Daily Kos

Mistakes of the Clinton campaign

Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:21:51 AM PDT

As a formerly elected member of the school board and long time member of DailyKos, I am fully qualified to analyze and critique the incredible (but ultimately fixable) blunders of the Clinton campaign. (/snark)

So, Hillary, pay attention because I will only give this advice once (a day).  

The NUMERO UNO mistake that Clinton made in this primary season was this:
She completely ignored her internet director's insight into the nexus between internet- traditional press and politician.   She made no use of the Daou triangle.  

I think this quote from Peter is illustrative if you just replace "establishment forces" for Bush Administration:

This, then, is the reality: progressive bloggers and online activists - positioned on the front lines of a cold civil war - face a thankless and daunting task: battle the Bush administration and its legions of online and offline apologists, battle the so-called liberal media and its tireless weaving of pro-GOP narratives, battle the ineffectual Democratic leadership, and battle the demoralization and frustration that comes with a long, steep uphill struggle.

This mistake happened early when Hillary selected Mark Penn as her PR consultant.  Now, I think Penn is a pretty smart guy.  He got a lot of mileage early on using her built in assets.  But natural selection says that an organism that fails to adapt to its environment will not survive.  Mark Penn would tend to have a conflict of interest wher Peter Dauo is concerned.  Because the internet is a rough and tumble place and it's difficult to control.  But that's also the beauty of it.  We've seen how a candidate who is able to channel the left blogosphere is able to start a movement and get loyal grassroots support.  Edwards was able to do this here and elsewhere in the sphere.  The problem for Edwards is that low info voters do not use the internet.  They still rely on TV.  But in a way, this just illustrates how perceptive Daou is.  He knows that there's a synergistic effect when the messanger, the internet and the media are working together.  

But in this respect, Hillary was almost totally absent from the blogosphere.  Imagine how much good it would have done her if she had engaged with us sooner and talked to us about her thought process behind her IWR vote or Kyl-Lieberman.  I think she could have persuaded a lot of people that she isn't a hawk.  She could have used us as collaborators. But instead, her campaign acted like they feared to get too close in case we burned her.  That's why her straw poll numbers never got so high here.  She had an opportunity to appeal to us after YK07 and we would have been better able to provide a buffer to the media attacks but the campaign acted like it didn't need us.  

Mistake #2- She was micromanaged.  
Again, I have to dump a lot of this on Penn.  I think I laid it out pretty accurately in one of my diaries what The Givens of this campaign yearwere going to be and the biggest one of them all is: The media is not our friend.  There are a couple of reasons for this.  Some of it has to do with corporate ownership, some of it has to do with their inflated sense of themselves and their ability to create news.  Some of it has to do with their desire for a horse race.  

Given that, there was no way that a carefully scripted campaign was ever going to work.  The media is going to invent things to get all pissy about.  I'm not saying don't use them but never let the media dictate what your message is and how you are going to run a campaign.  You simply have to shut your ears.  They are full of concern trolls and nasty misogynists.  

So, Hillary kept a protective shell around her and people found her unapproachable.  That's a shame.  She should have whipped out that headband and just been herself.  We want to see the daring, progressive side of Hillary.  Learn how to snark.  I saw traces of this in NH.  Keep it up. Humor is a great tool.  That is what the netroots want.  It would have helped her transcend generations.  

Mistake #3- She should have played the gender card.  
Yep.  The media said she shouldn't but I've already said why you should never let the media dictate the terms under which you will run your campaign.  

That is not to say that she should have said, "Vote for me because I'm a woman".  It would have been better to say, "I have all of the qualifications that these men up here have and more.  AND I'm a woman.  Creatures like me don't come along very often so if you ever wanted to see what it's like to have a woman run the country, vote for me."

So what if Tweety gives her Hell about it and screams "Gender Card!"  Scheduls some time on Hardball and take him on.  Hillary could run circles around Tweety.  He's just an middle aged white guy with a generational worldview.  

And when the general election comes around, mobilizing womwn to vote for you could have been very powerful because it's not easy to suppress half the population like it is to suppress African-Americans.  Someone might notice.  

Mistake #4- No inspirational sound bites
Jeez Louise.  This was the easiet one to fix.  I saw Hillary's campaign appearances on C-Span and as much as I love her, they were rambling affairs with no narrative arc.  I can write some inspirational rhetoric.  Here's a couple I thought of yesterday:  

* A Democrat in the White House is change. The current crew is nothing like a status quo. They are radicals. Competence and good government in the White House isn’t the status quo. It’s just a damn good idea.

* Yes, I’m down now. The whole country is down now. Our reputation has been destroyed. I know what that’s like. But we can’t just hope things will get better. We have to pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off and start over again.

* Anyone can talk the talk. We’ve had cocky George Bush in the White House for 8 years. What do they say about him in Texas? All hat and no cattle? Do we want to put another inexperienced, charismatic figure in the White House or do we want to say, "Thanks, George, but you’ve done enough, I’ll take it from here."

* It’s hard to tell the family that is losing their house or losing a job or losing their health insurance to just hope. It’s hard to tell our states that are deep in debt and cutting back on services to use words to make it happen. It’s hard to tell families whose sons and daughters are in a war zone to hold on while we learn on the job. I am not in the business of ecstasy and fairy tales and mind over matter. I am here to lead us back to living in the real world, where we regain our self-respect, dignity and entrepreneurial spirit. I am rehab.

It looks like Democrats are just like regular human beings after all.  They won't listen to a thing you say unless they are moved by it.  That's why the choked up reason for running incident was so effective.  People need to feel a connection with the deliverer.  (I especially like the rehab one because that's what it feels like the country needs.)

So, there you have it.  There's lots more, I'm sure but I'll let my 145,000 kossacks give more advice.  (Er, except the Edwards and Obama hooligans.  We know where you're coming from so please sit on your hands and let others have a crack at it)

Tags: Hillary Clinton, mistakes, unsolicited advice (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 95 comments

  •  Tip Jar (21+ / 0-)

    Or just send cash.  Euros only please.  

    -3.63, -4.46 "Choose something like a star to stay your mind on- and be staid"

    by goldberry on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:22:20 AM PDT

    •  I f I ware her I'd have banged on about (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Jim J, al Fubar, goldberry

      feminism.  

      I am currently talking my wife off the ledge though, she's a huge Clinton fan.

      "It's a race to decide who the British goverment will follow blindly for the next 4 years" Kennedy/Kerry '08

      by Salo on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:26:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Tell her not to jump yet (5+ / 0-)

        Feb 5 is a month away and we can still turn this around.  

        -3.63, -4.46 "Choose something like a star to stay your mind on- and be staid"

        by goldberry on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:28:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I told her Cal, NY Tex and FLa are still in play. (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Julia Grey, goldberry

          "It's a race to decide who the British goverment will follow blindly for the next 4 years" Kennedy/Kerry '08

          by Salo on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:30:19 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Very insightful and accurate (4+ / 0-)

          I know a few things...and this problem with the internet was huge.  It is unbelievable that her website did not have a networking capacity nor did she have a presence on the networking sites of Facebook, let alone anyone to coordinate them.  And unfortunately, Mark Penn must have sucked all the air out. Nor did she have enough college students.  You are on the mark about proclaiming her feminism.  She should have been recruiting men and women for the new progressive cause of a female President...on campus.  

          It's funny that most people outside her campaign imagined she had the best campaign infrastructure and brain power going...disciplined..smart...anticipatory...But it suffered obviously from being too insulated.  Hard to understand really.  Given all her experience with the right wing, she should have anticipated something ominous and not planned on inevitability.  She should have engaged instead of appearing so above it all.

          I also think she should have started speaking out in the Senate just prior to the primaries or during...and threatening filibusters....demonstrating she was a fighter. Taking the Republicans on publicly.  Caution can be dangerous.  And she was too cautious.  She needed to project a fighting image a few times for effect. She did do that in support of MoveOn.org and DAilyKos.com but it was not enough.  She needed to do it on legislation.  Something flamboyant, like Republicans are famous for. She at least needed to accomplish the feat of showing Rethugs as obstructionists. It would have been a good narrative.  I don't understand why she didn't at least try it once.

          I hope she can rescue this...but Democrats aren't known for their loyalty...as we can see...they don't have a winning record.  Think about it...progressives tried to derail Al Gore with Bill Bradley.  And they put up a fight.  Imagine if the internet was in full swing then?  Probably they would have succeeded with disastrous results.  They make the same arguments this time too.  Same players.  And to top it off, Bill Bradley supports Obama.  Very interesting. Not smart.  When Peggy Noonan is supporting Obama in print, along with Brooks and Broder, something is up. And the Republicans almost sound giddy about the idea.

          •  But Obama didn't do this either (0+ / 0-)

            So he hasn't demonstrated leadership either.  But she should have taken the risk.  Polls showed people were angry with Congress for not taking Bush on.  However, it would have been far easier for Obama to do it..he was a man.  I'm sure she was concerned because she was the first woman running..and perhaps the media would have attacked or criticized her as angry...you know..the same old...same old...Look what happened to Chris Dodd.  Reid didn't back him up or give him the same courtesies as Rethugs who put holds on legislation.

            But she still should have taken a risk on one piece of legislation...I don't know if that was possible...but she was trying to figure out a run for the general at the same time as the primary.  Lots of reasons..and hindsight is 20/20.  She played it too safe...same with debate performances.  But the last one was sensational.  I think she should have started off that way and stayed that way.  But she did get there...but she's now running at a disadvantage.  

          •  But she is changing that now (0+ / 0-)

            She's on facebook...and other changes are in the works I believe.

          •  Totally agree (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            goldberry

            Obama hasn't been setting the Senate on fire -- if anything, he's been more cautious on various Senate votes than she's been.  Hillary could have gotten major play there over the last few months.

            The Clinton I've met is warm, funny, self-deprecating, intense without being cold, and just off the charts smart. The first time I listened to her speak to a small group, I literally walked away dazzled.

            Most of that gets lost on television. That's something she should have been able to fix.  Now I'm afraid it may be too late.  Look at how everyone got hysterical over her "tears" -- the same way they got hysterical over the Dean Scream. She's been raked over the coals for being "cold," and now she's being raked over the coals for showing human emotion -- not about how tough she has it, but about how important this election is.

            I'm not on the ledge yet. But I'm worried.

            "Mom, did you hurt yourself, or are you yelling at the TV again?

            by litigatormom on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 01:24:54 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Oh, you are sooo right (0+ / 0-)

            Fighting against telecomm immunity was a missed opportunity.  Well, now's her chance.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained.  

            -3.63, -4.46 "Choose something like a star to stay your mind on- and be staid"

            by goldberry on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 01:24:56 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Mistakes yes. (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Jim J, Julia Grey

      But the epitaph needs to wait til Feb 5.  Not sure what I think her mistakes were.  I think one is that she didn't appeal to youth voters  as well as she could have.  She has to bring some hope of her own somehow.

      The ...Bushies... don't make policies to deal with problems. ...It's all about how can we spin what's happening out there to do what we want to do. Krugman

      by mikepridmore on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:28:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Oh, I still think she can win it (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        grayslady

        Because after the Obama orgasm is over, people are going to take a good look at him in the harsh morning light and some of them may not like what they see.

        -3.63, -4.46 "Choose something like a star to stay your mind on- and be staid"

        by goldberry on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:44:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Obama is human (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          goldberry

          He can make mistakes. He's a very likable character, and can sometimes be an inspiring speaker. I don't think people will wake up and not like what they see. But I think they may wake up and see that his sizzle hasn't yet caught up to his dazzle.

          "Mom, did you hurt yourself, or are you yelling at the TV again?

          by litigatormom on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 01:27:56 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  She can still win (0+ / 0-)

      but it's going to have to be by getting very ugly.

      That's the reality of poltical campaigns in arrears on momentum.

      And she even has the ability to take it down to a question of super delegates.

      Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities.

      - Albert Einstein

      by Walt starr on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:29:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ugly is not the way to go (0+ / 0-)

        She's damaged herself by going negative.

        She should stay focused on herself.  Why she's got the right mix of experience, intelligence, focus, discipline and strength to confront the steaming pile of shit being left to us by the Bushies, understand it, figure out how to fix it, and do it. It's not that Obama couldn't possibly do this.  Portraying him as unqualified hasn't helped her, and whoever gave her the "false hope" meme ought to be shot.

        She understands the system.  That's a plus, not a negative. Using that understanding to get the system to work again, to pare away the parts of it that need paring -- that's change.  She can work it better than anyone.

        And show a little more of the passion that the pundits have been decrying as a sign of desperation.  

        "Mom, did you hurt yourself, or are you yelling at the TV again?

        by litigatormom on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 01:40:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Yes, please only comment if you support HC. (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    MBNYC

    Thanks for playing, everyone.

    Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar. Edward R. Murrow

    by Pager on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:26:20 AM PDT

  •  The big mistake, and it was a big one: (9+ / 0-)

    She never articulated a larger rationale for her candidacy.  Instead she offered a list of her qualities and accomplishments with a list of policy proposals.

    There was never a broad theme to capture people's imaginations.  As a movement, it was always about her instead of something larger than her.

    "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

    by Geekesque on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:26:22 AM PDT

    •  This was what I was going to say (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Do Tell, Yoshi En Son

      Don't run as a politician, with all your accomplishments, run as a leader. People expect a Senator or Representative to get legislation passed. They expect their President to have a vision.

    •  I think her largest blunder was her Iraq war vote (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      mightymouse, opedn

      and her ever changing stance on the war since, followed by her embracing lobbyists and guys like Murdoch.  If made her appear no different than any number of Republicans.

      Her war vote backfired on her as it tied her forever with Bush's failed war, unlike some other Democrats who did not vote the war.  

      If she had come out as a real anti-war candidate, she might have had a chance.

      However, she appeared to be offering us more war, more corporatism, and her "experience".

      I would have been delighted to have voted for the 1st woman president, but not her.

      She is losing the fight because America wants real change, not more war, not more corporations, not more of the same.

      The anvil around her neck is inscribed "Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton".

      She is not the change we are looking for.  I would rather have needles in my eyes than more Clinton years.  

      "I don't belong to any organized party, I'm a Democrat." Will Rogers

      by Do Tell on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:35:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's false because Obama voted to fund it (0+ / 0-)

        after he said in the same speech opposing the war, he  would never fund it. He promised that to Illinois voters. And he also stated that had he been in the Senate, he might have voted the same way.  So continuing to fund it doesn't get a bigger brownie point.  It's an excuse if you need one. Rather, it exposes him as a hypocrite.  And the people who cite that as their reason, are disingenuous as well.

        But don't try to sound politically correct and use that to mask the fact you don't like Hillary.  Or you just like Obama. Your gut.  After all, a lot of people voted for Bush that way too. Bush certainly did not appear radical when he ran for President in 2000.

        •  I know this might come as a shock, but this (0+ / 0-)

          comment has nothing to do whatever with Obama.  It has nothing to do with Obama voting to fund the war, vote for the war, or promises to Illinois voters.  

          This was a comment regarding what I thought that Hillary did wrong.  Not a word about Obama.  Perhaps you need to sharpen your reading skills so that you can tell the difference.

          I never said that I like Obama, in fact, I have always been an Edwards supporter.

          I don't need an excuse to dislike Hillary, her candidacy has imploded due to factors that she alone controlled.  

          She is going to lose big today, and she has run out of cash.  

          I don't need a jerk like you to tell me about being PC, and my post certainly did not mask the fact that I do not like Hillary.  

          Once more, your replies are delusional at best and show a complete lack of reading comprehension and analysis at worst.

          Nothing new here.  

          "I don't belong to any organized party, I'm a Democrat." Will Rogers

          by Do Tell on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 01:31:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Let's not forget that Edwards didn't (0+ / 0-)

        just vote for the Iraq war resolution -- he was one of its co-sponsors.  His "apology" always struck me as unauthentic, because he never addressed that part of his role.

        I don't think Clinton needed to apologize for her vote so much as she needed to explain what she learned from Bush's misuse of the authority Congress gave him, and how she would (or would not) ask for and use such authority if she were president.

        "Mom, did you hurt yourself, or are you yelling at the TV again?

        by litigatormom on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 01:44:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  That's her mistake, I think. (4+ / 0-)

      She's running a traditional Democratic campaign, and her opponent is running a campaign with a strong and clear narrative.    She's got a list of issues with no clear through-line, and her speeches reflect that; he's got a strong, central theme and talks about the issues in light of that theme.

      Just think about how many different themes and slogans her campaign has gone through... we were talking about this last night and we came up with at least eight.  At the same time, Barack Obama's narrative has been constant even if the more day-to-day strategy has shifted a few times - it's all about hope, change, and unifying America (a theme Hillary has taken up now that she's been beaten by it in one state).

      It's waaaaaay too early to start delivering her political eulogy, though - we're still in the first inning of the game here.  She's still got a lot of resources, a lot of backing, and machine support.  Let's not exaggerate rumors of her political death.

      Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.

      by mistersite on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:36:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think it comes off being about her... (0+ / 0-)

      ...because Clinton is, in a sense, a liberal George HW Bush (the old one).  She doesn't have "the vision thing."  Neither do I, for that matter.  She identifies problems and proposes solutions.  In that regard she's also a Bill Clinton, and even a liberal Mitt Romney.  I don't think there's any shame in this (there had better not be, because that's how I am too!), but it only works electorally if you explain it to people. (Romney, in fact, was doing well until he started claiming, falsely, to have a wingnut vision.)  If you don't, then people think you lack a vision because you're an idiot, or because your candidacy is all about you.  

      In the end an in-your-face "policies-trump-vision" approach might lose out to a uniquely attractive and well-expressed vision of the Obama sort, but Clinton's made it even harder for herself by not going there. And now that Sen. Vision Thing is in the ascendancy, if Clinton pushes the policy side it's seen as a strategic adjustment rather than what she's always been.  

      The fact that life can be unfair to politicians will always cause me less troubled sleep than life's unfairness to the genuinely oppressed...but it's still kind of unfair :)

      -5.38/-3.74 I've suffered for my country. Now it's your turn! --John McCain with apologies to Monty Python's "Protest Song"

      by Rich in PA on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:39:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, she assumed too much (0+ / 0-)

      She assumed her record of accomplishments was enough and her husband's legacy said a lot.  But you are correct...her strategy did not frame her big themes well.  And it is known that a campaign must always sell optimism.  Perhaps she was just too aware of the mess we are in and didn't want to give false hope. But she did need a more compelling narrative.  However, given her husband is Bill Clinton, that wouldn't have been an easy sell either.  She would always be tied to him so she thought why run away from it.  Because we know the  press would have then accused her of running away from her husband's record.  They were always going to be biased against her...Maybe you have an idea of how she should have framed it?  Because the truth is, her record is very progressive...and she got stuff through Congress where John Edwards did not.

  •  Her only mistake was campaigning in Iowa (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Jim J, litigatormom, goldberry, Salo, lily15

    that is what is going to cost her the election.  She should have simply stated that "she will not campaign in a state that utilizes a system that disenfranchises members of our active military, the disabled/house bound, and those working Americans who do not have 9-5 jobs".  She would then probably been insulated from any bounce that either Obama or Edwards could have gotten and would have still been handily winning NH.  I like Obama as a candidate, but am very weary that he has not been vetted and will be vulnerable to R slime attacks.

  •  You cannot take this stuff out of context (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Do Tell, lily15

    The Republican-friendly media, as we already knew, hates Hillary with a fierce, long-kindled passion.

    The blogosphere, I believe, would have hated Hillary regardless of any solicitation from her camp. Think about the diarists here and their routinely recced hit diaries on Hillary. What kind of comments do you think they would have posted if HRC had come onto this site? Half would have to be hidden.

    So after Bush clearly became irrelevant to the next election, guess who all that hate was transferred to in the absence of a clear GOP successor? Yup.

    And though no one here thinks this is legitimate to point out, it's clearly the case that no one wants to be the first one to openly attack an African American candidate or question his bona fides, as they would any other candidate.

    •  I have seen how personal appearances ... (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Jim J, al Fubar, dragoneyes

      have tamed the passions of the blogosphere. We get very respectful and ask good questions.  It would have done her a lot of good for her to have established that kind of relationship with us early.  Because once you know a person, it's much harder to fling poo at them.  
      That being said, I would go to FDL instead of DKos for that kind of interaction now.  This place is full of some very disrespectful people right now.  

      -3.63, -4.46 "Choose something like a star to stay your mind on- and be staid"

      by goldberry on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:31:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I agree (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      goldberry

      Th efirst moves would have included making sure Tweety and russert were removed from the airwaves. And making Huffington a laughing stock.

      "It's a race to decide who the British goverment will follow blindly for the next 4 years" Kennedy/Kerry '08

      by Salo on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:31:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It seemed to me, though... (0+ / 0-)

      ..that the mainstream media gave Hillary a pass for much of the past year (until recently, obviously).  They helped sell the "inevitability" theme, strongly implying that she was unstoppable.

      So much so that it seemed like a conspiracy to ensure that she got the nomination, whereupon they would start attacking her without mercy.

      In any event, I don't think the media was her problem.  But they gaveth, and then, when she faltered, they tooketh away.

      •  good point (0+ / 0-)

        Her last shining moment was the big health care rollout. Glowing reviews, massive free media.

        And then the shitstorm.

        They might turn on Obama as well, but only after an "acceptable" GOP nominee is chosen.

      •  Even when they were talking about her (0+ / 0-)

        "inevitability," though, it was always with a subtext of "won't anyone rescue us?"

        They were hoping someone would come along and knock her off. Especially Tweety.

        "Mom, did you hurt yourself, or are you yelling at the TV again?

        by litigatormom on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 01:46:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Fascinating how you talk about the (7+ / 0-)

    Edwards and Obama hooligans, and then ask them to sit on your hands let others have a crack at it.

    And people wonder why the HRC supporters are targets of "unprovoked" attacks.

    Funny.

    •  can't help yourself (0+ / 0-)

      can you?

      The ...Bushies... don't make policies to deal with problems. ...It's all about how can we spin what's happening out there to do what we want to do. Krugman

      by mikepridmore on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:31:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  re (0+ / 0-)

      IOKIYAAHRCSupporter!

      "Steve Holt is now iSteve Holt 3G." - Steve Holt

      by cookiesandmilk on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:31:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hey, I have no control over what they do (0+ / 0-)

      It's just that they don't add much to the discussion except pointless vitriol.  We know what they think.  
      But if they want to comment, I have no way to stop them.  

      -3.63, -4.46 "Choose something like a star to stay your mind on- and be staid"

      by goldberry on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:32:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  We're exaggerating the level of negativity (3+ / 0-)

      I think some people on Daily Kos got a little harsh and somewhat annoying, but, in general, outside of the hidden comments, I think people here were mostly civil. I got really, really tired of a lot of the Edwards recommended diaries, and I disagree with the tone of his supporters' views on trade, but I hardly ever felt any urge to troll rate anyone.

      I saw an ABC clip showing Bill Clinton complaining about Obama's criticisms of his wife, and I know we all gasped at the HRC effort to accuse Obama of expressing the ambition to be president when he was in kindergarten. But, if you got the candidates themselves together before the campaign, and each of them voluntarily drew up a list of attacks it was OK for their opponents' to make, most of what happened during the campaign would be on the list.

      Obama, for example, probably knew when he was 18 that, if he ever got into politics, the madrasa issue would come up, and HRC knew her war authorization vote would be an issue.

    •  Obama Hooligans (0+ / 0-)

      One of the most disgusting things I've read recently is a thread on TPM over the weekend.  The original topic was the suggestion that Clinton would need to go negative to turn things around.  But it turned into a recitation by Obama supporters of everything either Clinton has been accused of over the last 20 years, including some I hadn't heard before.  I didn't realize just how effective the Republicans were at convincing Democrats that Hillary Clinton was the daughter of the devil.

  •  Should have skipped Iowa, early on (0+ / 0-)

    we could already see it would be a bad state for her, and when you have the air of a winner, losing first, is not good, had she skipped, there would have been no expectation for her to win.
    Well, FEB 5th is still upon us GoldB!  If there is one person who will still be able to turn this around, it's HILLARY!!! If not, she'll continue to be a good senator, and I'll be happy to vote for B.O.

    •  reducing her spendin gthere by half (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      rigso

      and throwing suport to edwards in a measured way would have been good strategy.

      She could have claimed she was thinking long term and it would have confronted Obama and Edwards with their own problems.

      "It's a race to decide who the British goverment will follow blindly for the next 4 years" Kennedy/Kerry '08

      by Salo on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:33:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Her "it's personal" moment (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    goldberry, gloryous1

    To me, that was the best moment of her campaign.  For once, she seemed human and real.  The whole tone and timbre of her voice was different, unlike when she's "performing" on the campaign trail and sounds mechanical and programmed.  She spoke softly and it didn't feel like she was reciting a script (well, except for the "I'll know what to do on Day One" line).  They should have figured out a way to bring out that Hillary, instead of the machine-Hillary they thought was "flawless."  I actually found her appealing watching that clip, which is a first for me.

    -7.75, -7.64 www.politicalcompass.org "When the intellectual history of this era is finally written, it will scarcely be believable." -- Noam Chomsky

    by scorponic on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:32:29 AM PDT

  •  Her palpable sense of entitlement (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Lepanto, Vagabond57, Do Tell, brentmack

    and the 'inevitability meme' - but more than this, having no 'Plan B' when she didn't coast to victory was her biggest mistake.

    •  Her use of surrogates (which was so transparent) (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      brentmack

      also added to her downside momentum.

      Did anyone really believe those people were so far off the reservation without her campaign's blessing?

      "I don't belong to any organized party, I'm a Democrat." Will Rogers

      by Do Tell on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:37:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Who pushed that meme? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      lily15

      I don't know where it originated but the media really pushed it hard.  Because who doesn't want to have a choice?  t made us irrationally angry at Clinton.  But it was Tweety and the gang who really milked it for all it was worth because they knew it was turning us off to Clinton.  
      The person I see who seems to have the genuine sense of entitlement was Edwards.  He ran his campaign as if he was the chosen successor and didn't make any contingency plans.  And every once in a while he whines about no media coverage.  Edwards thought he was the inevitable choice.  Go back and think about how he's run things and see if you don't agree.    

      -3.63, -4.46 "Choose something like a star to stay your mind on- and be staid"

      by goldberry on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:38:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I would say the campaign did. (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Vagabond57

        For obvious reasons, the media wants a horse race and divided Democrats, not an inexorable march to the nomination by a Democratic party united around one inevitable leader.

      •  I dislike Edwards with a passion now (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        goldberry

        I didn't before.  But when he outright tried to mislead at that debate and assumed no one would catch it (maybe he knew the media would never follow up on it) he was both surprised and angered when she fired back that he did not pass anything out of the Congress, let alone get it into law.  After that, his attacks were incessant.  But he is a lying jerk.  If you mislead once, you are not trustworthy.

        And Obama was a bald faced liar in that debate as well.
        No one cared though.  Credibility is obviously not important in this election...although it seems like it should be given the last 7  years.

      •  I don't think they said the word... (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        brentmack

        ...but it's pretty clear that was the strategy: to raise an unbelievable amount of money, sign up an unbelievable number of establishment heavy hitters, and scare off all potential opposition.

        Did they expect the media not to notice?

  •  Having lunch with Rupert Murdoch didn't help (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Lepanto, Do Tell, brentmack, opedn

    That about did it for me...how could she have been so stupid if she was wanting the votes of the American people...let alone the votes of Democrats..let alone the votes of progressive Democrats

    •  I don't see that as significant (0+ / 0-)

      It was just a case of keeping your enemies closer.  And as long as he kept within FEC limits, I'd just take the money and run.  
      Besides, she's kept away from Fox so give her credit for that.

      -3.63, -4.46 "Choose something like a star to stay your mind on- and be staid"

      by goldberry on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:39:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Murdoch wasn't supporting her (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      goldberry

      for President...but he was a constituent of New York.  How can you appreciate and like Obama's bipartisan entreaties and then fault Hillary if she does it? Obama was talking about Republicans against choice to be in his cabinet...Republicans who voted for Alito...that's OK but her having lunch with Murdoch is not?  I'd say men who are responsible for putting Alito on the Supreme Court have had far more impact on our laws with far more damaging consequences.  But giving Obama a pass all the time is rather outrageous and underlines either the hidden or open sexism that is everywhere in this race. Maybe you aren't aware of it...but the bias is plainly evident.  And it is not logical.  That is where I don't get it with some of you.  The hypocrisy is everywhere.

  •  "The Future" (4+ / 0-)

    The biggest mistake Hillary & her campaign made was not heeding the warning I've heard President Clinton make many times.

    "Elections are about the future, not the past."

    She trapped herself in an experience argument talking about the past, when people vote based on the future and what you're going to do for them tomorrow.

  •  Am I a hooligan? (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Lepanto, Vagabond57, brentmack

    Or perhaps I have ideas and opinions, most of which you may agree with and some of which you may disagree with?

    I felt your diary was well written and fairly well reasoned.  Personally I feel her big mistakes were

    1.  Mark Penn
    1.  Too much micromanagement + insulation
    1.  Attacking her opponents cheaply and unnecessarily (Did you guys realize this when her campaign pulls out an essay from kindergarten?) when all she had to do was PRAISE them as capable people AND talk about her vision and ideas for America.
    1.  Image, Image, Image  

    When you dismiss people this way, even inadvertently, as hooligans, you rub people the wrong way.  Hillary RUBBED PEOPLE the WRONG WAY when she started these attacks when she "turned up the heat."  

    Had she NOT done this and simply been positive and even complimentary of Obama and Edwards, and with her name recognition and money, she'd probably have won.

    She self destructed on her own.  Us "hooligans" are simply pointing it out I think in a fair and factual manner.

    I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

    by davefromqueens on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:45:21 AM PDT

    •  %^&$&^ (0+ / 0-)

      I don't want to rub you the wrong way but I fear it is unavaoidable.  
      There has been a bait ball frenzy on the blogosphere lately where Obama and Edwards people attack everything that Clinton does.  
      It's coming off as very misogynistic because it seems like she is never allowed to criticize her male opponents.  
      Now, either your candidate can take it, in which case there's no reason to belabor the point or he can't, in which case it looks like a double standard that goes only in one direction.  In any case, it's making some candidates look really bad.  
      So, do whatever the f%* you want but don't expect us to love you for it later.  

      -3.63, -4.46 "Choose something like a star to stay your mind on- and be staid"

      by goldberry on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:54:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  goldberry, you've written a really thoughtful (0+ / 0-)

        diary. Please don't assume that those of us whose first choice is a different candidate are not listening. There's still a long race ahead, and many of us are going to find ourselves needing to get behind a different candidate for the general. Just keep writing those intelligent diaries and intelligent comments. You cannot deal rationally with an irrational person, but there are a lot more rational people still around than you might imagine from some of the comments. Keep selling your candidate and making constructive comments about other candidates.

      •  I would expect that (0+ / 0-)

        we all love each other later because ANY of our top 3 is superior to anything on the Republican side.

        I certainly think you are entitled to highlight your differences.  My point is that many of the things done by the Clinton campaign to me were inexplicable from a strategy point of view.

        Why the kindergarten essay?

        Why not simply say that obama IS experienced and ready to be president but that you feel your candidate is MORE experienced or BETTER experienced and prepared.

        Why the leaflet about the pro choice votes when Planned Parenthood supported this strategy?  Why not simply say that there is no difference among the 3 of us on the issue of a woman's right to choose and that we would all be good on this issue?  (Note - You see how I am being HONEST by pointing out that your candidate AGREES with mine.)

        Her campaign has every right to criticize.  I would assert that these criticisms were out of line, petty, and amateurish and they cost her the race.

        I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

        by davefromqueens on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 01:29:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  also (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        grayslady

        You didn't rub me the wrong way at all.

        I'm sure you and I would agree most of the time.  We have some disagreements here.  I respect your right to express them and as noted in my initial comment, your diary was well written and you argued your position fairly well.

        I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.

        by davefromqueens on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 01:31:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Her entire campaign was run as if there were no (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    brentmack

    other viable Democratic candidates. When Iowa showed that to be disastrously mistaken, there was no backup plan.
    Whither now?

    We're shocked by a naked nipple, but not by naked aggression.

    by Lepanto on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:49:23 AM PDT

  •  The unspoken thing (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    goldberry, brentmack

    is this:  The VRWC smears of her have effected the minds of many Democrats as well as the Republicans against her.  Having as much vitriol and mud thrown as she has had at her has almost turned her into a cultural and sociological negative.  For people who are politically savvy, not so much, but for the average everyday American she's been made into a characiture.

    OH-16: John Boccieri will finally end 36 years of Regula Rule.

    by marcvstraianvs on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 11:49:48 AM PDT

  •  Good analysis/boils down to communications (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    goldberry, brentmack, dragoneyes

    I think the secret here is that HRC is actually the grown up version of a shy, sweet, well-meaning, recovering nerd who has built a shell around herself to protect herself against second grade bullies. (Or something like that. Someone who's actually read an HRC biography might know what the trigger for shell-building really was.)

    Recently, I read a profile in which someone noted that HRC seemed extraordinarily nervous when she handled some of her early courtroom appearances as a lawyer, and I think that was an early sign of the problems she'd have without public speaking.

    She now has great speaking skills for an ordinary human being, and maybe even for a member of Congress, but she is too defensive to instinctively radiate the kind of Clintonian sun god warmth the ideal presidential candidate ought to exude, at least in front of what seems to be a hostile crowd.

    If we'd been collectively radiating warmth at her, maybe she would have loosened up more and let her inner sun god come out, but, because even a lot of us Democrats were beaming hostility toward her, she froze up both in public speaking and in handling the media (including the blogosphere, which is really just another medium).

    And I don't think this has much to do with gender. I think that John Kerry was the most dashing, Captain Kirk-like presidential candidate we'll ever have, in terms of his actual life, but, because of his personality or whatever stuff that scarred him when he was child, he just wasn't great at radiating sun god warmth, or at least not through a television camera.

  •  Her biggest mistake... (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    The Scoutmaster, brentmack, opedn

    Terry McAuliffe.

    The lesson of that history is that you must not despair, that if you are right, and you persist, things will change. -Howard Zinn

    by blueyedace2 on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 12:08:14 PM PDT

  •  Her problems aren't "mistakes" (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Lepanto, Vagabond57, brentmack, Leo in NJ

    This diary seems to be about trying to figure out how to repackage her candidacy.  

    The things that have turned most of us "hooligans" against her aren't due to some miscue on the campaign trail.  The Iraq vote was not a "mistake" she made, it is her policy.  The Kyle-Lieberman Amendment vote was not a "mistake."  She runs on her experience of being involved in Whitehouse for 8 years while her husband was president.  During that time NAFTA was pushed through and deregulation of media ownership rules.  Huge numbers of us dying for the return of Teddy Roosevelt and Huey Long populism.  She cannot run on that platform because that is not what her wing of the Democratic Party is.

    •  You make my point perfectly (0+ / 0-)

      I don't think you would be so negative about her if she had some to us and explained her reasoning behind voting for Kyl-Lieberman.  Or at least you could have had it out with her and felt better about getting off of your chest.  But her lack of interactivity with her audience made her seem inflexible.  It made people feel like she didn't want to hear from her voters.  And that's a powerful message that I don't think any candidate should send.  
      Maybe that was just Mark Penn playing it safe but it worked against her.  

      -3.63, -4.46 "Choose something like a star to stay your mind on- and be staid"

      by goldberry on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 01:19:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm guilty (0+ / 0-)

        Most of us here are passionate about issues and it becomes much more personal than it shold be.  I don't reject Sen Clinton because of anything she does or does not take audience questions. I reject the "centrist" policies her husband represented in the White House and she has represented as a senator.  The working class people in this country have taken a pounding for the last 30 years and the consolidation of power in the hands of the investor class has been accelerating since Sept 11, 2001.  Sen Clinton may be "Better than Bush," but that isn't good enough.  I will support someone who supports tarriffs, increasing corporate regulation and taxes, taxing the investor class, Universal Healthcare, sensible immigration reform, being fair to Israel yet not unconditional support for their government, and an end to the Iraq Occupation.  No candidate has all of those qualities, but some have more than others.

        •  Where was Congress during the 90's? (0+ / 0-)

          You seem to blame the plight of the working class on Clinton.    But Congress was turned over to the Republicans in 1994 and they only relinquished the House last year.  I don't know how old you are but that was not a nice period of time.  Congress was very aggressive with it's stupid Contract with America schtick.  The Republican Congress screwed the little guy.  Clinton just tried to ameliorate the damage.  In some cases it worked; in others it didn't.  But unemployment was at a low, wages increased steadily and we weren't at war.  The little guy had a better chance of getting out of poverty under Clinton than he ever did under Bush.
          Don't forget that.  

          -3.63, -4.46 "Choose something like a star to stay your mind on- and be staid"

          by goldberry on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 03:58:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't "blame" Clinton (0+ / 0-)

            Like I said, it is a political philosophy that I reject that many hold, not just Clinton.  In another age the wing of the Democratic Party the Clintons are on would be Rockefeller Republicans.  I believe we need to get back to the America of Kennedy, but alas, after tonight I feel that it will take some massive shock to the system in order to push more people onto the side of the fence I sit on.  Maybe you are right and Sen Clinton will be a good president.  I seriously doubt it, but good luck.

  •  Too early for this type of diary (0+ / 0-)

    I think the woulda coulda shoulda's should wait till after Feb 5th.

    Who knows, maybe this whole thing is part of some grand diabolical scheme so she can become the underdog and come back roaring, without worrying anymore about the front runner status, and crowning type arguments.

    Imagine the press coverage if Hillary in a few weeks starts to inch back up.......woo hoo!

    Yeah!

    GO HILLARY!

  •  I would say that as part of her triangulating (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    brentmack

    the Left Blogosphere was calculated as something she could safely lose and use as a "Sister Souljah" to provide her with centrist bona fides.

    John McCain loves to suck on sausage with Lindsey Graham.

    by The Dead Man on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 12:27:56 PM PDT

  •  Gender card = Lysistrata card? No peace, no sex! (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    goldberry

    Lysistrata convinced the women of Greece to withhold sex from their husbands to end the Peloponnesian War and secure peace. Of course, it doesn't work as well when the party of war is dominated by a bunch of repressed homosexuals.

  •  Excellent diary GB. Hillary as Human (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    goldberry

    My view, also expressed upthread, is that after having been battered and nearly done in during the 90s, she just locked her real self away and only let us see Politician Hillary.

    Her worst mistake.  Everytime I get a glimpse of Human Hillary my heart flutters and I vow to vote for her.  But then just as quickly that person vanishes and my concerns re-surface.

    I have never questioned her capability or committement, but how can she lead the country if all we are presented with is a wooden figure?  

    I am sad she is tanking and I hope she can pull it out.  As I see it, genuine emotional moments of the kind we saw yesterday are highly in order now.

    Dogs have so many friends because they wag their tails instead of their tongues. -Anonymous

    by gloryous1 on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 01:18:14 PM PDT

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