discrimination, goverment can employ more remedies to fight gender discrimination than racial discrimination! This is unbelievable logic, but conservatives have convinced even liberals that this crazy logic is normal.

    by BlueTide on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:25:58 PM PDT

•  You're saying Obama is black?

  Take it back!

  by VelvetElvis on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:25:25 PM PDT

  •  Who knows

    As a devotee of the great S. Colbert, I can't see skin color.

    I was told he was actually mauve with fuchsia highlights, but I'm suspicious, as the person who told me also said there were armadillos flying past.

    by drbloodaxe on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 06:23:56 PM PDT

•  In Obama's instance

  In my opinion and based upon reading his two books carefully and closely, I would assert that Obama's heritage has been a stimulus for a depth of introspection far beyond what the majority of us have ever done.

  An entirely private and personal search for identity "Who am I?" has produced a man with the ability to transcend race.

  Is Obama partially black? Sure, but his humanity trumps that. He is a human being first and all SIX BILLION of his fellow humans can be pleased that he is one of us.

  Had Obama been born of two Caucasian parents, or two black parents? Perhaps he would not have been driven to become who he now is.

  by Bill White on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:27:39 PM PDT

•  As a black guy let me say

  don't you dare change the title. I've been trying to have this conversation elsewhere. If you decide you want to support Obama, thats fine. But honest assessement of why and eliminations or consideration of it, is the best way to do it. Do not allow these people to intimidate your thinking into playing into their denial of the multitude of reasons, some of them racial, for why people may choose a candidate. I can't believe some of you people.

  by bruh1 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:33:10 PM PDT

  •  Okay, fine

    Sorry you "can't believe" me, but I offered a very reasoned and honest answer to the diarist's question, and find the whole "magical negro" construct a little too clever.  It isn't like we lacked the vocabulary to have this discussion before Spike Lee came along.

    by The Termite on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:35:55 PM PDT

    •  My problem with many of you

      is that you assume things began - ie race issues- began when you decided to support Obama. The fact that many of you didn't know 'magic negro' wasn't invented by the right is distrubing. it would have taken very little effort on your part to look it up,. yet many choose not to do so. there is no justification for that.  

      by bruh1 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:40:35 PM PDT

      •  Excuse me

        But you're making a mountain out of a molehill.  Really.

        I am well aware that Limbaugh co-opted the term.  But it's not received well around here for that reason and I didn't want the diarist's thoughts (which are otherwise nuanced and sincere) to be eclipsed by an easily misunderstood title and therefore overlooked.

        And you insult even your own intelligence when you imagine that Obama's candidacy is the first occasion I or others have had to contemplate race issues.

        by The Termite on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:46:22 PM PDT

        •  again if you wanted to discuss

          what the diarist meant in the context of this conversation do so. if you want to make this about d kos then live in your bubble. i dont care if you feel insulted. this isn't about you.

          by bruh1 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 06:03:56 PM PDT

          •  That's big of you

            I count three straw men and another insult.

            Go bite your pillow.

            by The Termite on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 07:55:39 PM PDT

  •  thanks, the title's not gonna change

    I decided to support Obama when he won Iowa, you can read about it in my other diary: "I'm an Independent, Why I'm for Obama". The more I've questioned my reasons for supporting Obama, the more I've returned to the conclusion that I want him as President and commander-in-chief. I agree, we must always be aware of our reasons, that they may remain valid and true.

    by blzabub8 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:59:19 PM PDT

    •  Great job, good start...

      I applaud you for sticking to your guns in the face of the sometimes overly-sensitive PC police around DKos. As a fellow Obama supporter, I personally believe we need to be having more REALISTIC discussions about race and sex, seeing that we're about to enter uncharted territory with a female or AA nominee.  For all our railing about injustice and the need for change, racism and sexism will remain alive and well throughout Ameria.  We've got to start addressing these issues in a pragmatic manner, or at least with a few less cries of "racism" and "sexism" flying around among those who dare to recognize a reality they don't personally endorse.  

      The overwhelming majority of us here reject racism and sexism, but remembering that real world out there is not a betrayal of these values.

      Your diary gives us all a good moment to pause and ponder important questions about our on motives.  Going forward now, we've got to start looking at how these issues can be minimized as hurdles, or turned into assets.

      by Ericwmr on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 06:14:21 PM PDT

•  dude writes & delivers a great speech

  most eloquent orator in america today, imho. that is never a bad thing. clinton & edwards don't come close to being as effective. i'm not sure if or how much this has to do with his skin pigmentation.

  by rasbobbo on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:34:47 PM PDT

  •  writes & delivers a great speech

    Yep, that's right. He's the best campaigner on the Dem side. He color is incidental. If somebody else could campaign better than he does, I'm sure he wouldn't be doing so well in voter support and campaign donations, regardless of what the color of his opponent was. In other words, people aren't supporting him "just because he's Black".

    by William Domingo on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:32:42 PM PDT

•  Obama is REAL

  and thats why people like him

  edwards is plastic

  hillary is like romney, she changes by the day

  on some level Barak Obama simply resonates with people on a human level, and thats why he is likely to prevail

  and oh, yeah, hes black and brilliant

  that doesnt hurt

  by gregoryjames on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:36:48 PM PDT

•  I think it's a moot question

  Obama would not be Obama if not for his personal history. Speaking as a minority and an immigrant, I can vouch for the fact that my own personal struggles growing up and trying to come to terms with my (dual) identity not only shaped me into the man I am today, but also shaped the way I interpret political and cultural issues.

  by Pav on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:46:25 PM PDT

  •  yes, there's no way to separate race

    from the man, in the society we currently live in and are likely to live in for many, many years. But ideally we are working towards a society in which race won't matter anymore. How do we get there if we continue to behave the way we do? I've got no answers, just asking the questions.

    I'm a member of a racial minority and have suffered some prejudice and racism, and I believe also that my identity, personality and character are linked with my race and my experience as a minority in this country as you say is true of Barack. But maybe it shouldn't be that way. Maybe we want a world where race doesn't define us.

    by blzabub8 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:53:30 PM PDT

•  Here's the necessary distinction

  The point isn't the colour of Obama's skin.

  The point is how Obama's thought and worldview have been shaped by the reactions of others to the colour of his skin.

  He has a special perspective, derived from having experienced prejudice firsthand, while living in a culture where prejudice towards people of his coloration exists.

  If there were no negative reaction of others to his skin colour, that experience would neither exist nor matter.

  You have to separate what is innate to a person, e.g. skin colour, from what arises only as a result of others' reactions to it, e.g. his experience and perspective.

  Otherwise you get into conflations that end up looking like racism.  I'd never vote for a person based on the colour of his skin.  For his experience and perspective of living with that skin colour, however, I might.  It's the thought and worldview -- things the man has chosen -- not the epidermal pigmentation -- which he had no choice about.

  by Karen Wehrstein on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:55:08 PM PDT

  •  Oh, boy, this was well said. n/t

    by Mother of Zeus on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:09:59 PM PDT

  •  I concur . . .

    by Bill White on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 06:22:04 PM PDT

•  What race do you speak of?

  because I thought we were past looking at a person's skin color. It's what is inside of that person, that will make up your mind.
  Now if you are talking about Nascar, well that's a different story. It starts next month, yes! Go Junior in your new #88 car.

  by bonesy on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:56:41 PM PDT

  •  Seriously

    Do you seriously think we are as a nation "past looking at a person's skin color?"

    I think that is wishful thinking.

    by The Termite on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:59:01 PM PDT

    •  Well those of us

      who are past it find all the droning on and on about whether or not a person has more or less melanin or has a penis in their pants or not extremely tiresome.

      by drbloodaxe on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 06:21:28 PM PDT

      •  Then I'd suggest you're not past it

        Because until everybody is as egoless and enlightened as you are, there's a problem in society, which means dialogue is an ugly necessity.

        by The Termite on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 07:54:10 PM PDT

        •  No

          I'm far from egoless.

          I'm so arrogant that in my world, the only important division is 'Me/Not me'.   ;)

          by drbloodaxe on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 07:41:15 AM PDT

          •  hahahaha

            I relate. :)

            by The Termite on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 08:50:24 AM PDT

    •  It's how I was raised,

      taught to judge a person, any person by how good they were, not the color of their skin.
      We as a nation have come along way.
      Not wishful thinking, hopeful thinking.

      by bonesy on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 08:19:42 PM PDT

      •  I'm hoping right alongside you

        I just see too many still-open wounds.

        Thanks for the reply.

        by The Termite on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 08:27:07 PM PDT

  •  Probably muggles/nonmuggles given the title.

    Personally I think Rowling is overrated.

    by drbloodaxe on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 06:19:20 PM PDT

•  Watch a great interview in which Barack

  addresses the exact questions you have raised.

  It's about 20 minutes long.  Sorry, I can't tell you exactly where the race discussion comes in, but the whole interview is so worth watching, that you won't mind watching it all.

  by Mother of Zeus on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:05:08 PM PDT

  •  thanks, watching it now n/t

    by blzabub8 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:09:44 PM PDT

•  Why shouldn't you vote on race?

  I mean, some of Sen. Obama's upper-class white prominent supporters are frequently quite silly, but it's as good a reason as any other.

  by jxg on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:48:45 PM PDT

•  I was peasantly surprised

  that I detected no hint of racism in the run-up to the Iowa caucuses, despite the fact that the TM really tried to make it an issue.  In fact, there were posts and comments here that said lily-white Iowa couldn't look at our fine group of candidates and make a fair assessment.  I never heard ONE WORD about race here in the Corn State.  (In fairness, I didn't hear anything about haircuts, either.)  Everything was about issues, policy, voting records, all the things we'd want people to consider.  
  As this wretched primary season drones on and people really being to tune in, I expect the TM to be beating this drum even harder.  It's the narrative they want and they will push it no matter what the facts are.  I really do wish that everyone could have the benefit of the information that we share on Dkos...

  BTW - Iowa is not as lily-white as we are perceived.  I'll admit that there are not lots of minorities in the rural areas but the urban areas have African-Americans, Hispanics, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Thais, Nepalese, and probably a bunch of other that I don't know about.  We have some special kind of immigration status from the State Dept. courtesy of a former governor, Robert Ray (R).

  by luckylizard on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:50:27 PM PDT

•  Interesting question

  I think there are 101 good reasons to vote for Barack Obama, and somewhere on that list is the fact that he is an African-American and electing a black President would, in and of itself, be a good thing for America and for the world.

  by pragprogress on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 09:59:17 PM PDT