Obama and Religion

I absolutely HATE the idea of bring religion into politics.  But, since this seems to be a part of the recent discussion, I am going to throw my 2 cents into this.  Part of it too is being driven by the many headed hydra of none other than ...

Donnie Mcclurkin: This whole thing irritated me too.  But, I have actually seen people declare that they are not supporting Obama based on this episode.  I find this a tad hypocritical since I failed to see to much support for Dennis Kucinich on this site, who, after all was the only candidate supporting fully the LGBT community.

Hopefully though, that isn't what this diary is about.

Barack Obama sure talks a lot about God : This kind of irritates me too.  He seems to be talking about it more than the other candidates (well, except for Mike Huckabee!)  But, after a breath and a pause, I also know that no other candidate is being called out as a traitorous Manchurian Muslim Candidate -- so, for me, I am giving him a pass on this one.

Now, for those of You fence sitting on this whole Donnie McClurkin thing or anything else, let me take You into the way back machine
To a patordan diary from 2004

Basically, the UCC was having their advertisements banned because of controversial subject matter.  Here is probably my favorite of the series:

Bouncer Ad

Ejector Ad

There was overwhelming support of the DailyKos community back then for the support of this ad campaign, in that virtually all of us saw 'the better angels' of religion as represented in these ads.

And You know what -- THIS IS Barack Obama's Church

While bothered by some aspects of religion in this campaign, I can hear Barack Obama's voice in these commercials and the message of these commercials in him.

•  Tips for

  ALL THE PEOPLE ....

  oh, by the way ... i am an atheist, and this ad moves even me!

  by josephk on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 10:14:28 AM PDT

•  I loved that commercial, and I didn't know that

  was Obama's church. Thanks!

  by Travis Stark on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 10:21:06 AM PDT

•  He was raised agnostic, too

  and became a Christian after college.  The momentous importance of that is that he can be counted on to understand the viewpoint of non-believers and never demonize us or trample on our rights.

  by Troutnut on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 10:21:54 AM PDT

  •  good point

    Atheist here as well.

    I think there is a difference in the way that men like Carter admitted to a simple faith, and the manner it which it was so crassly used in the bush admin. Or could hope to be used in a Huckabee or Romney admin. The folks on the right have established it as some sort of an urgent agenda. If I recall correctly isn't Rove an agnostic? What irony!

    I'll hang with Thomas Jefferson on this...

    by valadon on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 10:47:11 AM PDT

•  I don't give an angel's feather about Obama's

  religion; how does he plan to fix the economy, what's he going to do about universal health care, how long before he withdraws our troops from Iraq?

  by Lepanto on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 10:21:56 AM PDT

  •  i totally agree

    but ... IF i hadn't read in other diaries recently -- especially the "iwasaJRE supporter ... now i am supporting ..." that had referenced Donnie McClurkin, i can guarantee You i would not be writing this diary ...

    but ... here it is ...

    by josephk on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 10:30:55 AM PDT

    •  It's a fine diary

      Better than 90% of what gets run up the flagpole.  It's a valid comment on a specific if narrow campaign topic.  I'm not concerned about every single issue but I don't blame people who do care for discussing it.

      by Quicklund on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 11:35:40 AM PDT

  •  Then why did you open this diary?

    The title was a tipoff, I thought. You're complaining about truth in advertizing?

    by Quicklund on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 11:30:52 AM PDT

•  I look forward to the day when an atheist can

  run for president and it's not an issue...though that day may not come until long after I'm dead.

  by darthstar on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 10:25:17 AM PDT

  •  Amen to that!

    sorry ... couldn't help it! ...

    though i am claiming a snark pass here as an atheist!

    by josephk on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 10:27:19 AM PDT

    •  some do claim

      that George Washington was an agnostic.
      I don't know about that, but I do know that he didn't want a minister at his death bed.

      by HugoDog on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 10:38:43 AM PDT

•  As a Jew

  it makes me slightly uncomfortable to hear politicians talk about G-d, since most of them are not Jewish and have a different conception of G-d than I do, but I'm willing to accept it if it's genuine. I believe Obama is genuinely religious and motivated by his faith, so I don't have a problem with him talking about it.

  But I think it is both offensive and politically stupid for politicians who are not religious (or weren't before they began running for president) to try to play up their religion.

  In 2004, I had a regular babysitting job, and the girl's mother was a staunch liberal and a turned-off Catholic who had made a firm break with her religion after years of being forced to attend Catholic school growing up. I asked her if she had any qualms about voting for Kerry since he was Catholic, and she said no, because she knew that he wasn't really religious and was just playing it up to appeal to voters. If she could see through it, so could the religious voters, and that could have something to do with why Kerry was the first Democratic presidential candidate in many years to lose the Catholic vote. I fully respect politicians who are religious and politicians who aren't, but pretending to be more or less religious than you are is just bad politics.

  In an ideal world, religion would be completely separate from politics, but, as President Bartlet on the West Wing put it so eloquently, the Constitution might call for the separation of Church and State, but says nothing about the separation of Church and Politics.

  by democrattotheend on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 10:25:57 AM PDT

  •  A different G-d

    We might disagree about G-d, but the requirements of our religions for social justice are identical.  The Republican evangelicals have lost sight of these central commands, and that's why I switched from Republican to "Not Declared" many years ago (I'm in CA), and why I registered as a (gulp!) Democrat recently.  To be frank, Obama helped me over that "tipping point", not HRC.

    by rnaworld on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 10:49:13 AM PDT

•  I can't stand to see candidates sucking the asses

  of "preachers" and other religious wack jobs.  I've seen both candidates do it, and it's disgusting.  Most of these churches are intolerant and militantly homophobic, and political candidates have no place in them.

  When a candidate goes on about their "church", it turns me right off.  I don't want my leaders being a part of these looney cults.  If I wanted that, I'd vote for a Republican!

  by hlvs on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 10:26:35 AM PDT

  •  I really don't think the UCC

    fits into that category, though. Certainly I have many gay friends who feel at home there, even in the South. You might check them out when you have some time.

    But I do realize that the loudest, most obnoxious religious leaders attract a lot of attention.  They really aren't in the majority.

    by texasmom on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 11:13:15 AM PDT

•  To admit to ones

  faith is not a bad thing (sometimes) but there is a suttel difference here. The Repugs are basing their campaign upon their faith. With regards to Dennis Kucinich, I think he is the best, most decent Politician in the USA today.

  by langerdang on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 10:27:22 AM PDT

•  It does bother me that he talks about it so much,

  and I'm not reassured by which his church is (one of the most liberal in the country), because the point is that religion and government shouldn't mix, not that scary religions and government shouldn't mix.

  But Hillary plays the same game.  I don't see much of a difference between them on this.  Or on many other issues, for that matter.

  by cjallen on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 10:28:05 AM PDT

•  I'm an atheist and I belong to the UCC

  Mainly because my parents are members. But it also goes to show how liberal the church is.

  by Wiffle on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 10:28:50 AM PDT

  •  i am an atheist because of the UCC

    well -- that is probably a little hyperbole!

    but, my parents, and by extension as a child, i was a UCC member -- but the fact that it is so Non-Dogmatic and accepting made it much easier i am guessing than it is for other religious denominations ...

    by josephk on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 10:34:03 AM PDT

•  I'm still waiting for a candidate

  to respond to a question such as "what's your favorite biblical verse?" by saying that they find the question completely inappropriate based on the constitutional mandate that there shall be nor religious test for holding office.

  I suspect I'll be waiting a long, long time. Sigh.

  by HugoDog on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 10:42:15 AM PDT

•  you know what's weird, though,

  the religious group among which Obama does best is atheists.

  by olivert on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 10:45:38 AM PDT

  •  is that true!?

    i am an atheist ... and i support him ...

    i wonder though if that is a correlation closer to the Academic/higher educated support for Obama and what is naturally a corollary?

    by josephk on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 10:47:47 AM PDT

  •  Atheism is not a religion

    otherwise I can accept your comment ;)

    by valadon on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 10:50:58 AM PDT

    •  if atheism is a religion

      then baldness is a hair color

      One of my favorite response to that so called meme

      by josephk on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 11:19:05 AM PDT

      •  I'll have to remember that one

        Joseph! thnx ;)

        by valadon on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 11:30:02 AM PDT

        •  Very appropriate

          ...says this bald atheist.

          by milkbone on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 11:53:19 AM PDT

      •  That is a good one n/t

        by Quicklund on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 11:52:00 AM PDT