Daily Kos

The ACLU, Pandemic Preparedness, and You

Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 05:47:31 AM PDT

There's a series of posts I've done for Daily Kos about how the Feds are preparing for an influenza pandemic, including disaster preparedness, and pandemic preparedness, as well as a review of the National Response Framework that the federal government uses to approach disasters and disaster management. A recent position paper by the ACLU has brought this back into the headlines. How far the Feds can and will go to contain a pandemic and protect your health is an important topic both to discuss and to track. The ACLU report provides an opportunity to review selected aspects of this topic.

Background

Flu pandemics are different than other disasters because they are extensive (they happen everywhere), significant (a quarter of the population might be affected, with a third of the population unable to report for work because of illness or health care obligations for dependents and others) and require careful planning to help prevent spread of disease as well as to mitigate the disruption a pandemic would bring to our worldwide just-in-time economic system. One aspect of this planning includes the use, and consideration of, isolation and quarantine at the beginning of a pandemic outbreak, when containment is still theoretically feasible (although many experts doubt if containment is indeed ever feasible). From Flu Wiki:

Isolation and quarantine are two public health strategies designed to protect the public by preventing exposure to infected or potentially infected persons.

In general, isolation refers to the separation of persons who have a specific infectious illness from those who are healthy and the restriction of their movement to stop the spread of that illness. Isolation is a standard procedure used in hospitals today for patients with tuberculosis and certain other infectious diseases.

Quarantine, in contrast, is very unusual and generally refers to the separation and restriction of movement of persons who, while not yet ill, have been exposed to an infectious agent and therefore may become infectious. Quarantine of exposed persons is a public health strategy that is intended to stop the spread of infectious disease.

Both isolation and quarantine may be conducted on a voluntary basis, and this is usual, or compelled on a mandatory basis through legal authority.

Back in 2005, George Bush held a news conference in which he proposed military intervention.

The United States may need to quarantine regions of the country if localized outbreaks of a pandemic flu occur, US President George Bush said today during a press conference in Washington, DC.

Bush suggested expanding presidential power over state-run National Guard operations to implement such quarantines in the event of a pandemic.

By executive order (April 1, 2005) pandemic influenza was added to the Public Health Service Act of 2003 as a quarantine disease. However, there was considerable push-back from the public health community at that time (link is to a Boston Globe op-ed from George Annas:

WHENEVER THE world is not to his liking, President Bush has a tendency to turn to the military to make it better. The most prominent example is the country's response to 9/11, complete with wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. After Hurricane Katrina, Bush belatedly called on the military to assist in securing New Orleans, and has since suggested that Congress should consider empowering the military to be the ''first responders" in any national disaster.

On Tuesday, the president suggested that the United States should confront the risk of a bird flu pandemic by giving him the power to use the US military to quarantine ''part[s] of the country" experiencing an ''outbreak." So we have moved quickly in the past month, at least metaphorically, from the global war on terror to a proposed war on hurricanes, to a proposed war on the bird flu.

Of all these proposals, the use of the military to attempt to contain a flu pandemic on US soil is the most dangerous...

Planning makes sense. But planning for ''brutal" or ''extreme" quarantine of large numbers or areas of the United States would create many more problems than it could solve...

Public health in the 21st century should be federally directed, but effective public health policy must be based on trust, not fear of the public.

Since then, and until recently, the voluntary nature of quarantine and containment has been stressed by CDC, HHS and federal disaster planners.

Contemporary Concerns

On Monday of this week, the ACLU issued a strongly-worded report entitled Pandemic Preparedness: The Need for a Public Health — Not a Law Enforcement/National Security — Approach, co-authored by George Annas, the same author of the Boston Globe editorial from 2005 (more after the flip).

  • ::

Here's a summary from CIDRAP, which also includes reactions to the plan:

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) this week charged that federal pandemic planning efforts rely too heavily on law enforcement and national security approaches, in effect making people, not disease, the enemy.

The ACLU aired its concerns in a report authored by three prominent public health law attorneys and released Jan 14 at a press conference in Washington, DC. The authors are George Annas and Wendy K. Mariner from the Boston University School of Public Health and Wendy E. Parmet of Northeastern Law School.

The report discusses a wide range of privacy protections and other civil liberties that the ACLU believes might be threatened in a pandemic setting. The authors include a list of recommendations intended to focus pandemic planning efforts more toward community engagement, as well as an appendix that covers a number of constitutional issues that could surface during a pandemic.

"A law enforcement approach is just the wrong tool for the job when it comes to fighting disease," said Barry Steinhardt, director of the ACLU's technology and liberty program, in a Jan 14 press release. He said history shows that a coercive approach to pandemic that treats sick people as enemies is ineffective from a public health perspective.

But a spokesman for the US Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) says the group has mischaracterized the government's efforts. Also, other critics with expertise in public health and the law say the ACLU report is marred by a misunderstanding of government response plans.

One of the more interesting aspects of the debate is the discussion of using an 'all-hazards approach', meaning that the plans for preparedness can be adapted for "whatever hazard comes", rather than concentrating on pandemics alone. This makes the idea easier to adopt, especially for financially strapped local municipalities. But the approach has its drawbacks.  

Michael T. Osterholm, PhD, MPH, said he doesn't think health officials will be able to contain an emerging pandemic and that the ACLU report misses the mark because it doesn't seem to consider aspects of the federal plan outside of initial containment. "Is this a law enforcement based approach? It's not, no way," said Osterholm, who is director of the University of Minnesota Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy, publisher of CIDRAP News.

However, Osterholm said he agrees with the ACLU's criticism of the government's emphasis on an all-hazards approach to disaster preparedness. Planning for a pandemic presents many unique challenges, he said. For example, the long duration of a severe pandemic, unlike a disaster such as the 9/11 terrorist attacks, would lead to a collapse of the nation's just-in-time economy, Osterholm said.

A major aspect of the report has to do with federal vs state responsibilities:

Steven Gravely, a public health law expert who is a partner and head of the healthcare practice group at Troutman Sanders, a law firm in Richmond, Va., said he doesn't think the ACLU report is a fair assessment of the nation's pandemic planning efforts. "It focuses too much on the federal level and doesn't recognize that disaster response—pandemics, particularly—is handled by several governments: local, state, tribal, federal, and international," Gravely told CIDRAP News.

"What jumped out at me is their discussion of quarantine and isolation," he said. "Though they characterize the federal plan as militaristic, 95% of isolation and quarantine is done at the state level. Federal involvement in quarantine is extremely limited."

Even in the Andrew Speaker [tuberculosis] case, the federal isolation order was in force for just a few days, and then the state of Colorado took over, Gravely said.

It is a fact that the plan puts a great deal of emphasis on local response, so much so that the Federal plan has been described as

having two components: the first is procurement of vaccines and antivirals for stockpiles and sale to states at a discount; the second is to leave everything to the locals.

It's so true that the local entities are struggling with this. And just as an 'all-hazards approach' has good (more attractive to adopt, more cost-effective and more efficient) and bad (not enough attention to the uniqueness of pandemics) aspects, so does the fed vs local response. From a civil liberties perspective, this might be a case where local is protective of rights (but then again, I live in New England). Still the specific recommendations (.pdf, page 24) of the ACLU are worth emphasizing:

Protecting Health

  1. The government should ensure stockpiling and fair and efficient distribution of vaccines, medications, food, water, and other necessaries in the event of a pandemic.
  1. Distribution and rationing decisions for vaccination and treatment should be based on the goal of minimizing the detrimental health effects of the pandemic.
  1. Public health measures must not be based on race, color, ethnicity, national origin, religion, gender or sexual orientation and can be based on age or disability only if there is good reason to believe particular groups are either at much higher risk of death or have a much higher likelihood of spreading the disease if not vaccinated or treated.
  1. Access to vaccination or treatment should not be conditioned on a waiver of one’s constitutional rights.
  1. The government and the private sector should encourage and support the development of rapid, accurate diagnostic tests for infectious diseases that reduce the possibility for error in identifying individuals who have a dangerous contagious disease.
  1. Non-emergency programs to protect the public’s health should be supported in order to develop and preserve a healthy population that can optimally survive emergencies.
  1. Government plans for responding to a pandemic should be based on the concept of community engagement, rather than individual responsibility.

Conclusions

Individual responsibility is important and cannot be avoided, but individuals cannot replace the role of the community. we agreed with that when we founded Flu Wiki in 2005, as it was meant to foster both a community and an individual response.

The purpose of the Flu Wiki is to help local communities prepare for and perhaps cope with a possible influenza pandemic. This is a task previously ceded to local, state and national governmental public health agencies.

In addition, recommendation #6, the part about rebuilding public health infrastructure, is a key component of preparedness and, in reality, the ultimate all-hazard approach. Like its companion, the health care system, the next president has a big job ahead of them in terms of making sure our decaying health system is up to snuff.

For personal preparation, see Get Pandemic Ready, a new web page for those just starting out (the ACLU says the government should help people stockpile, not just tell them to do so. Well, this Idaho web site helps by telling you how, and with this MN one, is a valuable resource).

There's more in the report, and specific recommendations are also made on the topics of Protecting Liberty, Protecting Privacy and Protecting Democracy. Because these are such important issues, the legal section of the Flu Wiki was one of the first pages we created. The issues raised in the ACLU report have not been settled by the feedback, and there will be more to say on this rich topic.

For anyone who wants a more detailed look, read the report itself, and inspect the Flu Wiki legal and ethics links. Legal aspects should not be totally divorced from ethical considerations. For example (this from the SARS experience), if someone is quarantined, how do they collect a paycheck? Who feeds them? Issues like this are always best discussed before a pandemic hits; by the time it actually does, it's too late for anything but survival.

Tags: disaster preparedness, pandemic preparedness, ACLU, health, science, medicine, pandemics (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 97 comments

  •  Excellent diary (11+ / 0-)

    But if the human race has proven one thing during its brief, disastrous reign as "king of the beasts," it's that it never prepares for anything in advance, but just picks up the pieces later.

    And what's been the downside so far, on a population level? All the lost parts have been easily replaceable.

    (sorry...haven't had my coffee yet.)

    •  the best analogy is the hurricane one (15+ / 0-)

      rebuilding the levees before the cat 5 storm hits is more cost effective than doing so after. More ethical, more safe, more sensible... but more cost effective.

      Somehow, only that last seems to matter these days.

      For a real (not made up, it can't happen) eye-opening review, see the SARS Commission report.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by DemFromCT on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 06:00:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  let's hope we have the needed 12 months (7+ / 0-)

        to gain competence at the federal level for handling this type emergency.

        Support democracy at home and abroad, join the ACLU & Amnesty International http://www.aclu.org and http://takeaction.amnestyusa.org Your voice is needed!

        by tnichlsn on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 06:30:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Simple solution, w/ ingredients and instructions (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          tnichlsn

          Everyone has the necessary ingredients:

          Ingredients:

          Ankles - 2
          Legs - 2
          Hands - 2
          Head - 1
          Lips - 2
          Ass - 1

          Instructions:

          1. Using both hands grab both ankles firmly
          1. Insert head between legs as far as possible
          1. Pucker lips and kiss ass goodbye
          1. Don't forget to smile using lips after step 3

          Simple, saves time, money and listening to Harry and Nancy explain why it's not a priority just yet because they don't want to upset any Republicans by pointing out that reality may just be more than a liberal plot against all they hold dear.

          Go Pats!!!

          "He not busy being born is busy dying." R. Zimmerman

          by RUKind on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 09:33:56 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  lol... yeah well. I'm keeping a few months worth (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            splashy

            of canned goods on my basement shelves. just in case...

            Support democracy at home and abroad, join the ACLU & Amnesty International http://www.aclu.org and http://takeaction.amnestyusa.org Your voice is needed!

            by tnichlsn on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 09:47:13 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I would amend your statement... (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        DemFromCT

        Somehow, only that last seems to matter these days.

        ...to 'Somehow, not even that last seems to matter these days.'

        California's levy system (in the greater San Francisco area especially) has been called completely insufficient.  And then there was Katrina, which showed in graphic detail what an insufficient levy system can do.  And now?  We're still not working on them.

        Of course, our governor does hate San Francisco and wish everyone there would die, in basically so many words.  (We didn't vote for him, see.)  So I guess it's to be expected, right?

        -fred

  •  If a knock-down, drag-out pandemic does occur (14+ / 0-)

    then all bets are off as far as civil liberties go.  Even a Democratic president might feel tempted to suspend all kinds of civil liberties to keep the disease in check.

    And if the Republicans were in power at the time...shudder.

    Hell, they might even be willing to fake a pandemic to keep in power.

    You can't reason someone out of something they weren't reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

    by A Mad Mad World on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 05:53:26 AM PDT

  •  My grandfather died 90 yr ago of the flu (5+ / 0-)

    but none of his civil liberties were violated, so I guess it's okay....

    You kids behave or I'm turning this universe around RIGHT NOW! - god

    by Clem Yeobright on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 05:56:06 AM PDT

    •  I take your point, Clem (10+ / 0-)

      I actually was writing about the 1918 flu epidemic recently...it firts came over from Europe to New York aboard a couple of cruise ships...there had been epidemics on board, with deaths, and the crew said it was influenza.

      But the New York City health commissioner scoffed at that, said it was just garden-variety colds, and didn't institute a quarantine. Within a week the disease had exploded across the city, and within a week or so more there were listings by borough in the newspapers: new cases and deaths, in the dozens, then hundreds each day in each borough. So many people died within a month that there was no one left to bury them, and hundreds of coffins lay piled on the ground.

      I think, whether we impinge on civil liberties or not, we will never be prepared for something like that epidemic. I don't think our species is capable of enough forethought.

    •  Irony and Anecdote (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      splashy, Clem Yeobright

      Which proves that your grandfather was not Eugene Debs or anyone else on the Red List of Attorney General Palmer.

      As for a historical anecdote, my mother's first recollection--as a four year old in Portland, Oregon--was of the "body wagons."  With the undertakers overwhelmed or just plain scared, the city had to collect the bodies of flu's victims.  The drivers drove through the streets, shouting out "body wagons" to notify the public to bring out out the corpses.

  •  They aren't shouting it (12+ / 0-)

    from the rooftops, but basically if there is an avian flu outbreak, the federal public health response will make the FEMA response to Katrina look competent.

    I could have been a soldier... I had got part of it learned; I knew more about retreating than the man that invented retreating. --Mark Twain

    by NogodsnomastersMary on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 06:01:51 AM PDT

  •  As I recall, (9+ / 0-)

    Didn't the 1918-1919 Flu Pandemic break out here in the U.S. from the military to infect the population? Soldiers coming home from WWI brought it with them and it spread?

    What makes Bush Co. think that it WON'T effect the military...up to and including Blackwater?

  •  Are All Sections of Country Treated the Same? (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    SaraBeth, Cassandra Waites

    The United States may need to quarantine regions of the country if localized outbreaks of a pandemic flu occur, US President George Bush said today during a press conference in Washington, DC.

    Quarantining New York City or LA is quite different from quarantining a small sparsely populated rural area.

    It would appear that big cities would be the first to be affected because of travel.

    How would this affect the busy workforce - and what financial social services would be provided to those who are not allowed to work - as well as their families - for the duration of their sicknesses?

    Also how will large and small business survive with an uncertain regional workforce?

    http://www.dailykos.com/user/SECURITY

    by SECURITY on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 06:20:18 AM PDT

    •  Actually, I think cities might be the easiest to (5+ / 0-)

      quarantine...but it would probably lead to a lot more deaths... Small towns would probably quarantine themselves, especially if they have no infections...

      "How would this affect the busy workforce - and what financial social services would be provided to those who are not allowed to work - as well as their families - for the duration of their sicknesses?"

      Doubtful if any. As this would effect everyone. Business owners, landlords, shop keepers, police, fire, city, state and federal governments...A lot of people sicken and die during a pandemic. There is no predicting with any real accuracy who is going to get it and who is not.

      This is why Emergency Management Agencies have been trying for YEARS to get individuals to prepare for disasters... Food, water, medications, other supplies...yes, even money. The standard is to be prepared for at least 72 hours. This allows for rescue and relief to reach the victims after things like tornadoes, earthquakes, hurricanes...

      Trouble is, planning for emergencies is somehow viewed these days as "silly"... or "survivalist"....Yes...it is about survival. And we saw clearly the effects of NOT being prepared on all levels in New Orleans.

      I personally have prepared for two months, for both myself and my husband with some extra for family if they come here. And if I can I will be adding to those preps to extend them for six months.

      "Also how will large and small business survive with an uncertain regional workforce?"

      Some will simply go out of business. It will depend upon who survives.

  •  the military is really bad at policing (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    splashy, Native Light

    I'm not sure how we should handle a pandemic, but I'd hate to see the military used.  

  •  threat level recently downplayed at (5+ / 0-)

    voiced by the head of the World Organization for Animal Health (OIE), Bernard Vallat

    Vallat said, "The risk was overestimated." "We have never seen a virus which has been so stable for so long," Vallat was quoted as saying.

    who was later criticized by his peers.

    experts such as Dr. Kathy Neuzil, MD, chair of the Infectious Diseases Society of America's (IDSA's) Pandemic Influenza Task Force, countered that the virus has been known to mutate many times already and that both science and history suggest it still represents a very real threat.

    Error on the side of caution is always the best course of action when dealing with health issues... my opinion.

    Support democracy at home and abroad, join the ACLU & Amnesty International http://www.aclu.org and http://takeaction.amnestyusa.org Your voice is needed!

    by tnichlsn on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 06:22:46 AM PDT

    •  the precautionary principle (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      tnichlsn, splashy, Rick Winrod, Deep Harm

      see SARS, written up here.

      We must remember SARS because it holds lessons we must learn to protect ourselves against future outbreaks, including a global influenza pandemic predicted by so many scientists. If we do not learn from SARS and we do not make the government fix the problems that remain, we will pay a terrible price in the next pandemic.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by DemFromCT on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 06:27:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  people forget how SARS mysteriously popped up (4+ / 0-)

        in Toronto and claimed more than a few lives before the alarm bells went off on overseas travel. And SARS was a sneeze compared to what this strain has the potential to unleash.

        Support democracy at home and abroad, join the ACLU & Amnesty International http://www.aclu.org and http://takeaction.amnestyusa.org Your voice is needed!

        by tnichlsn on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 06:35:35 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Great debate question: Mil or Civ pandemic plan (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    SaraBeth, Rick Winrod

    Tell the candidates in advance it was a question so they could read up on the issue and tell us how they would approach the issue.

    Dovetails right into national security because it is no different than a bio attack.

    It works in primary or general election.

  •  BTW, The Red Cross Has Free Presentations (5+ / 0-)

    The American Red Cross has a ton of info on Pandemic Flu, and you can get your local chapter to do free presentations in your community just by making a call.

    You can find your local American Red Cross chapter by zip code or look in the yellow and white pages.

    It's free, they are thrilled to do it and will help with all the arrangements and promotion to get folks out to the event.

    Help Linda Stender turn New Jersey's 7th Congressional District Blue. Donate on Act Blue today!

    by nathanrudy on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 06:33:29 AM PDT

  •  flu pandemic (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    SarahLee

    would be natures way of healing itself from the distruction of mankind!!!

    but at the same time the human spieces has allways looked for away to make tings better or heal themselves.

    as cruel as it sounds the earth could use a sweeping of a few billion people to get things under control.

    sad as that might be

    :(

  •  The ACLU is probably my favorite group to give to (7+ / 0-)

    They are really the most American organization on the planet.

  •  Here is a must-read link... (7+ / 0-)

    ...in keeping with the general topic of how our government feels about folks preparing themselves for external health problems:

    http://www.villagevoice.com/...

    It's not just flus and suchlike.

    Apparently the State of New York is planning on making the possession of scientific testing apparatus ILLEGAL to own without a permit from the police.

    Just stuff that tests air quality, devices like Geiger counters, and such - nothing terribly complicated.  No lie.

    This is probably worth a decent Diary by itself, but I though this seemed an appropriate place to bring it up.

    Thoughts?

    Great Diary by the way.

    It ain't called paranoia - when they're really out to get you. 6 points.

    by Jaime Frontero on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 07:21:49 AM PDT

  •  Russert has 3 women (0+ / 0-)

    on his panel, talk about pandering! Ha!

  •  Overwhelming. (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    SaraBeth, ER Doc, Cassandra Waites

    Demfrom CT, I just poked around in the disaster preparedness links you provided.

    It's overwhelming! you should see the quantities of food and water they suggest you stockpile to protect your family.

    This reminds me of the disaster preparedness industry that sprang up around being prepared for a nuclear war.

    Being from the "duck & cover" generation with friends whose parents built bomb shelters in their basements in central Indiana, I have an inherent skepticism about the value of such preparedness ...

    Oh, and this also reminds me of Y2K. My next door neighbor drilled a water well with a hand pump and filled her garage with wood for the wood stove she installed. She was willing to share the water, but not the wood. And we live in a zero lot line neighborhood in the suburbs!

    So far from being lazy or unwilling to be prepared, I'm overwhelmed by the suggestions and skeptical about the outcome.

    I believe in being prepared. However, if I have food and water and heat, then don't I just become a big target for desperate neighbors?

    "Let us not look back to the past with anger, nor towards the future with fear, but look around with awareness." James Thurber

    by annan on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 07:52:25 AM PDT

    •  not if they have water and heat (6+ / 0-)

      and that's why it's a community thing and not an individual thing.

      This site is for the overwhelmed. It's a local and not a federal effort. I think of it as step by step prep for the ice storms and blizzards we get in CT. You do not need to do everything at once (2 weeks prep is not that hard, and water stockpiling or filtering is less important than food, because it 'goes out' less, but useful for backup). Oh, and use it for panflu prep as well. It becomes part of the background and not a big deal at all.

      The bigger issue is school closure for 4-12 weeks in case of pandemic and how the community handles that. That's got to be planned in advance, especially for parents.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by DemFromCT on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 08:02:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Unfortunately, preparation also goes beyond your (5+ / 0-)

      own food, water, and heat. You have to be prepared to band with your neighbors to deal with the temporary breakdown of civil law.

      -5.12, -5.23

      We are men of action; lies do not become us.

      by ER Doc on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 08:16:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I think it should be up to the states. (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    DemFromCT, Rick Winrod

    I'm not comfortable with the federal government deciding on its own to call for quarantine.  It should work up the ladder from local to state to federal with each level being able to ask for aid from the next up level if they need it.

    That said, we need to get strict hiring requirements at the federal level. President can't just hire his/her friends and supporters unless they are qualified to do the job.

    -7.50, -7.74 Republicans = Borrow and Squander

    by GMFORD on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 07:56:16 AM PDT

  •  NAIS, The Flu Pandemic is already being used to (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Rick Winrod

    take our civil liberties. In the name of security, agribusiness has pushed through an animal registration system. The paper work required will put many small & organic farmers out of business. It will also require registration for many family pets that have commercial use, such as horses, pigs goats, chickens, & rabbits. Do you want to notify the government every time you transport your horse to a horse show?

    The only people who are happy with their health insurance plan, haven't used it yet.

    by Hens Teeth on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 08:49:06 AM PDT

    •  please elaborate on the Animal Registration (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Hens Teeth

      system.  thanks

      •  NAIS - USDA's gift to agribusiness (0+ / 0-)

        The following is taken from The Farm and Ranch Freedom Alliance (FARFA)

        The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) is currently in the process of implementing the National Animal Identification System (NAIS) through the States.  NAIS is designed to identify all livestock animals and poultry and track their movements.  When the program is fully implemented, the USDA claims that the NAIS will be able to identify all premises on which animals and poultry are located, and all animals that have had contact with a disease of concern, within 48 hours of discovery.

        The NAIS was developed by large agri-businesses, technology companies, and government bureaucracies, without involving the hundreds of thousands of people who own livestock animals and who will be directly affected.  The NAIS will cause a variety of problems:

        • Massive intrusion into people’s lives: individuals will have to provide detailed information about their property, businesses, and their own movements to government and private databases;
        • Burden on property rights: the premises registration number will attach to the land forever, and people’s rights to manage their land and animals will be restricted;
        • High costs: registration, tagging, and reporting all carry costs in both time and money;
        • Loss of small farmers and ranchers: many will be unable to afford the program, or unwilling to accept the government intrusion;
        • Damage to the economy: businesses that rely on small farmers, such as sales barns, supply stores, and even tourism, will be harmed;
        • Reduced choices and increased costs for consumers;
        • Violation of many Americans’ religious beliefs; and
        • Increased government bureaucracy and waste of taxpayer dollars.

        The NAIS will not provide benefits to justify these costs.  The stated purpose of the NAIS is to provide 48-hour traceback to address animal disease. But the NAIS does not address the critical issues for disease prevention and control:
        • the causes of disease, especially differences in management;
        • the vectors of disease transmission, including wild animals, insects, and imports;
        • testing for disease, including tests for Mad Cow and other food-safety issues; and
        • the unique issues posed by each species and each disease
        The proponents of NAIS also ignore the alternatives for tracking animals through lower-cost and less intrusive programs.

        The only people who are happy with their health insurance plan, haven't used it yet.

        by Hens Teeth on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 06:38:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Calling out the troops is absolutely the worst (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    splashy

    and stupidest response.  Just like in 1918, they will be placed in grave danger of infection because of their concentration in barracks and will hasten the spread of the disease.  Moreover, if this illness is anything like the one in 1918, it kills the young and healthy with surprising savegery.

    What does the preznit think they are going to do?  Drive through a crowded intersection shooting at germs? (I know, that was Blackwater.  I am speaking hypothetically.)

    And is he going to fight the pandemic without hospitals?  I diaried his effort to eliminate public hospitals and my own crusade to stop him here.

    "Big boss man..you ain't so big, just tall, that's all." And McCain is the boss!

    by TheFatLadySings on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 08:58:03 AM PDT

  •  Face masks to protect health personnel will be (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Rick Winrod, Abra Crabcakeya

    in short supply. The N-95 style costs from $3.00 to $6.00 apiece now. In the case of a pandemic they will be priceless. Thee are ways to sterilize these for reuse, including reuse by the same person to avoid the "Ewww" factor of wearing another person's used mask. The holder of the Hydrogen peroxide vapor technology that makes this possible is not interested because the major face mask makers totally resist this as it might eat into their current profits and these medical product companies currently use the peroxide sterilization for other products. SO they are all willing to trade profits now for the risk of infecting doctors and nurses in case of an epidemic.

    Obama doesn't look like Thomas Jefferson, just Jefferson's children.

    by OHdog on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 09:06:03 AM PDT

    •  Interesting... (0+ / 0-)

      What patent number is that?

      I found a couple possible ones, but both of them have lapsed...

      -fred

    •  Actually, if you have several (0+ / 0-)

      And put them into plastic bags after use, then leave them there for a week or so, they will be fine to reuse, as far as I know.

      The flu virus doesn't live more than a few days or so without a host.

      "A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." Douglas Adams

      by splashy on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 12:57:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Hong Kong Government report says (0+ / 0-)

        Studies have shown that the virus remain viable in faeces for at least 35 days at 4oC and for 6 days at 37oC. It is also reported that the virus is capable of surviving on contaminated surfaces such as the poultry house environment for several weeks

        So I wouldn't count on this.

        Obama doesn't look like Thomas Jefferson, just Jefferson's children.

        by OHdog on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 04:44:25 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  The Flu Pandemic of 1918 (0+ / 0-)

    Fifty million died within four months of the virus; by contrast, ten million people were killed in the four years of World War I. The World War did spread the disease. Indeed, the Americans were inadvertently responsible for germ warfare. More than a third of our Doughboys went over there with the Flu. "Lafayette, We Are Here and So Are Our Germs."

    Of course, the American public suspected that the Germans actually had created the disease. Having pioneered poisoned gas and submarine warfare, as well as subsidizing the Bolshevik Revolutions, the Germans certainly had not distinguished themselves for scruples. But they really did not have technology for creating viruses.

    However, Americans were so suspicious of the Hun that they actually shunned one of the few remedies of the time that alleviated some of the flu’s discomfort. Patriotic Americans boycotted aspirin. After all, Bayer was a German company.

  •  Time to Write a Check (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    splashy, Abra Crabcakeya, rhutcheson

    It's time to write a check to the ACLU.  They're doing more to protect our rights and freedoms than our elected leaders.  I'm to the point where I think money going to the ACLU brings a better result to the country than giving it to any politician.  

  •  if folks would understand... (4+ / 0-)

    ...that preparedness at the personal and local level would lessen the need for a federal response. It is because towns like mine, in rural Massachusetts, does not have any ongoing education strategy for the citizens, there WILL be a need for a state of federal response....and Bush may not even be in office when this breaks open here. Is what we are currently witnessing in India, Bangladesh, Pakistan or Indonesia coming to a town near us soon? We don't know but we should prepare. Also, we have been extremely fortunate that these outbreaks have not occurred where there is also an ongoing epidemic of another virus like H1 or H3.

    In the places where there has been an effort to plan and prepare for this health disaster that effort has been overwhelmingly bipartisan. I almost resent the conspiracy theories because of the effect that they have on people towards not preparing for this....speak them knowing that your words carry a burden.

    I want to know what each candidate has to say. I tried to address this in my own blog but there were few statements to find...there have been a few though.

  •  Misundertanding regarding "all-hazards" (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    DemFromCT

    The "all-hazards" approach is not a 'one size fits all' approach. It looks for aspects of response that are similar from one disaster to another and creates a single streamlined procedure for each, incorporated in a basic plan. Where a type of hazard has unique requirements, annexes or appendices to the basic plan address the unique needs.

    The "all-hazards" approach utilizes that same strategy that goes into producing cars. Models that look noticeably different typically begin from a common framework, to which different pieces are attached and custom colors are applied, producing a variety of final products.

    Without an all-hazards approach, emergency responders would have to memorize dozens of plans, each hundreds of pages long. In my experience as an evaluator of emergency exercises, I observed that many responders did not really understand their plans often with potentially dangerous results.

    As the author noted, some aspects of response are unique to pandemics. But, many aspects of response are similar from one disaster to another, and the government agencies capable of assisting with those activities will be the same. For example, if adequate supplies of safe food and animal feed are needed, regardless of the cause, USDA and FDA will be involved and will perform (a) certain routines regardless of hazard. If, however, crops and food supplies have been contaminated by radiation, the agencies will need to (b) mobilize specialists and specialized equipment to handle that aspect.  In an all-hazards plan, activities in (a) would be described by a single set of procedures in a basic plan, and activities in (b) would be described in an appendix or annex to that.

    •  as you know (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      splashy, Deep Harm

      I've written about that, and I agree with you. i have less issue with the all-hazards approach as long as it's made clear where the uniqueness is (i.e, your (b)).

      few hazards, btw, hit everywhere at once with no help from outside. having established that, there's nothing wrong and a lot of things right about an all-hazards approach, with adaptation, as Deep harm has articulated.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by DemFromCT on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 11:40:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Many planners lack interdisciplinary training (0+ / 0-)

        and lack the lifelong interest in a wide variety of subjects that I believe is necessary to be a really effective planner. Thus, many planners fail to identify specifics that may be critical to a plan's success.  Planners frequently fail, also, to question assumptions made by predecessors, or to examine the impacts of social and technological changes.

        For years, FEMA and USDA have distributed emergency guidance for disasters involving crops and livestock that were based on false assumptions made years ag.  I questioned them and sought out experts who confirmed that the guidance was incorrect and potentially harmful.  An official document released in 1998 acknowledged the need for government planners to reconsider those recommendations. But, officials in this administration ignored my urging to revise the offical FEMA/USDA recommendations  that farmers and other citizens rely on. Instead, they opted to keep the public in the dark.

  •  The Public Health Service is hampered (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    DemFromCT, chimpy, splashy

    by an almost complete absence of whistleblower protections. As a result, officers risk their careers and the benefits they accrued if they speak up about problems.  No one in a position with such important responsibility should be left vulnerable to reprisal if they report system failures or point out needed changes.

  •  Pandemics (0+ / 0-)

    Question time:

    How did so many Black Africans get exposed to
    HIV and Aids?

    A State Department employee said it was done this way.  A number of AID employees assigned to then
    Rhodesian embassy were gay.  They were assigned
    to the Harare Embassy with the intent of spreading
    the virus throughout Africa.  This was done on or around 1982.

  •  Flu virus' affinity to cold and dry air (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    DemFromCT, splashy

    I apologize if this is little off topic.

    The NYTimes recently published what I thought was an interesting article. Some researchers at the Mt Sinai School of Medicine noticed that there were few cases of the flu in the tropics and set out to discover why. They discovered that the flu virus likes cold and dry air.

    From the article:

    They discovered that transmission was excellent at 41 degrees. It declined as the temperature rose until, by 86 degrees, the virus was not transmitted at all.

    The virus was transmitted best at a low humidity, 20 percent, and not transmitted at all when the humidity reached 80 percent.

    Here's the link to the NYTimes article:

    http://www.nytimes.com/...

    It adds an interesting dimension to the whole idea of prevention and quarantine, I think.

  •  N95, N99, N100 masks (0+ / 0-)

    OHdog mentioned N95 face masks earlier.

    My understanding is that N-series masks (N95,N99 and N100) are tested against "fume-sized" particles measuring 0.3 microns, and the typical viral particle measures about 0.02 microns, so you could still be exposed to viral particles even if you were wearing a N100 masks.

    I don't think the question is about being exposed per se, but how many viral particles to which you need to be exposed in order to develop an infection. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

    I think this is why the U.S. government hasn't really emphasized the use of face masks like, for example, the French have.

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