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Research 2000 for Daily Kos. 12/2-4. Likely voters. MoE 4% (No trend lines)

Bond (R) 47
Carnahan (D) 43

This bit of info should be particularly alarming to Republicans:

Bond
Approve 49
Disapprove 43
No Opinion 8

Carnahan
Approve 48
Disapprove 26
No Opinion 26

Robin, of course, is a member of one of the top political families in Missouri. Her father, Mel, was governor, and defeated Sen. John Ashcroft at the polls in 2000 three weeks after dying on a plane crash. Jean Carnahan, Robin's mother, took over the seat for two years, before being defeated at the poll in a 2002 special election by Jim Talent. (Talent was defeated in 2006 by Claire McCaskill.)

Robin is currently secretary of state. Her performance in office and family name have added up to a potent political package, and given the large number of people who still have no opinion about her (mostly people who don't know she exists), she has a great deal of upside. Watch for the GOP to spend the next year trying to knock her down a peg or two in preparation for what will be another top-tier battle in the Show Me state. As for Carnahan, watch her to spend a great deal of time in these areas between Kansas City and St. Louis shoring up her numbers in rural Missouri. Compare the following maps:

Missouri Senate race, 2006: McCaskill (D) vs Talent (R):

Missouri Senate race, 2002: Talent (R) vs Carnahan (D):

The name of the game will be to make all that Red in the middle of the state just a little less red. Given the results of this poll, Robin Carnahan is in great position to do just that. Full crosstabs below the fold.

MISSOURI RESULTS – DECEMBER 2008  

The Research 2000 Missouri Poll was conducted from December 2 through December 4, 2008. A total of 600 likely voters who vote regularly in state elections were interviewed statewide by telephone.

Those interviewed were selected by the random variation of the last four digits of telephone numbers. A cross-section of exchanges was utilized in order to ensure an accurate reflection of the state. Quotas were assigned to reflect the voter registration of distribution by county.

The margin for error, according to standards customarily used by statisticians, is no more than plus or minus 4% percentage points. This means that there is a 95 percent probability that the "true" figure would fall within that range if the entire population were sampled. The margin for error is higher for any subgroup, such as for gender or party affiliation.



SAMPLE FIGURES:

Men                  288 (48%)
Women                312 (52%)

Democrats            234 (39%)
Republicans          221 (37%)
Independents         145 (24%)

White                498 (83%)
Black                 84 (14%)
Other                 18 (3%)

18-29                108 (18%)
30-44                192 (32%)
45-59                198 (33%)
60+                  102 (17%)

St. Louis City 48 interviews
St. Louis Suburbs 191 interviews
Kansas City 121 interviews
North/Southeast 132 interviews
Southwest 108 interviews


QUESTION: Do you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of Christopher "Kit" Bond? (If favorable or unfavorable ask if it is very or not):

                 VERY FAV       FAV        UNFAV     VERY UNFAV    NO OPINION

ALL                 12%         37%         32%         11%          8%

                   FAV         UNFAV       NO OPINION

ALL                 49%         43%          8%

MEN                 52%         41%          7%
WOMEN               46%         45%          9%

DEMOCRATS           25%         68%          7%
REPUBLICANS         77%         17%          6%
INDEPENDENTS        45%         43%         12%

18-29               44%         48%          8%
30-44               49%         44%          7%
45-59               51%         41%          8%
60+                 52%         40%          8%


QUESTION: Do you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of Robin Carnahan? (If favorable or unfavorable ask if it is very or not):

                 VERY FAV       FAV        UNFAV     VERY UNFAV    NO OPINION

ALL                 13%         35%         19%          7%         26%

                   FAV         UNFAV       NO OPINION

ALL                 48%         26%         26%

MEN                 45%         30%         25%
WOMEN               51%         22%         27%

DEMOCRATS           69%         11%         20%
REPUBLICANS         28%         44%         28%
INDEPENDENTS        46%         23%         31%

18-29               53%         23%         24%
30-44               49%         25%         26%
45-59               46%         27%         27%
60+                 45%         29%         26%


                   BOND        CARNAHAN    UNDECIDED  

ALL                 47%         43%         10%

MEN                 51%         41%          8%
WOMEN               43%         45%         12%

DEMOCRATS           13%         78%          9%
REPUBLICANS         85%          7%          8%
INDEPENDENTS        45%         42%         13%

WHITE               55%         36%          9%
BLACK                7%         76%         17%
OTHER                9%         74%         17%

18-29               43%         48%          9%
30-44               46%         44%         10%
45-59               48%         41%         11%
60+                 50%         41%          9%

ST. LOUIS CITY       9%         84%          7%
ST. LOUIS SUB       48%         43%          9%
KANSAS CITY         49%         43%          8%
NORTH/SE            51%         38%         11%
SOUTHWEST           55%         33%         12%

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:30 AM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Excellent news! (7+ / 0-)

    We've never been able to run anyone with a chance at beating Bond in recent years. Hopefully in 2010 we Missourians can finally kick him to the curb.

    •  I agree. Robin is a determined, bright (7+ / 0-)

      articulate and some would say ruthless campaigner.  She is exactly what we need to have the chance to beat Bond in 2010.  I'm excited about her candidacy.

      •  She's also gay (0+ / 0-)

        Will she be able to shield herself from the mud? This state voted for McCain a few weeks ago...a blood-red state, in the final mix...will Missouri really send TWO women to the Senate at the same time? I can't see it happening.

        But I love Robin. She's the Real Deal.

        •  I don't know about her sexual preference but I do (0+ / 0-)

          know that she is married to Juan Carlos Antolinez.  

          •  I just want to make sure I'm understood (0+ / 0-)

            I'm not a troll. Maybe my information is incorrect. And I only wish that if it WERE true, it wouldn't make a difference when running a Senate campaign in Missouri. Unfortunately, that isn't the case.

            I just believe in walking into an election with eyes wide open, ready to counter any attacks that could come from anywhere.

            Shee...I know Robin Carnahan. I've met her at least four times. I've worked for her father. I attended their first Inaugural Party at the Governor's Mansion in Missouri in January, 1993. She probably doesn't remember me, or maybe she would...

        •  hey (0+ / 0-)

          I didn't notice that I had a hide button again.

          But seriously.. what the hell?

          So yeah, that revelation in your topic might be news to Robin's husband.

          "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

          by RBH on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 10:36:32 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm glad to hear she's married (0+ / 0-)

            I heard wrong...maybe. He might be a beard. People still need them these days, especially in deep red states, if they have political ambitions.

            Like I said: I love Robin Carnahan. If she's bi, or if she had a youthful 'indiscretion', then it's only more reason for ME to vote for her.

            But if this comes out, even as an unsubstantiated rumor, it could kill a razor-thin margin of victory for her.

            I'm reality-based. The information I got (years ago) was close to the source and, to me, utterly reliable. We, and Robin, should see the problem coming before it hits. Unlike that stoop Rod Blagojevich, who apparently never saw his demise coming until it knocked on his door early this morning...

  •  Today you are in favor (8+ / 0-)

    of political family power but yesterday not so much? (Kennedy NY Senate)

    •  To be fair (11+ / 0-)

      Robin Carnahan has proven herself in public office.  Caroline Kennedy has not.

      Pragmatic progressivism is the future.

      by Pragmaticus on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:35:47 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  To be even more fair. . . (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MA Liberal, Do Tell, beltane

        Markos' opposition to political dynasties doesn't seem to involve whether or not the person is elected to office, only that they are a relative of a previous office holder.

        There is extraordinary cognitive dissonance, to say the least, in "hating" dynasties one day and applauding them the next.

        John McCain, you are _not_ my friend.

        by LarryInNYC on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:38:58 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I agree. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MA Liberal

          Who cares what family they came from, as long as they're qualified and will make a good candidate.

          Besides, Obama is a distant cousin of Darth Cheney. According to some people's oppositions to political dynasties, Obama would be disqualified from being president based on that.

        •  please (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Odysseus, dufffbeer, pedmom, Varlokkur

          your first sentence makes no sense and contradicts your message, if you have one.  both kennedy and carnahan are relatives of previous office holders.

          and who is "applauding" dynasties today?  only your strawman.

          robin carnahan is an extremely well-qualified public servant.  she is the best secretary of state that missouri has had in recent memory, and perhaps ever.  

          there's a big difference from having your family name being a big plus on top of your proven record as a public servant, and having nothing but your family name and a sense of entitlement.

          •  Oh please. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MA Liberal, Do Tell

            Yesterday -- and in the past -- Markos (as well as many, many other people here) wrote that political dynasties are inherently bad.  He said he hated them.  That was in the context of Kennedy getting the nod to fill Clinton's seat, but he's also said the same thing about Clinton running for President (after being elected to the Senate twice).

            His stated opposition to "dynasties" is general and without nuance.  Sometimes.  Other times (Carnahan, Salazar, Udall) it's full speed ahead.  Why is that?

            John McCain, you are _not_ my friend.

            by LarryInNYC on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:53:38 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  The comparion of Caroline and Robin Carnahan (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Odysseus

            is not the correct one.
            It was Robin's mother who was appointed to her husband's seat after he died. And I'd say that she had far fewer credentials than Caroline does.
            Robin Carnahan has simply used her family name to help make a career. She may be talented, but her name has certainly not hurt her either.

            Electing conservatives is like hiring a carpenter who thinks hammers are evil.

            by MA Liberal on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 09:03:00 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  But Markos' (and other peoples). . . (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              MA Liberal, Do Tell

              object to "dynasty" don't seem to involve the person's native talent.  They simply condemn the person for being who they are.  They (apparently) see no difference between George Bush and Hillary Clinton in that regard.

              And then, of course, with certain other families, there seems to be no problem.  While I prefer to judge each person on their own merits, irrespective of their family history, I can see the logic in the other position as well.  As long as it is applied fairly and consistently.

              What I can't figure out is why the Clinton and Kennedy clans are deserving of "hate" while the Carnahan, Udall, and Salazar clans are deserving of active fundraising.  Is it a necessary evil in order to win in otherwise red districts?  Does it somehow have to do with the positions that the respective families hold?  Is it related to money -- rich dynasties are bad, but middle class dynasties are ok?  Or is it just a double standard?

              John McCain, you are _not_ my friend.

              by LarryInNYC on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 09:21:47 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  Not the same thing (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Odysseus

        Robin's MOM was given Mel's seat after he died. That is a more fair comparison. And I'd say that Caroline has more credentials than Mrs. Carnahan did.
        Appointments like these happen all the time. Why is it Caroline Kennedy that everyone's bitching about?

        Electing conservatives is like hiring a carpenter who thinks hammers are evil.

        by MA Liberal on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 09:00:27 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  ok consider this a bitch that Mrs. Carnahan (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Odysseus

          was chosen.

        •  But she sort of ran for the seat. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          pedmom

          Voters knew when they voted that Mel Carnahan's wife would get the seat, it wasn't a surprise to any voters.  I am also not a fan political dynasties.  I'd say in the case of the Carnahan family, it bothers me a lot more with Russ then Robin.  Russ Carnahan ran for Dick Gephardt's seat when he ran for president, mostly on his name.  There was an excellent documentary about it called Can Mr. Smith get to Washington Anymore?, following a school teacher named Jeff Smith that ran against him in the primary, and fought and scrambled for every vote, and just barely lost.  It's quite a story.  

          The inescapable truth is that as much as we might dislike political dynasties, having name recognition is a help in a society filled with low information voters.  And we've had some very good people from dynasties, like Ted Kennedy and Al Gore.  We can fight against them, but wishing them away doesn't change the fact that they are a large force in politics.

          •  I worked for Mr. Smith in his campaign against... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Donkey Hotey

            Russ.  Russ is my Rep and Jeff Smith is my state senator now.  Russ really has a seat  for life.  The district is pretty well gerrymandered to remain Democratic.  I have yet to see a Russ Carnahan yard sign in the district since 2004.  He's a solid Democrat but far from an impressive legislator

            Grandma used to call me "That One" but she had twenty-something grand-kids and Alzheimers. Now, that "That one" is President!

            by duckhunter on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 11:08:03 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  LOL. I almost wrote the same thing but (8+ / 0-)

      decided to write about Robin instead because I really like her and want this community to get to know her.

    •  Robin Carnahan is an elected secretary of state. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Odysseus, Pragmaticus

      Scoff if you must, but that's more'n you ever did.

      1/20/09: The Suck Stops Here

      by phenry on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:37:25 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Odysseus, MA Liberal, Do Tell

      But I too picked up on the irony of the timing and tone in the two posts separated by one day and by a world of difference on the red-blue-purple spectrum.

    •  Just wrote the same thing downthread (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Odysseus, Do Tell

      Defenders of the Kos opinion on Kennedy call Robin Carnahan a well qualified public servant. perhaps so, but was her mom? Her mom was the one appointed to Mel's seat after he died.
      And how about Beau Biden? Talk was that he was going to be appointed to dad's seat. No one bitched about that.
      It's amazing how many people dislike the Kennedys. Usually it's the younger ones who don't remember Jack, Bobby or the 60's.

      Electing conservatives is like hiring a carpenter who thinks hammers are evil.

      by MA Liberal on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:59:02 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  It would be nice to elect more Ds who are not (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Odysseus, Do Tell

      named Carnahan in MO.  On the other hand, in this case, there are two and only options - Bond or Carnahan.

    •  kos was against monarchies before he was (0+ / 0-)

      for them.  

      I guess he really likes the Carnahan clan and maybe the Kennedy clan not so much.  

      Nope, I see no contradiction there.  

    •  Who said I'm in favor of it? (0+ / 0-)

      She's running for the seat, I polled the likely candidates.

      But if you want my opinion, at least Robin Carnahan is out there beating Republicans at the polls. Caroline Kennedy wants to be avoid the dirty work of actually talking to voters and getting elected.

      •  And to be clear (0+ / 0-)

        I'll always respect a Schweitzer, Webb, or Obama more than I'll respect someone who trades in familial connections to get ahead (e.g. Herseth, Sebelius, Clinton, the younger Biden, etc). It's an inevitable part of the system, sure, but I'm more impressed by the self-made over-achievers.

        And for the record, I opposed Russ Carnahan's House run in the primary in large part because of the "dynasty" aspect. But in this case, there is no primary. Robin will clear the field.

  •  Thanks for doing 2010 polls! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP

    Now poll FL-Sen!

    Pragmatic progressivism is the future.

    by Pragmaticus on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:34:40 AM PST

  •  This one would be especially sweet. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Odysseus, sherlyle, cyncynical, TomP, pedmom

    Kit Bond has spent decades blazing new trails in contemptible behavior.

    1/20/09: The Suck Stops Here

    by phenry on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:35:20 AM PST

    •  Amazeing the trails you cut when your drunk. (0+ / 0-)

      I'll never forget how completely loaded he was on the networks on election night in 2000.  

      Grandma used to call me "That One" but she had twenty-something grand-kids and Alzheimers. Now, that "That one" is President!

      by duckhunter on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 11:11:25 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Should Carahan be considered a political (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Do Tell

    legacy?

    There once was a man named mccain, who had the whole white house to gain, but he was quite a hobbyist of boning his lobbyist, so much for his 08 campaign. SC

    by christomento on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:35:26 AM PST

    •  in Missouri it is (6+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Odysseus, jj32, Do Tell, sherlyle, cyncynical, TomP

      Mel Carahan was a very popular govenor and if he hadn't died unexpectedly in a plane crash probably could have been a senator as long as he wented.

      His wife did okay with his seat, but mostly it's been his 2 childern, Robin and Russ that have taken over.

      Robin as stated is Sectary of State in MO and Russ is a member of the house of representives.

    •  Robin doesn't get by on her name (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Odysseus, phenry, duckhunter, Marcus Graly

      Though it certainly doesn't hurt, she's very good at working a crowd, working the phones, and has done her job in a way that's earned quite broad support.

      I do worry about the "farm team" in Missouri, because behind Jay Nixon and Robin Carnahan there don't seem to be a lot of great new faces in the wings.

      •  What about... (5+ / 0-)

        ...

        State Auditor Susan Montee
        Newly Elected State Treasurer Clint Zweifil
        Newly Elected Attorney General Chris Koster
        State Senator Jeff Smith (granted he lost the primary for Russ's seat so his electoral abilities can be debated)

        It seems like MIssouri has something resembling a farm team in place...

        "An army of principles can penetrate where an army of soldiers cannot." - Thomas Paine

        by Mister Gloom on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:44:27 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah (0+ / 0-)

          Things are definitely looking up in the state. Things were much bleaker just a few short years ago.

          •  Granted (0+ / 0-)

            the number of Dems in the Missouri state house is slightly higher than it was six years ago. And the number of Dems in the Missouri state senate is as low as it was before the 06 elections (11!)

            But things always look brighter with a veto pen.

            "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

            by RBH on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 10:34:38 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  I think he can hold up (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          duckhunter, Varlokkur

          State Senator Jeff Smith (granted he lost the primary for Russ's seat so his electoral abilities can be debated)

          He was running on a shoestring budget against the most politically powerful family in the state.  The surprise isn't that he lost, it's that he came so close to winning.  And he used the old fashioned knocking on doors, talking to voters field approach that Obama proved can win a country.

        •  Koster is not a Democrat. He was/is a Republican (0+ / 0-)

          until MO State Senator Jeff Smith helped "flip him" in the last week of the legislative session.  He voted in lock step with Blunt as a senator.  No can say what the guy stands.  But he cannot legitimately be called a Democrat.  He ran as a Democrat only because he could have never competed against Gibbons in a GOP primary.  He cleverly divided a crowded Democratic primary field.

          Koster took way more than his share of Rex Sinquefeld's dough.  Also, Smith has disappointed me for takeing Rex Sinquefeld's dough: http://www.missouriprovote.org/....  

          I wrote in Margaret Donnelly for Attorney General.  Who lost due to a stalking horse Koster put up.

          Grandma used to call me "That One" but she had twenty-something grand-kids and Alzheimers. Now, that "That one" is President!

          by duckhunter on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 11:30:20 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Other than Chris Koster and Clint Zweifel (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        aimeeinkc, TomP, Donkey Hotey, eean

        We only won 4 of 5 statewide offices, while losing one office because the Republican threw the rest of his buddies to the wolves (and distributed Nixon/Kinder/Carnahan/Zweifel/Koster ballots in STL).

        Now.. having Judy Baker would be nice. And as I expected, she fared a lot better than Kay Barnes and Kay's "let's hit Sam Graves on having a plane" dumbass campaign of the last month. The person to press Sam Graves or win MO-6 will be younger than 69 and not the former mayor of KCMO.

        "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

        by RBH on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:45:44 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm not taken with Koster (0+ / 0-)

          Though believe me, converts are welcome. Honestly, I haven't had enough exposure to Zweifil to form an opinion.

          I'd forgotten Susan Montee. She certainly has the potential to go higher.

          Jeff Smith is an extremely sharp and capable guy. That he made Carnahan's primary more than perfunctory is testimony to that.  I'm certainly hoping to see Jeff in another role before his time in the MO house expires.

          Nixon spent so long building up to this run, that it's going to take me a bit to adapt to the new crew.

          •  Zweifel is real bright and good at speaking (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            duckhunter

            granted, perhaps he was just making Treasurer topics sound exciting. But Zweifel has potential to move up the ladder.

            Chris Koster does deserve a nod for winning statewide office running on the prosecutor thing. Even if that still had nothing to officially do with the job. He kept plugging away and beat someone who had put a lot of resources into the campaign. I guess we'll see how good Koster is when it comes to the job.

            As for Jeff Smith, he's better at being a candidate than he is at running the Missouri State Senate campaign committee. We lost three seats and fell to 23-11 this year. Thanks in part to being completely outgunned and outmanned.

            "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

            by RBH on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 10:33:18 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Jeff Smith (0+ / 0-)

              You're right, he's a great candidate, but he's an even better state senator. A true progressive who has actually got stuff passed in Missouri. That's about as common as...heck, it's not common at all.

              Next to Claire McCaskill, he's also the closest thing Missouri Democrats have to a rockstar.

  •  is any one else having a probelm loading the maps (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eean

    ?

    Because I'm stuck at 65% and 51%.

  •  Robin is the best of the Carnahan Clan (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    aimeeinkc, sherlyle, jnhobbs, TomP, pedmom

    The sharpest, the best speaker... simply the most solid and competent.

    Bond's last opponent, Nancy Farmer, was a good candidate, but she ran a painfully terrible campaign. If Robin can put together a team that's as capable as she is herself, they should finally do in the old drunken table-pounder, Bond.

    •  And Robin has (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      aimeeinkc, Predictor

      real rural appeal.  Listen to her out-state accent.  I bet she says, Missourah naturally.  :-)

      "What we've seen the last few days is nothing less than the final verdict on an economic philosophy that has completely failed." -- Barack Obama

      by TomP on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:55:17 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  My search is broken -- can't find. . . (0+ / 0-)

    the words "dynasty" or "hate" anywhere in this post.

    Must be Chrome -- may have to go back to Firefox.

    John McCain, you are _not_ my friend.

    by LarryInNYC on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:35:53 AM PST

    •  Crazy, (0+ / 0-)

      but Robin thinks the voters should decide whether she serve. I know!

      And like I said upthread, I love how people like you read all sorts of nefarious double-standards when all this post does is 1) matchup the likely candidates, and 2) explain why Carnahan has appeal.

      I left out any value judgements, but you are a mind reader! Very impressive.

      •  Heh. I don't have to be a mind reader. (0+ / 0-)

        Just a word reader.  Yesterday you were condemning political dynasties for running candidates irrespective of quality of the candidates.  What does "Enough of the Clinton dynasty" mean?  It sure doesn't mean "Clinton thinks that the voters should decide whether she serves."

        If political dynasty is a bad thing then that's a reason why Robin Carnahan should not appeal -- at least to you.  Yet this is a post boosting her appeal and chances of winning.  It doesn't say "Robin has a good chance of extending her family's political dynasty for another generation" it says she's a good candidate.

        What's the difference between Robin Carnahan and Caroline Kennedy?  Is the election vs. appointment issue?  Do you only object to dynasties by appointment?  Is it that Missouri is a tougher electoral climate for Democrats?  Do you only hate dynasties in safe seats?

        I actually agree with the logic you laid out in the comment above -- regardless of her political lineage, Robin Carnahan should be free to put herself forward as a candidate and she should be judged on her own merits.  The same for Kennedy, the same for Clinton, and yes, even the same for Bush (notwithstanding that the judgment there should be considerably harsher).

        If that's what you believe, I just want to know who wrote that post under your name yesterday?

        John McCain, you are _not_ my friend.

        by LarryInNYC on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 10:39:06 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  What the heck are you babbling about? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AlyoshaKaramazov

          I don't like political dynasties, and this apparent desire of the American people for our own royalty. It makes zero sense for me. You may want your camelot, I think that's bullshit.

          Again, I polled the likely candidates for this Senate race, explain why Robin look this strong, and you somehow think that repudiates my post yesterday? Funny.

          Now if Caroline Kennedy wants to run for that seat in 2010, all the power to her. If the people of NY want their monarchy, they can vote for it. Patterson should appoint a caretaker senator and open it up to the voters in 2010. Let Caroline enter the fray. Just like in Delaware, having Beau run for the Senate seat in 2010 will look much better than being appointed to it. Either way, it's annoying to me, but if the voters want their royalty, that's democracy in action.

          But there's no need to appoint them to such seat.

          The last time we did that -- Jean Carnahan in Missouri no less -- cost us that seat two years later.

          •  I'm working hard to figure out. . . (0+ / 0-)

            how "I hate political dynasties -- the Bushes, the Clintons, the Kennedys" on Monday can become "fine with me, as long as it's not an appointment" on Tuesday.

            Those are not at all the same thing.  What changed since yesterday, or what's different about the Carnahan / Salazar / Udall clans?  Real question that -- at this point I think it's clear that you don't feel the same way about them as you do about the Kennedys or the Clintons.  How come?

            Obviously folks should get to elect who they want.  But to write about Robin Carnahan (a candidate that, according to your royalty analogy ought to be referred to as "Princess Robin") without even mentioning that 1) she's part of a dynastic succession and 2) you (presumably) oppose her election in the primary is kind of odd.

            As far as the practical political aspects (whether an appointed candidate has a better or worse chance of retaining the seat in an election and whether it "looks" better for Beau to inherit his father's seat by election rather than appointment) I agree that those are all interesting issues, and exactly the kind of thing that I like to read about on the front page.

            But they're fairly irrelevant if your policy is "political dynasties are inherently bad, and I hate them".

            John McCain, you are _not_ my friend.

            by LarryInNYC on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 11:15:50 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Umm, Robin Carnahan is an eminently capable (0+ / 0-)

              public servant. She's smart and can give a speech and work a room and most importantly, she can do her job.

              •  So? (0+ / 0-)

                What does that have to do with the issue of hating political dynasties?  Plenty of political kids / relatives can do the job.  Hillary Clinton has certainly been a very good Senator from New York.  Ted Kennedy has been a good Senator from Massachusetts.

                The point is, if political dynasties are inherently evil on Monday, what happened so that on Tuesday it's not important to even mention the dynastic aspect of the Robin Carnahan candidacy?

                John McCain, you are _not_ my friend.

                by LarryInNYC on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 12:33:58 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Wasn't Markos' point about Caroline Kennedy (0+ / 0-)

                  that it was objectionable to appoint her to the position on the basis of her name and little else? Robin Carnahan doesn't have that problem.

                  I would have argued that her brother Russ would, but he's actually turned into a pretty good congressman.

                  •  Nope. (0+ / 0-)

                    Markos' point, expressed yesterday and previously, is that all political dynasties suck and he hates them.

                    Nothing about appointments, nothing about Kennedys in particular.  Simply that he hates the idea of someone holding office if that person has a relative who previously held office.

                    John McCain, you are _not_ my friend.

                    by LarryInNYC on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 01:57:57 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

  •  If elected, (6+ / 0-)

    Robin will make MO the fourth state (and the first non-coastal state) to be represented in the Senate by two women.
    Cool!

    When civilizations clash, barbarism wins.

    by Allogenes on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:39:43 AM PST

  •  For being a 40 year plus institution in Missouri (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    aimeeinkc, TomP

    Kit Bond is never really totally safe. I think his percentage against Nancy Farmer and her stumbling underfunded campaign of Doom was his best showing ever.

    "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

    by RBH on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:42:45 AM PST

  •  Robin definately has the chance, but.... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Odysseus, aimeeinkc, kevin k

    However, the aspect that comes under consideration is if Missouri a traditional battleground state is becoming a Red State. Particularly, after the kind of money and resources spent by President-Elect Obama spent in Missouri, and still lost to McCain by a small margin indicates certain evolving characteristics of the former bellwether state. Missouri, in the recent past as compared to former red states such as Virginia, NC and Indiana has has increase in its evangelical population, while the immigrant population which particularly sides with the Democrats is sliding downwards. Also, with Kansas City and St.Louis going down in the number of jobs, as compared to cities of Virginia and NC, such as Arlington, Richmond, Charlotte and Raleigh, the urban population which sides with the democrats is again on the slide down. Also, with President Elect-Obama not on the ballot in 2010 will be a real test for the democrats around the country.

    •  Jay Nixon (D) won the governors seat (5+ / 0-)

      by nearly a 20% margin. I don't think this state is trending red, I think this state is trending racist. Having lived in rural Missouri for awhile, and even hearing some things in traditionally blue St. Louis, I truly believe that's why Obama lost MO.

      •  trending is the wrong word (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        duckhunter, TomP, Donkey Hotey, Varlokkur

        if it were trending racist, Obama would have lost by 6 digits, not by under 4000 votes.

        As to how much of an impact the bigot/racist vote had, that's not known. But it probably gave McCain the state (saying that with a high percentage of certainty).

        The best point of comparison would be between Obama and Zweifel as to the "mysterious" dropoff.

        Best case scenario for 2012. We win Missouri, and nobody really cares because Obama wins big.

        "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

        by RBH on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:51:04 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  GOTV in St. Louis didn't pan out (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          aimeeinkc, Donkey Hotey, Varlokkur

          Obama got only a handful more votes in St. Louis than did Kerry

          A huge disappointment, and frankly, the difference in the race.

          •  STL votes (0+ / 0-)

            Obama won 333,123 votes in the county. Kerry won 295,284 votes.

            Obama won 132,925 in the city. Kerry won 116,133 votes.

            Overall, around 54K more votes from STL county and city.

            We got the votes out of urban areas. That's the reality about the GOTV operation that hasn't been directly mentioned. We got a lot of votes out in our strongholds.

            We just needed four thousand more votes out of those strongholds. Bah.

            "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

            by RBH on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 10:46:59 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  well when you win by a few thousand votes (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Odysseus, Varlokkur

          plenty of things gave McCain the state.

          And Missouri isn't trending conservative in the some way Arkansas or the Appalachia is though. Thats an important point to make.

          •  But then u do agree it is..turning red (0+ / 0-)
          •  well yeah (0+ / 0-)

            that's my escape clause. If it comes within 500 votes, then the election could have been shifted by people who didn't like that Obama's mother was born in Kansas.

            I'd need to check Missouri's percentage in 08 compared to the national percentage. Missouri ran like 2% behind the national rate in 2004 and has been leaning rep in this decade. It kind of happens like that when small-towns and suburbanites unite.

            "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

            by RBH on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 10:42:33 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Well Jay Nixon has a much controversial Pro-life (0+ / 0-)

        stand. Infact, the head of NARAL in Missouri just before the election predicted that Nixon as attorney general has had some controversial stands on Pro-Life issues, thus, they don't highlight him as 100% pro-life. Also, Nixon highlights the new breed of democrats in Mo, center-to-right, with stand on pro-life, as well as, his much controversial statement of gay marriage just prior to the election, really their was no need for it. But, i guess being a democrat in Missouri is all about being very center-right.

        •  could you flesh out this comment :D (0+ / 0-)

          I really don't understand why Nixon did so well.

          •  Because Nixon maintained his distance from Obama (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            cyncynical, sweetlucy47
          •  Nixon has been MO's attorney general for years (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Odysseus, GoldnI, sweetlucy47

            and was extremely popular. And he was running up against a republican who had no name recognition, that came out of a pretty bloody primary for the nomination.

            •  But then Nixon has a conservative past too (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Odysseus

              Prior to 1992 or 93, Nixon, was clearly pro-life as an issue, even though a democrat.

              for instance, while serving in the Missouri Senate in the 1980s, Nixon supported a woman's right to choose only in cases of rape or incest

              as Attorney General, Nixon has also defended Missouri anti-choice laws, such as parental consent and the infamous House Bill 1055 ambulatory surgical center law that would restrict a woman's access to reproductive healthcare.

              Nixon has also recently issued a statement regarding the California same-sex marriage ruling stating his support of Missouri's 2004 ban on same-sex marriage. Though support of LGBT equality and support of reproductive justice do not always go hand in hand, his enthusiastic public statements against same-sex marriage made this Missouri voter wonder just what kind of Democrat we're dealing with in the Governor's race.

              NARAL Pro-Choice Missouri Executive Director Pamela Sumners offers some clarification on the race. Sumners shares that, although he did oppose abortion except in cases of rape or incest in the 1980s, Nixon has been classified as pro-choice by NARAL since 1994. Sumners allows that Nixon's defense of anti-choice laws in his role as Attorney General does confuse the issue and that we don't exactly have a good barometer on him, but added, "I can't speak for Nixon's campaign but I believe that he would defend choice and I wouldn't be prepared to vote for him if I didn't believe that."

              And that quote sums up where pro-choice voters are here in Missouri and throughout the country. Unlike more liberal states where political support of choice is a given, many states have conservative or moderate Democrats running for office and those candidates may or may not be pro-choice. Even if they are pro-choice they, like Attorney General Nixon, may have a political track record that speaks to an evolution on the issue and raises concerns about whether their position on choice depends on what the polls show.

              Any Democrat with such stands on Pro-life and Gay marriage will win not only Missouri but even Texas.

              •  Um (0+ / 0-)

                as Attorney General, Nixon has also defended Missouri anti-choice laws, such as parental consent and the infamous House Bill 1055 ambulatory surgical center law that would restrict a woman's access to reproductive healthcare.

                if I recall correctly, the Attorney General of Missouri is required to defend the state when they get sued for laws like these. When you consider that the last two AGs before Nixon are much more notorious for advancing right-wing stuff (Ashcroft and Bill Webster)

                Jay's perfectly acceptable when it comes to the basics. He's not going to get us all excited all the time, sure, but he's not undermining Democrats either. For all we know, if he does a good job as Governor, some may speak of promoting him in eight years.

                "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

                by RBH on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 10:29:42 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Not really (0+ / 0-)

                  Well RBH my friend,

                  It really isn't a necessity for a sitting Attorney General to defend the state laws, a great example for this is as follows

                  Missouri Governor Matt Blunt Won't Use Atty General to Defend Abortion Law  Email this article
                  Printer friendly page
                  by Steven Ertelt
                  LifeNews.com Editor
                  August 23, 2007

                  Jefferson City, MO (LifeNews.com) -- The administration of Missouri Gov. Matt Blunt won't rely on pro-abortion Attorney General Jay Nixon to defend a law that protects women by requiring abortion facilities to meet basic health and safety requirements. Blunt's health director plans to use private attorneys to help defend the law in court.

                  I wish all elected officials, much like as you said would have emphasized their state or country first, instead of highlighting their own political agenda. However, the right in great examples of BUSH-CHENEY never thought so. Unfortunately, it is often WE the Democrats who think of not exciting our base the LEFT, to keep the affairs of the nation on a centrist platform. While the right keeps on pushing forth their agenda, via their radicals.

    •  It is like Arkansas and West Virginia (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Odysseus

      It is much more Democratic for races other than President, although I think an incumbent Democratic President will probably do fine.

      Proud to be a pro-"torture" Democrat.

      by IhateBush on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:52:21 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  unlike Arkansas we voted for Bush 04 more then (0+ / 0-)

        McCain.

        Just sayin'. The point you make is correct though. The fact that Adair county voted for Obama more then McCaskill is a testament to on-campus (truman.edu) GOTV operation here.

  •  if bond runs, he will be hard to beat... (0+ / 0-)

    ...when the votes come in.

    and is Carnahan actually running?

    and what has Bond done that missouri voters are really upset about on the ground?

    if he runs for reelection, I expect him to win due to it being a midterm with a Democratic congress and president.

  •  Bond could always retire (0+ / 0-)

    leading to a bloodbath primary with Sam Graves and whoever Kit Bond picks.

    That's the best case scenario.

    "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

    by RBH on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:47:51 AM PST

  •  I really don't want to lose Robin as SOS! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Donkey Hotey

    But IF she makes it to the Senate it will be great news for all Missourians.
    Another name tossed about has been Susan Montee, our State Auditor, who followed in Claire McCaskill's footsteps. Either Susan or Robin would kick GOP Butt!

    The Religious Right is Neither.

    by cyncynical on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:47:58 AM PST

  •  Is there any indication that she is so inclined? (0+ / 0-)

    "2012; that sounds like years away." - Sarah Palin

    by RandySF on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:50:22 AM PST

    •  Susan Montee has some higher office... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Donkey Hotey

      ambitions.  I think she could and would be a contender for the Senate.  
      The bloodbath will be in the GOP.  Talent is rumored to be interested IF Bond retires. Other names mentioned on the GOP side are Sarah Steelman (who was our State Treasurer and tried but lost the GOP nod for Gubernatorial candidate)
      Sam Graves, and the always fun Lt Governor Peter Kinder.

      The Religious Right is Neither.

      by cyncynical on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 09:59:47 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hate to do this (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Varlokkur

    to you Kos especially in a diary so full of great poll data and analysis but... what happened to being against dynasties? Does that apply only to the Kennedies? We have had 3 different Carnahans vying for the same seat and now a fourth.

    •  There are two issues with Caroline Kennedy (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rich in PA, eean

      Personally, I think she would be a good senator. But the arguments against her, one, she has never held public office before. Two, she would be appointed to the seat. It's the second reason that I think is the main reason people are against her being the choice. If she ran in 2010, for the seat, like Carnahan is doing, that would be different.

      •  However... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Odysseus

        Robin's mom was appointed to her husband's seat after he died. That is the more fair comparison. Kennedy certainly has more cred than Mrs. Carnahan.
        Secondly, Kennedy will have to run for the office when the term is up.
        And finally, who ever said you had to hold public office to run for public office? That certainly wasn't the intent of the Founding Fathers. Our representatives are supposed to come from all walks of life, not simply be professional politicians.

        Electing conservatives is like hiring a carpenter who thinks hammers are evil.

        by MA Liberal on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 09:08:37 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Cherokee Cave (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    aimeeinkc, duckhunter

    About ten years ago or so, Robin and a group of St.Louis Public school Kids clambered around an urban cave for a day.  Ya kinda get to "know" a person then.  For what it's worth, I found her to be very sweet,  kind , gentle and knowledgeable about a wind range of things.  She also has a somewhat pronounced mid Missouri accent, that makes sense as she spent a great deal of time on a Cattle ranch there. (Rolla)  As for the dynasty bit, the Carnahan name is golden in Missouri, her brother Russ has Gephardt's old seat.

  •  Robin Carnahan on voting reform at Netroots Natio (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    aimeeinkc, Predictor

    "What we've seen the last few days is nothing less than the final verdict on an economic philosophy that has completely failed." -- Barack Obama

    by TomP on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:50:53 AM PST

  •  As long as Kit sticks with his principles.... (0+ / 0-)

    ...he'll be okay...LOL.

  •  Robin Carnahan Ad (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    aimeeinkc, Predictor

    She did a great ad on her families farm near Rolla in 2004.  Note her accent.  She will do just fine out state.  She grew up there.

    "What we've seen the last few days is nothing less than the final verdict on an economic philosophy that has completely failed." -- Barack Obama

    by TomP on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:53:04 AM PST

  •  Russ and Robin and dynasty's (0+ / 0-)

    About ten years ago or so, Robin and a group of St.Louis Public school Kids clambered around an urban cave for a day.  Ya kinda get to "know" a person then.  For what it's worth, I found her to be very sweet,  kind , gentle and knowledgeable about a wind range of things.  She also has a somewhat pronounced mid Missouri accent, that makes sense as she spent a great deal of time on a Cattle ranch there. (Rolla)  As for the dynasty bit, the Carnahan name is golden in Missouri, her brother Russ has Gephardt's old seat.

  •  Hmmm. OK for the Carnahans to be a family (0+ / 0-)

    political "monarchy" but not for the Kennedys?
    Surprising how Caroline gets trashed ion the front page because she might be appointed to Hillary's seat and yet it was OK to appoint Mel Carnahan's widow. And now their child is making inroads to her own political career - partly based on name recognition.
    Interesting.

    Electing conservatives is like hiring a carpenter who thinks hammers are evil.

    by MA Liberal on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:55:54 AM PST

    •  Partly (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      aimeeinkc

      but not mostly. Big difference

      •  but the comparison of Caroline to Robin (0+ / 0-)

        is not correct. It was Robin's mom, Mel Carnahan's wife who was appointed to Mel's seat after he died. Why? She certainly wasn't the most qualified to hold it.
        I'd say Caroline has more cred than Mrs. Carnahan did.

        Electing conservatives is like hiring a carpenter who thinks hammers are evil.

        by MA Liberal on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 09:05:34 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  the candidate dieing before the election is a (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dufffbeer

      fairly exceptional circumstance. There wasn't the normal process of deciding who should fill the seat, they decided fairly early after his death so voters would know who they were voting for. I don't think its comparable to the more normal appointment like Clinton's.

      Plus, who is defending that decision anyways? She lost two years later so it obviously wasn't a great one.

    •  It wasn't OK to appoint Carnahan's widow. (0+ / 0-)

      It was maudlin and ridiculous.  Robin isn't a problem because she's actually, you know, running for the job.  I'd rather she didn't, frankly, but i can't object too strongly to someone putting their name out their for electoral consideration.  Nor would I have a problem with CK as a real interim appointment, with a commitment not to run for the seat.  But the combination of dynasty and incumbency-by-appointment is too much for me.  

      -5.38/-3.74 I've suffered for my country. Now it's your turn! --John McCain with apologies to Monty Python's "Protest Song"

      by Rich in PA on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 09:04:35 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  It would help to use both first and last names (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jj32

    Bond's first name ?
    Carnahan's first name ?

  •  Dewy Crump (0+ / 0-)

    Extra points for anyone who remembers these drug filled days at the lake of the Ozarks..... Come on Kit you and the gang on Dewey's Boat.

  •  Can Mr Smith Get to Washington Anymore? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Donkey Hotey

    I have been impressed with Robin Carnahan as SoS, but I recommend this film to anyone unfamiliar with politics and the Carnahan dynasty in MO.  http://mrsmithmovie.com/
    It's a documentary about Jeff Smith's unsuccessful run against Russ Carnahan for the House seat.  Jeff is now a state congressman in Missouri, and a professor of poli sci at Washington University.

    •  Mr. Smith is a sell out (0+ / 0-)
    •  The Carnahan dynasty? (0+ / 0-)

      The very same family who lost their husband and father in a plane crash during the 2000 election cycle and whose wife Jean served his senate term because he couldn't be beaten, even in death.

      I strongly disagree with your ref to the Carnahans as any kind of dynasty.  Mel owned his own business as many folks do without being referred to as some kind of dynasty.  

      Can't you support one Democrat against another without using terminology that is usually used to refer to families with generations of wealth and power.

      Seriously doesn't apply here

      PaintyKat

      WWYTR? Voting, contributing, supporting, and electing Democrats

      by PaintyKat on Fri Dec 12, 2008 at 07:37:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  At the Obama Rally in October... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cyncynical, pedmom

    ...at the University of Missouri, Robin gave the best speech of the night, including the man himself, IMO.

    She opened with a genuine and moving mention of her father and then really got the crowd involved. She was keenly aware of her audience (mostly students) and hammered home the importance of their vote and what they needed to do on November 4th.

    She was plain spoken, but not dumbed down. I will work for her any day to get rid of Kit Bond. The man knows how to bring home an earmark, but that's about it.

    My definition of an expert in any field is a person who knows enough about what's really going on to be scared.- PJ Plauger

    by MalachiConstant on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 09:08:56 AM PST

  •  It's still only 12/08, isn't it? (0+ / 0-)

    Just wondering.

    •  Gasp! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Donkey Hotey

      An election site talking about elections?

      And we were talking about Obama -- as presidential material -- in June 2004. It's what we do around here.

      I suggest, if you want your election news segregated to two weeks before the election, to stick with your local newspaper.

      •  If you don't like the thread on top of DailyKos (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Rasputin

        wait 30 minutes and a new one will be posted.

        So, when will we get some polls for Blagojevich's 2016 candidacy? (ha)

        "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

        by RBH on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 10:38:54 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Gasp! (0+ / 0-)

        As I'm sure you are well aware, these polls mean little, but it's your site so polute it with whatever nonsense you feel like.  To claim that it doesn't look good for candidate A or that they're in trouble 2 1years out in the current political landscape is a bit of stretch.  You'd think that there'd still be a lot more relevant topics to put on the front page than this.  But, heym it's "your" site, go nuts.

  •  Would love Bond outta there n/t (0+ / 0-)
  •  suburban gains offset rural losses (0+ / 0-)

    I compared the 2002 Talent/Carnahan map with the 2008 Obama/McCain map. Both are very close losses. The 2002 map has blue counties scattered all over rural Missouri. The 2008 map does not. In 2002 Carnahan won St. Louis County (suburbs) 51-48. In 2008 Obama won St. Louis County 60-40. So the trend seems to be us gaining votes in the suburbs while losing votes in the rural part of the state.

    "I'm going to be on you like a numerator on a denominator." -Principal Skinner

    by dufffbeer on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 09:28:30 AM PST

  •  No NO NO A Dynasty (snark) (0+ / 0-)

    Can't happen, Carnahans for the 3rd time for this seat. The world will crash and burn and we'll all be pledging allegiance to a monarch next week!!!!
    C'mon rip her to shreds like so many did to Caroline Kennedy yesterday. C'mon, I expect to cross check for comments.

    We've got our room reservations in Annapolis, we know the Metro schedule, and the car is getting tuned up..Obama-mania Jan 20 HERE WE COME!!!!!!!!!

    by UndercoverRxer on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 09:56:50 AM PST

  •  Calling the Carnahans similar to the Kennedy... (0+ / 0-)

    political dynasty is laughable.  JFK was a president, Bobby was a Senator and ran for president, and Teddy is a Senator.  Mel Carnahan was a governor who was elected posthumously to the Senate.  His wife was appointed.  And Mel's daughter, Jean, is Missouri's current Secretary of State.  

    P.S.: I'm from New York and I don't think Caroline Kennedy is at all qualified to be appointed for Senator.  She wouldn't even be on the list if not for her last name.

    I am proud to admit that I come from one of the districts that had the least votes for George W. Bush in the entire country.

    by ThePrometheusMan on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 10:19:50 AM PST

  •  Jean Carnahan is at least qualified... (0+ / 0-)

    as she is Missouri's Secretary of State.  Caroline Kennedy has never held political office.  There are plenty of qualified New Yorkers that should be in the running whether it is Andrew Cuomo or someone from upstate.

    I am proud to admit that I come from one of the districts that had the least votes for George W. Bush in the entire country.

    by ThePrometheusMan on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 10:22:04 AM PST

  •  Explain this to me... (0+ / 0-)

    How is it a state that went for John McCain in 06 and Bush in 04 has no problem in electing a Democratic senator (McCaskill) in 06, a Democratic governor (Nixon) in 08, and now leaning towards electing a SECOND Democratic senator?

    Me thinks that Missouri is a racist state...

  •  On rural vs. urban (0+ / 0-)

    The difference between Jean Carnahan in 2002 and Claire McCaskill in 2006 wasn't so much a wave outstate. It was mostly a surge in St. Louis County, where McCaskill gained more votes over Carnahan than she did in the rest of the state combined.

  •  No disrespect to Mel Carnahan, but (0+ / 0-)

    but how funny is it that John Ashcroft got beat by a deceased candidate?  I still get a chuckle out of that when I think about it...

    "The revolution will be no rerun, brother. The revolution will be live" Gil Scott-Heron

    by marknspokane on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 03:14:30 PM PST

  •  Let's remember (0+ / 0-)

    that the 2000 election produced an appointed Missouri senator (and that seat was lost to Talent two years later)...and the loser was our first AG of the Bush mess, Ashcroft. I think acting governor Roger Wilson would have been the best choice for the Carnahan seat had he not been filling the remainder of Carnahan's gubernatorial term. Carnahan's untimely passing, like that of 1976 Democratic Senate primary winner Jerry Litton, was a major blow to the party's progress in Missouri, even with Bob Holden's win of the governorship in 2000.

    Wilson, Robin Carnahan, and Dick Gephardt represent different political generations and levels of leadership in the state along with Nixon. Now, we need stronger candidates in the state representative and senate races. Grassroots effort, anyone?

  •  So what, we're going to keep (0+ / 0-)

    doing this whole "50 state" thing? :)

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