I tried to do a quick perusal of the CA-8 literature, and it continually strikes me that we, as liberals, try to engage the hateful speech coming from anti-gay marriage, anti-liberal, anti-anything the christian right doesn't like - directly. I think it's interesting, because this community, especially, is trained (almost in a pavlovian sense) to discard strawman arguments, and always, always, always reframe the argument into one that can be discussed.
To put it simply, I don't believe that we can convince many, enough, or even a large percentage of people that they're wrong to hate gay marriage or to fear it. But I do believe that everyone is reasonable. And I believe that this proposition is much like many attempts by the christian right's to insert morality into legislation.
I believe this is wrong, I think you do too, and more to the point, I think that many good, god fearing, republicans do too.
I'll keep the citations down to the rec-listed diaries today.
leftside of christine wrote a poingnant diary that illustrates the finality of someone changing their mind from the perspective of someone who's moral compass has shifted to include human rights in their faith:
It seems as if the conservative christians have forgotten what Jesus' message was about. It was about love and it was about acceptance. As I recall from scripture, the pharisees didn't like this. So why do we twist the words of Jesus Christ to fit our views. Why do we use the bible as a weapon to destroy the hope of people? This makes no sense. My eyes have been open today and I can finally see. Tomorrow I will be dubbed as a 'victim of the gay agenda' This statement in general is horrendous. There is no 'gay agenda' there are people, people who want to get married.
I think this is what we, as progressives, liberals, human rights activists and human beings are hoping for from those across the "aisle" on this issue.
I just don't see it happening. This is why:
From the Yes on 8 people: Gay marriage leads to destruction of churches, not literally, but certainly logistically.
Approximately one third of those voting "no" on 8 - and a significant number of undecided voters - would be more likely to vote yes if the proposition's failure could compromise the tax status of religious schools or if children in public schools would be taught that marriage was a relationship "between any two adults."
And this is the problem. We're simply not going to change the minds of every christian who thinks like this. Christians who interpret the bible this way truly believe that gay marriage is wrong, immoral, and leads to eternal damnation. Of course, they also don't want to believe that they have been lied to, as per law.com which nicely details the false use of a legal opinion to scare voters
But the author of a newspaper op-ed cited in the ad as the basis for Peterson's comments said the pro-Prop 8 campaign "completely distorted" his position.
"I never, ever, ever said anything about if churches do not perform same-sex marriages that you'll lose your tax-exempt status," said Robert DeKoven, a professor at California Western School of Law in San Diego. DeKoven's commentary in the July 3 edition of the Gay & Lesbian Times argues that it's unfair to give tax breaks to politically active religious institutions but not to individual activists and donors.
Of course it's too late to counter this argument now. But it's still important to recognize the levels of distortion that are thrown around.
OK, enough background, let's get down to my thought. It's really simple, and not original, but is still something that I don't hear enough of on any channel, panel, or watercooler agenda.
Does america want to be in the business of legislation of morality? Is this something that most Christians in America are OK with? I think this is where the debate needs to start. We, as citizens can make the choice that we want the government to monitor our activity and enforce the ethical standards that the majority agree with, but I fear where the final destination of this policy leads.
"And then they came for me And by that time there was no one left to speak up."