Daily Kos

Poll for California Edwards Voters

Sun Jan 06, 2008 at 05:38:43 PM PDT

I'm a California voter, and have to vote early this year (as usual). I'm determined not to do as I've done in the past, that is, essentially waste my vote by casting it absentee for a candidate who is out of the race by the time the polls close on the actual day of teh election.

I've been supporting Edwards, but I'm frankly not optimistic he's going to survive through Feb. 5th. But because the vast number of delegates this season are being selected that day, in theory, he could still be competitive with a good showing that day. I'm curious about what other California Edwards voters are thinking they might do in the eternal tactics-vs.-principle of not wanting a vote for Z to benefit X because Z and Y are alternaties to X. Read on for an explanation and poll.

I work on the local election board every election, and I vote early(at the county office or absentee, depending on whether the county has remembered to send my ballot out), since I don't work in my precinct and it's difficult to impossible to get away long enough to drive back to cast a ballot in person.

Usually I have my mind made up on everything well in advance, so this is not a problem. However, in Presidential primaries, this is a real problem, since voting even a day early can result in casting a ballot for somebody who's already dropped out. I do like voting early, especially when I can hand-deliver my ballot to the county office, so I can have some assurance my vote is in the hopper already and in case there's any kind of screw-up with my registration or whatever, so I can take care of it before election day. (This has happened to me twice in 24 years of voting, so I'm mildly paranoid about this.)

So, yes, I know, I can put off dropping my ballot in the mail until a week or so before the election, but I don't think the basic conundrum is going to change much by then, since I think Edwards will still be in third place in terms of resources.

Without this being intended as a negative comment, I don't think Clinton has as strong a chance in the general election as Obama, Edwards, or even Richardson. She would make a decent President, but I've seen nothing in her performance in this campaign to date that makes me think she won't erode further under the usual rigors of the campaign. I don't want to let this post turn into a discussion about HRC's chances, please, this is more or less directed at my fellow Edwards supporters who may also be fence-sitting for Obama.

I like Obama. I'm mildly concerned about the lack of experience being used as an issue against him, although frankly I think this is overstated. I wish his policies and focus were as well-defined as Edwards' have been, but similarly I have wished of late that Edwards was capable of commanding an audience and projecting that ethereal Presidential quality that Obama has been doing nicely. That said, on paper I long ago totted up all the candidates' relative qualities and decided that Edwards was, on paper, slightly preferable to Obama, and that the two of them were quite a bit ahead of the rest of the pack in terms of what I wanted in a President.

And, bloviating in the NH debate yesterday aside, I do buy Edwards' characterization of Obama and he being more candidates for change than Clinton, who, for better or for worse, can be best characterized as a revival candidate (the basis of her "experience", such as it differs from Edwards and Obama - they're all one-term Senators more or less -- is entirely her relationship to the WH Clinton administrations. Going back to the good old days is a valid platform, but it's not one I am really hep on at this point.)

But the reality of the political calendar and the bankroll is that it sure seems like Obama and Clinton are the two candidates in it for the long haul. Edwards took matching money, which inherently limits his ability to spend tactically, and does not look, as he did for much of the first month of the primary season in '04, like the only viable alternative to the presumptive nominee (Kerry in that case). I did vote for Edwards in '04, and he of course dropped out after the early returns the day of the California primary, but he was behind Wes Clark and Howard Dean on my personal ordered list that year.

If I would vote for Obama over Clinton, and vote for Edwards in what would likely be only a symbolic vote if he's not in any position to actually win the nomination (spare me the idea that losers influence the platform -- they don't, not anymore), then essentially I'm helping out Clinton.

Here's another way of putting it: electability is an issue. Is "nominatability" also a valid basis on which to cast a vote?

Call me a waverer, but I want my vote to make a difference in the primary if it's a binary choice at that point.

I thought about asking this poll question more generically, but I decided that to really get good data, it would be helpful for me to limit my intended poll audience to my fellow California Edwards supporters, since voting as a bloc in this matter actually might be tactically smarter. And, to answer the inevitable cynical question on the matter, I'm genuinely pondering the issue of tactics vs. principle, as I often do in primary battles -- this is not intended as a sandbag for anyone's particular benefit.

So I'm asking only Edwards supports in California to respond to the poll below. It's not scientific, of course, but we'll see what the comment trail suggests.

Poll

If the candidate you support is not in a strong position to win the nomination, but is still on the ballot at the time you have to cast it, what do you think you'll do?

76%90 votes
23%27 votes

| 117 votes | Vote | Results

Tags: california primary, presidential election, john edwards, barack obama, voting tactics (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 24 comments

  •  easy answer for an Obama supporter (0+ / 0-)

    since he's well on his way to fulfilling both criteria.

    •  If Obama were in Edwards' position, then... (0+ / 0-)

      Pretend Obama was the third-place runner who'd just come up short in Iowa and had money troubles. What would you do in that case -- vote for Edwards, or stick to your guy?

      Call me any ugly name you choose --
      The steel of freedom does not stain.
      -- Langston Hughes

      by TheCrank on Sun Jan 06, 2008 at 05:45:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  In this case I would vote Edwards (0+ / 0-)

        I would vote for the best of the viable candidates.  
        If the candidate was already decided (like it will be when we reach PA in April), I would vote my heart.

        I am an Obama supporter.

        John McCain's Something for Everyone Plan: Military draft for youth, SS benefit cuts for elderly, Middle Class destruction, stock market plunge for wealthy.

        by IhateBush on Sun Jan 06, 2008 at 05:53:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Tips for my Grandfather and Mom (8+ / 0-)

    My grandfather, who worked for FDR, often made the point that the sole purpose of a party, in the end, was to elect candidates. You solidified after your own internal squabbles, no matter what you thought of the candidate in question. So I'll do that. But my mom also often expressed the idea that the primary was your chance to shape the direction of the party, by trying to match your beliefs to a candidate's who mirrored your own. (Frankly, in that case I'd've ended up voting for Kucinich if it was just about policy on paper alone, but I used to live in Cleveland so that's just not ever going to happen.)

    Call me any ugly name you choose --
    The steel of freedom does not stain.
    -- Langston Hughes

    by TheCrank on Sun Jan 06, 2008 at 05:44:46 PM PDT

  •  I would answer that it depends on how strong your (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    lothar779

    preference of Obama over Clinton is. And I would hold out voting until after SC.

    Better beans and bacon in peace than cakes and ale in fear... Aesop

    by mr crabby on Sun Jan 06, 2008 at 05:52:33 PM PDT

  •  Our primary is Feb 5, also (5+ / 0-)

    I'm voting for Edwards. If we don't vote for the person we want in a primary, then the big money interests control everything. A general election vote is one where I'll vote party loyalty, but prior to that it's personal loyalty.

    •  I struggle with this (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      grayslady

      I hate the idea of money and resources being a self-fulfilling prophecy. I like to think money isn't the tail that wags the dog in politics, or at least isn't always. I also have fantasies of a brokered convention ending in an Edwards-Obama ticket (in that order). I feel naive to be seriously considering either proposition, though, to the point of wondering if I'm rationalizing...

      Call me any ugly name you choose --
      The steel of freedom does not stain.
      -- Langston Hughes

      by TheCrank on Sun Jan 06, 2008 at 05:57:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Hey, this is politics (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Ckntfld, Pam from Calif

        I've been around for many decades, and I can't tell you how often I've seen politicians crash and burn who were supposed to be untouchable. It isn't over until its' over.

      •  As a California voter, I'm hedging my bets in 2 (4+ / 0-)

        ways. Firstly, since money is important, I sent John another contribution. Pretty sure he'll be on the ballot Feb. 5.

        Secondly, next weekend, I'm planning a little trip to Reno to canvass/phone bank or whatever. (Hey, any Reno kossacks know if there's a local edwards office?)

        There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't. -8.25, -6.21

        by Jacques on Sun Jan 06, 2008 at 06:27:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I'm an Edwards supporter who intends to vote for (6+ / 0-)

    Edwards.  I'll be leaving Saturday for Nevada, and when I get back here I'll start working for him here in the North Bay.  I knew it would be a fight, and don't intend to quit until I win or am beaten, surely not just cause it is tough, and the outcome uncertain.

    George Will is for Obama and thats enough reason for me to continue to fight for someone else.

    If John dropped out, I'd switch to HRC probably, at least her enemies are mine too, the right will never make peace with her.

    "I said, 'Wait a minute, Chester, you know I'm a peaceful man.'" Robbie Robertson

    by NearlyNormal on Sun Jan 06, 2008 at 05:56:20 PM PDT

  •  I just wish (0+ / 0-)

    we voted on the 5th. And no matter I vote my choice period.

    I've been voting since the 80 election and I vote for people not against them.

  •  I was going to vote for (4+ / 0-)

    Kucinich but after he said to support Obama I've pretty much decided to vote for Edwards.

    I never vote on electability. Given the shitty job the winners have done, I'm actually proud to say I've never voted for the winner.

    •  Kucinich is a sore spot for me (0+ / 0-)

      I really, truly like Kucinich's platform more than anybody else's. But I know him from many years ago, and am very wary of him personally, to the point where I'd have serious reservations about his ability to act as President (he and Mike Gravel are the only dems I feel this way about).

      There's two ways of looking at this. Either familiarity breeds contempt, in a way, or maybe it's worthwhile to think about how each one of us might vote if we truly knew the candidate personally. I'm actually not real fond, for the most part, of the type of person who is drawn to seek elective office, by personality type.

      I have oft-wondered about whether my interest in Obama isn't just another instance of flavor-of-the-month. We know HRC so well, so we think. I think I know Edwards from the last four years. But what do I really know about them? Kucinich is the only one of them I've ever met or had a detailed conversation with. (And, come to think of it, Mike Dukakis was a family friend and I still ended up voting for Jesse Jackson in the primary, quite pointlessly, when I was living in Massachussetts.)

      Call me any ugly name you choose --
      The steel of freedom does not stain.
      -- Langston Hughes

      by TheCrank on Sun Jan 06, 2008 at 06:08:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I've met Edwards (0+ / 0-)

        and he is the real thing (in my humble opinion, Obama is the fake thing, and Hillary is the fatal narcissm of the Clintons thing).
        He radiates.
        He cares.
        He fights.

        Don't we want that??
        And of course the money will turn up if he's the candidate--Kerry had oodles of money and it couldn't make him likeable.  John and Elizabeth are totally likeable and the most likely to win over a Republican candidate.

        Repubs are just hoping we're stupid enough to "pick" Obama and that's when it will get ugly.

  •  Also a CA voter (4+ / 0-)

    I'll continue to support Edwards, not because I expect him to win, but because I want to keep the pressure on Obama as long as possible. Barring any gross mistakes between now and February, Obama will take the nomination. And I'm definately excited about the prospects of an Obama national campaign, and even more about an Obama administration.

    However, he does have a number of rough spots. "Hope" is all good and fine, but I'd like to see a lot more "Justice For All" coming out of his mouth, especially in regards to the Bush administration. Edwards has been the only one to really take that stance and stick with it.

    Forcing the Democratic nominee to adopt anti-corporate positions and rhetoric would, I think, embody the entire purpose of the Edwards campaign.

    For now, Edwards voters should stick to their guns: If Obama gets antsy about Clinton's numbers, he'll start adopting Edward's positions. If he doesn't need Edward's numbers to take the nomination, then you can sleep easy at night knowing you voted for your first choice.

    If Obama needs my help, he knows where to find me.

    by George Hier on Sun Jan 06, 2008 at 06:00:35 PM PDT

    •  Agree wholeheartedly (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      grayslady, sd4david

      As a California voter, I am voting for Edwards in the primary for many of the reasons you expressed. I always vote for my first choice in the primaries and fall in line for general election. I might add, this year it will be much easier and far more pleasant to cast my Democratic vote.

      "The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer." -Henry Kissinger

      by Ckntfld on Sun Jan 06, 2008 at 06:49:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm in Washington State (0+ / 0-)

    John Edwards says he's in this to the end, so, I'm with him.  I will always vote for my personal choice.  What is a vote worth if it's no your own choice?  If John doesn't win, it will be Obama and I'm happy to say that I will vote my choice in the general, because while John is my first choice, Obama is my second.  Really.  If they really believe in Change, then Edwards and Obama will team up in the end as President and Vice President.  I know that people say they need a compliment.  I disagree, they need to double team it against the republicans and the money interests.

    Bless those who curse you. Pray for those that persecute you. Do not be overcome by evil; rather, overcome evil with good.

    by AntonBursch on Sun Jan 06, 2008 at 06:03:50 PM PDT

  •  I will vote for Edwards (4+ / 0-)

    I will not vote for Obama since I strongly believe that it will be a vote for pies in the collective  Democratic faces later when his promise of being a "uniter" flops.  You should only make promises on the issues, if any, not on the means, especially if the means are even harder to achieve than the ultimate purposes.

  •  See my signature. (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    grayslady, sd4david

    I'm a 21 year old multiracial college boy from inner city St. Louis who voted for John Edwards. There's nothing you can say to me now.

    by American Phoenix on Sun Jan 06, 2008 at 06:19:55 PM PDT

  •  John Edwards for President (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    grayslady

    I will vote for him in Feb, even if I have to write his name.

    Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official... ~Theodore Roosevelt

    by Pam from Calif on Sun Jan 06, 2008 at 06:31:56 PM PDT

  •  As a Californian who kept (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    tmo, grayslady, sd4david, Ckntfld

    her promise to vote for Dean in '04 even after Kerry had it sewn up, I will vote for John Edwards because he most closely articulates my ideas and ideals. Should he drop out before the 5th I will still vote for him. I want it to be known that there are people out here who support plans and programs he has outlined.

    That said, I will vote for the Democratic nominee no matter who wins it. I simply cannot live through another 8 years of Republican misrule.

    •  We need a new poll on who Dean supporters (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Ckntfld

      want this time around.
      I loved Dean in 2004.
      Edwards is the closest serios candidate this time around.
      SHOW YOUR EDWARDS SUPPORt with t-shirts, bumper stickers, yard signs!
      San Diego Edwards supporter here!

      MC=W^3: McCain=W's 3rd term

      by sd4david on Sun Jan 06, 2008 at 08:06:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  California Voter for Edwards (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    grayslady, sd4david, Ckntfld

    I intend to vote for John Edwards because his is the only candidacy with solid thought out plans of action.  The fact that he can be passionate (angry?) about our failures as a country make me all the more determined.  We do not know who the Democratic candidate will be and  encouraging Edwards' ongoing candidacy is in the best interest of the Democratic Party in that another view is heard and that his candidacy forces other contenders to flesh out their stands.  Moreover, there is always the possibility that no candidate will obtain the necessary delegates to win the nomination, and there could be a brokered convention (Al Gore anyone?).  There are no Democratic candidates that I wouldn't consider voting for in the general election, but at this point in time I do have a preferred candidate, and I intend to vote for him.

Permalink | 24 comments