Daily Kos

Poll: Hillary or George W.?

Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 05:13:08 AM PDT

When my few conservative friends and I talk politics --- something they do with less and less fervor, I might add --- the message I'm getting is similar to what you see on the national level: a walkback from the current administration.  Usually, it'll be a variation of a "he's not a true conservative" theme.

This seems like a load of crap disingenuous to me.  The mantra for the conservatives has been tax cuts for the rich, and I'm sorry to say, that's something Bush was able to deliver, as was stacking the court with conservative judges too afraid to reveal their true opinions during their congressional hearings lest they be rejected.  But rejection of science and evolution, proffering faith-based initiatives --- with the exception of a milquetoast immigration policy, it'd been a conservative administration through and through, most of which with a conservative congress.

[flip]

So I'll admit, I can't help but laugh when they try to distance themselves from Chimpy McCoconuts.  (You see, if the country is falling apart, it's not a reflection of conservative ideals of greed and divisiveness and hate; no, it's because Chimpy wasn't conservative enough.)  And in a way, it's true: despite his best attempts at shredding the constitution and starting World War III, Chimpy wasn't able to achieve the not-so-secret gold standard of conservatives: getting rid of the minimum wage and establishing a new feudalism.  After all, the best way to compete with sweatshops abroad is to have them here at home!

So this year, the Republicans are joining the chorus of anti-Chimpy sentiment, and isn't it funny you don't hear any candidate telling the throngs of supporters how he'll continue in "the George Bush tradition," probably because the paper shredder is busted from overuse.  I'm curious, though, as to the depth of the desire for change on the Republicans' part.

I'd be interested in a poll question that read something like this.

Let's pretend George W. Bush could, and does, run for a third term as president.  If the general election were between him and Hillary Clinton, whom would you vote for?

Of course, he can't run for a third term, because the laws of the land forbid it, and George Bush, above all things, always upholds the law.  (And I guess putting Hillary in there might be baiting a little too much, though I just can't help it.)  However, despite Bush's low approval ratings and this national frenzy for change (even John McCain is a change candidate!), I just don't see many Republican votes for Hillary in this scenario.  Maybe the desire for change is only skin-deep.  But it makes me wonder, what would have to happen for a "true conservative" to vote for a Democrat?

Tags: George W. Bush, conservatism, 2008 elections (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 22 comments

  •  Why are you asking this (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Jim J, Asak, Debbie in ME, donnamarie

    question here?  It is much more suited for Red State.  I don't get the point of this diary other than a incredibly feeble attempt to bash Sen. Clinton.  I do not support Clinton, by the way.

    My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total. Barbara Jordan 1974

    by gchaucer2 on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 05:17:24 AM PDT

    •  Wow (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      John Poet

      Maybe my writing skills have really deteriorated since college.  The point was to question the "desire for change" on the Republican side of the aisle.  I suspect in most cases, that "desire" is tepid at best --- that if push came to shove, they would sooner re-elect GWB than vote for Hillary.  (Which isn't a slam on Hillary, as much as a criticism of current conservatism.)

      Either way, I'm guessing my diary isn't for you.  :)

      "Your poor huddled masses, let's club 'em to death --- and get it over with, and just dump them on the boulevard."

      by RogueJim on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 05:36:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What makes you think the "Republican Side" (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Jim J

        "of the aisle" is HERE, much less would read your diary?

        I'm guessing your diary isn't for dKos.

        Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
        I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
        -Spike Milligan

        by polecat on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 06:26:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You're right (0+ / 0-)

          Clearly there's no room at Daily Kos for questioning conservatives and conservatism.

          What was I thinking.

          "Your poor huddled masses, let's club 'em to death --- and get it over with, and just dump them on the boulevard."

          by RogueJim on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 06:35:37 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Point is for WE DEMSto figure out how to persuade (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          RogueJim

          republican voters, or at least enough of them, to switch sides in the 2008 election, just as e.g. Reagan figured out how to do the inverse in 1980.

          IT IS NOT, however necessary nor probably even desirable to try to use DKos as any sort of direct outreach or direct means of persuasion.  Instead, DKos is our forum to discuss and develop effective tactics by which we can successfully go out and persuade independents and republicans to join our side.  Raising the point that it would be a good idea to work on persuading republicans to peel away to our side is NOT synonymous with suggesting that we bring them here to DKos to try to do so.  As you note, such a tendentious approach would likely be unsuccessful.

  •  Since Bush is nowhere on (0+ / 0-)

    any ballot that I know of, It's hard to see the point of this.  I know the Clintons would love Barack Obama to go away.  Am I detecting the first stage of grieving process here?

    •  Grieving? (0+ / 0-)

      Umm...I'm not sure what you mean.  This really had very little to do with Hillary at all, as much as the sincerity f the desire for change on the opposite side of the aisle.

      "Your poor huddled masses, let's club 'em to death --- and get it over with, and just dump them on the boulevard."

      by RogueJim on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 05:38:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It happened in California yesterday morning (4+ / 0-)

    My husband is a "true conservative", albeit he is registered as an independent, but his politics are conservative, and his core beliefs are conservative. That is the reason why he has grown to hate George W. He believes he is not a real conservative, he just uses it for political expediency. Yesterday morning he filled out a Democratic ballot and voted for Barack Obama. His reason,as told to me, "I may not agree 100% with Obama on his positions, but I believe he is sincere, and the only politician I can support today." In his "conservative" mind, it was either vote Obama or not vote at all. Let's all hope this carries through to the General Election, he is not sure of Romney yet, although he feels Obama is head and shoulders more sincere than Romney. He will never vote McCain, he thinks he is almost as phony as George W., and will not make that mistake again. He could have voted Republican and for Huckabee, who he is partial to, but he chose Obama. I guess Teddy Kennedy is right, "there is something in the air." Maybe it is HOPE.

    •  Good for him (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      benthos

      I don't think he'll regret his choice.  :)

      It's interesting, though: a lot of Rs seemed to have voted for Shrub because he stuck to his convictions, spoke his mind, etc. etc. etc. --- not because his ideas or policies were sound (which, of course, they weren't), but because he was a straight shooter (which, of course, he wasn't). I think Obama has the same sort of appeal (in a way Hillary does not).

      I've heard on Randi's show that Obama's invoking of Reagan was smart in that he might attract Republicans in the way Reagan attracted some Democrats.  I don't know if this was purposeful, but I think that might be right.

      "Your poor huddled masses, let's club 'em to death --- and get it over with, and just dump them on the boulevard."

      by RogueJim on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 05:43:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It didn't effect my husband's choice, (0+ / 0-)

        it was a response I got back from Obama to a letter I wrote, along with his watching Michelle Obama at a campaign rally, and the speech after the Iowa caucus. I also have to admit his strong distaste for the Clintons also played into the Obama vote. However, he could have easily voted for Huckabee, but he didn't, he voted Obama. I guess HOPE, effects everyone. The only issue he is 100% behind Obama on, is the Iraq war, he wants it over and over now. Sorry, he is also against lobbyist money controlling our elected officials and he is also pro-health care reform, other than that he is pretty much conservative. I have to tell you he was undecided between Edwards and Obama for a good while, sometimes leaning more towards Edwards, but finally I think it was the Iowa speech that planted him firmly in the Obama camp. But who really knows, we have been married for 43 years, but I can not read his mind, nor do I want to.

    •  Exactly. I smell a 50 state general election (0+ / 0-)

      landslide in the making.

  •  It would take a candidate that could ignite ... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    RogueJim

    A flame up under the asses of the American Electorate. Barack Obama has done a lot to prove he is that candidate. Whether I'm talking with my fellow patrons at the diner in the morning or patients in my clinic in the afternoon -- both Republican and Democrat -- Obama is thought of as a "good guy" and a positive candidate. Look at the voters he's attracted. Youth in numbers not seen at a caucus or primary in decades (ever?). Independents voting Democratic in record number. To answer your question, it is Senator Obama who could and would attract be able to get some "true conservatives" to vote Democrat.

    Gun control, separation of church and state, women's reproductive rights and the 4th Amendment do matter.

    by sloopydrew on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 05:34:14 AM PDT

    •  I think you're right (0+ / 0-)

      He comes across as honest and with integrity, in a way that Hillary --- for better or for worse --- does not.  I think that'll have bipartisan appeal in the general, if he makes it that far.

      "Your poor huddled masses, let's club 'em to death --- and get it over with, and just dump them on the boulevard."

      by RogueJim on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 05:46:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hillary. (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Jim J

    Obviously.  

  •  Actually, all of the Republican candidates are (0+ / 0-)

    continuing in the George Bush tradition. All defend both going into Iraq and staying there.

    As for your poll, if you polled Republicans, I'm sure they'd say they'd rather have Bush.

  •  Isn't that basically the same (0+ / 0-)

    as polling Clinton against the current Republican candidates?

    "Intelligence and stupidity have no limits. Unfortunately it looks like stupidity has won" -Arsene Wenger

    by brownsox on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 06:13:25 AM PDT

    •  In practice (0+ / 0-)

      Probably.

      But in theory, a con could probably convince himself that McCain = change, Romney = change, etc.

      "Your poor huddled masses, let's club 'em to death --- and get it over with, and just dump them on the boulevard."

      by RogueJim on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 06:31:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Like voting for... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    RogueJim

    ...Kang or Kodos.

    Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos.

    by FishBiscuit on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 06:25:52 AM PDT

  •  Heh. (0+ / 0-)

    Republicans won't admit it, I don't think, but many would vote for her.

    She's more neocon than the likely repub nominee, after all. She has no qualms about invading countries, and she'll do it more competently too. Want to stay in Iraq, or bomb Iran? Need to increase the military, or not roll back the Patriot Act? She's your man. The label might be a little unsettling, but most can see past that.

    Of course, don't expect them to own up afterwards.

    •  I can almost see it (0+ / 0-)

      In fact, with so many "socially liberal" choices on the conservative side, I wonder if that might come to pass in 2008.  Sometimes, I hate politics.

      "Your poor huddled masses, let's club 'em to death --- and get it over with, and just dump them on the boulevard."

      by RogueJim on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 08:17:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

Permalink | 22 comments