WTF? Obama, CHRISTIAN CRAZY?

OK, I know that we are quick to jump to conclusions sometimes here in the netroots. There was an MSNBC post on First Read that someone linked to earlier. I found it interesting that Obama was sending out a mailer that spoke about his Christianity, so I thought I would look and see what the mailer said exactly. You can form your own opinion, follow the link:

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/...

Now, nowhere do I see Obama calling himself a "Christian Leader." Nor do I see him putting out rightwing talking points. In fact when he talks about what his Christian faith points toward as moral imperatives it talks about things such as health care and poverty.

   As long as...

   ...47 million Americans don't have health insurance

   ...half of South Carolina students don't graduate from high school

   ...our country is fighting in a war in Iraq that never should have been authorized and never should have been waged

   ...37 million Americans live in poverty forgotten by their leaders in Washington

   ...OUR CONSCIENCE CANNOT REST.

If a candidate is going to speak about his faith, then that is how I want him to talk about it. I want to know what will motivate my candidates decisions. For a lot of candidates that may be their faith. I know that as a Christian I think a lot about social justice issues and environmental stewardship. There are many Christians who are very progressive on these issues.

Finally, sending out a mailer that remarks that you are a "Committed Christian" does not make you a Christian Crazy. This is clearly an effort to combat the Manchurian Muslim meme. We should be happy that our candidates are making an effort to hit back at the efforts to swift-boat them this time around.

•  Tips for the truth.

  Fired up. Ready to go.

  by Obama2008 on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:17:49 AM PDT

  •  Well phrased: Manchurian Muslim meme.

    And that's about the gist of it. When Obama starts talking about amending the Constitution to conform with God's law, I'll start paying attention to this non-story.

    by TerribleTom on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:23:22 AM PDT

  •  tipped and recced

    for not making mountain about thing's that aren't even molehills

    by Mr Bula on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:24:11 AM PDT

  •  Very good...

    Clicking on the link for the mailer is  worth the five seconds.  The earlier led off with the quote from msnbc ...

    "Mike Huckabee isn't the only candidate trying to portay himself as a Christian leader."

    Reading the actual mailer paints a much different picture than reading a misleading diary about a misleading  msnbc description of said mailer.

    by SloMoDem on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:34:37 AM PDT

  •  HRC: Works without faith "unsustainable"

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    by Inland on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:49:11 AM PDT

•  Thread downwind was

  saying Obama was pandering.  WTF?  He is a Christian man who actually goes to church.  He has had smears emailed about him (2-3 times from another candidate's staffers) saying he was Muslim, when he is not.  If he wants to send out a flyer reminding people that he is Christian that is fine with me.  Obama is a Christian.  Obama does attend regularly and not for a photo op like some other candidates.

  by MadAsHellMaddie on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:24:51 AM PDT

•  the Southern strategy

  Obama has to win the South, from South Carolina through Texas.

  Like it or not a lot of Democrats are going to want to know that their vote is going to a strong Christian.

  by mihan on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:25:40 AM PDT

•  Why give this dumb stuff traction?

  This horse was dead right away.  The copycats and provocateurs will just repeat this garbage over and over and waste space on the diary list.

  by Rolfyboy6 on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:27:11 AM PDT

  •  If we have learned one thing...

    it is that if you do not rebuff an attack, it will gain legs. We must fight every lie that is put out by any source. That is why this diary is up.

    by Obama2008 on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:28:42 AM PDT

    •  You'll only be preaching to the converted

      It'll be the usual.

      by Rolfyboy6 on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:46:36 AM PDT

•  Sad he has to do it

  But people continue to spread the Muslim meme.

  by turneresq on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:28:30 AM PDT

•  That any Clinton supporter

  would go after Obama because he is a "crazy christian" boggles my mind.

  As I posted in the diary Maddie refered to Clinton isn't exactly agnostic and is not above pandering.

  Hillary's Prayer: Hillary Clinton's Religion and Politics

  News: For 15 years, Hillary Clinton has been part of a secretive religious group that seeks to bring Jesus back to Capitol Hill. Is she triangulating—or living her faith?

  snip

  Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection. "A lot of evangelicals would see that as just cynical exploitation," says the Reverend Rob Schenck, a former leader of the militant anti-abortion group Operation Rescue who now ministers to decision makers in Washington. "I don't....there is a real good that is infected in people when they are around Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer."

  http://www.motherjones.com/...

  There is nothing wrong with Hillary, or Obama being Christian.

  by nisleib on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:29:11 AM PDT

  •  I can't find diary on HRC's moment in pulpit

    of christian church where she says that people without faith can't be committed to charitable works, in a pander that mangled James.

    by Inland on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:39:38 AM PDT

    •  ?????

      What are you talking about?

      by nisleib on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:44:39 AM PDT

      •  There's a diary about HRC's

        speech from a pulpit in a church, where she says that work without faith is "unsustainable".  I think that's as close to a direct pander to christians as one can find.

        by Inland on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:46:07 AM PDT

        •  I didn't see that diary

          but that is interesting.

          I'm not religious in the least, but I co-founded a Boxer Rescue and have taken care of and found homes for dozens of abandoned and abused dogs.

          Did she just give me an excuse to quit?  I really won't miss cleaning up the poop off my carpet.  My house will smell better...

          by nisleib on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:48:33 AM PDT

      •  Here it is:

        Hillary: Charity without religious faith is unsustainable
        by asahopkins [Subscribe]
        Fri Nov 30, 2007 at 12:52:31 PM CST
        I was startled to read the following passage in this morning's LA Times, regarding Hillary Clinton's comments yesterday at an AIDS summit at Saddleback Church in Orange County.

        Citing what she said was her favorite Bible passage from the book of James -- "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" -- Clinton said she had come to believe that religious faith is an integral component of charity efforts.

        "I have concluded that works without faith cannot be sustained," she said.

        Hillary has turned James around -- instead of saying that faith should inspire works, she says that "works without faith" are empty. To my secular mind, this is stunning, disappointing, and borderline insulting.  If I'm not a regular churchgoer, if I don't pray, is she telling me I won't be able to do good works?  Are the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, the Global Fund, UNICEF, etc, less effective because they don't cite religious faith as the source of their efforts?

        Am I overreacting?  Was Hillary just pandering to her religious audience, or does she really think that charities without religion are not as effective?

        http://www.dailykos.com/...

        by Inland on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:48:21 AM PDT

        •  Does it say that? Really?

          says that "works without faith" are empty

          The actual quote was

          "I have concluded that works without faith cannot be sustained,"

           As in faith is necessary to keep at the work.

          by Catte Nappe on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:26:15 AM PDT

          •  I'm not sure of the distinction you are making.

            I think her statement is more of a pander to people of faith and more of an insult to atheists than the reverse James.

            by Inland on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:47:28 AM PDT

  •  You'd best not go there

    RubyGal only embarrassd herself when she tried before.

    There's nothing you can do that can't be done.
    Nothing you can sing that can't be sung.
    Nothing you can say but you can learn how to play the game.
    It's easy.

    by Iddybud on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:41:13 AM PDT

    •  Well I'm not

      making RubyGal's case.  I don't think there is anything wrong with being a devout Christian, eventhough I'm not one.

      What I'm saying is her supporters attacking Obama over this is ludicrous.

      by nisleib on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:46:23 AM PDT

      •  We surely agree there. nt

        by Iddybud on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 11:52:38 AM PDT

•  He's throwing out more dog whistle words

  for you guys to defend.

  Personally I find that whole "I have to be a Christian to win <insert state>" offensive, but they sadly all have to do it.  It's wrong

  However, this is proof (to me at least) that your change candidate aint so different.

  by TeresaInSammamishWA on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:29:18 AM PDT

  •  Where did he say that?

    Could I get a link?

    by Obama2008 on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:30:16 AM PDT

  •  None of the others has to counter

    a lying smear that's gone viral. That iss what's different.

    As an atheist, I detest the presence of religion in politics, but I'm not the audience for this flyer. I'm glad he's done something to refute the garbage.

    by bumblebums on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:33:24 AM PDT

  •  Did you actually say anything

    in that comment?

    by jhecht on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:48:39 AM PDT

•  John Edwards

  has been saying the exact same things for a long, long time.

  Funny that...  :-/

  Here is what a True U.S. Patriot stands for. 

  by SaraBeth on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:33:59 AM PDT

  •  And? nt

    by Iddybud on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:36:04 AM PDT

  •  Yes he has...

    And he deserves our thanks for it.  

    Unfortunately, and unfairly, Obama's verion of the progressive gospel earns him comparisons with theocrats.

    by SloMoDem on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:39:40 AM PDT

•  I wish he would've shown up at NSP conference

  ...in 2005 as he'd been scheduled to have spoken to a crowd [of 1200 spiritual progressive activists] that would've welcomed him. I felt (and I wasn't alone) that he shunned us because he thought he'd get a political label of "lefty" for appearing before us. It was the beginning of my awareness that Sen.Obama was extremely calculating in his politics.

  To his benefit, however, Obama has insisted that liberals must stop pushing religious people away and stop demanding that they leave their religious ideas "at the door" when they enter into a liberal or progressive context.

  by Iddybud on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:35:45 AM PDT

•  The flyer speaks for itself.

  
  
  

  by two roads on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:35:53 AM PDT

  •  I agree

    That is why I posted the link.

    by Obama2008 on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:36:57 AM PDT

•  Obama must do this to strike back

  against the lies already seeping into the minds of the narrow and lazy. At an Obama event yesterday we were approached by a man in his late 30s with his young son. He asked us first, "Where did Obama go to grade school, hmmm?" Then asked what religion he was, "hmmm?" Next he wanted to know what his middle name is, "hmmm?" He then launched into a tirade in front of his son about how we were the problem! How dare we promote a Muslim with an agenda to overthrow the US. We could not reason with him. His mind was made up. The email was true and the media just was not reporting the facts.

  by speck tater on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:40:07 AM PDT

  •  It's sickening how many morons are out there

    by bumblebums on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:42:04 AM PDT

    •  He actually frightened us a bit.

      It's people with these views that perpetuate hate. His son was left looking worried but nonetheless taking in the venom. It reminded me of that movie "Betrayed" where Debra Winger is living with/investigating people in the KKK. The children learn to hate and the cycle is never broken.

      by speck tater on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:48:46 AM PDT

•  None of the candidates

     with the possible exception of Huckabee (being a minister after all) are an authority on Christianity or religion.

     The Clinton forces spreading the rumors about Obama's madrassah experiences was simply shameful. That the rest of the country is eating it up only shows how little our attention span truly is.

     Religion is a part of politics. To the atheists who are offended by any mention of it, deal with it. Over 90% of America, indeed 90% of the world, believe in the existence of God, Gods, or a higher power of some sort. It is perfectly acceptable to talk about it and embrace it on the campaign trail. What is not acceptable are outright attacks and smears in the name of God. No one has that right in biblical terms. Not even Hillary Clinton.

  by usmeagle69 on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:43:39 AM PDT

  •  Why do the work of the Repubicans for them?

    A January 20 New York Post article quoted Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson saying, "We have no connection to this story." The article further reported that Obama strategist David Axelrod said he did not "believe ... for a second" the allegation that Clinton's camp was behind the story.

    The Republicans start a stupid rumor that slimes Obama and simultaneously start another rumor that it was Clinton who started the first one.  Anyone who repeats either of those stories might as well be on Karl's private email list.  Please stop it.

    by 2kate2 on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:56:35 AM PDT

    •  I said Clinton forces

        not Clinton campaign. Just like the Clinton forces who were behind the lawsuit in NV to stop a plan that had been implemented for months.

        I don't believe for a second that Clinton herself did it or even approved of it. But to dismiss any allegation of Clinton supporters as "simply being on Rove's email list" is unhealthy.

        Clinton brings much trouble on herself. Some of her more enthusiastic supporters have trumpeted this story and damn well probably were the ones who leaked it and made sure it stayed on the front pages. It's not her fault...but to dismiss that allegation as Karl Rovelike just isn't healthy.

      by usmeagle69 on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:59:50 AM PDT

      •  Oh.

        So David Axelrod is not an authoritative source for you.

        (Obama strategist David Axelrod said he did not "believe ... for a second" the allegation that Clinton's camp was behind the story.)

        You think he was just being generous?
        You think he was uninformed?
        You think he draws a distinction between Clinton "forces" (your word) and the Clinton "camp" (his word)?

        Sorry, but you are actively repeating a false rumor that hurts Democrats.  The Republicans are using you to capitalize on the negative persona they've created for HRC, and you're letting them.

        by 2kate2 on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 11:17:01 AM PDT

        •  Hillary

            and her bad image are as much her own fault. She's completely screwed this up and one reason I don't want her to be the nominee is that she will completely destroy our chances.
           
            David Axelrod said the same thing I just did. He doesn't believe Clinton or her campaign did it. Neither do I!!

            I'm not repeating anything that hurts anyone. If Clinton can't beat this, she can't win. She'd better learn.

          by usmeagle69 on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 11:27:54 AM PDT

          •  Whatever her faults and screw-ups

            (and like every other human, she's awash in them) this is not among them.

            Axelrod did not use the word "campaign" -- he said "camp".  Specifically, he said that he didn't believe the allegation that her "camp" was behind the story.  

            That's the opposite of what you said.  

            The Republicans are behind this, and apparently the Obama camp knows it--except for you.

            Your prediction that she will completely destroy our chances will be self-fulfilling if you keep believing the Republicans are innocent here.  They set this up, and you're playing into it.

            by 2kate2 on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 11:54:10 AM PDT

            •  Hillary

                 despite the ridiculous conventional wisdom to the contrary, has NEVER beaten the GOP attack machine. NEVER!! She is married to a guy who did, but SHE HASN'T. The GOP did not go full force in her 2000 Senate race once Guiliani dropped out. She had token opposition in 2006. She has NEVER run the gauntlet and won against the GOP.
               
                 She will destroy our chances if she runs her general election the way she has run her primary. She'll get beat and beat soundly!!!

              by usmeagle69 on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 11:45:29 AM PDT

•  If people think you can win without a dialog with

  ...Evangelicals, get ready to lose every election from here into perpetuity.

  Good diary, Obama 2008.

  by ArkansasLiberal on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:47:59 AM PDT

•  It is sickening that,

  in order to get elected in this country in the 21st Century, ANY politician should have to bang on about the various superstitions he practices.

  But such is the nature of the political playing field in America and, atheist though I am, I don't criticize Obama for doing what he perceives necessary to avoid having his promising Presidential campaign derailed by xenophobes and wingnuts.

  It galls me that religion comes into politics at all -- and I'm sorry, everyone, but pictures of a politician at prayer simply make me cringe, even when it is the otherwise quite delightful Barack Obama -- but I understand why it's necessary in American politics, even in 2008.

  by Loquatrix on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:55:23 AM PDT

•  He dam well

  better be talking about his Christianity.  When I was out recently at an auction, someone came up to me and started asking me what I thought about Obama and a Muslim for president and that he refused to take the oath and swear under God when he took his senate seat, ad nauseum.  I informed him that this was not true and he was thinking of Keith Ellison, but of course he believed the right wing smear talking points.  This is the same person who during the Kerry, Edwards presidential race came up to me talking about how they were both homosexuals...another right wing grassroot talking point, just like this one.  Obama is not my candidate, but it would behoove him to keep talking Christian especially if he is a Prez or VP candidaate.  In fact he probably can't talk about it enough to counteract this kind of total BS.  

  by otis704 on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 11:10:22 AM PDT

  •  I wanted to clarify that none of these things

    about Keith Ellison bother me in the least.

    by otis704 on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 11:12:23 AM PDT