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It's been a rough week to be an Obama supporter in the deep south.  Earlier in the week, my sister called me in tears after having a contentious discussion with someone she's known for a long time... The very same day, I had a conversation with a man I've spoken to many times over several years... and it was disheartening and sad... And then tonight, I ventured into Wal-Mart here in Alabama wearing my "HOPE MONGER" tee shirt....

First, my sister's experience was with the accountant her company uses.  She's known this woman for years and has had a fairly decent, light relationship with her.  The woman is funny and engaging, but Jen (my sister) has had some uncomfortable moments with her because once in awhile, the woman's racism came out in conversations.  Jen was always bothered by it, but tried to let it slide for the most part. The other day, out of the blue, the woman tells her that she thinks ANYONE who pulled the lever for Obama was an IDIOT.  Jen politely said, "Maybe we shouldn't talk about this cause I'm on the other side of your argument.".  Jen said even after telling this woman that she was pro Obama, the woman launched into a diatribe about Democrats and n******s and how ACORN and homeowners (of a particular color) were responsible for the mess our country is in now and Obama is involved and blah blah blah.. the usual talking points. Jen isn't one for confrontation, she wants peace no matter what.. She said she just felt frozen and got out of the office as soon as she could, got into her car and burst into tears.  When I spoke with her she just said she'd had it with all the negativity and the hatred she was seeing spewing from people that she has had some measure of respect for before now. We both lamented about how hard it was for NYC girls raised by community organizers to live in Birmingham, Alabama.  Her spirit was crushed.  I did my best to cheer her up.

The very same day, the meter man for our power company came by. We always chat about our dogs.. We used to have dachshunds and he did too, so the dog thing was always kind of a common conversation we have.  He's always been a pretty nice guy, we've always conversed pleasantly.  Just as he was about to head back to his truck, he noticed my Obama magnet on the side of my car.  He said, "Ohhh, you're for him?"  Without hesitation and with a big smile I said, "Absolutely!  He's my guy 100%"  So HE begins to tell me that Obama scares him, we don't' know anything about him, the Democrats are responsible for the financial mess we're in, blah blah blah.. same kinds of talking points we're used to hearing.  I asked him if he watched FOX NEWS... he really didn't answer the question, but I tried as nicely as I could to stand my ground, making my points when I could.  I felt myself getting shaky in the knees and I could feel the tears of anger  building up behind my smile... I asked him "What about Palin? She's scares me.".. And his reply was "Noooo Sarah Palin doesn't scare me at all, she's one of us... She just tells you like it is!"  I just sighed deeply and told him to have a pleasant day and was much relieved when he finally left.  But.. I felt a little crushed.  

Soooo... Tonight I needed to go to Wal-Mart.  I try to avoid it as much as I can because I prefer to give my money to the local businesses in town, but I had to go tonight.  I try to wear one of my Obama Tshirts whenever possible because I am just really proud of my candidate. Tonight it was my HOPE MONGER tee ;o) It's funny the looks you get from people when you're in the minority.. Sometimes people look at my shirt and then at my face like I'm crazy.. Some smile, some say "Love that shirt!"  And tonight... a woman actually confronted me about it.

I was behind her in line thru the self check out... and she looked at me and in a tone dripping with disdain, said, "Can I just ask you 'Why'"?  (I knew immediately what she meant), but I asked her, "Why what?"  She made a motion with her hand over her own chest, indicating my shirt... She said "Why? Why all that?" My first reaction was really incredulousness, and I said back, smiling, "Why NOT?!"  I asked her what our other choices were.  And she said.. "Well, not SOCIALISM!"  

I said to her, "Oh, you must watch Fox News because they're the ones who are pushing that storyline.".  I could feel my heart start pounding harder...  She said something about his record, and I know the look on my face was complete disgust (I've GOT to work on that, I never have had a very good poker face), and I said back to her... "Records??  Consider if you will that the Republicans have been in charge of the gov't for the past 12 years.. and LOOK where we are!"  

I'm very passionate about this stuff and I think maybe I scared her a little when I answered her back so sharply and quickly, so she said..
"I don't want to argue with you, I just wanted to know why.".  So I, still smiling said... "Well, the reason for 'all this' (imitating the same movement she made indicating my shirt) is because THIS is a positive movement. I feel excited and joyful and hopeful about this election. I believe in this guy. I'm very happy with my candidate and  I support Obama completely. It's not the dismal, hateful, scary stuff the other side is offering. That's why."   I was smiling, but I think she and a few others around us, knew I was spring loaded and ready LOL... I've GOT to work on that.  I only want to come across as joyful and confident.. Not snippy and bitchy.  I mighta been a little snippy and bitchy in my delivery, but I felt proud of my answers.

So it's been a fairly shitty week in the South as far as dealing with actual people who are buying the McCain/Palin stuff.  But I'm GLAD she asked me about it.  Because I was glad to tell her about it.  Maybe she'll think about the woman she questioned in the Wal-Mart who had good sound reasons for voting for Obama and maybe it will make her look into this Barack Obama guy.  Then again, maybe not.
Either way, it feels good to stand toe to toe with these people and KNOW I'm on the right side of this thing!!

Yikes this is long, thanks for letting me vent. ;o)

UPDATE:  Wow, thanks for the rec list.  But more than anything, thanks for reading and adding such caring, positive thoughts.  You guys help give us in the red states the will to fight on!!  Thanks!!

UPDATE 2:  Oh my goodness!!!  I went to sleep and woke up and this is STILL on the rec list!  Thank you guys!  More importantly, I want you to know that I'm going thru all these NEW comments and want to respond to EVERY ONE of them... You have touched me, made me feel emotional (in a good way) and you've reinforced my resolve to go out and be PROUD of our candidate! Thank you thank you for your words.  I'm reading every one of them! Hugs to ALL of you... those who live in states like I do and understand, and those who live in those glorious BLUE states who give us red staters such hope!  Thanks again!  

Originally posted to SteelMaggie13 on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 10:09 PM PDT.

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    I'm never gonna give up trying.

    "A liberal is a conservative who's been hugged." ;o)

    by SteelMaggie13 on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 10:13:17 PM PDT

  •  Great personal anecdotes. Every bit helps. (11+ / 0-)

    Thanks for your brave efforts.

    Big difference between Reagan and McCain - Reagan waited to get into office before he lost his mind... McCain lost his trying to run for one.

    by amk for obama on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 10:17:01 PM PDT

  •  May I offer a suggestion? (23+ / 0-)

    Try to develop some additional empathy for the ignorant and hateful.  The fact is, they are victims of their own shortcomings.  I know you believe in "the cause" and you know you are right, and are probably feeling battered and a little skittish from all the hostility out there.  So try to hang onto the rational, and substitute the empathetic for the defensive.  

    "I know how you feel, but if you could only see what I see, I know you would feel differently.  I just wish I knew how to share that vision with you more clearly."  

    You know, that sort of thing - pretending like their narrow-mindedness is actually your shortcoming, and disarming them with acknowledgment and validation of their irrational fears.

    It is really hard work, and no human being is always up to it.  But non-confrontational approaches work far better.  Loving your enemy to death is really the only way to make inroads, if there is any way.

    "Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?" -- A. Lincoln c.1870

    by Deighved H Stern MD on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 10:20:22 PM PDT

  •  Sometimes, I think - I'll just leave and let them (15+ / 0-)

    turn America into a real sucky third world country.

    But, then, I think of all the good, decent people in America.  And how much I love america.

    You know, what we should really do is figure out a way to get rid of Fox News and Rush Limbaugh, etc.

    •  Restore the Fairness Doctrine. (7+ / 0-)

      Should be done in the first 100 days of the 111th Congress.

      2008, the Year the Republican Party dissolved into a puddle of goo

      by shpilk on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 10:31:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't support the Fairness Doctrine (10+ / 0-)

        I don't think that the government should force TV and radio stations to air content that they don't want to. Instead I think that liberals and progressives should take a more proactive role in making their own media outlets.

        •  Restore standards to a limited resource (6+ / 0-)

          The "news" channels should be treated as a public trust. There is nothing wrong with establishing and enforcing some degree of minimum standards. I don't know if the Fiarness Doctrine is the best answer in the age of cable, satellite and internet, but it's not a given in my mind that it should not be restored.

          And what is wrong with requiring that what is presented as "news" adhere to some level of objective verifiability, and that what is presented as commentary be free of the kind of demagogic hatred and vituperative propaganda that now characterizes Fox -- and increasingly CNN. (Glenn Beck and Lou Dobbs anyone?) Yeah, I know, who gets to judge this? That's an argument for the Fairness Doctrine. And fairness that means that opposing viewpoints must be presented without the likes of Hannity and Billo screaming down the opposing speaker and cutting off their mike.

          Obama, now more than ever. ¡Sí se puede!

          by flitedocnm on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:45:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  nothing wrong with having journalists adhere to (3+ / 0-)

            some professional standards. They want to be considered professionals, then they should have some standards. The degree has become sort of a joke IMO, look at Palin....the whole profession needs a makeover. And I do some journalism myself. Opted for another field full time due to the lousy pay.

        •  So you are in favor of those people with (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          money and power controlling the airwaves. That's what the Fairness Doctrine was about, ensuring that people without money and power had access to equal time.

          By letting the market control the airwaves, you invite the strengthening of corporate propaganda, which has directly brought the lies of the Bush Administration without challenge.

          The Fairness Doctrine may not be a perfect solution, but not having some countervailing force to corporatism in media is what has brought this country directly into the Iraq war and destroyed the economy.

          It might have to be updated, but failure to correct the filthy corporatist pigs that give us Limbaugh with his $400 million dollar contract is an abomination. You have got to be joking that 'making our own media outlets' when competing with General Electric and Microsoft controlling a huge part of the market is anything other than a pipe dream.

          2008, the Year the Republican Party dissolved into a puddle of goo

          by shpilk on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 10:06:36 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I've heard the excuses that (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            "liberals and progressives don't have money", but I really don't buy it 100%. There are wealthy liberals and progressives out there. And it is possible to make a business plan that would succeed. For whatever reason the left has never really been interested in making its own TV network.

            The other thing is that the Democrats aren't aggressive enough in calling "media bias" themselves. They haven't also done anything to "work the refs" the way that the GOP has done for several decades.

            I think that going after the Fairness Doctrine is a losing strategy. And as for Microsoft, given that they control MSNBC, it seems like that network is somewhat fair to the Democrats. They do carry Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow.

      •  An improved fairness doctrine (9+ / 0-)

        Also, we need to re-regulate the media ownership.

        Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting

        by sacrelicious on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:39:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It needs to be modernized. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sacrelicious, SteelMaggie13

          1988 was a different era. We have satellite radio now, text messaging, internet.

          But the basic goal of the Fairness Doctrine was to ensure access to all for the common media space.

          The conglomeration of AM radio networks alone is a direct assault upon fairness. No way in hell should there be corporate control coast to coast without a countervailing force.

          Bring back anti-trust as well, and break up the media monopolies, too.

          2008, the Year the Republican Party dissolved into a puddle of goo

          by shpilk on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 10:11:14 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I know how you feel! (16+ / 0-)

    It's awful, frustrating and depressing when confronted with such negativity.

    I broke up with my boyfriend a month and a half ago. this was the person I thought I loved, and I thought i knew. I mean he would make these jokes about Obama, which I thought he was just kidding at first, but then I realized that he was serious.

    I finally couldn't take it anymore, and we had it out, and we realized politically we were miles apart.

    I am very much for progressive taxes, and I think both of us have nothing to worry about, we should do our duty and be fair. He was arguing that if Obama were elected his taxes would go up, and that would be like me going up to him and robbing money from his wallet with a gun.

    I honestly don't know why people are so uninformed about the whole mortgage crisis. Why they see the need to blame minorities, when it's just not true.

    These are uninformed voters and they are scary. Because they don't that they are uninformed and they simply don't care.

    "You dopes just got SCHOOLED Biden-Style" - SNL

    by pinkbunny on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 10:22:11 PM PDT

  •  I commend you. Being for Obama in the South (19+ / 0-)

    can't be as easy as it is on the West Coast where I live.

    "You are very wise, Van Helsing, for one who has yet to live a single lifetime." - Count Dracula

    by collardgreens on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 10:22:36 PM PDT

  •  Don't second guess yourself. (7+ / 0-)
    Keep it up. It comes from the heart. It might sound a bit sadistic, but I long for these confrontations. I'm in safe Seattle, and I want to confront some of these folks. Just my personality...Stay strong!
  •  Don't let it get you down... (13+ / 0-)

    the 23% who still think GWB is great are real, and are out there. Probably got a disproportionate amount of them in your neck of the woods. But it is they, not you, that will need to deal with cognitive dissonance on Nov.5!

    Thanks for sticking up for us!

  •  I spent a couple months at Gunter AFB, Alabama (22+ / 0-)

    It was in 2006 and I was attending the USAF Senior NCO Academy near Montgomery.  Some local political campaigning was going on, and I don't know if I were more amazed or more disgusted with the tenor of the campaigns.  As for the state itself, it was either McMansion or squalor with very little in-between.  

    Keep in mind I was living in Arkansas at the time, and the comparison between the two states was pretty stark.  Seeing Alabama actually made me proud of Governor Mike Huckabee and his relatively more liberal approach to governance and social justice.  I'm not being facetious here; Alabama is really that bad.

    Frankly, I can't imagine finding anything other than idiocy in the checkout line of a Birmingham Wal-Mart.  Apparently I'm wrong because you are testimony to the fact that progress happens even in Alabama.  I'm glad to hear you're on-duty there.  Keep the faith!

    •  Yes!! Everything you describe.. (9+ / 0-)

      is what it's like here sometimes.  There are some amazing stories of triumph over racism and small mindedness from time to time, but it's maddening how many of these people are just not thinking and they can be so full of hate.

      "A liberal is a conservative who's been hugged." ;o)

      by SteelMaggie13 on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 10:30:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Where's the love? (5+ / 0-)

      Great to hear you were in Bama for a moment. I actually am a AF brat and its the reason I came to Montgomery back in 96-00 before I came back to teach there from 2005-06. I know Alabama has it's difficulties, challenges and history. But while it was the birthplace of the confederacy, it also was the birthplace of the civil rights movement.

      I'm proud of the place I now call my hometown because of the potential in its people. Trust me, I've been pleasantly SHOCKED. Just this week I spoke with a friend of mine who works at a salon (which serves upper middle class women in East Montgomery) and she was saying how ridiculously unpopular Palin is among her clients. I was completely floored to hear it. My former student's, some of whom are now attending a conservative private high school (of course built a couple years after the Brown v. Board decision) have been messaging me excited by Obama's campaign and critical of McCain.

      Combine these stories with my earlier anecdote about my mom's colleagues from Wal-Mart calling me up for Obama shirts--and you have the other side of Alabama that is often untold: New families and a new generation giving birth to a new Alabama.So before you assume the worst out of the next Wal-Mart check out line in Alabama--remember that there may be a beautiful Filipina-American woman who just celebrated her 51st birthday on Friday, along with a few of her friends/colleagues who are quietly waiting on a package of Obama shirts, stickers, and signs in the mail--because even in Alabama, they still believe in a place called Hope! ;)

      •  My father used to say... (5+ / 0-)

        such sweet things about Alabama, even after having been one of those "bleeding heart liberals" in NYC in the 60s...

        I think he saw the potential for healing and I think he also found it ironic that his daughters ended up in Birmingham, AL.  He passed away recently and I think of him often during this election cycle... So often I long to be out of here, but I can almost hear him saying, "Wait, you're in the birthplace of the civil rights movement, bloom where you're planted."

        He died a hopeful man... He didn't have a chance to "meet" Obama before he died, but he had that hope of a "new birth" in Alabama, just like you talked about.
        I see that possibility here some day.

        Those kinds of things get me through.

        "A liberal is a conservative who's been hugged." ;o)

        by SteelMaggie13 on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:36:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  My mentor... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SteelMaggie13, dwayne a crusty old Chief Master Sergeant from Birmingham.  We're both retired now, but some impressions last a lifetime.

        there may be a beautiful Filipina-American woman who just celebrated her 51st birthday on Friday

        Mahubay!  My wife is Filipina-American.  Small world.  Oh, happy birthday.

  •  We love you!! Be Strong!! (12+ / 0-)

    Thanks for sharing. Again We love you for you strength.

  •  Have to face the facts that in many of the (16+ / 0-)

    Southern States, white voters will be probably 2 or 3 to 1 against Obama/Biden 2008.

    Still have a lot of work to do.

    But it's not just Alabama.
    Even in NH, where I live I hear all sorts of outright racist comments about Obama, about blacks and non-whites and people who "aren't Christian".

    It's just there are more minds that have been poisoned so thoroughly with religious and race hatred, they feel more free to challenge you.

    Fight back, every chance you get.
    Don't let them win.

    2008, the Year the Republican Party dissolved into a puddle of goo

    by shpilk on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 10:30:38 PM PDT

  •  In the immortal words of Kossack Fishgrease..... (16+ / 0-)

    Ayres? Doesn't matter. Wright? Doesn't matter.  Acorn? Doesn't matter. Socialism? Doesn't matter.

    Because Obama's gonna be elected president, and there isn't a goddamn thing you can do about it. How's that make you feel, Mr Meter Reader?  Ms Wal-Mart shopper? Ms. Accountant?

    Makes me feel mighty fine.

    "Obama's gonna be president, and there's not a goddamn thing you can do about it. How's that feel?" - Fishgrease

    by roxtar on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 10:31:29 PM PDT

  •  An Idea (21+ / 0-)

    I have been pondering an idea for sometime now and I think its high tide that maybe some people tried it out.  I am a black man with several white friends.  I too avoid political conversations just because.  My friends of course never come off as racist or anything but they do watch foxnews religiously and I am sure there are emails that they send amongst themselves that I never see.  So I was thinking....Why not work up a quick one page rebuttal of the most prevalent smears against Obama.  Maybe even if the full rebuttal isnt included on the page perhaps the urls to the online factchecking sites can be included on the lieu of the actual explanation to save space on the page.  If someone could come up with something like this that could be utilized by every obama supporter it could go a long way in promoting Barack Obama in uncomfortable situations such as the one you and your friend found yourself in.  It is telling that most of the horror stories about political conversations are still based on smears that have already been debunked.  Imagine the power we could have if we had a stack of flyers in our car with 10 of the most popular debunked smears on it that we could just hand over like a business card when we are confronted with misguided souls.  Imagine if confronted in that Walmart tonight instead of having to think on your feet you could have just reached in your pocket or your purse and pulled out a flyer to hand over to the cashier.  Now I am not crazy enough to believe that most of the people or even half of the people will be moved enough to change their votes just by a flyer.  But I think there will be a certain percentage that has just never been exposed to the truth who may be succeptible to something like this.  I am just throwing it out there because I think its a good idea in concept.  Maybe someone else could come along and refine it and make it viable for everyone to be able to use.

    •  Here's the link to the Obama email page on Snopes (7+ / 0-)


      It's pretty good, it's got all the Obama emails I've seen so far.

      And of course there is Obama's campaign site Stop the Smears

      "Yes he can, but first we have to elect him" ! President Bill Clinton, Aug 27, DNC Convention. Hey there Bill, when are going to help start electing him?

      by AntKat on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 10:39:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  More (8+ / 0-)

        I have all of the debunking websites but I am talking about something a little more directed and uniform.  Something that every Obama supporter can have on their person for easy access.  Something we can all print out at home or at the library for little to nothing so its somewhere between free and cheap.  The factchecking websites are good for an online back and forth but how do you transfer that to an effective flyer.  Something you can use in the real world and not have it just torn up and thrown away by every single person.  I am not talking about canvassing material.  I am talking about something geared specifically for rebuttal of a family member, friend or aquaintance.  Or in the Diarist's case, a nosey WalMart worker lol.  Trust me I fire off factchecking emails all day as well as go to blogs like politico and townhall to make sure that smears get debunked on different threads.  I just always feel naked in the real world away from my computer though.  Its much harder to have the conversation without my computer and all the websites to back me up when I am at the gas station or the grocery store.  I will bet that someone on this website can figure out a way to make this happen though and I hope we can all benefit from it!

        ps. there is another factchecking website that a lot of people don't know about.  Here is the link

    •  I think you're on to something.. (6+ / 0-)

      I've thought of making a double sided flier to have with me, in my car, etc. One side that debunks the most often repeated smears, and the other side that lists his accomplishments.  What I get the most sick of is hearing that "he hasn't done anything"... especially when they try to say he is responsible for everything that's wrong!

      Maybe we should all do that!  I'm willing to make some copies and hand them out!  LOL

      You guys  around here rock!

      "A liberal is a conservative who's been hugged." ;o)

      by SteelMaggie13 on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 10:39:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I regret that I have but one "recommend" for you (5+ / 0-)

      Palin: Every single word that comes out of her mouth -- or every single word that the McCain folks put in her mouth -- is a lie. (Josh Marshall 9/8/08)

      by Lurtz on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 10:45:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Your situation is all too common and it's (5+ / 0-)

    more than just the deep south. I actually had an interaction with a coworker myself who said that "we're 28 days away from a socialist government". I've heard from other educated people myself.

    The best strategy with people like that is to let them vent off, nod politely, and then let it go. You aren't going to change that person's mind and there's no point in getting angry or emotional about it. The people whom you and your sister encountered are part of that 40% who aren't going to change your mind.

    I'm sure that many of them feel the same way about us. So what I would do is just be polite and ignore it. There's not much else you can do otherwise.

    •  I think that is probably what they (4+ / 0-)

      are used to that's why they go around and put their foot in their mouth all the time, in fact have been emboldened to say even more and more bazaar and dangerous things about Obama.

      Once I corrected a few with facts they learn to shut up.  No one wants to feel like a complete fool and realize that they have been running around saying things proudly that have made them look like a fool.

      This time I think SteelMaggie did the right thing and made more people in that line listening in want to know why the other people all around the country are into something else.

  •  Keep at it! (9+ / 0-)

    I live in Oklahoma and I'm going to start wearing my Obama shirt as much as possible. Gotta advertise for my candidate, you know... ;)

    "We don't throw the first punch, but we'll throw the last." --Barack Obama, Oct. 6, 2008

    by Luthien Tinuviel on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 10:37:22 PM PDT

  •  Good for you! Rascists need to be stood up to (7+ / 0-)
    every time.  The idea that they can lap up the garbage that somehow low-income people caused this economic crisis just shows that they NEVER think for themselves.

    God save us from the ignorant.  Reminds me of the people who join religious scam movements so that  they will have someone to tell them what to do and  they don't have to take responsibility for their own lives.

  •  Housing prices shot up the highest in wealthier (6+ / 0-)

    neighborhoods. Point out that housing prices shot up the most in Florida, The Tri-State area and California, but not in poor neighborhoods. Interst rates were dropped very low and that enabled banks to offer really low mortgage rates causing a flood of all types of buyers. Inflation raised much higher than wages in areas like education 60%healthcare78%, food, utilities and gas. Poor people didn't get rich off of this mess Bush gave us, but many Wall Street types did.

    Show her the FOX propaganda video on YouTube.

  •  Stay Strong.. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lurtz, SteelMaggie13, rock2casbah

    It is about being positive, just like you said.  That is what most people are looking for.  Secondly just like Gpooserock said:  "They ran everything and everything is broken.."  It should be all you have to say.  

  •  You should probably move (5+ / 0-)

    Seriously. Just let them have the state

    Obama = Mario, Biden = Luigi

    by acsguitar on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 10:44:25 PM PDT

  •  This election is, in part . . . (8+ / 0-)

    a showdown with the ugliest chapters in American history.

    The ugly won't go down without a fight.

    Coming on 1/20/09: the finest inaugural address since 1961, (or possibly even 1861). Set your Tivos now.

    by Rick in Oz on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 10:45:09 PM PDT

  •  They've lost, so they continue to divide (6+ / 0-)

    It's the only hope they have of even continuing as a party, is to ratchet up the hate among enough people that they don't completely fall apart.

    Obama is their nightmare, because he might ACTUALLY united the country in a way that would mean their complete liquidation and destruction.

    And what's so sad is that it's working.  They're not gonna win the election, but they're gonna keep themselves alive through festering hatred and racism and fear and distrust.

    •  real reason for ratcheting up the hate: (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      making an excuse for all their own failures.  Never admitting failure is a mantra within the GOP (I think it'll be W's lasting legacy to the party in fact) and the idea of saying "we need to retool" is something they'll avoid even if it means trashing the country they so claim to love.

      I can't wait until the first pundit looks at the landslide election results and try to spin it as "the American people hate America."

  •  Tips for snitty and bitchy and proud (4+ / 0-)

    We're all

    I'm a progressive man, and I love progressive people - Tosh

    by VeganMilitia on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 10:48:12 PM PDT

  •  I'd go with something like... (11+ / 0-)

    "What's more likely?  That the 55% of Americans who are going to vote for Obama hate America so much they would vote for a terrorist... OR that the people who told you these lies are desperate, sore losers who will say anything to keep their power?"  

    Incidentally, Obama store is sold out of some of the better shirts...  boo.

    Scare-a Palin: Democratic Fundraiser of the Century

    by Steko on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 10:51:47 PM PDT

    •  Thank you. I need that. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SteelMaggie13, rock2casbah

      "What's more likely?  That the 55% of Americans who are going to vote for Obama hate America so much they would vote for a terrorist... OR that the people who told you these lies are desperate, sore losers who will say anything to keep their power?"

      Excellent.  Pithy, concise, and, when delivered in a calm, reasonable tone, a riposte that will likely be pondered by them for a while afterward.  Good job.  

      "A bad government is elected by good people who do not vote in elections." -- Unknown, pg 342, "The Shell Game" by Steve Alten

      by sockpuppet on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:15:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  There are two kinds of problems. (11+ / 0-)

    (1) The ones that belong to you and (2) the ones that belong to the other guy.

    Recognize who owns the problem. (Hint: in this case, it isn't you.)

    I also live in AL. I see very few signs for anyone. People may be for JSMcCIII, but they don't care enough to show it. The only signs I  see are for local candidates.

    I too am an outsider. Because I am a visitor, so to speak, in their culture, I purposely try to blend in. I don't call attention to the ways in which I am different. If a conversations turns to politics, I try to seem reasonable and to cast doubts upon their assumptions.

  •  have a hug *hug* (4+ / 0-)

    take heart not everyone is this way and some can even eventually be reached.

    And those that can't be reached well sadly they will be outshouted by those that can past someone's skin color

  •  i gave a friend a car magnet/sticker (5+ / 0-)

    He lives in texas in a surban gated community in dallas
    he is way to afraid to plaster the damn thing on his car

  •  It's been tough being an Obama supporter here in (17+ / 0-)

    Tennessee too. About a month ago I got into a verbal altercation with a man at the mall...he was just downright nasty. Then I was talking to my sis on the phone the other day about the election and she says "I don't think John(not his real name) will vote for Obama but I'm going to vote for him" I asked her why he would not vote for him...she said because he is black. And this is a good man...a good family man that I have never heard utter an ill word about really made me sad because I had no idea he was racist. The bad part is I had planned to take my sisters family with us on an "election holiday". I was planning on renting a really nice log cabin at a resort a couple of hours away and watch the election results there on a big 60 plasma screen television. It was going to be a real celebration for our family...or at least that my plan. If he doesn't vote for Obama, this may sound mean and Im not a mean person but I don't want him there. I have waited to long for this for someone to be a wet blanket on election night. I had plans to cook a fabulous meal and have a really good time with my family.

    Another story...I was shopping at the mall the other day and I was in Belks and the cashier was ringing up my purchase and she noticed my Obama tote bag and she said I like your tote bag but I like my pin was a McCain/Palin pin. She smiled and was very friendly and so was I but I wanted to scream at her. I just don't understand people.

    •  kind of surprised to see (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      a cashier in a chain store wearing a pin for a presidential candidate.  Maybe you should've called the manager and asked if that was the Belk's corporate endorsement, was her pin speaking on behalf of the company?  Because when I worked at Kmart in the 1980s, the manager had to put out a memo banning political buttons after one of the employees proselytized to someone who asked about her Reagan pin.  

  •  Cheers, SteelMaggie13 (9+ / 0-)

    I hate confrontation. I hate arguing. I can't stand fighting. I don't even like uneasy quiet spells when people are frustrated with each other.

    My wife even admitted to occasionally intentionally trying to get me mad at her so I would raise my voice or something, because she thought it was so weird I wouldn't fight.

    I don't like having my heart race or feeling the adrenaline rush, but most of all I feel like an utter moron who can't string a coherent thought together. I make Sarah Palin look masterful. I can make a whole lot of sense in my head, but when the mouth gets in gear... "Well, you know, that, thing... It, um. That guy? He did the. Um. You know."

    Palin: Every single word that comes out of her mouth -- or every single word that the McCain folks put in her mouth -- is a lie. (Josh Marshall 9/8/08)

    by Lurtz on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 10:54:08 PM PDT

    •  Oh, but when you believe in (5+ / 0-)

      something, I bet you can get your point across.  I admire people who can speak softly or even awkwardly and still get their points across. Something tells me you do just fine in a pinch.  

      I am usually pretty awkward myself (which is why I haven't convinced myself to try phone banking)... LOL, so I am hoping I didn't sound like a goofball to her.. She didn't mistake my passion though.  She knew I believed in what I was saying. LOL

      "A liberal is a conservative who's been hugged." ;o)

      by SteelMaggie13 on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 10:59:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  the same people who love jumping on people (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      who disagree with them tend to be "drama queens" or "drama kings," people who don't know how to live life or can't stand life without constant turmoil swirling around them, even if they have to invent it. I know, I was married to one...was.  And I sure in the hell don't want to vote for such a person and can't take such a person seriously if they're touting a candidate or idea.

  •  you did a great job (8+ / 0-)

    you stuck to the issues and did not attack McCain's character or insult his supporters.
    You also shared your personal reasons for supporting Obama, which is always more genuine than spouting talking points.You did great!

    -7.88/-4.41 The best way to enhance freedom in other lands is to demonstrate here that our democratic system is worthy of emulation. Jimmy Carter

    by Interceptor7 on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 10:54:33 PM PDT

  •  oops (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lirtydies, churchlady, SteelMaggie13

    I forgot to say John is my brother in law. I guess you all could figure that out though. :D

  •  Bravo to you (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lauramp, adrianrf, SteelMaggie13

    Thanks and bravo to you----having lived in small town Alabama years ago and having cast my first vote for President as an Alabama voter.  Not everybody voted for Wallace in Alabama in 1968.

    But your diary discloses what is very scary about the next month and that is the impact of FOX and right wing talk radio.  

    We have to redouble our efforts for Obama to counter it.

    More Obama T shirt wearing !

  •  Your really at ground zero for tension (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Rogneid, SteelMaggie13

    there aren't you. thanks for that.

    Reformer? Palin? NOT!

    by foggycity on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 10:56:57 PM PDT

  •  Some advice from a fellow southerner (12+ / 0-)

    -restate the stats about how the deficit was the lowest under democratic administrations, wages of middle and low income workers was much higher, jobless rate was a lot less, and middle class expanded and the rich did fine under tax cuts that were lower than reagans'

    -tell them palin bragged about getting a D in economics during her gubernatorial race, and took 6 years to graduate from several mediocre colleges some of which were community colleges (this usually only happens if you've done something wrong, OR if your grades sucked and you needed to save your GPA)

    -tell them mccain graduated 5th from the bottom of a 900 student class in college, and only got in and only graduated b/c of his family's connections. he failed math and economics by the way.

    -tell them joe biden and obama both have degrees in higher education past college, and actually got decent grades.

    - if they give you the affirmative action excuse which they always do, tell them that obama graduated magna cum laude of harvard law and was the president of the harvard law review and taught law at a prestigious law school for 12 years, and didnt impose his liberal values (if you can call them that) on his students, to which some of his liberal students were even disappointed. (there's now a rumor that the Annenberg challenge on which obama and ayers worked on was some conspiracy to indoctrinate children with leftist socialist values..go figure)

    people are really looking for someone smart this time, and when i give people their educational pedigrees to compare, they change their mind sometimes.

    •  education scares people (9+ / 0-)

      ...or makes them jealous. don't know why.  the argument is illogical to me, but these are often people without education so maybe they have a different type of logic.

      •  i dont know, maybe. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        but for some people i meet it counters the experience angle, especially when i remind them that bill clinton was a rhodes scholar. i then let them connect the dots.  but i'll add this, it wont work all the time, especially if you're presumptuous about it. so you're right in that sense.

      •  yeah and I tell such peope I don't get it (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        and that I will go to my grave wondering out loud why I'm supposed to give someone "points off" for being "too smart," I was raised to respect intelligence. I tell them any such argument against too much education is lost on me before the speaker ever opens their mouths.   To argue otherwise is to go against everything I believe in and was raised to believe in.

        I also point out that Washington was overwhelmingly selected as our first president for a reason, as opposed to simply running the supply sergeant from Valley Forge, and that Lincoln fought to get an education, he didn't just reposition himself as the "average joe" candidate.

    •  I'd be really careful (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SteelMaggie13, Angela0317

      about trashing community colleges. They've helped many working class people secure decent, higher-paying jobs, and for many people it's all they can afford.

      I see no upside whatsoever to insulting them by saying you only end up there if you've "done something wrong or your grades sucked." That just feeds the false elitist meme.

      "I can't come to bed yet! Someone is WRONG on the Internet!" - XKCD

      by SingularExistence on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 05:58:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I went to a community college (4+ / 0-)

      for two years because they had a fantastic Interior Design program, which none of the local 4-year colleges and universities have.  I was very happy with my education there.  I also happened to visit four colleges in six years on my way to a music degree.  I have a good job and I am good at what I do.  It's what you do with the degree.  So that argument against Sarah Palin doesn't resonate well with me.  A better argument would be how her education didn't prepare her for the position for which she is running.

      Une salsa, muy salsa!

      by I teach music on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 06:52:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I went to community college too (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        before transferring to Auburn (War Eagle!) and then got a JD years later.  I agree that community college should not be held against Sarah Palin.  But I think that going to six colleges in five years is noteworthy.  I haven't heard an explanation from her for so many different schools, but I can't imagine a good reason to jump from school to school like that.  It doesn't come across as stable or committed.

  •  Even if Barack does about as well as he can (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    latts, PinHole, Rogneid, SteelMaggie13, creamer

    McCain will still get at least 40% of the vote (and more in Alabama). I've come to the conclusion that Republicans are much more 'in-your-face' about their political opinions. I don't see too many Obama supporters coming up to complete strangers with 'McCain/Palin' shirts and asking them 'Why?'. Make no mistake, we are winning, and Senator Obama will not let it slip away.

    Love that "power of the purse!" It looks so nice up there on the mantle (and not the table) next to the "subpoena power."

    by Sacramento Dem on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 10:57:34 PM PDT

    •  You're right! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sacramento Dem, davybaby, PinHole

      They DO always assume all of us white people are Republicans around here.  They are completely SHOCKED when they find out I'm not.  

      I saw a saying once that said, "Don't assume I share your prejudices."  

      That's what I want to tell those people.

      "A liberal is a conservative who's been hugged." ;o)

      by SteelMaggie13 on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:12:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I saw 'the Chris Matthews Show' (4+ / 0-)

        (which I hadn't even known existed) and he had some polling that showed Clinton in 96 got 43% of the white vote, Gore in 2000 got 42%, and Kerry in 2004 got 41%. Apparently Obama is at 46% (I do wonder about the other 54%, but I don't bother wasting my time interrogating them).

        Love that "power of the purse!" It looks so nice up there on the mantle (and not the table) next to the "subpoena power."

        by Sacramento Dem on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:20:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Bless you (4+ / 0-)

    I know what you mean -- because when I travel in business to Alabama --

    I am not allowing myself to speak on anything but on business subjects - mainly I just smile and nod or shake my head.

    I do not know how you make it on a daily basis - my head would explode.

    "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

    by sara seattle on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 10:58:05 PM PDT

  •  I have been trying this - (4+ / 0-)

    I say or write something along these lines:

    I can sure see why you could get all wrapped up in those Foxx ideas, there's a whole philosphy and play book for that kind of campaigning.  Do you remember Dukukas in the pith helmet? Or that Clinton was supposted to have renounced his citizenship and was a secret KGB agent, Or Kerry being swiftboated,even McCain says that wasn't true, Or Gore being a zinc miner, Or even that McCain has a black baby.  

    The rules are easy, anyone can do it, there has to be some truth, like Obama did get contributions from Resko, so did Bush by the way.  Then you have someone tell the story and have a new organization talk about - even if they debunk it people are going to believe it- you know where there is smoke there is fire.  Voila, you can fool the honest person every time because an honest person is a trusting person.  

    Then I go on to tell them about Bruce Hawkins (fight the smears, there are others but he has the most 'interesting' story) and voila, if you can discredit the teller, you discredit the story.  

    "We cannot solve today's problems using the mindset that created them." Albert Einstein

  •  It must be the day for idiots in Alabama (24+ / 0-)

    I almost diaried this earlier but decided against it.

    I went to the grocery store this afternoon and made sure to put on my Obama button before I left the house. I try to make sure I'm always wearing it these days. In Mobile, Alabama I figure lots of people need to feel that it's "okay" to vote for Obama, and frankly, every white person they see supporting him, the better.

    I got out of my car at Bruno's and there was an elderly gentleman about to get into his car. I smiled and said "Hi, how are you?" as I was passing and he said, "Hey... don't you want to vote for John McCain?"

    "No sir, I don't."

    He frowned. "Why not?"

    I tried to be 'gentle' in my response and not say what I really felt about McCain, so I said something like "Well, Barack Obama is a very intelligent man and I feel likes he's got the clear head and the calm tempermant that we really need right now."

    The man glowered then and said, "But he's... he's a Muslim."

    "No sir, he's a Christian. He has been for 20 years."  (I know it might sound like I'm trying to shade my responses here, but he was an elderly man and my mom pretty much beat respect for my elders into me as a child. I was constitutionally incapable of being rude to the man.)

    He started getting really angry then. "He hangs around with that damn terrorist preacher. The God damn America guy. He's a terrorist!"

    "No, sir, he's not. He's a good man that loves this country."

    "He's a terrorist! A Muslim terrorist!"

    At this point we were drawing stares and I just walked away with one final, "No sir, he's not."

    I was utterly calm while talking to him but in the grocery store I started shaking.

    I didn't stop until after I got home.

    "Well, the problem here is that you're out of candy. You're gonna need more candy." Rachel Maddow on the Big Bailout

    by cishart on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:00:36 PM PDT

    •  Ohhh... . (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sockpuppet, PinHole, cishart

      Thanks for sharing that... The shaking.. I know that feeling well.  But we just have to keep at it!

      Speak your mind, even if your voice shakes! ( I love that saying)

      "A liberal is a conservative who's been hugged." ;o)

      by SteelMaggie13 on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:14:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  should have told him about Wright's Nam service (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      karenc13, SteelMaggie13, dwayne, JWinOC

      Explain that Jeremiah Wright voluntarily gave up his student deferment and served two tours of duty in Vietnam as a Marine.  Then he re-enlisted as a medical corpseman, and was good enough to be on LBJ's surgical team.

      This always seems to give a nice cup of STFU to the haters out there.

    •  So he's a Muslim... (4+ / 0-)

      who hangs around with a radical Christian preacher.  How does that work?

      •  oh it's simple (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        chuck logic to the side, and you can have Obama, Wright and Ayers all making pipe bombs in the basement together, praying to Allah and then having a laugh at the idea God even exists.  Then one of them hates his country so much he runs for President and people actually vote for him.  Then it makes all the sense in the world.

        BTW I love how he's supposed to be a "secret Muslim and terrorist" and the media is "deliberately keeping people in the dark about it," yet it somehow leaked to some lout drinking coffee at a Waffle House in Alabama.
        Evidently logic is the worst thing that can happen to some of these people.

    •  I met an inspiring young Obama supporter (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SteelMaggie13, wewhodream

      in Huntsville.  Last night I went to dinner at a friend's house, and the college-aged daughter of my friends had a friend visiting who attends UAH here in Huntsville.  She was darling and soooo enthusiastic about Obama.  She said there are lots of UAH students who are also.  The young people of Alabama are going to help change things.  It's only a matter of time.

    •  I Believe We Have Been Edging (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SteelMaggie13, moondance

       ....toward a dominant mindset of disrespect in this country for years...maybe decades.  We must always respect one another.  My sense is that by calling the man "Sir", you helped to diffuse a situation that could have gone wrong.  I too was raised to respect my elders (I was born in 1957); it's more than just habit, or convention.  It is a connection between people that says, "I may not agree with you, but I see you as a human being."  
        I would have been shaking too.  I even get shaky (complete with goosebumps) when talking to other Obama supporters.  Can't help it.  

      "Ours is to shed light." --We Who Dream.

      by wewhodream on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 06:45:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This will put things into perspective (15+ / 0-)

    EC map of the 1964 landslide election.  Some things just don't change.  Don't let it get you down :)


  •  My own sister's using the "not experienced" meme. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sockpuppet, Lurtz, SteelMaggie13

    She and her husband came over for dinner, and we got into talking about the election. She said she was still undecided, and went off on the "bailing out mortgage lenders" meme like it was Obama's fault this whole financial business happened. I tried to set her straight, but she is pretty set in her ways.

    "Undecided" for some people when you're an outspoken liberal means they're going to vote for McCain, which to me is saddening, but oh well. :(

    Do you want to leave your children a legacy of hope or hopelessness? Vote Obama '08 and save our country!

    by boofdah on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:01:11 PM PDT

    •  did she vote for Bush in 2000? (5+ / 0-)

      I always ask the "experience" concern trolls how they were able to vote for Bush in 2000, when his only experience was running companies into the ground and being the 2nd most powerful executive in Texas (lt gov has more power than gov in TX), compared to Gore's 30 years of public service.

      •  That assumes they care for Bush NOW. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        boofdah, SteelMaggie13

        Now, they could throw the 'lack of experience' thing back at us, make us defend the Bushtard in order to defend Obama.

        It should be deflected because it's largely not true, and anyway, the only people currently able to run for President that HAVE experience are Jimmy Carter, and George Bush Sr.  I don't see either of them racing to throw their hats in the ring again..

        I'm pretty convinced there is no experience that fully prepares ANYONE to be President.

        I'm still an Edwards supporter, and a Patriots fan. Not having the best year here...

        by Stymnus on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 06:15:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I don't think so, and she voted Kerry in 2004... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        ...but only after I spent weeks talking her into it. She does feel sorry for Bush, thinking if only we had to deal with a tragedy as big as 9/11 and would we want to be in his shoes?


        Do you want to leave your children a legacy of hope or hopelessness? Vote Obama '08 and save our country!

        by boofdah on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 06:23:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Siblings, OY! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      boofdah, SteelMaggie13

      I have siblings in North Carolina and Florida who I wish I could influence toward the intelligent pick, but no luck so far.  BIG SIGH!

  •  Kick ass and take names. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cali Techie, SteelMaggie13

    If they get in your face, by all means try to be polite. But remember that when you are confronting lies and stupidity, they are the ones who set the foul tone.

    "Troll-be-gone...apply directly to the asshole. Troll-be-gone...apply directly to the asshole."

    by homogenius on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:01:43 PM PDT

  •  Good for you. Stand tall. Be Strong. (9+ / 0-)

    I am a recent transplant from the beautiful Blue Kentucky (work related). So I feel your pain. It can be disheartening, and emotional sometimes... and sometimes it just makes you want to shut down.

    I think the recent coverage the McCain/Palin hate-filled mobs does make for an easier argument & quick retort when you actually don't want to get into policy with your average 'man/woman on the street'. It supplies you with an easy answer...

    'Have you seen how hate-filled and violent the McCain/Palin supporters are lately, they have pushed out moderates (since right-wingers sometimes like to think they are middle-of-the-road), and it's now a bunch of extremists? Even the respectable die-hard Republican's are abandoning ship' .... I know most of the people who question you have never even really questioned themselves; they vote straight party line.

    Like you, I always like to immediately discredit & dismiss Fox New, too. (and I don't mind sounding 'elitist' when I do so)

    Stay strong, I am sure you will give encouragement to some of the silent Obama supporters meandering the local Wal-Mart.

  •  you did great (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Black Max, lauramp, SteelMaggie13

    I also think it's important to remember that you can't expect to persuade people in a single encounter.  It takes time and patience and repetition.  All those nerve cells in their brains need to be reprogrammed.  

    Furthermore, they're WRONG, and it's always very difficult to admit that you're wrong.

  •  Thank you (4+ / 0-)

    for sharing!

    Even tho you are in "red" country, I would call that an OK day. You got to take on some of the haters and I think they know their time is up.

    HOPEFULLY we are moving towards a new time. The future looks good once we diminish these hateful people!

  •  Is the "you must watch Fox News" line ... (4+ / 0-)

    ... the best tactic?

    That makes it sort of confrontational, and that's not always the most persuasive position. I wonder if something like this (even if it's not 100% true) might not work better: "I really came around to supporting him after I started watching more CNN and MSNBC (or when I started reading some newspaper or website etc) and I realized that a lot of things I'd heard on Fox weren't really true. Now I've come to believe Obama's the best candidate ... etc." Now that story might not have one bit of truth in it, but I wonder if telling it might not lead to more positive results in these kind of encounters.

  •  These folks will latch onto any scapegoat (3+ / 0-)

    Good God!:

    Jen said even after telling this woman that she was pro Obama, the woman launched into a diatribe about Democrats and n******s and how ACORN and homeowners (of a particular color) were responsible for the mess our country is in now

    Minorities and ACORN are the new illegal immigrants?  WTF is wrong with these people?  Do they just MadLib this stuff up?

    •  Racism (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SteelMaggie13, island in alabama

      It's the south. That's what they do. The Civil War is still being fought except these days it's mostly with words instead of weapons.

      The next time someone tries to blame the current economic mess on the Democrats remind them who has been in charge most of the last decade and that the Democrats were shut out of pretty much everything until a year ago and the Republicans are still finding ways to keep things from working. Remind them that back in January 2001, gasoline was less than $2/gallon and it nearly tripled in price, the steepest 7 year price increase in history. The next time they talk about tax and spend Democrats remind them the last time a Democrat was President we had fought for a balanced budget and in his last two years in office we had budget surpluses while the last three Republican presidents ran up record deficits and none of them met a spending bill they didn't like. The next time they talk about Obama and earmarks remind them Gov. Palin said "Thanks" for that bridge to nowhere long before she said "no thanks."

      When the Republicans start acting like monkeys and slinging shit, don't take any of it, fling it back at them.

      So many impeachable offenses, so little time... -6.0 -5.33

      by Cali Techie on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:14:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  My opinion is... (3+ / 0-)

      the ones who run with those half cocked stories (ACORN, poor minorities responsible for economic mess, etc.) actually want to believe it so badly that they will do everything in their power not to find out that it's false.

      I'm sure we've all experienced this - having a "reasoned" debate (mostly online for me) with someone from the other side, and all our rock solid arguments and valid facts are conveniently left unaddressed. That to me is the supremely frustrating part about not being able to debate someone face to face, but OTOH a lot of times in a face to face I'll know the general meme but won't have all the facts memorized. Especially when there's so much info out there (I should start printing it out and carrying it around with me!).

      Oh well. :/

      "And when justice is gone, there's always force."

      by soundchaser on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:25:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  that doesn't frustrate me half as much (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        as the fact they want me to swallow all of that on the spot and chuck all of my own evidence to the side.  They say "Go look it up!" and I say "I did and I came back with what I told you, if I missed anything here's my email, send me the link."  Once the emails start coming they're easier to deal with, they can't shout me down at my house or slap my hands away from the laptop keyboard while they scream at me.

  •  I know just how you feel (16+ / 0-)

    I'm not currently in the Deep South.  But that's where I'm from, and all my family Klan is there, still.  Today I ventured a discussion with a Bush-cult Republican sibling by phone.  The experience left me feeling like I needed to take a shower; demoralized by the rampant, willful ignorance and bigotry.  It's just so hard to accept that my own family members can be such stoopid morons.  (They are otherwise very good people, and show reasonable intelligence in other areas of life.  Go figure.)

    "Obama is gonna run me outta business!  He's gonna put you outta business!  He's gonna raise taxes that are just gonna kill us!"

    " you make over $250,000 a year?"


    "Well, then you don't need to worry about taxes under an Obama administration.  In fact, you'll get a tax break with Obama.  McCain, on the other hand, intends to tax our insurance plans.  He will end our tax deductions for having company insurance plans for ourselves and our employees!"

    "I don't care about that!  I don't trust Obama!  I'm voting for McCain and I don't want to talk to you about this anymore!"  (Obviously afraid I'll start making even more sense, as I usually do, ever since this time in 2002 when the Bush admin started the drums of war.  I even said then, there are no WMD in Iraq!!  Ummmm...can we see a pattern here of McCain More Of The Same?)

    "So...I guess you like Sarah Palin."

    "I love Sarah.  I absolutely love her."

    "That's really sad."

    I felt so depressed and demoralized afterwards.  So angry at such blatant, intentional ignorance and reveling in being a "low-information" voter, yet again by these cretins who put in George Bush to begin with.  My family are in the 18% who still b'lieve GW is a great president.  No kiddin'.

    How do we get through to these idiots?  How?

    Thanks for posting your righteous rant.  Makes me feel better to know I'm not the only one experiencing this and reacting this way.  I get why your sister was so upset.  I got an intense headache after I hung up with mine.

    "A bad government is elected by good people who do not vote in elections." -- Unknown, pg 342, "The Shell Game" by Steve Alten

    by sockpuppet on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:08:05 PM PDT

  •  From the good old AL as well (8+ / 0-)

    I have to deal with my parents on the election issue. My mom flat out told me she wasn't voting based on race (yet said she wasn't racist... I still haven't figured that out but I love her).

    My dad... probably the same. He hasn't said it's because of race but he just asked me several times why would I vote for Obama.

    My Sister is apathetic to the whole thing. She'll vote BO if she votes (which is likely becasue I'm dragging her with me).

    I don't have a shirt, but I should get one. Leads to fun conversations like the ones you've had.

    Obama/Biden - A sexy mix of change with level headiness and now thanks to Palin, More total experience.

    by TekJansen on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:08:38 PM PDT

    •  my mother swore she also wasn't racist (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      one day, then went on a 30 minute rant about why there's a "Miss Black America" and no "Miss White America."  She acted like MBA was something bad being done specifically to her.  I told her she'd just argued with herself and lost.

  •  Keep it up. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, linx

    Must be interesting to live in a place where people disagree on such fundamental issues.  here, it's mostly whether you are for Obama positively (as I am), or cynically (as many of my work colleagues are).

  •  I've never understood the South.. (11+ / 0-)

    In 2004, 26 of the 28 poorest states voted for Bush.

    TX is a solid red state, even though the state has the highest percentage uninsured residents.

    I just don't understand how racial resentment, gay rights, and abortion could be that important.

    •  I don't know, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      but I do know some folks who vote party line...doesn't matter who is on the ticket.   I'd also add into the mix a 1/2cup of generational poverty and a 1/2cup of generational ignorance.  Oh yeah, throw a dash of FoxNews in there as well.

      If I'm not mistaken, LBJ, when signing the Civil Rights Act, said he thought the Democrats would lose the South for the next 50 years....we're almost to the 50 year mark.

      I was born and raised in the South and I do know many good Southern Democrats.  We're here, really we are!

  •  YOU are amazing! (9+ / 0-)

    After a crappy week, you got confronted and still managed to say this! "Well, the reason for 'all this' (imitating the same movement she made indicating my shirt) is because THIS is a positive movement. I feel excited and joyful and hopeful about this election. I believe in this guy. I'm very happy with my candidate and  I support Obama completely. It's not the dismal, hateful, scary stuff the other side is offering. That's why."

    BRILLIANT.  The ideal comeback, because it's unassailable.  I think that's why a lot of us are with Obama.

  •  One small correction. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sephius1, orangeuglad, SteelMaggie13

    Either way, it feels good to stand toe to toe with these people and KNOW I'm on the right LEFT side of this thing!!

  •  "No More Drama With OBAMA" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cali Techie, SteelMaggie13

    That what the first comment I received when I added two pins to my backpack.. I was quite happy knowing that others felt the same..
    Some times it gives me the opportunity to speak to others or open a conversation.. Many see my pins and Cheer or say "Nice pins" etc.
    But then again I live in Liberalfornia :P And I attend a fairly Dem leaning University

    I'm very glad you were able to confront these type of confrontations the way you did.. I mean, the level of anger from the dark side has risen dramatically and I just hope we can finish this campaign quickly and successfully..


    by totc on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:17:18 PM PDT

  •  Good for you (4+ / 0-)

    And being a little snippy in Alabama may be a good thing....Let's 'em know you will not be intimidated...

  •  Do these people even know ... (6+ / 0-)

    ... what socialism means?  Seriously.  Or do they just know it's SCARY BAD OH NOES.  I bet they couldn't define it when pressed to do so.

    It's like when this site gets painted as 'extreme left-wing' by the wingnuts.  Really?  We're advocating the abolition of private property and a centrally-planned economy?  I must've missed that part.  We can't even get our presidential candidate to advocate for universal healthcare for fear of spooking everyone.  I love how our 'liberal' Democrats would actually be a center-right party in just about any other Western country.  Where's the sense of perspective?

    Meanwhile, our current Treasury Secretary was gleefully announcing the ACTUAL socialization of our largest banks and nobody bats an eye.  Heh.

  •  Any accountant that.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cali Techie, SteelMaggie13 that stupid should not be trusted to do work for you.  If an accountant can't see that it wasn't the people with the bad loans but the people that packaged and bet on them that is the cause should be delicensed.

    As to the meterman.  If he is scared by an artuculate, educated, talented rich black man I wonder how fearful he is of a poor uneducated black man.  He is a real fearful person at heart.

    We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

    by delver rootnose on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:19:30 PM PDT

  •  Good luck to ya in lala land (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I'm Exxon John and I approve this message---McCain's Scumbags

    by Obamacrat on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:20:27 PM PDT

  •  I hate the my team vs your team frame (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, pestopasta

    I just wish it was easier to get through to those indoctrinated with the anti-Obama smears that we all lose if Obama loses.

  •  Congrats.. (7+ / 0-)

    I got into an argument with my brother about 2 years ago about the Iraq war. He's a Foxite, and I'm very liberal. Basically it came down to me yelling at him facts and 'reality' and him saying, "Oh, this is the way it is." Well, everyting I said came true, everything he said was bunk. Even his wife admitted afterwards (after she and my aunt broke up apart) how I was like a professor and he was like a little student without any backing for his arguments.

    It's sad because he's military, I'm trying to keep people like him out of the unnecessary wars, and he's convinced that these revoling Republicans support him. I'll be honest, if someone attacks this country, I would pick up a gun and fight them the hell out--so I'm definitely not afraid of war. I refuse though to fight for oil when it benefits only those families with governmental power who cause war to only line the pockets of them and their families.

    •  asked him about the VotVets ads? GIBill? (5+ / 0-)

      You'd think that Republicans voting against body armor, armored vehicles, veterans health care and a new GI Bill for veterans would start to seep into their thick skulls.

      •  Many service members are brainwashed (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        into believing the Republicans are better for them. That was certainly the conventional wisdom when I was active duty, except I kept bringing up things like having our effective dates of salary increases delayed by a quarter, early contract termination, and talk of getting rid of the USMC (they were talking about it during the first Reagan term). Whenever I was confronted with that conventional "wisdom" I usually asked questions that got me in trouble...

        So many impeachable offenses, so little time... -6.0 -5.33

        by Cali Techie on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:20:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Donations from military (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Cali Techie

          are 6 to 1 in favor of Obama.. That is astonishing and encouraging!  I think a few of them are breaking free!

          "A liberal is a conservative who's been hugged." ;o)

          by SteelMaggie13 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:38:37 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Part of that is because (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SteelMaggie13, island in alabama

            Back when I was in the USMC there was no Internet. Cheap, near-real time point to point communication is making all the difference. Now days thanks to advancements in medicine and communications more people are surviving their battle injuries and they're telling their friends who are still in combat what awaits them should they end up becoming a casualty. They're hearing about how McCain voted against increased funding for veterans' health care and how Obama voted for it. It's getting harder for Republicans to keep claiming they are better for the military and the troops because it's too easy debunk those claims.

            So many impeachable offenses, so little time... -6.0 -5.33

            by Cali Techie on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 01:13:32 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  I live in Pensacola (NW Florida) (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FyodorFish, SteelMaggie13, unertl

    It's a navy town with lots of McCain supporters.  

    I never was really into politics much until this year.  If you want to bomb a conversation, start talking about family problems, religion or POLITICS.  However this year is important, and it's important to get involved in politics.  

    Republican have a different mind set.  You've got the free market loons or the overzealous moralistic types.  They focus on those one of those two things and don't allow thought for much anything else.  It's the uncultivated mind.  The unwavering, "I'm never wrong" attitude.  They lack ideas, and it will lead to their demise.

    Anyway, I got one of those anti-Obama emails from a former friend and I unloaded on her.  It was a cut-n-paste hit job.  

    Obama has no other option than to be a great president.  Hopeful after a while the opposition will realize that.  

    All I can say is be strong.  

  •  Keep the faith and hang in there (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    aimeeinkc, lauramp, SteelMaggie13

    As a Texas Obama supporter, I feel your pain.  It's actually probably not as bad here as it is in Alabama - Dallas County will probably go blue this November, and I've seen a nice ratio of Obama/Dem signs to McCain/Repub signs in my neighborhood, and the same with bumper stickers.  But I too have encountered a fair share of ignorant motherfuckers, and have more than a few in my family as well.  My uncle in Arkansas, who is often much more open with his racism and bigotry than I'm comfortable with, thinks that Obama is the anti-christ.  Literally.  We've discussed the elections a few times, and it's never pretty.  But fortunately, he almost never votes, and I doubt he will this time around either.

    My dad, on the other hand (he's kind of racist too, but not as irredemably so as my uncle), is voting for Obama.  But then, he's also a retired Teamster, and his opinion of Republicans is low enough to trump his racism.  :-)  But I do remember at one point that he was considering staying at home and not voting, because he didn't like the idea of a black man running the country.  I've had to bite my tongue on more than a few occasions while discussing the elections with him.

    It's going to be hard getting there, but it will be worth enduring all this ignorance once Obama is elected.  I have a feeling that eight years of a competent, trustworthy president who happens to be an African-American is going to have a profoundly positive effect on the racial attitues of a lot of people.  And the ones who aren't effected are probably beyond reach, but are also probably few in number.  It ain't always gonna be pretty getting there in the meantime, but we will get there.

    •  thanks for sharing your story! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Big Tex

      My dad's side of the family is in Texas (I lived there during jr hi and high school)... I know how hard it can be..

      Here in Alabama, the religious fanatics who are anti Obama for those reasons you said above.. They believe he's the anti Christ.. It would be funny if it weren't so damn scary!

      "A liberal is a conservative who's been hugged." ;o)

      by SteelMaggie13 on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:57:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I lived in 'bama for a while (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ssgbryan, SteelMaggie13

    it's awful.

  •  Thanks - Good Diary. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, linx

    thanks for sharing

    Political Expediency: Its The New Black!

    by BentLiberal on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:32:48 PM PDT

  •  I had my own Wal-Mart t-shirt experience (5+ / 0-)

    A middle-aged white guy approached me (a twenty-something white guy) at my rural Texas Wal-Mart and very dramatically pointed at my Obama shirt, saying something about how he himself was a Democrat from Illinois (oh, the credibility!), and that I should know "that guy [Obama] is a RACIST!" My comeback?

    Is that so?

    I wish it had been you instead of me! I learned everything I know about arguing from the Three Stooges, apparently.  (Hopefully I delivered the sarcasm as well as Moe always did.)

    •  My son and I LIKE wearing ours (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fumie, Junior Bug, Abra Crabcakeya

      together and go into places where we get those funny looks.  We just smile and remain pleasant (there is definitely strength in numbers!).  We figure if we just seem like really nice people wearing Obama shirts, they'll have to concede that Obama people are nice!  LOL  

      I also try to remember to be polite driving because I have my car representin' for Obama... Gotta be a good example!  ;o)

      "A liberal is a conservative who's been hugged." ;o)

      by SteelMaggie13 on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:59:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I know what you mean (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        And for us red-staters I think it's important that people simply see that it's okay to be a Democrat here.  Sometimes people are genuinely surprised to see deviation from the status quo.  And equally important is that those of us who do choose to be Democrats know we're not alone.  Flying the flag for morale in hostile territory, I guess! (That's one reason I appreciate your diary so much; it's comforting to know there are other red-staters sharing the same experience, because sometimes those blue-staters just don't understand! ;)

    •  "How so?" works for me. (4+ / 0-)

      I have a cow-orker who is into conspiracy theories, a lot of right-wing militia nutcase conspiracy theories. He's basically paranoid-- terrified of Bush, a "9/11 Truther", but also buys all that 1990's militia and John Bircher "One World Government" and "New World Order" and Illuminati horseshit too, which seems to be resurgent.

      I told him that I'm excited about Obama. He snapped back "Obama's a socialist". I looked at him confused, like he'd just said "up is down!" (because, well, he did). And I said, "How so?" He had no answer. Changed the subject, actually. A ha. I see. Mmm-kay.

      Sometimes I'll say "How is that?", or "How, specifically?" or "What, specifically?". The point is, there's often nothing behind this propaganda, but I like to know specifics. It's so easy to deflate these broad assertions  because usually there's nothing behind them.

      •  what are the next 10 words... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Junior Bug, SteelMaggie13

        Bartlett v Ritchie, and his answer to right wing talking points is OK explain how? the 10 word answer is the tip of the spear in political campaigning but in governing you need the 10 words after that and the 10 words after that.

        Fox spews out those 10 words:

        Ayres, Obama, terrorist, Muslim etc in any order but does not care what comes next.

      •  Thanks, I'll keep that in mind (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I'd actually have been really curious to hear what he said.  It was such a crackpot claim on its face that I was stunned, to tell you the truth (all this time I had no idea I was personally so vulnerable to racial oppression! And by such a nice guy as Obama, no less!).  "How so" should be even easier to get out than what I said, though.

  •  I had so many of these moments in 2004 (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Buck Power, SteelMaggie13

    I had a ton of these confrontations in 2004.  Even lost a few friends.

    I have had 0 confrontations this year.  Even one of my coworkers with kids named Dallas  and Colt, who says that his favorite book is the bible, says that he is leaning towards Obama.

  •  run!!!! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, Antacid
    come to northern california where we aren't clinically insane! or better yet, go move to ohio!
  •  Keep your head up. As you pointed out, I, like (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cali Techie, SteelMaggie13

    you, am proud to actually have an intelligent, thoughtful candidate to support.

    I drove thru Alabama a few years ago and, as a I recall, at one point I heard Hannity on 3 separate radio stations.  It's no wonder they have all sorts of bizarre notions about Obama & the Democrats.

    There will always be ignorant jerks out there.  We'll just have to show the that our candidates & policies are better than the crap that has been shovelled in our direction in 20 of the last 28 years.

    American overseas? Request your ballot at

    by YoyogiBear on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:38:30 PM PDT

  •  My prediction: (2+ / 0-)

    the precentage of the vote that McCain gets will be the exact same percentage of the public that watches FOX news and listens to Rush Limbaugh, and all the other ideologues out there.  These people are brainwashed.

  •  Indiana sometimes not different from Alabama (18+ / 0-)

    When I got the question "Why are you voting for Obama?"  I had an easy one sentence explanation, that sort of laid it all out on the table, "Because I've spent 30 of the last 42 months fighting in Iraq, and he was right about the war from the beginning."  

    It was like a train screeching to a dead halt.  Then they would occassionally say something along the lines of "Well, it's the right thing to do to stop the terrorists."  or "Well, my cousins over there."  

    My reaction to either of those was: "If you're so concerned about the terrorists winning we could use every man and woman we can get.  I'll go to the recruiting office with you right now.  I'm home on leave from Iraq, but I feel it's my duty to ensure we get every good person in the fight."

    You probably won't believe it but I had no takers.  And I did have one question me outside the Wal-Mart in Indiana about my Obama bumper sticker.  It was a little embarassing for him to be taken to task and shown to be a coward in front of wife and kids.

    -6.1,-4.9 religion.

    by mdbyrne on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:42:44 PM PDT

  •  I'm beginning to think the word "socialist"... (4+ / 0-) now just a right wing euphemism for the n-word.

    "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent on things that matter." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

    by Kevinole on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:43:51 PM PDT

    •  None of these words really MEAN anything. They (8+ / 0-)

      are unfocused hate and anger. And fear. Bred of ignorance, often willful ignorance. The kind of ignorance that people like Sarah Palin get their rocks off by exploiting.

      Obama, now more than ever. ¡Sí se puede!

      by flitedocnm on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:54:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  No, it's a euphemism for "Communist" (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cali Techie, SteelMaggie13, sethyeah

      which is a euphemism for "terrorist" or "Muslim", or "traitor" or.... whatever, it's all just name-calling.

      The attempts at McCarthyism are ridiculous. Dude, the Cold War ended almost 20 fucking years ago!!!


      Where the fuck to people get off with "socialist" or "communist" as an epithet?

      A lot of us were ready to call Bush a "fascist", but that's silly too.

      It's kind of like a teenager calling his dad a "Nazi" because he won't let him have the car keys. Maybe dad is in fact an asshole, but "Nazi" is just such a ridiculous stretch that it can't be taken seriously.

      I say, we've had more than enough of "free market" bullshit. The last thing I'm afraid of is socialism.

  •  Should be hard down there in red Alabama (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lexicon, SteelMaggie13

    ...Keep up the good fight!  One day they'll see the light!

    I'm so glad I'm in California....

  •  Roll Tide! GOBAMA! (4+ / 0-)

    I feel your pain up here in north AL!  Although it doesn't seem as bad up here in as much as you don't really see a whole lot of McCain/Bimbo signs around, I'm sure there will be more than a few who will pull the lever for Obama who would admit to it.  As I'm sure there are probably many who will vote for the Penguin who are too embarrassed to advertise it.  Feel free to jump on the Times Daily Forums every now and then and help me futilely try to educate the un-educateable! :)

  •  Don't Worry (3+ / 0-)

    The Old South is a much smaller place than it used to be.

  •  This is real easy. Well, maybe not. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snazzzybird, SteelMaggie13

    Is it that some of these people have a martyr complex, so that unless the country is crashing and burning they feel like they haven't suffered enough?

    Or is it that they (at least those over 50) can't admit the truth about Reagan, Reaganomics and the selling out of our children for the unfulfilled promises of low taxes, short term financial gain and "energy security" through increasing dependence on fossil fuels supplied by "our friends" in places like Saudi Arabia?

    Maybe Rove & co., and those that preceded them, really are, after all, master propagandists with the mob appeal of a Trotsky or a Goebbels.

    The problem is that being moderately intelligent, open-minded people leaves many of us without the ability to even begin to understand what some of these people are thinking.

    No more discussion. It's time for a vote.

  •  I had a similar experience at work today too... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Black Max, SteelMaggie13

    I was in a conversation about this gentleman's "Sedona, Arizona" shirt and I said..."ah..McCain country...and we got into talking politics.

    Well he was saying some really nasty things about Obama...All the nasty Repugnant Talking Points.  I just sighed...and just said "have a great night".

    It is truly sad that people are so closed-minded.  I sure hope they open their eyes and truly see what's going on, instead of being corralled around like blind cattle.  

    One can "HOPE".

    Obama/Biden '08

  •  Courage is a wonderful thing. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Uncle Moji, SteelMaggie13

    You have it. Every time you bear witness to hope, it becomes more real.

    Thank you for all of us. Thank your sister as well.

    I resent the Joe Sixpack thing. I am Jenny Box-Wine.

    by Azubia on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:51:23 PM PDT

  •  You're kicking it, girl. (5+ / 0-)

    I've lived most of my life in the South, and there are a few things I know.

    You will hear this kind of shit that you report just about anywhere, but more so in bright red areas such as the farm belt, eastern California, the Ozarks, the Rockies, and large swatches throughout the South. But you can hear it on Castro Street or in line for tickets at the Met.

    You cannot let it crush your spirit. You know you're right. You know these people are authoritarian, jingoistic, hate-driven assholes who don't understand a damn thing about the freedom they claim to espouse.

    It's tough to argue with them, because they have no real arguments, just talking points they've learned from having them pounded into their flat heads by the Limbaugh-Hannity-FOX axis of blithering fascism. When you beat back the talking points, you run into a wall of screaming, boiling hatred and flat-out lizard-brain racism. It's at this point that you either make some progress (yes, we can! sometimes) or get a fist waved in your face. Or upside your head. You have to make some choices and some assessments before engaging.

    Your Wal-Mart woman actually showed a possibility of being reached. At least she didn't scream at you or worse.

    Being "spring loaded and ready" is exactly the approach to take, unless you have reason to fear for your safety (this is a legitimate concern). Most of these yahoos aren't used to being challenged with facts and strong, rational opinion expressed with confidence and serenity. Their perception of "libruls" is either a flailing, shrieking idiot waving a protest sign and reeking of pot, or a mousy, milquetoasty little nebbish too cowed to speak up. Don't be afraid to be a little "snippy" or "bitchy." Just have confidence in what you're saying and don't rise to their bait. We could all learn a little of Obama's jiu-jitsu.

    It's people like you who are helping turn these red states purple. Go to FiveThirtyEight and count up the states that even two years ago were solidly, hopelessly Republican. I see North Carolina (my state, holla!), Virginia, West Virginia, and Indiana, just with a quick glance. These are either solidly in Obama's camp or on the fence. Look for states with at least a fighting chance of being turned and you find several more. Some of them have Democratic governors for the first time in a generation, or a newly Democratic legislature, or are threatening to send more Democrats than ever before to Congress. It's working. Keep plugging.

  •  A Lot Of My Mom's.. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snazzzybird, SteelMaggie13

    sisters and brothers moved to Birmingham and suburbs in the 60's. They all became very successful, and when I visited in 1974 I was stunned by their devotion to Nixon and saddened by their racism. We still loved them, anyway. This July my Mom had a slight stroke and they've all called frequently to check up on her. The change is amazing! They DESPISE Bush and are all voting for Obama. I don't know about my cousins, but I know Election Day a whole bunch of fired up transplanted Upstate NY Italians are voting our way.

  •  why are so many Americans so stupid? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ssgbryan, quotemstr, SteelMaggie13

    is it lead paint chips eaten since childhood?

    Palin - the soft bigotry of low expectations.

    by JLFinch on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:54:26 PM PDT

  •  Good on you and... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cali Techie, SteelMaggie13

    ...keep up the good fight!

    Oh and 'fist bump' to you too.


  •  To point out something about Wal-Mart (9+ / 0-)

    When did they start treating their customers as potential thieves?

    I was assaulted by a man claiming to be a police officer two weeks ago outside of the local Wal-Mart. Apparently, he thought that I was stealing a vacuum cleaner, which I had clearly paid for. I'm Deaf by the way and I didn't hear the cashier call for me. For some reason, they feel the need to check off receipts (?) and as I'm coming out of the store, this guy corners me and confused, I try to get out of his way. He grabs me and I scream at him "I paid for it! What are you doing???", effectively making a scene in the parking lot.

    Not too long after, a real cop pulls up, discusses it with the cashier, who checks off my receipt, and lets me go. I call the "cop" an asshole and all kinds of obscenities, telling him to get the fuck out of my way as he tries to apologize.

    That my friends, is the last time I ever go to Wal-Mart. I'm not interested in dealing with short-dicked hillbilly retail cops. I've never been treated like this and I don't appreciate being treated as a potential thief.

    Wal-Mart can burn to the ground for all I care and everyone that runs that corporation can go straight to hell.

    Conservatives are close-minded, shallow, superficial people that live in a fantasy world where everything is black and white and there are NO shades of gray.

    by Brad007 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:00:35 AM PDT

    •  Ugh... that totally sucks! (0+ / 0-)

      Yeah.. I find Wal-Mart to be fairly repugnant, which is why I try to do most of my shopping elsewhere.  

      "A liberal is a conservative who's been hugged." ;o)

      by SteelMaggie13 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:09:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  He grabbed you???? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      I'd see an attorney.

      We are all Droogie. F**K the AP

      by wrights on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:11:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Stopping you from going your merry way (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        without a reasonable excuse is called kidnapping in most states.   Don't believe me?  See the O.J. verdict.

        Sarah: You're an idiot. Come home.

        by Endangered Alaskan Dem on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:38:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  He didn't have to grab me (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          I was confused. I thought it was a random thug looking to attack me.

          He had no proof that he was an officer either except for "I'm a police officer".

          Conservatives are close-minded, shallow, superficial people that live in a fantasy world where everything is black and white and there are NO shades of gray.

          by Brad007 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 03:04:11 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not sure how to go about that way (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        And I'm wondering about a statute of limitations and what their side of the story would be.

        However, this incident caused mental harm. I blacked out and couldn't remember what happened immediately afterwards.

        Do I just go to a lawyer or what? What if I don't have a case?

        Conservatives are close-minded, shallow, superficial people that live in a fantasy world where everything is black and white and there are NO shades of gray.

        by Brad007 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 03:03:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Most lawyers will give you (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          ..a free or low cost consultation.  If you don't have a case, no harm done.  If there's money to be made, you typically will pay no fee unless you win a money judgment.  The fact that the lawyer doesn't get paid unless you win makes for a pretty effective screening process, and insures that you won't be chasing a bad case with your own good money.

          "Obama's gonna be president, and there's not a goddamn thing you can do about it. How's that feel?" - Fishgrease

          by roxtar on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 03:45:16 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I stopped going to Wal Mart (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SteelMaggie13, island in alabama

      years ago. I can't remember the last time I actually set foot in one.. probably back when I lived in Florida... many years ago.

      I used to work in retail and it used to be the only time they could stop you on the way out the door is if someone actually witnessed you shoplifting. That apparently is no longer necessary.

      So many impeachable offenses, so little time... -6.0 -5.33

      by Cali Techie on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:26:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I quit spending money at Wal-mart years ago. (7+ / 0-)

      When the self check out lanes came in, I tried them out. I have no problem using these machines. Some technical problems at first but I have not doubt that the technology can become more user friendly.

      But still, I think the machines are going to far. It has crossed a line. And I know that Wal-mart is not the only company using them. But after a few tries I went back to the lane with the live human cashier. When asked if I found everything okay my response was, "Yes, except for cashiers."

      But that was not the reason that I quit spending money at wal-mart. In fact, there are many reasons. But the most important reason is that they are killing jobs and our economy. I am avoiding buying junk made in the far east as often as possible. It is not fair to bring items into the USA that are made with labor that cost pennies on the dollar by people who still live in poverty. It is not fair that there are very little or no environmental regulations to keep these factories from poluting. It is not fair that there are no tarifs to keep the price of products made in the USA competative.

      Take President Bush.... PLEASE!

      by DerAmi on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 01:00:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I bought my vacuum cleaner at a self-checkout (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Abra Crabcakeya, SteelMaggie13

        And apparently there's some bullshit policy where the cashier has to check off receipts? I saw nothing about that. They just assume that I'm walking out with something when they could see clearly that I had purchased it.

        I'm thinking about calling a lawyer but I'm not sure where to start.

        Conservatives are close-minded, shallow, superficial people that live in a fantasy world where everything is black and white and there are NO shades of gray.

        by Brad007 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 03:05:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Great answer. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I occasionally have to shop at Wal Mart (since a lot of other retailers have closed down in their wake), and they always ask if I found everything OK. (I think it's company policy.)

        My standard reply:

        "Yeah, everything except the American made products."

        "Obama's gonna be president, and there's not a goddamn thing you can do about it. How's that feel?" - Fishgrease

        by roxtar on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 03:42:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  aggressive policing is negligence (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      That happened to my son once years ago.  I told him to remain calm and just pray, pray they arrest you, don't you want a big payoff? False imprisonment on false charges would get you money in a lawsuit settlement so fast it'd make your head spin.

      To qualify, I am not a lawyer, and lawsuits are a hassle.  In real life, I know it's hard to remain calm when you're blindsided like that.  But theoretically if you can keep your head, you realize that they are endangering themselves greatly by having aggressive policing with false accusations.  Defamation, damage to your reputation, all that.

    •  HAHAHAHAH I love you! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      You sound just like my boyfriend.  

      Indict, impeach, imprison!

      by AmyVVV on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 11:38:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Lawyer contacted (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Conservatives are close-minded, shallow, superficial people that live in a fantasy world where everything is black and white and there are NO shades of gray.

      by Brad007 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 05:38:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I can't imagine living in a red state (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, linx

    Though I did live in Indiana for two years, but not during a presidential election.

    I live in the Seattle area now.  I've been wearing an Obama/Biden button every day, and I get lots of smiles, and kudos.  And I've encountered canvasers who say, "I see you're registered.  Great!"

    I don't think I've seen one McCain button, or bumper sticker, or yard sign.

    I see Dino Rossi ones, though.  Can't have everything, I guess.  

  •  When I'm baited sometime's I explain that I'm (3+ / 0-)

    voting for Obama because I don't want to vote for the loser. The more I keep my tone very friendly and cheerful the more that comes across to that sort as good hard body shot.Maintaining my cheerful Spock is tough but necessary to a skilled practitioner of schadenfreude.

    This is just to say Forgive us victory tastes delicious so sweet and so cold

    by Dave the Wave on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:02:33 AM PDT

  •  We're here for you (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cali Techie, SteelMaggie13

    You and your sister are not alone. When Obama does a great job as president, it'll be amazing how many people where you live will change.

    There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact. S. Holmes

    by Carnacki on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:08:02 AM PDT

  •  I shared this in a different thread (6+ / 0-)

    but as I said there, I'm tired of the bullshit and no longer willing to get in a fight.

    When a friend of mine said the other day, "He's a black Muslim and he's financed by terrorists!" I just looked at him and said, "Well, if so, he's going to be the first black Muslim financed by terrorists president!"

    Sarah: You're an idiot. Come home.

    by Endangered Alaskan Dem on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:09:09 AM PDT

  •  It's hard. And thank you. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, linx

    I spent today canvassing in Waukesha County, Wisconsin and I was met with much the same attitude everywhere. I commend your efforts and your courage. It is not easy sometimes, and we need to make sure that we as a community recognize our fellow foot-soldiers who live in rural, red communities. You keep the hope alive and do more than you will ever realize in keeping the blue flame burning. I KNOW that your courage offers inspiration to others in your community who believe what you believe but are too afraid to say so...

    I live just north of Chicago so to go from such positivity into the den of negativity was jarring. It is getting ugly out there now and actually reminds me of the days back in '92 when I had people swearing at me and threatening me with violence when I was out in support of Clinton.

    I am back at it tomorrow, however. Kenosha, Wisconsin...and then over to Michigan next weekend.


    And God Bless you Maggie!

    "History supplies little beyond a list of those who have accommodated themselves with the property of others." - Voltaire

    by Robert Sandy on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:09:31 AM PDT

  •  You simply have to accept the fact (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ssgbryan, SteelMaggie13

    that there are those you cannot change. It's similar to those with alcohol or substance abuse problems, they have to bottom out in some way before attaining a moment of clarity.

  •  You're not 'on the right side'. (0+ / 0-)

    You're not on the wrong side, either. As a progressive Democrat who does not support Obama, I am getting rather unnerved with the stalwart attitudes of Obama supporters. I've noticed it, especially in naïve youths for a rather long time now.

    McCain and Palin offer a programme for America/the world that you have every right to disagree with, but these questions are not answered with a simple right or wrong. Be humble about the election.

    Your movement is positive? Fine. That doesn't make it any better than other movements. And by positing such a  hope-filled movement, you are intentionally degrading opposition movements. When I see statements like the above ('hopeful' etc), I think negative criticism is valid, because those caught up in such flighty rhetoric are not operating within a reality-based political sphere.

    Please note: I'm not criticizing the notion of supporting of Obama, but I think much of his campaign is driven by improper support structures and messages.

  •  Well here's your first mistake..... (3+ / 0-)

    So I walked into Wal-Mart tonight in red state Alabama.. Grrrrrr

    Shop Union, Work Union!

    •  pretty hard down there... (3+ / 0-)

      Wal mart is just about it in a lot of places...but if you can find a Costco you'd be better off. By the way I'm in NJ and don't wear Obama stuff. I've had shouting matches in public with elderly veterans in I don't argue anymore. No one who thinks hard about the situation this country is in can vote for Palin ( I always say this because mcCain will not last much longer, it is plainly obvious )By the way this is another rason why I would never move south, and research kinda bears out that people are tending to move to areas where folks think like they do. Only places changing seem to be Va. and maybe NC. Not sure trends in Co and NV are permanent or just because repugs have been that bad...and we still don't know how those states will pan out. When I hear this stuff, and I do hear it even up north, I tend to think there really is some kinda Bradley effect, but then I think well these folks are not afraid to come right out and say things. Keep in mind I had repub friends who called Kerry a motherfucker and look how the right ridiculed him. They even called him "French."

      •  I disagree about places not changing -the fact (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        that there are a lot of us here in Alabama , not Black , who are absolutely not going to even consider voting for anyone but Barack Obama for POTUS is an enormous change. Remember this is the only state carried by Barry Goldwater in 1964 , IIRC.

  •  Revenge = Obama wins, Dems gain seats (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sable, Palafox, SteelMaggie13, dwayne

    and proceed to implement their "Radical Socialist Agenda" (woo hoo!)--and these inbred morons have to suck on it for the next 4-8+ years. Works for me.

    And I assume that every nutjob who complains about "creeping socialism" is willing to dissolve social security and Medicare? Yeah, I didn't think so, either.

    To the GOP, change means doing a 360.

    by kovie on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:33:25 AM PDT

  •  About a year and a half ago (2+ / 0-)

    I moved from Oakland, CA to Marsha Blackburn's TN-7 district.
    I know what you are talking about....


  •  Pretty amazing how the Dems get the blame for (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, linx

    the mortgage mess. Justlike they are blamed for the Vietnam loss. You'd think Richard nixon was a Democrat. Here in NJ in an office full of psychologists and social workers, we outnumber the right wingers.It's my position that a gov't employee in a union with a pension has no good reason to ever support  republicans ( though Corzine is doing his best to alienate us in NJ). But after the intro of palin a few of the righties ( there are mostly women where I work )were smitten, and we lefties criticised Palin long and loudly. One rightie finally got disgusted and asked us to please stop, she couldn't take it  until Novmeber, and all our talking kept her from being able to work. I took the high road and said sure, i'll respect your wishes and we'll talk elsewhere, but the boss put the stop to that ( she's a republican ) and said we shouldn't be talking politics at work! Imagine, people in education talking about politics!

  •  WOW (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, linx

    I grew up in Montgomery, went to U of A and feel your pain--I emailed my brother that I was excited about being for Obama and haven't heard from him since...whatever--

    Hang in there--the south shall rise again
    FOR OBAMA!  Yes we can!

    Dogs have owners--cats have staff.

    by bamajunky on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:37:03 AM PDT

  •  exact opposite in cali (0+ / 0-)

    SEE i cant do the red state america thing in california your harassed if your not liberal

    "We need a President who can face the threats of the future, Not keep grasping at the ideas of the past".

    by brownsfan on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:43:00 AM PDT

    •  Not true. Go to eastern or far northern... (3+ / 0-)

      California, and it's filled with Repuglians. Those who live in the "coastal fantasylands" of liberalism, seem to forget this fact. Those of us who are forced to live in the "red areas" still have to fight, day in, day out.

      ..better that money be spent in the U.S. building windmills than squandered in the ME for Bush-McCain to tilt at them. -andydoubtless

      by Hornito on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:26:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You obviously haven't... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SteelMaggie13, Always Thinkin

      ...been in Orange, Kern or Riverside counties, among others.

      And it's "you're." And punctuation is your friend, too.

      Lousy Smarch weather!

      by FishBiscuit on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:41:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  My sister-in-law, who is a conservative said (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      something like what you're saying now. She is on a few "mommy" blogs and says that she feels like she can't say she's a conservative because people ask her things like, "how in the world can you be?", etc.

      I said I was sorry that she felt 'harrased' but that she had to remember that a few short years ago, those of us were against going to war in Iraq were called traitors, unpatriotic, terrorist-lovers, and on and on. We had the VP and members of congress calling us for treason - with the penalty for treason being execution. So, I said, you have to excuse us, but most liberals got put through much much worse. She did agree that what I was saying was true.

  •  Even in California... (3+ / 0-)

    It's not confined to the red states.  I live in an upscale neighborhood in San Diego, in a heavy Republican district.  These are educated, intelligent people, many former military officers.  It's impossible to discuss politics with them.  They immediately go off with the Fox News talking points, even to the point of blaming the economy on the Democrats (everything was good until the Democrats took over Congress).  They just bury their heads in the sand, ignore the facts, and spew their garbage.

    •  It's stunning when SMART people (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      chgobob, DerAmi

      are McCain/Palin supporters.  Somehow you can almost dismiss the low information folks.. But come on.. Those with educations and brains SHOULD know better! LOL

      "A liberal is a conservative who's been hugged." ;o)

      by SteelMaggie13 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:46:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I treat it as a character flaw (4+ / 0-)

        Maybe it's mean of me, but no one ever accused me of being that softhearted wrt anything but my politics ;)  And IME, smart GOPers are really just incredibly smug and self-satisfied; in the words of Jane Austen, they're disposed to "think well of themselves, and meanly of others."  Conservative philosophy allows them to portray those with less economic success as inherently inferior, while [somehow] at the same time also allowing them to portray their own successes as bitter struggles anyone could win if they only tried hard enough.  Never have figured those rather contradictory attitudes out, but the net result is that I don't trust smart Republicans as humans, nor do I respect dumb ones as citizens.

        "Conservative principles" are marketing props used by the Conservative Movement to achieve political power, not actual beliefs. -Glenn Greenwald

        by latts on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 01:17:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  The Republican Base never intents to own their (3+ / 0-)

      own shit. never. they are the worst kind of neonuts. Look - Reagonics is a disaster. Tell them that. deregulate and privatize everything. and this is what ya get. Wall Street and Republican ideology and governance has got us to this day. It took the 40 year cycle of Goldwater's defeat that started the shift to the party of haters we see now. The GOP line-up Nixon/Reagon/Bush/Bush to destroy America and what we'll always no now were the best days spoiled by their destructive ideology and way of never addressing any issues. Slogans - "Morning in America" Which really meant - the Covert Heads of teh World will pilfer all the nations of the world. This very moment. When you listen to c-span and they are taking the calls from the Dem Repub and other line inevitably the Republican line gets massive calls wanting to talk about social issues. SOCIAL ISSUES! It's maddening.
      These folks are so entrenched in a fog of decept-o-media they're handlers (The GOP Machine) feed them. Crazy times folks. I really believe we are in the beginning......OTE

      ObamaNation 2009!..... Rebecca > (4 coveted City-At-Large Council Seat)..... Gavin Newsom Governor California 2010......

      by AustinSF on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:58:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  We used to live in San Diego (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      People think Blue when they think about California, but San Diego and Orange County are as Red as they come.

      Lots of red state people grow up, join the Navy, get stationed in San Diego (or Miramar Air Station, or Camp Pendleton), and settle there. San Diego is very Republican.

      Randy "Duke/Tail Hook" Cunningham was our representative in the House for years. Ugh.

  •  It's interesting in Ohio (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    orangeuglad, SteelMaggie13

    Because it's pretty split. So there's people where I work who are staunchly republican and who say Obama is a terrible socialist, and there's about as many if not more Democrats who are rooting for Obama, and undecideds leaning one way or the other way or no way at all.

    OEF/OIF vet
    I've been called a left-wing extremist because I absolutely oppose torture. I can live with that.

    by jabbausaf on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:44:39 AM PDT

    •  I guess "socialism" is code for "Black" now (5+ / 0-)

      because when I checked my absentee ballot here in NJ, the Socialist Workers Party had their own candidate there. Seems if obama were a socialist they wouldn't be running their own might stick that in their faces!

      •  No, cause my coworkers and I are almost all white (10+ / 0-)

        and we still get labeled "socialists".

        Socialism nowadays means "anybody to the left of Rush Limbaugh". Now, an African-American socialist, that would be a "black radical". These clowns hold up Lieberman as a good centrist "Democrat", and anybody to the left of him is considered extremely liberal.

        It's fucking ridiculous.

        OEF/OIF vet
        I've been called a left-wing extremist because I absolutely oppose torture. I can live with that.

        by jabbausaf on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 01:29:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I think the code is for "other" (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Abra Crabcakeya, SteelMaggie13

        There are a lot of racists in the Republican party, but I think they're really built on a core of Xenophobes. They don't just hate blacks, or hispanics, or Jews, or Liberals - they hate anyone who is 'different'. They hate "people who are not like us".

        There's "us" and "them" - all this code is simply labeling people as "others".

        Their hate is far broader and multi-faceted than just one thing, like color, faith or political persuasion.

        The reich-wing radio hate machine and Pravda TV (Faux news) keep this hate at a constant burn, and every four years they turn up the dials to support the Republican election play book (which consists of  screaming that the Democratic candidate "is not like us").

        This time around, the xenophobes are additionally fearful because of the economy. Their actions are always based on fears. Since they're extra-scared, they're even less in control than usual.

        This time around, the fear card was over played so often by the Bush Administration that the non-xenophobes are less apt to be influenced by it. A lot of these rational people are lining up on to vote for Obama.

        This time around, the Democratic candidate and campaign understand the Republican play book and are effectively countering it.

        This time around, the hate machine is losing, and has doubled down the hate mongering, insinuations and lies.

        This time around, the xenophobes are losing it and acting out in the Palin rallies.

        This time around, the Republican campaign is losing control of the xenophobes.

        What we're seeing is the cleaving of the xenophobe and non-xenophobe elements of the Republican constituency. McCain is trying to hold it all together, but is failing to control it - this reflects on his poor judgment, and his inability to lead.

        In any case, as ugly as racism is, I think the hatred at the core of what we're seeing is deeper and uglier still. But, when it is made obvious, rational people turn away from it.

  •  Remember Ghandi - this means we are winning. (6+ / 0-)

    First they make fun and light of you....

    then they....

    Then they fight you..
    Then you win.

    ObamaNation 2009!..... Rebecca > (4 coveted City-At-Large Council Seat)..... Gavin Newsom Governor California 2010......

    by AustinSF on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:45:26 AM PDT

  •  great job (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, linx

    i know it's hard but keep you jin up

    "John McCain likes to say that he'll follow bin Laden to the Gates of Hell - but he won't even go to the cave where he lives."

    by nase48 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:50:48 AM PDT

  •  Steel yourself, Maggie, (3+ / 0-)

    as you say, you're supporting your candidates because of positive things.  The woman had the gall to actually question hope?  I'd have asked her that.  And  then in the next breath, asked, "why?"  You know, why she's supporting that ticket, specifically requesting that she tell me why she was voting for them that didn't involve why she wasn't voting for Obama.  Or to not use any negatives, in general.  Maybe they'd have less hate in their hearts if they could actually, you know, be hopeful about what Mc/P is offering.

    GOP Ticket '08: Mc and "Oh, Jeeze." Yup, yup!

    by conlakappa on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 01:02:50 AM PDT

  •  Maikes me really appreciate MD (and VA) (3+ / 0-)

    I live in suburban Baltimore, and yesterday afternoon, I was leaving the local liquor store wearing my Obama t-shirt.  This white guy, probably about 75 years old, sees it, and says, "Obama, huh?"  I was afraid this was going to be one of your conversations, but then he gives me a thumbs up and says, "I really hope he gets it.  We need a change, and it sure isn't McCain."

    We then started talking, and it immediately became clear that although he's voted for quite a few Republicans over the years, he's become totally fed up, and is more than ready to throw the bums out.  He said, "I'm not sure Obama will be able to get everything done that he wants to do, but if he gets any of it done, it'll be better than McCain."  And then, when I mentioned that I'd once admired McCain and was shocked at what he'd become, this guy says, "He's OLD.  He's only a couple of years younger than me, and I've been too old to be President for a lot of years know.  The difference betweens us is that I know it."

    And it's not just deep-blue Maryland.  A couple of months ago, my wife and I stopped at a gas station/convenience store in rural Virginia, and the young woman behind the counter (who was white), notices my wife's Obama button and says in her Virginia accent, "I sure hope Obama does it.  I think we really need somebody like him.  I worry about my kids' future the way things are going."

    Keep the faith!  Change is coming, even if it may take longer to reach Alabama than some other places.

    Suggested new McCain ad tagline: "I'm John McCain, and I approved of these lies."

    by leevank on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 01:04:06 AM PDT

    •  It IS a wonderful moment when (0+ / 0-)

      you meet someone you NEVER expect to be an Obama supporter and you find out they are.  

      I'm glad to report I've had some GOOD weeks in Alabama in that regard as well.

      Somehow I love it when the old white guys are for Obama!

      "A liberal is a conservative who's been hugged." ;o)

      by SteelMaggie13 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 01:08:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  As an old white guy, I appreciate that! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        My wife wants a t-shirt saying, "Old white women for Obama!"

        Suggested new McCain ad tagline: "I'm John McCain, and I approved of these lies."

        by leevank on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 01:10:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  A funny story from the primary (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          liz dexic, SteelMaggie13

          The weekend before the primary, I was canvassing in West Philly.  A young black guy sees my clipboard, but couldn't see my t-shirt from his angle, and says, "Are you campaigning for Hillary?"  I turned around so he could see the writing on my t-shirt and said, "Obviously not; why did you think I was?"  (I KNEW why, but just wondered what he'd say.)

          He said, obviously a little embarrassed, "Well, you kind of look like her."  I responded, "Well, I'm not a woman and she's not fat, so I guess it's the fact that we're both white."  He indicated that was indeed the case and I told him about all the virtually all-white states that Obama had won (beginning with Iowa, where I spent a month).  He was clearly impressed that so many white people were willing to support a candidate whose skin wasn't white.

          Suggested new McCain ad tagline: "I'm John McCain, and I approved of these lies."

          by leevank on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 01:17:02 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I could make her one! (0+ / 0-)

          "A liberal is a conservative who's been hugged." ;o)

          by SteelMaggie13 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 01:17:55 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Why? Because I love my country (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snazzzybird, MKSinSA, SteelMaggie13

    And it breaks my heart to see my country doing so badly because of the incompetent leadership we've been getting for the past eight years. It angers me that the Republicans have put out people who are even more incompetent to take over.

    I love my country, I know it can do better, and that's why I want the people who can't handle the job to get out of the way and make room for people who can.

    That's why.

    Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    by Buckeye Hamburger on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 01:06:49 AM PDT

  •  makes me wonder why.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Always Thinkin

    General Sherman stopped so soon.....he had a lot more land to cover....

  •  Socialist huh? (2+ / 0-)

    Terrible thing I guess the way they seem to be so afraid of socialism.

    But don't touch their Social Security. Don't mess with their government ran water company, their tax-payer funded fire departments.

    When did they get their roads paved with the free market? I suppose if it were really a free market they would only get that road paved when they paid for it - you know, because there was a "demand" for it?

    Uninformed voters (a.k.a. low intelligence voters) are the easiest to scare. Just tell them something is bad and scary. They won't know any better.

    Take President Bush.... PLEASE!

    by DerAmi on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 01:08:19 AM PDT

  •  Why do you shop at Wal Mart - Dems Dont (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    quantumspin, SteelMaggie13

    After all Walmart has done - superficial efforts at diversity dont make up for labor exploitation.

    No Dem should EVER shop at sprawlmart.

    "It stinks." - Jay Sherman

    by angry liberaltarian on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 01:09:38 AM PDT

  •  Who says older southern voters are voting McCain? (3+ / 0-)
  •  BOYCOTT WAL-MART!!! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ivan, orangeuglad, SteelMaggie13, sethyeah

    Seriously? Wal-Mart? Could you find a better company than Wal-Mart that offers products to folks for less money than other retailers?

    •  LOL.. I know, I know... (0+ / 0-)

      I said at the outset that I try NOT to go to Wal-Mart.. Just occasionally I find the need to go.  I always feel a little guilty afterward though, if that helps my case any ;o)

      "A liberal is a conservative who's been hugged." ;o)

      by SteelMaggie13 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 01:43:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  In some communities, WalMart is the only option (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Hornito, LynneK, SteelMaggie13

        unless you want to use a tank of gas to drive to the next town.  I would have to drive a 5 hour round trip through the mountain roads populated by large rutting mammals this time of year to avoid going to the WalMart(I am  Colorado right now)...I try to use local stores, but sometimes it is not possible.

  •  At least she asked why. Golden opportunity to (4+ / 0-)

    debrainwash Fox News watchers.  

    Tell them that Fox News lies,and the Repubs lie.  Tell them that if she is middle class, she should not vote against her own best interests: healthcare, which the Repubs are making less affordable and harming businesses by not helping them with the costs; jobs, which the Repubs are shipping overseas and lowering wages; war, which the Repubs lied us into & has cost hundreds of thousands their lives & limbs & us $3 trillion; our bill of rights, which the Repubs have shredded by spying on us, taking away habeas corpus, etc.

    Tell them that losing their health care, like 37 million Americans, is more likely to harm them than any other fearful thing.  They should be concerned about that for their own well being more than anything else.

    Tell them to listen to what Obama has to say.  Ask them whether they listened to the debates.

    BTW, you are very brave to wear a hope monger t shirt in a Walmart in Alabama.

    Seriously, be careful.

    Information is the currency of democracy. ~ T.J.

    by CIndyCasella on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 01:41:34 AM PDT

    •  I am curious and want to ask (0+ / 0-)

      do you pay your healthcare?

    •  Safety concerns... (0+ / 0-)

      Yes.. I know they are real.  This past week has opened my eyes to the anger and the ease with which McCain/Palin and surrogates have been able to stoke the fire.  

      I guess I COULD face some danger, but if they confront me to my face, they'll have a tiger by the tail!

      Thanks for your comments ;o)  

      It's been such a great night!

      "A liberal is a conservative who's been hugged." ;o)

      by SteelMaggie13 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 01:47:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Maggie, yesterday, I was given an Obama/Biden (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        sticker while watching a Columbus Day parade by a local Obama office marching in the parade, and I slapped it on my blouse.

        I forgot that I was wearing it, and I live in a blue state.  

        I got a lot of positive feedback, but I also got a few very dirty looks...I'd say really hateful looks, which surprised me, because I was smiling, as it was a glorious warm day.

        Later, I realized it was my sticker that riled them up.

        When I read this diary, I thought how incredibly brave it was to wear that t shirt in Sweet Home Alabama.  (I love the music to that song, but the words and the rebel flag waving scare me).

        Information is the currency of democracy. ~ T.J.

        by CIndyCasella on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 08:54:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  easy answer now: Why O? He's better in a crisis. (6+ / 0-)

    Even the most diehard McCain supporters have to acknowledge he's come off as panicked, uneven, unsteady, and zigzagged back and forth in the past few weeks. You can also tell them that you think Obama's going to surround himself with the right team to handle problems when everyone knows McCain has just signed on alot of ex-Bush people and look where those people got us.  Besides which, most people will also acknowledge "Being President in a world like we've got now takes so much out of a person, it's really a younger person's job.  I'm not convinced Sarah Palin is ready to be President.  If something happened to Obama, I think Joe Biden would be ready.

    But finally I'd always go with this attitude when you're dealing with cantankerous people obviously looking for an argument- 'I feel good about who I'm supporting, and I guess you must feel good about who  you're supporting, so let's just leave it at that."


    Why am I voting for Barack Obama? I'm voting for him because of the failed leadership of the Bush Administration and the Republican Party. Look at the record - unemployment is higher today than on the day Bill Clinton left office. The stock market is lower today than on the day Bill Clinton left office. When Clinton left office, the federal debt was 5 trillion dollars, today it is 10 trillion. We went from substantial budget surpluses, to huge budget deficits. They've wrecked our economy and sent our foreign policy into chaos. We are further away from peace in the Mid-East than we were in 2000 and Iran and North Korea are emboldened and stronger than ever. And 7 years later, they have yet to catch Osama bin Laden, the man who murdered 3,000 Americans on September 11th. Add the disastrous response to Hurricane Katrina, the inability to make any progress on our health care crisis and you have a record of COMPLETE AND TOTAL FAILURE. Now, perhaps you think that President Bush was just an innocent bystander to all this havoc that has befallen our nation. Perhaps the presidency is just an empty vessel with no power and Bush has been the scapegoat. But if that is the case, then why are you so worried about Barack Obama being President? President Bush had no power, right? But see, you're wrong. The President does fix the agenda in this country and the only ones to blame for the current mess we're in is George Bush and the Republican Party. THAT'S WHY I'M VOTING FOR BARACK OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRATS.


  •  You stood your ground.. be proud (4+ / 0-)

    It can be very scary to proudly represent your beliefs in a hostile environment - and back it up with positive, upbeat argument, in the face of all negativity.

    You did more good than you realize, and I don't care if you're a woman or a man - YOU'VE GOT COJONES!

    "I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords..."

    by pawlr on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 02:33:15 AM PDT

  •  This is how bad it is down here (6+ / 0-)

    in the south.  My sons worked the Obama office here in our town all day yesterday for the first time ever.  I called them every hour just to be sure they were okay.

    We're in a huge paradigm shift here, folks, and the haters are freaking out.  I can't stop thinking about the supporter at the McCain rally who said to McCain,

    "We are all STUNNED to be in this position right now..."

    They never thought this could ever happen in their lifetime, and they are reeling at Obama's numbers right now.  I cannot tell you how absolutely thrilling it is to be a part of this shift in consciousness, but it doesn't keep me from fearing those that are terrified of making the shift with us.

    "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." Mahatma Gandhi

    by Shelley99 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 02:37:48 AM PDT

  •  Love your diary! (3+ / 0-)

    I think your general strategy is good, and it is immensely valuable to promote your candidate where they do not like him, that is where you can have an effect! A possible answer to the 'Why' question would be IMHO:
    "because he is the last, best hope for this country, which I love dearly." The 'why not' is ok, but too easily dismissable as cheap retort. So, not hitting with the exact opposite statement, but with another angle, is probably more efficient.

    And I love it that presumably quite a few other customers didi not have a chance but to listen to your exchange!

  •  Also Going on in Alabama (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    quaoar, Apphouse50, SteelMaggie13

    On Friday.

    And this, from Saturday.

    Not all's bad.


    "We in the gloam, old buddy," he said, "We definitely right in the middle of it." -Larry Brown

    by BenGoshi on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 03:45:21 AM PDT

    •  And have you noticed (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      that negative ads that Mike Rogers is running against Josh Seagall in the AL-03 race?

      Rogers has ads that scream out  "TOO YOUNG AND LIBERAL" in huge type. He must be terrified because he's going nuclear on Seagall.

      Things are actually looking better down here this year than they have in a long time. Bobby Bright might actually win in AL-02.

      If Seagall, who had no name recognition whatsoever, even comes close this year you can expect a heavyweight to take on Rogers in 2010.

      A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having // Swords Crossed

      by quaoar on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 10:29:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Sympathizer (4+ / 0-)

    I can totally relate to your story. I have relatives in Alabama and the attitude is simply appalling and ignorant in general. Why would a state get MORE RED after a Bush term with the collapse of the financial system and a 20% drop in retirement income, yadda yadda, etc. etc.? What other answer could it be except for racism?

    These people could be sitting in their own rubble, one of their kids dead in combat from fighting a "war that should never have been waged", after their city is bombed in retaliation from Iran, a REAL THREAT with a McCain presidency and they would still be voting Republican...Wierd. Don't get it; never will. I can only be forever grateful that I got out of the South for college and breath a deep sigh of relief that I "rescued myself". The level of ignorance is nauseating and, quite frankly, disgusting beyond compare.

  •  I grew up in Alabama in the 1960s, (5+ / 0-)

    I attended a preschool in the projects in 1964, the only white child in a sea of African-American faces, because my mother, a 29-year old from Tidewater, VA, volunteered there. We've never talked about that -- I guess we should, because I still have such awe over her commitment. I, of course, was too young to know what was going on all over the state of Alabama and all over the South that year, but my parents surely knew, and they stood up to do the right thing.

    In 1966, I had an Atticus & Scout moment. A bunch of us kids were (unsupervised!) roaming around our church, while our parents attended a meeting. (Kind of odd that we were unsupervised... usually Scotty, our church's African American custodian -- who attended the church with his family -- was with us.) Anyway, that day we were alone, and we were peeking under closed doors in the building. Inside the nursery was an African American caregiver, holding a child. Chuckie, one of the kids with us, pointed and said, "There's a n***". I had never heard the word before. We all tried the word on for size.

    Just at that moment, no sooner had the word escaped our lips, my brother and I were hoisted into the air, by the scruffs of our necks. We instantly found ourselves at eyelevel with our very, very angry father. "I NEVER want to hear that word coming from your lips," said he. "WE are not people who talk that way. WE are not people who treat others that way."

    I learned early on what kind of people WE were -- and I am still proud to be one of THOSE people. Though I no longer live in Alabama, I am proud of the heritage of tolerance and race-blindness I learned from my parents, who, in their own quiet way, lived a revolution in that decade.

    I am delighted to vote for the best candidate, regardless of race or gender or orientation... and, this year, it's THAT one!!

    Obama/Biden 2008

    •  Your father was a fine man... (4+ / 0-)

      ...same for your mother.

      My parents, right in the heart of New York City, were a different matter. My father was an NYPD patrolman who spent his early career in Harlem, and most of the 60's in Brooklyn. What he saw on the streets and in the homes in Harlem was horrifying to him. Drugs, physical violence, domestic abuse -- things that go on everywhere, but, sadly seem more pronounced in neighborhoods where poverty reigns. During the riots in Brooklyn in the 60's, he was shot, poisoned, and had his kidney punched so badly he eventually lost it. His best friend, another cop, was leaning over the railing of the boardwalk at Coney Island while on duty, talking with another cop, and both were shot in the head and killed by a guy who came up behind them. Most of the "perps" my father saw and experienced were black because of where he was assigned, and he never got past the point where he connected all African-Americans to something terrible.

      My mother watched him go off every day, wondering if he'd make it home. In the 60's, particularly, that was not being melodramatic, that was life for a cop's wife in cities like New York.

      Of the two of them, my father had far more self-control when it came to his racial bias. My mother has let the "n" word slip far too many times, particularly for someone whose favorite cable TV station is EWTN. But both of them had their minds molded in another time and their biases solidified because of the fear they lived with every day.

      I know how it feels to have an involuntary reflex kick in when I hear someone running up behind me, particularly at night. I was once walking across the street to my apartment through the parking lot of the supermarket across the street, when 4 black youths ran up behind me, surrounded me, shoved me around, threatened to blow my head off, and grabbed my (practically empty) purse. That was in 1974, and to this day the sound of someone running up behind me sends a momentary chill through me. When I see who it is, it doesn't matter that it was someone black, white, anything. It's the sound. I've given up fighting it. But I've never spent every day of my career in an environment where my life was threatened, so I cut my father some slack (he at least tried to keep it controlled), and even my mother (though I'm less tolerant of her).

      But the people who have spent their whole lives comfortable in their existence, glaring at televisions in their ticky-tacky houses, having their and their children's thoughts be molded by the Fox News and Sarah Palins of this world disgust me. You know who I'm talking about -- the ones who have lived in "safe" communities (meaning, for them, no minorities), had their little jobs to go to, their little white churches, their neat little worlds, and who wring their hands at the Rotary Club and the beauty parlor and the WalMart over this socialistic colored fella who comes off like an intellectual but who they think is an Arab Muslim affirmative action beneficiary who will have us all on food stamps. They are the lowest form of life to me, and someday, when Wall Street and the GOP legacy has done them in, too, they may want sympathy from me. They won't get it.

      And their leaders, the ones who fan the flames every day and twice on Sunday, who cheer George Bush, John McCain, Sarah Palin, and the pack these creeps run with, like Kos, I want to see them demoralized, their bubbles burst, their parades rained on for eternity. I'm pissed as hell and don't care who knows it anymore.

      Sorry for running on so -- sometimes I can't stop myself, but I am sick to death of these people, and proud as hell of those who wear Obama shirts into WalMart and hold their own with their neighbors, their fellow churchgoers, their accountants and their meter readers and their car mechanics and their cashiers and their sheriffs.

      Your parents did you a great service. We should all be that lucky. Thanks for your post.

      Will the last one out of democracy please turn out the lights?

      by Apphouse50 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 04:39:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It is so much easier being an Obama supporter (5+ / 0-)

    in a blueish state.  I am living in Colorado right now, but from South Carolina, and here in this little mountain town most people are for Obama, no signs of support of McCain anywhere.  All of my friends here are Obama supporters, signs everywhere, lots and lots of enthusiasm.  The McCain supporters are quiet, and don't advertise it. The only time I feel a bit out of place wearing my Obama stuff in Colorado is on my rare visits to WalMart, and it might as well be SC.

    In SC, most of my inlaws are McCain voters, Fox news lovin', Rush Limbaugh listening people... if you are white, you are assumed to be voting for McCain, people stare and judge when they see my Obama bumper stickers, sometimes saying, "you're not voting for him, are you!!!".  It takes a lot of guts to go against the grain in the South, to take the hits, to get the comments, to think for yourself, to stand up to peer or family pressure.  

    I think about the white people who stood up for civil rights with their black brothers and sisters in the 60's in the South and wonder at their courage.  I feel a tiny bit connected with those pioneers when I wear my Obama pin to the grocery store in SC, or park my car laden with Obama stickers next to a redneck truck in a parking lot, or when I drive slowly by a group of good old boys as they stare at my Obama car and laugh...

    I also have a Purple Heart license tag and Vietnam Vet stickers(thanks to my husband), so I dare them to say anything.  

    I think of Atticus Finch in "To Kill a Mockingbird", wiping his face with his handkerchief after the racist thug spit on him, and how he retained his dignity, refusing engagement..  Obama reminds me of Atticus Finch, by the way, and maybe one of the reasons I admire him so much.

    Extremely evolved behavior. Just imagine that quality in a president.

  •  This is a vote AGAINST KARL ROVE and the owner of (5+ / 0-)

    Fox News Rupert Murdoh and Paul Wolfawitz and Bremer and Kissinger and Rumsfeld and George Schultz and Condi "Chevron" Rice and it is a vote for America.

    Want Wall Street cleaned up Barack Obama? Then send Ralph Nader in there as SEC rules writer.

    I'd vote Democratic is they were running a bowling ball.

    The neocons? Those that imprison by lies must be sent to prison by the truth.

  •  Just ask them questions. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snazzzybird, SteelMaggie13, Loose Fur

    If your candidates have such a good plan, why is their campaign attacking my candidate's character? Where's your candidate's plan? What is your candidate going to do to get us out of this mess we are in, threaten anyone who disagrees with character assasination? Is that what your candidate means by reaching across the aisle?

    Don't argue. Ask questions. Many many questions. Plant them where you can.  

    As if things could get worse without getting better.

    by A Voice on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 04:17:16 AM PDT

  •  You said twice something about "You had to work (6+ / 0-)

    on that," like what you're thinking and doing is something to be ashamed of.

    Girl, you got nuttin' to be ashamed of.  On the contrary, you're letting your smiling heart heal the world.  
    It's so screwed up, though, that it's going to take years of all of us working at this healing to even make a dent in all this negativity, racism, bigotry, hypocrisy, and ignorance.

    Let that song in your heart never end.  You've been silent too long.  And, besides that... you have a beautiful song to sing.

  •  Keep up the "HOPE"... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, Loose Fur

    Things worth fighting for... are never easy.    

  •  Maggie, my sister in Alabama feels like (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, Loose Fur, alexa100

    you do, too. It is hard for her to come to grips with being surrounded by so many people who feel so entitled to all the power, forever, and simultaneously just won't think about the issues objectively or rationally.

    Good luck! I also live in a red state, and do not have the courage to put an Obama sticker on my car. I need that car, and can't afford to replace a lot of glass in it.

    The responses you are getting sound exactly like Limbaugh/Hannity/Levin hate radio listeners.

    There isn't much you can say to those folks except to suggest to them to go to one of the fact checking websites, since the info they are getting is self-serving to the GOP and incorrect.

  •  We've already got "Socialism" (5+ / 0-)

    Socialism for big business.

    CHRISTIAN, n. One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor. A. Bierce

    by irate on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 04:31:02 AM PDT

  •  My Relatives in Alabama are a Lost Cause (6+ / 0-)

    First understand that despite the venting I am about to do, Alabama is a beautiful state, with some really good people who live there. I was born and grew up and went to Birmingham-Southern College there before I fled to graduate school never to return except for annual visits to relatives and friends. I have aunts and uncles and cousins I still love and visit. As does my wife.

    But I am fed up with ignorance that is essentially a cause of evil, and I must vent.

    I have tried emailing my relatives and friends info and links to rational, factual articles on Obama's record, on McCain's, on the Palin and the hatred she is engendering at her appearances.

    THEY WILL NOT EVEN READ IT!! They delete it unread.

    These are the ignorant, bigoted, low-information voters who deal in the narrowest racist stereotypes and fundie religious fears. They watch Faux News almost exclusively, believe everything they see on it, and think Bill O'Reilly is an exemplar of religious morality.

    What do you do with someone whose religious intelligence is so narrow she rejects a gift of an anthropomorphic comic set in feudal Japan for her son because the characters refer to their feudal lord as, well, 'Lord'. That might confuse his religious training. No. Not made up. Actual, true story. Never mind the comic teaches honor, duty, and honesty, and is incredibly values oriented.

    What do you do with that kind of thinking? Or total lack thereof?

    They DO NOT POSSESS fundamental critical thinking skills. They deal in catch phrases and buzz words and code words to hide their racism and hatred while keeping it alive. They pass around demeaning lists of one-liner questions and accusations directed at Obama WITHOUT ANY SUPPORTING EVIDENCE, just leading questions that imply he is a terrorist, and Arab, you name it. Everything they say is taken whole as an already, known fact shared among fellow believers, hint hint, wink wink, nudge nudge, no explanation or defense required. This is the classic gestalt behavior pattern of the old line racism I grew up in the midst of. It is accepted as gospel truth, unquestioned, a shared understanding of "the way the world is".

    When confronted with evidence, they WILL NOT READ IT.

    Instead, in one case, they call my wife on the phone and tell her to ask me to not send them anymore emails, they are just deleting them unread.

    They do not have the intelligence, insight, or courage to confront, analyze, criticize... you name it, the list is long. They are pretty much a lost cause.

    I have basically given up on them this cycle as I have watched our nation sink into an economic disaster brought on by an administration that has broken every law on the book and been allowed to get away with it.

    No wonder they love Palin and will not call her on all of her illegal and unethical acts! They BELIEVE IN IT as a way of governance and business.

    These are the Red Staters who are already fomenting armed rebellion and secession in their online forums if Obama wins.

    They live in ignorance and hate.

    I know. These are my relatives. I grew up with them. I lived as a teen through the height of the Civil Rights movement and George Wallace in the 1960's. I fled the south in 1969, and have lived in Europe and all over the central mid-western and south central USA since, I am near retirement. And I will NOT be retiring to Alabama. Hell will freeze over first.

    I left Alabama to move a century ahead in time. I will be damned If I will move back and regress a century.

    I always had assumed I would want my ashes buried out in the remote country community cemetery where seven or eight generations of my direct name grandfathers and their extended families are buried. But I begin to think even that is not what I want anymore.

    What I want is an end to the racism and hatred and ignorance. I thought we were making progress from the sixties on. I don't believe it anymore.

    Everywhere I turn all I see is ignorance, hatred, and greed triumphant, exacerbated by the most lawless, hideously damaging administration and president in the history of our nation.

    As much as I see Obama as a symbol of hope, and I fully support his candidacy, and have done so with what is for me some serious money, I despair of the state of ignorance and hatred in which so many Americans live.

    As a student especially of German language, literautre, and history, I have come to see the McCain - Palin rallies as looking more like Nazi rallies of the late Weimar Republic and early days of the Hitler's consolidation of power than campaign rallies in an American presidential race. I keep expecting them to break out the armbands and the evening torchlight parades and book burnings any day.

    I think John McCain saw this at the end of this past week. You could see in his face the pain, and you know what he had to be thinking: I have sold my soul to the devil in my ambition. McCain knows it. If only he had the moral fiber to stop it.

    "We must become the change we want to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi

    by HeartlandLiberal on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 04:43:18 AM PDT

    •  I can relate (4+ / 0-)

      It is so good to read your comment. I can totally relate. There is something visceral that gets stirred in people who were raised in this hatred and saw it for what it was. When we hear the bigotry and hatred seeping through the McCain-Palin ralies, it is like a kick in the guts.

      I was born in Birmingham, Alabama in 1962. Even as a small child surrounded and raised with these people, there was something inside me who knew this was NOT RIGHT. I remember asking for an African-American doll when I was five years old and making it "my favorite". I remember making an African-American child my "best friend" when I was eight years old. I remember staring at my grandmother in complete confusion and feeling sick inside as she got home from church every Sunday talking about "them niggers in the neighborhood". I can't even write the word without cringing.

      Obama represents a shift in consciousness. I am a strong believer in karma and it is being played out. What goes around comes around and it is about damn time. It is an extroadinary time to be alive.

      I found this jewel at another Kos diary here today and have emailed it to everyone I know. Perfect way to start a Sunday morning!

  •  God, I admire your courage -- (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, Loose Fur, alexa100

    I'd have long since have fled at least as far North as the bluer zones of North Carolina. Let alone actually argued with people I didn't know.

    I know it is important, I wish I could do it -- I would where I felt safe, one on one, but I would sure be wary in an Alabama Walmart. It gives me hope to know that it was possible for you to get out alive.

    If you can do what you did, I will not just back off when my brother-in-law and sister come to visit in two weeks and he spouts exactly that stuff (how he lost a fortune because irresponsible poor people defaulted their mortgages -- he won't do the race dimension, he isn't that far gone). I'll just remember that they are losing and losing badly and we have to try to give them a way to adapt without turning even uglier or we are all in big trouble sooner or later.

    Thank you for what you did.

    We have only just begun and none too soon.

    by global citizen on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 04:44:52 AM PDT

  •  Keep smiling! (6+ / 0-)

    Remember, THIS TIME all those FoxNews watchers are not only misguided and wrong, but their candidate for President is going to lose.

    And when President Obama and a strongly Democratic Congress take their seats, we can start worrying about dragging Alabama and Mississippi and South Carolina and Louisiana and parts of Texas and Indiana and Arkansas into the 20th century, so that they're only a hundred years behind the rest of us.

    In the meantime, have fun with it! Remember that the perceptions from "Planet Conservative" are so ridiculously wrong, they demand mockery.


    "Socialism? Do you suppose that means I'd get one of John McCain's houses?"

    "Well, what I remember from all the movies about the Old South, all the white people were always sitting around talking and drinking. The blacks were the ones doing all the work, and I'd rather have a President who's going to work hard at the job for a change!"

    "Muslim? I don't think so. You can't really make a suit out of that; I'm pretty sure his suits are made out of wool, maybe a wool-polyester blend. I prefer wool myself, but if you're putting long hours into it, wool just starts to look tired. You know what I mean? So I guess if you're campaigning for President sixteen hours a day, you might want to go with a wool-poly blend. But Muslim? No ... you can't make a suit out of that."

    Bush's Law: "There is no advantage that cannot be overcome by incompetence."

    by ProbStat on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 04:45:20 AM PDT

  •  View from Britain (7+ / 0-)

    ... there we were sitting in europe thinking failin/mccain is the real face of america and suddenly we find u kossacks. Then before we know it the media tide turns with MSM running desperately to keep up with u lot.

    I think we might be the only house in wales with an obama 08 sticker.  I've passed on links to all my contacts. No contributions allowed from here I believe, shame :(

    For Our Worlds sake please Vote Obama

    •  I get emotional when I see and hear... (0+ / 0-)

      folks from other countries who are excited about Obama.  I often cite that as a good reason to WANT Obama to win!  I believe that with him as our leader, we really can begin to repair our damaged reputation.

      I shudder to imagine what other countries will think of us if we put yet another Bushy type person in the White House!

      "A liberal is a conservative who's been hugged." ;o)

      by SteelMaggie13 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:20:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Keep up the good work (4+ / 0-)

    You're doing the best you can in a difficult situation.  I, for one, could never live in the South.  There are lots of racists up here in New Jersey but they are not in the majority so they aren't as bold in speaking their minds to strangers.  
    I have an Obama sticker on my car and have not had a problem in New Jersey.
    We went down to southern Virginia for a few days and my car got keyed when we were in a parking lot at our motel.  None of the other cars adjacent to us was keyed, only ours with the Obama sticker.  I felt like I couldn't get out of the south soon enough.
    I would hestitate before vacationing there again.  I don't like the atmosphere.

    One cannot deny the humanity of another without diminishing one's own. James Baldwin

    by CarolynC967 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 04:55:15 AM PDT

    •  I'm a southerner who lived in NJ for two years (7+ / 0-)

      In Jersey City.  And I was appalled by the amount of prejudice I ran into.  It was different from the prejudice in the South, which is still an immense problem, but it was still very present.  I almost got beat up a few times just for daring to say that not all Muslims were terrorists and that my Muslims friends were great family people.

      We clearly have a huge problem with racism here in South Carolina, but there is also hope.  In Columbia, where Fort Jackson is located, there are very large numbers of mixed couples.  This is in part because of the military, but it's also the locals.  There are also a lot of very integrated neighborhoods here.  In fact, I remember reading a demographic study somewhere that ranked Columbia as one of the most integrated cities in the country in terms of residences.

      Frankly, I think a big part of the problem here in the South is the hatred so many folks have against Democratics, white or black.  I've had my ACLU sticker scrapped off my car recently.  And usually admitting to being a Democrat among most people here used to get you some very harsh looks.  But even that is changing now.

      My point is this: racism is a national problem.  It's misleading to try to make it into just a Southern problem.  The South may have been at the root of America's race problem, but it's long since become a national problem that rears its ugly head in almost every city and town in America.

  •  We all have to stop this hate march (4+ / 0-)

    of McCain/Palin. Bob Shrum on msnbc, Hardball mentioned the last time the word "Treason" was used against a politician, was in the 60's. It was printed in the Dallas Morning News before President Kennedy's visit. He was than assassinated.

    We are all behind you SteelMaggie13. I lived in Dallas, Texas in the 60's when President Kennedy was campaigning, it was awful in school. I fought the fight every day for him.
    We are all here to fight for Senator Obama another great American.

    *a hundred years from now, the future may be different because I was important in the life of a child*

    by bonesy on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 05:02:33 AM PDT

  •  An Alabama republican invented the toothbrush. (4+ / 0-)

    Anyone else would have called it a "teethbrush".

    "Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." -Joseph Stalin

    by Taxmancometh on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 05:10:18 AM PDT

  •  Hang in There (4+ / 0-)

    Alabama is the toughest nut to crack in the South.  And Birmingham and Huntsville are the toughest to crack in Alabama.

  •  you are steel! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, Loose Fur, alexa100

    Keep up the good fight and the good work!  I'm going to wear my obama shirt today in your honor and the other strong Obama supporters through out the deep south.  

    "The woman's life is misery; for God's sake, people, at least give her a few good songs". NYT review of The Color Purple

    by arogue7 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 05:21:15 AM PDT

  •  I had to stop. Afraid I'm going to be fired. (6+ / 0-)

    My Boss (and the execs around him) are rabid Obama haters.  They're not so much in love with McCain, they just hate Obama.  They know I'm for him, and so I'm the object of constant jokes.

    I'm keeping a low profile, and not being overt at all...saying nothing.  It's that or figure out a way to get another job.

    •  I can understand (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tmo, SteelMaggie13

      My husband had exactly the same problem, but fortunately my husband works for a large company that views "politicing" on the job as a form of harrassment.  So when he mentioned that he was sick of the "harrassment" about Obama, his boss suddenly turned off the right wing nut radio station and stopped the all the discussion about Obama.  I don't think he wanted a "meet and greet" with HRS.  Since these are very well paying jobs, there are no second chances or warnings.  They give you a "Code of Ethics" book, have you read it and sign a paper stating that you read it, understand it, and accept it.  

      Silence often speaks louder than you can imagine, keep up the "silence" with a smile.  Won't be long now.

      "Americans... still believe in an America where anything's possible - they just don't think their leaders do." --Barack Obama

      by shewolf on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 08:06:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Why? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, Loose Fur

    Because two wars, borrowing money from China and watching everything I own get flushed down the stool. On those Republican's watch.

    Time up! They are out of here. While I am quite bitter , instead of clinging to my guns and religion, I am going to get rid of the Republican party on my way to church. I am going to take action and do something about the ignorance of the choices they made for our nation.

    Bush did not do not one thing he said he would do when he got elected. He was suppose to prevent gay marriage and overturn Roe vs Wade. He did none of that. He just focused in on the war in Iraq. He allowed our citizens to suffer during Katrina, and 9/11. He manipulated the media preventing them from reporting about the war in Iraq. He also failed to get BIN Ladin.

    The current administration is and was incompetent. Sarah is white, but she is totally unqualified for the job.

  •  Come to Atlanta on election day (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, Loose Fur

    Probably the closest state you can come to and celebrate turning a Red state to blue since it's gonna happen here!

  •  you dont have to work on anything (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, Loose Fur

      You should be pissed at these idiots so let THEM go fuck themselves.Let you continue to be impatiant with idiotic sheep who watch FOX and the bigots M/P voters they are standing with.You're a brave American standing firm and telling it like it is. My hats off to you.

  •  I know exactly how you feel (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DC Scott, SteelMaggie13, Loose Fur
  •  Keep the Faith (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, Loose Fur, alexa100

    I live in New Hampshire. Been here since 1981.
    Once upon a time, this state was FULL of die-hard,
    white Republicans. We now have a great Democratic
    governor and several great Democratic reps in Congress.
    It is NEVER EASY to move people. It's
    espically hard when certain beliefs have been handed
    down for several generations.

    New Hampshire is unusual in that we do not have a state income tax. As such, the largest portion of state and local revenues comes from the property tax.
    The collapse of the housing market here has had a devestating effect on our state & local budgets.
    We have reached the point where the economic pain
    is definitely Overpowering the Republican Bullshit.

    Keep the Faith. Your situation is a lot like ours
    was a number of years ago. We survived and succeeded
    in changing our state for the better. So Will you.

  •  Keep wearing those shirts! (5+ / 0-)

    You're not alone -- even in the South.  And the more you wear your hope proudly and publicly, the more confidence you'll give to others down there to do the same.  So thanks for sharing, both in your diary and in your choice of clothing.  Your courage is inspiring.

    An Obama administration will be like forcing those working-class, southern whites to take their medicine.  It'll taste bad going down, but when they're getting his middle-class tax cuts, his health-care reform, and his cures for our economic ailments, they'll feel better despite themselves.  And I suspect in four years, people will be stopping you at Wall-Mart asking where they can get one of those retro Obama 2008 shirts.

  •  You dun good! (4+ / 0-)

    Keep it up!  I'm in Georgia and have been behind Obama since before

    Put my car in the shop for it to come back without my bumpersticker, and have been openly called a n***** lover.  No worries.  I've always followed Obama's lead when it comes to those kind of "discussions" and reactions and you did to and that is why we will all win.

  •  posting from Crestwood, Birmingham (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LynneK, SteelMaggie13, Loose Fur

    Sympathize, Maggie! But, you did great!

    Living out-gay here is, well, a daily challenge. We've been doin it for years, though. Keep flying that flag and friends appear.

    It's better this election than four years back - lots more Obama signs and only a tenth as many McCain signs as Bush had. W stickers were everywhere.

    W won Alabama 60-40, btw.

    You "another bright blue dot in a really red state" is from B'ham?

  •  No poker face, please! (5+ / 0-)
    The expression on your face was an honest response to her disgusting attitude and words. If we shield people from the consequences of their actions/attitudes, how can they change? You were polite, knowledgeable, and honest. Please don't change a thing.

    "Enough!"   Obama/Biden 2008 - The Change We Need.

    by Chi on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 05:51:55 AM PDT

  •  Here in Indiana (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, Contra, Loose Fur

    things can be almost as bad as what you are describing. What I've found is in the areas where people are generally more educated there is far more Obama support, or at least understanding of other's reasons for supporting Obama/Biden. Not so much hating, racist stuff. But in certain pockets, you really might as well be at a Walmart in the deep south.
    Just keep doing what you are doing. I understand it is hard. I've found, with my Obama car sticker and yardsign, the best thing I can do is try to demonstrate peace and understanding as much as humanly possible. After all, "we must be the change we wish to see in the world" -M. Gandhi.

    THEN, at the end of the day, I can go on DKos and vent and/or get some validation!

    Ain't no time to hate; Barely time to wait...

    by letitbe on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 05:52:39 AM PDT

  •  REMEMBER (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    joy sinha, SteelMaggie13, Loose Fur

    I cannot convince a fool

    I might disperse the southern clouds,
    I might drain out the sea,
    I might cure the incurable sick,
    But I cannot convince a fool.

    There are two kinds of people, those who do the work and those who take the credit. Try to be in the first group; there is less competition there.Indira Gandhi

    by linx on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 05:53:38 AM PDT

  •  'nother Alabamian here (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tmo, SteelMaggie13, Loose Fur

    and have had similar experiences.  It's tough being a liberal in this (somewhat backward) state. Keep fighting the good fight.  We're needed here!

  •  It's tough, be we have to be realistic (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, Loose Fur

    As much as we know in our bones how great Barack is, and now right our cause is, there is and always will be the "40 percenters" out there.

    Those people just are unable to punch through the plywood box their brain resides in.

    They are either too frightened or too stupid.

  •  Here In Texas... (4+ / 0-)

    ...I get this sometimes.

    First, realize that these people are being lied to by EXPERTS. Highly skilled, totally unscrupulous experts, who know how to take half-truths and twist them into full lies.

    So just tell them...soberly......"Just ask yourself this. Do you want to vote for people who have nothing to offer but fear and hate? I'm not willing to do that. I've seen those ugly emails...they're lies. I've heard what McCain and Palin are saying. They're lies. And I think its sad that this is all McCain and Palin have to offer. I used to respect Senator McCain. I used to think he was a pretty decent guy. I don't think that anymore. I've seen what he says, I've seen what he does. I'm going with a candidate who says we should work together, as Americans, to make this country great again."

  •  I think you need to work on your opening... (6+ / 0-)

    ...and think about what you are trying to achieve. Starting off with, "You must watch FOX news..." is probably perceived as an elitist dig on down home reckoning. After that start the conversation most likely isn't going to go well. If you don't have the time, you might just state your beliefs succinctly. You believe it is not socialism, it is sensible, then explain why.

    It's can be a tough sell even when it shouldn't be and I am far from perfect at this. While canvassing in Northern Virginia, I met a biracial couple that worked for Amtrak and were union members. Yet they were undecided. Why? They were pissed at everyone, McCain and Obama, because of the bailout. But here's the kicker, they might not vote for Obama because they were in the military?! I too had to stifle my initial reaction of "So?!" and resorted to asserting that Barack Obama has served on the Committee for Veterans Affairs, that he speaks of renewing the militaries G.I. Bill. What I really wanted to ask him was, "I don't understand"?!

    Eventually, with relaxed talking around the edges of elephant in the yard, he seemed to be leaning towards Obama. I definitely think what I did not say during that conversation made the difference. Afterall, I am not there to win the debate, most people aren't willing to lose on the merits, but to listen and inform and connect.

  •  I don't think AL is going Blue this year (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, wewhodream, dwayne

    but GA might!  And maybe it will spread

  •  "Palin tells it like it is" ? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

      This is why I always stress the importance of intuition and mental sharpness.  McCain/Palin go after those who only look at the surface, appear incapable of seeing beyond mere words...then turn and accuse Barack Obama of being "Great with talk, but where's the substance".  And anyone with any semblance of mental acuity can see the substance.  Obama makes people cry, not just because he speaks well (I don't recall John Edwards making people cry, and he gives a decent speech), but because bright/intuitive people feel him.  And well, not-bright people do not.  I have relatives who fall into the not-bright-McCain category.  I must stop this comment now, as I'm getting mad just thinking about stupid people, and the Republicans' exploitation of them as a demographic. (See, I was trying not to use the word "Stupid").  

    "Ours is to shed light." --We Who Dream.

    by wewhodream on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 06:04:15 AM PDT

  •  There's something about Walmart and Republicans.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    If you don't agree with their point of view they feel it's ok to attack your character on every level. It's like it's their mission to save you from the evils of the Democrats.

    I try to avoid the Walmart trap unless I have to go. But my 22 year old daughter pointed out something to me yesterday & did a brave but crazy thing.

    Here's the story background. About 2 weeks ago I got a birthday card from my very Republican in-laws from up north. I opened it & was first surprised they remembered & then understood why. The card was a sort of a cartoon Hillary at a podium & it said President Hillary Clinton. When you open it the message says "See there are some things scarier than getting another year older". Here is a link to the actual card.http:///...

    Now they know I'm a Democrat or they do if they read my email asking them to stop sending Demo bashing emails before the convention. So I know they're dumb. What surprised me is how it affected my daughter. She happened to be in her local southern Walmart near her grad school & was looking for a birthday card for a friend. She saw the card I had gotten & was appalled. Not just because they sold it there but because there were no other candidate bashing cards for a Republican candidate.

    What did she do?? She got out her pen & on the inside lined through the word "scarier" & wrote in the word "better".Then she put it back on the rack. I don't like that she defaced the card but I agree with her feelings. She was offended as a woman & as a Hillary supporting Democrat.

    I guess Walmart is anti Democrats & even though they are based in Arkansas they forgot that the Clintons were responsible for much of their prosperity in years past. The current economy has to have hurt even this megastore.They should be politically neutral & let the biased local stores sell politically bashing cards.

    •  I worked at a Hallmark for the last two years (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      and there was a line of political cards (I think this might be the same line you recieved - WalMart also carries Hallmark merch)

      Most of them leaned FAR to the right, there were some that joked about McCain's age, but the ones that were Obama-oriented were snarky and a little offensive. The Hillary sound card had her sitting and thinking about a pink White House, and when you opened it, it played "Girls Just Want To Have Fun"


  •  Thanks for keeping your ground (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    It is people like you who have help Obama the most. People in the red states.

    On a side note, if people tell you stupid answers to why they like McPalin just give they a stupid answer why you like Obama, like besides he likes apple pie. LOL, they might turn their votes around. ;) WINK

  •  About Walmart.... (6+ / 0-)

    I don't shop there. I have so many choices here in suburbia that I don't have to step foot in the place. WAY different story for my grandmother who lives in a rural town in Indiana. Her only choice-even for groceries-is Walmart. There was another regionally owned grocery store there, but it went out of business. I'm assuming it couldn't compete with Walmart's prices. So that is her ONLY option. And she hates it. She thinks the one in her town is dirty, so sometimes she drives to the next town over (10 miles or so)and goes to THAT Walmart. Again, the only choice there. Seriously, no joke.

    We'd love for her to move, but she's 86, likes to hang with her church friends, etc.  

    Ain't no time to hate; Barely time to wait...

    by letitbe on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 06:13:05 AM PDT

  •  "HopeMonger"? I've never seen that t-shirt. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Can you post a picture of it please?


  •  If she's so worried about socialism (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FishBiscuit, SteelMaggie13, Contra

    Why does she work for a store where everything they sell is made in China.

    Americans: losing their homes; John McCain: misplacing his houses

    by jhecht on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 06:16:20 AM PDT

  •  The comeback I use is do you like the way things (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, Contra

    are going now.  And don't you think that something has to change?  It puts the conversation on a reality plane to start with.  If they say they like things the way they are, you already know their not worth talking to.  It saves a lot of heartache.

  •  If someone asks why? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RAST, SteelMaggie13

    Simply say because it can't get any worse than it is now, unless you choose to repeat the same mistakes.'

    If someone asks why you're voting for the black man you say 'because the white men who have run our country the last 8 years have done such a horrible job.'

    Personally I'm glad I'm not in Alabama cause I don't deal with sheer stupidity too well.  I guess it's the Jersey in me.  I've been known to call people out on more than one occasion and I don't bother talking rationally with irrational asshats.  I just give them a little back and them write them off from my life.

    This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

    by DisNoir36 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 06:22:31 AM PDT

  •  As a Southern boy who... (3+ / 0-)

    ...moved to NYC for a decent spell and now lives in Nashville, I am sending you and my sister a big ole hug.

    It's tough down here in the south. I travel around the south (Georgia and Alabama, mainly) for work and I am somewhat surprised at the Obama supporters that I do meet during those travels.

    Hang in there. After the election in November, we'll have the last laugh.

  •  It's really much better than I expected (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RAST, SteelMaggie13, Angela0317

    When we nominated a black guy with a Muslim name I thought we were dead unless the under 30 turnout was truly historic.

    Fortunately McCain killed himself with the Palin pick.  By playing to and "energizing" the GOP base he brought the ignorant prejudiced wing of the party to the forefront.

    Nobody with an open mind wants to be associated with this bullshit. McCain will be lucky to get 200 EVs.

    What did you do with the cash Joe?

    by roguetrader2000 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 06:27:18 AM PDT

  •  It's been a rough week to be an Obama supporter " (5+ / 0-)

    "It's been a rough week to be an Obama supporter in the deep south."

    Tell me about it.  Two different people told me (one of them wanted to bet me) that President Obama would be assassinated during his first year as President.  Obviously, this is their hope and desire.  The hate is palpable.  I have to keep my Obama yard sign inside the storm door on my front door rather than in the yard.  I have to ignore the middle-finger salutes due to my Obama bumper first, I was blowing them kisses, but with everyone carrying guns around here, I decided to just ignore them.  The wingnuts here absolutely believe (are not pretending to believe) that Obama is an Arab/terrorist.  In the Deep South, people do not vote their pocket-books, they vote their prejudices.  These prejudices are kept hidden in their daily lives, in their jobs, in their daily interactions, but erupt in the voting booths.  In the Deep South elections are all psychological.

    "This whole world's Wild at Heart and weird on top.".....Lula

    by anninla on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 06:27:52 AM PDT

    •  I hear this.. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      ...and I seriously wonder why Lincoln even bothered. I know there are progressive people in the Deep South, but they're a minority.

      Lousy Smarch weather!

      by FishBiscuit on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:39:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I hate to say this but I'm torn . . (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Torn between wanting Obama to paint the country blue (e.g Georgia, Mississippi), and wanting Obama to sweep every non-Confederate state and lose every Confederate one (well, every one except Virginia, North Carolina and Florida, which I've decided should be adopted), which would give us a good reason to just split the country.  Hey, the old Confederacy can have Oklahoma too.

      We can let them have Fixed Noise, the tele-evangelists, corn and poultry for their cuisine, and annual visitation rights to Colorado Springs.  They can let us have military bases, overflight rights, mineral rights, and control over their greenhouse gas emissions.

      Or else maybe they can stop acting like Fifth Columnists and start joining in what it means to be American again, and then we can banish talk of a divorce.

  •  Tell me about it- (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    It sucks to be in the Deep South right now, look at what happened in Arkansas and Knoxville and they wonder wtf is going on down here.  We are moving no matter who wins the election, it won't be safe for us anymore.  

    Three times this week I have heard from aquaintances and co-workers that Obama should be  shot, or worse.  i was even told he was the anti-
    Christ, and some "good Christian" needs to take him down.

  •  I went to a family reunion in Alabama this summer (6+ / 0-)

    Anyway, one of my husband's family members, who is a state representative, was there.  This is a big wonderful family in the area, but they really don't get into politics -- and they seemed to be intimidated by the politician present.  They were friendly to him, but they didn't spend much time with him.

    I asked around and found out he was a fellow Democrat. So, when I saw that he was free, I stopped him to talk.

    We talked about the upcoming presidential election and how we worried that racism would be Obama's biggest roadblock to the presidency. But the piece of data I took away that amazed me the most was that Democrats hold majorities in both houses of the Alabama state house!

    Of course, they're pretty a pretty conservative set of Democrats, but fact that just amazed me.

  •  The overt racism on the Repubs' side (4+ / 0-)

    is genuinely disheartening.

    So far, here, on the BBC, and on NPR, I have heard Republicans openly call Obama an arab, a terrorist, a guy who "pals around with terrorists" (Palin herself), "a terrorist's best friend" (McCain campaign), a n***er, and more; and one sap a BBC reporter got to speak openly about how he felt even said that no white man should ever vote for a black man for president, because of some nonsense about whites' inherent dominance over "lesser races."

    I'm ashamed of my country right now. Deeply ashamed. And that is compounded by the incitement to violence McCain and Palin have engaged in. And, now that McCain has realized that his such incitement could wind up turning his followers into a lynch mob, when he tries to simmer them down, he is now getting roundly booed.

    "They blamed it on the Islamic fanatics, at the time. [...] That was when they suspended the Constitution. They said it would be temporary." -Handmaid's Tale

    by Cenobyte on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 06:31:28 AM PDT

  •  The main difference this year is my desire to (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    answer back.  I know exactly what you're saying - I encounter the same things.  But this year I do not let repubs say whatever they want and go unanswered.  Often, the look on their face at being challenged is priceless.
    I know what you mean about delivery.  I get SO impatient!

  •  I've had the same experience in Idaho (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I used to wonder why it was so easy for some people to believe the lies that they were being fed.

    I think I've come to the conclusion that some people just want to believe the ugly lies because it fits the true measure of their hearts.  You truly have to be open to new ideas.  Many hearts & minds are closed even though their wallets are now emptying.

    John McCain: Prisoner Of W

    by pattisigh on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 06:35:02 AM PDT

  •  Absolutely yes , that crap is all around - (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tmo, SteelMaggie13, island in alabama

    in Alabama too , and I've heard nasty BS , venomous spew , and smelled the flatulent evidence of people having swallowed great shovelfuls of BS for the last 2 weeks. The same time in which it has become obvious that Obama is going to win.

  •  hang in there hon (3+ / 0-)

    it's always hard to maintain composure in the face of irrational anger, racism, and fear.

    Eyes on the Prize, people, Eyes on the Prize.

    by bookcat on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 06:39:02 AM PDT

  •  First mistake, shopping at Walmart n/t (4+ / 0-)

    by Soma on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 06:41:58 AM PDT

    •  We live in 'Bama m, stayt out of Walmart - except (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      quaoar, SteelMaggie13

      for some grocery shopping my wife does there , mosatly for items that are not carried any longer by the greatly diminished competition , a hall mark of Walmart's "success". Those itmes are mostly ones needed due to my health difficulties and the much higher prices at another supermarket 25 miles away.
      I haven't been in a single Walmart once in well over two years , ans only 3 times in nearly twice that many years. Keep track as if going to Confession , eh? ; >}

  •  SteelMaggie13, (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tmo, RLF, SteelMaggie13, island in alabama

    You may or may not be aware of the history of states like Alabama who never would have even gotten eletricity had it not been for "socialists" like FDR.  There would have been no major interstates in Alabama had it not been for Democratic Congressmen who believed it was important for their state to be a part of the system.  There would be no phones either...

    So next time you meet a lady like that, you might consider talking about the fact that Obama believes in all people in America and wants to serve them by making their lives better not by blowing up bridges in Iraq one week and rebuilding them the next, but by rebuilding American bridges, roads and re-establishing our independence in the world by helping private industry to create jobs through green energy projects.

  •  I live in Louisiana... (7+ / 0-)

    which is equally red if not more red than Alabama.  I've been in the tank for Obama since March and I've had my bumper sticker on my car since April.

    I recently got my Obama yard sign and I think it's driving my neighbor NUTS.  He's been making funny comments like oh it's about time you Obama supporters cut your yard.

    His kids play with my niece and he "jokingly" said to his kids.  Girls don't go over there because they are Obama supporters.  

    He's a regular jokster but I think deep down this bothers him now that the election is around the corner.

    My sister learned that they're not even registered to vote. So at least that's 2 less votes for McCain.

    I'm not ready to take a 10% chance on CHANGE! Kos Member Since: August 04

    by Moxie Gurl on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 06:45:34 AM PDT

  •  I guess I have it easy (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, LaKathie

    being an Obama supporter in the Chicago area.  Keep fighting the good fight.

  •  My workplace in Texas (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FishBiscuit, SteelMaggie13

    is more or less quite "progressive", maybe because it is a public library, and you know those librarians are all for free speech, and all that....

  •  Thanks for sharing and venting! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    You did a great job! Your sharing of how you handled these difficult people helps others--I'm sure most of us are encountering the negativity now or will in the next few weeks, unfortunately.  Hang in there!

    "...honesty is every bit as much a Christian value as opposition to abortion." Jacques Berlinerblau

    by wentletrap on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 06:54:53 AM PDT

  •  My Condolences... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    on living in Hyper-Red Alabama.

    I only live in Somewhat-Red Ohio that will go Blue this year!

    But you have my respect for standing up for our candidate in such a place!

  •  How to take defuse bullies in the South (9+ / 0-)

    Take it from a home grown southerner they are just bullies. I will not back down to these people, now that is just me and I wear my bitchiness with pride, but these racists hate to be called racists. It is weird, but say all people who support McCain are just racist and thank God I live in 2008 and I'm not. They will stare, looked shocked, but shut up. Good luck and never give up hope.

  •  I've lost two friends, now acquaintances (7+ / 0-)

    due to my inability to deal with their outright racism. It's sad, but I really didn't know it existed until this election. I immediately called them on it, and they know not to ever bring it up again around me. If you don't want to vote for Obama, that's your choice, but don't you dare use that pathetic, sorry ass excuse to do it. My God, when we win it will be so great.

    "as Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where-- where do they go?" - Sarah Palin

    by dsr2008 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:10:09 AM PDT

    •  Right there with you, friend. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sockpuppet, smythy, SteelMaggie13, dsr2008

      I am scared that I have alienated a person whom I have come to count on and who I have had much to share in recent years, as I live next door to his 90 year old mother adn they are both loosely related to me.

      But he unloaded that "Obama is a muslim" line on me, and he had that look in his eyes like he was going to swing at me. The whole event ranks in the top five most intense moments of my life - it came out of nowhere, and it was pure hatred.

      I'm never going to be able to gloat about winning this, because the fracturing of this country is just beginning.

      The same forces that were deluded enough to believe that GWB could have been "A uniter, not a divider" are the same forces that are now out there driving wedges as fast and furious and far as they can and they don't care. This is "scorched earth" from a lame-duck party who knows how bad they have screwed the pooch, and they are literally going to burn it to the groud in the days between the election and the inauguration if they lose.

      Think about this for a minute: Richard Clarke, counterterrorism chief, has written and testified how he tried to leave Bush and his transition team with the information he had and they were so convinced they knew better they wouldn't even take the time to come to the meetings he arranged.

      Notwithstandign the accusations that Sandy Berger took classified documents out in his pants legs when he left the Clinton administration, what do you think the Bush administration is going to do with the classified information  has now, particularly given that one of the first things Bush did as president was to change the Presidential Records Act. They're going to take it all with them, and shred the rest.

      George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

      by snafubar on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 11:23:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Walmart? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RAST, SteelMaggie13

    I haven't been in a Walmart in 10 years

    Yes, the NSA can hear you.

    by Muggsy on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:11:08 AM PDT

  •  Courage! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Representing for Obama and standing up for him is some if the best activism you coudl be doing for him right now. Think of it as "coming out". By being "out", you are telling other people that it's okay. They might look at you and think "wow -- so she's one?" I would have never guessed." Other folks who are not out (for Obama) yet, might feel like they're not as crazy as their family members and communities might make them feel. Of course, there are always going to be those fundamentalist freaks who will say that it is wrong no matter what, but that is nothing compared to those whose lives may be positively affected by your openness and normalization.

    Ha! Turned into a better analogy than I'd even though at the onset!

    Out and Proud for Obama!

    "Your silence will not protect you" -Audre Lorde

    by LaKathie on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:11:34 AM PDT

  •  It's ok to be snippy (5+ / 0-)

    and bitchy - especially in Wal-mart (the destroyer of American small business)

  •  Having grown up in Bama, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DC Scott, Renie, SteelMaggie13

    I know that it takes a LOT MORE GUTS to be a Dem in a sea of red.  Keep a going - you may not win the state for Big O but I am absolutely certain you will have a great impact on downticket races.

    Roll Tide Roll!

  •  Being visible helps all the others who are afraid (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    to speak up and affirm support for change. The history of slavery, state sponsored segregation, and the KKK's program of domestic terror in the south left a deep social imprint that will take generations to fade away. You being out there and having the nerve to go against the tide tells everyone in a non verbal way that they don't need to be afraid. When you say you are proud of your candidate, even if your voice is shaking, you are speaking up for everyone within earshot that is on the fence or wants a way out of the hateful mess they find themselves in. You are a brave person. You are, along with our smart, good, and brave candidate, are part of a cultural pivot away from terror, and bigotry, as tools of power. Their day couldn't last and we are part of its undoing. We can all be proud of that, even those of us who are not as brave as you and can't find the nerve to stand up so people see them. You inspire hope, thank you for your courage.

    Love = Awareness of mutually beneficial exchange across semi-permeable boundaries. Political and economic systems either amplify or inhibit Love.

    by Bob Guyer on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:21:11 AM PDT

  •  If they thought they were winning.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lisastar, SteelMaggie13

    ...they wouldn't have said anything.

  •  Socialism is what Bush is doing right now. (5+ / 0-)



    Crescat scientia; vita excolatur

    by AxmxZ on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:22:10 AM PDT

  •  No one has confronted me in Bama. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    But I live in Tuscaloosa. The college town may be shielding me, but I wear Obama shirts and have an Obama bumper magnet on my car.

    Evolution is an incremental project.

    by Common Cents on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:23:07 AM PDT

  •  In the checkout line at the Bellevue Publix,.. (7+ / 0-) in Nashville, the cashier asked the bagger if Obama was the anti-Christ. Right in front of me!

    Well, I have a good stare, and I gave it to him. He then realized his remarks were inappropriate and tried to recover be saying "of course he may be the one to get us out of this mess".

    How can someone representing a company be allowed to say such inflamatory things.

    Isn't it discouraging to think how many people are shocked by honesty and how few by deceit? (Noel Coward)

    by Mid10Dem on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:25:55 AM PDT

  •  They are hurt and mad down here (7+ / 0-)

    I live in Alabama (one of the 2 university towns) and I encounter the same sort of thing. I have been listening to this shit for nearly 2 decades.

    But things are a bit different this time. In 2000 and 2004, the wingnut affiliations were worn on their sleeves. Not so now. There are virtually no McCain/Palin signs anywhere. Precious few bumper stickers. No signs on shop windows.

    These are people that are on the defensive. Even in Alabama, they dare not wear their bigotry in public. They can rail about it at home, in the office, in small groups.

    The reason?

    For the first time, the wingnuts around here cannot be sure how an acquaintance will react. There are smart, respected, long-time republicans that will vote for Obama (I know several). They are placed like little grenades in public discourse.

    The wingnuts around here aren't used to this and they are (quietly) really pissed off.

    -2.38 -4.87: There are no nationalists in a global financial meltdown

    by grapes on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:26:18 AM PDT

  •  We're with you! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    arkdem, SteelMaggie13

    And proud of you!

  •  Maybe once O wins, they'll want to secede... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13 which point, I say, effin let 'em.

  •  Don't waste your time on the bigots -- they (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    are getting incensed as each day passes and the McCain campaign loses another wheel.  

  •  You go, Maggie! (2+ / 0-)

    And help that sister of yours too!  Maybe a little role-playing practice would help her.

    But it's important for us Southerners (my family has lived down here for 150+ years) to show that Obama is our candidate--not just the candidate of "east coast elites." These discussions may be painful, but if you can raise doubt in people's minds, that's one less McCain voter.

    And some people, seeing you, will feel that they have "permission" to do what they've secretly been thinking of--voting differently than they usually do. (The idea here is: "Regular people vote for Obama. Not just people with dreadlocks and Birkenstocks.")

    If people talk to you about the economy, tell them the whole bit about low-income mortgage buyers (black!)destroying the economy is aimed to distract them from the role of derivatives, which Warren Buffet called "financial instruments of mass destruction."

    ANd BTW--one of the most wingnuttiest voters I've ever known has flipped--over the neocon's love of endless war. She has sons, and at heart, believes in peace on earth despite her Christianist beliefs.

    You're doing God's work, Maggie! Go forth!

  •  I love the rawness of this story (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    SteelMaggie13 isn't a saint, and she doesn't pretend to be one.

    And this automatically canonizes her.

    Thanks, Mag. And keep working on that attitude; we're with you 100%.

    Isn't it a good feeling when you see the paper in the morning, it says 'Axe Slayer Kills 19' and you say, "They can't pin that one on me!" - Jean Shepherd

    by razajac on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:38:26 AM PDT

  •  These Coversations Are Happening All Over (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    My wife had to endure her father's racist rants about Obama over the phone. When she called him on, he hung up on her. The people against Obama are boiling over with anger and loathing right now, because for the first time in many people's lives, an African American is going to assume the most powerful person in the world mantle, and it is a lot to swallow after being told you are superior for your entire life. It is a sad reality that I think will begin to wither with Barack's election and it will die for good if he is successful.
  •  A wingnut accosted me yesterday (9+ / 0-)

    He pointed to my Obama button, got in my face, and asked me "What has he ever done? What has he ever accomplished?"

    I asked him if having gotten elected one of only 100 United States Senators meant nothing to him. He repeated: "Tell me one single thing he has accomplished!"

    I smiled at the guy and said "You know, buddy, I have a feeling that if he walked on water and cured lepers with a touch of his garment it woudn't be enough for you. So all I can tell you is he's going to be the President of the United States, and there isn't jack shit you can do about it. So have a nice day."

    See, this is what Kos means when he says he wants to humiliate them. It gets real personal for these people. It attacks their manhood, their self-esteem, their perceived entitlement of privilege. their sense of the order in this world.

    It's like the guy in my .sig file says. That's why he's there.

    "Lash those traitors and conservatives with the pen of gall and wormwood. Let them feel -- no temporising!" - Andrew Jackson to Francis Preston Blair, 1835

    by Ivan on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:39:35 AM PDT

  •  Way down here at the bottom of the comments (2+ / 0-)

    I just want to say thanks for trying. I live in Washinton State and I am glad I live in Western Washington where the political climate is deep blue.

    But if you go a few miles east, just across the Cascades, you run into Eastern WA and things are quite different there. It might as well be Idaho, which might as well be Alabama. As a matter of fact, many living there want to secede from WA and form a new state.

    There are tons of those McCain-Palin flying monkeys out here, too. So the point is, don't get too discouraged. You are very brave for standing up for you beliefs in that envoinment. Very brave.

    John McCain: Country Club First!

    by Batbird on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:41:08 AM PDT

  •  Very little has changed since 1865. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wuod kwatch, SteelMaggie13

    I'm from Alabama, grew up in Birmingham. I know these people; I'm related to them. They are our enemies. If we were all loaded into boxcars and shipped to a concentration camp, they would cheer. You can't reason with them; you have to fight them with all your time, money, and energy until they are defeated.

  •  In the end, this is a good thing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I have come to believe that the deep, and very covered racism that is a part of our country will be exposed. Folks who are good decent people at heart, but are not really aware of how much hatred is really out there will now see it. Acknowledging there is a problem is the first step. Safe to say it will be a painful step though as even having verbal hatred thrown at you is not fun.

    And remember, you may want to, and you may actually get a few people to listen to what you have to say, but for the most part, their minds are set, their frames are set. The only thing you can do is say something like, "I am proud of my country and I am not going to stand by while I see her destroyed. I want my family to have the same chance as those who are in power have to help their families." That way you are not making them wrong. You are only telling them what you want to do and if they agree with those principles, maybe they will consider a different point of view.

    "The question is not whether America is ready for an African American President. Is America ready for a smart president."

  •  Alabama has taken the mantle from West Virginia (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    malibu1964, SteelMaggie13

    as the most racist state in the union. At least that's the impression I get.

    A poll last week showed Obama leading in West Virginia. But he's still well behind in Alabama. Racism seems to be the only explanation. After all, Dems control the state congress in Alabama.

  •  I live in the western part of Ky (5+ / 0-)

    I park my car right in front of wal-mart with my Obama bumper sticker,and "had enough? vote democrat" I get a few smiles..need to take a picture of the car LOL

    by vet on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:51:49 AM PDT

  •  Why cry? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    csquared, SteelMaggie13

    If these morons are hateful enough to say the things they say to your faces, why cry?  Why feel awkward about handing them their asses on a platter?

    I do not care for confrontation generally, but by God, if someone invites it by spouting off racist nonsense or sending an unsolicited hatemongering email, they deserve to be called on it.

    They are the ones who should be going to their cars in tears after you've told them that they are ignorant, unChristian racists.

    Dittoheads will not stop thinking this way until they realize that normal people think they are stupid, hateful, and wrong.  

    "If all you run is negative attack ads you don't have much of a vision for the future, or you're not ready to articulate it."--John McCain, 2000

    by jenesq on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:57:12 AM PDT

  •  Hang in There Jen, we're with you (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    This message is for Jen.  

    Jen, I sympathize with what you are going through. Yes, its disappointing that someone you respected is so shallow thinking and fear motivated.

    In a few weeks, we'll be saying President elect Obama.

    If you could think of the single most powerful thing to move this country forward and away from racism, what would it be.  Yes!  An African-American president and an very intelligent, forward thinking one at that.

    The coming images of Barack Michelle and the 2 girls in the White House will be heart warming.

    The upcoming generations are not nearly as racist and the post Obama generations will be even less so.

    Prejudice is too blunt an instrument for my toolbox.

    by Cali Dem on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 08:01:14 AM PDT

  •  Thank you for standing up! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
  •  it's hard not to have an argument (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, MarianLibrarian

    when you know the other party is wrong. And I do mean WRONG.

    How many more years do we patiently wait for these narrow minded bigots to wake up?  They probably wouldn't think of intentionally slandering their neighbor, but someone of another color is less "human, out of their "tribe," so slander away. I admire your patience and cheerfulness. I'll try it first next time.

    They warned us that some would not be able to handle to information age, but this crap is ridiculous.

    On a happier note, I traveled to north central WA yesterday and expected nothing but McCain/Palin signs.  I saw many Obama/Biden and only one McCain.  Quite a few Gregoire, but alas as many Rossi signs,

    If we cannot elect this man, we don't deserve him.

    by lisastar on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 08:09:55 AM PDT

  •  I cannot believe (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MKSinSA, SteelMaggie13

    that thinking people actually think Acorn and "minorities" with mortgages caused this mess!

    What gullible fools!

  •  Eyes Wide Shut (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lorzie, SteelMaggie13

    It seems that too many Mccain supporters are backing him purely out of fear of and disdain for Obama.

    So much so that they're able to suspend reality and overlook what's staring this country in its face.

  •  When people ask me why (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lorzie, SteelMaggie13
    I answer as simply as possible:

    "McCain without any doubt will be an absolute disaster.  I knew Bush would be a disaster before the primaries in 2000 and I was right back then and I know McCain will be a disaster now.  Just look at the campaign he's running.  It's already imploded three times...once in 2000, once in 2007 and now.  Worst case scenario is that Obama is just an average president.  And there's a good chance he may be an incredible president.  But McCain will be an absolute disaster. I'd rather just have an average president than an absolute guaranteed disaster."

    Yes, I do make sure I repeat the "disaster" line at least three times.

  •  Thanks for all (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    the great stories everyone. I am in Mississippi and have had trouble not feeling incredibly downtrodden about the situation here.

    Barack's campaign has instilled within me hope for the world outside this state. Its good to know their are signs of progress elsewhere in the South as well.

  •  Stay spring loaded! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Renie, SteelMaggie13

    Your sister's story made me sad for her. It also gave me the impression you're both in your 20s, because it sounded familiar to me. At that age, we women tend to not want to offend anyone, even to the point where we let ourselves be offended. Why let people shove their ignorance down your throat just so you don't offend THEM?

    And you see from your Walmart experience that people do back down and then you have your chance to tell your side of the story when they see that you're the one who is "spring loaded" (love the metaphor!).

    So all I can say is keep on keepin on. You're raising awareness without even knowing it.

  •  Saw a white middle aged woman (0+ / 0-)

    in Whole Foods the other day with a McCain/Palin shirt on. I wanted to punch her. I settled for a giving her the dirtiest look I could muster.

    Kudos to you for standing up to these folks, but also know that you will illicit those types of reactions anywhere you go when you wear that shirt, and be prepared for them as best you can.

  •  Am I the only one who's enjoying... (5+ / 0-)

    the Freeper meltdown?

    I'll admit it.  I'm not particularly interested in being civil with them.  I don't want to be bipartisan.  Yes, Obama's a better man than I am in that he's going to do what the country needs and work with them wherever that's possible, even though I'm completely unwilling to give an inch to them.

    I just want to humiliate the fuckers.  I want to shove their noses in the stench of their defeat.  I want to spit on them.  I want to kick them when they're down.  I want to force them to scream into the void, knowing that nobody will answer them.  I want their Congresscritters to be forced to meet in Capitol basement broom closets.  I want to lord over them.  Yeah.  After eight years of being kicked down by these sons of bitches, I want revenge.

    So every time I see these hatetards have a meltdown, I savor the schadenfreude like a fine wine.

    Waster of electrons, unlawful enemy combatant.

    by meldroc on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 08:55:59 AM PDT

  •  Practice Makes Perfect (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, MarianLibrarian
    Congratulations on moving through your heart-pounding forced confrontation with ignorance and hatred. You win!

    That little response you made to the woman in the Walmart was pitch-perfect, especially since you really meant it. Your heart pounding isn't necessarily fear, you know. It was anxiety because your body isn't used to going through those motions. But if you practice it, you'll be even more confident. And your heart will pump that confidence to every cell in your body, projecting it. Your excitement and confidence are contagious.

    I recommend you wear Obama on your sleeve (and your chest :) as much as you can. The people seeing you are mostly against Obama because they're in a media monoculture, a Republican echo chamber they dutifully serve by repeating the rightwing talking points to each other without challenge. Just seeing a positive example in you puts them in the same anxious state, though their fear goads them into confronting you. While your hearts are beating hard together, if you show that your Obama hope keeps you together, no matter your reasons why, you'll influence them. Even if not there in the confrontation, but later when their Republican "bitter cling" falters in light of the latest Republican failure, they'll have an image of you as an alternative. They might never admit it, but you might just inhibit one of them you've encountered from reinforcing another who's closer to dropping the hate act, which is when they turn to each other for validation. The less they're hot to validate each other, because positive engagement with "the other side" has left them cooler, the more of those on the fence will actually step to the Obama side. Or at least away from the WcCain side, and perhaps just not vote.

    If it helps, practice your little Walmart response a few times in front of a mirror. Don't go stale with repetition, but just get comfortable. With any luck, you'll just have to change the tenses to past tense after November, when refugees from the ruined Republican Party start asking you how you could have been so clever and calm when you led the way in your neighborhood.

    Keep up the good work, and the good vibes!

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 08:56:50 AM PDT

  •  While you are brave... you are also... (0+ / 0-)

    about to be disillusioned; if you think, your guy Obama is going to solve anything then you will be in for a rude awakening.

    Just take the issue of the bail out.

    Both corporate backed candidates voted for the same crappy proposal.  Have you noticed it didn't work because both men refuse to face the real problems?

    Obama used to be for single payer before he came out against it.

    by formernadervoter on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 09:07:38 AM PDT

    •  Former Nader voter? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      You sound like a current one, too.

    •  This is a negativity free zone!~ (0+ / 0-)

      But thanks just the same. LOL

      "A liberal is a conservative who's been hugged." ;o)

      by SteelMaggie13 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 11:49:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm also a former Nader voter (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      And damn proud of it. I won't be intimidated inot feeling like I was wrong for doing what I believed in, something I'm sure you get a lot of yourself. And while I still have very deep reservations about some of Obama's positions, and will not join the Democratic party because they will not stand up for what is right much of the time, I am really, really excited about Obama. He is a far, far better choice than either Kerry or Gore were. Isn't there anything you like about him? Do you really see him as being the same as McCain? For once, the Democrats are not running as Republican lite, which is why they are going to win this time.

  •  keep up the good fight (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I've been wondering what it must be like to live in the deep South and deal with such ignorance and hate. Sounds tough, but you are on the right side of history.

    A fool and his money are lucky enough to get together in the first place- Gordon Gekko

    by IvanR on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 09:10:10 AM PDT

  •  I love the looks I get at Wal-Mart (3+ / 0-)
    My goal is to never venture into my Cheyenne Wal-Mart without my "Wyoming for Obama" T-shirt. Sometimes I wear my union (and union-made) shirt, "SEIU for Obama." I'm a big ornery-looking guy but I still get the hateful looks. People here are a taciturn lot, so I'm never asked anything like "Why?" I'm ready with my replies. I'm going to borrow some of yours if it's O.K. Please keep wearing that shirt until we celebrate on the evening of Nov. 4.  
    •  I'll keep wearing mine... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cheyenne Mike

      And I'll be even MORE ready with answers for those who will confront me directly!

      You keep wearing yours!! ;o)

      "A liberal is a conservative who's been hugged." ;o)

      by SteelMaggie13 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 11:36:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Any reccomendations for good ones? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        My favorites that I own or have seen so far are "I'm Voting for That One" and Sarah Palin "I'm not allowed to talk unsupervised any more" from CafePress and Michelle Obama as Rosie the Riveter fist bumping with Barack saying "We Can Change It!", one that shows Obama when he was young in the seventies with "Barry!" underneath, and McCain-Palin as Marie Atoinette and her husband with the slogan "Let Them Eat Cake" (or another that says "Let Them Eat Moose") from Zazzle. I like those sites because the people who design the stuff are not part of the campaigns, just people expressing their views. Most of them are better than the paid publicity people.  

  •  I don't what to say...... (3+ / 0-)

    I just have absolutely no respect for racist white southerners, and I've said as much on this site and taken a lot of shit for it.

    There is a large element within the Republican party that is not only completely racist, but is also rabidly reactionary and corporatist.  In other words, fascist.  And I am not kidding around here.  These are the people who, in other countries, help bring dictators into power.  

    I am not sure how I would have responded.  Maybe I would have said "Well, we are going to pass labor law reform so that Walmart employees in the United States can have a union - just like their counterparts in Europe.  Then maybe the workers here will be one step closer toward a family wage, and Alabama might not be quite the statistical backwater that it has been for hundreds of years."

    Or, I might have said: "Well, if you are concerned about socialism, then maybe you should call for the impeachment of Bush because his administration is talking about nationalizing the banking system."

    Part of me would have loved to say: "Listen you fucking racist, fascist asshole.  The Civil War is over, and in case you hadn't noticed - you guys lost.  So it isn't okay to treat people differently because of the color of their skin. And it isn't okay to fly the flag of a terrorist nation that tried to destroy the constitution of the United States - that nation being the Confederacy."

    But what I probably would have said is this: "If you are really worried about Socialism, you should vote for Bob Barr.  Have a nice day."

    Q: What's the difference between liberals and cannibals? A: Cannibals only eat their enemies.

    by AdamSmithsInvisibleFinger on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 09:36:29 AM PDT

  •  Really shouldn't be shopping at Wal-Mart. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wuod kwatch, SteelMaggie13

    About the worst large-scale corporate entity in the world when it comes to anti-union activity.  

  •  Ask them point blank if they are racist. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, CcVenussPromise

    Just don't get why they think it's OK to do this.  Really. There've been a number of diaries about this or other similar topics, and I'm just flabbergasted that the wing-nuts think it's OK to do this.  To confront someone.  To not know enough to know to shut up.  To talk about n*****s to someone you don't know, to be openly RACIST.  Why do they think it's OK?

    Maybe that's going to start being my come back line.  Like a diary earlier in the week - just call them on it.  Say "are you suggesting that I shouldn't vote for him because he's black?"  Or, "do you judge people on the basis of their skin color?"  Or, "why do you think it is OK to say that to me?"  Make THEM defensive.

  •  A 'Praise the Lord!' and a pause to reflect (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    People who stay with a hard row, when the ground is rocky and dry and the hoeing is ugly, are a miracle for the future generations who will only come to pass as a result of the grit of this kind of person, which is to say your sort.  I've been there, in the suburban or small town lot or church or roadside stand a hundred times, and in the kitchens and living rooms hundreds more.  

    My experiences have in general not been quite so grotesque, with a few exceptions that made me wonder if I might face a rope in the near future.  Often, I was with a crowd, or at least a coterie, of like-minded rabble, so the loneliness of encountering bigotry and fear as a minority-of-one has been less common for me.

    I've marched in Selma and Anniston and Tuscaloosa and Birmingham for the good guys in 'Alabama the beautiful,' as well as flying 'once more dear friends into the breech' all over Dixie, where I have reported and organized for a significant portion of my adult life.  My undergraduate work--being an intellectual makes the slings and arrows a lot easier to bear, believe me--focused on Southern history, and my master's thesis topic was "The World of the Working Class: Birmingham...1900-1930."  

    To my mind, folks worldwide have no more serious political task than the analysis, deconstruction, and reconstruction--without the thuggish cooptation of Tilden-Hayes this time?--of the rule of White Supremacist ideology among Southern White working people.  All of the political machinations that we despise--war and carnage incarnate around the globe, the dehumanization of the human condition at home, the elevation of dumbing down to the highest hosannas of praise-God-almighty, etc--emanate from the 'tipping point' potentiation of Southerners who advocate their own decimation out of hatred and ignorance.

    However, whether one looks at Tom Watson's famous vow, never to be 'out-niggered' again, or at the origins of civil rights in Southern communist organizing, of which the central juncture was the steel mills and coal mines around Jefferson County, Alabama, the complexity of the Southern past, which of course extends to this moment too, means that no simple approach, no slogan or nostrum, no summative disposition, can possibly define a potent and plausible strategy for transformation.  One thing for sure that I never allow is a disrespect of social democracy.  If they say, "It's better'n soashlism,' I shoot right back, "What is socialism, anyway?"  I've had some interesting 'redneck conversions' that way on more than one occasion, I assure you.

    They were mostly backsliders, of course, I am so sure, but the point is that since a more socially democratic nation and world are the only things that will salvage human existence, engaging folks at this crucial conjunction seems to be one reasonable initial step.  And it always, as in one hundred per cent of the time, comes up.  Red-baiting is at the heart of White supremacist thinking, because the 'Reds' succeeded in bringing Black and White together time and again.

    Best of luck, thanks, keep me posted, and

    Ciao for now,

    I bow to those who seek the truth; I flee from those who have 'found' it.

    by SERMCAP on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 09:51:00 AM PDT

    •  Wow, interesting stuff... (0+ / 0-)

      You should do a whole diary on that!!  

      Thanks for your words.  I'm gonna keep on fighting!

      "A liberal is a conservative who's been hugged." ;o)

      by SteelMaggie13 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 11:34:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Let's keep in touch! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I've posted a diary about "Sub Prime Blues," a song that I wrote and that will come out as a video in finished form on Tuesday.

        I'm very new at this DK stuff, so any guidance and ideas about improvement would be very welcome.  You certainly are doing a great service, for which I am gloriously thankful.  

        I've 'almost' ended up in Birmingham on many occasions, though it's never quite worked out.  I reported for Free Speech Radio News and Pacifica for several years, as well as freelancing wherever else I could sell something.  

        Now, I mainly help Asians and Hispanics with English and Social Studies improvement.  I'd love to contribute reporting, if that ever might help the cause.

        Thanks, keep me posted, and

        Ciao for now,

        I bow to those who seek the truth; I flee from those who have 'found' it.

        by SERMCAP on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 05:33:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  keep up the good fight, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    from a fellow Alabamian.

    "Well, the reason for 'all this' (imitating the same movement she made indicating my shirt) is because THIS is a positive movement. I feel excited and joyful and hopeful about this election. I believe in this guy. I'm very happy with my candidate and  I support Obama completely. It's not the dismal, hateful, scary stuff the other side is offering. That's why."

    I love how you handled that, would love to hear that woman's reaction even if it's no reaction at all.

    I'm very very sorry there are so many people here in Alabama who behave that way.  I won't make excuses for them.  If they can go to their "ugly place" that quickly then they're not good people, I don't care if they spend all their extra time feeding the hungry, etc.  I'm ashamed those people are even in my species, let alone my state.

    I can assure you not everyone in Alabama feels the way those do, not even all McCain supporters.  (I knew a few who were mortified at what they heard last week at the McCain/Palin rallies.)  But those people who do feel and act that intolerant are way too plentiful for my taste.

  •  Talk softly, but carry... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    a brochure of the things Obama has done.  You can find an outline at Obama's Record.  Next time someone asks, pull it out your purse and say "This is why".  Others could be made with his policies.

  •  Oh hell no (5+ / 0-)

    Sometimes being a snippy bitch is entirely appropriate.

    It's one thing if you're trying to convince undecideds in a swing state, but if you're under attack by all means strike back.

    These people are trying to intimidate you and your sister.  Keep on fighting and don't let 'em pull you down.

  •  Hey I don't even know you (5+ / 0-)

    but I am really proud of you!

    I think you did exactly the right thing - you were very straightforward about exactly where you stand.  Of course I wouldn't necessarily recommend that in all situations, but I think you were great!

    I get these crazy emails passed on to me by my mother (you know with hundreds of other email addresses that have been passed around all over the place) about ACORN, about school records, etc.  None of that is racist because that's not what appeals where she lives.  But it's reached a point where it's all lies and spin.  Half her friends are for Obama, and half for McCain, but the McCain stuff is more and more of this character bashing spin.  sometimes I correct it, and sometimes I don't bother.  Most of the time I just send around my own articles that I think are relevant.

  •  I am totally sympathetic with Jen. My office mate, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelMaggie13, MarianLibrarian
    a white woman from Clear Water, FL, went on an abusive rampage one morning, calling Obama supporters "brainless". I am a Ph.D. and so is she. I wanted to slap her silly but I decided to just let it go. She is a freaking racist. She's just happened to mask her racism better than an average person but smart people like myself would just see right through it. Just know inside that those people are UGLY, the worse things that God had ever created. I treat them like a disease and I would not be associated with them. But at some point, I will stand up and strike back and when I do, she will need to see a psychotherapist.
  •  If someone tries this line on me... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I plan to ask them if they know what the repayment rate on loans for the Grameen Bank is. First, I'll probably get a blank stare. But Grameen, which microlends to the poorest of the poor throughout the world, has a 97% repayment rate.

    Similarly, I have read that groups like ACORN, who try to put poorer people in homes they can actually afford, also have high repayment rates. It's us middle class folks, trying to keep up with a consumer culture and thinking we need a 4000 square foot McMansion in the suburbs when a house half the size will do, that have more of a part in the mess; it's people like my ex-brother-in-law, who buy and try to build a house to flip, who then asked way too much, that are far more responsible than Jose Ses Cerveza in my neighborhood who works hard to pay the mortgage on the modest house a community organization knew he could afford.

    "Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight. You've got to kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight." --Bruce Cockburn, "Lovers In A Dangerous

    by AustinCynic on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 10:57:54 AM PDT

  •  If you're gonna wear the shirt.... (3+ / 0-)

    shouldn't you expect some confrontations?  I think we all learn from experience how to respond to unexpected political confrontations such as your sister's.  But if one walks into Walmart with an Obama shirt on, it really does call for some preparation.  

    And I suggest that your sister practice saying, "Hey, that language is not acceptable to me," and if the co-worker doesn't stop, tell her, "this could become a problem, we should stop."  And if she doesn't, it's an HR issue.

    •  No kidding! I've heard of two attacks over shirts (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      in the last week. Actually near-attacks, but I couldn't fit that in the subject line. One was a woman who called in to the Ed Schultz show. I didn't hear all of the details, but apparently a man swiped at her like he was trying to rip it off her chest. The other was my friend in a store, who was wearing one of those Michelle Obama as Rosie the Riveter fist-bumping shirts that they have on Zazzle. He lunged at her, and security escorted him out. I also have a coworker with one of those Shepard Fairey "Hope" poster stickers in her back window, and she was nearly run off the road by someone who wanted to make sure she saw all the anti-Obama stickers in his/her window. (Not pro-McCain, just anti-Obama.) It's getting dangerous to support your candidate.

      •  I wore my "Yes We Can" t-shirt (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SadTexan, SteelMaggie13

        with Obama's face on it to Home Depot in Owasso, OK. The cashier was silent and frowning. Each one has always asked me if I found everything I needed. Not this time.

        She charged me twice for a multi-pack of paper towels, extra $11. I didn't catch it right away but after walking away I counted my items in my head, checked my reciept and went back.

        I asked her politely if she could fix it. She said no, told me to go to the service desk, picked up the phone, talked to somebody and slammed it down.

        I got to the service desk. The lady grabbed my receipt, didn't talk to me, fixed it, said nothing and handed it back.

        I am Cuban, racially white, one little t-shirt aggravated them?

        You know, I don't get mad when I see Che t-shirts. Che didn't kill the t-shirt wearer's loved ones. I understand. I certainly don't get mad or treat the person bad for it.

        Obama is a United States Senator! A nominee for president of the Democratic Party of the United States for crying out loud! What the hell is wrong with these people?

  •  This goes on around the country (4+ / 0-)

    Anyone who thinks this sort of attitude is restricted to the South should read this transcript of an interview with the Minnesota woman who told McCain at his rally the other day that Obama is an Arab:


    A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having // Swords Crossed

    by quaoar on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 11:10:07 AM PDT

  •  Just grow a pair, that's all. You seem to be (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    doing just that.  Stand your ground on the honesty, realism, the righteousness of your positions.  

    You made a good point about them ruling for the last 12 years and see where it has gotten us (actually, since 1995 and Newt in the House with only minor Democratic control of the Senate and totally since 2002 in the House, Senate and Presidency;  2006 was just a start back.and the Dems had to play it careful, alas, too careful.

    Make a point that when Clinton handed Bush the reigns he gave him budget surpluses, not record deficits as now. His plans also included paying off the 5 Trillion Dollar National debt by 2010.  Imagine how strong we might be then, as a nation, even with these financial parasites all around us!!!  Where are we now??  Heading past 10 and toward 11,315,000,000,000 (Trillion)dollars in debt, in a recession, and on the verge of the next Republican Great depression in less than a Century!!!  

    Many saw this (e.g. from May, Aug), even Bu$hitCo knew of this for 6 months, but did nothing about it, until now, when they are tyring to bail out thier buddies for a few weeks and salvage McInsane's chances.

    You, and ALL OF US, have to confront these delusional right wing fucktards and their society destroying, Earth despoiling, future robbing and people killing ideology with force and conviction.  Do not run away and cry, do not get weak kneeed, this is not the time for the faint of heart.  Practice with each other, yell, scream, get angry, so you can be forceful yet controlled when you encounter these delusional ass clowns and assorted Reich Wing criminals in real life.

    I am glad you were trying to be positive, and all.  I know that is a good thing to be and try to communicate. You are better than I on that at this point.  I am past fed up.  I have learned that you have to be prepared to go medieval on their dumb asses (I know I am quick to the tigger, but there is so little time left to change course peacfully).  

    In the end, to quote subject of the "why", "that one":

    So I've got news for you..... We all put our country first.

    You make a big election about small things.

    I say... ENOUGH!  On November 4th, we must stand up and say: "Eight is enough."

    E N O U G H ! ! ! ! !

    You don't negotiate with fascists, you defeat them in the name of democracy. --Ambr. Joe Wilson

    by FightTheFuture on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 11:23:04 AM PDT

  •  Keep your chin up (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I posted a similar diary today, also in the south, we have to stick together if we are going to make a change.  I really believe that when Obama wins, and people see that he is not all the terrible things they think he is they will start to come around.  I truly believe this is the greatest moment we have had to truly change the political and socially conservative environment in which we find ourselves.  I am excited for this change.

    Reveling in Rebelling in Arkansas!

    by JeremyJD on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 11:40:57 AM PDT

  •  Tough indeed .... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Sympathies from rural North Texas! Some people look at me as though I've just landed from the moon when I strike right back when someone starts with the racism or the Republican bullshit. You wore your shirt to Wal-Mart. Kudos! Right there you got a lot of brownie points! You responded forcefully and directly to the woman who challenged. Surprised the heck out of her I bet! Most Democrats in my area have been hesitant to fight back with the same vigor as they're being attacked. That's changed a lot this year. Good for you!

  •  We cannot and do not need to (1+ / 0-)
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    win them all.  Every single person you talked to and registered and gave a hopeful thought to is one that may look at Obama's Presidency, YES, PRESIDENCY with a little different view.

    Racism, homophobia and fear of what isn't known is something that we can overcome only by having each and every person who is a racist meet and talk with and understand people of different backgrounds.

    IF Obama brings his message of hope as I know he will, a lot of these jerks will be muted and will know that they either need to jump on the wagon or be left behind.

    I predict a very different landscape in four years.

    You have done your country a great service.  Be proud of your effort and stand tall.  Every time I SEE Palin I feel rage, but then I see Obama and I feel hopeful again.  We're on the right side, the HOPE side.

    "My Momma always taught me to play by the rules, and if you don't that's called cheatin'." - Donna Brazile

    by jjmn on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:02:03 PM PDT

  •  "Why? Because I am looking forward (1+ / 0-)
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    to taking my country back from people like you."

    what I would have told her.  

    "Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." - Voltaire

    by DrFrankLives on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:03:57 PM PDT

  •  I can relate to this. (2+ / 0-)
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    SteelMaggie13, CcVenussPromise

     Personally, I'm a Biker.  I ride a Harley Davidson, and there's one thing I've noticed when I wear my Obama Tee on the road.  The rest of the Bikers either Love it, or Hate it, and there is no neutral.  In either case they better get use to it, because I'll continue to wear it.  OBAMA '08

  •  Oh my gosh... (2+ / 0-)
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    SteelMaggie13, CcVenussPromise

    ...I had an experience just like that in Panama City Beach. We went into Sharky's Diner on the beach (me and my parents) and our waitress had on a yellow ribbon that said "Support Our Troops". She looked at my t-shirt, which was an Obama-Biden Democrats Abroad shirt, sneered at me, and then left to get our food.
    The guy at the other table was real scruffy. Had a long gray pony tail, and groty beard, sunglasses, jean jacket, and reeked of cigarette smoke.
    He looked at me (at least I think he did) and asked me what kind of a terrorist I thought I was. I responded with a "Yeah. Good day to you, too."
    He didn't take to kindly to my answer, flipped me off, snarled and said, "If you support America and our allies, then you should burn that shirt and burn a Muslim, too."

    Now, I know that people can be quite extreme in places like Okaloosa and Bay County (I think those two should really belong to Alabama), but never before had I heard such a racist comment from a complete stranger.

    "It's great to see that you are in favor of the kind of equality that this country should be about," I replied. He wasn't to happy about this. To piss him off, I kind of flexed my chest in his direction so as to pronounce the Obama logo on it for the rest of the meal. My parents were completely flabbergasted, but we didn't speak until after we started to leave and he said, "You are an asshole for not supporting the heroes of our country like John McCain."

    I winked, gave him a thumbs up, and left.

  •  Sending up a prayer for you and your sis (2+ / 0-)
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    SteelMaggie13, CcVenussPromise

    I grew up in Old Hickory, TN. My mother is from Piedmont, AL and my father is from Bell Buckle, TN.  I feel you totally.

    I have a best friend whom believes and introduces me as the smartest person he has ever met. We grew up two houses apart. And yet, he actually pushes that radio brainwashing at me and when I smack down every argument, he turtles into borderline racist memes (I'm AfAm, he's white). I love him but he is not reachable; I won't take his calls until after the election.

    Dennis Kucinich could have run with Dave Chappelle and been a better ticket than McCain/Palin.

    by niteskolar on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:29:28 PM PDT

  •  Birmingham, also called Bombingham. (1+ / 0-)
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    Actually, many in Birmingham are truly nice and decent people.  Unfortunately, they are usually the monkies whose mouths are closed by fear.  SPEAK UP!!!  There are many in "Bombingham" in Alabama and the other southern states who "nicely" sit silently while racists and other creatures of intolerance lynch and shoot, bomb and burn black churchs and abortion facilities all over the country.  SPEAK UP!!!

    A private gyn office offering full gyn services including abortion care to 18 weeks.

    by william f harrison on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:35:36 PM PDT

  •  keep it up (1+ / 0-)
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    and keep that smile

  •  Branson, Missouri (2+ / 0-)
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    SteelMaggie13, CcVenussPromise

    OK, Branson is not Alabama and there are a lot of working people in Branson.  However, if Obama wins Branson it will be a landslide in Missouri.

    I was there last weekend.  I walked into a grocery store on the strip wearing an Obama lapel pin.

    The clerk checking me out said something to the effect it is important to elect Obama.

    We are everywhere!

    Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren. Bertolt Brecht

    by MoDem on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 12:47:55 PM PDT

  •  fox just whipped cream on radio lie turd pie (1+ / 0-)
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    fox has a much smaler viewership than listeners to the GOP talk radio. most fox viewers are already recipients of the talk radio bushit, and th erepetition of radio 24/7 in the car or at work is much more effective. by the time it gets to fox it's been shoved down the earholes of 50MIL earlier in the day or week by limbaugh and hannity.

    ignoring the talk radio monopoly continues to be the biggest political blunder in decades

    by certainot on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 01:09:01 PM PDT

  •  Nope hope for Alabammy! (0+ / 0-)

    and they deserve what they GET!

  •  omg (1+ / 0-)
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    this is like what i go through daily with friends and family.. just know you are not alone!!!!!! i don't have a good poker face either.. i can feel my blood boil under my skin and i just want to attack.  i think one day im gonna go crazy, i just have to keep calm.. you just have to remind yourself how stupid the people are who just come up to you yammering racist bs... don't they know how STUPID they sound?  i always say sorry i just don't operate that way and really that's not the way i choose to live my life, in fear.. i grew up in republican lily white ville  45 minutes south of chicago.. it's hard to get out of the city to come back to my hometown sometimes...  yesterday i saw a woman driving with a w04 sign and a mccain sign next to each other, and imlike good you know i'm glad she's driving around with them next to each other...  i mean seriously what else would w have to do to convince these nuts to defect?

    "He keeps saying 'sacrifice' and the 'war on terror,' and you turn around and he's in a field of poppies with Lance Armstrong." --Jon Stewart

    by laurenpatrizi on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 01:48:26 PM PDT

  •  Hamburger Helper vs. Chateaubriand (1+ / 0-)
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    It's clear that McCain and Palin have been running a red meat campaign, any hack can step into the heat of the kitchen to cut up a slab of raw meat and toss it into the crowd, but it takes a skilled chef to create and visually present a satisfying meal to the hungry patrons. That is the difference between the McCain/Palin ticket and the Obama/Biden ticket.

    "Our particular principles of religion are a subject of accountability to God alone. I inquire after no man's, and trouble none with mine." --Thomas Jefferson

    by glb3 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 01:52:43 PM PDT

  •  Stay with it, Sister... (1+ / 0-)
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    I'm glad you have been encouraged.  My wife and I live in Arkansas near the MO border.  This area is red, deep red.  Today my wife and I made our weekly Wal-Mart run.  The W/M is just over the border in Jane, MO.  Benton Co, AR and McDonald Co, MO are as redneck as they get.  So, we decided to go'trolling for Republicans.'  We walked all over the store, filling our cart.  Not one person said anything about the buttons, a few furtive glances, but no confrontations.  Of course, I am 6'0, 190. That may have something to do with it. In the dairy aisle, a family walks up proclaiming, "An Obama button, way to go!"  Then the check out.  The two ladies (Associates) at the register pointed to our buttons and said quietly, "He's our guy, too."
    So, keep wearing those buttons, Sister.

    Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining!

    by Arkieboy on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 01:55:22 PM PDT