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Will the WH auto deal look like Dems want? Or Republicans? Hmm, gee...

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Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 06:45:03 AM PDT

Cross-posted from Congress Matters.

First hint from the White House on its terms for bailing out the auto makers with TARP money:

Q Hi, Dana. Two topics, please. On auto legislation, from the White House perspective, how important is it that concessions be part of any prospective deal -- concessions from the automakers, the union, or other stakeholders?

MS. PERINO: Well, as we made clear, if we're going to use taxpayer financing to assist the automakers, all stakeholders are going to have to come to the table and be willing to show that they are capable and willing to make really tough decisions about the way forward, that they want -- we need them to become viable, competitive firms in the future. And in order to do that, concessions are going to have to be made by stakeholders.

So that's one of the things that we're in communication with them about, and that we're considering as we weigh all of our options in the wake of not passing legislation last week.

Q So that's being considered, but it's too soon to say that that would be required as part of any deal?

MS. PERINO: I don't think that there's any possible way that this President would agree to allow taxpayer financing to go towards firms that are not willing to make tough decisions to become viable and competitive in the future. I just do not think that will happen.

No one could have foreseen...

If the Treasury swoops in with TARP funds, what authority do they have to impose restrictions on the money -- i.e., could they make the loans conditional on securing the very union concessions rejected last night?

And now, this morning, the AP reports:

The White House and Treasury Department were in talks with Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tenn., who has been seeking big union concessions in exchange for rescue money, on the terms and structure of a possible bailout, said a senior GOP congressional aide.

On the other hand, look how the AP describes Corker's accomplishments:

Corker came close last week to striking a deal with the United Auto Workers union for a $14 billion bill that would have forced the carmakers to bring their wages and benefits in line with those of Japanese auto companies in the U.S. by a specific date in 2009. The measure collapsed after the UAW refused to agree to wage cuts that quickly as Senate Republicans demanded.

How, exactly, did he "come close" to striking a deal last week? He proposed wage and benefit cuts, and the UAW said no.

By those terms, I can come close to "striking a deal" with Scarlett Johansson, too.

On the other other hand, Harry Reid and Dick Durbin think Corker's just splendid:

Majority Leader Harry Reid seconded McConnell’s assessment. “I’ve been extremely impressed with Bob Corker,” says Reid, a Nevada Democrat. Illinois Senator Dick Durbin, the No. 2 Democrat, says Corker did a “magnificent job.”

So who knows? Deal? No deal? Magnificent? Asshat? We'll have to wait and see how this history gets written, though of course "we'll all be dead."

Magnificent!

  • ::

Tags: TARP, auto bailout, Bob Corker, Harry Reid, Dick Durbin (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 177 comments

  •  $700 Billion with no strings... (24+ / 0-)

    But $14 billion requires pay cuts to employees?

    WTF kind of logic is that when banks and brokerages are paying billions in bonuses with bailout money.

    Corker is a shameless whore of the highest degree!

    GOP. There's a reason it rhymes with dope...

    by Red no more on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 06:49:22 AM PDT

  •  at this point let them go into bankrupty (6+ / 0-)

    and wait for Obama to come and clean up.

    Why get screwed again?

    34 days won't make a huge difference now.

    First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win - Gandhi

    by mysticlaker on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 06:51:24 AM PDT

    •  it'll make a nice exlamation point to Bush's (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      CParis, FDR in 08

      legacy of
      Complete. Failure. as the Worst. President. Ever.

      ... and I thought "came close" was like "almost" and only applies to horse or Iraqi shoes?

      .... ahhhh that Iraqi journalist... he sure "came close" to "striking a deal" with Bush, huh?

      "A lie repeated may be accepted as fact, but the truth repeated becomes self evident." -elonifer skyhawk

      by Fireshadow on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:07:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Bankruptcy is not going to work (5+ / 0-)

      A bankruptcy will trigger the CDSs which will have a domino effect. They are playing a game of chicken right now.  The Big 3 are this countries last large manufacturing base, we can't afford to lose what little manufacturing base we have left.  Time is rapidly running out while they play games with the future of this country.  This is intolerable..

      ~War is Peace~Freedom is Slavery~Ignorance is Strength~ George Orwell "1984"

      by Kristina40 on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:14:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  perhaps ... (5+ / 0-)

        they are complicit with the R's, and the REAL game of chicken is being played with the Big 3 and the GOP on one side and the UAW on the other.  I'm honestly starting to believe they're just hoping the UAW will cave and go away before the hammer drops.

        Assuming (and these are big assumptions) the Big 3 and the UAW all survive, I'm wondering just how supportive of the modern Democratic Party (at least in terms of Senate Dems) modern Labor should be.

        Perhaps it's time for a real Labor party.  Sign me up.

        I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper. - President Barack Obama

        by ThirstyGator on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:19:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  What Is The Economic Difference? (2+ / 0-)

        Does anybody know what the economic difference is between dropping union wages to a competitive level and GM going into bankruptcy?  I'm not sure the difference is particularly large.  If we let GM bust the union, that will have a massive adverse effect on the economy too.  It may also have unintended consequences nobody is thinking about (such as worker shortage at GM/Ford/Chrysler plants).

        •  Dropping wages will have little effect (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Bluehawk

          I think wages only account for 10% or so of their total capital outlay.  They've already said they could stop paying wages completely and they will still go BK before the end of the year.  This has to do with bad investments made via their financing companies and of course the economy going into the toilet and credit being locked up moreso than wages.  Wages are just being used as a third rail.
          I can't stress enough how serious this is, this will be the end of our manufacturing base.  Does anyone think Toyota will continue to manufacture cars here once the Big3 are gone?  Of course they won't.  They've already halted contstruction of their new Prius plant in Texas...

          ~War is Peace~Freedom is Slavery~Ignorance is Strength~ George Orwell "1984"

          by Kristina40 on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:51:03 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  A VERY high stakes game of chicken...... (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Kristina40

        with our country going down the toilet very quickly.

        If the people lead, the leaders will follow.

        by Mz Kleen on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 09:53:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  34 days will make an enourmous difference (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Kristina40, Egalitare

      There is permanent damage being done to the brand names of the big 3.  The longer this uncertainty goes on, the bigger the chance that they will simply go into Chapter 7 liquidation.

      Chapter 11 will not work with these companies.  They need billions: who is is going to give it to them?

      The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

      by fladem on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:25:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  some days (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, RFK Lives, Mz Kleen, agnostic

    It's hard to tell the difference between Senate Democrats and Republicans some days. Well, lately it's been most days. You get the picture, though.

    Our side needs to learn the meaning of good governance. Compromise is one thing, but rolling over like Bambi is crazy.

    Is that too much to ask?

    -7.38, -5.23 I survived the Purple Tunnel of Doom, no thanks to DiFi. I will remember this, though. Ugh!

    by CocoaLove on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 06:51:45 AM PDT

  •  it also puts this on GOP's "watch" - eom (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Rustbelt Dem

    First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win - Gandhi

    by mysticlaker on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 06:52:05 AM PDT

  •  What terms can the WH come to that Obama (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    MD patriot, Mumsty

    can't undo?

    We're talking just a handful of weeks here. Let the GOP crow about "bringing Labor to its knees" for the Xmas Holiday. January 20, the new sheriff officially takes office and whatever the WH has in mind will become the answer to a trivia question.

    "Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will." -- Frederick Douglass

    by Egalitare on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 06:53:08 AM PDT

    •  If employees wages get cut, they get cut. (4+ / 0-)

      That cannot be undone and it undermines the union permanently. Layoffs and plant closings can be more easily undone than that, if the companies cease operations. However, if they keep operating but the UAW agrees to cuts, those salaries will never go back up.

      •  But those cuts would be CONDITIONAL (0+ / 0-)

        upon accepting the terms of the "bailout."

        Obama can simply modify the terms.

        Corker's "plan" required the UAW to agree to wage cuts they had already agreed to sooner, but not IMMEDIATELY. So there is plenty of time for Obama's team to step in and modify the terms before anyone's current wages have to be cut.

        "Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will." -- Frederick Douglass

        by Egalitare on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 08:09:25 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Please, Democrats, please... (6+ / 0-)

    Grow some spines. Heck, be assholes, if it helps workers. Barack Obama knows when to lay a smackdown (did you see him stick firm with that reporter yesterday?), and his popularity is soaring. You don't have to compliment your opponents so much.

    You don't have to cower in the corner anymore. We won. Now, get out there and fight for something, before you become labeled as "losers" again for wasting your massive landslide.

    •  They don't CARE (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      slinkerwink, MD patriot, prgsvmama26

       The Democrats WILL sell out the workers of Detroit if it means that Republicans might not say bad things about them for five minutes.

       Priorities.

      "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge."

      by Buzzer on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:02:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I choose to believe they do care (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Vladislaw

        but have Stockholm Syndrome.

        Because if they really don't care, we're pretty much screwed.

        •  Then we're screwed (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Mz Kleen

            Because after a thundering election victory, any "Stockholm syndrome" explanations pretty much wash away.

            The Democrats just don't care. They're worse than the Republicans. Because at least the Republicans don't pretend to care.

          "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge."

          by Buzzer on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:17:19 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Not neccesarily. (0+ / 0-)

            Because after a thundering election victory, any "Stockholm syndrome" explanations pretty much wash away.

            You're assuming Stockholm Syndrome has anything to do with logic (it doesn't).

            But I'm honestly not sure whether they "care" (about their professed agenda) or not since I'm not a mind-reader; just saying that a thundering victory doesn't neccesarily cure Stockholms. ;)

    •  "labeled as 'losers' again" (0+ / 0-)

      Until January 21, 2009, Harry Reid has 49 Democrats and 2 independents who caucus with them.

      On that day, he will probably have 59 Democrats, depending on how good Coleman's lawyers are at nullifying valid ballots.  It will still take 60 votes to close out a filibuster.

      If Reid gets down on his hands and knees and kisses Bob Corker's bare ass on C-SPAN, I don't care, as long as he gets aid to the carmakers without undue suffering on the part of their non-management employees.  

      Smackdowns are fun to watch on TV.  They also guarantee that your majority will be short, if those smackdowns aren't accompanied with substantive accomplishments. Because substantive accomplishments in the context of our agenda will draw filibusters, we will need to persuade at least one or two Republicans to help us, and they collectively have no incentive to help unions in the Midwest.  I'm willing to see where a conciliatory approach will get us, before we take it to the next level.

      •  59 + 1 Voinovich (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        berrieh

        We can pick off a Republican or two for the other big issues, and for everything else--it'd be nice if Harry made the fillibusterers actually . . . you know . . .fillibuster.

        It helps for the public to see their elected representatives reading the phone book and peeing in their pants to keep them uninsured, out of work, etc.

      •  Not about posturing. (0+ / 0-)

        If Reid gets down on his hands and knees and kisses Bob Corker's bare ass on C-SPAN, I don't care, as long as he gets aid to the carmakers without undue suffering on the part of their non-management employees.

        Well, me neither, but I don't think that's what's happening right now.

        I don't mean an impolite smackdown, but I do think Democrats are doing a piss-poor job of explaining how important it is not to penalize the UAW and allow the Republicans to have they're union-busting party. That's Bob Corker's agenda, and it's why we absolutely have to paint SOME Republicans as the bad guys for holding this up.

        •  Explaining how important it is (0+ / 0-)

          What if we hold off on that for just a month or so?

          Then we make a determined pretense of negotiations, wherein the UAW gives up something trivial, or at least less substantive than what Corker wanted, but it looks like the Republican rump is doing its job and containing our worst pro-labor excesses?

          Would we have to offer our souls to Voinovich or Lugar then, or could we pass this bill with enough Republican support that it wouldn't seem like one or two individuals selling out their party, but a real compromise that doesn't hurt our own constituents?

          These guys shit on us in exactly the same way as you've described, and the only things we passed through the Senate were war funding, the Patriot Act and the prescription drug bill.  For eight years of Bush in office, six of that with majorities in both houses, that's extremely little.  But that's what a determined and bitter minority does - it votes for you when it must, and holds you back whenever it can.

          •  We cannot wait a month. (0+ / 0-)

            GM will most likely file bankrupcy, which will (among other things) cancel out debts to the UAW and workers and things will be pretty bad in MI.

            I don't think we have a month before giving some kind of aid. If we did, I'd agree with you.

            Besides, we have the votes. What we don't have is a filibuster-proof vote; all Reid has to do is require a real filibuster (not the threat) to show Democrats have spines. I'm not asking him to start a unity march akin to what the Republicans pulled---just to use the tools we have rightfully earned and to speak the truth loud and clear.

    •  Yes, but by winning, we've hurt their feelings (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      bornfdup

      and we must apologize profusely for our heartless victories against the Republicans.  I mean, at the very least we should let them have their way with everything always.

      With the electorate overwhelmingly voting for Democrats across the board, they've sent a clear mandate that they want Republican policies.

      I call this the "Reid Doctrine."

  •  Corker took enough rope to hang himself (5+ / 0-)

    and the GOP. In that sense, his performance was, indeed, magnificent. I couldn't tell if he's really that stupid or is playing the freshman's traditional role shoveling manure for the party.

    "I had seen the universe as it begins for all things. It was, in reality, a child's universe, a tiny and laughing universe." Loren Eiseley

    by cadejo4 on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 06:54:24 AM PDT

  •  "Concessions from stakeholders" (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    RFK Lives, bornfdup, Rustbelt Dem

    Translation: Unless the UAW makes humiliating concessions (a human sacrifice might not be enough to placate the Republican right wing), we're not writing a check.

    "You can never guarantee victory, but you can guarantee defeat."--Hall of Fame baseball writer Leonard Koppett.

    by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 06:54:25 AM PDT

  •  OH, IN, and MI (10+ / 0-)

    Those 3 states all went blue this year.  Bob Corker is willing to risk the economic death of MI and impose grievous harm on the other 2 states so he can crush the UAW.  The Dem Senate "leadership" is openly impressed by his record in that regard.

    Rev. Niemoller's poem about Hitler's early days in Germany specifically states: "They came for the labor leaders, but I did not speak up, for I was not a labor leader."  Too bad those sorry excuses for leadership we have in the Senate apparently never read that poem.

    Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream of things that never were and ask why not?

    by RFK Lives on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 06:54:30 AM PDT

  •  I hate our leaders (4+ / 0-)

     I hate all of them. I wish them all ill.

     Republicans, for being assholes.

     Democrats, for being wusses.

     May they all roast in hell for all eternity for what they've done to this country.
     

     

     

     

    "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge."

    by Buzzer on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 06:54:48 AM PDT

  •  Harry Reid: a Republican's best friend (8+ / 0-)

    Why is this clown still a major leader in out party

    Happy just to be alive

    by exlrrp on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 06:55:01 AM PDT

    •  Precisely BECAUSE he's a weak-willed wuss (5+ / 0-)

       The most important priority for the Democratic Party is to placate Republicans. That's the reason the party exists.

       Reid is PERFECT for his role.

       What you though the Democrats were an opposition party? Where did you get THAT idea?

      "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge."

      by Buzzer on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:05:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't care if I hurt someone's feelings (5+ / 0-)

        and if I did, I wouldn't have had the spine to phone-bank and canvass door-to-door.

        The Democratic leaders need to have as much spine as their grass-roots supporters.

        I fought HARD to get DEMS in control of both houses of congress and the White House.

        To see Democrats suck up to Repukes is a slap in the face.

        It all started with letting Joe "the traitor" Lieberman keep his chairmanship.  That set the tone.  I'm sooo tired of this shit.

        When will the Democratic leadership decide to STAND FOR SOMETHING?  I'm tired of waiting for tommorrow.  Let's start NOW.  There is no time to lose.  "The Fierce Urgency of Now" must become something more than a campaign slogan.

  •  "Viable and competitive" (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Mz Kleen, StephanM

    why does that sound like a description of live bait in the lions den?

    Isn't the modern definition of competitive, "able to be destroyed and acquired cheap"?

    Didn't we just learn that much of the TARP money went to acquire financial institutions before they fell into bankruptcy?

    Which would seem to suggest that the real meaning of bailout is "life support"  until we figure out who gets to pull the plug.

    http://www.youtube.com/cyprespond

    by hannah on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 06:55:19 AM PDT

    •  Were are all the supporters of TARP now..? (0+ / 0-)

      I remember being lambasted for questioning the wisdom of that PoS bill at the time.  Now the chickens are coming home to roost.  Where are the defenders of TARP..?  We won't get fooled again?  Yea, right...

      Please do not take anything I say as being Authoritative, Enlightened or well thought out...

      by StephanM on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 10:04:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Corker was magnificent (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Linnaeus, Bluehawk, Rustbelt Dem, Mumsty

    It is now the Republicans' hot potato.

    The only deal we need right now is one that will get the automakers into the spring and not tie Obama's hands.

    Congressional action had the risk of tying Obama's hands.  Something that happens purely on the executive side does not have so great a risk of that.

    And the workers in the auto industry both in Detroit and on the plantation know exactly who does not have their interest at heart.  Time for runs in SC, TN, and AL against those Senators and Congressmen who pretend to support the local auto industry but are really playing out their ideology at the expense of prosperity.  And because of the cloture vote, we now know exactly who to run against.

    50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts

    by TarheelDem on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 06:55:24 AM PDT

  •  Next? (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Mz Kleen, DailyKingFish

    We'll have to wait and see how this history gets written, though of course "we'll all be dead."

    We are already dead, now is the time to fight like it.

    The man who has nothing and nothing to lose is the one to fear.

    •  Revolution! It's time for another (0+ / 0-)

      Boston Tea Party!

      I'll bet our founding fathers are just spinning in their graves right now, and thinking...WTF are they doing?  Arrgghhh!!

      If the people lead, the leaders will follow.

      by Mz Kleen on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 09:38:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No WTF (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Mz Kleen

        are they doing, WTF are we doing?

        D.C. knows this. Look at FISA, look at the breadth of Bush's domestic spying, look at the Patriot Act as to who is a terrorist...look at the economy, the job and housing failures. Soon, many will have nothing more to lose. Number 44 knows this.

        The most pressing question Sunday pundits should be asking.
        Do you fear the unrest bubbling in this country? Do you feel it? Do you think it could happen again?

        This is why Obama can't fail. I believe he is up to the task.

  •  Asshat, definitely Asshat..... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    bustacap

    -7.88, -6.72. "Wherever law ends, tyranny begins."--John Locke

    by caseynm on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 06:56:22 AM PDT

  •  But Bounces are OK (0+ / 0-)

    it's pretty sad to watch this come down the way it is.
    I Hope the big 3 can make it till Jan 20th.

    you cant fool all of the people all of the time unless they watch fox news

    by eeff on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 06:56:24 AM PDT

  •  Looks like Bankruptcy for GM (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Vladislaw

    GM will file Chap 11 and wipe out its bond and share holders as well as many of its debts to the UAW.

    GM will walk away with billions of tax dollars and a clean slate.

    •  Why are GM shares trading for $4.25? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Rustbelt Dem

      The company is headed for Chapter 11 reorganization, either in bankruptcy court or under an Executive Branch official. Either way, common shareholders are going to be left out in the cold--and it's well below freezing here in Detroit.

      "You can never guarantee victory, but you can guarantee defeat."--Hall of Fame baseball writer Leonard Koppett.

      by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:00:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Short GM (0+ / 1-)

        Hidden by:
        Interceptor7

        I would definitely be selling GM now.

        Both Obama and Bush have been talking about a "pre-packaged" bankrupcy filing as part of the federal bailout, and we all know their are no other financial options on the table.

        •  Obama never talked BK for GM (0+ / 0-)

          and we all know their are no other financial options on the table.

          What? There are plenty of options before sending 3 million people to the unemployment line, which would cost upwards of $100 million in benefits that would not be repaid, unlike the paltry loan the automakers are asking for.

          If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. -John F. Kennedy

          by Interceptor7 on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 08:27:52 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You weren't listening (0+ / 0-)

            He isn't talking about liquidation under Chap 7.

            This will be a "pre-packaged" Chap 11 filing where business goes on as usual, but debts are eliminated and GM gets billions in federal financing.

            •  no, you are not paying attention (0+ / 0-)

              Obama never mentioned Chap 11 or 7.
              Go shill for the Repugs on Red State with the rest of your boneheaded buddies.

              If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. -John F. Kennedy

              by Interceptor7 on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 09:32:22 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Obama specifically mentioned Pre-packaged Chap 11 (0+ / 0-)

                as an option to go with the Federal financing.

                You think Obama is stupid?  Is he just going to hand billions of tax $$$ over to GM management with no strings attached?  Yeah, right.

              •  Why don't you learn to Google before you post BS? (0+ / 0-)

                Nov. 21 (Bloomberg) -- President-Elect Barack Obama's transition team is exploring a swift, prepackaged bankruptcy for automakers as a possible solution to the industry's financial crisis, according to a person familiar with the matter.

                A representative of Obama's team has already contacted at least one bankruptcy-law firm to say that Daniel Tarullo, a professor at Georgetown University's law school who heads Obama's economic policy working group, would call to discuss the workings of a so-called prepack, according to this person.

                Bankruptcy is just one option being examined. Obama told CBS News's ``60 Minutes'' on Nov. 16

                You must be the only person here who hasn't heard this.

    •  GM will not survive bankruptcy (0+ / 0-)

      I'm sure that consumers will rush out to buy a $20,000-$30,000 machine from a bankrupt manufacturer.
      Consumers won't buy cars now even with 0% financing and thousands in rebates.
      If GM goes BK, they are out of business.

      If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. -John F. Kennedy

      by Interceptor7 on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 08:24:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  "Pre-Packaged" (0+ / 1-)

        Hidden by:
        Interceptor7

        Everything is agreed before filing.

        Then you file and you are in and out in one day.

        All GM's creditors get a major haircut, but its business runs without interruption and now GM is debt-free with billions of tax dollars in its pocket.

        Problems are solved so just sell cars.

        •  no, you're wrong Republican (0+ / 0-)

          Filing bankruptcy is just a bit more complicated than a trip to the convenience store.
          For one thing, GM's suppliers would be forced into  bakruptcy as well, causing parts shortages for Ford, Chrysler, and Japanese suppliers as well.
          Your point is poorly made and false in it's assumptions.
          Given your diary history though, it's no surprise to see you shilling for the Repugs.

          If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. -John F. Kennedy

          by Interceptor7 on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 09:31:03 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I thought name-calling was not allowed (0+ / 0-)

            GM's suppliers will be fine as long as they don't have any outstanding invoices that GM owes them.

            Business goes on as usual although the stock and bond holders are wiped out.  Maybe you are one of them.  If so, you are sh*t out of luck.

      •  I don't buy it... (0+ / 0-)

        Airlines survived bankruptcy.  There is enought "Buy American" spirit out there to save 2 of the big 3.  I've always driven a GM.  I like GM cars and I would buy one even if they were bankrupt.  I'm sure I'm not the only one.

        Please do not take anything I say as being Authoritative, Enlightened or well thought out...

        by StephanM on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 10:08:36 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  That's it. I will not vote/donate to Durbin (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    testvet6778, Interceptor7

    ever again. This sack of crap has gone too far.

    Democratic senators, congressmen/women, and officials: Not spineless, weak, or scared. Just corrupt.

    by iconoclastic cat on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 06:59:28 AM PDT

  •  hm, better luck with Scarlett next time! (0+ / 0-)

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. -- Mark Twain ... or was it Groucho?

    by Christian Wright on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:00:02 AM PDT

  •  my wife helped Chrsyler yesterday (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    ekthesy, Mz Kleen, trinite, Vladislaw

    she bought a new Sebring  got a great deal on it to, 13,900 leather seats, Garmin, 4 wheel  disc, it's a nice car I am surprised she picked out this one   the list prices will scare you  but they are dealing  it helps if you already have the financing ahead of time   we got it thru the credit union  unlike Mika I can't afford to pay cash for cars..lol

  •  GWB & Peeps Are Getting (4+ / 0-)

    auto bailout/rescue/whatever advice from Senator Corker?! Well, people whose livelihoods depend on the auto industry better get ready for a long rest of their lives, get ready for welfare, etc.

    "I think 1 of us is supposed to take our pants off now." Keith Olbermann, ChatRoulette

    by CityLightsLover on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:04:18 AM PDT

  •  Isn't the obvious thing... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    lysias, slowheels2

    to tell the automakers to sit tight for just 4 more weeks. Pull away from talks with this administration and talk with the Obama team...on day one they can set a previously devised loan program into motion. These companies aren't going to go out of business in the next month.

    It seems to obvious to me...why isn't anyone doing this?

  •  How about pay cuts for all executives across (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Mz Kleen, testvet6778, trinite

    the board, limits in executive compensation, no bonuses. Why do the blue collar middle class people have to take pay cuts while all the rich executives don't. Something is backwards here.

    All of the true things I am about to tell you are shameless lies.- Bokonon

    by ryan81 on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:07:15 AM PDT

  •  GOP needs to do more damage to working Americans (4+ / 0-)

    I guess they haven't done enough already, and Democrats, starting with Reid (if he really is a Democrat), are prepared to go along.  Is this what "change" is going to be?  It's absolutely criminal to force American workers to compete with Asian wages when we still have American prices and no universal health care.  

  •  Screw the White House and screw Corker (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    lysias, trinite, kevin k, Mumsty

    We are two weeks away from a new Congress and just about a month away from a new Administration.

    The hell with this deal. The car companies can scrape by for a month, and then let's put a deal on the table that will work for all parties -- including the millions of workers and retirees that the Republicans are so dead-set on destroying.

  •  How about pay cuts for senators and congressmen? (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    JonBarleycorn, ryan81, schnecke21

    And while we're at it, maybe we can make them pay for part of their own health care and cut the number of people who do all their work.  Don't we all have to sacrifice?

  •  I foolishly thought that Bush was going to lead (0+ / 0-)

    for awhile when he seemed to stand up to Congress and say that the bailout would come from the TARP funds.  Ooops.  Once again, he's proving that he's just a Republican fool.  This will turn into a bailout conditioned on busting the unions.  And everyone will pay.

  •  Pretty sure (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Mz Kleen, Vladislaw

    MSNBC had an article of Corker up calling him the "New Hero" of the senate.  This shit is disgusting.  I mean I could be Machiavellian and assume Reid and all are playing up Corker as a leader because they think they can destroy him once the new congress starts, but its Harry Reid so fat chance in hell that's what's going on.

    This is blogging, not war. If you need to call in reinforcements then you're doing it wrong.

    by Jeffersonian on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:11:26 AM PDT

  •  well sure hope the dems don't ever expect (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    trinite

    another cent from this voter.

    "What is this country FOR if not to take care of its people?" Keith Olbermann

    by lisastar on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:11:49 AM PDT

  •  Screw these people (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    lysias

    Is there no individual or business who can loan the big three a few billion on a short-term basis?  

    I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper. - President Barack Obama

    by ThirstyGator on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:12:04 AM PDT

  •  Scarlett (0+ / 0-)

    Whatever.  My deal fell through before yours did.

  •  Bush is hopeless. (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    kevin k

    He doesn't understand what it means to be honest, humble, and hardworking.  He never had to do any of these things to get where he is.  That's the very sad part.  He's also a practiced liar.

  •  It will depend on how much the auto (0+ / 0-)

    makers are willing to contribute to the Bush Library.

  •  can we ge trid of this ass-wipe reid?? (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    ThirstyGator, trinite, kevin k

    "but I would not be convicted by a jury of my peers. still crazy after all these years".....

    by JadeZ on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:14:47 AM PDT

  •  Senate GOP (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    bustacap, Mz Kleen, caps lock on

    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

    Here we are now Entertain us I feel stupid and contagious

    by Scarce on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:20:39 AM PDT

  •  January 6, 2009 (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    bustacap

    The new Congress convenes on 1/6/09.  The first order of business for the Dems should be to do the auto bailout.  If the WH is unreasonable all GM has to do is wait a week and they are home free.  I find it hard to believe that GM can't keep the ball in the air for a couple weeks as long as they know that help is on the way.  

  •  A great article (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    trillian, Dump Terry McAuliffe

    Corker's intent is to kill the union.  Period.

    The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

    by fladem on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:22:34 AM PDT

  •  I'm on the edge of my seat!!111 n/t (0+ / 0-)

    Guide to my comments: When in doubt, assume sarcasm.

    by Gray on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:23:16 AM PDT

  •  WHY DO WE STILL HAVE REID AS ML???????????????? (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Mz Kleen, kevin k

    Maybe we should pick a better Dem, like Lieberman...

    The Seminole Democrat
    A blue voice calling from the deep red

    by SemDem on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:27:17 AM PDT

  •  Congress: Stop doing things with this White House (0+ / 0-)

    These people are suckers.  I know bad things will happen in the next two months, but you aren't going to stop them by making "compromises" with George W. Bush.  Wait until he is out of office and the train has hit the bottom of the cliff.

  •  Scarlett Johansson?? Fugettaboutit! (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    geez53

    I got dibs!

    Ya know, considering how dumb Bush looks and talks all the time, he sure does seem to be able to constantly pull one over on the Dems in Congress.  This is like his final flip of the bird to those asshats down the street.  The WH had this shit planned all along with Congressional Repubs.

    I don't know if it says more about how clever Bush is or how stupid the Congressional leaders are.. un-fucking-believable.

    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - G. Marx

    by Skeptical Bastard on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:28:15 AM PDT

  •  Little that congress can do. (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Mz Kleen

    Some things to consider.
    Going chapter 11 means creditors get in line. Thats all the small and not so small parts suppliers, the machine shops that service them, freight companys, banks. They all go to court and are told how much they are going to be paid. Generaly thats a small percentage of what they are owed, wich will cause lots of them to file chaper 11. Wich will lead to more material suppliers and their support industrys failing.
    All that means hundreds of thousands of people out of work. Wich means forclosures and personal bankruptcys.
    Thats why bankruptcy doesn't work. It leaves no way to manage the collateral damage. I have no love of unions. I think they are a mixed bag in this age. But I also recognize there neccesity in a country who's laws are made by the very rich.
    The unions need to make wage concessions, but they should be structured in a way that they can be spread out, so we don't put families already stretched budgets under too much imediate strain.
    White collar should take cuts and agree not to get raises or bonuses until blue collar workers recieve the same. And how about taking away free legal aid.
    I could go on, but some of you have already quit reading. I live in Michigan, we just want some one to care.

    •  Unions HAVE conceded (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Mz Kleen, geez53, Interceptor7, creamer

      Next step, give back their houses.

      Just tell the truth, it's faster.

      by slowheels2 on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:42:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  If a Supplier Bankrupts, (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      creamer

      it shuts down its own factory,
      and it shuts down EVERY car that it supplies.

      How long ?

      Depends on how long it takes to get the machinery up and running again, someplace else.

      Which depends on the Judge.

      Visualize Ford, for instance, as a house.

      The foundation is made of countless parts suppliers.

      If  the XYZ-CORP makes the interiors for a truck,
      and a Creditor (Bank) closes them,
      no trucks get made.

      It takes a LONG time to replace that loss of supply.

      Regardless of how good your house is,
      if your foundation is removed, the house will come down.

      Thank goodness, the local Judges usually comprehend all this. At least in Detroit. I worry for outlying Suppliers.

      Like, in Corkerville.

      Just tell the truth, it's faster.

      by slowheels2 on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:50:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Unions like government need (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      creamer

      involved people to advance the well being of it's citizens/members and to keep them honest , anyone can become corrupt if allowed to do so .

  •  Still wonder why Joementum wasn't booted (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    lysias

    Majority Leader Harry Reid seconded McConnell’s assessment. "I’ve been extremely impressed with Bob Corker," says Reid, a Nevada Democrat. Illinois Senator Dick Durbin, the No. 2 Democrat, says Corker did a "magnificent job."

    The fraternity of all fraternities...

    "Just today, Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." Sen. Barack Obama

    by justmy2 on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:36:36 AM PDT

  •  Magnificent? Impressed with Bob Corker? (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Mz Kleen

    I'll be impressed if Harry Reid makes it past his primary in two years.

    "If you want to live like a Republican, vote for the Democrats." - Harry S. Truman

    by RedStateProgressive on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:37:21 AM PDT

  •  Barack named Time's Person of the Year (0+ / 0-)

    I know, you are all shocked...SHOCKED!

  •  Reagan Democrats (0+ / 0-)

    As I remember it the so-called "Reagan Democrats" started voting for Republicans precisely because the Democratic Party began to abandon organized labor in the '80s. Since Dems offered nothing of value in terms of real representation to working people these working-class Dems started voting for Republicans and their emotionally-charged wedge issues such as abortion. It's looking as if Reid and Durbin have learned nothing from this bit of history.

  •  Is it just plain out extortion ? (0+ / 0-)

    Crush the working man or we'll destroy you ?

  •  So what wall should I bang my head against (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Mz Kleen, geez53

    after working so hard to get these Dems in power? Is K street that pervasive with the Dems? Are they so dim-witted they cannot see what DKos sees? Arrghhh!

    Well? Shall we go? At least that man is gone.

    by whenwego on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 07:50:05 AM PDT

  •  Even with a majority, Repulbicans get their way (0+ / 0-)

    on EVERYTHING.

    Fucking weak sell-out Democrats.

    3rd party anyone?   For everything besides the presidency, that's how I'm voting from now on.  

  •  Unions to vote Republican !!!!!!!! (0+ / 0-)

    That would get the GOP to endorse to bailout for the auto makers.......

  •  weakness (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    iconoclastic cat, Mz Kleen

    Majority Leader Harry Reid seconded McConnell’s assessment. "I’ve been extremely impressed with Bob Corker," says Reid, a Nevada Democrat. Illinois Senator Dick Durbin, the No. 2 Democrat, says Corker did a "magnificent job."

    Why do Dems always sound like weaklings?  Why do they always try to lure crazy opponents to compromise?  Is there any Dem Senator with enough spine to curse out the obstructionists and call them unpatriotic?  I'm liking Dems less since our "victory."

  •  Let's see Toyota match GM wages (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    geez53

    and then we will have a level playing field.
    While we're at it, let's have Toyota, Honda, VW, BMW, Hyundai, and Kia give back the massive subsidies that southern states gave them.
    Then we would be about square.

    If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. -John F. Kennedy

    by Interceptor7 on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 08:37:09 AM PDT

  •  O/T Good thing Salazar has Obama's Sec Serv (0+ / 0-)

    umbrella, cowboy hat in downtown Chicago? ;}
    (presser to announce Salazar and Vilsak)

    IGTNT...Honor the Fallen...Grace Their Loved Ones.

    by geez53 on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 08:56:07 AM PDT

  •  Harry Reid (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Mz Kleen

    is going to let a handful of Republican Senators run the country during Obama's Presidency.  

  •  Look, we have to wait till January (0+ / 0-)

    Obviously, the Republicans are incapable of acting like grownups, and so we have to wait till the grownups have reinforcements. Apologize to the people, but it's not in our zone of control.

    Congress's role until January 20 is to keep a couple of short-straw people in the chamber to prevent more recess appointments by Bush, and that's it.  As long as Bush refuses to step down early, that's it.

    And if the Big Three go under by then, President Obama can nationalize the auto industry and put people to work building energy efficient cars.

    "Don't worry! Our Health Care Bill is going to a big farm, where it will have plenty of room to run around!" --attributed to Barack Obama

    by AdmiralNaismith on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 09:25:48 AM PDT

  •  Fuck Corker, Reid and Durbin. (0+ / 0-)

    WTF is going on in Washington?  WTF is going on with our Dem leaders?  Why is Reid and Durbin kissing Corker's ass?  WTF????

    If the people lead, the leaders will follow.

    by Mz Kleen on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 09:34:35 AM PDT

  •  Forget the Bailout (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    tigersken

    At this point, I think it is better to do nothing.  Let them go into bankruptcy.  It will mean re-negotiation.  Would you rather have the UAW re-negotiate with the companies or have a DC wonk (of either party) dictating terms that aren't rooted in the sustainability of the companies?  Let all the parties play by the rules and oppose the bailouts.  Let renegotiation occur and public pressure on the companies push for better products and fewer models.  Better to use a small portion of the money targeted for the bailout for extending unemployment benefits across the country than propping up companies that need to go out of business or be re-organized.

    •  Yea, screw you UAW... (0+ / 0-)

      You can pay the price for your management's mistakes.  But don't worry, we'll make sure you get a few more weeks of unemployment.  It shouldn't take more than a few years to sort out the bankruptcy thing.  Once you loose your house, you'll have more money for food.

      Rich people make me sick.  Capitalism sucks!  

      Please do not take anything I say as being Authoritative, Enlightened or well thought out...

      by StephanM on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 10:25:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  agreed...time to let them fail (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Support Civil Liberty

      its time for detroit to start over

  •  Maybe I'm off here (0+ / 0-)

    Something doesn't smell right to me.  The White House reverses (well, almost) its position on using TARP funds for a bridge loan, and now we're waiting for the next move after the Senate Republicans effectively blocked a loan bill in Congress.

    I guess that this doesn't seem to add up, given how on-message the White House and the GOP caucus in Congress have been for years.  Party discipline has all of a sudden broken down?  I realize that I'm only speculating here, but what if this is all orchestrated?  The White House and the Republicans in Congress get to look "reasonable," and the responsibility for all of this failing gets put on the Democrats and their allies.

    Procrastination: Hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always pays off now.

    by Linnaeus on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 11:13:09 AM PDT

  •  I am already so fed up (0+ / 0-)

    with Senate Democrats, i cancelled my Democratic membership. This Senate will prove to be Obama`s biggest obstacle in passing his legislation.

    I did campaign on the public option, and I'm proud of it! Corporat Democrats will not get my vote, hence I will not vote.

    by Jazzenterprises on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 12:11:41 PM PDT

Permalink | 177 comments