Skip to main content

Please call or e-mail Father Jay Scott Newman and encourage him to also deny communion to pro-death penalty republicans.

A South Carolina Roman Catholic priest, Father Jay Scott Newman, has told his parishioners that they should refrain from receiving Holy Communion if they voted for Barack Obama because the Democratic president-elect supports abortion, and supporting him "constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil."

http://www.breitbart.com/...
http://www.stmarysgvl.org

Please call or e-mail Father Jay Scott Newman and encourage him to also deny communion to pro-death penalty republicans.

Because he thinks abortion is first degree murder, and because there is the death penalty in South Carolina, it means that he and republican followers believe it is okay to execute a woman, her husband (maybe he helped pay for it), her doctor (of course), doctor's nurse (accessory) etc....  Does executing 4 or more people sound pro-lfe?

Father Jay Scott Newman
864.679.4101
jayscottnewman@mac.com

Originally posted to Withdraw the Republicans on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:19 PM PST.

Poll

Should Priests Deny Communion to Republican Pro-Death Penalty Politicians?

24%42 votes
5%10 votes
69%119 votes

| 171 votes | Vote | Results

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

    •  and priests, what hypocrites (0+ / 0-)

      ok, not all priests....

    •  Fr Newman's contact info (0+ / 0-)

      St. Mary’s Church
      111 Hampton Avenue
      Greenville, South Carolina 29601

      Phone 864.271.8422
      Fax 864.370.9880

      •  As bad as this is (4+ / 0-)

        I'm not sure putting contact information on a site like this is appropriate.  This is an issue that should be dealt with within the Catholic Church.  If you are really concerned, the proper move would be to write to a higher-level organization such as USCCB. Writing to the Priest will likely have little impact.

        -- in this unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope.

        by derekd on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:38:02 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Oh it will have an impact (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DaleA, duckhunter

          it will galvanize him, and more importantly, his parishioners, against you or whoever they perceive you represent.  And if its the Democratic party, isn't that the result you want.

          If you think you're too small to be effective, you've never been in the dark with a mosquito.

          by marykk on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:40:53 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Pointing out hypocrisy is always worthwhile (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DaleA, crose

            Sorry.

            "The military industrial complex not only controls our government, lock, stock and barrel, but they control our culture." - Mike Gravel

            by Wilberforce on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:43:55 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  and the hypocrisy here is? (0+ / 0-)

              Grandma used to call me "That One" but she had twenty-something grand-kids and Alzheimers. Now, that "That one" is President!

              by duckhunter on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:46:00 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Umm... making abortion a big issue, (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                neroden

                while supporting or ignoring  war and the death penalty.

                Duh.

                "The military industrial complex not only controls our government, lock, stock and barrel, but they control our culture." - Mike Gravel

                by Wilberforce on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:47:56 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Do you know (0+ / 0-)

                  for a fact that he supports war and the death penalty?  Because there are an awful lot of Catholics who don't.  

                  If you think you're too small to be effective, you've never been in the dark with a mosquito.

                  by marykk on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:49:35 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  He is making this an issue, instead (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    neroden

                    of the other issues.

                    So yeah.

                    "The military industrial complex not only controls our government, lock, stock and barrel, but they control our culture." - Mike Gravel

                    by Wilberforce on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:51:02 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Didn't Prof. Douglas Kmeic's priest get push back (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      duckhunter, marykk

                      from his bishop for the same thing out in the LA area? He endorsed Obama and laid outr the pro-Obama Catholic argument at Pro-Life Pro-Obama. I sued it often for support. I have a "People of Faith Support Obama" button. Still wearing it. It gets kind questions of interest.

                      Pray for the dead and fight like hell for the living~~Mother Jones

                      by CA Berkeley WV on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:59:47 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I don;t know about that, but (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        neroden

                        There used to be many. But they're being purged.

                        If they constantly support all life, then I would respect their position.

                        "The military industrial complex not only controls our government, lock, stock and barrel, but they control our culture." - Mike Gravel

                        by Wilberforce on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 10:02:42 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  I'm sure Sister Cecilia, a 106 year old nun in (3+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Chun Yang, marykk, Ajipon

                        Rome, would appreciate your button.  She is possibly the oldest person to vote in the 2008 election.  She voted in her first presidential election in fifty-five years and registered to vote to vote for Obama.

                        Sister Cecilia Gaudette, who last voted for President Eisenhower in 1952, has registered to vote and says she will vote for Democrat Barack Obama.

                        Although hard of hearing, she keeps herself informed by reading newspapers and watching TV at the convent.

                        "I'm encouraged by Senator Obama," she says.

                        "I've never met him, but he seems to be a good man with a good private life. That's the first thing. Then he must be able to govern," she adds.

                        Grandma used to call me "That One" but she had twenty-something grand-kids and Alzheimers. Now, that "That one" is President!

                        by duckhunter on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 10:21:25 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Great story! (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          marykk

                          Someplace they were denying nuns the right to vote even though they had never missed an election because they did not have the "correct" ID. Indiana during the primary?

                          Pray for the dead and fight like hell for the living~~Mother Jones

                          by CA Berkeley WV on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 10:27:26 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                    •  which is his right to do. this is a religious (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      marykk

                      matter.  no laws are being broken.  and yes he is making choice an issue, instead of other issues in this case. still, he may have spoken about the immorality of the death or the wars at another time.  this is not hypocrisy this a matter of religion,freedom thereof.  is it distasteful? yes it is.  But you, rather the parishoners in this case have a choice here; go or don't go to confession and/or communion, leave the church, leave the religion.

                      Grandma used to call me "That One" but she had twenty-something grand-kids and Alzheimers. Now, that "That one" is President!

                      by duckhunter on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 10:01:10 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Actually I also have a choice to say my bit (0+ / 0-)

                        Or not-- despite your BS--which essentially says that's it's 'religious freedom' for this turkey to speak, but not acceptable for me to reply.

                        "The military industrial complex not only controls our government, lock, stock and barrel, but they control our culture." - Mike Gravel

                        by Wilberforce on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 10:06:12 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  have your say. as you aware though, there is no (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          marykk

                          illegal activity here, it's a religious matter.  so it would be like bitching about the wind.

                          Grandma used to call me "That One" but she had twenty-something grand-kids and Alzheimers. Now, that "That one" is President!

                          by duckhunter on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 10:12:50 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                      •  His right is to revoke his tax-deductible status. (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        deliciae, Calamity Jean

                        As a priest, he can speak his hypocritical, authoritarian, bigoted political views, but if he does so, he'd better ask his parish if they're OK with losing their tax-deductible status for his candidate advocacy.

                        -5.63, -8.10. Learn about Duverger's Law.

                        by neroden on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 10:15:35 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  It IS hypocrisy (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Dori, Calamity Jean
                        Actually, as a "matter of religion" the Roman Catholic Church's official position is unwaveringly pro-life (at least as the church defines life).  So the death penalty is immoral, according to church doctrine, because it takes a life.  It is therefore most certainly hypocrisy for this priest to deny communion to anyone who voted for Obama while at the same time granting the sacrament to those who, say, voted for Dubya, who's a strong supporter of the death penalty.  

                        Before you go saying what is or is not hypocritical, try to inform yourself about the subject matter.  You don't seem to know much about the Catholic Church's position on these issues.

              •  obvious (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Wilberforce

                admonishing members of the Church for voting pro-choice while not railing about the death penalty (which is equally offensive in the eyes of the Catholic Church, at least outside the US).

                -- in this unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope.

                by derekd on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:48:34 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  Agreed, but do it where it will matter more (0+ / 0-)

              If the kid at the McDonald's counter spits in my soda, I don't yell at him, I tell his manager.  There is a clear hierarchy in the Catholic Church and contacting those above this guy will have a much greater impact.  It will at least stop them from posting political blogs on the tax-exempt Church website.

              -- in this unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope.

              by derekd on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:46:56 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Contacting the Pope? Good luck on that. (0+ / 0-)

                The new Pope is the problem.

                He's one of the worst in memory. And that's really saying something.

                But that doesn't mean every one else is blameless.

                "The military industrial complex not only controls our government, lock, stock and barrel, but they control our culture." - Mike Gravel

                by Wilberforce on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:50:02 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

        •  The contact info was on the church's website (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Go Kid Hugo

          and secondly,  Fr. Newman obviously issued this press release in order to get attention.  Its not just some priest quietly acting on his conscience.  

          I certainly dont want to galvanize them though.  I dont know how to delete a comment of mine though.

          •  You're right (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Go Kid Hugo

            I commented before following the links in the diary.  The web site is like a political blog.  One hundred percent inappropriate for a Church.

            -- Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.

            by derekd on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 10:24:14 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  Isn't there a difference (8+ / 0-)

    between telling parishioners to search their own consciences and refrain from taking communion if they believe they have violated a condition precedent and withholding communion?

    And even if not, is it a matter of anyone's concern here how a cleric chooses to operate within the confines of his congregation?

    And exactly what purpose is served by encouraging people who don't know the guy and have no dog in the hunt to chase him down and (figuratively) throttle him?  All it does is galvanize sentiment against your cause.

    Kind of a RedState approach, no?

    If you think you're too small to be effective, you've never been in the dark with a mosquito.

    by marykk on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:25:47 PM PST

    •  I was wondering the same thing... (0+ / 0-)

      ...although my fingers are itching to send that email regardless.

      The day may come, when the rest of the animal creation may acquire those rights which never could have been withholden from them but by the hand of tyranny.

      by Tetris on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:31:05 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  My suggestion (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Jarhead 215

        write it if you must, put it in your draft file for a few days and then see if it's really so important to you.

        If you think you're too small to be effective, you've never been in the dark with a mosquito.

        by marykk on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:32:19 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  My revenge. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Calamity Jean

          I guess I can take solace in the fact that I become an atheist primarily after becoming disillusioned by f*tards like this. If a major religion can be used to compel people to vote for Republicans, then is there anything a major religion can't be contorted to support?

          The day may come, when the rest of the animal creation may acquire those rights which never could have been withholden from them but by the hand of tyranny.

          by Tetris on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:42:52 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  i dont follow you (0+ / 0-)

      Isn't there a difference between telling parishioners to search their own consciences and refrain from taking communion if they believe they have violated a condition precedent and withholding communion?

      Difference between what? I can guess, but I could be wrong. Politics + Religion = catastrophe. I say hunt him down.

    •  I concur. A problem arises when a priest, (5+ / 0-)

      preacher, imam, minister or rabbi at a tax-exempt religious organization uses its resources in support of or opposition to any candidate for public office or to advocate for issues and political positions identified with the a particular candidate or candidates.  This is a religious matter, the election is over.

      Grandma used to call me "That One" but she had twenty-something grand-kids and Alzheimers. Now, that "That one" is President!

      by duckhunter on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:40:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Poor Fr. Newman (4+ / 0-)

    I'm afraid that with the publication of his contact information here, he is going to find out the true meaning of "Reap the Wind."

    now it is autumn, and the falling fruit, and the long journey toward oblivion. Have you built your ship of death; oh, have you?

    by Jarhead 215 on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:26:10 PM PST

  •  I've never been a fan of crackers... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cellopaddy

    Look, I don't begrudge people their supertitions and their goofy ceremonies, but that whole communion thing always seemed kind of creepy to me.

  •  No tip jar? (5+ / 0-)

    Great diary. I am going to email Fr. Newman right away.  Thanks for providing the link.  And it should also be stated that the POPE has been quite clear on his stance on IRAQ too.  Therefore Fr. Newman should deny communion to anyone who supported the IRAQ war (If he is going to deny communion to anyone).

    Priests are making a terrible mistake denying anyone communion.  Communion is supposed to be between the person and God.  The person's conscience will tell people whether or not they should receive communion.  Not the Priest!  

    Post a tip jar, you deserve some mojo!   Rec'd

  •  Honestly? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    polecat, pollbuster, marykk, Calamity Jean

    I don't think there should be any denial of communion either way. Jesus spent the whole Bible preaching forgiveness, the Bible goes so far as to say anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, so I think Catholic churches should practice what Jesus preached.

    I'm a gay Catholic for what it's worth.

    "ENOUGH!" - President-Elect Barack Obama

    by indiemcemopants on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:30:03 PM PST

  •  They should shut the fuck up and live (0+ / 0-)

    what Jesus taught and how he lived instead of making shit up.  You don't have to be a Christian to understand that was the point of the story of his life.

  •  It is a private church - they (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    marykk, tnproud2b

    can do what ever they want and those who don't like what he is saying and remain - not sure what it says about them.

    McCain = "A whine, a swear word, and P.O.W."

    by ETinKC on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:32:34 PM PST

    •  no, they can't preach politics (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dori, pollbuster, Calamity Jean

      unless they are willing to give up their tax exemptions.

      •  It tends to be a grey area - (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        marykk

        they cant promote an candidate in a campaign but criticizing a candidate who has already been elected is certainly fair game.  I agree that it should be called out and should be broadcast to try to deny them business but beyond that it is up to each of us to not associate with groups like this.

        McCain = "A whine, a swear word, and P.O.W."

        by ETinKC on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:45:19 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  This is not a grey area, either. Contact IRS. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Calamity Jean

        Explicitly attacking one candidate is directly forbidden by the tax code.  I hope this priest has asked his parish to approve the removal of 501(c)(3) status from that parish.  If not, we should make the request for him.

        -5.63, -8.10. Learn about Duverger's Law.

        by neroden on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 10:17:06 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  this is not preaching politics. tax exempt...... (0+ / 0-)

        organizations are prohibited from "intervening in a political campaign".  this means that the organization or representatives thereof cannot endorse any candidate for public office and its resources cannot be used in support of or opposition to and canidate for public office.  This includes
        "political issue advocacy", advocateiing for positions on issues that are identified with a particular candidate or candidates (a party essentially).  The election is over and the priest is not telling people how to vote.  No laws have been broken.

        Grandma used to call me "That One" but she had twenty-something grand-kids and Alzheimers. Now, that "That one" is President!

        by duckhunter on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 10:31:18 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  they can't do whatever they like (0+ / 0-)

      as long as they are taking a tax exemption in recognition of the seperation of church matters and state matters.

      "If BS were currency, Palin would be able to bail out Wall Street by herself." Kathleen Parker

      by pollbuster on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:44:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't think any church should be tax exempt - (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        marykk

        but on the other hand if a church was telling its members that supporting anyone who supported the war in Iraq is wrong - would we care so much?

        McCain = "A whine, a swear word, and P.O.W."

        by ETinKC on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:47:01 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Funny you should mention that (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          neroden

          because there's a diary further down that is really much more important and has gotten no attention at all, while people are busy being outraged about this guy.

          If you think you're too small to be effective, you've never been in the dark with a mosquito.

          by marykk on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 10:01:02 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  This kind of thing makes me sick to my stomach (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean, Jarhead 215

    There was a radio show in my town, just before the election, that had people calling up spewing this crap.  They were saying that any Catholic who votes for Obama should be thrown out of the Church.

    This is EXACTLY what the founders feared when they established the wall between church and state.  It's bad for the state and it's bad for the church.

    The point in the diary is an excellent one.  I've often wondered why the US Churches have put abortion above death penalty.  The Catholic Church (outside of the US) puts equal weight on both issues.  While I disagree with the stance on abortion, I respect the consistency that is absent from the US version.

    -- in this unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope.

    by derekd on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:34:14 PM PST

    •  The Catholic church down the street from me puts (0+ / 0-)

      crosses on their lawn for the abortion issue every year. The Priest there was kind of pissed at me when I asked why he didn't have crosses out for those in the death penalty and for those killed in illegal wars.

      It was the church I was baptized in.

      I finally left the Roman Catholic after the child predator priest issue. Finally told my dad last week that I wanted nothing to do with the Roman Catholic church anymore, I even threw my Blue Coat Award that I was given by the Knights of Columbus in the trash last week.

      Right now I'm trying to decide if I prefer Wiccan or the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

  •  Read the Bible? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    marykk, crose

    Really have you? Both Testaments?

    Fucking crazy shit.

    So after reading the Bible a few times, and witting a few research papers on the Bible, the answer to your question is no.

  •  Am I really the only "No" vote on the poll??? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ETinKC, shann

    As of now, there's only one and I voted that way.  I can't be the only person who thinks it's just as wrong to deny communion to somebody because they don't oppose the death penalty as it is to deny them communion because they voted pro-choice.  Really??  Hopefully may of the 34 voting for the last option think that nobody should be denied communion because of their political position.  Please say it's so.

    -- in this unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope.

    by derekd on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:53:47 PM PST

  •  Great Counter Point (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dori, JCPOK, marykk

    The Catholic Church, to which I belong, is strongly anti death penalty. So why not threaten the same sanction to proponents of that particular brand of state murder?

    Canada - where a pack of smokes is ten bucks and a heart transplant is free.

    by dpc on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:56:39 PM PST

  •  Problem of Selective Dogma and Evangelium Vitae (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    marykk, Calamity Jean

    Father Newman is no different than the multitude of other Catholics who chose to selectively cite Church dogma for partisan political purposes.  More specifically and according to the last encyclical to address both abortion and the death penalty (Pope John Paul's Evangelium Vitae in March 1995), use of the death penalty rises to the same level of intrinsic evil as abortion in cases where a society has adequate judicial mechanisms to punish and jail criminals who commit capital offenses. Pope John Paul and Cardinal Ratzinger (the current Pope) went on to explain that it is almost impossible to imagine a situation where a civilized nation did not have the adeqtate judicial means to suppress a criminal.  Therefore, use of the death penalty can almost never be justified under current Catholic doctrine.

    Yet, you won't hear many Republican Catholics  call for withholding communion from parishioners who vote for candidates who support the death penalty.  A few Republican politicians  - Frank Keating while Governor of Oklahoma and Pat Buchanan - who are outspoken in their belief that Catholics should always vote for the "pro-life" candidate have been confronted on their hypocrisy with respect to the Church's teachings and the death penalty and you want to know what their response was.... you won't believe this - they said the Pope got it right on abortion but that he was misguided when it came to the death penalty.   I kid you not.  I guess Keating and Buchanan believe that papal infallibility is a selective and transient concept.  

  •  Catholocism is not democratic (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    thebluecrayon

    I can't imagine emailing would do a darned thing.

    Although I was raised in that religion, I haven't practiced (or believed) in decades.  But I remember a few things.  Like when my husband (then fiance) and I had to endure pre-cana (marriage) counseling.  NO BIRTH CONTROL.  Be "fruitful and multiply."  Are you kidding me?  That was during the Reagan recession (I mean, BEYOND the fact that most young people used birth control and had premarital sex!).  Who could afford a boatload of kids like that anyway?

    Then there are the divorced population of that religion.  They can't receive communion (remember Kerry when he was running?) because it was considered a sin.  You COULD file for an anulment -- a VERY lengthy and laborious process.  If said request is granted, it means the marriage never existed.  How silly is that?  I suppose anullment also returns the former married female to virgin status?

    I'll only state the obvious scandals in the church over sexual abuse, and how they (did NOT) handle it.

    Your argument that communion be denied by pro-death penalty republicans is a little too logical.  But it also affords pro-death Republicans to LIE about their stance on that matter in order to receive the "body of Christ."  Same is true (and happens) with divorced Catholics and Catholics who engage in pre-marital sex and Catholics who have had abortions.  It's not like the priests issue lie detector tests or anything (I think they would if they could!).

    But Catholicism, as is true with many religions, is not logical.  And, again, not a democracy.  At best, it's a bureaucracy.  Moreso, it's a misogynistic (sp) heirarchy.  Made of of many more white guys than those of color.  

    We've reached a point where we can have a female POTUS and/or a black male POTUS, and it's grand.  The Catholic Church isn't there yet.  Only recently they decided to allow widowers (clearly NOT celebate) to become priests.  And that's only because there is a shortage of them.

    Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4 isn't McCain. It's ignorance. -Michael Moore

    by RoseZ on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 10:29:09 PM PST

    •  The West's Oldest Bureaucracy-- (0+ / 0-)

      And no more definitive proof of Darwinism exists.

      Evolution proceeds FORWARD not UPWARD.

      The church will outlive the Enlightenment, which contrary to the fantasies of the left, is already dead.

      The power is the message to bureaucratize McLuhan.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 11:13:35 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  When You Find the Priest Suggestion Box (0+ / 0-)

    Please publish its location.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 11:10:47 PM PST

  •  Pinchot (0+ / 0-)

    Unfortunately the Catholic Church had no problem palling around with General Pinchot, and gave him communion, am I missing something?

  •  I voted no because bishop wrong in first place (0+ / 0-)

    I am absolutely against capital punishment for every reason you can muster, including the one that allowing Tim McVeigh to drop his appeals so we could shoot him up amounted to destroying evidence toward understanding the complete story behind the Murrah Building bombing.

    Because one of the thigns I believe is that the government shouldn't be in the business of ending life, I an somewhat reluctantly anti-choice. I believe America has a right to privacy that includes a woman's right to control her fertility, and what I believe doesn't extend to even emergency contraception. But in general terms, I think abortion is wrong. That said, I do not see any alternative to legal abortion that I can at all supuport.

    I voted cheerfully for Obama, as I have for Dem presidential candidates since George McGovern. My own belief is that our policies will do more to reduce abortion than the GOP's. And we will do it without being anti-woman, anti-young, anti-sexually active and generally anti-people not like me. In fact, one reason Democrats have historically done more to reduce the rates of teenage, unwanted and termined pregnancies is because we aren't anti-woman, anti-young and so forth.

    I'm not a Catholic but often attend a Catholic church. Never been a candidate for conversion. Every time I warm to the idea they go and make an ex-Nazi Pope. If I was a Catholic, I'd have to ask myself: Would I accept communion from a priest who enabled the Bush administration to wage an aggressive war after bearing false witness about its legitimacy, and in the process tortured human beings and created this public-private partnership in which no one can really monitor private forces' killing of civilians?

    i personally think administering communion requires a greater degree of purity than receiving communion. I'd go further. No one who truly needs the sacrament of holy communion comes without stains of some sort. Yes, I know life and death is more important than stuff like shoplifting, lewd and lascivious conduct or supressing the minority vote in a federal election. But aggressive war, torture and - yes - participating in executions? Those are just as much life issues as abortion, much more life issues than the use of contraception or some of the other sexual sins whose prohibition involves the Levitican belief that every male orgasm needs to have the potential of fertilizing an egg.

    So I'd say don't prohibit either from taking communion. In fact, if receiving communion makes someone less likely to kill someone, denying someone communion is sinful. But if I was able to receive Catholic communion, I would certainly want to know where those hands had been....

    Have you heard? The vice president's gone mad. - Bob Dylan, 1966

    by textus on Fri Nov 14, 2008 at 12:27:21 AM PST

  •  Sadly the catholic church does not condemn (0+ / 0-)

    death penalty.

    So the first thing they should do is take a stance against this themselves.

    Love all the people !

    by Mariken on Fri Nov 14, 2008 at 12:49:53 AM PST

  •  You've made a point that (0+ / 0-)
    exposes the folly of selecting a candidate based on a single issue.  

    How one can select a candidate based on his/her anti-abortion stance when that same candidate is unwilling to support government programs to help children after they are born is beyond me.  

    The same is true for the death penalty. Are Catholics simply to ignore a candidate's pro-death penalty position because he/she opposes abortion. I oppose abortion except in limited circumstances, but I won't be told by a priest that abortion is the sole litmus test issue to consider when selecting a candidate to support

  •  By the way this fool (0+ / 0-)

    Newman is a "born-again" Catholic.  We have a lot of those in South Carolina.  For some reason they flee the Baptists or the Methodists and become Catholic zealots bringing all the baggage of old-time southern religion with them.  I'm fortunate here in Charleston.  My pastor's from "New Joisy" and is fairly broad-minded.  His main theme is community building.  My bumper sticker says: "Born OK the first time".

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site