Daily Kos

Obama Wins Nevada - Updated w/ Poll

Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 02:37:58 PM PDT

When considering Obama's Nevada victory and what it means to the overall race, I think it's best to first observe the facts of what happened yesterday, which were a matter of dispute between two dueling diaries on the rec list last night.  Each of the following are facts, not opinions.  


* There was no popular vote total reported in Nevada.


* Obama won 11 Nevada counties and Clinton won 6.


* Two delegate numbers came out of the Nevada election.  Clinton won more caucus delegates 51% to 45%, while Obama won more delegates to the national convention 13 to 12.


* Only the delegates to the national convention have any impact on the nomination.


* Every campaign, including the Clinton campaign, put out statements for days before Nevada about how this is a delegate race, and only delegates to the convention count.  They said this because it's true, and it's still true.


* The delegate count to the convention as a result of primary voting thus far has Obama ahead of Clinton by 2 delegates, 38 to 36, as explained below.


* Iowa: Obama 16, Clinton 15 - New Hampshire - Obama 9, Clinton 9 - Nevada: Obama 13, Clinton 12.



More below the fold...

* The defense by the Clinton campaign that those delegates could change prematurely assumes that the race is over (an unwise presumption to make if this year has taught us anything, even morseo for a campaign than for a pundit); the fact is that the only way the delegates could change before their final allocation in April is if Obama were to suddenly drop out and endorse Clinton before then.

* The Clinton campaign had no complaints about getting more delegates in Iowa than Edwards, despite getting less actual votes than Edwards; they also had (and will have) no problem having an institutional establishment advantage getting superdelegates, who have absolutely nothing to do with citizens voting at all.  And the fact is, whether that seems right or not, they were absolutely correct in both cases, because those are the rules in a game that's already started.  If they're stupid rules (they are), we can (and had better) change them before the next election is already in the middle of happening.  The fact is that in life, either we can all suck it up and play by rules that have been agreed upon at the beginning of a process, like adults, or we can complain midway when they don't benefit us at the moment; that goes for every campaign in this election, and their more boisterous supporters (this should just be common sense, but whomever one supports, crying wolf with crying foul in a public forum does not do one's candidate any favors).



With all that finally cleared up with cold hard facts, the question becomes what does Obama's win in Nevada mean to the race as a whole?

Much of the media coverage on TV and online has already begun to shift from "Hillary won" to "Split Decision", and by Monday morning may arrive at a full reversal; this is still in serious doubt though, as the media HATES reversing a call more than anything, vowing never again after the 2000 general election (although in this case it's not about the networks miscounting the data or prematurely calling the race, but simply reporting the wrong set of numbers; it's kind of like if the media, after all the confusion in 2000, had suddenly reported that Bush would not be President despite his electoral college lead - minus the warm feeling :) ). Certainly, though, if the media doesn't acknowledge the results of Nevada by tomorrow morning, they can expect a deluge of comments from citizens more than happy to remind them which delegates are actually relevant to the nomination process.  The only valid counterargument that the Clinton campaign could use in this situation is the one they desperately wish they had the claim to, and they one they hope voters are implicitly assuming as we speak: that Clinton won the popular vote in Nevada and thus the will of the voters - except, as noted, the popular vote total in Nevada was NOT reported, and remains unknown; the Clinton team is ultimately left with the argument that an irrelevant set of delegates are more important than the relevant delegates, and that doesn't fly.

That said, Obama's Nevada victory was about the least decisive win possible.  In that sense, it's the best possible type of win for him.  The last thing he needs are raised expectations, both due to the media guillotine that comes with them, as well as the fact that independent and younger voters are the historically the first to stay home if they think their guy is already ahead.  Winning delegates, all the while seeing Clinton being propped up again by higher insider expectations, is the best formula for Obama to move ahead.

However, a lot of the internal numbers in this win also remind those of us who want real change in Washington that we have to work hard for it in our own states, now, while it counts; volunteer, talk to friends, and get new people involved in the process (whether in open primaries, or closed primaries like my state of CT where one can change from unaffiliated to Democrat up to just days before the vote).  For Obama to decisively win the nomination anytime soon, we need all those aformentioned young people and independents to turn out in numbers more like Iowa than like NH or NV, particularly if the demographic support patterns in Nevada otherwise continue to hold nationwide for Obama (1-3 Latino support, down 25% with Whites), which they may or may not.

We can do it; Obama, with his combination of the Hart/Tsongas/Bradley voters and four out of five African Americans, is the demographically strongest underdog in modern Presidential primary politics.  But - he is still the underdog; the only thing that could make him go from underdog to landing a quick and decisive knockout blow is Iowa levels of young voters and independents.  One we pass a certain line with both groups in each state, it's a wave Clinton cannot overcome.  But we must work for every vote.  

If we are successful in this, we could shock everyone (most of all ourselves) and maybe even see a very decisive win on Super Tuesday (that otherwise, quite frankly, seems unlikely in either direction); if we are not successful, it will almost definitely be a long, long drawn out race, where the odds of winning are - at BEST - 51 to 49 against us. Let's get to work.

Updated 6:35 pm EST with poll:

Poll

Who won Nevada?

91%32 votes
8%3 votes

| 35 votes | Vote | Results

Tags: 2008 Presidential Election, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Nevada (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 89 comments

  •  Tip Jar (12+ / 0-)

    Tips/Flames?

    Obama/McCaskill vs. McCain/Jindal? Call it a funny feeling.

    by ShadowSD on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 02:38:55 PM PDT

  •  What is it with Obama supporters? (9+ / 0-)

    First you want every other candidate to drop out and now you don't want the popular vote in a state to determine who wins.

    •  Read the diary (5+ / 0-)

      It's NOT the popular vote.

      Obama/McCaskill vs. McCain/Jindal? Call it a funny feeling.

      by ShadowSD on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 02:45:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah but (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Jim J, jxg, emsprater

        the popular vote would probably be a little bit closer, but Clinton would be ahead.  Clinton won in the large population areas, and thats were the heart of the Democratic party is in this country.

        You can act like we don't know this, but its so obvious, and the arguements Obama supporters are making on this is just so transparent its hillarious.

        I know you all are spinning, and I know those Clinton supporters would be doing the same spin and even set up the pre-spin quotes for it to happen, but its still funny you all are going with it.

        •  It's been suggested that the popular vote would (4+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          askew, pseudopod, chicago jeff, dotster

          be closer, and we don't know how much closer, but we're supposed to assume without hard data?  That's not a very convincing argument; one cannot argue that the popular vote is the thing that matters most and at the same time say we don't need the exact total; we can just guess.  Based on what, probability?  Entrance polls?  I'm quite happy to do an electoral analysis of the future of the race based on that data, but I wouldn't determine the results of an election without actual real numbers; it's kind of troubling that you would.  That's a horrible precedent to set, even implicitly.

          Obama/McCaskill vs. McCain/Jindal? Call it a funny feeling.

          by ShadowSD on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 02:54:44 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  My personal opinion (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            Clem Yeobright, ShadowSD

            is the only thing that matters is momentum.  Clearly Obama didn't get it going out of Neveda.

            Had he won, and then picked up SC (like he probably will), that would have set him up very well for Feb 5th.

            My gut is that Clinton did not pick up much or any momentum from Nevada as well, but just the fact that she was able to stop Obama there is a victory when your not the insurgent candidate.

            When I really really look at wins/losses I look at it from a political trend standpoint.  In the end, that is where Nevada is likely to have its biggest impact in the race.

      •  I did read it (0+ / 0-)

        I was pointing out the twisted logic of the Obamaphiles.

        Either people matter or delegates matter. You guys talk about how Obama can bring people over yet when he loses the people you resort to the process. Call it what it is: spin.

    •  It never did (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      ShadowSD

      Read the party rules sometime.  Just because the media said it did doesn't mean it's reality.

    •  And they claim .... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      ClintB

      'victory' every time while still yelling 'fraud, fraud, fraud!'.

      Sheesh, I guess I just don't understand youth.

      "Hillary Hate" is a disease that will not be cured until after the primaries.

      by emsprater on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 02:59:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You might understand better if you bothered (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        askew, dotster

        to read the diary.  I don't understand how all you guys missed this, perhaps I should have put it in bold:

        "The fact is that in life, either we can all suck it up and play by rules that have been agreed upon at the beginning of a process, like adults, or we can complain midway when they don't benefit us at the moment; that goes for every campaign in this election, and their more boisterous supporters (this should just be common sense, but whomever one supports, crying wolf with crying foul in a public forum does not do one's candidate any favors)."

        I guess you skimmed over that part.

        Obama/McCaskill vs. McCain/Jindal? Call it a funny feeling.

        by ShadowSD on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 03:10:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  No, I read it. (0+ / 0-)

          It might help you to know that one well placed phrase that allows one to claim the veil of 'impartiality' really doesn't do so well in covering the rest of the posed content.  Especially one so transparent as this.

          "Hillary Hate" is a disease that will not be cured until after the primaries.

          by emsprater on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 03:16:21 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  nucking futs. (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      ClintB

      That's what is up with them.

      "It's a race to decide who the British goverment will follow blindly for the next 4 years" Kennedy/Kerry '08

      by Salo on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 03:12:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  There was no popular vote (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      askew, ShadowSD, tom3256

      What're you talking about?  Primaries aren't even popular vote, they go by CD too...

  •  LOL (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    ClintB, Owllwoman

    this is old news for the blogosphere. We ranted over this yesterday...

  •  Give it a rest (9+ / 0-)

    Holy crap. We might as well just not have elections, since apparently the winner is whoever you want it to be.

    •  Nice unfounded attack (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      pseudopod, chicago jeff

      Care to challenge any of the factual assertions in the diary?

      Obama/McCaskill vs. McCain/Jindal? Call it a funny feeling.

      by ShadowSD on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 02:46:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I read your diary (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        ShadowSD

        and I understand your point. But until the popular vote total comes out, this really isn't necessary. Edwards didn't come in third in Iowa, even though he got less delegates. He came in second.

        •  I actually mentioned that in the diary (0+ / 0-)

          in the course of defending Clinton:

          "The Clinton campaign had no complaints about getting more delegates in Iowa than Edwards, despite getting less actual votes than Edwards; they also had (and will have) no problem having an institutional establishment advantage getting superdelegates, who have absolutely nothing to do with citizens voting at all.  And the fact is, whether that seems right or not, they were absolutely correct in both cases, because those are the rules in a game that's already started.  If they're stupid rules (they are), we can (and had better) change them before the next election is already in the middle of happening."

          Obama/McCaskill vs. McCain/Jindal? Call it a funny feeling.

          by ShadowSD on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 03:12:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I now realize I misread part of your post (0+ / 0-)

          But let me just add that if Clinton edges out Obama on Super Tuesday for delegates, but Obama wins more of the popular vote, I guarantee you won't see any of the Clinton supporters in this diary complaining that the media is focusing on the wrong results.

          Obama/McCaskill vs. McCain/Jindal? Call it a funny feeling.

          by ShadowSD on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 06:45:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Listen idiot. She won the election in (12+ / 2-)

    Nevada yesterday.  The percentages of delegates reflect the popular vote.  Obama didn't come close.  He lost by 6%.  Anyone who loses by 6% and still claims victory has no respect for democracy.  You might as well be George W. Bush.

    Alternative rock with something to say: http://www.myspace.com/globalshakedown

    by khyber900 on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 02:44:29 PM PDT

    •  TR'd for personal attack (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      pseudopod

      You also seem to have no shame from the cognitive dissonance that comes from you saying "The percentages of delegates reflect the popular vote" and then in the same breath disparaging that point of view as undemocratic.

      Obama/McCaskill vs. McCain/Jindal? Call it a funny feeling.

      by ShadowSD on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 02:48:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The troll rating is out of line ShadowSD (7+ / 0-)

        I know the comment wasn't that good, I agree with you there.  But the person was obviously not a troll.  You could get your rights removed on this site for doing that.

        I'd recommend you reconsider your rating, and realize that the same way you are heated right now, so are others.

        •  Thank you for the advice (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          NickC, chicago jeff

          That's the second troll rating I've ever given in over a year of posting here.  I've now removed it.  

          I was under the impression, though, that a personal attack warranted a troll rating, despite the record of the user in question otherwise.  Was I incorrect in this reading of the rules?

          Obama/McCaskill vs. McCain/Jindal? Call it a funny feeling.

          by ShadowSD on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 02:56:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Hey I understand (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            chicago jeff, ShadowSD

            I barely troll rate myself, but have changed my rating sometimes after reconsideration.

            In terms of personal attacks, its tough to say.  My rule of thumb is how bad was the attack from the normal here.  Him calling you an idiot was out of line, but that happens a lot on this site.  I think something worse may have warranted it, but not that.

            When you write a diary though like this, you have to expect some of that. We all get a mouth full every now and then.  Primary seasons get heated too, so it happens.  I get in some battles with others that I wish I didn't myself as well.

            In the end though, I think you made the right decision.  So kudos to you for that.

            •  This is a pretty tame diary. (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              ShadowSD

              Perhaps the lashing out against ShadowSD is not because his/her diary is threatening to khyber900 but because the khyber900 feels threatened by the results in Nevada that ShadowSD is describing.

              Pretty unfair.

              I'll remove my TR if khyber900 addresses his/her own behavior constructively.

          •  It looks bad... (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            ShadowSD

            ...for you to TR someone who has called you an idiot.  If the remark should be TRed, let someone else do it.  Otherwise it looks like nothing more than retaliation.

            •  Good point (0+ / 0-)

              The funny thing is that I actually based my TR on the fact that someone else had already done so on my behalf (VirginiaDem); I thought that gave me more levity.

              But then again, no one can tell who troll rated a comment first, can they?  So you're absolutely right.  

              Obama/McCaskill vs. McCain/Jindal? Call it a funny feeling.

              by ShadowSD on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 03:27:08 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  This line of argument is stupid and I'm tired (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        ClintB

        of reading it on this site.  Obama lost because he didn't get more votes than Hillary, plain and simple.  She got 51% of the vote in a 3 person race.  That is outstanding.

        People on this site don't want to accept that fact and want to immediately claim voter suppression (ironic since it was the Obama supporting culinary union that threatened this), or that the popular vote totals weren't released, or they want to intentionally mislead people about the delegate issue (they aren't apportioned until the state convention).  

        Obamamaniacs tried to diminish Hillary's NH victory by claiming the Bradley Effect (a load of bullshit).  Now they take another cue from that snake David Axelrod to claim that she didn't really win Nevada.  I believe a lot of these Obamaniac posters are paid by the campaign to stir up rumors that emanate from Axelrod's mouth, a la Karl Rove.

        I can't wait until Feb. 5, when Hillary sweeps through those primaries, winning well over half of them.  But I'm sure the Obamaniacs will claim that her majority is made up of people who weren't eligible to vote.  Every person who writes this kind of anti-Hillary conspiratorial crap should be troll rated in my view.  

        Alternative rock with something to say: http://www.myspace.com/globalshakedown

        by khyber900 on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 03:04:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Let's count the biggest mistakes in your post (0+ / 0-)

          1. How did she get "51% of the vote" if the "popular vote totals weren't released"?  
          1. Yes, Hillary won 51% of the caucus delegates, but it has been universally suggested that the popular vote was closer.  So when you turn around and say "51% of the vote", you know that is almost certainly incorrect.  But you say it anyway.  
          1. I am an Obama small donor and supporter, but am not employed by anyone in the campaign.  As a matter of fact, if you've been keeping up with the news, the campaign is taking a different approach with this than I am here, so I'm not "taking a cue" from them at all; they are not demanding the media say Obama won, but simply pushing the more concilliatory "split decision" story that is consistent with the observation of neutral Democratic observers like James Clyburn.  I am advocating something completely different; I believe it is the duty of the media to report the delegate count that is relevant over the delegate count that is irrelevant, completely aside from my support of Obama.  If you doubt that, notice that all the facts I cited with bullet points made my point entirely without any subjective opinion tacked on; if you can't dispute any of those individual facts, you have no leg to stand on in your counterargument.

          Obama/McCaskill vs. McCain/Jindal? Call it a funny feeling.

          by ShadowSD on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 03:25:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Perhaps "idiot" is a bit much. (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Jim J, emsprater

      He can type and spin, after all.  But since your comment also states the facts, I can't see how any fairminded Kossack can throw a donut at you.

    •  You can't prove that (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      ShadowSD

      And furthermore, the popular vote doesn't matter in a caucus.

      •  LOL (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        emsprater

        all valid points, but hillarious Obama supporters are the ones making this arguement.  This was the arguement the Clinton supporters were suppose to make after Neveda, which all you would have largely called ridiculous :)

        Campaign spin is somewhat amusing.  I can put up with it for today.  Hopefully tommorrow we spend our time remembering Dr. King and others though, and put our differences aside.

        •  Good points (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          NickC, pseudopod

          But I think that every fact I hit with my bullet point was indeed a legitimate fact.  If a Hillary supporter had thrown the exact same argument at me had the results of Nevada been reversed, I honestly don't know what my counterargument would be to those bullet point facts (not the subsequent analysis that follows the bullet points, which is a touch more subjective).  That's what tells me that the reasoning is sound aside from my admittedly heavy bias towards my preferred candidate.

          Obama/McCaskill vs. McCain/Jindal? Call it a funny feeling.

          by ShadowSD on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 03:04:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Hehe (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            ShadowSD

            maybe you would not, but believe me, as long as there is a Clinton/Obama supporter left on this site, they'll find a way to say any arguement against there candidate is foolish :)

            Again, I just find it funny.  I'm not arguing the merit of the facts, at least I hope I didn't above.  My main thinking is this all basically after campaign spin.  I look at things from a momentum standpoint more.

            In that sense I think Clinton won just because Obama did not come out of Neveda with a clear win, and whenever the insurgent candidate deosn't get a clear win, the establishment candidate wins.

    •  khyber900... (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      NickC, Elise, tom3256

      idiot

      Reserved for Rush Limbaugh and people who do something really wrong (morally or empirically).

    •  Let's see if these upraters lose (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      ShadowSD

      their ability to rate. Last I checked, "idiot" was a personal attack and this is indeed a personal attack.

      Of course, they're calling an Obama supporter an idiot...that seems to be okay. Along with brainwashed maniacs, and "nucking futs" as Salo notes above.

      Apparently it's cool to call Obama supporters names...but not cool to do it to anyone else.

    •  lol (0+ / 0-)

      Hillarious!

      Not that I disagree but so strongly stated!

  •  so (9+ / 0-)

    hillary came in second in iowa, not third? never heard any of her supporters make that claim.

  •  KUCINICH WON NEVADA! (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Turkana, ClintB, emsprater, demer

    Full Disclosure: I am Chair of the Darius Shahinfar for Congress Campaign Committee in NY-21.

    by Andrew C White on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 02:49:16 PM PDT

  •  Translation: (6+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Jim J, jxg, Lying eyes, Turkana, ClintB, emsprater

    Nevada uses an unfair system that gives rural voters more say in selecting delegates than urban voters.

    Hillary had more people going to caucuses for her by a comfortable margin, but because Obama won in rural areas whose voters are favored, he won.

    Yay!

    I suppose you're also celebrating that Bush "beat" Gore in 2000, despite losing the popular vote by 500,000

    •  Nope, because that was the actual (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      pseudopod, chicago jeff

      popular vote.

      This race in Nevada was not.  Please read the diary before commenting, let alone translating.

      Obama/McCaskill vs. McCain/Jindal? Call it a funny feeling.

      by ShadowSD on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 02:59:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Why would we "celebrate" something bad? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      ShadowSD

      ShadowSD isn't celebrating a "victory for caucus math" over simple head counts.

      ShadowSD is celebrating Barack Obama's relative success in Nevada.  That's a good thing for people who want Obama to get enough delegates at the convention to be our nominee.  

      I think you misunderstand ShadowSD's diary.

  •  Check with Nevada Dem's (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    emsprater, chicago jeff

    The Nevada Democratic Party placed a statement on the top of their website stating that the AP report is correct. The AP report states that Clinton Won 13 Delegates to 12 for Obama.

    I do not have a candidate preference, just a truth one.

    •  I was under the impression that the AP (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      ShadowSD

      corrected their initial mistake -

      UPDATE 7:12 p.m.: AP and NBC have now changed their delegate counts to 13 for Obama and 12 for Clinton.

      Link.

    •  I'm sorry (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Elise

      You are mistaken, the AP report they are referring to is the revised one Elise linked above.  RealClearPolitics and other sites that keep track of the delegate count all back up the Obama 13, Clinton 12 result.

      However, given that there were two AP reports that said two opposite things, anyone could have made the same mistake.

      Obama/McCaskill vs. McCain/Jindal? Call it a funny feeling.

      by ShadowSD on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 03:32:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm embarrassed for you and for this diary (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    dcrolg, ClintB, emsprater

    If there was any justice in this world you would be laughed right off this site for this.

  •  In which case (0+ / 0-)

    You'll be adding that Obama didn't win Iowa, right?

  •  Do yourself a favor; analyze the data, all of it (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    ClintB

    Look who voted for the candidates since NH -- check the demographics.  Look at their trends lines.  Now, check the demos of the upcoming states, all of them.  Check the demos as a function of voter registration as a whole and those who vote, by party and in national elections.

    The relentless obviousness of humble math.

    Obama didnt win in NV; he lost because his numbers are trending down and his demos aren't there in the upcoming primaries.  HRC has found the message to the bigger mass in the Democratic party.  Obama can't change his message at this point to cut into that mass.

    She may "lose" SC, but assuming her demos still remain high, then its a validation of her upcoming triumph on Feb 5th.

    Obama knows all of this -- That's why no one is cheering verymuch about NV and Clinton is.

    Obama's numbers are not there.

    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -- Mark Twain.

    by dcrolg on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 03:05:38 PM PDT

  •  /yawn (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    ClintB

    Feb 5th can't come soon enough.

  •  This is nuttier then a squirrels bowels. (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    ClintB

    After Obama lost New Hampshire all any Obama supporter or Obama camp member could talk about was how racist the Clinton's were. After Clinton won Michigan all any Obama supporter could talk about was how Michigan didn't matter, and she didn't win by enough anyway. Now all we you can talk about after she won Nevada is how she lost Nevada because the popular vote is meaningless.

    When Obama wins South Carolina I'll be sure to post how he actually lost because states that begin with direction belong to England anyway.

    Hillary Clinton's Liberal Ranking http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/10/122232/619

    by tigercourse on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 03:56:13 PM PDT

    •  Who said the popular vote is meaningless? (0+ / 0-)

      Not me.

      Read the diary.  There was no popular vote recorded.  We're talking about two sets of delegate counts, one relevant to the national convention, one not.  I think the delegates that are relevant are the ones that should be reported, regardless of who the candidates are.  

      Instead of not reading my arguments and judging me by the comments of others, maybe you should try addressing the merits of this point.

      Obama/McCaskill vs. McCain/Jindal? Call it a funny feeling.

      by ShadowSD on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 04:07:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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