Daily Kos

Blurring the Lines Between Clinton and Obama

Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 03:58:43 AM PDT

I don't have the same view of this as some people do. My view is Connecticut is an unmitigated blessing for the Democrats because Lieberman has said if he wins he's going to vote with us to organize the Senate. I'm interested in getting one of these houses back, because that's the only way, I think, we can move away from the philosophical and political and economic direction the country has taken in the last five years. So I'm doing what I can to help the Democrats win the House and the Senate or both.

Bill Clinton, September 20, 2006.

You should recognize the tactic by now. It's the one that's pulled the wool over the eyes of quite a few in the netroots. It successfully derailed Ned Lamont's candidacy for Senate in 2006. It's the same tactic all incumbents and frontrunners use when they are threatened by a challenger. They blur the lines. They blur the lines until the distinction is negligible between the candidates, and then they run on "experience."

Joe Lieberman used this to great affect in 2006. Bill Clinton's quote above certainly helped blur those lines, but completely misrepresenting his own position on the war in Iraq, ("No one wants to end the war in Iraq more than I do...") played a large part. Make no mistake that Hillary Clinton is trying to blur the lines right now.

An informed electorate, or an honest media, would call them on this. At the very least, the blogosphere would recognize this. Chris Bowers wrote about this strategy months ago:

I dug up this quote as a way to expand upon Matt's question from Saturday, where he asked why Clinton seemed to be gaining support within the progressive blogosphere and open left. Matt's instincts are the same as mine, that "all the campaigns are blurring their messaging," and so "if everyone is pretending to be the standard wordprocessor, why not just choose Microsoft Office?" Blurring is very much a problem other candidates are facing right now, and the Mark Penn quote shows that blurring is actually a key component of Clinton's strategy. If all of the candidates seem the same on major issues such as Iraq, then why not just choose the most stable, long-term brand? In Democratic circles, that brand is clearly Clinton.

It's unfortunate that even among progressives who can recognize this strategy, there's still a disconnect. See Matt Stoller:

Meanwhile, I see limited or marginal reasons to care who wins the primary.  I respect supporters of every candidate.  Still, if you want to persuade me to drink your kool-aid, get your candidate to help Dodd protect the damn constitution already.  And then I'll drink a big cup of whatever it is you're offering, and so will lots of us.

Barack Obama never fit their perfect model of a progressive candidate. For whatever reason, call it cynicism if you must, many failed to see that Obama was the natural successor to Howard Dean's movement. He was the one who incorporated internet activism directly into his campaign. He was the one who organized at the grassroots level. He was the one who captured the imagination of young voters. Most importantly, he was the one who could defeat Hillary Clinton.

Dean's revolution was about taking the party back. Unfortunately, that battle was lost. And while Howard Dean is now DNC chair, don't think for a minute that he'll remain there for long if Hillary Clinton is the nominee.  The battle was not won, and the small battles, important though some of them may be, can't distract us from the large ones:

This is about the future of the Democratic Party.

It couldn't be more clear. Watch Barack Obama speak, and watch Hillary Clinton speak. Pay close attention to the pronouns they choose.

Hillary Clinton is the "I" candidate.
Barack Obama is the "We" candidate.

It may seem like a small distinction, but it tells you volumes about what their style of government will be. We deserve a President for all Americans.

Tags: 2008 Elections, CT-Sen, Joe Lieberman, Ned Lamont, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 26 comments

    •  Coke and Pepsi (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      amberglow, WayneNight
      The lines are blurred between Clinton and Obama because they're both the same old kind of triangulating "Democrats".

      It's time to nominate a proud progressive.  It's time to nominate John Edwards.

      •  It's not that Clinton and Obama are... (0+ / 0-)

        ...completely blurred, at least to me.  It's just that every time I find a "positive" in one of them, I also think of a flaw to go with it.

        I still think that Edwards is the best person for the nomination.  I admit that it is now unlikely that he'll win.  If he drops out of the race, I have no preferred candidate, not because Obama and Clinton are somehow "the same," but because, when I weigh their positives and negatives, they roughly come out the same.

        My own view on this: I'm not nearly as enthusiastic about Obama and Clinton as I am about Edwards, but I'll still be enthusiastic enough about either one of them to work and vote for them if they win the nomination.  Both candidates have their negatives, but, frankly, the world will not end, nor will the Democratic Party die, if either one of them is nominated. I'm getting tired of hearing over and over again about how "candidate X" is "evul!" and certain to bring about the end of progressive politics.  It's depressing, disheartening, dishonest, and little more than campaign season bullshit.

    •  You are right (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      sqz23
    •  Good diary (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      ptmflbcs

      But I do have a slight quarrel with your analysis...

      Rather than seeing Obama as the successor of the Dean movement, I frankly see him as the evolution of the Dean movement.

      I jumped on the Dean bandwagon early in 2003 myself -- when the entire party seemed to be falling all over themselves to play nice with King George, no one was standing up to say "Wait a minute... Aren't we !@#@!# supposed to be Democrats?!?!"  

      In 2003/2004 - We needed Howard Dean.  We needed someone to be angry - someone for our anger to coalesce around.  Believe me -leading right up to November of 2004, I was running on two years of rage.  

      Dean channeling his primary loss into the DNC chairmanship -- very much against the wishes of the Clinton gutter rat brigade -- was another step in the evolution.   It wasn't enough to be angry.  It wasn't enough to take our party back.   We had to be effective to - we had to win.   We did that.  We wrote letters, we banged the drums, we convinced enough insiders that Howard Dean, the 50 state strategy, and a strong Democratic party unafraid of it's own reason for being was our future.

      Barack Obama is another step in that evolution.  It's time for the anger, the experience, the victories -- all of it -- to be channeled into our nation.  

      This isn't about crushing the GOP anymore.  It's not about winning elections.  It's not about debates or polls, or even elections.   It's about actually putting that agenda we all fought so hard for into place.  You cannot do that with a 50-50 country.  We need to bring the entire nation along with us.  We have to bring the low-info voters, the independents and moderates - and yes, even some Republicans, along.  

      We've done all the pushing we can -- the rest of the work has to be done with persuasion.

      I guess everyone's got their own blog now.

      by zonk on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 06:09:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Thanks for the Bill Clinton (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      ptmflbcs

      quote.
      I wrote on this site more than once that Bill made mooing noises in support for Lieberman. And got flamed by people who keep dredging one speech by Obama as 'evidence' that Obama should be opposed for that.
      It was absolutely clear that the Clintons were playing in the CT election.
      Hillary did send a check to Lamont.
      Meanwhile Bill winked over and over saying Lieberman is no problem in the general. He said there is no difference.
      There's campaigns, and then there's the truth about what went down no matter who you support.
      Tell the truth and then work it out.

  •  & Edwards is the "you" candidate-- (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Rich in PA

    which is the one that counts, after all, given that they're running to be our employees, not our teammates nor our bosses.

    And then, he farted candy and rainbows...

    by amberglow on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:10:56 AM PDT

  •  And you have (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    MadRuth, eleanora, Rich in PA

    Joe Scarborough on your side, and Mika and Tucker and Matthews too.

    Surprise, surprise.  Scarborough just angrily decried the Clintons for being partisan.  He just loves how Obama is reaching out to the right.  And he just said how his very red home of northwest FL (anyone every been there....the racism is still a huge factor in those communities) is no different that his new home in NY.  Hmmmmmmmm

    Oh well, win-win for some of you.
    Personally my mistrust of the right has nothing to do with partisan politics or the Clintons.  It has to do with what the right has done for the last 28 years....to everyone.

    I have a lot of cynicism for a network that is openly declaring its loyalties to one democrat while demonizing another.  I will not be duped by the media's love affair of candidate.  MSNBC loved them some George W back in 2000 and again in 2004.  I do not trust them.

    I totally disagree with Obama on this.  Reaching out to the likes of the right now is not so good....now that the left is close to taking back the WH and keeping the Congress.  NOW, suddenly all the right wing pundits LOVE the idea of reaching out to each other.  Don't buy it.

    •  Voters... (0+ / 0-)

      How is reaching out to disaffected Republicans a bad thing? I mean, really. Why is good media coverage a bad thing, either? Have the scales tipped in our favor for once?

      You don't fight division with more division. You fight division with unity. There are some pretty damn pissed Republicans right now, and they will come to the Democratic Party. But not if Hillary is the nominee.

      •  Whatever (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Rich in PA

        You want to trust these people, have at it.

        And you call "personal likes and dislikes of pundits" good media coverage?  I guess you don't remember the distortions of the 2000 elections! First they had a love fest for Bradley and were trashing Gore in the primaries.  Then when Gore won over the media choice of Bradley despite the unfair game of MSNBC and others, they took up for the frat boy; the personal pundits loving on George W and his "compassionate conservativism" and their trashing of Al Gore hurt the democratic process.  They refused to investigate deeply anything negative on Bush and SPUN negatives and gave outright lies about Al Gore.  I believe if they had done their job and kept their personal crap out of it, maybe there would have been no chance for the Supreme Court to declare Bush the prez.

        You want to trust these same people as giving "good" coverage.  Whenever the media has a personal preference and drives it home, it is not good coverage...it's called FOX NEWS, the kind of coverage here most used to deride.  Just because the same kind of UNFAIR bias is being used to give your choice and advantage, doesn't make it ethical or honest or to be trusted.

        Democrats who are buying into the spin of the media are short sighted with bad memories.  It is NEVER good for the media to have a personal stake in an elections.  It is bad for democracy!!!! Period!

        •  Go get 'em jjc! (0+ / 0-)

          You are 100% right.  And as for Obama appealing to "disaffected Republicans," the only thing many of them are disaffected about is the prospect of losing.  Obama represented their fallback position, as the Democrat least hostile to them.

          -5.38/-3.74 I've suffered for my country. Now it's your turn! --John McCain with apologies to Monty Python's "Protest Song"

          by Rich in PA on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 06:01:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Which Republicans are you talking about? (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            ptmflbcs, Kimball

            Because if you mean the ones in the media and government who were complicit in the erosion of the country over the last 8 years, then I certainly don't disagree with you.

            However, there's this really unfortunate tendency on the part of some progressives to confuse the 28%ers with the moderates. Obama made it pretty clear in the debate he's not going for the hardcore wingnuts -- how could he with a 100% rating from NOW? He's after the moderates and independents.

    •  You really need (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      ptmflbcs

      to let the bile go.

      Your way leads us to nothing more than another 50-50 stalemate, regardless of who wins the White House.

      We need to move past that.  We need to stop treating politics like a knife fight.

      Barack Obama isn't magic - Rush Limbaugh isn't going to stop broadcasting, Newt Gingrich isn't going to stop being an ass, Tom DeLay won't stop being corrupt, Karl Rove won't stop being evil - but their power, their spell over America... or at least broad swaths of it -- will be broken.

      We'll have a Democrat, a progressive Democrat (and let's be honest... slice and dice what he's said in the last 6 months however you want - the man has a lifetime of progressive causes under his belt, 11 years of elected office full of progressive votes, and a whole slate of progressive policy proposals) -- whom big portions of America don't see as a mortal enemy.  

      They're not going to magically start rallying for increases in the estate tax or demand an immediate Iraq withdraw -- but --- some of them WILL start to listen.  They'll listen because they'll see a President who listens to them - even though they know he does not and probably will never agree with the policies they support.   A few of them will even be willing to give "his way" -- OUR way -- a shot.

      Step out of the partisan trenches for a moment.

      There IS another way.  We don't need to fight through a meatgrinder.  This doesn't need to be bloodsport.

      I've spent -- we've all spent -- years in a back alley brawl.  We damn sure haven't gotten very far.

      Let's try something new.

      I guess everyone's got their own blog now.

      by zonk on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 06:19:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I don't need to blur the lines. (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Rich in PA

    From the point of view of this socialist, there are no visible lines between our candidates.  It's like measuring an inch from two miles away.

    •  Finally, someone is honest around here! (0+ / 0-)

      You're probably in the wrong party, but socialism is an admirable goal and anyone who isn't afraid to say they're a socialist is pretty cool in my book.

      -5.38/-3.74 I've suffered for my country. Now it's your turn! --John McCain with apologies to Monty Python's "Protest Song"

      by Rich in PA on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 05:59:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not me (0+ / 0-)

        Sorry...

        I still believe that individual liberties ARE an important part of being an American, and there's no getting around it --- if you want socialism, you have no choice but to part with some of those liberties.

        I guess everyone's got their own blog now.

        by zonk on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 06:21:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well, there are liberties and there are liberties (0+ / 0-)

          Taxation takes away your liberty.  Professional licensing requirements take away your liberty.  Libel laws take away your liberty.  Most importantly, and never discussed because of the way the issue has been framed, your own limitations take away your liberty: I can't be a rocket scientist or a defensive tackle.

          If we woke up tomorrow and the means of production were owned by the state, we would, of course, totally freak out.  But I can also imagine a cultural change, over time, that leads to an America where that wouldn't freak us out.  

          -5.38/-3.74 I've suffered for my country. Now it's your turn! --John McCain with apologies to Monty Python's "Protest Song"

          by Rich in PA on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 06:25:42 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Typical blurring (0+ / 0-)

            My "liberties" do not entitle me to be a rocket scientist just because I want to.  That's in fact antithetical to a libertarian viewpoint -- either you're capable of becoming a rocket scientist and you work to become one -- or you don't because you either didn't work to become one or you weren't capable of becoming one.

            You aren't guaranteed the right to become a defensive tackle -- but you are free to try to become one.

            Receiving a professional license is choice - any liberties -- any invasion into my personal life necessary to secure and maintain those licenses, are decision I and I alone make.  I'm aware of the choice - and I choose to pursue that license or not pursue it.

            Libel laws don't take away my liberty -- they protect yours.

            I'm not sure exactly where you're getting your views on liberties from -- but they have nothing to do with mine, nor, I suspect -- anyone that values their freedoms to the degree that I do.

            I'm not an anarchist - I accept the payment of taxes.  I accept social programs for the common good.  I happily and always vote "yes" for school funding initiatives... public works projects... I even believe in universal access to healthcare.

            What I have a problem with are situations where the government - any government -- chooses to interfere with my private life.  If I -- an adult America - decide for whatever reason, that I do not wish to have healthcare... say I believe in faith healing... or new age/alternative medical care... or just plain don't like doctors -- then I, an adult American -- should have the right to refuse a health care plan and the government should not penalize me for exercising it.

            I guess everyone's got their own blog now.

            by zonk on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 06:34:54 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Do you think people in Scandanavian-style... (0+ / 0-)

          ...social democracies have less liberty than you?

          •  I think it depends (0+ / 0-)

            on what you consider an individual liberty.

            My point is that "liberty" is more than just say/live/write/etc what you want.

            Part of that is also about being free from government intervention... and yes -- sometimes that does include a right to be stupid.

            Since I imagine we're ultimately talking healthcare - I'll put it this way.

            Do I support a single payer system -- where I, of my own free will and volition, can choose to seek care when appropriate (preventative and curative)?

            Yes I do.

            I even support paying more taxes to finance such a system.

            Do I support a mandated program where the government says I must sign up for this program... or I get signed up automatically... or I pay a fine?

            Unequivocally, No.

            What I believe in faith healing?  What if I believe in nonconventional or new age medicine?  What if I just plain don't like doctors or hospitals?  What if I'm really paranoid and just don't want anyone poking me in certain places?

            Shouldn't I have the right not to go along?

            The key is availability vs. forced enrollment.

            My entire view on this matter is NOT predicated me being a believer in new age medicine/faith healing/etc (I'm none of those).  It's NOT predicated on me believing the government or some government blessed entity is going to use my personal records against me (they probably wouldn't).

            My entire view is predicated on the fact that I believe that it should ultimately be MY choice as to whether or not I participate in something that effect my own personal body.  

            I guess everyone's got their own blog now.

            by zonk on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:17:47 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Yes, who would have thought... (0+ / 0-)

    that much of the left blogosphere would stand in the way of a true people powered democratic movement.  Barack's chances are still decent, our chances are still decent...if HRC wins the nomination its politics as usual.

    "His mind is as sharp as anybody's I've ever met," Feingold said of Obama.

    by Joes username on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 05:51:29 AM PDT

    •  Who would have thought (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Rich in PA

      that some democrats think ONLY their choices and their voices and their opinions are valid?  Apparently if on dkos one does not worship Obama and see him as the only candidate capable of cleaning up the Bush mess, one is not a "people" at all.

      Whomever is VOTED on by the people will be the the people's choice except of course if Obama doesn't win...like in NH and NV and then there will be whines and cries of "You cheated".....Sigh

      Even Hillary supporters are people and even we get to vote and yes, we count as people.

      •  A bit of a straw man there (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        ptmflbcs, Kimball

        He's not saying that only Obama counts, but that Hillary is politics as usual. Which it pretty much is.

        (Why do Hillary supporters distort enthusiasm for Obama this way?)

        If Hillary gets the nod, I'll vote for her, even though I really don't like her at all.

      •  Frankly (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Kimball

        With the shit the Clinton campaign is tossing out -- and some of her supporters now abandoning her campaign because of campaign's tactics -- I don't think you can really play the sympathy card again.

        The sad fact is that the Clinton campaign, and yes -- the Clinton campaign supporters -- have spent the last month lecturing all of us non-believers that politics is tough... that we're in for a fight... that this is just how politics work...

        Well -- so be it.

        I guess everyone's got their own blog now.

        by zonk on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 06:25:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  what plum said, and (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        ptmflbcs, Kimball

        Thanks plum.  That is exactly right.  And I would add, your logic ignores the kind of people powered movement the founder of this site has been talking about for years, suggests winning, in any way and by any margin, represents that kind of "people-powered" movement.  My point is that with all of the intsitutional and corporate support, all the money and organization, and Bubba, -- a huge headstart Hillary had as the "inevitable" party candidate, Obama was able to catch and match her to date by (1) getting nearly twice as many people to donate -- over 600,000 now, (2) by getting more people and new people involved in the process.  People can choose different candidates.  I choose Obama, and among the many reasons is that I see him as the one (as compared to Edwards or Dodd -- good people and good democrats) who has inspired a movement and can be the leader necessary to see it grow into a new political reality.

        "His mind is as sharp as anybody's I've ever met," Feingold said of Obama.

        by Joes username on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 06:41:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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