Daily Kos

So It's Come To This: Barack Obama For President 2008

Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 05:31:47 PM PDT

My intention, after John Edwards dropped out of the race, was to go into Washington's caucus on February 9 as Uncommitted. We have two fine candidates, who would both make fine presidents, and with the loss of the only candidate who really spoke passionately about the economic divisions in this country I was in no hurry to make up my mind. Since then, I've spent a bit of time thinking about the presidential race as it stands today, and though I'm under no illusions that anyone really cares what a nobody like me thinks, I've decided that the choice we face now, and the outcome thereof, is too significant to justify remaining officially undecided. One week from tomorrow, therefore, I intend to caucus as a supporter of Barack Obama.

Please, withhold your applause until the end. You may not like what I have to say.

I'm on record as believing that anyone we nominate this year will beat any Republican in a walk. Either I'm right about that, or I'm wrong. If I'm wrong, that means the Republican could win, and we need to nominate the candidate who has the best chance of preventing that from happening. Even if I'm right, I'd much rather we sweep into office with a broad mandate than slip by in a 2000-like squeaker. In both cases, I believe the clear choice needs to be Sen. Obama.

I retain a great deal of respect and affection for Hillary Clinton, who for the past sixteen years has been subject to a staggering amount of the kind of abuse I would not wish on my worst enemy, from people who by and large are not fit to kiss her feet. She is bright, competent, and a shrewd politician, and though we disagree on a number of issues, I'd be proud to support her and cast my vote for her. But the single biggest drawback of her campaign, as we've known for the last three years, is that she is guaranteed to energize a demoralized, disillusioned Republican base. And if possible, demoralized and disillusioned is how I'd like the Republican base to be.

Of course, we can't forget how successful the Republicans were at energizing sentiment against John Kerry, one of the most inoffensive creatures ever to walk God's green earth. If they could do it to Kerry, they could do it to Obama too. And, frankly, he doesn't strike me as a person who deals with criticism well, a trait that has manifested in the debates as well as in the mini-tantrums his campaign threw over attacks from the Clinton camp that--face it--were like the touch of a feather compared to what he'll be facing from the GOP this fall. Barack Obama really, really needs to learn to suck it up and play hardball in the general election. (Actually, he could do a lot worse than to hire Clinton's oppo-research and rapid response teams; those folks play for keeps.) Still, we face a choice between a candidate that the Republican base hasn't yet learned to hate and one that they absolutely loathe with red-faced, spittle-flecked fury. Nothing is worse than a Republican troglodyte who's feeling pissed off and full of beans, and I can't imagine not doing everything we can to neutralize them.

The apparent consolidation of support around John McCain as the presumptive Republican nominee also lends a certain urgency to this choice. McCain is a likable, charismatic man with a compelling personal story and a great deal of potential to attract supporters across the political spectrum. He's also 72 years old, and as anyone who's watched him on the stump or in a debate can attest, he comes across these days as tired, unenthusiastic, and even depressed, like an emergency room doctor who has terrible news for you about your spouse's condition. We have an opportunity to give the American people a choice between a worn-out-seeming elderly man and a young, energetic figure with a message of hope. The last time we saw a contest like this was in 1996, between Bill Clinton and Bob Dole, and it did not end well for Bob Dole.

So now we come to the factor that, though it didn't dissuade me from making this choice, has certainly led me to dread it. Califlander, in what must surely be considered one of the best comments posted to Daily Kos last month, quoted a professor of his/hers:

Nothing will turn a man away from a good cause more than the thought of the jerks he will have to stand next to at the barricades.

Among the ranks of the Obama supporters here are some who are absolutely the worst, the worst, people I have ever encountered on the left side of the aisle in more than twenty years of being interested and involved with politics. I don't choose my words lightly, and yes, as a matter of fact I do mean to frame it in terms of morals and personal character. And no, frankly, it's not the same for every candidate. The people I'm talking about have violated just about every social norm this site has, repeatedly and maliciously. They display all the hallmarks of a cult, and not a happy-go-lucky cult like the Hare Krishnas, either. No person may criticize Barack Obama and escape their wrath. (Just ask Paul Krugman... or Joe Wilson.) The baseless, carelessly-slung insinuations of racism that were SOP for the Obama militia for a while toward the end of the year remain an open sore upon this community, which has worked so hard for so long opposing racism.

I'd rather not give names, though I can't imagine I'd need to.

If I may now address this small subset of Obama's fan base specifically: What the fuck is wrong with you people? If your goal is to get more people to support Obama, why would you go about it in the most alienating manner possible? Do you not even see the flaw in that strategy? What could possibly lead you to believe that the scorched-earth, mau-mau tactics you've employed for months accomplish anything other than to shame you, and by extension, the candidate you claim to support?

This diary is not an attempt to bury the hatchet. I don't like you and I never will. My support for Barack Obama comes not because of you, but in spite of you. The primary season will be over soon enough, and we'll all be on the same side again, working toward the same goal, but you'll never be able to erase what you've done and, indeed, what you are. I have a long memory and I hold grudges, and I doubt very much that I'm alone.

I say this not in an attempt to redeem you; it's too late for that. I hope instead to make an example out of you. In a few weeks' time, I hope, we will all be Obama supporters. And if that happens, I can't think of anything worse for our candidate than to see more people turn out like you.

Tags: Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, John McCain (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 106 comments

    •  Um ... cheers? (7+ / 0-)

      Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

      by bumblebums on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 05:33:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Wow (6+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Chi, Pd, highacidity, earwulf, DrMicro, allie123

      This diary is not an attempt to bury the hatchet. I don't like you and I never will. My support for Barack Obama comes not because of you, but in spite of you. The primary season will be over soon enough, and we'll all be on the same side again, working toward the same goal, but you'll never be able to erase what you've done and, indeed, what you are. I have a long memory and I hold grudges, and I doubt very much that I'm alone.

      I say this not in an attempt to redeem you; it's too late for that. I hope instead to make an example out of you. In a few weeks' time, I hope, we will all be Obama supporters. And if that happens, I can't think of anything worse for our candidate than to see more people turn out like you.

      Sorry you see us that way. Glad you plan to caucus for Obama. Perhaps in time you will change how you feel about those of us who supported Obama for the past year. If not, perhaps seeing Obama become President will be reason enough for you to forgive and forget.

      •  If Obama being president can do that... (6+ / 0-)

        ...then he will be a very great president indeed. And I do believe Obama can become a very great president indeed.

        •  I'm another Edwards supporter who (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          phenry, jre2k8

          has finally decided to vote for Obama.  I have really struggled with this decision, but this election is so important that I feel I have to choose one of the two remaining candidates.

          Like you, I feel that many Obama supporters did their best to drive me away from voting for him.  I'm doing this in spite of the nasty, horrible things that have been said to me by Obama supporters and that I have seen said and done to others (baseless TRs).  

          Since I'd finally made this decision, I went into a recommended Obama diary tonight, and guess what?  Even though I said I'm voting for him, I was lectured and condescended to (told to look up Reagan Democrats) because I'm a little nervous at all the talk that Obama is such a huge hit with right wing Republicans.  I had to excuse myself from the thread.

          I wonder if Daily Kos will ever be anything like it was before?  Am I going to have to go elsewhere even if I'm voting for Obama--because I can see that he has a few faults?

          There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious...that you've got to put your bodies on the gears...and make it stop. -- Mario Savio

          by Boston Boomer on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 06:42:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  So, you assume that the diarist was speaking (4+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Boston Boomer, eleanora, jre2k8, zbctj52

        to you?  Interesting...because, as a Clinton supporter I have come across many strong and thoughtful advocates for Obama.  Then there are the ones to whom the comments by the diarist that you reposted were directed to...And if you are not aware of the difference perhaps you have missed them.  But, they are there....

        No person may criticize Barack Obama and escape their wrath. (Just ask Paul Krugman... or Joe Wilson.) The baseless, carelessly-slung insinuations of racism that were SOP for the Obama militia for a while toward the end of the year remain an open sore upon this community, which has worked so hard for so long opposing racism.

        Its all true!

        •  Exactly what I have been thinking (5+ / 0-)

          The Krugman attacks made me nuts- - I think he's a very thoughtful, articulate progessive.  And sometimes Obama (dare I say BO?) takes a position to the right of HRC.  I'm willing to be excited about him,  and then I listen to his supporters.  And then I miss Edwards, and I miss Gore,and I wish Feingold had run.....

          Having an idiot-proof system doesn't mean you don't have idiots. It just means you can transcend them. Jonathan Turley

          by janmtairy on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 06:28:56 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I am glad that you are supporting obama (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      highacidity

      i am new here so missed the problems, thankfully.  but i like the first half of your diary.  no opinion on the 2nd half.

      •  You haven't missed them yet. (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        phenry

        Many of the Obama fans are just as nasty as ever--even though their candidate is doing so well.

        There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious...that you've got to put your bodies on the gears...and make it stop. -- Mario Savio

        by Boston Boomer on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 06:44:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Allie, can I ask you something? (0+ / 0-)

        When did you join?  Around what date?  I ask only to try to figure out how long folks have been around.  We go in fits and spurts as far as sign ups and when I look at UIDs, it's sometimes hard to know how long someone has been here.

        I know we're at about 150,000 now.  I'm thinking you've been here since late summer, maybe?

        And, as always, you don't have to reply to this.  Just wondering.

        America: Show your support for it with more than jingoistic slogans or leave it.

        by CJB on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 07:41:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I suspect you're not alone (5+ / 0-)

      In fact, perhaps, subconsciously, the attitude of some Obama supporters may have been the straw that pushed me from undecided to being an Edwards supporter a few months back. I've been on the Obama bandwagon for a few weeks now and it has everything to do with Obama, whom I've always liked and leaned toward for a while alomst a year ago, and nothing to do with most of his vocal advocates at dKos.

      My feelings are nowhere near as strong as yours on this matter, but I understand completely and I'm glad you were able to seperate the man from the fans. Not to say Clinton and Edwards didn't both have green meanies and blind maniacs on their side, but the Obama side seems to have had more than it's fair share.

    •  A test for Obamacans (5+ / 0-)

      Even though I might still end up supporting Obama, this flyer is horrible.

      Paul Krugman is right and Barack Obama is wrong.

      Should I STFU and support Obama, talk about this stuff and support Obama, STFU and support Clinton, talk about this stuff and support Clinton, or just generally STFU?

      http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/...

      The Jed Report | Barack Obama for President

      by JedReport on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 06:07:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ugh, Harry and Louise ride again. (4+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        eleanora, jre2k8, zbctj52, JedReport

        Ezra Klein is right on.

      •  thats a pretty good ad (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        pHunbalanced, eltee

        I like it.   Not sure what Krugman's problem with it is but it's a legitimate argument against Hillary's healthcare plan.  

        "To you, I'm an atheist; to God, I'm the Loyal Opposition." - Woody Allen

        by soros on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 06:31:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Did we hear Krugman (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          latts, eltee

          Write with this truculence about the "pro-choice" mailers Hillary sent out in New Hampshire.

          Presumably he agrees with her false attacks?

          Unless I hear from him about that, I am inclined to believe he has an "Obama" agenda that he may wish to share with us.

          •  Conspiracies (0+ / 0-)

            There is no doubt that Paul Krugman has concerns about Barack Obama.

            To understand why, you should read this.

            As for the pro-choice stuff, he really doesn't write about abortion, though I'm inclined to think he'd agree that Hillary was way off base.

            He is by the way, perfectly willing to slam Hillary Clinton, as you can see here. He's also criticized her on health care.

            Hillary Clinton, however, has been evasive. She conveys the impression that there’s not much difference between her policy positions and those of the other candidates — but she’s offered few specifics. In particular, unlike Mr. Edwards or Mr. Obama, she hasn’t announced a specific universal care plan, or explicitly committed herself to paying for health reform by letting some of the Bush tax cuts expire.

            For those who believe that the time for universal care has come, this lack of specifics is disturbing. In fact, what Mrs. Clinton said about health care in February’s Democratic debate suggested a notable lack of urgency: "Well, I want to have universal health care coverage by the end of my second term."

            On Saturday, at the YearlyKos Convention in Chicago, she sounded more forceful: "Universal health care will be my highest domestic priority as president." But does this represent a real change in position? It’s hard to know, since she has said nothing about how she would cover the uninsured.

            And even if you believe Mrs. Clinton’s contention that her positions could never be influenced by lobbyists’ money — a remark that drew boos and hisses from the Chicago crowd — there’s reason to worry about the big contributions she receives from the insurance and drug industries. Are they simply betting on the front-runner, or are they also backing the Democratic candidate least likely to hurt their profits?

            All of the leading Democratic candidates are articulate and impressive. It’s easy to imagine any of them as president. But after what happened in 2000, it worries me that Mrs. Clinton is showing an almost Republican aversion to talking about substance.

            (He was an Edwards supporter, obviously.)

            The most important point is that by the very framing your answer, you simply don't understand what the criticism is of Obama.

            Since you don't understand it, you can't disagree with it -- yet.

            I'd urge you to try and understand it, so you can come up with a more informed position on whether or not you agree with Obama.

            That's something you're going to have to decide to do on your own, but the hint that I'll give you is this: the big difference between Hillary's false mailing on abortion and Obama's false mailing on health care is that Hillary's mailing is not going to make it harder to defend the right to choose, whereas Obama's mailing is going to make it harder to achieve universal health care.

            The Jed Report | Barack Obama for President

            by JedReport on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 07:15:12 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  no, the mailing will make (0+ / 0-)

              it harder to support mandatory purchase of private health insurance.

              If you want to equate Federally forced purchase of private health insurance with national health care, you are invited to discuss this with Nataline Sarkisyan. But you'll need a Ouija Board to do this. She died while waiting for a transplant CIGNA denied her.

              Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

              by alizard on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 03:55:48 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  I have read Krugman for years (0+ / 0-)

              But of late I have my "concerns" about his agenda.

              I am not sure whether his current position is pro-Edwards or as I suspect anti-Obama.

              I am a moderate so a bias to the right or left is highly discernible.

              Somehow Krugman does not pass my 'smell" test as of now.

        •  It's pretty easy to learn what his problem is (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          jre2k8

          I mean, you  might not agree with him, but it's worth finding out.

          The Jed Report | Barack Obama for President

          by JedReport on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 07:06:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Why is this offensive?? (0+ / 0-)

          Did Krugman complain when Hillary's ads said that Obama's health care doesn't cover everyone -- no, he wrote a freaking column about why mandates were a good thing.

          And while I understood his argument I STILL disagreed. I remember feeling very frustrated because most folks didn't understand that "universal" meant compulsion under penalty of law. That IS what it means and I'm very glad Obama's campaign has literature out there now about it.

          Completely fair and hopefully effective. People need to know the difference and then make their own decision.

          Is there a lie or some sort of dishonesty here I'm missing??

      •  the flyer seems accurate enough (0+ / 0-)

        I think we're better off with no national health care than in codifying the current non-system, particularly the part health insurance companies are intended to play, into Federal law.

        Remember, regardless of what Krugman says, a mandatory health insurance program provides subsidy profits for the health insurance industry, not health care. If you need examples of how well the system Krugman and HRC want to subsidize delivers health care, go read Nyceve's last 100 diaries or so.

        If you want to see how well ExtortionCare works when tried, go research RomneyCare in MA for a state-level example of a trainwreck in progress.

        IMO, talk up Obama and prepare for a massive effort after he gets elected to push him and Congressional Democrats into single payer whether they and their campaign donors like it or not.

        Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

        by alizard on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 03:48:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  WELCOME ABOARD!!! (0+ / 0-)

      Couldn't resist.

      Particularly given that you've given Hillary's most rabid supporters a free pass, despite the fact that I would consider your description of Obama supporters equally applicable to HRC's fan base.

      True Believers have more in common with each other than they do with sane people, no matter who the person or cause is they favor.

      I'm still uncommitted to a specific candidate, I turned in a primary ballot with no Presidential choice marked. For the first time since I registered to vote in 1972. The issue was the respective candidates' health plans.

      I'll vote for the party nominee regardless of who it is, but I believe that this is the last time I'll be voting for a Democrat for President. I expect the next President to be a one-termer and that the Democratic Party will go down with him or her.

      The next Democratic President is going to have a mandate for positive change, and  it simply is not possible to govern as a "centrist" and produce the kind of change people will expect from Democrats. I see both of the leading candidates as essentially centrist as America defines "centrism"... i.e. "center-right" or just plain "Right" anywhere else.

      I don't expect the Democratic Party to survive being seen to govern for K Street and give us nothing but creative new excuses.

      Oh, and congratulations.

      Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

      by alizard on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 03:40:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  No camp here has clean hands. (27+ / 0-)

    And holding grudges never serves anyone, and indeed it harms the grudge holder more.

    The only good thing Nixon ever said was the following:

    "Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself."

  •  Okay.... (13+ / 0-)

    How about I just say I really liked the first half or so of your diary.

    Then something went terribly, terribly wrong.

  •  Welcome, and more. (8+ / 0-)

    I hope that I am not among the Obama supporters of whom you have such low opinion, but if I have offended you in any way I apologize. I DO care about what you have to say, despite your lack of illusions, and welcome to the Obama camp. Your reasoning as explained above is very sound.

    ~Travis

  •  the willing ones will get victory ice cream cake. (4+ / 0-)

    ...the unwilling ones, such as yourself, will get victory nilla wafers (stale). just so you can't say i didn't warn you.

    it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses | Buy M.I.A.'s Kala! (No, really. Please!)

    by Addison on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 05:38:30 PM PDT

  •  Good luck, phenry. If Obama wins, I'll (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    phenry, eleanora, zbctj52, flagpole, PamelaD

    be there with you, with the same sentiment you have expressed in this diary. But until then, my sig line says it all....

    "Turning the page..."

    by Rumarhazzit on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 05:39:02 PM PDT

  •  Obama-Odinga....google it..... (0+ / 0-)

    waiting in the wings....

    •  I did..... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      phenry

      I was enticed by your cryptic message...and then saddened by the violence in Kenya...and then realized you thought somehow the rw conspiracy theories were important...and then I was sad for you.....

      "There's a hell of a lot fewer Republicans in Sarpy County than there were yesterday," Summers said.

      by funemployed on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 07:08:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  some editing and perspective... (6+ / 0-)

    Among the ranks of the Edwards supporters here are some who are absolutely the worst, the worst, people I have ever encountered on the left side of the aisle in more than twenty years of being interested and involved with politics. I don't choose my words lightly, and yes, as a matter of fact I do mean to frame it in terms of morals and personal character. And no, frankly, it's not the same for every candidate. The people I'm talking about have violated just about every social norm this site has, repeatedly and maliciously. They display all the hallmarks of a cult, and not a happy-go-lucky cult like the Hare Krishnas, either. No person may criticize John Edwards and escape their wrath. (Just ask Ned Lamont... or John Kerry.) The baseless, carelessly-slung insinuations of corporatismism that were SOP for the Edwards militia for a while toward the end of the year remain an open sore upon this community, which has worked so hard for so long opposing corporate influence in Washington.

    Among the ranks of supporters of every candidate her I've observed some of the finest, most ethical and insightful people I've met in my years in politics, and they reflect well upon each of our excellent candidates.

    Peace...

  •  I don't care (12+ / 0-)

    Glad to have you.   I'm happy anyone supports Obama, no matter what their rationale.  And I only want to remind you, though, of certain now-banned Edwards supporters--anne frank, framecop, pointecoupeedemocrat, and the infamous Thunderhawk13, who once told me (or another female Obama supporter--his syntax was off, so not sure) to go fuck myself or herself with a brick.  I don't hold these Edwards supporters against him, as I don't hold lorelynn against HRC.  Cheers.

    John McCain: Vowing to connect real leaders with real bowels

    by chicago minx on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 05:43:48 PM PDT

  •  I feel ya n/t (0+ / 0-)

    I'd rather be unhappy with President Obama than with President McCain.

    by kestrel9000 on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 05:43:59 PM PDT

  •  I'm waiting for Mr. T's endorsement... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    highacidity, cjallen

    .. before I make an official decision.
    Mr. T

    "There's a kind of freedom in being completely screwed... because you know things can't get any worse. " -- Matthew Broderick, The Freshman

    by friday durdikova on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 05:44:26 PM PDT

  •  Supporters of Obama (4+ / 0-)

    You know what...this may come as a snarky comment, but you know what- if you are going to hold the supporters of a candidate against them, then you are incredibly shallow.

    Sorry for being harsh, but I don't get people like you. I just don't. It is like hating all Americans because you encountered some drunk tourists from PA. Incredible.

  •  Regarding bad behaviour by the Obama camp (5+ / 0-)

    That probably happened because they were in the majority and thus were bullies. If the Clinton camp were in the majority they would like be bullies.

    Also because there are more Obama supporters ( they outnumber Clinton 7:1 in the recent DKos straw polls.) their wrongdoings take up more space.

    It's always the way, the powerful bully the weaker if they can get away with it. That's why I spend half my time disputing troll ratings given to some users and the other half giving troll ratings to people who do things like call Hilary Clinton "the she devil" and call Obama a "whiny spoilt drug addict."

    Cthulhu 08, why vote for a lesser evil? Economic -6.12 Social -7.23

    by Timothy Scriven on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 05:46:13 PM PDT

  •  If you hung out at MyDD instead of here... (6+ / 0-)

    ... you would have written the same things about a subset of Clinton backers that you just wrote about a subset of Obama supporters.

    Just depends on where you are.

    Of course, at MyDD the crowds are immeasurably smaller and dwindling due to the vile nature of the Clinton folks over there.

    Hell, Jerome can even get his online following to pony up ten grand to fund his two campaign reporters.

    It's sad and funny at the same time.

    •  I know this question has been asked (0+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      earwulf

      but what the fcuk happened over there and to him?  I don't go over there enough, but one day it was a friendly suburb and the next day it was HOLY CRAP CLOSE THE WINDOWS! LIONS!

      "No ... human ... would stack books like this."

      by socratic on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 05:59:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'll not go into some of the stuff (0+ / 0-)

      that was said about Obama, including one truly despicable series of uprates that was the cause of any number of commenters losing their ratings abilities.

      •  It's a place where every piece of vile crap (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        pHunbalanced

        ... barfed up by SusanHu and Larry Johnson makes it to the top of the rec list.

        That's why I find it sadly humorous that Jerome can't even get his (ever-shrinking) audience to pony up ten grand to fund his "beat" reporters.

  •  I was undecided until mid-January (6+ / 0-)

    or so, and this:

    And no, frankly, it's not the same for every candidate.

    is fucking absurd.

    Two of the most destructive people I've ever encountered here would be lorelynn and annefrank, neither of whom supported Obama.

    And this:

    They display all the hallmarks of a cult, and not a happy-go-lucky cult like the Hare Krishnas, either.

    is as vile as anything you claim to decry.

    Physician, heal thyself.    

    Any force that tries to make you feel shame for being who you are...is a form of tyranny... And it must be rejected, resisted, and defeated. ~Al Gore

    by Sinister Rae on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 05:52:26 PM PDT

  •  i would just like to say this (9+ / 0-)

    since you were a former Edwards supporter, and I made my decision and started campaigning belatedly:

    even while I was uncommitted and even slightly leaning Edwards, I found the behavior of a lot of the Edwards partisans on this site condescending, ungracious, and completely distasteful.

    All camps have their flaws--the Clinton camp is just much smaller here on DKos, so it's not as vocal or noticeable.

    oops. I hope the gate wasn't too expensive.

    My blog. Come visit.

    by hekebolos on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 05:52:33 PM PDT

  •  Sorry you've had a bad experience... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    DrMicro, allie123

    But it's rather a wide distribution for such a supposedly targeted rant.

  •  Fuck the netroots ... (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    phenry, flagpole, JedReport, PamelaD

    To put it mildly, they have not been covering themselves with glory this cycle, and after the election the temptation to drift away will be strong.

    Dropping back by here last summer, after deciding I was leaning Hillary, the Free Republic tone I found around here was shocking. It almost instantly turned me into a far fiercer Hillary partisan than I otherwise would have been.

    If Obama wins the nomination I won't hold his supporters' attitude against him. But my respect for the netroots is pretty much gone.

    The best fortress is to be found in the love of the people - Niccolo Machiavelli

    by al Fubar on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 05:59:39 PM PDT

    •  Yes, less democratic participation is in order. (0+ / 0-)

    •  Go spend time at Jerome's place. (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      pletzs

      The co-author of "Crashing the Gate" has set up a "bash Obama/praise Hillary" site. You experience what goes on here. Go experience what goes on over there.

      I'm not holding what SusanHu and Larry Johnson barf up about Obama against Hillary, either.

      But why are you surprised at presidential primary season here on Daily Kos? It was just as bad in `04, except that you supported Clark, right? And there were more of you than there were Clinton supporters this time around. (She is akin to Kerry in that regard.)

      All I get out of your post is whining. But you should know better.

      •  No, not the same thing at all ... (0+ / 0-)

        I remember 2004 well, and true there were a lot more Clarkistas. But only a very few times - like the hapless front pager post on "cats and dogs" - did things go nuclear.

        This time it has been consistently nuclear for months.

        The best fortress is to be found in the love of the people - Niccolo Machiavelli

        by al Fubar on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 06:22:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What?????? (0+ / 0-)

          But only a very few times - like the hapless front pager post on "cats and dogs" - did things go nuclear.

          You gotta' be kidding me. You need to go pay a visit to Armando at TalkLeft.

          This place was a mess, even messier than this go `round because this time, the candidates with the two biggest followings here -- Edwards and Obama -- for the most part respected each other. Clinton is playing the Kerry role. Hardly anyone who was a Kerry backer posted here because they would get pounded, just like Clinton backers have this season.

          The battles between Dean supporters and Clark supporters were legend.

          I think you're just more sensitive this time because you're backing the establishment candidate. By definition, establishment candidates are hated by a large portion of the netroots in primaries. Kerry was. So is Clinton.

          •  My recollection ... (0+ / 0-)

            At least pre Iowa, was that Kerry was more scoffed at than detested. I remember joking about the dirt going over Kerry's grave just days before Iowa.

            One person here I had to admire for their courage, if not their candidate choice, was GOvote (sp?) - the sole visible Lieberman supporter around DKos. God knows how they took the abuse, with no one to have their back.

            The best fortress is to be found in the love of the people - Niccolo Machiavelli

            by al Fubar on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 06:44:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yes, I believe GOVote finally got bounced. (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              al Fubar

              The lone Lieberman supporter. (Actually there was one more, a young fellow from Kentucky, who turned out to be quite a nice person.)

            •  And Kerry was only scoffed at because he had... (0+ / 0-)

              ... all but disappeared in the polls. This time, Clinton had a huge lead. We were told, over and over, that she was inevitable.

              There is nothing a committed netrooter loves more than watching an establishment candidate and overwhelming favorite get knocked down to size.

  •  With all due respect, (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    pHunbalanced, itskevin, jre2k8, DrMicro

    I've had some of my worst interactions ever here on Kos with Edwards supporters.  I'm not proud.

    So forgive, forget, move on.  We've got things to do, a country to fix.

    I'm game.

  •  Hope I am not (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    PamelaD

    on your grudge list.. do not think I have ever gotten personal with supporters or candidates.

    Just glad that you have made your decision for Obama. He needs every vote he can get to beat Hillary, who is very formidable.

  •  eh... (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    latts, pHunbalanced, jre2k8

    I avoided the Obama v. Edward wars because they seemed pretty pointless, and in light of what has since happened, doubly so. I support Obama, but when certain Obama supporters fell over themselves fawning over Edward once he was no longer a threat it was...it was very weird.

    I guess I was always inclined to lean toward Obama, but what sort of pushed me over the edge in my feelings about the people on this site was the time when I was musing about why Hillary was running for president and wanting to know more about that and having some HRC supporter, all shocked and appalled, say that was a horribly sexist thing to say. So, you know, I don't hold much of a grudge toward the pro-Edwards people because I never tangled with them, but I was both startled and mortally offended to have some stranger pronounce me a sexist. My relations with HRC supporters here has pretty much gone downhill since then. My issues with HRC the candidate pretty much stem from what happened before South Carolina, and I don't think I was alone--that reaction wasn't just limited to the networld.

    I know what you mean about the Obama knee-jerkers. It's funny seeing them sometimes misinterpret what other Obama supporters have said and start turning on them. chill, you know?

    But if it's what I know about the people here, they are intense...just have to harness that intensity for good...

    But how's this--if you have a problem with certain Obama supporters--don't take it out on the candidate. Obama seems to be getting support from a WIDE coalition of people and he can't kick people out for being jerks (not that he'd necessarily even know about it). If you've made up your mind, watch with us, worry with us, but don't subject yourself to us unless you really really want to...

    Barack Obama will only become president if enough people pay attention, so pay attention, dammit!

    by JMS on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 07:04:36 PM PDT

  •  Eye of the beholder, etc. (0+ / 0-)

    There are certainly some overly enthusiastic & undisciplined Obama supporters around, but my own choice was at least partly informed by my irritation with Edwards supporters (going back to some who trolled sought out draft-Gore diaries & hectored the participants) & outright distaste for most of HRC's.  Really, when it comes down to it, the candidates are mostly conduits for our priorities and perceptions of where this country needs to go, and every time one of those smaller issues comes to the fore or breaks down, the dynamic changes.  And it's not purely emotional when we-- any of us, regardless of affiliation-- become angry & frustrated with our opponents, because we have already rejected or discarded the framework within which they made their choices, which is not generally an irrational process.  

    Anyway, glad you made a decision, and my own unseemly optimism about Obama notwithstanding, I think you're right about his broader appeal.

    "Conservative principles" are marketing props used by the Conservative Movement to achieve political power, not actual beliefs. -Glenn Greenwald

    by latts on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 08:13:47 PM PDT

  •  I'm sick of diaries like this (0+ / 0-)

    No, I'm not an Obama supporter, but was an Edwards supporter. I want to say, get over it.

    "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter, and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." (Abraham Lincoln, 1809-65)

    by Kairos on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 11:56:15 PM PDT

Permalink | 106 comments