Daily Kos

So who's the hack now?

Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 12:09:25 AM PDT

Joan Walsh, editor of Salon, interviewed the CWA member who was intimidated by her CWA union rep.  In that interview she makes it very clear that she was intimidated.  The reporter, Michael Mishik, kept pushing her. "He twisted my words", said the victim. It was very clear to her that she was threatened by the union.

The reporter's idea of acceptable union tactics would make Sam Giancana proud, but I don't think most people, even Obama partisans , would think telling folks that they can't get the time off to caucus unless they pledge to caucus for Obama, or get their shift changed if they don't endorse Obama or in some other way have the union intercede with the casino to make things more difficult for the worker, constitutes persuasion and not coercion.

Here's the relevant portion of a lengthier piece she did on the Nevada caucuses after the fold.  

The piece in Salon
http://www.salon.com/...

Sunday January 20, 2008 00:37 EST
Dolores Huerta: "Como se llama" Obama?

Paris Hotel and Casino worker Sylvia Antuna, says the Sun's "debunking" got the story wrong, and she confirmed the original account of her intimidation by a union rep in an interview.

snip

Antuna's complaint was first brought to the Sun by Clinton supporter and Paris cook Marie Angers, and her son Matt DeFalco, who also works there. They told of watching Antuna be threatened by a CWU rep that if she didn't support Obama, she couldn't caucus. Sun reporter Michael Mishak did a story on their account, but according to Mishak, Antuna didn't quite confirm it when he talked to her; she ultimately put the exchange between her and the Obama-supporting union rep down to "miscommunication." CWU communications director Pilar Weiss attributed the conflicting stories to the fact that the union rep spoke Spanish -- though, in fact, Antuna speaks Spanish, too. (Weiss did not return a call seeking comment on Antuna's story.)

Then Taylor Marsh interviewed Marie Angers on tape, who was there with her son Will DeFalco who both observed the intimidated and remonstrated with the unrepepntent union rep about "This is America, you can vote for who you want.

"

I'm just afraid to say anything," she said.

This is what she said happened.

All I want to do is tell you how it went. The whole week [union reps] were coming to the cafeteria, trying to sign up voters, some independents, some Republicans, trying to get them to endorse Obama. I would try to eat, and it was 'Obama, Obama, Obama.' I'd say, 'Leave me alone, I'm an independent, I don't know who I want.' But then I really wanted to go to the caucuses, I was confused about who I want to vote for and I wanted to experience it all myself. And they were making it sound like I had to register as a Democrat to caucus.
"So I finally said, 'Can I please have a paper to change my party?' I sat down and started filling out the paper work, and the woman said "Sweetie, you're gonna support Obama, right?" I said 'No, I'm undecided,' and she said, "Well, you can't go if you're not supporting Obama.' And she took the papers from my hands. It was so embarassing, everyone had their eyes on me.

"Marie and Matt were sitting there and they said, 'Sylvia, you don't have to do that, anyone can go to the caucus.' Even my actual boss had asked me if I wanted to go. But [the union rep] said, 'No, honey, you can't go, because you're not supporting Obama.'"

snip

When the, reporter Michael Mishik called to interview Antuna he kept pushing her for a certain storyline she claims.  Actually Antuna claims
"He twisted my words."

Asked if she said it was just a "miscommunication," she insisted, "I didn't say anything like that." Mishak stands by his story, saying that it was clear Antuna "was upset by the incident" but that by the end of their conversation, "she portrayed it more as confusion than anything else."

The reporter insisted that that his story clearing the union was still accurate because he insisted Antuna was confused, felt it was a misunderstanding....etc.

Does it seem Antuna felt it was just a misunderstanding?  No I think she got it.

Tags: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Culinary Workers, Nevada, caucus, Primaries, 2008 elections, president, Democrats (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 124 comments

  •  If the rules on this site (5+ / 0-)

    are applied evenly, you are about to be banned for copyright violation.

    You may be given a chance to fix, this I'm not sure about.

    "Stop the drama. Vote Obama!"

    by Number5 on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 12:11:46 AM PDT

  •  You can dispute a charge (6+ / 0-)

    But trashtalking must be your middle name.

    Tell me you're a thwarted basketball player who's short and that's how you think you win games.

    Calling someone a liar and a hack and accusing anyone  of some kind of bribery is just beyond the pale of acceptable political discourse.  Also doing any of the former based upon next to no evidence is not playing hardball, it's just dishonable.

    And don't say this is how politics are played, because if you are going to charge someone with lying then you better be damned certain that the story doesn't turn around and bite you with the truth.

  •  I'll add that the rules of this site... (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    ClaudeB, Bob Love, begone, MTmofo, Number5

    ...specifically disallow calling out other community members in diary titles.

    The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

    by Jay Elias on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 12:15:40 AM PDT

  •  Also, the Daily Kos FAQ reads: (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    ClaudeB, Dumbo, MTmofo

    Diary titles

    When choosing a title, please avoid the following:

    [...]

       * "Calling out" other users. This consists of referring to another user, by name, in the title of a diary with a negative connotation. So, diary titles of the form "UserX is a moron" are not allowed. More neutral titles like "A response to UserX" isn't technically "calling out", but many people will interpret it as such. The best strategy is simply not to mention other users in diary titles at all.

    Iz n ur t00bs, hijkn ur trux.

    by konscious on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 12:15:54 AM PDT

  •  It's important enough that you should adhere (6+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Bob Love, Ahianne, Turkana, begone, MTmofo, Number5

    to site recommendations.

    Remove the name from the title and trim the quotation to approx three paragraphs. More analysis would be appreciated, as anyone can copt and paste new articles.

    I still think the article, which I read, is quite revealing of something nasty going on here; threatening people with job loss unless they support a certain candidate is nasty, I don't care who is doing it, it's wrong.

    But like with all single person commentaries, I have to reserve judgement.

    "If you want to go quickly, go alone. If you want to go far, go together." We need to go far, quickly.

    by shpilk on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 12:21:17 AM PDT

  •  Sour FUCKING Grapes. (4+ / 0-)

    Perhaps we shouldn't have unions involved in caucuses.  If so, that's a valid point to bring up sometime BEFORE the caucus.  Or maybe we shouldn't allow unions to make endorsements.

    Last year, when Hillary Clinton and most of the Democratic establishment were laying out the calendar and putting the pieces on the board for this campaign, they thought it was just fine and dandy to have Nevada be the third primary so that the unions could have a bigger say.  I guess they never dreamed that the union might endorse somebody other than the "experienced" one.

    So now we have all this sour grapes stuff.  We have imaginary and exaggerated claims of union malfeasance (more on that later), and claims of unfairness in the caucus site arrangement which was made MONTHS AGO.  We have lawsuits by the Clintons to close down caucus sites on the Strip just days before the actual vote, days after all the voter information pamphlets had already been sent out.  The net result, of course, would have been thousands of Strip workers not voting at all.

    I guess it benefits somebody, no matter how you do it, eh?  Too bad it didn't benefit Hillary.  

    •  Speaking beyond the copyright stuff now edited (3+ / 0-)

      to 7 paragraphs ;)

      You are exactly right.

      each candidate spent months courting this union and others why? Because they know they carry their members.

      As for the intimidation this story is crazy to persue by the Clinton's for two reasons.

      1. Now that it is a big deal and obvious cover against retribution, why haven't others come forward to give credibility to the idea this is wide spread?
      1. How will other unions later in the race react to the Clinton's behavior and call out of union SOP?

      "Stop the drama. Vote Obama!"

      by Number5 on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 12:40:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  There have been other reports (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        roseeriter, phoenixdreamz

        but none documented so thourougly.  If you read the whole piece you see that there are other incidents which do not have this level of documentation

        Of course there are 2 pieces in Hullabaloo and MyDD by dday and Todd Beeton which also are about inciedent s witnessed.....by none other than Bill clinton supposedly

        •  So how many 5? (0+ / 0-)

          What about number 2?

          "Stop the drama. Vote Obama!"

          by Number5 on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 01:14:26 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't get your question (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            phoenixdreamz

            How many articles or how many incidents?

            Those 2 articles by dday at digby and Beeton at myDD.

            Inciedents the number is not knowable. I am not in Nevada to interview people.  Indeed a reporter has to believe there is enough truth to actually track  it down.  This reporter poohed poohed a very clear instance, so how much effort do you think he made in actually finding others...not so much I would think

            After all he didn't think Antuna's case was intimidation.  In his last article i Friday's Sun, (I can't t link my computer is acting weird)...he called that case legitimate...

            But I think any clear eyed view shows that's not persuasion but intimidation.

            I must close this computer before it shuts itself down.

    •  Factually incorrect: (5+ / 0-)

      "We have lawsuits by the Clintons to close down caucus sites on the Strip ..."

      The Clintons have filed no such lawsuit[s].

      "I cherished my hate like a badge of moral superiority." - Mark Rudd

      by Bob Love on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 12:48:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah, I'm quite sure that the Clintonites (0+ / 0-)

      would have no problem if arms were being twisted for their candidate-- hey, that's effective politics, right? and 'knowing how to win?'-- but they do tend to piss and moan when any institution that they can't control dares to cross them.

      It's one of the more unpleasant things unions do, but it's also exactly the reason Dems seek union endorsements, then look the other way.  GOPers do the same thing with religious institutions; last cycle I visited a friend who works for a megachurch, and she absolutely refused to discuss the election while we were in public in case a random member heard her express support for Kerry.

      And Joan Walsh is so in the tank for Clinton that I'm glad I let my Premium subscription lapse.  I understand that a lot of women of a certain age are feeling desperate about seeing a woman in the WH (I don't think 'seeing' is good enough, but that's another debate), but obvious desperation's no more becoming in politics than in more traditional areas like marriage and childbearing.  Or job-hunting, for that matter.

      "Conservative principles" are marketing props used by the Conservative Movement to achieve political power, not actual beliefs. -Glenn Greenwald

      by latts on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:15:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Here we go again. (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        phoenixdreamz

        I understand that a lot of women of a certain age are feeling desperate about seeing a woman in the WH (I don't think 'seeing' is good enough, but that's another debate)

        Thank you so very much for minimizing, sneering at, and generally shitting on the hopes and dreams of over half the population.   Class act, you are. I know the women on this board will really appreciate it, and that will be reflected in the voting booths.  So please, keep it up.

        "I'm for Hillary because I believe that the United States right now is in a world of crap." - spoken by a Nevada voter

        by SaneSoutherner on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 11:30:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Truth sometimes hurts. (0+ / 0-)

          And some of us are lifelong feminists who would rather face it head-on instead of playing the faux-sisterhood game.

          PS: one reason I almost universally loathe HRC supporters is the constant insult & derision they heap upon many of us who have been fighting feminist battles pretty much since puberty, and often without the access to power that a prominent husband provides.  I can live without that superficial-yet-bullying brand of feminism, thanks.

          "Conservative principles" are marketing props used by the Conservative Movement to achieve political power, not actual beliefs. -Glenn Greenwald

          by latts on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 01:04:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  doing the callout at 2:30am chicago time (10+ / 0-)

    so that bob does not have the possibility to respond until well after the diary's come and gone, is also really classy.

    if these people believe they saw a violation of the law, why aren't they reporting it to the labor board?

    my bet is that this disappears after the caucus, never to be mentioned again.

    surf putah, your friendly neighborhood central valley samizdat

    by wu ming on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 12:32:12 AM PDT

    •  Very thin on the Sam Giancana analogy (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      begone

      One confused incident doesn't a mafioso make...

      two thirds of the way down the cited article we find seperate news orgs trying to find more examples, but it ain't gonna happen.

      Still, despite Huerta's claim of widespread voter intimidation by the CWU, I haven't found another documented story like Antuna's. Matt DeFalco says at Paris, the union is only helping Obama supporters register to vote and get time off work. He says he distributed Clinton leaflets in the Paris cafeteria after the Antuna incident "and people were like, 'are you seriously passing those out here right now?' People are being intimidated into voting for Obama." But Mishak says he's investigated every voter intimidation claim "the Clinton campaign has been pushing" and that nothing, except perhaps Antuna's, deserves the term "intimidation." He adds: "It's surprising to me that people would be surprised a union would be saying to its members, 'You have to endorse our candidate. We need to win.'"

      Seems like a person like Penn, with extensive labor knowledge, would have a bevy of incidents ready/on call to holler intimidation.

      Poor planning.

      •  Thanks. I've been rereading that paragraph (2+ / 0-)

        and trying to figure out how it supports this diarist's
        case in a meaningful way.

        All we have that makes it tolerable is each other. (YetiMonk)

        by begone on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 12:42:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  HRC campaign is "half truths" and spin currently (0+ / 0-)

          Pre New Hampshire the gulliotine on Penn was sharpened, then NOTHING happened shakeup wise, besides putting MadDog Bill on the warpath.

          Yucca, union intimidation, voting present, Rezco, they are simply throwing shit and seeing what sticks.

          NOT a very cheery thought when pondering a HRC admin.

        •  read my reply to Theghostofkarlafayetucker (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          phoenixdreamz

          and then read the whole piece and then here's the comment I posted in the original diary by Bob Johnson

          http://www.dailykos.com/...

          If you look at the update by Mishik you will see one of the methods the union is emplying to control who caucuses.

          The casino mamagers it seems have to let some employees off, they can't all caucus because that means the place just stops, so how does the employee get the time off at the site to caucus...THE UNION CLEARS IT WITH THE EMPLOYER. the union, to cover this embarassment tells Antuna that they have cleared it with her employer so that she can go caucus.  Nice, huh?

      •  I had it in original post and had to edit it down (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        phoenixdreamz

        I wnated to be fair.  I wanted to put that in.  I had to cut it out and tried to put it in my own words.

        But nevertheless I think the reporter's original conclusions were not even warranted by his original piece in which even there Antune claims the union rep did indeed tell her that if she didn't caucus for Obama she couldn't caucus at all

        "But Antuna tells a different story. She said she was filling out a voter registration form when the union reps approached her about Obama. When she told them she wasn't sure about caucusing for him, one rep took her registration form, indeed telling her that she couldn't participate Saturday if she wasn't supporting Obama"

        So if Michael Mishik didn't think THAT was intimidation how can we trust his judgemnt about theother cases he investigated?

        •  "except perhaps Antuna's", and re-reading (0+ / 0-)

          the pressure mostly seems to come from peers, not bosses....

          I think this is simply a case of "exhuberance" by this union, admitted by everybody to be a maverick in politics, having the national spotlight on it due to leapfrogging ahead.

          Over and over, it was explained, that Nevada was going to be the barometer of latino voting, as SC would be for AA votes.

          So, lo and behold, Obama gets the nod and confusion commences, i.e. Antuna.  Swooped up into the press, a confusing narrative ensues.

          But thats the way politics works when partitioned in "blocs".

          •  the original piece was clear (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            phoenixdreamz

            The person who said she couldn't caucus was a union rep.  The audio intervies of Maria Angers said it was a union rep. In the 2 subseqeunt article Mishik wrote he said it was a union rep.

            Persuasion may have been by other members, but the coercion was only by the union rep.

            You think threatening people is exuberance?  I don't.

            •  "Sweetie", "honey",even the union rep's confused (0+ / 0-)

              co-workers Matt and Marie setting her straight...and confusion around the lunchroom when Matt and Marie hand out Clinton lit after the endorsement.....

              but "sweetie" and "honey" are not "Sam Giancana" type language, and the union organizers are feeling their oats.

              I don't think this can be viewed as anything but an incident, not arm-breaking mafia tactics.

            •  AND, speaking of Mafia-Giancana tactics (0+ / 0-)

              yesterdays "political note" was how Obama was basically anti-gambling, in words and deeds, just another addiction of the poor, odds favoring the House...

              HRC takes gambling lobby money.

              Roll of the dice on ALL Nevada politics.

      •  The Rolling Stone is reporting another incident (0+ / 0-)

        The Rolling Stone is reporting another incident at the Luxor.

        The first instance involves a food server at the Luxor who is also a shop steward for the Culinary Union and disagreed with the union’s Obama endorsement; she asked that her name not be used for fear of reprisal. The worker says she was told by the union that she would not be given time off to caucus if she did not pledge to vote for Obama. Ultimately, she complained to Luxor management and was assured she would be allowed to attend.

    •  Yes, *** *******'s the victim here. (0+ / 0-)

      He always is.

    •  that's silly and fishing for an excuse (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      phoenixdreamz

      Walsh posted this after midnight.  I read it after midnight.  I type slowly and badly, my computer is acting up....so I decided to post now because I am night owl and not an early bird.

      The facts are important to get out no matter the time.

      I mean you're up.

  •  CWU not CWA (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Lesser Dane

    Joan Walsh, editor of Salon, interviewed the CWA member who was intimidated by her CWA union rep.

    The CWA is not the same as the CWU.

    For what it's worth the CWA endorsed John Edwards.

    Please, read, rec, comment on my Diary today and help out if you can! Monday is My Birthday

    by Sagebrush Bob on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 12:44:36 AM PDT

  •  Dear diarist: (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    phoenixdreamz, SaneSoutherner

    Thank you very much for this interesting item. For those among us who have some experience with union organizing and with local politics yours is a useful and balanced analysis.

    Cordially,

    Forthcoming from the Orange Press: "Planet Marx."

    by Trotsky the Horse on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 12:51:54 AM PDT

  •  Well I don't know what it looked like before (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    phoenixdreamz

    but you sure got a lot of nit-picking last time I looked many things that are being called 'rules' are really 'guidelines'.

    It's a disturbing story, but I don't believe this kind of thing is widespread. I must say as a Union member, some unions must be much more powerful than mine. I cannot imagine a situation where my boss would give me time off (for anything) and the union would dare try to stop that.

    Some individuals are too competetive and don't know where to draw the line. Or it could be a late smear job, we won't know for sure until too late (if ever). I've been really impressed with Obama himself, and many of his supporters here make compelling cases, but to see someone abused for minor site rukes  as a thinly veiled attack upon the substance they oppose it turns me off.

    Keep up the good work - I usually love this season (primary season) but the nastiness is getting to me (and I usually complain about the campaigns not being rough enough).

    Love that "power of the purse!" It looks so nice up there on the mantle (and not the table) next to the "subpoena power."

    by Sacramento Dem on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 02:09:34 AM PDT

  •  Confused I am (0+ / 0-)

    Still, despite Huerta's claim of widespread voter intimidation by the CWU, I haven't found another documented story like Antuna's.

    But Mishak says he's investigated every voter intimidation claim "the Clinton campaign has been pushing" and that nothing, except perhaps Antuna's, deserves the term "intimidation."

    Don't these say that the only possible incident was Antuna of which there is still conflicting reports?  How does this refute what was previously posted?  Anyway, I fixed the tags to include the full candidate names and fixed the union name.

  •  I think the story is BS but TR? (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    tom3256

    Come on folks. Although this story sounds like more scummy Clinton bull crap we do not need to sink to Hillary "Evita" Clinton's level by disenfranchising this diarist.

  •  I like th diarist, but my only objection's Mafia (0+ / 0-)

    comparison.

    One confused Latina, ten confused lunchmates, instructions from "above" CWU/HRC who STILL don't know how the damn thing is gonna work.

    Can't blame Obama, blame the Iowa caucusers.

  •  Press reports (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    phoenixdreamz

    ...from the at-large precincts in NV should be very interesting. Given these strong-arm tactics, will the situation resemble cult compounds? Hostage situations? Or will there be a backlash?

    Hopefully the latter, as the union insurgents stand up for Hillary.

  •  It will all come out in the end. (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    phoenixdreamz

    This is not the first time the CWU in Vegas has used borderline tactics.

    People think that it's all about the caucus, and these leaders and reps smelled like a rose before that.  Nope.  Vegas papers have covered shady tactics by them LONG before this.

    "I'm for Hillary because I believe that the United States right now is in a world of crap." - spoken by a Nevada voter

    by SaneSoutherner on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 09:46:22 AM PDT

  •  so now that the real story is out (4+ / 0-)

    let's kill the messenger. You Obama partisan hacks are shameless. A union is actively engaging in voter intimidation and disenfranchisement and all you can think of is how to TR this diary? I am so ashamed of being a democrat now.

    •  Thanks for the Diary (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      phoenixdreamz, SaneSoutherner

      I'm glad that yet another progressive--Joan Walsh of Salon.com--has pointed out the truth. Not that Obama supporters--or Bob Johnson--want to hear it, clearly. The vitriol being directed at the diarist is part of a pattern of intimidation, coercion, character assassination and group-think that has become so evident here over the past few months.

      The truth is that this Union rep tried to coerce this union member. The reporter tried to coerce this worker a second time by framing the story as just a 'misunderstanding.'

      And, Bob Johnson smeared Taylor Marsh.

      "One good test as to whether folks are doing interesting work is, Can they surprise me? And..when I read Daily Kos, it doesn't surprise me...." ~~Barack Obama

      by SignalSuzie on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 10:42:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Taylor Marsh is STILL the hack and the liar. (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Dems2004

    As my post highlighted, Marsh tried to take this one story and make it into a widespread pattern, I wrote:

    Note her use of plural "members" in her post title and throughout her post. Nowhere does she present evidence of any such intimidation. She posts a radio interview with one of the Clinton-backing complaintants, Matt DeFalco, and infers that the alleged practice is widespread.

    As the Salon piece you highlight states:

    Still, despite Huerta's claim of widespread voter intimidation by the CWU, I haven't found another documented story like Antuna's. Matt DeFalco says at Paris, the union is only helping Obama supporters register to vote and get time off work. He says he distributed Clinton leaflets in the Paris cafeteria after the Antuna incident "and people were like, 'are you seriously passing those out here right now?' People are being intimidated into voting for Obama." But Mishak says he's investigated every voter intimidation claim "the Clinton campaign has been pushing" and that nothing, except perhaps Antuna's, deserves the term "intimidation." He adds: "It's surprising to me that people would be surprised a union would be saying to its members, 'You have to endorse our candidate. We need to win.'"

    So, yes, Taylor Marsh continues to be a lying hack. And you're no better.

  •  CWA is not the CWU (