Daily Kos

Obama comes to bury Reagan, not to praise him

Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:24:18 PM PDT

I found it painful to read yesterday's diary regarding Barack Obama's comments about Ronald Reagan. Seeing such obviously sincere people completely misinterpret Sen. Obama's comments and misunderstand the rare opportunity that Obama offers to the progressive community prompted me to attempt an explanation of that opportunity. Many Kossacks appear to be missing the possibilities for the generational change to progressivism that Obama is trying to achieve. Only by winning the kind of mandate that Reagan won can major change be accomplished.

Far from agreeing with Reagan, Obama instead is attempting to reverse Reagan's legacy. He is doing so by following Reagan's successful battle plan for winning a complete generational realignment of politics in this nation. He cites Reagan not for his policies, but for the man's undeniable political prowess. Reagan achieved a generational shift toward conservatism, still the dominant philosophy in the nation. Simply put: Reagan won, and we lost (as did America).

Now, because of the incompetence, stupidity, and sickeningly vicious politics of George W. Bush, we have a chance to overthrow not just the Bush/Cheney junta, but to completely overturn Reagan's victory. Only Obama, because he attracts the crossover votes necessary to achieve a powerful mandate, can do it.

The chance for the kind of generational realignment achieved by Reagan comes rarely. Only a nearly complete disillusionment of the majority of the population offers that window of opportunity. FDR, as the Depression struck, seized the opportunity, as did LBJ after JFK's assassination, as did Reagan after more than a decade of strife left the majority of the population willing to try something new. Obama now sees a new chance for complete change.

These generational shifts go back a long way. Political conservatism dominated the 1920s. Harding and Coolidge allowed business to run amok in the 20s. Most Americans agreed with that approach. Throughout that decade the average American zestfully played the stock market as though it were a sure bet. Then, absent rational regulation, business collapsed and the roar of the 1920s morphed into a howl. Herbert Hoover, once a great humanitarian (Hoover had led the relief drive that saved many thousands of lives in Europe after the devastation of World War I), found himself trapped within his conservative philosophy. Government, he believed, must keep its hands off business. Hoover simply did not believe that he could marshall the power of the government that was necessary to aid devastated Americans, as he had previously aided Europeans.

Enter FDR, who understood how to reach voters during the desperate times. With the nation both economically and emotionally depressed, FDR ran his campaign with a strong message of optimism. "Happy Days are Here Again," he trumpeted. Of course he trounced Hoover, winning a strong mandate from voters.

In his first term, using the power of that mandate, FDR quickly pushed through his National Recovery Act and Social Security, (begun in 1935, although it did not pay benefits until later).

It was a generational realignment toward progressivism that lasted through Truman's administration.

After World War II and Truman's administration, which was perceived as a failure by the vast majority of the population, the country again turned mildly toward conservatism. Fortunately, smiling, optimistic Eisenhower was a far more progressive Republican than the rest of his party.

But Eisenhower's landslide victory was a realignment toward conservatism of a milder sort than we know today. The window of opportunity wasn't open in 1960--it took a candidate as inspirational (and optimistic) as JFK to barely eke out the narrowest victory in U.S. history.

After JFK's assassination, however, LBJ was able to win one of the greatest landslide victories in history, giving him a mandate to push through major progressive legislation, including Medicare. Johnson won not on optimism, but on an overwhelming sympathy vote from a traumatized nation, yet the mandate worked just as well to give LBJ the power he needed.

It could have been another realignment toward progressivism until LBJ ruined it with the Vietnam War.

The turmoil of the 60s turned half the country toward political conservatism. The nation divided along the lines we still see today. Because of Watergate, Nixon lost his chance for a generational realignment after his second, massive victory. Carter won with only a narrow victory that reflected the nation's continuing division, and was unable to achieve his goals as president. Then the struggling economy and the Iranian hostage crisis set the stage for another big shift.

Enter Ronald Reagan. He beat us. He also implemented shortsighted, egregiously destructive policies that were, intentionally, the polar opposite of progressivism.

How did Reagan beat us? By winning the kind of mandate that gives a president the power to achieve major change. Reagan capitalized on the sour mood of the country by running, as had FDR, on optimism: "It's morning in America." He was smooth and constantly smiling. He kept his fearmongering gentle: "There's a bear in the woods." He convinced large amounts of Democrats, the famed "Reagan Democrats" to vote for him.

As a result the Democratic congress, realizing that many of their constituents had voted for Reagan, feared that they would lose their jobs if they did not capitulate to Reagan's legislation. Because of that mandate, Reagan was able to achieve major change. That change was for the worse, but change it certainly was.

It was a generational realignment toward conservatism that has lasted for 28 years.

This is basic democracy, basic politics. If a candidate can win a strong mandate, as president he or she will have the power to implement major legislation. That mandate comes only by winning a significant amount of crossover votes from the opposing party.

Narrow victories do not give presidents that power. That's what Obama means when he says that a 50+1 victory "just won't do."

However, the opportunity to achieve such a mandate comes along only about once a generation, it seems. Now is such a time. A window has opened that can allow a complete shift in political philosophy. Americans are now so completely demoralized by Bush with his incompetence and aggressive attempts to keep us divided that they are searching for a new beginning.

That new mandate is what Obama is trying to achieve. Obama understands how Reagan did it. Reagan identified the yearnings of the majority of the population in 1980, and capitalized on them. Obama is doing the same in 2008, by capitalizing on the demoralized mood of the nation. He realizes that the majority of the population, Democratic, Republican and Independent, simply are heartily sick of the constant, vicious foodfight between polarized conservatives and progressives. He offers hope that things can change for the better, the nation can unite as it has not since before the 1960s.

That's why there are now "Obama Republicans" out there.

Only by appealing to Independents and to many demoralized Republicans can we achieve the kind of political power, that strong mandate, that can effect sweeping change. Bill Clinton never won that kind of power from the voters and thus was unable to shift the country toward progressivism. Instead, he found it necessary on too many occasions to capitulate to conservatism. DOMA, NAFTA, and welfare reform stand as testaments to the fact that Reagan's conservatism still dominated the nation, even while it was led by Clinton. That window wasn't open in 1992. It took a politician as talented as Bill Clinton to eke out a narrow victory.

Obama is running now, instead of four or eight years from now, because he knows that window of opportunity is open. Americans are so sick of these constant polarizing battles that they're nauseous. (Evidence: the positive, relieved reaction of most of the nation to Obama's 2004 convention speech.)

That's why only Obama has a real chance to achieve a generational realignment to progressivism. Sens. Clinton and Edwards, while both highly competent and strong candidates, forcefully promise to just keep slugging away, to continue the battles that have been raging since the 1960s. While that approach certainly attracts those of us who have engaged in those battles and who want to humiliate the opposition, it precludes the chance to win those crossover votes, that sweeping majority necessary to get major change accomplished. Hillary (as did Bill) and Edwards are still using tactics that appeal to only half the country, trying to expand the liberal side into the slightly bigger half. While emotionally satisfying and pleasant to Democrats, such tactics continue to alienate the half of the country that does not share our beliefs. Even if either were to win the election, as I believe either could, their approach stands less chance to win the powerful mandate they need actually to implement progressive change.

When Obama trumpets "Change we can believe in," he's talking about a complete shift in politics, a shift to progressivism that will last for decades. Because of his broad appeal, his ability to inspire as no one has since the Kennedys (he is older than both JFK and RFK when they died, incidentally), his basic civility, and his talent for bringing people together, he just might be able to win the kind of majority that will annihilate Reagan's achievement. Should he win the kind of mandate that Reagan won, by appealing to as large a swathe of the nation as Reagan did, he could gain the political power that is essential to implement major legislation. He could win the clout necessary actually to achieve universal healthcare, strong action on climate change, equal rights and much of the rest of the progressive agenda.

Here is our opportunity to win a real victory, one that will realign the nation to the progressive side for another generation at least, and finally begin the 21st century.

An Obama victory would be a complete, total repudiation of Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and his pathetic son, because instead of merely defeating a conservative candidate, it would defeat conservatism.

It's the chance to finally, permanently, bury Ronald Reagan.

Tags: 2008 Elections, Barack Obama, Ronald Reagan, Progressivism, Conservatism, Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, First Diary, Recommended (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 777 comments

  •  Tips for my first diary (339+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    PrometheusSpeaks, Lestatdelc, Kitty, tsackton, Ed in Montana, aisling, JR, Katydid, PLS, gregonthe28th, Joe Willy, ihlin, Stevie, Odysseus, ABB, skyesNYC, raatz, jmelli, jennybravo, Better Days, AaronInSanDiego, zonk, Fro, folgers, Munguza, TaraIst, lrhoke, MarkC, TrueBlueMajority, sarac, perpetualstudent, existenz, dengre, byteb, steviemo, Fishgrease, Heimyankel, antigonos, LynChi, darboy, ablington, cookiesandmilk, bawbie, koan, TX Unmuzzled, autoegocrat, cosmicrob, tithonia, Luam, bethcf4p, bumblebums, exNYinTX, nightsweat, angelmom, nanoboy, Nonie3234, noexpert, strengthANDwisdom, Heart of the Rockies, jeepdad, PBCliberal, kissfan, Dumbo, timmyc, Ash Tree, Boston Boomer, erhan04, linnie, chockfull, DAVE DIAL, brown girl in the ring, metal prophet, highacidity, Pithy Cherub, Vermonter, ptmflbcs, DistrictDonkey, Zueda, Wayward Son, taonow, peraspera, sgilman, badlands, karenc, itskevin, Glinda, HooverWhoWontSuck, dmsilev, SGlennW, SneakySnu, Embee, nicta, snout, mihan, businessdem, missliberties, pointsoflight, casperr, cityofgates, Damien in Texas, jaywillie, john from vermont, Man in Black, ohiolibrarian, lizah, arielle, dufffbeer, Pirate Smile, bwintx, ChiGirl88, larrybutch, jj32, KayCeSF, edavis, Knightrider, Schwede, Texas Populist, dss, bibble, jim bow, donailin, Illissius, ebbinflo, machiado, Big Tex, frostyinPA, davidincleveland, bloomer 101, historys mysteries, Pokerdad, radarlady, DianeNYS, JanetT in MD, mjd in florida, Bodean, Luetta, citizenx, Clem Yeobright, huckleberry, NewJerz, pureproductofamerica, nameblock, 21st Century Man, JoieDe, jorndorff, LABobsterofAnaheim, sueNaustin, sofia, paul minot, baskil, Todd Smyth, sick of it all, ivorybill, onanyes, Jaboo, Gottayo, turnover, eddeevy, hcc in VA, Matt in AA, begone, kubla000, Major Organ, Audio Guy, alchemillamollis, Jennifer Clare, gwilson, Icy, BobzCat, Fasaha, cas2, 417els, RogueStage, Crestingwave, bluejeandem, Sagittarius, johnsonwax, earwulf, a gnostic, irishamerican, charlestown dem, play jurist, CAL11 voter, MJ via Chicago, JCWilmore, uniqity, gatorcog, FireCrow, JVolvo, gotalife, baronzito, boatsie, Andy30tx, weidheimer, DemocraticLuntz, Ludd, frankzappatista, Miles in WesternWA, ToxicTidepool, Exile, kafkaesque, jpfdeuce, Lesser Dane, coolsub, Oothoon, sasher, theark, orrg1, ohiomeister, ccyd, Terlis, fisheye, Donkey Underpants, recusancy, malik5470, dotsright, Guy Fawkes, GetTogether, clashfan, oscarsmom, Castine, crankyinNYC, vets74, maxalb, KateinIL, unionboy, FishOutofWater, TtexwiTyler, kath25, oscarsdad, holder, Azdak, Practical Progressive, chicago jeff, jamesia, NHTimes, sqz23, Rumarhazzit, Tackle, wuod kwatch, Empower Ink, extradish, cville townie, jules4sail, trivium, sand805, webphantom, kafkananda, FolsomBlues, shadydan, mconvente, SicPlurisPoenaPrestantia, Citizen King, condorcet, Mad Kossack, ShadowSD, ynp junkie, dotster, NotGeorgeWill, Phil N DeBlanc, brklyngrl, Steve15, soulonaroll, zerone, mamamedusa, shanay, canoeist, lovingj, r squared, Mannabass, wscrews, Mother of Zeus, Akonitum, beltane, Greasy Grant, MrrarA, Happy Days, Brian A, pamelabrown, mnc, icebergslim, mad clamor, vernonbc, karpaty, DanK Is Back, Barry C aka Casey, noddem, Rachel Griffiths, inflector, enarjay, KttG, psericks, Drewid, jalenth, jayday, tsqd, LCA, echatwa, a night owl, omegajew, BYw, SteamPunkX, Anr, IntertubeGuy, palantir, Tom0063, ludwig van brickoven, Robinswing, Rich Santoro, Kimball, ryangoesboom, bhagamu, in2mixin, Bule Betawi, cybrestrike, El Yoss, there will be blood, pwr2thepeople, Glacial Erratic, illdemforchange, Texanomaly, Hobelhouse, a synthetic cubist, MoNut, Big Blue Colorado, broui, ronnied, sunhaws, clambake, DaNorr, cantelow, Michael James, Mojo Jojo, a wolf raised by boys, velvet blasphemy, txdreamer, smash artist, XerTeacher, DemsUnited

    (Although I probably shouldn't say that.)

    I see that there have been other diaries on this subject today, but I'll offer this one as my own take on it.

    Thanks for reading it.

    May your entire existence be one sensuous, frolic-filled experience lived in defiance of care.

    by Fonsia on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:26:13 PM PDT

        •  Thank you thank you thank you! (35+ / 0-)

          This is such a wonderful breath of fresh air after all the WTF ZOMG OBAMA HRTS REAGAN HE SUX diaries that have been popping up like cockroaches today...

          The war for oil is a war for the Beast The War on Terror is a war on peace

          by El Yoss on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 06:12:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  After reading 525 comments I am jumping line... (7+ / 0-)

            The word "tax" sends Republicans shrieking into knee jerking mass hysteria...without the slightest consideration of its context and total disregard for anything else the speaker/writer has addressed.  "Tax" is a bad word!  Anyone who says it out loud is a bad person who hates America and wants to starve their children and steal their neighbor's dog!

            I have read so many absurd expansions and irrational interpretations of what Obama "really meant"...saying he has praised and wants to emulate everything Reagan.

            The word "Reagan" has become the Democrats' equivalent of the Republicans' "Tax". One word sound bites that have miles of inaccurate and fabricated trash attached to them.

            "Evil is a lack of empathy, a total incapacity to feel with their fellow man." - Capt. Gilbert,Psychiatrist, at the end of Nuremberg trials.

            by 417els on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 02:20:45 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  "Cash Tax" versus "Debt Tax." Equal burdens. (4+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Clem Yeobright, 417els, lightfoot, maxalb

              GOP "tax cuts" only shiuft the tax burden over to borrowing.

              It is the same burden.

              Nothing much changes on how much hurt happens.

              If anything, GOP "Debt Tax" hurts more because of the added interest penalties.

              This fact -- the Debt Tax -- needs to be documented and used as a major election issue.

              GOP incompetence/lies from 2001 through 2006 stuffed a $1,000,000,000,000 Debt Tax onto America's citizens.

              Dixie Chicks, Amy Winehouse, Imus, and Rev. Wright. Overcome our evil with good.

              by vets74 on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 04:52:48 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  I disagree (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Clem Yeobright

              Reagan spells very bad economic practices to me and anti-socialistic programs.  Why do you think there are homeless on the streets and more every day?  Reagan economics!  Why do you think there are less people in the middle class today?  Reagan economics! Why is there no health care for all of Americans?  Reagan economics!  Why did the administration fail in Iraq and in the Katrina devastation?  Reagan economics!  Reagan = Friedman = the Chigago School of economics.  When you say Reagan in any form other than in destructive terms, I shudder.  I worry that Obama is from Chicago, that he now might follow Reagan economics instead of dusting off Keynsian economics.  
              Where I was considering him before, I no longer am doing so and won't until he explains this Phopah!

              Not only did we beat the British now we have to beat the Bushes.

              by libbie on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 09:55:05 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  He HAS explained it but some refuse to (0+ / 0-)

                acknowledge its meaning (which was apparent to many of us on the first reading) and continue to imbue his words with outrageous connotations that ARE NOT THERE.

                Taking a few words, divorcing them from their context and magically weaving them into Dracula's cape to claim a candidate is a vampire smacks of hysteria.

                Dkos is engorged with this stuff right now and it's spit out on all three candidates...Clinton, Edwards as well as Obama.  It gives me a Karl Rove headache.

                My state's primary isn't until May, so my candidate preference is irrelevant.  However, we have three choices all of which tower high above anything the GOPers have dredged up.  I will unequivocally support the Democratic nominee.

                ..."Reagan" is a nauseating word for sure, but it has more blinding power than it remotely deserves if it eclipses the context in which it is used.

                "Evil is a lack of empathy, a total incapacity to feel with their fellow man." - Capt. Gilbert,Psychiatrist, at the end of Nuremberg trials.

                by 417els on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 06:50:39 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  Fonsia, I'll recomend you just for that. (17+ / 0-)

          But I'm getting a little tired of the whole Reagan debate.  I thought today's big news was the culinary workers caucus legal decision, and Bill Clinton's temper tantrum over it.  Reagan, though, is still dead.

          •  Seizing the "Opportunity" is right! (26+ / 0-)

            Why some Democrats would willingly blow this chance to gain a national leader capable of destroying "Conservatism" as a ruling coalition, is totally unfathomable.  And he has potential to provoke positive social changes even far beyond that.  He could finally end the Civil War.  

            Obama is the atomic bomb against the Old Guard in this country.  Maybe some people aren't ready to give up being the permanent opposition.

            •  great phrasing (17+ / 0-)

              "Obama is the atomic bomb against the Old Guard".

              That's exactly right.  Exactly.

              Old Man McCain.com - the best anti-McCain blog on the web!

              by existenz on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 07:23:02 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Obama IS the Old Guard, dressed differently (24+ / 1-)

                and playing the moderate democrat. He tells us who he is every day.

                I'm laughing at those of you performing contortions and writing long essays about what he meant regarding Reagan

                He meant one thing, pure and simple.  He wants to be viewed as the mythologized president (albeit playing for another team) that Reagan was.

                Reagan sold us down the river.  I will hazard a guess that Obama will never, ever bring up the horrible things done to this country under Reagan's regime.  The destruction of the environment, the saving and loans scandals, the burial of the middle class, recessions, lies about El Salvador and Nicaragua, air traffic controller union destroyed...I mean please.

                Instead he spoke of Reagans 'greatness' and that he gave America what they wanted.  You really believe they wanted all of the above?

                Obama supporters will gyrate, twist and turn to justify what their candidate said on the matter.  What they refuse to really see is what's before them...A candidate who desperately wants for no one to pull back the curtain.  The press provided cover for Reagan...They're doing the same for Obama.

                •  Bitter fool (23+ / 0-)

                  you really don't get it?

                  god i feel for your soul, the anger and hatred you have for the republicans, for fellow americans... they're a well meaning bunch, most of them listless actually, not too plugged in, easily swayed.  you on the other hand should know better. your obvious hatred for so many, including obama, speaks of a dark soul adrift with anger and resentment.

                  free yourself from that or you will continue to be the problem along with the republicans.

                  John McCain: Crash Test Dummy

                  by kubla000 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 07:55:09 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Great Post, Kubla. (9+ / 0-)

                    It speaks the truth.  I don't understand why people hate other people so much.

                    ----------

                    Economic Left/Right: -8.50

                    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.51

                    by MrrarA on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 07:57:48 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Sometimes I do think WE are the problem (13+ / 0-)

                    From 30,000 feet, what's really the problem with this country?  Is it the parties? The companies? Or the people?

                    The parties and the companies are just collections of the people, so in the end, it's the people.

                    The problem with the people is the tribalism, the us against them, win at any cost mentality that is exibited in full force on the right and on the left.

                    Hillary Clinton is the Embodiment of what is wrong with our country. - Voter Suppression tacktics WITH Plausible Deniability to boot - Racial Bating of Surrogate - Race Card Victimization theatre - Politics of Fear and elevating a laughable plot into Al Queda - Red Meat and Alienation in calling Bush Pathetic

                    John Edwards at least saves his vitriol for the right targets, those people among us who aim to steal from the common man.

                    Barack Obama on the other hand appeals to the other side of people, the side that is civilized, the side that is optimistic, the side that makes us one Community.  It's no longer a team sport, a Blood Match when he's involved, and for some amongst the Tribe, that's Dangerous because they've been invested in their fucking team and anger for so long they stop seeing the Forrest and can only see the Tree infront of them

                    Truth is, if the people came together, that would be solving the problem halfway.  Call me naive, call me kumbaya, I don't give a fuck, but its powerful shit to consider that we have a modern FDR in our midst, yet some are still holding on to their team, A LOSING TEAM ('94), and risking the future of our country and our world for their own petty hatred, their own tribalism.

                    •  How could you possibly know that Obama (11+ / 0-)

                      is the modern day FDR.  He hasn't done anything yet.  Our country truly suffered during the depression.  People lost their homes, jobs and families.  There was no money or food or anything until FDR stepped up and literally got this country started again.  Obama has a long way to go to get compared to FDR.

                      •  and fdr (2+ / 0-)

                        Recommended by:
                        Fonsia, Texanomaly

                        evolved into who he became after his first 100 days in office. .. he most assuredly was not viewed as the 'unifier' and the 'visionary' he became when he first took office.
                        what has hapened to us, that we are so reviled by & accussatory of those who offer a platform of renewal, engagement, a leader who already has so successfully inspired what is undoubtedly the most successsful grasssroot movement of volunteers who are working their asses off because they have been intrinsically motivated to rise  out of apath and participate.
                        Imagine the incredible work which will be undertaken by this movement under the leadership of Obama?

                        •  Ok Tom (2+ / 0-)

                          Recommended by:
                          Clem Yeobright, vets74

                          Thanks for the info on Scientology.

                        •  Here's why some of us.... (3+ / 0-)

                          Recommended by:
                          vacantlook, Clem Yeobright, seancdaug

                          don't trust Obama:  you mention that Obama will provide 'renewal', 'engagement', that he is a 'leader' who has already 'successfully inspired'.

                          Do you know what those words mean to me? Absolutely nothing.  They are platitudes and empty rhetoric.

                          I liked Obama when he said these kind of things at the convention a few years ago, expecting that if elected, he would back up his words with some actions.  Instead, he has spent most of his Senate term campaigning rather than working like we pay him to do.  

                          If he or any candidate wants me to believe what they are saying, then go out and do something.  Show some actual leadership. The problems facing our country right now are legion and we shouldn't be just trying to wait out the Bush administration.

                          You can trust his words if you want to, but past experience tells me that what politicians say on the campaign trail usually rings pretty hollow after they are elected.  I'm looking for someone whose votes and actions matches their rhetoric, and frankly candidates like that for any office are in extremely short supply.

                          "The meek shall inherit nothing" - F. Zappa

                          by cometman on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 07:43:03 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                    •  Riiiiight (6+ / 0-)

                      And the insurance and pharma and weapons and oil and banking boys will just say "hey, you know the progressives are cool!  Let's just give them what they want." I find that very hard to imagine.  This is a zero sum game here, and it's our last shot.

                      The necessary switch from petroleum to alternate fuels is an opportunity for the United States to create a new national industry.

                      by arvo on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 10:25:58 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  And if Obama was as argumentative as Edwards... (2+ / 0-)

                        Recommended by:
                        maxalb, cybrestrike

                        ...they'd shoot his black ass.

                        You guys forget the history of this country.

                        And that it repeats.

                        "Lone gunman" -- yeah, sure.

                        Dixie Chicks, Amy Winehouse, Imus, and Rev. Wright. Overcome our evil with good.

                        by vets74 on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 04:55:32 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Sad to say that is my fear. (3+ / 0-)

                          As I watch him in debates & whatever televised speeches I can see,  I worry that it could happen again. Can't even give voice to it. I doubt that my voice will even matter by the time of the PA Primary, but I support Edwards, and will vote enthusiastically for whomever the Dem candidate winds up being.

                          "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what's right." Isaac Asimov

                          by maxalb on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 07:07:08 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                        •  I forget nothing. (1+ / 0-)

                          Recommended by:
                          historys mysteries

                          if anybody needs to fear the nightworkers,  it's Edwards.  Obama's playing ball. He's there to give %110 for the coach.  He's happy to be on the team.  He's not ruffling any feathers.  Unfortunately, we need to ruffle feathers.  

                          The necessary switch from petroleum to alternate fuels is an opportunity for the United States to create a new national industry.

                          by arvo on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 07:32:02 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Do that in office. Not now. (0+ / 0-)

                            Edwards gets away with it because he's not winning primaries.

                            All he's doing is keeping "Tonya" from locking it up.

                            Dixie Chicks, Amy Winehouse, Imus, and Rev. Wright. Overcome our evil with good.

                            by vets74 on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 05:46:32 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  Argumentative Obama = painted as Malcolm X (3+ / 0-)

                          Recommended by:
                          lrhoke, Clem Yeobright, vets74

                          ....Angry young black man trying to take over the government.  We can hear the swift-boating now.

                          Besides, what's up with this assumption that fighting must be loud, noisy, and obvious.  Personally, I'm less worried about the army we see miles away than I am of the spies and covert ops going on within my own castle.

                          Just sayin...more than one way to "fight." Spies and saboteurs are usually more effective than pitchforks these days.

                    •  Ok, you're naive. Enjoy your Kumbaya. (3+ / 0-)

                      Recommended by:
                      Clem Yeobright, CTDemoFarmer, inHI

                      Don't sell out John! Damn, too late, lost another to the dark side!

                      by ichibon on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 01:25:57 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  Not so nice (7+ / 0-)

                    That's not so nice a thing to say. Bitter fool, I mean.

                    Please do read a book about the Reagan years. I don't hate Ronald Reagan personally; he was a very genial man. But his polices hurt many people. Certainly we shouldn't stop telling the truth.

                    Buy local. John Edwards

                    by greenapple on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 08:17:33 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  But you guys who keep talking about the bad (6+ / 0-)

                      policies of the Reagan admin are completely missing the point.

                      It's as if you haven't even read this diary--you just see that it's about the Reagan thing again, so jump in with comments about "Reagan is bad."

                      The only point of the Reagan comparison is the ability to put together a new broad-based coalition--in Obama's case, of Democrats, Independents and moderate Republicans--to create a generational shift in American politics.

                      An Obama victory would be a complete, total repudiation of Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and his pathetic son, because instead of merely defeating a conservative candidate, it would defeat conservatism.

                      It's the chance to finally, permanently, bury Ronald Reagan.

                      Some people fight fire with fire. Professionals use water.

                      by Happy Days on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 07:18:40 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Yea, you can say all of this all the while (1+ / 0-)

                        Recommended by:
                        Clem Yeobright

                        forgetting why Reagan is the epitome of what the NeoCons represent and why invoking the name of Reagan is the standard of ultra, right-wing Republicans throughout the nation.

                        We all know why Obama did it, but the fact that he crossed the line of Centrism in an effort to curry favor with Republicans and right wing Independents to the exclusion of progressives, liberals and matter of factly, left of center Dems will gain him no points whatsoever.

                        A horribly, bad move on his part and particularly insightful for understanding the political message he puts forth.

                        My Homer is not a communist. He may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a communist, but he is not a porn star. -Grandpa Simpson

                        by xobehtedistuo on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 08:03:33 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  The reference to Reagan was not an appeal to (3+ / 0-)

                          Recommended by:
                          Ericwmr, Foodle, Citizen King

                          adherents of Reagan.  After all, Obama will reverse all of Reagan's policies.  

                          It was an academic-type comparison of recent presidents who did or did not transform the political landscape.  (Nixon, Reagan, Clinton)

                          Yes, Obama does appeal to independents and moderate republicans.  But use of the name Reagan was not part of that.

                          Can you objectively say that Reagan did not transform the political landscape?  That there were not "Reagan Democrats?"  

                          Using Reagan as an example for something, regardless of how accurate, was probably a bone-headed move for Barack politically.

                          It shows the overwhelmingly difficulty of speaking objectively about anything in our hyper-partisan climate today.

                          Some people fight fire with fire. Professionals use water.

                          by Happy Days on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 09:01:01 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  I think we are unworthy of him. That must be it. (2+ / 0-)

                            Recommended by:
                            lightfoot, xobehtedistuo

                            You kids behave or I'm turning this universe around RIGHT NOW! - god

                            by Clem Yeobright on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 10:17:52 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  An "acedemic-type" of comparison? (1+ / 0-)

                            Recommended by:
                            Clem Yeobright

                            Stop kidding yourself. Where was the academia in the comparison. That Nixon and Clinton weren't able to effect the anxious centrist vote of the competing party the way that the faux optimism and false calls of transparency in government did for Reagan?

                            When your first reply to the question is "Reagan" and then in passing a mention of JFK, the motives become as transparently crystal as your motives for using bold type.

                            My Homer is not a communist. He may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a communist, but he is not a porn star. -Grandpa Simpson

                            by xobehtedistuo on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 10:44:00 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I must tell you, (2+ / 0-)

                            Recommended by:
                            Clem Yeobright, xobehtedistuo

                            I was a little miffed when I read about what Obama said about Reagan but I thought that maybe it could be taken a few different ways.  I didn't really think that but it didn't get me ballistic.  However, if you are a Democrat, you don't have to be Malcom X to never ever ever mention Reagan in a good light because people who don't think about these things as much as we do, say oh even Obama likes Reagan.  We don't need anyone to say that because it makes our job of discrediting Republican greed that much harder.

                            What sent me over the top last night was this guy's utter dismissiveness of the baby boomers when he said, "I'm not invested in the 60s and the 70s.  To me Viet nam was just a war.  *It was the excesses of the 60s and the 70s that brought us where we are today."  That was a little paraphrasing but you can judge for yourselves by listening to the entire interview at http://news.rgj.com/...  

                            This is where I want Obama to be brought down hard because this guy not only says nothing about the future, he dismisses the past.  It was not the excesses of the 60 and 70s, it was the carpetbagging of America in the 80s and the 2000s that is the reason we are in big trouble today.

                            I don't understand how you all could vote for someone who doesn't understand history and speaks in empty generalities about the future.  You know the same bullshit America heard from George W. Bush.  What happened to standards?  Remember how we all criticized and name called Republicans like Bush who said nothing and didn't understand history?

                            I also find Obama is very dismissive of women's issues.  Seems like this guy missed an awful lot of votes or voted present whenever the issue was about women's privacy rights.  Then let's also not forget how this alleged reformer and agent of change wouldn't join in the filibuster of the Alito confirmation.  

                            Who knows what this guy is?  I sure don't and I have been paying attention.

                            One final thing, I think it was emmabrody that wrote such a civil comment against Obama and she  was attacked and trollrated.  Maybe Obama supporters know there is no there there and they need momentum because once this guy has to explain what he is, people will be looking for the door.

                            "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

                            by cpa1 on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 10:44:37 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                            •  How can you so completely twist what he said? (0+ / 0-)

                              You said:

                              It was not the excesses of the 60 and 70s, it was the carpetbagging of America in the 80s and the 2000s that is the reason we are in big trouble today.

                              You are refuting something he never said.  He did not say nor even imply that the excesses of the 60's and 70's are responsible for the trouble we're in today.

                              You and he agree that Reagan and the Bushes are responsible for the trouble we're in today.  

                              The "60's and 70's" remark simply pointed out that the problems and discontent with the direction of the country during those years paved the way for a charismatic Reagan to come into power to effect a major change.

                              It turned out to be a very bad change even for a large percentage of those who supported him, but the point was that at that point in time America was ready for major change and Reagan capitalized on that.

                              Some people fight fire with fire. Professionals use water.

                              by Happy Days on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 12:21:02 PM PDT

                              [ Parent ]

                          •  difficulty vs. inability. (1+ / 0-)

                            Recommended by:
                            Happy Days

                            It shows the overwhelmingly difficulty of speaking objectively about anything in our hyper-partisan climate today.

                            You've made one of the clearest and most concise interpretations of this argument that I've seen, but I'll chime in a different take on that last part quoted above:

                            This isn' a matter of DIFFICULTY speaking objectively, but an UNWILLINGNESS due to hyper-partisanship.  The vast majority of people posting here are obviously intelligent enough to get the pedestrian interpretation of these remarks.  Unfortunately, many of these same people are also smart enough to have learned a few things from the Karl Rove and Scott McLelland school of Complete and Utter Bulls--t.  

                            I'm going to play the cynical optimist for just a second here...On the whole, we know what the intended message was, and we also know exactly how to spin for our own purposes. Even if it were possible to poll this reliably, I'm quite sure we'd see that most of those pushing this Reagan=Obama memo were yelling "conspiracy theory" at anyone who questioned the string of questionable remarks coming from the Clintons several days ago.

                            As a few have said, 'tis the silly season.  Until baseball season starts, "spin" has taken the mantle of America's favorite pasttime.  

                            •  Eric (3+ / 0-)

                              Some of the problems we have today come because of people like Obama who will say what is politically expedient or safe.  If Democrats would have blasted the intestines out of Reagan, there never would have been the fucking Bush tax cuts.

                              You say we know what he means.  Eic, I don't, I honestly don't.  He said things during that interview that he volunteered and didn't have to say.  He basically trashed the Democratic agenda just like Reagan did.

                              I heard him say that he want to return to the Clinton tax brackets but we know all too well that that is not enough and who is he saying that for...to placate us or to placate Republicans?  You start with the Clinton rates as your offer and you end up moving that 15% bracket to 20 percent and that is not nearly enough.  I think there should be a top bracket of 50% for those whose incomes are $20 million and up.  I don't think someone earning $20 million should be in the same bracket as a couple earning $200,000 and if that income if from passive sources (Int, Div, Rents) there is no Soial Security or Medicare tax.

                              I have to tell you that if he were a true progressive, someone who with all his being  detested the war in Iraq, how in God's name could he have voted to confirm the war's biggest cheerleader and the most incompetent of anyyone one in the Administration.  Rice was a total failure and he voted to confirm her.

                              I don't know who Obama is and I have been on the Dkos for at least 5 or 6 years and I have seen how angry these same members have been with other Democrats who fail to commit like Obama does.  

                              I don't like this guy at all because I have never seen a bigger phony in my life.  He has no idea how politics work in Washington DC and he has gotten everyone by the balls because people who think they are progressive want to prove it and what better way than to vote for an African American.  Problem is, this one is a snake oil salesman.  

                              There are too damn many like him in the Democratic Party now and putting one on top would be the end of the party.  This guy is another Lieberman, Harold Ford, Jr., John Breau, Ben Nelson Mary Landreux...et al.  He is a DLCer and we know what Kossacks think of DLCers...right?

                              I think that Nevada interview is the real map to Barack Obama.  He is an empty headed good talker with no sense or care for history.  He is delusional about his own ability.  Listen to that video...the whole thing!  To me it was very disturbing and everyone here is taking to big a leap before they know who this guy is.  Even if he isn't a Reagan lover, mentioning his name without all the negatives is just like what we have with Pelosi and Reid.  Most of us have always said, we can never really win until we are proud to redefine liberal from Reagan's anathematic slur and be proud to be called one.  You cannot govern like a liberal hiding in the shadows behind Reagan.

                              "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

                              by cpa1 on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 01:25:07 PM PDT

                              [ Parent ]

                              •  Ummm.... (1+ / 0-)

                                Recommended by:
                                Fonsia

                                Some of the problems we have today come because of people like Obama who will say what is politically expedient or safe.

                                You have it backwards.

                                Because Obama is objective rather than purely partisan, he is saying things that are not politically expedient or safe.  And you guys are trying to kill him for it.

                                But because he does speak honestly, time and daylight eventually show his so-called gaffes to be accepted wisdom.  (Many considered his speech against going to war with Iraq as a political gaffe at the time.  Also his statement during a debate that he would meet with our enemies without preconditions. etc. etc.)

                                Some people fight fire with fire. Professionals use water.

                                by Happy Days on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 01:43:39 PM PDT

                                [ Parent ]

                              •  Winning one despite the Gipper symbolism.... (0+ / 0-)

                                While I disagree with your basic interpretation of how Reagan was used and what that was intended to convey, let me first say that it is an increasingly rare pleasure to find myself in a polite and nuanced disagreement.  Let me also add that, contrary to the sometimes accurate stereotype floating around here, I am not one who believes Barack Obama was crucified, died, and rose on the thrid day. Not only is he human, he is a national politician.....so much for the purity test.

                                My oft repeated understanding of the Obama/Reagan comparison is that Obama uses speaks symbolically, not ideogically, of the mythological Reagan - and only to the extent that this mythological Reagan is broadly regarded as the agent and symbol of a pivotal political shift.  Certainly it can be argued that things also changed under figures such as FDR or Hitler.  In the case of Hitler, I believe it safe to say that the average national opinion of Hitler is considerably lower than that of Reagan.  In the case of FDR, the symbolism is that of a great yet less broadly understood man and symbol.  This is due to the time elapsed between these two presidencies, not an indication that FDR is any lesser than Reagan.  Dealing purely with symbols of leadership models in a vague sense, Reagan reaches a broader audience because he is more recent, and more living Americans were alive during the Reagan era.  That, and Americans on the whole have a terrible sense of history.

                                Invoking Reagan invokes the idea of uniting Democrats with a smile,  just like smiling Grandpa Reagan united Republicans, albeit for a VASTLY different agenda. At the same time, Reagan also symbolizes a moment where many began to change their political affiliation, even if not always on the most intellectualy sound basis. Yes, Americans are largely furious with President Bush and the Republicans, but we cannot forget that the Democratic controlled congress is viewed even less favorably. (true, though I agree that’s misguided and unfair.)  Though the symbol is ultimately empty once one scrutinizes the details, the Rorschach poll on Reagan generally comes back as "happy warrior and likable guy."  This is not the result one gets conducting that test here, obviously, but we partisans alone can’t win this alone.  Like it or not, we need some of that moderate squishy middle this fall.  Unfortunately, that means overlooking a certain amount of bullshit and at least putting up the pretense of willingness to compromise on some matters.

                                If one were to poll 5000 Dkos members and 5000 completely random Americans, few would argue that Reagan fares better in the non-Kos sample.  In this sense, I see Obama making a strategic move for the middle, rather than shoring up the most partisan Democrats who currently trend more favorably for Hillary Clinton.  In gambling terms, there is more potential upside for an Obama candidacy by playing for the less committed center. Some will call this safe and treasonous, while others will call it a strategic play for the electability argument and a head start on the possible general election campaign.  At an even more basic level, this becomes a debate between ideological purity and realpolitik.  This is the point where I believe you and I will sharply part ways, but perhaps I am mistaken. It is my sole opinion that the discussions of the matter all too often become a case of black/white, either/or,  all or nothing.  While the philosophical discussion of party direction is an immensely important topic, I do not accept that these discussions should always dominate the direction of electoral strategy.  I say this on two assumptions - first: that no candidate will give us everything we want and second: that we must win in November to get much of anything we want.  

                                When we elect a president, we do not elect a supreme being who is the ultimate authority on every detail of every political issue that a President must address.  Expecting this of any person, especially in an increasingly complex world, is unreasonable and impossible to fulfill.  In the search for one savior, we have no chance to save ourselves.  Quite frankly, any candidate who will pretend to be the all knowing expert in all areas is automatically suspect in my eyes.  To quote Hillary in an abstract sense, it does take a village.  In this case, that village is an administration, chosen and guided largely by the village chief.  At this point, we look at the generally proposed ambitions, and make a vote of confidence in the capacity, judgment, and character of the candidate.  Part of being a great leader, in my mind, is to recognize your weaknesses as well as strengths.  If a candidate admits they’re oblivious on global warming but dilligently seeks to bring an Al Gore into the circle on that matter, I don’t see that as a weakness or flaw.

                                Call me prematurely cynical, but I’ve all but given up on that Athenian ideal of a well informed citizenry who makes meticulously informed decisions and pays attention to policy debates with the same scrutiny of a collegiate debate judge.  While it may be a sad reflection on our culture that style and soundbytes matter to a meaningful degree, that’s the truth we face and are unlikely to change between now and November.  If ideological purity, micro-policy prowess,  and unwavering consistency were  dominant factors in these races, we’d currently be working to re-elect a Democratic president.  Call me a cynic, but I do believe Reagan had one general thing right when he said...paraphrased "the only way to get 100% of what you want is to ask for/take it in 5-10% increments."  Yes, that sometimes requires compromise, and is likely to earn me the label of DLC shill.  I understand what "Kossacks think of DLC’ers," but I’m not inclined to embrace groupthink from either a candidate or a blogsite.  I am an American affiliated with the Democratic party who regularly reads and comments on DailyKos.com.  I am also a Barack Obama supporter, but there is no rational reason why one cannot be all four of these simultaneously.

                                Before I touch on policy specifics, I will opine that we have three strong and competent candidates remaining in this race.  Of these and barring an act of G-d, only two of them have a snowball’s chance at securing the nomination. Of all three,  I consider Obama the party’s best shot at retaking the White House while also holding the line or making further gains in Congress.  Both HRC and Obama will be faced with unique new challenges by vitrue of sex and race, but it is my own conclusion that Obama - due to an ability to lure new, non-traditional and swing voters, has a greater chance at jumping his hurdle than Hillary Clinton does.  Fair or not, much more of the jury has been in on her for well over a decade. To make a crude business metaphor, Obama has more upside potential in terms of expanding the brand.  Disgruntled though many will be if Hillary loses,  I can’t see tremendous numbers of her base (proportedly the more "loyal and reliable" Democrats) sitting this one out at the risk of serving up a smarter and more articulate version of George W. Bush.  The fact that Obama may yet rival the JFK/RFK standards in terms of inspiring activism among the younger generation is also a nice plus in this sharply divided country.  To really lean on my bias though, I am sincerely afraid that Hillary Clinton will kill her chances for the White House en route to Denver.  Whether due to truth, spin, or both – the red flags are emerging.  Given the tenor of this campaign, I fear a mass exodus or apathy among African Americans, young people, southern Democrats, and men in general.  This is compounded with a disadvantage among swing voters unless we’re running against Mike Huckabee.

                                Frankly, if cynically, I see winning as the first step.  I see Obama as the best chance on those terms. While all of his positions will fail to meet the ideals of misc. factions for misc. reasons, I’ve yet to see any chance that we get more of what we’re after under President  Mitt McHuckliani.  Win first, then present the bill.  Once we end our infighting over the nominee and fight to put that nominee in office, then our attention turns to fighting to tweak that President and Congressional agenda more to our differing preferences.

                                To get to your specifics finally, I’m not arguing that Condi Rice has turned out to be a disaster.  I won’t presume to understand his rationale behind that vote.  What I will presume is that nothing is ever as simple as aye or nay in Senate votes.  Deals are made, powder is kept dry, good ideas in bad words are rejected.  If we learned anything from the failures of Kerry/Edwards 2004, we should have learned that always taking every vote on face value is overly simplistic.

                                As someone who is NO expert on what should or should not be the optimal national tax policy for this current situation, I will duck that question and trust that Obama and those advising him, Warren Buffett for one, know a little more than I do on the matter. While we may not get a perfect or perfectly fair tax reform, I’ve no doubt that it would get more unfair and muddled than this current cut and spend system.  

                                I’m not even going to touch the "white liberal guilt" theory.  While there will surely be some of that, there’s no realistic indication that this is the plan or the predictable result.  That said, It works out better for us if white guilt overrides white racism should Obama clinch the nomination.

                                From the stragegic view, I actually see this failure to focus on specifics as a wise tactic thusfar.  Obama wins without question so long as he’s playing on the "likability" field.  Why volunteer to play on the road when you’re on a winning streak at home?  To take this one step further, I believe we should look back at our failed criticism of Bush in the past.  The Gore and Kerry campaigns got so wrapped up in trumpeting their superior command of detail and debate style that it backfired.  All this screaming of "all hat, no cattle" served to set a bar so lot that Bush only had to show up for a debate without pooping his pants in order to get positive spin walking out of the event.  For the record, I thusfar guess Obama has more going on upstairs than the current resident.  When public opinion (read – more than just us here) shifts toward more demand on nuts and bolts, he’s likely to surprise people even aside from the low-expectations theory.  The policy papers are there for those who are interested, and one doesn’t rally 20 thousand Texans out in the rain with 45 minutes of nuanced technospeak on tax policy.  Different appeals to different audiences....I see this as an asset, rather than a liability.  The guy reaches largely targets the audience and connects.  Obviously, you one doesn’t use the same speech for a college rally that they use for a CSPAN convention or on the Senate floor.  That’s one more parallel to the Reagan myth/symbol: "the great communicator."  

                                Delusional about ability?  I read this much like egocentric or audaciously confident, right?  Fair or not, there is some truth to that old joke about Washington being "Hollywood for uglier people."  Humility on the presidential campaign trail is smoke and mirrors.  Some pull it off better than others, but I respect anyone who doesn’t pander by constantly reminding us how humble they are - either overtly or through reference to their childhood.  

                                As for everything else, we should have a better idea as the direction of this race unfolds...Given their current popularity, Pelosi and Reid  should certainly not be assumed to have tremendous job security regardless of the Presidential contest.  Nothing is certain, and every choice here requires a leap. Obviously, I prefer a leap forward, but do realize I may have to settle for something less than exactly what I pesonally want.  

                                Thanks for the writing exercise.....Nice change of pace from rerun news and COPS..LOL

                            •  Yes. Speak at your own peril. (0+ / 0-)

                              To make objective observations in this highly partisan season is practically suicidal, apparently.

                              Some people fight fire with fire. Professionals use water.

                              by Happy Days on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 01:30:17 PM PDT

                              [ Parent ]

                  •  No where is the word Republican in my post. (12+ / 0-)

                    You can stop searching for metaphor right about now. I told you what Reagan did as a president, and I'm appalled that Obama held him up as an implementer  of what Americans desired.

                    You twist what I wrote in order to hold up Obama's theme of hope and togetherness.

                    Reagan ripped lives apart.  And he did it with a smile.  Then he became ill and no one in the media took him to task.

                    Obama continues to hold up the tradition the MSM began of deifying the president who caused us so much harm.  There is utterly no justification for what Obama said, other than his own political expediency.

                    Perhaps you're too young to have been there.  I lived through that time and everyday prayed it would be over.  I never thought it could be worse.

                    And along came George W. Bush.

                    •  Reagan brought the largest (8+ / 0-)

                      number of homeless people this country had ever seen. The middle class suffered greatly under Reagan.

                    •  Emma, you and the others who keep citing (5+ / 0-)

                      how bad Reagan was, are misprepresenting Obama's reference to Reagan and completely missing the point of the diary.

                      Obama did not praise Reagan.  And he certainly did not praise Reagan's policies.  He spoke only about how Reagan tapped into people's huge dissatisfaction with the status quo to shift the political landscape to the right.

                      Obama will tap a dissatisfaction with the status quo to shift the landscape to the left.

                      Only by appealing to Independents and to many demoralized Republicans can we achieve the kind of political power, that strong mandate, that can effect sweeping change.

                      Of our candidates, only Obama has that appeal to independents and demoralized republicans.

                      Some people fight fire with fire. Professionals use water.

                      by Happy Days on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 07:27:36 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Happy Days (1+ / 0-)

                        Recommended by:
                        Clem Yeobright

                        Obama has done what every half-dead Democrat has done for 25 years when Republicans wax poetic about Ronald Reagan.  They say nothing but the good things, none of which really have anything to do with Reagan.

                        Every time Reagan's name is mentioned, the words greed, arrogance, carpetbagging, stealing for the middle class, and debt beyond belief should be coming out of Democrats' mouths.  So what does Obama do?  He says our problems are do to the excesses of the 60s and 70s.  Is he an imbecile? What excesses of the 60s and 70s is he talking about?  Maybe you need to watch that interview he gave in Nevada.  It's here: http://news.rgj.com/...

                        Then he blames our medical problem on the baby boomers who are getting sick or will be getting sick causing 80% of the cost to be spent on 20% of the population.  What is he saying there, let them die if they don't have millions to pay for their own elder care?  

                        Listen to what he says, not just his campaign slogans, phrases and platitudes.  He is empty with no sense of history.

                        "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

                        by cpa1 on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 11:13:36 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                  •  You're dead wrong. (15+ / 0-)

                    The bitter old cranks (I'm one of 'em) are right.

                    Reagan sold snake oil. Carter told Americans what they didn't want to hear: "Peak oil is coming, turn down the thermostat, look for alternative energy."

                    Reagan said what America wanted to hear: "Support the Saudis and drive a big car; everything will turn out fine."

                    BTW, Carter had put a solar panel on the WH; Reagan took it down.

                    Look at where Reagan's happy talk got us.

                    In any case, it's the wrong frame for a Democrat.  If you want a positive frame for a transformative president, pick FDR, or even (with all his faults) LBJ,

                    The hungry judges soon the sentence sign, And wretches hang, that jurymen may dine.

                    by magnetics on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 09:07:11 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Almost nobody alive remembers FDR. (4+ / 0-)

                      Easily 90% of Americans have some positive memory of the Reagan presidency or, at least, of the funeral.

                      The righties have hammered the lie that Reagan ended the Soviet Union.

                      Its a crazy idea.

                      But, to quote the ancient Greeks: A lie told 5,000 times is the truth.

                      Dixie Chicks, Amy Winehouse, Imus, and Rev. Wright. Overcome our evil with good.

                      by vets74 on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 05:16:15 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  "Nobody Remembers FDR"...... (7+ / 0-)

                        Because our beloved educational system barely gives his achievements a mention (not to mention the continual FDR bashing by the right--vis-a-vis Glenn Becks diatribe against him last night). Progressivism is looked on as just one step from removed from Communism.
                        I was shocked that my kids did not learn anything about the rise of unions, Eugene V. Debs, etc. in their American History classes. (I am from Wisconsin, home of "Fighting Bob" La Follette a Republican turned Progressive Populist.  At the time I attended school there we were well versed in progressive politics!)

                        Sunlight is the best disinfectant

                        by historys mysteries on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 07:48:46 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                  •  Bring me a pan so I can barf. Puhleeeeese. (4+ / 0-)

                    God I feel for your soul?  They're a well meaning bunch?  Right.  Look where they've gotten us in 7 years.  On the verge of economic collapse, invading a sovereign country (Iraq), stealing & corruption, draining our treasurey, nuclear war with (fill in the blank), and aw jeez, I guess they are a well meaning bunch.

                    You need to take a hard look in the mirror, Alice.

                    Next time I tell you someone from Texas should NOT be president of the United States, please pay attention. In Memory of Molly Ivins, 1944-2007

                    by truebeliever on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 10:45:10 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Oh forgot to mention over 1 MILLION innocent Iraq (0+ / 0-)

                      Iraqis dead, over 5 million in one of the largest refugee crisis in the world.  All in OUR name, all with OUR hardearned money.  Yes, they are a well meaning bunch.

                      Lest we forget, over 1 million of our men & women  have passed through that Godforsaken freefire zone called Iraq, dead/wounded/or forever damaged.

                      Next time I tell you someone from Texas should NOT be president of the United States, please pay attention. In Memory of Molly Ivins, 1944-2007

                      by truebeliever on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 03:08:47 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                •  Amen emma. Why didn't he use JFK or Roosevelt? (7+ / 0-)

                  They were both generational changes!

                  But he used Reagan.  Ronald FUCKING Reagan.

                  The guy who began the destruction of unions, put mental patients on the street, and begat homeless families.

                  I remember.  I was there.  He sold arms to Iran using coke from the Contras.

                  He created the largest deficit in history...until George W. Bush.

                  Oh, and dear commenter below...  

                  We don't HATE Republicans.  We understand them. We have seen them systematically dismantle every thing our country stands for.  And if Obama puts Reagan as someone he looks up to, well then, we have a lot to worry about.

                  Next time I tell you someone from Texas should NOT be president of the United States, please pay attention. In Memory of Molly Ivins, 1944-2007

                  by truebeliever on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 10:41:06 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]