Daily Kos

Does McCain Being the Republican Nominee Change the Dynamic for the Democrats?

Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:21:35 PM PDT

It's now safe to say that McCain has all but wrapped up the Republican nomination.  He is also the one Republican running who regularly beats or gets within the margin of error against Hillary Clinton in a general election matchup (he beats Obama too, but by less).  McCain, it has to be noted if we're being clear-eyed, is, of the entire Republican field, the one guy that can be competitive outside of the Republican base.  He can bring in Independents, he can cross party lines and poach votes from beyond the Republican core.  He does better the more open the primary, and his popularity ratings, unlike all the other Republicans, actually rises as the constituency gets less right-wing, relative to other Republican figures at least.    

The question is, does that become a factor in your vote?  

Where I'm going with this:  I hear a lot "any of our candidates will win in November", but I'm not entirely sure that's true.  We've seen a lot of Democrats being turned off by the Clinton machine as this race has gotten close; can you imagine how that will play among Independents (and one candidate clearly has more strength outside of the Democratic party than the other)?  And McCain is also a guy that creates a lot of disillusionment among the most partisan of Republicans, i.e. might not be able to turn out his base in the regular Rovian way---but those same Republicans he annoys can be moved to the ends of the earth if it means lining up against a Clinton.

What's more, a lot of his weaknesses, it seems to me, play much worse against Obama than Clinton.  He reeks of establishment party-lining, but that's a hard charge to make stick coming from Clinton.  He's pro-war, but that becomes a matter more of parsing with Clinton than clear difference as with Obama (we'll have to hear an awful lot of hedging about her Senate votes, Lieberman amendment vote, and lack of wedge policy difference in terms of withdraw).  He's old, and nobody alive seems to exude youth and vigor and newness as Obama does.  He's hopelessly Senatorial, but, whether you love her or hate her, so is Clinton.  He's distrusted by the religious (less so with Obama).  He doesn't play well in the South (Obama has a shot in some places there).  The media love him (they love one Democrat, and love to hate the other).  He's seen as changing his positions for the sake of political expediency.  He's got problems explaining corporate ties and monied interests but with some mainstream credibility in campaign finance reform that lets him go on the attack against other opponents on that matter.  As much as we may hate this kind of rhetoric, he gets a lot of mileage out of talking about "reaching across the aisle".  I think, of our two candidates, there's only one that can even neutralize that kind of thing, much less make it an advantage for them, and it will almost surely be an effective tool in a McCain arsenal for the general election (again, whatever you might personally think of it).    

In short, one of our candidates seems a lot better positioned to take him on on all of these Achilles heels than the other.  

Bit of disclosure, I'm an Obama guy if you can't tell (well actually, at present, I'm a Ron Paul guy, but I will be an Obama guy if he gets the nod, and I'm not even a Democrat).  But I've been saying for a long time that the only possible scenario for the Democrats losing this election is if it comes down to Clinton-McCain.  

As much of a leading question as this is, I'm honestly interested (I'm just giving my own take upfront):  

Given that we now know that McCain will be the nominee, and we also know his strengths/weaknesses and how he matches up against the candidate, does that effect your own calculus in how to win in November, and who the best chance lies with?

   

Tags: John McCain, general election, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 72 comments

  •  I am in no way convinced of the premise (5+ / 0-)

    Mitt is still quite close, and there are a lot of big money that would rather have Mittens then McCain.  

    And I also wouldn't count out Huckabee's position.

    I am of the opinion that a brokered convention is a real possibility in the R's future.

    •  Doubt it. (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      SlowNomad

      Many winner take all states on 2/5.  Romney isn't going to spend any more of his own money after that.  Time to pick our best competitor who can bring in NEW voters b/c the old ones are going to be split or leaning down the middle.

      John McCain votes against Children's Healthcare

      by Hope08 on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:31:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thats true but (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        penncove

        what evidence is there that McCain can win most or all of them?

        •  My suspicion is that those states will be split (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Rolfyboy6

          I wouldn't be surprized to see McCain get a majority, but nowhere near enough to begin to be considered the nominee.  Romney will get some (less than McCain, but a good share), and Huckabee will get a small percentage of bible belters.

          •  The Republican primary isn't like the Democrats (0+ / 0-)

            Most states are winner-take-all, not by CD like in the Democratic races.  

            Chances are, just doing the basic math, McCain comes out of Super Tuesday with about 900+ delegates, Romney with less than 200.  

            1.1k are needed for the mathematical win.  

            Very hard to see where Huckabee or Romney go from here, and Huckabee is at this point playing just to spoil Romney (and, he hopes, to get a VP slot in so doing).  

            There's still a very slim chance that Romney might be able to so fundamentally rearrange the race that he has a chance, but don't bet on it.  It's about time to assume that McCain has it all but locked.  

            What's the difference between Iraq and Vietnam? Bush knew how to get out of Vietnam.

            by glibfidget on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:40:04 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I understand that, but do you really expect (0+ / 0-)

              McCain to take most of them?  I don't.

              •  I do (0+ / 0-)

                I'll put money on it, if you like.  

                Romney has had effectively the entire season to sell himself, and so far, he's only been bouyed to a distant, distant second by having massive organization and money in the January states.  That no longer plays.  Romney polls in single digits nationally.  McCain's only competition for most of the February 5th big states was Rudy.    

                The only other selling point over McCain that he's had is with evangelicals.  Huckabee in the race (and colluding with McCain, which at this point he is) effectively neutralizes that.  By the time Huckabee leaves (and endorses McCain, which he will, if not outright become his VP), McCain will be so far ahead it will be mathematically impossible---or so close to it to effectively be the same thing---for Romney to catch up.  

                Anything can happen, of course...usual caveats apply.  But it's pretty safe to begin operating on the assumption that McCain is going to be the Republican nominee.  Romney is more than a 15 to 1 underdog at this point.  

                Put it another way, if McCain can win Florida, New Hampshire, and South Carolina and is ahead virtually everywhere else...where do you expect Romney to topple him?

                What's the difference between Iraq and Vietnam? Bush knew how to get out of Vietnam.

                by glibfidget on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 03:08:40 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  He win most (0+ / 0-)

          He'll win the really BIG ones: nj,ny, ca.  That's important b/c he'll rack up the delegates.  If Romney can't take the old guy out tonight then it will be over.  

          John McCain votes against Children's Healthcare

          by Hope08 on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:36:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I don't think so (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Rolfyboy6

      Huckabee is effectively out of it.  He isn't going to be able to hang with the big two, although now I think there may be some conservatives who wish he could.  

      Now Mitt, I grant you.  He could still catch McCain.  

      I seriously doubt a brokered convention, however, because of the nature of Republican primaries.  Many of them are winner-take-all, unlike Democratic primaries which all have proportional representation.  That leads to a situation in which one of them should come out on top without there being a brokered convention.  

      "The struggle of man against power is the struggle of memory against forgetting." Milan Kundera

      by Guy Fawkes on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:36:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  there are also a lot of loud voices (0+ / 0-)

      that don't want Johnny Mac, like the Vulgar Pigboy.

    •  Huckabee's VP for either one tho (0+ / 0-)

      --that's already necessary bec neither Romney nor McCain draw the religious right base they need/

      And then, he farted candy and rainbows...

      by amberglow on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 03:27:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  There's a lot of the race left. (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Rolfyboy6, pHunbalanced, ratador

    Even a candidate who polls behind McCain could still win the general election.  There's quite a few months of campaigning to go.

  •  Let's do some math here (4+ / 0-)

    Right now, McCain has 89 delegates. He needs 1,191 to win the Republican nomination.

    At best, your comment is premature. I'm not sure it's really a good idea to start lobbying one side about who should be nominated based on who the other side MIGHT nominate. Politics by reaction doesn't work very well.

    •  Let's do the math then (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      pHunbalanced

      David Freddoso:

      In my opinion, the nomination is now his to lose. He now has an estimated 97 delegates (per CNN). Next Tuesday, he'll win New York (101), New Jersey (52), Connecticut (30), and Arizona (53). He'll probably also win Oklahoma (41) and Missouri (58).

      These are — off the top of my head — all of the winner-take-all states on Super Tuesday (except Utah). They'll leave McCain with a total of 432 delegates. That's before any of the California delegates, of which he's sure to take several. He'll get some in Illinois and some in the proportional states in the South (where Romney won't do well anyway), and some in the caucus states. My guess is he'll finish Super Tuesday with no fewer than 700 delegates, and perhaps as many as 900.

      Romney will probably have about 250 at that point, maybe something like 400 if he does unexpectedly well in the caucus states. The threshold for victory is 1,191.

      Like I said, it is certainly mathematically possible for Romney to still win.  But to do so he has to have a 20-point national surge in, essentially, 5 days.  And it's not like Mitt Romney is unknown to the Republican base at this point and just waiting for a "breakout", particularly with Huckabee still around to suck up the South and evangelicals.      

      So, I think it's safe to at least make some learned assumptions here.  

      It'll be McCain.  

      What's the difference between Iraq and Vietnam? Bush knew how to get out of Vietnam.

      by glibfidget on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:52:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  No, but I've been (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    ratador, MingPicket

    an Obama supporter for a long time.

    One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. - Plato

    by Hanging Up My Tusks on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:29:06 PM PDT

  •  this is my concern (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    glibfidget, MingPicket

    as a supporter of Hillary.  I'm still backing her and it takes more than a bunch of insults flung at her to change my loyalties...in fact, insults just make me dig in my heels.  But I am very concerned about the electability question.  We CAN NOT afford even 4 more years of disastrous republican rule.  I'm a supporter of Hillary, but I'm not absolutely sold and I may make another decision come Super Tuesday.

  •  McCain is no Moderate (6+ / 0-)

    He'll continue the George Bush style of governing.

    •  The problem is he seems like a moderate (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      amberglow

      and actually in some ways, he is sort of moderate, compared to other Republicans(which I guess isnt saying much). On torture, tax cuts, global warming, stem cell research, gay marriage, McCain is probably closer to the Democratic position than the Republican position.

      •  mussolini was a moderate (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        everhopeful

        compared to Hitler.

        The point is (and I'm not comparing MCCain to Hitler) that the lesser of two extremes is not a moderate.

        I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

        by davefromqueens on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:41:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm not making a judgement on that either way (0+ / 0-)

          But I am saying McCain is SEEN as a moderate, and has spent years effectively culling that reputation (moderate, maverick, etc).

          Whether dailykos regulars see it that way is a much less interesting question than how that plays out among a general electorate.  :)

          What's the difference between Iraq and Vietnam? Bush knew how to get out of Vietnam.

          by glibfidget on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:43:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Absolutely! (0+ / 0-)

          And how "moderate" will he be when he appoints 2 or 3 wingnut judges? The McCain regressive wingnut Supreme Court will negate all his so-called "liberal" positions on climate change, gay marriage, immigration,  stem cell research, on and on and on...not to mention repealing Roe v. Wade.

          Nope - McCain can say any "maverick, liberal, moderate, normal" thing he wants now - he doesn't mean it - because if he's POTUS he WILL APPOINT wingnut justices and it all goes down the tubes - for generations to come.

          Some moderate...

      •  McCain is a conservative disguised as a moderate (5+ / 0-)

        Clinton is a moderate disguised as a liberal.  Not a winning formula.

    •  And, (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      amberglow, rscottrewak

      he can be easily painted as a war-monger and Bush sycophant. Like even nutjob Pat Buchanan said, McCain is a neocon - Bush on steroids! And, if McCain is president we WILL be at war with Iran, not to mention we will not get out of Iraq - period.

      Even republicans (the sane ones, I mean) don't want more war.

      Plus, McCain knows LESS THAN NOTHING about economic matters - and hasn't the slightest clue (or care) about how to help the middle class, the poor, universal health care, or anything else progressives and many independent progressives care about.

      All McCain's got are the media and the media's "maverick" narrative. And that will change as McCain implodes down the line...

  •  I think it does (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    glibfidget, MingPicket

    the issue of perceived electability against McCain now becomes an issue.  My gut is that this gives an edge to Obama in red and purple states, because the people there know how well Clinton plays.  In Kansas or Idaho or Utah, I think Clinton's chances are going to really dwindle.
    It probably doesn't make a difference in CA, NY, NJ, or any hard blue states.

    John McCain's Something for Everyone Plan: Military draft for youth, SS benefit cuts for elderly, Middle Class destruction, stock market plunge for wealthy.

    by IhateBush on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:31:30 PM PDT

  •  Conservatives hate McCain (0+ / 0-)

    as much or maybe more than some Democrats hate Hillary. They believe he will destroy the Republican party and are going after him big time on the radio shows. I think you will find as many Republicans staying home as you do Democrats if Hillary wins...although I hope the democrats will support her. The evangelicals dislike McCain too and will have no reason to get out and vote for him. I would not be surprised if they push a third party candidate.

    •  evangelicals have every reason (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      MingPicket

      to vote for mccain: it's called hatred of the clintons, and I think a lot of us here underestimate that hatred. obama is the only way we are going to convince moderates to swing our way instead of staying home. the protest vote against hillary will practically ensure the victory of any republican nominee, but most especially mccain. we should be very worried indeed.

  •  Now we can break out the Elmer Fudd cartoons (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    global citizen, ratador

    Just give McCain a shotgun and a hunter's cap and you'll have a spitting image!

    Waster of electrons, unlawful enemy combatant.

    by meldroc on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:35:19 PM PDT

  •  The "competitive" McCain is an artifact... (4+ / 0-)

    of a sycophantic media that refuses to examine him critically. Because reporters personally like the guy, they just don't apply the same negative memes and harsh scrutiny applied to Hillary, Obama, Willard, the Huckster and 9iu11iani.

    Any competent oppo-research team will quickly delve into his slimy involvement with the Keating S&L scandal, his embrace of Bush's clusterfuck in Iraq, his lack of any economic comprehension whatsoever. Then there's his Giulliani-like history of marital fidelity. From where I stand, his only real positive is his Vietnam era "sainthood", mostly because Democrats have too many scruples to Swift-boat the guy.

  •  Fact is Hillary Has a Low Ceiling (6+ / 0-)

    Right or wrong, A LOT of America will not vote for Hillary--especially if McCain is the alternative.  Polls show it (and remember, the polls do not adequately reflect the new voters Obama is bringing in to the system).  People you know will tell you hillary will have a tougher time winning.  I have a close, moderate Republican friend who would vote for Obama against any Republican except McCain, but would be torn between Obama and McCain.  However, she would volunteer and do anything to defeat Hillary.

    Hillary would have to win the election like W did twice but in reverse--win the Gore states plus 1 or 2.  What does that give us?  The Presidency?  Yes, but Hillary could easily lose that gamble.  In addition, down ticket Dems will suffer and she will not bring out the hoards of new voters Obama would.  In addition, if it is Obama v. McCain, lots of Republicans would stay home.  If it is McCain v. Clinton, the Hillary haters would be out and proud.

    Not saying it is right--just calling it like it is.

  •  A Ron Paul guy?? (0+ / 0-)

    Oh, for fuck's sake.

  •  Hillary will be slaughtered (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    ratador

    because she's so hated by so many.  She comes to the table with huge amounts of baggage and bad blood.  She will energize the conservatives to come out and vote against her.  They will swallow McCain's platform in droves just so they don't have to deal with drinking their own bile for the next four years.  It's utterly impossible for her to win Florida, among other states.

    And here is the most salient point: even if she wins, she won't be able to get anything done.  DC will be trapped in a morass of gridlock the likes of which you've never seen.  And after two years, she'll hand the Republicans the keys to the House, if not the Senate.

    Anyway, she's already failed us on healthcare, and some of the reasons she failed the first time still dog her.

    Rabid imperialist at the fringe

    by Arculi on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:38:26 PM PDT

  •  We can beat McCain in a landslide (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    amberglow, rscottrewak, Helene Norway

    if we simply tell the truth about his record.

    However, if we want to fall for the trap of calling somebody a moderate just because they vote moderate 3% of the time or we want to parrot the memes of the corporate media because they say MCcain will be tough to beat, then we're drawing straws.

    It's up to us.

    I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

    by davefromqueens on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:39:33 PM PDT

    •  You've got it backwards (0+ / 0-)

      Actually, convincing the voting public that he's really a conservative is precisely what will get him elected.  Most independents don't really mind a conservative streak, and the Republican base will be suddenly energized if he is seen and characterized as one of them.

      Rabid imperialist at the fringe

      by Arculi on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 02:42:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  beat McCain (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    everhopeful, Helene Norway

    A Clinton/Obama ticket would beat McCain handily.  She would take away some of the edge of his "experience" and Obama will be able to add new young voters to the Democratic column.

    I don't think the Obama message of change/bipartisanship is going to work against McCain.  It's too much like his "Mr. Maverick" schtick.

    •  But McCain's... (0+ / 0-)

      ...change/bipartisanship schtick may well work against Clinton.  It's not like that would be a tough sell to the media/conservative/independent voters.  That's sort of my point, on that issue.  

      Obama effectively kills any chance of that schtick working dead, and even turns it on him.  

      What's the difference between Iraq and Vietnam? Bush knew how to get out of Vietnam.

      by glibfidget on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 03:03:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Why on earth (0+ / 0-)

      would Barack Obama accept the VP slot?  If he loses this race, he wins $10 million in speaking fees.  Add to that, I don't think he really likes the Clinton machine after all he's been through.

      Personally, the way this campaign has been conducted has so turned me off to them that I'll have to swallow hard before voting for Hillary in the general.

      •  Because Obama with VP experience is unstoppable (0+ / 0-)

        it won't even be fair in 2016, even IF Clinton loses in 2012 because of all the Bush disasters hitting the fan in the next president's term.

        He'll definitely do it.  

        And it will be good for the party.  Hillary will make sure that dem senior demographic comes out big.  And Hillary will increase female turnout maybe 33% for the dems.  And then Obama will cause youth turnout and African American turnout to double.  

        "There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible. But in the end they always fall. Think of it. Always." -- Mahatma Gandhi

        by duha on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 03:30:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Obama will not take the VP slot (0+ / 0-)

          He and Clinton do not get along and he would not take the spot.  

          •  having the chance to affect the world trumps (0+ / 0-)

            personal issues.  

            He's going to have to go around the country campaigning hard for Hillary no matter what (or else be seen as a sore loser who isn't helping the democratic party).

            Why would he turn down the chance to get a VP slot for he energy and inspiration that he brings?  And even with the ugliness that occurred with Bill, I bet Bill sees no one more as a possible protege down the line than Obama.

            "There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible. But in the end they always fall. Think of it. Always." -- Mahatma Gandhi

            by duha on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 03:58:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  More to the point... (0+ / 0-)

            Who thinks Clinton would offer it?

            What's the difference between Iraq and Vietnam? Bush knew how to get out of Vietnam.

            by glibfidget on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 04:20:51 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  McCain is easier to beat than ... (0+ / 0-)

    Romney or Huckabee.  

    a) romney - conservatives might not like mormons, but liberals couldn't care less, so his main 'negative' among republicans will not apply.

    b) huckabee - the guy's got dimples for goodness sakes.  :)  Plus he has come out against the Iraq war.  

    •  Disagree. McCain is the hardest to beat. (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      pHunbalanced, amberglow, MingPicket

      Yeah, you can quote him in a gotcha manner...but he's got more mainstream appeal than the other (crazy) Republicans.

      Compared to the others, he IS a moderate. (Yeah, he's saying extra-crazy things to win the nomination...)

      If we had gotten him instead of Bush in 2000, we'd be in bad shape, but not as bad. He's dangerous, but not bat-sh!t crazy...like Bush.

      And, I fear, he'd get a reasonable amount of Democrats to vote for him...especially against Hillary. I don't think Romney or Huckabee would get more than a handful of Dem votes...if any.

      When a government violates the unalienable rights of the people, it loses its legitimacy.

      by Rayk on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 03:05:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Romney is easiest to beat by far (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        pHunbalanced

        And then, he farted candy and rainbows...

        by amberglow on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 03:28:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  McCain hardest, Romney easiest, Huckabee between (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          amberglow

          McCain competes against Obama or Clinton in all but the true blue states. Romney takes only the reddest of red states and probably even gives up a southern state or two if we choose Obama. Huckabee takes the heavily evangelical south and the reddest western states, maybe even giving up places like Alaska and Montana due to bleeding to the Libertarian Party.

          The only one to fear is McCain. Romney would be almost as much of a joke as Ghouliani would have been.

          Sadly, the GOP seems to have figured this out. McCain is winning on the electability.

  •  P.S. - I forgot to mention ... (0+ / 0-)

    McCain is not likeable.  Plus, he's old.  For a country yearning for change, 'old' isn't gonna cut it..

  •  conservative republican (0+ / 0-)

    as some of you know, i am a conservative republican, lord knows i've been called every name in the book. be that as it may, i would never vote for mccain or hillary, this year i'm voting for Barak Obama because i am sick and tired of the fighting between the repubs and the dems which i hold both parties responsible for. i really believe that the good senator Obama has not been tainted by wash. politics and that he and he alone can reunite the country again and get beyond the partisan bickering, so for better or worse my vote goes wholeheartedly to Mr. Barak Obama. i hope my faith in him is justified. so please don't crucify me this time around

  •  McCain walks & talks like a human (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    pHunbalanced, MingPicket

    which can't be said of most of the other Republican candidates.  He is a tougher opponent for the Dems in the GE than any of the others.  But.  This will be a 'change' election.  Obama is new.  McCain is same-old-same-old.  (So is Hillary).  So Obama is the winner.

    Does the star spangled banner still wave o'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

    by blue guitar on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 03:17:40 PM PDT

  •  I'd don't think we'd even have to wait (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Helene Norway

    for the Cheney-oid.  A guy who can sing about 'Bomb Bomb Bomb...Bomb Bomb Iran' is capable of doing more than enough mischief on his own.  The deceptive thing about McCain is that he can present himself as a normal guy who would not Bomb Iran.

    Does the star spangled banner still wave o'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

    by blue guitar on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 03:29:23 PM PDT

    •  Have to wait (0+ / 0-)

      what scares the shit out of me is i have a daughter in the army who has just completed her 2nd tour in iraq and she does not need another war for that matter the country does not need another one and i believe that Obama will be much more thoughtful before he commits our troops to another conflict, so as you can see, i really have a dog in this race

      •  Hillary does seem more militant (0+ / 0-)

        I think it might be an overreaction to the subconscious notion that women are somehow "weak" on defense.  Or maybe it's just a calculation designed to position herself where she thinks she needs to be on defense issues.  I'm not sure her heart is into it.

        Rabid imperialist at the fringe

        by Arculi on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 03:44:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Yes (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    pHunbalanced

    We need to pick the most electable progressive. Ooops.  He dropped out today.

    A proud member of the "far left."

    by Paleo on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 04:12:36 PM PDT

    •  Sadly, he never had a real chance. (0+ / 0-)

      Star power, media bias, old favors being called in ... all this stuff matters a lot in the real world. Edwards' one big chance was to win in Iowa or, after that chance was gone, to finish a very strong second again in NH or NV.

      Edwards was ironically the candidate with the most leftist platform and the strongest appeal to the centrist swing voter. That's a rare and wonderful combination, but it just didn't catch fire.

  •  "35 years of experience" (0+ / 0-)

    alla sudden don't look so hot against Johnny Mac.

    I know who Obama's veep will be. You can too!

    by slaney black on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 05:50:57 PM PDT

Permalink | 72 comments