South Carolina Results Thread #3

Results:

83% of precincts reporting

Barack Obama	222,320	54%
Hillary Clinton	110,774	27%
John Edwards	76,675	19%
Dennis Kucinich	448	0%

Update:  With 55% of the vote in, Obama now has garnered more votes than John McCain did in the Republican primary. Additionally, Clinton has received more votes than Thompson (3rd place), and Edwards has received more votes than Ron Paul and GOP "front-runner" Giuliani.

•  Live Feed?

  I had a live feed URL of MSNBC during the NV primary, but I can't find one now.
  Anybody have a link to a live feed to any coverage? I got no TV :)
  Thanks!

  by OutOfManyOne on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:28:19 PM PDT

  •  You're Not Missing Much

    Bill Clinton is on, talking about Bill Clinton.

    Thank goodness the results above say "Hillary" - I was not sure anymore which is running.

    by markhaverty on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:29:53 PM PDT

    •  Part of her problem :)

      Seems like a lot of SC voters saw it the same way.

      To me, Bill out there on the stump makes it clearer that it'd be a dynasty, of sorts, we'd get.

      by OutOfManyOne on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:30:56 PM PDT

      •  Two Things Will Stick From Tonight

        1. Hillary's Asswhooping

        2. Bill once again trying to narrowcast Obama as the black candidate with "Jesse Jackson won there twice too" crap.

        It's a bad night for the Clinton franchise.

        by markhaverty on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:32:17 PM PDT

        •  And that O's win isn't a race-based win

          He took such big chunks from H's numbers that there's no way for the spin to call this a racial anomaly in the primary.

          by OutOfManyOne on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:34:30 PM PDT

          •  Panic mode

            I woder what was their internal projection. 10-15%? Maybe that's why Hillary is so hot about counting FL/MI delegates.

            Incidentally, if Bill still wants to talk about preceedance, he should note NYTimes endorsement equals kiss of death. And how DLC is performing. he is right on track to be the biggest/last loser on 90's era candidate.

            The game is not over yet, but he is not in position to act 'as if'

            by Gwen12 on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 06:00:42 PM PDT

          •  Maybe.

            But the exit polls showed 81-82% of black voters went for Obama, whereas whites split their votes relatively evenly between the three.

            To me it is clear that racial preference had an affect.  The main beneficiary was Obama.  Race is one of Obama's single greatest assets in a place like South Carolina.   If Clinton, Obama, and Edwards were all women, or if they were all black, or if they were all white men, do you really think the vote would have broken the way it did?  Do you really think the candidates leading this race would still be the same?

              I think not.

              (For that matter, do you think Clinton would be a serious candidate, if her name were not Clinton?  Do you think George W. Bush would have even been considered in 2000 without his name?)

            by thegools on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 06:05:40 PM PDT

            •  That said, I am glad Hillary went down.

              I just wish Edwards had been above her.  

              Obama's victory none-the less is impressive. Congrats Barack.

              by thegools on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 06:08:47 PM PDT

        •  As they just said on msnbc, the Clinton's

          racial campaign tactics blew up in their faces.

          by dotster on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:36:07 PM PDT

          •  I hope it's now considered BAD strategy!

            That'd be the best way to keep things clean...no incentive, no mud!

            by OutOfManyOne on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:38:41 PM PDT

          •  I wonder what kind

            of reception Billy Boy will get when he goes back to his office in Harlem? Somehow, I don't think he's such a huge hero there now.  One reason why Hilalry beat Little Ricky convincingly in 2000 was because of black women in NYC, esp. Harlem. Hillary just spit in their faces.

            by TLS66 on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:42:06 PM PDT

        •  I'm sure Jesse will

          happily help Hillary if she gets the nom, wholeheartedly. Or will it be more like Bradley endorsing Gore in 2000..."He's not bad..."

          by TLS66 on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:37:33 PM PDT

        •  That remark, by rights, should be the end of it.

          Bill just dismissed a majority black primary because of the percentage of black voters. Is there anyone of any race who won't be disgusted by that?

          I guess Hillary could pull a Shaheen repeat and ask Bill to resign - but it's unlikely.

          by scardanelli on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:38:36 PM PDT

        •  You'll Notice BILL Gave The "Concession"

          And Hillary cannot be found near a camera tonite??

          We are just at the BEGINNING of the dirtiest and crookedest campaign we are going to see in our lifetimes.

          AND WE CREATED THESE MONSTERS....

          by IndianaDemocrat on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:55:38 PM PDT

          •  We ARE Mary Shelly!

            But thank god, Obama is...uh...hm.

            Gene Wilder..?

            :D

            by OutOfManyOne on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 06:01:07 PM PDT

    •  That's really really bad for her

      If that perception holds up, it really undermines her campaign.

      -dms

      by dmsilev on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:32:07 PM PDT

      •  And not much chance to change the narrative

        ...before Feb 5.

        Should be interesting to see the new CW <-- bleah, hate that term...</p>

        by OutOfManyOne on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:40:27 PM PDT

        •  I Love the CW

          Before the strike killed all the new episodes, Reaper was the best new show of the season, and Gossip Girl was a great guilty pleasure.

          You know, I should have had second thoughts about switching to a new name that was my real name if I was ever going to mention watching Gossip Girl...

          ....

          wait, you don't mean that CW?

          by markhaverty on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:45:10 PM PDT

          •  I don't have a clue what you're talking about :)

            Sorry, I burned my TV ten years ago, in college, out in front of my dorm at about 4 am.

            Never watched TV since...and that was almost 10 years ago!

            by OutOfManyOne on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:47:43 PM PDT

          •  ahh gossip girl

            a great guilty pleasure!

            by vogue500 on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 06:01:02 PM PDT

    •  OMG boringest speech ever!

      He wasn't even talking about the campaign!  He was talking about his charity work!

      by oscarsmom on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:34:22 PM PDT

      •  I Used To Love The Guy Too

        Went out of my way to push for him in '92 while in high school and then as a freshman at UVM (where I still am going - note to all: 16 year plan is not a good idea...). Now, I feel ill about all that.

        by markhaverty on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:35:53 PM PDT

        •  Times they is a'changing

          What is ironic is that Obama is, in many ways, running the campaign Bill ran in '92--candidate of change, of the future, youth, new on the scene, the outsider--only Bill can't pretend to be any of those things anymore!  

          by oscarsmom on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:38:39 PM PDT

          •  I Thought, Back Then, Bill Was My Generation's...

            JFK.

            I was off by 16 years.

            Seriously, I get misty over some of his speeches.

            by markhaverty on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:42:12 PM PDT

            •  Speaking of JFK - Caroline Kennedy Endorses!

              They just announced it on MSNBC - her editorial tomorrow is, "A President Like My Father".

              HUGE!

              Fire it up folks!

              by markhaverty on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:51:26 PM PDT

              •  Just heard that too--AWESOME

                Great timing as well!!  Ride that tidal wave through to Soooooper Toooooosday!!

                by oscarsmom on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:57:24 PM PDT

                •  Here's The Link

                  http://www.nytimes.com/...

                  I can't diary yet under this user name - someone diary this stat!

                  by markhaverty on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 06:02:36 PM PDT

                  •  Oops - Already Done

                    http://www.dailykos.com/...

                    Here!

                    by markhaverty on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 06:03:44 PM PDT

              •  Well written

                just read her comments. I'm not sure how many corporate types have big ties on Obama, but do remember that JFK was elected outside the established democratic party machine, however, the Kenedy clan certainly had it's power base.  It's impossible to be taken seriously without it.  The natice intelligence of Obama inspires me, while Hillary is like the A student spouting off facts while seeming to have no clue to the big issues.  Will be interesting to see how the next states work out.   Edwards staying in the race could be a good thing -- helping to reduce the effect of the race/gender politics the media seem to want to play up and distort.  

                by jmndodge on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 05:54:28 AM PDT

        •  Ditto!

          Burlington's scary like that.  I took about 8 years to finish my undergrad due to skiing and various and sundry other activities, then another four for a two-year M.A.  I'm pretty sure there's a worm hole on the way down College Street.

          by L Boom on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:39:52 PM PDT

          •  UVM and I Had A Mutual Parting Of The Way

            Them: "You have no money."

            Me: "You're right."

            Completely mutual.

            by markhaverty on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:43:03 PM PDT

            •  Ahh

              Ran out of money, but didn't run out of student loans, sadly.  And, man, writing that check every month leaves bruises on my fingers.

              by L Boom on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:48:20 PM PDT

              •  A Huge Mess For Me

                My mother died, I finished high school in Massachusetts at my grandmother's, but maintained Vermont residency, and Vermont always counted me as a resident.

                UVM did not, I had nowhere near enough to cover the $25K that was owed, I was out after a year, had to make up the difference, and then had to start paying the loans because I was out, and it literally took me a dozen years to finally get back, and that's with an employer that is paying now - UVM would not let me back with an employer paying until the past due was done.

                Trust me, reform of this asinine system is one of my top priorities. I think Obama is the one to do it.

                by markhaverty on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:55:41 PM PDT

        •  It's going to take lots before I stop liking Bill

          Clinton.  Everyone is up in arms and all now.  But that doesn't make me forget the good times.

          The silver lining of all this is that whomever gets the nomination will be much tougher having gone through the cauldron of primaries.  Rmember Kerry and Gore, who had very little competition.  I forgot, how did that work out for them?

          The GOP attack machines will be far far worse.

          by thegools on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 06:14:33 PM PDT

      •  He's Talking About His Favorite Subject

        Bill Clinton.

        by Kdoug on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:42:32 PM PDT

        •  I=Bill/WE=Hillary And Bill

          How could we have been so utterly stupid???

          by IndianaDemocrat on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:58:27 PM PDT

      •  I hate to say it, but he sounds like Grampa Fred

        Not in substance but in style.  Poor, poor Bill.  I'm still a fan.  And he's not THAT old.  But he sounds it tonight.  He's just rambling.  Is anyone even cheering?  It doesn't sound like it.

        by CarrieNYC on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:45:12 PM PDT

    •  I loved what "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me" said...

      Man I love that radio show...

      Did anyone else listen to the broadcast this morning?  It was a hoot. in their first segment "The man who swears he's not running for president", they talked about how much Big Dog was involved in stirring things up in the campaign, and one of the panelists said, "He's just happy to be fighting with someone else besides Hillary!" followed by, "He's like the person who graduated from high school who keeps coming back to hang out at school...'Dude, you're 28 years old now, it's time to move on'!"

      by madame defarge on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:36:32 PM PDT

    •  Bill, talking about Bill ...

      ... with a lily-white field of chosen supporters behind him.  Shameless.

      by Adam B on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:37:12 PM PDT

  •  I'm so, SO excited! Go O!

    And really wanna watch some bobble heads...anybody? Live feed link to anything...?

    by OutOfManyOne on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:30:04 PM PDT

  •  brave new films live feed

    is supposed to be here.

    i haven't tried it, tho, so ymmv.

    by birdbrain64 on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:32:01 PM PDT

    •  Much thanks! I'll try it out :) n/t

      by OutOfManyOne on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:37:28 PM PDT

  •  CNN Live Stream

    Here:  Live CNN

    by jbdigriz on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:32:10 PM PDT

    •  Thank you so much!!

      by OutOfManyOne on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:35:11 PM PDT

      •  No problem!

        Glad you get to see the speeches live!  

        Also, I have to say that I like this CNN stream w/o talking heads.  I'd much rather watch a few hundred candidate supporters mill around than listen to commentary that makes my head want to explode!

        by jbdigriz on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:41:13 PM PDT

        •  But now who will I yell at through my screen? :)

          I like the bobble heads because they give my loathing focus. And voice. Loud, neighbor annoying voice. :D

          by OutOfManyOne on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:50:43 PM PDT

          •  Haha!

            I yell at the radio in my car all the time.  The other drivers must think I'm nuts.

            You could always switch over to Bill's speech.  Or mellow out and listen to the groovy music at the Edwards camp.  And Obama's folks have a school band playing.  This is better than the spring TV lineup!

            by jbdigriz on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:54:39 PM PDT

•  Blowout, baby!

  by PsiFighter37 on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:28:41 PM PDT

•  Hope John

  Knocks in 20%. Gotta get delegates.

  by WhyWhat on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:28:46 PM PDT

•  Phenomonal

  Obama has TWICE the vote of Hillary - 27 to 54%

  by internationaljock on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:28:47 PM PDT

  •  Amazing

    The exit polls for CNN are amazing. For Edwards, the biggest problem is that he was a Southern white and got no votes to speak of among blacks. Clinton didn't get whipped as badly among blacks, but she also lost among whites to Obama for 18-29 or Edwards 30-59 and just tied him for 60 +. It's very good to see Obama winning the 18-29 whites, very good.

    by freelunch on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:52:22 PM PDT

•  CNN

  John King calls it a rout.  nice.  Obama to talk a bit after 9.

  by amejr999 on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:28:48 PM PDT

  •  Sen. Obama wins nearly every county !

    Tsunami baby.

    by greenchiledem on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:34:29 PM PDT

    •  A Perfect Storm! A Wipeout!!

      by rapcetera on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:45:23 PM PDT

•  Sending her husband to do the hard work...

  Not a good move for someone who wants to be perceived as a leader.  A leader stands up and takes it like a woman.

  Whether it's true or not, having ex-President Clinton give her concession speech for her makes Clinton seem like she can't take the heat.  Like when I make my husband kill roaches for me.

  Fair or not, this is going to make her seem to be exhibiting the worst of stereotypical "female" behavior.  As a woman, I kind of hate her for it.

  by CarrieNYC on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:28:48 PM PDT

  •  She's Evita, Not Margaret Thatcher

    Margaret Thatcher won because of herself, not her husband. Hillary is showing she cannot do the same.

    Now she just needs a musical...

    by markhaverty on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:34:18 PM PDT

    •  LMAO! "Hillary -- the Musical"

      Or would that be "Wicked?"

      by madame defarge on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:38:31 PM PDT

    •  LOL!

      by chrississippi on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:39:43 PM PDT

  •  Thank you Thank you

    This is a wonderful statement.  I am still so angry as to why so many women are still voting for her.  She is going to set women's rights back 50 years.  She is not the person that we should have as the first woman President.

    Whatever happened to the mantra that a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle?  She shouldn't need Bill, and certainly shouldn't be using him to make this speech.  

    by smoosh21 on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:34:58 PM PDT

  •  are you kidding?

    Bill loves ANY kind of attention.

    by AlyoshaKaramazov on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:35:37 PM PDT

  •  well put.

    I'm glad you said it, so I didn't have to get flamed for it, being a male.

    by AlyoshaKaramazov on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:36:39 PM PDT

  •  You already said this

    I repeat, Bill Clinton is his own man. He is not subject to control.

    by RaulVB on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:38:53 PM PDT

    •  cool

      let him continue with his uncontrollable behaviour, it only makes it easier for Obama!

      by donailin on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:56:32 PM PDT

  •  You make your husband do that?

    why not hire Tom Delay?  The poor thing needs a job.

    by deaniac83 on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:39:22 PM PDT

  •  I didn't want to say that

    but since you have, I will comment on it.

    I came from a very, very matriarchal oriented family.  The women in our family our fiercely independent and they don't take shit from men.

    My grandmother, who passed away almost 20 years ago, left just one month after giving birth to her only daughter as a member of the 107th Evac Hosp, following in behind the Normandy Invasion.

    I can't help but think that she would be more than a little disappointed to see a female candidate for President relying so heavily on a man to carry her - a man who was especially disingenuous and unfair to her throughout the course of the relationship.

    It's a shame.  It's really very disappointing.

    by jaywillie on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:41:20 PM PDT

•  Obama took almost every county

  including the poorest and the richest.

  that is staggering.

  by whitedawn on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:28:50 PM PDT

  •  I spent about ten minutes sifting thru the

    exit poll data breakdowns at CNN.com and his support is broad based, just like in IA....

    by nota bene on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:34:33 PM PDT

  •  BTW, that was similar in Iowa!

    (I haven't seen data from NH/NV)

    by oscarsmom on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:36:18 PM PDT

  •  Remarkable.

    Obama is that dude who's going to give us that soild Democratic majority.

    by little liberal on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:50:04 PM PDT

    •  AMEN to that

      because that's the godamm point of it all. a SOLID Democratic Majority. . . !

      by donailin on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:57:56 PM PDT

•  2 Headed Monster

  Don’t the Clintons realize that their tag-team politics is their Achilles heel? It will win the nomination and cost them the election. Americans will not elect this dynamic duo of power hungry, egocentric, unscrupulous, scandal ridden demigods. Just imagine a marriage of Nixon and GWBush in a liberal costume. The Clintons need to be stopped before they finish this implosion of the Democratic Party that they started. They would rather dance on the ashes of their defeat than celebrate any Democratic victory that doesn’t include them. I always defended them against their detractors until now. A few weeks ago I was fine with Hillary as the nominee. Not anymore! They want a shoot-out and won’t stop until no one is left standing. Howard Dean should stop this before it’s too late.

  by Teddy Roosevelt on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:29:15 PM PDT

  •  No No NO

    Enough people are already against gay marriage, we don't need to make the first couple Tricky Dick and Shrub.  That is too scary to contemplate.

    :)

    by smoosh21 on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:36:59 PM PDT

•  two things to note

  1. 20% of the blacks who voted would be unhappy with Clinton as the nominee according to the exit polls - Tim Russert said this

  2. when Pres. Clinton's speech came on the big screen in Columbia at the Obama rally his voice apparently could not be heard over the booing - read about it here at Politico

  by teacherken on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:29:25 PM PDT

  •  So obama partisans

    don't like the clinton's. Thanks for that Sherlock.

    by WhyWhat on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:30:51 PM PDT

    •  you miss the key point of both items

      1. the Clintons have damaged their brand among African Americans

      2. the press is talking about it, which amplifies it

      by teacherken on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:33:23 PM PDT

      •  No...

        Because they'd still be very well received by most black people outside of a state that will vote Republican anyways, and it's the politico. The average voter doesn't read that. Hell, the average voter doesn't know when their primary is until they notice the 12,243,657 commercials on TV.

        by WhyWhat on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:34:49 PM PDT

        •  dude

          you're messing with the wrong intellect.

          You'll need lots of help to out-think Ken.

          by AlyoshaKaramazov on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:39:15 PM PDT

          •  I'm not out thinking him

            I'm just stating something that is pretty darn near a fact. They'll pick up a newspaper, and put it down and go oh Obama won. Most people won't dig through stuff like we do, pretty common sense.

            by WhyWhat on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:47:03 PM PDT

            •  Condescend, much??

              I'm just stating something that is pretty darn near a fact.

              "That everyone else is dumber than me."

              Prick.

              --Shannon

              by Leftie Gunner on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 06:05:54 PM PDT

            •  Clinton's numbers are sinking among African-

              Americans.  Polls and voting back that up.  They're paying much more attention than you give them credit for.

              by msanthrope on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 06:21:45 PM PDT

        •  uh, no

          I live in Florida and the Clintons have lost me.

          by CocoaLove on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:39:49 PM PDT

          •  I live in Miami

            And most african americans are voting for Obama, but love the clintons.

            by WhyWhat on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:46:11 PM PDT

            •  i'm well aware of that

              I live near Miami and know the landscape very well. But we don't like being played. Kendrick shoulda warned Bill about race baiting. It won't fly with us any more.

              We can easily stay home in November. He better watch out.

              by CocoaLove on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:52:40 PM PDT

              •  Meeks

                is a first class idiot. A shit of a kid considering his amazing mother.

                by WhyWhat on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:56:12 PM PDT

                •  first off

                  it's Meek. Meeks is the black guy from New York.

                  Kendrick Meek is a friend, so watch it.

                  by CocoaLove on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 06:31:59 PM PDT

      •  And that foretells other problems for Clinton

        Obama carried white voters 18-29.  (This from CNN's exit polls.)  Edwards carried white voters generally; Obama had 24% of white voters.  (Clinton had 33% of white voters in NH, so it's not like Obama has a problem with white voters.)

        Oh, yes.  If this guy can beat the Clinton machine in a southern state, it bodes well for his ability to whip McCain's ass in November.

        by liberaldregs on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 06:42:24 PM PDT

    •  And Hillary Clinton can't take the heat

      of a primary loss?

      How's she gonna face up to the Russians!!!

      Bwahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa!

      by AlyoshaKaramazov on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:38:19 PM PDT

    •  Imagine if Clinton partisans

      had booed an on-screen Obama speech.  Imagine what the reaction would be.

      by Radiowalla on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:48:59 PM PDT

•  People vote 2:1 for hope! n/t

  by MingPicket on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:29:35 PM PDT

  •  Or bullshit

    Wouldn't it be nice if they'd vote for an actual record, and actual issues, instead of "hope"?

    by elishastephens on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:31:09 PM PDT

    •  Didn't Nixon saying that in '60 n/t

      by kafkaesque on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:34:10 PM PDT

    •  Losing hurts, huh?

      by internationaljock on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:34:12 PM PDT

    •  Maybe they did, how would you know?

      That comment should be hidden.

      by Builderman on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:46:09 PM PDT

      •  No it's not hide worthy.

        Just leave it there, hideworthy is substanially worse than that. It deserves to be mocked anyway.

        by Timothy Scriven on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:49:32 PM PDT

        •  I TRd and changed my mind.

          Let's just leave it there for everyone to see. It speaks for itself.

          by scardanelli on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:50:42 PM PDT

          •  alright fair enough n/t

            by Builderman on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 06:04:03 PM PDT

    •  Once again, troll rating based on candidate

      This comment was a simple criticism of Obama's vacuous politics, and the tendency to infuse in his exceptional speaking ability whatever the listener wants to hear, a.k.a., "hope." For example, "hope" that he'll end the war after years of voting to fund it.

      Troll rating because you're an Obama supporter and can't take criticism of your candidate is just wrong, and an abuse of the system.

      by elishastephens on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:54:24 PM PDT

    •  Yeah, because

      four fucking years is such a long time!!

      Here's a clue:

      You don't get to claim your spouse's experience as your own. I don't care whether you sit or stand when you take a piss. If you didn't do it, it's not experience.

      Would you let someone cut open your skull because their spouse was a world-renowned brain surgeon?

      Would you let a famous defense lawyer's spouse represent you, if you were on trial for your life?

      This is more serious than either of those examples.

      The gap in actual experience between Clinton 2.0 and Obama 1.0 is so small as to be irrelevant.

      And it doesn't matter anyway. Federal government experience is no predictor of ability as President. Ask Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Roosevelt 1.0, Roosevelt 2.0, or many others.

      Hillary's main campaign theme, "experience," is undermined by two things:

      1. It's bullshit. She's tacking on the years her husband spent in the job to her time in the Senate. Didn't do the time, can't claim the credit. Sorry.

      and

      2. It's irrelevant. The Presidency simply isn't a job that can be prepared for. The only person qualified to claim "experience" as a reason to vote for them is an incumbent. And even that isn't a great advantage... the record of 2nd term Presidents is abysmal.

      --Shannon

      by Leftie Gunner on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 06:18:21 PM PDT

  •  Yeah to bad they didn't vote

    for someone who'd tell them where the hell to direct their hopes.

    by WhyWhat on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:31:20 PM PDT

    •  As in

      "take your hope and shove it", perhaps?

      by Inland on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:36:41 PM PDT

      •  Or

        Your "hope should translate to acting on X".

        by WhyWhat on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:37:50 PM PDT

        •  Yes, indeed.

          I wonder why Obama hasn't thought of that.  Oh, wait, he has.  Never mind.

          by Inland on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:42:30 PM PDT

        •  where X =

          lying about your opponents, discouraging participation in elections, encouraging the opinion that SC has too many black voters to matter...

          by scardanelli on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:47:25 PM PDT

          •  Before you go on the

            I hate the Clintons, frothing from the mouth mode that Republicans and certain liberals tend to have, remember. I'm an Edwards supporter.

            by WhyWhat on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:49:22 PM PDT

            •  Now that I can respect.

              Too bad you feel compelled to be so dismissive of Obama's very substantial record and policy proposals.

              I think Edwards is a great candidate; not sure you're helping him any.

              by scardanelli on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:52:47 PM PDT

              •  The Obama supporters on this site

                Sure as hell don't help their candidate. I'm just saying i'm tired of his empty rhetoric. His record is hardly substantial. Nice thoughts in his policy proposal. Can he actually guide them through?

                by WhyWhat on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:54:42 PM PDT

                •  There's a real dilemma here.

                  But I feel like it applies to Edwards too. For me to feel good about Edwards, I have to believe him when he takes positions that are clearly to the left of his Senate voting record on most issues. To support Obama, I think you have to trust that he makes up with judgment what he lacks in experience, and that his actions will be to the left of his often very centrist rhetoric. I happen to believe both, and think either one would make a great president.

                  by scardanelli on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 06:00:18 PM PDT

•  I haven't been

  this proud of my state in a long time.
  South Carolina wins tonight.

  by Drewid on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:29:35 PM PDT

  •  You guys rock! N/T

    by bmozaffari on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:30:24 PM PDT

  •  MY STATE IS TURNING BLUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Sorry, I never shout like that.

    But it's warranted tonight.

    by teresahill on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:31:39 PM PDT

    •  If you mean SC

      with Obama as the nominee, it might be in the air.

      by Drewid on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:32:54 PM PDT

      •  It happened tonight. We're headed for more Dem

        voters tonight than we had Republicans last week.

        We are blue.

        by teresahill on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:38:46 PM PDT

    •  Then you woke up n/t

      by raatzie on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:35:15 PM PDT

    •  Shouting is definitely called for

      YEEEE-HA!!!!!

      by Tara the Antisocial Social Worker on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:36:19 PM PDT

    •  Good on you!!!

      I'm happy for you.  If you look at the GOP turnout vs. the Dem turnout, SC is CLEARLY in play in November.

      The GOP turnout was around 443,000.  We don't know yet what the DEM vote will be, but 443,000 is within sight.

      If SC is in play, everything is in play.

      by fmrgop on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:43:07 PM PDT

      •  Looks like we're headed for 460,000 or so!!!!!!

        We might want to gently point this out to the media, just in case they don't get it. Must make sure they get it.

        SC is BLUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        by teresahill on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:50:14 PM PDT

        •  Right...

          and I'll be able to sit down just as soon as these winged monkeys stop flying out of my ass.

          South Carolina Dems were more motivated than South Carolina Reps. That's great, as far as it goes. But don't forget that :

          1. There are far more SC Republicans than there are SC Democrats.

          and

          2. The reason that the SC Republicans weren't too enthused about their slate of candidates is that none of them were consistently batshit-insane enough. It's like having to choose between Anton Zander LaVey, Christopher Walken, and Al Pacino, because Satan isn't on the ballot.

          If the Democrats nominated Jesus Christ, and the Republicans nominated Pontius Pilate, South Carolina would still be a Red state.

          --Shannon

          by Leftie Gunner on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 06:27:15 PM PDT

•  Clinton holding audience "hostage"--Joe

  Scarborough!   LOL!!!!

  by Phil S 33 on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:29:35 PM PDT

  •  Joe is right

    Bill can't stop talking about himself. He views this election as a referendum on his presidency and can't believe that we don't appreciate all he's done for us. America OWES him and must put his wife in office.

    by stasis on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:39:48 PM PDT

•  Joe Scarborough: Bill Clinton holding audience

  hostage, for 5 minutes and counting

  (talking about his library, etc.)

  -dms

  by dmsilev on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:29:48 PM PDT

  •  Official Clinton spin

    he won by only 27%

    he lost the white vote

    did we tell you, he's BLACK??!?!

    by AlyoshaKaramazov on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:43:24 PM PDT

•  I hope Edwards sticks around