Daily Kos

The GOP Swiftboating of Obama has Begun. A Taste of What's To Come

Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 05:38:23 AM PDT

This is rather unorthodox, but I am reposting a diary I wrote and posted yesterday because I think this subject and issue are extremely important. Especially in light of last night's election results.

In 2004, I along with a few others, saw the threat posed by the Swiftboat Liars for Bush well befre even the Kerry campaign did. I still had a blog then, and I sent my readers to the Swiftboat website message boards to fact check and act as a truth squad. Eventually, we were all banned after making ourselves an irritant. I e-mailed people in the Kerry campaign with factual debunkings. I raised the alarm in numerous posts on my blog. But I didn't have enough of a megaphone to get them to pay attention.

Today, I see the strategy the Republicans will take against Barack Obama. They will paint him as a closet leftist. A wolf in sheep's clothing. And they will use anecdotes such as the one described below as a means to undercut Obama's appeal with indepedents and disaffected Republicans. This kind of attack will never make into the traditional media. But it will be circulated and pushed in the conservative media. It already is. We have to counter it. If a rightwing blogger writes about it -- flood his comments sections with rebuttals and defenses of Obama. Write letters and e-mails to newpapers or TV stations that run with the story. Liberal bloggers need to post their own debunking stories and diaries. We have to fight it.

Now, onto the diary from yesterday:

Making the wingnut-o-sphere rounds is a report from the Fox affiliate in Houston depicting a group of obama volunteers with a Che Guevara flag hanging in the office.

You know where this is going, right? The wingnuts will paint Obama's supporters as a bunch of neo-Marxist wackadoos. Actually, what do I mean "will?" They already have! From National Review:

The point is Obama seemed like a guy who seemed particularly moderate, thoughtful, who repudiated the "I Hate Republicans And Everything They Stand For" Howard Dean approach, and who seemed to be keeping a healthy distance from the no-enemies-to-our-left fringe. Seeing him enthusiastically backed by the hooray-for-Marxist-murderers crowd, well, it makes those of us who kind of liked Obama, policy differences aside, wonder if he's just a standard-issue leftist with nicer, deliberately evasive rhetoric.

What does it say that among these Obama volunteers, none of them thought to say, "hey, fellas, you know, this guy ran show trials and executions... Is this really the image of 'change' we want to project to the electorate?"

The Obama campaign says about the flag that:

The office featured in this video is funded by volunteers of the Barack Obama Campaign and is not an official headquarters for his campaign.

Now, whatever you may think about Che Guevara, what kind of a moron doesn't at least take that flag down before letting TV cameras into that office? You know it's got to offend some people. And it forces the Obama campaign to have to either distance themselves from your dumb ass, or go on defense having to explain it.

It may well be that the people in that office put up the flag as an ironic joke about being insurgents or underdogs or even revolutionaries, etc. But that message is too subtle and will be lost on the audience. ESPECIALLY IN HOUSTON!

Use some common sense people. Frankly, I think the Obama people should have the above explanation in a can somewhere ready to produce in the event this things gets blown out of proprtion as this stuff often is.

Especially since Obama is perceived as a more moderate, less divisive politician by even conservatives. This is exactly the kind of thing that could come back to haunt him in a general election campaign. Do not be surrised if this is blasted all over the wingnut-o-sphere and Freeperland.

So, the Obama campaign needs to be prepared to go beyond merely blaming it on some overenthusiastic volunteers. They need to Nip It In The Bud as Deputy Fife would say.

UPDATE: Yup. Its all over the place and is a cause celebre among the usual wingnut suspects.

The Obama campaign needs to nip this in the bud NOW! Or it will gain a pereverse sort of momentum.

ANOTHER UPDATE: This has now spread to talk radio. Reports are that Glenn Beck and Laura Ingraham have already brought this up. Hannity, Limbaugh, Savage and the rest of those assholes will not be far behind. People here and elsewhere who take this lightly, or dismiss it are fooling themselves and doing Barack Obama no good at all.

YET ANOTHER UPDATE: Even Glenn Reynolds is getting in on the act. Although, in his case, it's rather funny considering that his father was an antiwar protester during the early 70's.

Tags: Barack Obama, Che Guevara, Swiftboating, Election, Campaign (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 124 comments

  •  You mght want to spell check (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Mr X, JFinNe, HouTxLib

    I know, since i was also told :-)

  •  I see Che Guevara shirts, hats, etc, everywhere (4+ / 0-)

    Most people who wear his gear don't even know who he is. I wouldn't worry about this too much, as it sounds like somebody is reaching pretty hard to find dirt.

    •  I disagree. (26+ / 0-)

      Little things like this get blown up and become anecdotes and conventional wisdom. See John Edwards and his haircut.

      This type of attack goes right at the heart of Obama's crossover appeal. It needs to be combatted like a flu epidemic.

      •  All this shows me (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        shigeru, Rorgg
        is how desperate the right-wingers are for a plan of attack. I'd be very surprised if this trivial story had any traction in the mainstream. There was a specific reason the media went after John Edwards -- I'm pretty sure that story didn't originate with right-wing mouth-frothers. They were trying to depict Edwards in a certain way in order to detroy him because he was a threat to corporate hegemony. That, along with stories about the size of his house, his hedge fund investments etc, were intended to try to derail his populism. This is just silly.

        We're retiring Steve LaTourette (R-Family Values for You But Not for Me) and sending Judge Bill O'Neill to Congress from Ohio-14: http://www.oneill08.com/

        by anastasia p on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:38:15 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It doesn't need to make the MSM (5+ / 0-)

          It just needs to be circulated in the Republican media (you know Fox News will run with it) in order to undercut Obama's support among Republicans.

          •  And Florida cubans are already pissed! (0+ / 0-)

            This will hurt him in Florida people!

            Change is a foreign policy that doesn't begin and end with a war that should've never been authorized and never been waged. Obama 6/3/08

            by Lipstick Liberal on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 08:12:02 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  It's even worse than you think! (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Lipstick Liberal, shigeru

              It now turn out that right-wing bloggers have exposed the rogue volunteer. Read this report and weep.

              It really sucks, but her email is:

              maria@houstonforobama.com

              which looks sorta official. She is Obama's Houston Precinct Captain. From the look of things, she's a complete fruitbat. Ugh, this looks so bad that you don't even have to be very creative to turn this into an opportunity for swiftboating. I can imagine that she's insane enough to yell about how Barack betrayed her (and all Latinos) if somebody from the campain tries to exert their influence to replace her.

              They can't fire her; she's not on their payroll. They can only hope that the other volunteers in Houston will get her to apologize and step aside. Gah, how did they let this happen?

    •  You are WRONG, my friend.... (13+ / 0-)

      (like that?)

      Seriously, though...  this is not what your Republican crossover voters want to find out about Obama.  This is not what the Wall St. hedge fund managers who went to grad school with Obama at Harvard want to read about to feel at home in Team Obama.

      It was seriously DUMB of the Houston folks to do that.  So dumb, in fact, that it makes me wonder about "dirty tricks" type operations and the possibility of agents provocateur in our midst.

    •  That's the Problem! (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Magenta, G2geek, Miles in WesternWA

      Most people who wear his gear don't even know who he is.

      If they knew who he was and what he represents to many people, they might show better judgement.

      This is CLASS WAR, and the other side is winning.

      by Mr X on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 05:53:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I know nothing about it, either (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      RFK Lives, G2geek, shigeru

      I wouldn't understand the significance unless I were told about it, and I suspect, outside the wingnutosphere, most people wouldn't either.

      They'd have their work cut out for them making a bigger deal out of this than they already have.

      At the same time, it is worthwhile to remember that Obama is no longer an underdog, and what his supporters do can reflect upon him in larger venues than the blogosphere.

    •  how to deal with this! (8+ / 0-)

      Say this:

      "Wal-Mart sells a bunch of T-shirts and other stuff with that picture of Che on it, and Wal-Mart is hardly a commie outfit, so stuff it!"

      Note: Yes, say "commie."  

      And say it dismissively, as in "oh come on, what BS."

      ---

      Meanwhile, note to fellow Obama supporters: if you want him to win, cut the crap.  If you're supporting a candidate, you promote the candidate's message, not "your message."  There is exactly zero room for egoizing, and that includes ideological egoizing and "looking cool" and various forms of posturing.  Everything you do will be under the Republican microscope, so set an example and do not let the Rs make an example out of you!

      •  Last night on MSNBC, Pat "Pitchfork" (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        G2geek, Miles in WesternWA

        Buchanan dismissed the voters of Northern Virginia as "commies, Marxists" which was met with dirisive laughter from the other panelists.

        According to Pat, the Marxists have marched out of their communes in Berkeley, Cambridge and the East Village to infiltrate Fairfax County, Poughkeepsie and Peoria.

        As the Republican Party continues its incredible shrinking party trick, I suspect we will hear more of how Americans who don't agree with them are all a bunch of pinko commies. The problem is they can't throw that charge around at 70% of the electorate without being laughed off the stage.

        John McCain: America Can't Afford Healthy Children

        by Chrispy67 on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:36:25 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Let's collect links to corporate images with Che. (0+ / 0-)

        I know for a fact that Starbucks had Che on their coffee cups during a promotion, but I think a large collection of similar examples would be useful to make the following point:

        Young people who didn't live through the 60's and 70's could easily be forgiven for thinking that the Che image represents something positive, like civil rights activism on behalf of the Hispanic community. Of course it's wrong to think of Guevara as a positive role model. It's easier to forgive a stupid, naive volunteer for putting up his image when you realize that many American corporations make money from exactly the same sin.

        •  Starbucks use of Che won't help much. (0+ / 0-)

          It erinforces the meme.

          Now, the fact taht Wal-Mart supposedly sells Che t-shirts woud be very helpful.

          •  Yeah, but Starbucks aren't exactly terrorists (0+ / 0-)

            I take your point that swing voters aren't likely to all agree that if Starbucks does it, it must be innocent. I would love to find evidence that Wal Mart had Che t-shirts. But my point is (and the Starbucks Che campaign addresses this point) is that a random Obama volunteer can more easily be forgiven for not knowing more about the real Che and his brutality, since that image is regularly misrepresented by brutally capitalistic institutions as being something we should feel good about.

            See this article for an example. A well-meaning author in the New Statesman says:

            An image like this is about a sign: it's a shorthand. This particular one now stands for opposition to the establishment, freedom and revolution. My work is based on the thesis that we work in stereotypes, or sign language.

            It seems very naive in this context, but that's just the point: The image has become a symbolic stereotype totally detatched from the actual Ernesto Guevara. People, especially young people, have an absurdly skewed idea of what Che was really about.

    •  In the words of John Lennon (4+ / 0-)

      "if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao.. you ain't gonna make it with anyone, anyhow...."

    •  It's a style thing. It's everywhere, (0+ / 0-)

      and if Obama has the sense to brush it off as a bunch of youngsters who put up a poster they thought was stylish, and didn't know any better, this one will disappear. (Too bad for Korda, who photographed that famous image, if he does: Obama's scorn for it would kill its leftist cachet immediately. Korda's estate will say goodbye to royalties.)

      But it's true: he's got to do so quickly, before it becomes a meme.

      •  I doubt it will lose cachet (0+ / 0-)

        Obama isn't THAT far left.  The appeal of Che is that it allows would-be radicals to distance themselves from center left Democrats.  However popular Obama becomes, he will never be seen as a true revolutionary.

        •  Obama a revolutionary? Of course not... (0+ / 0-)

          I'm just saying that all the folks who buy Che posters because it's a cool image & gives them leftist cred (probably 90% of Che image customers) will suddenly be uncool.

          No. I'm sure the 10% who are genuinely would-be radicals won't give up their Che posters.

          Obama a revolutionary? I'll chuckle about that one all day.

    •  That' s not swift-boating (0+ / 0-)

      That's just run-of-the-mill liberal-baiting. And it doesn't work anymore. We in Ohio saw how well the "Sherrod Brown is the most liberal Ohio congressman" worked (apart from the fact that Dennis Kucinich is probably furious because he proudly wants that title!). It didn't. Republican ex-Senator Mikey DeWhiny was considered a shoo-in for re-election being an incumbent with way more money and a rep for being a "moderate."

      Plus this stuff could have been lifted right from one of the Alan Keyes for Senate newsletters I've still got saved here in my computer, only they were even nuttier.

      Just saying someone is "far-left radical" is empty words. I'd actually be more worried about those stupid "madrasa" emails.

      We're retiring Steve LaTourette (R-Family Values for You But Not for Me) and sending Judge Bill O'Neill to Congress from Ohio-14: http://www.oneill08.com/

      by anastasia p on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:35:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  In my opinion.... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    bustacap, ms scarlett leadpipe

    they're flailing, Hesiod.

    They've got the "closet Muslim" thing going, too -- and I have no doubt that someone will come forward after the Democratic Convention claiming he knew Obama "way back when" and saying Obama loved Islam, talked about destroying America, etc.

    It all depends upon whether and how aggressively Obama responds.  That was Kerry's fatal mistake.  I hope that's a lesson from which they've learned.  So far, I have to say he's shown himself willing and able to defend himself.

    And frankly, I don't know WHAT could save McCain in the general.  The guy just doesn't have what it takes.

    •  This is all. (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      bustacap, G2geek, pvlb

      It all depends upon whether and how aggressively Obama responds.  

      I think that Novak bullshit and Hillary's ad in SC show he can retaliate scathingly.

      A Tiger does not always show his Tigritude -- African Proverb

      by The British Observer on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 05:55:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Interesting variation on the Muslim bit: (4+ / 0-)

      On Monday, my local morning call-in show (Spud on WWL) had two callers saying Obama had taken his oath of office with his hand on the Koran.

      I called in to tell listeners that the earlier callers had obviously confused Sen. Obabma with Kieth Ellison, who is a Muslim and did use the Koran in his swearing ceremony, and reminded people that if they have internet access to get "Obabma's a Mooslum!" emails, they could also check their facts with this nifty site called "Google". . .

      Watch out for this new twist.

      As for the Che poster, Obama's folks are free to use mine.  Might soften the image a little:

    •  and what to do about that: (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      bustacap, LordMike

      When you encounter the "closet Muslim" meme, the way to respond is:

      (caution, bad word below, on purpose)

      "Oh come on.  I know what you're really thinking.  You want to call him a nigger, don't you?"

      This will immediately trigger the "Oh no, I'm not a racist!" defense.  At that point you can say,  "OK, then if you're not a racist, stop promoting that racist lie!"  

      •  Maybe; maybe not. (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        bustacap, G2geek

        This might work or it might not.

        Depends on how dumb the wingnut you're talking to is.  The smarter ones will know that Muslim = non-racial identity, and they'll counter you quickly.

        But the less-informed ones might indeed shut up.

        •  ahh but either way... (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          bustacap, Miles in WesternWA

          ...you still have an arguable point with the righties.  

          If a smart wingnut says "race has nothing to do with religion," then you have an opening to debate and discuss as per someone else here who pointed out that it was someone in Congress who took their oath on the Koran.  

          The key here is to use a nastyword as a means of throwing someone off balance just a bit and getting them to react.  

          See, this is also why people should conserve cusswords.  Cusswords need to be saved up for the times when you really need them in order to make a point with added emotional emphasis.   Spreading them around casually only leads to them losing their oomph, like a jar of spice that's been left open so long it's gone flat.  

          •  Those are good points. (0+ / 0-)

            But I remain skeptical.

            Just as likely would be that you get those Glenn Beck-type responses that wail: "See!??  Why do you liberals ALWAYS try to pull the race card???"

            It's way too messy and unpredictable, in my opinion.

            •  and that's a good point too.... (0+ / 0-)

              "always trying to play the race card..."

              To which I would respond, "Hardly, bigotry is bigotry, it only looks more ugly when it's about the color of someone's skin, but it's every bit as ugly when it's spreading lies about the color of their soul."

      •  I actually think (0+ / 0-)

        there are places in this country where calling someone a Muslim is closer to the root of right-wing fear than racism is, thanks to 7 years of virulent and imprecise anti-Muslim rhetoric flying from the right.

        The LH, who listens to right-wing radio so I don't have to, tells me that almost every day, Jay Sekulow takes at least one call claiming that Obama is a Muslim, giving Sekulow the opportunity to self-righteously correct the caller and imply that the falsehood is coming from either the Clinton campaign or unspecified enemies on Obama's left.

        In the meantime, it's regularly getting airtime, and that's the real purpose of this exercise.

        The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

        by sidnora on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 07:23:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  If everyone thinks that the Clinton-Obama fight (6+ / 0-)

    is getting nasty, wait until the Obama-McCain showdown. We ain't seen nothing yet.

    When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.

    by rmonroe on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 05:45:06 AM PDT

  •  I've noticed that Barack's (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    American Zapatista, G2geek

    positivity, in addition to not allowing himself to be attacked without a response, is a very powerful attractive force.

    It was so refreshing to listen to him disavow the negative attack option with Hillary on the basis of both personal distaste and political effects.  (On 60 Minutes this Sunday.)

    _______________________________
    Healing the universe is an inside job.

    by spotDawa on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 05:49:21 AM PDT

    •  My point being that (3+ / 0-)

      many negative attacks against him simply won't stick against this kind of personality.

      _______________________________
      Healing the universe is an inside job.

      by spotDawa on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 05:51:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  This wasn't an attack on Obama though. (7+ / 0-)

        It's an attack on his SUPPORTERS. That's why it is so insidious. It implies that Obama's supporters are all secretly plotting "la revolucion." That Obama is hiding something from people. That even if Obama himself might be a pleasant and moderate guy, his wacko supporters will take over and screw you.

        •  Hm, there might be some merit to that (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Magenta, G2geek

          argument.  I tend to be wary of anybody's wacko supporters.  /snark

          No doubt, the slime machine is hard to fight.  The old saw about a lie going round the world while the truth is still pulling its boots on.  I guess we oughta be sleeping with our boots on already then.

          _______________________________
          Healing the universe is an inside job.

          by spotDawa on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:01:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  OK, you think McCain won't have wacko supporters? (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          spookthesunset
          Give it a few weeks. Racists and haters of all stripes are going to be pouring out of the corners of the McCain campaign. It amazes me when people think we'll make every mistake in the world but they're bulletproof.

          We're retiring Steve LaTourette (R-Family Values for You But Not for Me) and sending Judge Bill O'Neill to Congress from Ohio-14: http://www.oneill08.com/

          by anastasia p on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:41:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The problem is that Obama is a newbie. (2+ / 0-)

            McCain has a 25 year public service track record. The media will dismiss wacko McCain supporters and not tar McCain with taht brush.

            McCain had some racist dude advising his campaign in 2000! Nobody cared!

            Obama, on the other hand, doesn't have a 25 year track record to fall back on. The media won't dismiss this stuff because it can't. It doesn't know him well enough.

            To a certain extent, Hillary is right about that. That's why Obama, especially, has to nip this shit in the bud rather than let it fester.

        •  this is a reply to a day old post (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Hesiod

          But could the best way to attack Obama be to attack his supporters?  It is kind of the FUD attack used in technical realms; if the supporters are nuts, what does it say about the candidate?

          Interesting... hmmmm....

    •  Obama can frame the attacks as the "old politics" (12+ / 0-)

      more of the same stupid wars, the same special interest controlling government, the same politics of hate and division..

      Repubs should get the memo from South Carolina..The  people are sick of trash talk and attacking the opponent with ugly garbage will backfire.

      Swiftboats have become obsolete with a skilled orator who can return them to their sender.

      In a democracy, the most important office is the office of citizen.- Louis Brandeis

      by crystal eyes on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 05:58:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And he'll be exactly right. (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        G2geek, crystal eyes, Rorgg

        Again.  You are correct!  Thanks crystal eyes.

        _______________________________
        Healing the universe is an inside job.

        by spotDawa on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:02:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I like this angle.... (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        G2geek, crystal eyes, Rorgg

        This is a good counterresponse...
        Just as long as we don't have continued "Guevara episodes."  And we WILL if we've been infiltrated by Rove agents.

        Please, no tin-foil jokes.  This is seriously how you undermine and wreck an opponent who appears otherwise invincible.  You smuggle in double-agents and Trojan horses.

      •  Huge difference between Kerry, Gore and Obama (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        howd, G2geek, spotDawa

        Obama has publicly revealed many times, that he has a keen sense of humor, whereas Gore and Kerry kept theirs bottled up.  A little humor followed by a serious message goes a long way to point out how ridiculous swift boat remarks are when made.

        It seems to me that a lot of 'young people' see Che Guevara as a modern day Robinhood and don't really know anything about him, except that he took a great picture.

        "Man's life's a vapor Full of woe. He cuts a caper, Down he goes. Down de down de down he goes.

        by JFinNe on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:12:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  "They are trying to boil the hope out of me." (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          spotDawa, JFinNe

          "They say I am a hopemonger and I need twenty more years in Washington before I'll be ready."  

          Obama is not just running against Republicans. He's running against the establishment's cozy ties to special interests.

          In a democracy, the most important office is the office of citizen.- Louis Brandeis

          by crystal eyes on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:44:04 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Humor (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          JFinNe, spookthesunset

          I agree that humor is the best way to counter the swift boat attacks.  It allows you to respond to the attack aggressively without going on the defensive.  People will listen to the humor response, laugh along with Obama and then begin to laugh at the swiftboaters.  More Dems need to hone up on their humor skills.

          John McCain: GIs don't need no stinkin' college.

          by howd on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 07:24:14 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Just remember (9+ / 0-)

    These assholes have amassed over 200 million dollars to impugn the integrity of our nominee. There is nothing that they won't stoop too, no lie too slanderous, no distortion to shameful.

    There has to be an aggressive response from the campaign on this Che thing, because the GOP loves to take stupid shit like Kerry's cheesesteak or Gore's sigh and turn it into a major issue.

    Talk radio and FOX news will be on 24/7 railing against our candidate.

    If the above doesn't inspire you to take nothing for granted and work your ass off, nothing will.

  •  Just Focus on the ISSUES (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    G2geek

    IMHO, that's all that Obama needs to do. Remind Americans what this election is about. It's about the issues, it's about good governance. It is EMPHATICALLY not about trivial distractions like some fucking kid's poster on some fucking wall.

    If, on the other hand, he rises to their bait, then he is playing on their field, by their rules. I hope he knows better than that.

    I also hope the American people know better than that. People get the government they elect. If the people allow their decision to be swayed by some fucking triviality like this (and believe me, as a swiftboating technique, it doesn't get any cheaper or cheesier than this) - then I must say they really don't deserve much better.

    Proud member of the Coalition of the Insignificant.

    by justforkix on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 05:53:44 AM PDT

    •  WE have to fight this for Obama. (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Jonathan, hubcap, bustacap, Mr X

      That's part of the intention of this post. WE have to do it, because we can't let Obama get sucked into it directly.

    •  Think tactics not lofty rhetoric (5+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Magenta, IseFire, hubcap, Glinda, bustacap

      I also hope the American people know better than that. People get the government they elect. If the people allow their decision to be swayed by some fucking triviality like this (and believe me, as a swiftboating technique, it doesn't get any cheaper or cheesier than this) - then I must say they really don't deserve much better.

      This attitude did not help Kerry in 2004, did it?

      •  i take your point (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        G2geek

        but it still mystifies me as to how or why they would allow themselves to be conned by this rubbish when the economy is on its knees, people's houses are getting foreclosed, and there's an endless war they've poured billions of their tax dollars into.. I mean what ELSE do they need to wake up!?

        Proud member of the Coalition of the Insignificant.

        by justforkix on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 05:58:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  25% unemployment rate, maybe? (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          bustacap, G2geek, Mr X

          That's what it took during FDR's time.  We ain't there by a long shot.

          •  You know ... (3+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            bustacap, G2geek, Miles in WesternWA

            there are days I get discouraged enough to think we're going to have to get there again before people will back actual change.

            Wasn't it Harry Truman who said something about Democrats are so good for people's pocketbooks that it makes them into Republicans? We're a damned spoiled society, and people don't want to see that we're teetering on the edge of disaster in many, many areas.

            •  You know right back (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              bustacap
              I'm tired of this despair and defeatism. WE ARE THERE. For god's sake, have you looked at the turnouts? Did you see all the people who came out yesterday despite the weather? Did you see the margin by which Donna Edwards defeated Al Wynn? People are backing change under your very drooping nose! Even as people are going out in record numbers and voting in democratic primaries while Republican turnout is anemic everywhere, I hear people convinced we won't win, that McCain has been passed the magic amulet and that Americans are so stupid, lazy, apathic and uninformed that they will "never" get it. Please.

              We're retiring Steve LaTourette (R-Family Values for You But Not for Me) and sending Judge Bill O'Neill to Congress from Ohio-14: http://www.oneill08.com/

              by anastasia p on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:44:28 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  You Miss the Point (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      bustacap, G2geek, Miles in WesternWA

      Obama's supporters shouldn't be supplying any amunition to the other side. It's bad enough that some of the opposition will make shit up.

      This is from National Review! WFB and company are not a bunch of stupid asshats. We need to avoid helping them make their points.

      This is CLASS WAR, and the other side is winning.

      by Mr X on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:00:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  No way (0+ / 0-)

      You can't let a smear go unanswered - that's what John Kerry did and it killed them.  Now you don't have to blast Che in the response nor disassociate from the volunteer, but you can turn the tails on the Republicans by saying look - it's a free country, I don't agree with that person but it shows how weak the Republican lines of defense are when they are grasping for straws about how some volunteer in some precinct feels and trying to attach that to the campaign.

      If you ignore it, then it festers.  If you take it head-on you can get rid of it.

      -Fred

      Democrats *do* have a plan for Social Security - it's called Social Security. -- Ed Schultz

      by FredFred on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 07:37:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  You are absolutely correct (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    G2geek, Miles in WesternWA

    That the photo was ever taken speaks volumes about the amateurishness of that office. They should be closed down and a new office with new staff should be opened with proud pictures of Lincoln and FDR.

    John McCain is so (Ned) Divine!!

    by Glinda on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 05:57:22 AM PDT

  •  Attacking someone's supporters (8+ / 0-)

    almost never manages to stick to the actual candidate unless the candidate is standing right there next to the Che flag, there's not much of a story here...what's next, "Obama Girl" goes topless for Playboy and Barack is painted as a swinger? Barack has an easy answer, "I take responsibility for my actions, my votes and my campaign -- I don't agree with their beliefs/actions, but this is America and I don't tell other people what they can and can't think/do within legal bounds." Case closed.

    You can't shoot somebody down with blanks.

    --------
    Please don't bite the heads off the chocolate Elvises.

    by PBJ Diddy on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 05:58:44 AM PDT

    •  Obama is counting on crossover appeal. (6+ / 0-)

      This is the same kind of tactic that marginalized all those antiwar protests. ANSWER was full of leftists and marxists, and unreconstructed hippies. Therefore, EVERYONE WGO MARCHED in the peace rallies must be the same.

      This kind of thing has the potential to catch on like wildfire, and the evidence suggests it already is.

      I can't tell you how frustrating it is to watch people just slough this off and ignore it like it doesn't matter. I feel like it's 2004 all over again.

      •  I understand your frustration, but.... (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        LordMike, spookthesunset

        we, the little people, aren't in a position to speak authoritatively about it.  

        It really needs to be addressed from inside the Obama campaign - or by people in close coordination with them.  And if they're not bright enough to stamp it out seriously and perhaps point out the historical parallels of equally nasty people like David Duke and Trent Lott in the GOP, well... Clinton's right in describing our team as naive and inexperienced.

      •  I think Obama's biggest problem (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        G2geek, anastasia p

        is all the hand-wringing democrats are prone to. If a republican waves the confederate flag, the candidates just kind of shrug and humph and talk about how unfortunate it is that people's feelings got hurt, "...but we shouldn't tell other people how to identify with their heritage, yadda, yadda, yadda...", when Ann Coulter suggests BOMBING the NYTimes, or Bill O says it's o.k. for terrorists to BOMB San Francisco, the right-wingers roll their eyes and say, "get a life".

        But some lefty-nutjob puts a flag of some guy from 1000 years ago who 90% of Americans think is a fashion designer or a musician and we freak out and jump willingly off a cliff.

        You're going to have to play this hand without me, I am going to vomit pansies if I have to listen to any more of this.

        --------
        Please don't bite the heads off the chocolate Elvises.

        by PBJ Diddy on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:23:58 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You are my hero, PBJ Diddy (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          spookthesunset
          Because you are 110% right, and pretty much echoed what I just posted in here. I too am totally sick of Democrats and progressives who agonize over little things like this, convinced that Democrats must NEVER EVER do anything that could be used by the right in any manner, without realizing that if you don't give them ammo they just MAKE SHIT UP.

          You cannot fix this by apologizing, groveling, throwing kids out of your campaign, promising never ever to do it again etc. That's how they have kept us weak and on the defensive. How many times has the right-wing chorus demanded an apology for something for which no apology was due, like when Kerry said if you waste your education like Bush, you get us stuck in Iraq, and the right excoriated him over it? Meanwhile, Republicans defend the confederate flag, tell a senator to "go fuck yourself" and engage in all kinds of indefensible behavior and their only response is a swaggering "That felt good and it was long overdue" (what Cheney said after telling Sen. Leahy to go fuck himself.)

          You cannot win by apologizing and promising to be good. Here's what Obama needs to do: absolutely nothing but what he is doing now -- talking about changing this country for the better.

          We're retiring Steve LaTourette (R-Family Values for You But Not for Me) and sending Judge Bill O'Neill to Congress from Ohio-14: http://www.oneill08.com/

          by anastasia p on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:50:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Wildfire nothing (0+ / 0-)

        The only people trumpeting this think that every Democratic voter has an altar to Che in their bedroom anyway. If you don't have preconceived notions to hang the story on, there is no story.

    •  These weren't "supporters" this was a volunteer (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Hesiod, G2geek, Miles in WesternWA, lump1

      office even if it is independent of the campaign as I just discovered by listening to the Houston Fox report.

      Maria Isabel is a flake and should be told to "cease and desist" claiming to run a volunteer office. Texas is too huge to have this stupidity out there.

      John McCain is so (Ned) Divine!!

      by Glinda on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:09:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You're right. What an embarrassment! (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Hesiod

        Wow, our volunteer effort here in Syracuse NY was run with incredible competence, energy and effectiveness. Our volunteer leader was awesome, mature and did everything with a consensus from the whole group. I sort of assumed that others went more or less the same way.

        But when I see this I realize that other precints have it a whole lot harder. This is the ugly side of grassroots organizing: You'll always find someone like this. Of course, this happens to Republicans all the time, but this guilt-by-association thing doesn't stick to them. If they try to make this stick to Obama, it might. It goes along with the whole "Obama is a blank slate" meme that Hillary and McCain are singing in unison. First they try to make us think that we don't really know the guy, and later, they'll tell us "what he's REALLY like." This is the first lesson in swiftboating 101. Luckily, there is no real connection between this woman and Obama. They're in a picture together, she's obviously infatuated with him, and she's obviously batty as all hell.

        However, the media, wingnut blogs and casual voters are not always good at making distinctions, which is why guilt-by-association smears sometimes work.

    •  It stuck to Hillary (0+ / 0-)

      big time.Welcome to front runner status,guys.

  •  This diary's going down the tubes again. (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Magenta, Glinda, G2geek, mariachi mama

    People just don't want to hear about it, I guess. I'm not the Cassandra of the blogosphere for nothing.

  •  Che Guevara is needed again (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    JFinNe

    At least the revolutionary aspects if him.

    We said we want change, and they gave us a handful.

    by MouseOfSuburbia on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:14:33 AM PDT

  •  This is a good test for Obama... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Magenta, G2geek

    ...it needs to be addressed now, and nipped in the bud...

    Yes, it's everywhere... every wingnut in the world is spreading this one around...

    I'm glad it's happening now, during the primaries, so we can see how he handles it...

    How do we work on this?  Get this on the rec list ASAP!

    But, don't panic...  We'll handle it!

    Thanks,

    Mike

    The United States of America--the only country in the world where being educated and cultured actually *lowers* your social and political standing.

    by LordMike on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:15:13 AM PDT

  •  Neo-socialism (0+ / 0-)

    Somebody didn't get the memo on how to recycle socialist arguments (as with the global substitution of "corporatist" for "capitalist" in 21st-century progressive rhetoric). Certainly, modern electoral etiquette counts the flying of Che flags as a faux pas.

    But as they say, this is just some volunteers, which seems like a very unproductive area to "swiftboat." If anything, it could help his cred on the unreconstructed left--who cares if the National Review is upset?

  •  Recc'd for you (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Hesiod, G2geek, JFinNe

    ... because I think we need to make sure we are prepared for anything.

    I went to Obama's website and printed out the 62 page position paper. I used sticky tabs to mark each section, and have read it all. I'm ready to talk about issues, policies, platforms, HOPES and most of all IDEAS.

    I'm also ready to defend - in the most calm, polite, but FIRM manner - against the attacks I am certain will come.

    But, Obama's campaign needs to get the word out to everyone that they will be under the microscope, and that everyone needs to be an ambassador for his campaign. He can't be everywhere, so his staffers need to set the tone.

    I don't want him to waste precious time or energy rebutting this kind of crap from the right-wingers when it is so easy to avoid some of the missteps.

    And I say this as someone who used to have a Che poster in my living room... forty years ago, when I was a lot more idealistic than I am now.

    "What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? T Jefferson

    by TheCorkBoard on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:17:41 AM PDT

  •  Simple Answer (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    bustacap, G2geek

    George W. Bush caved in and surrendered in 2003 to Osama bin Laden. Bin Laden's key demand was the removal of US forces from Saudia Arabia.

    In 2003, Donald Rumsfeld, a serial draft dodger VP and an AWOL drunk, responded "Yes, sir, Mr. bin Laden, Sir.  Please don't attack us anymore. Please sir"

    This was the first US surrender since Corregidor. And the US reclaimed Corregdior within the next two years.

    The GOP has been and continues to be the party of appeasment and surrender.

    Jimmy Carter sent the Delta Force to Iran. Ronald Reagan sent Ollie North with a plane load of missles and and cake.

    GOP mouthpieces such as the Wall Street Journal editorially cheered the rise of the Taliban in Afghanistan.

    In 1944, Gen. McCauliffe responded to German demands for surrender with 'NUTS'. In 2003, George W. Bush responded with, 'Yes, sir'

    In 1813, Captain Lawrence mouthed the famed words, "Don't Give up the Ship!" outside Boston Harbor. In 2003, George W. Bush responded with, "Yes, Sir".

    One can only be grateful that the AWOL drunk and the serial draft dodger were not at Ft. McHenry in 1814. Or the words to our national anthem would now read "and our flag was NOT there" (actually our national anthem would be God Save the Queen).

    We can surely hazard a guess as to which candidate Gen. McCauliffe, Capt. Lawrence, and Francis Scott Key would favor.

  •  Ignore non-stories (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Ignacio Magaloni

    The Swift Boat Vets were a legitimate story and not to be ignored. But this is a non-story, as if an Obama supporter was interviewed wearing a Che t-shirt. To pay attention is only to give it credibility. Let the wingnuts shriek all they want, nobody who counts is paying attention to this one.

    •  Here's the problem with your point, Niel: (6+ / 0-)

      The Swift Boat Vets were a legitimate story and not to be ignored. But this is a non-story, as if an Obama supporter was interviewed wearing a Che t-shirt. To pay attention is only to give it credibility. Let the wingnuts shriek all they want, nobody who counts is paying attention to this one.

      We all know that the Swiftboat Liars were a big problem -- NOW.

      But, some of us knew they would be a huge problem for Kerry long ebfore the rest of us. And that includes the Kerry campaign itself.

      The arguments I am hearing about this Che thing are exactkly the same ones I heard back then about the Swift Boat assholes.

      Even the smallest, seemingly insignificant stupid things may get blown up and altered. For example, the meme is now spreading that this was not a volunteer office, but Obama's actual opfficial Houston HQ!

      And they are comparing this episode to Obama saying he doesn't need to wear a flag pin to demonstrate his patriotism. But, apparently,. "he has no problem with a Che flag in his campaign office!"

      See how this shit gets toxic real fast? Dismissing it is exactly the wrong thing to do.

      •  The Swift Boat Vets had millions of bucks (0+ / 0-)

        They inserted themselves into the discourse. This, on the other hand, is a blogswarm over something seen in the background of a local news segment, led by the same bunch of feckless losers who, as the Republican primaries have recently shown, don't even speak for a significant segment of their own party.

        Don't expect any Republican with a clue to push this one. The last thing they want is for the media to have a reason to give more exposure to their activists' own merchandise of questionable taste.

        •  Don't bet on that. (0+ / 0-)

          Things have a tendency to take on a life of their own.

          •  This story (0+ / 0-)

            Has already shown up on the OT thread at a non political hobby board I frequent.  Of course, I attmepted to debunk it, but people can be pretty dense.

            •  The problem is, how do you debunk it? (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              lump1

              Your only angle, at this point, is to say that the office was not an official Obama campaign office and they were all volunteers.

              Obama also labelled the flag "inappropriate."

              That's it.

              My suggestion is to say that jumping to conclusions about why the flags were there is foolish. It could simply be that a bunchy of college kids thought teh flag looked cool -- and didn't realize the political implications of it. Or, as I said, they were making a ironic statement about the insurgent and revolutioary nature of tehir camapign against Hillary Clinton.

              The fact they didn't take them off the wall for the TV cameras indicates a level of naivete and guilelessness that probably points to a relatively innocent explanation. They are hardly a pack of revolutionaries.

              •  I saw the interview of the lady (0+ / 0-)

                that supposedly put it up, she's cuban.  she avoided talking about it entirely, seemed kinda frenetic.  so it wasn't kids it was the cuban lady that I believe is in atleast one of those photos.  

            •  what is there to debunk? (0+ / 0-)

              I think the factualness of the story is pretty there.  you mean you just argued its irrelevance?

    •  A thought: if you politely and directly (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      lump1

      post ON THE RIGHT-WING blogs or other sources of disinformation something like the following, you will limit the attention TO WHERE THE STORY ALREADY RESIDES--hence, you will not add fuel to this fire. You will probably only want to target sites that have few posts so that the statement will dampen speculation; only do this for a few days.
      Think this might be useful?

      Here is a statement from the Obama campaign about those pictures:

      "The office featured in this video is funded by volunteers of the Barack Obama Campaign and is not an official headquarters for his campaign".

      THAT statement is what you want beneath each of these pictures, not what the right-wing media wants to make of it. Let's not slander a patriot like Obama, just as  Obama will not slander McCain's patriotism.

      This is a non-story.

      Habeas Corpus:See Hamilton quoting Blackstone in The Federalist Papers, number 84.

      by Ignacio Magaloni on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:31:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  This actually does work. (3+ / 0-)

        Back when the Cindy Sheehan protest in Crawford was in full swing, the father of another slain marine named Gary Qualls became a cause celebre among Republicans and rightwingers as the anti-Sheehan. He was very critical of her and said she was dishonring her son's and his son's memory, etc.

        I found a phopto and evidence that Sheehan had actually met Qualls down in Crawfoird and that she and Qualls had hugged and consoled each other over tehir losses.

        Plus, Qualls felt moved when he saw his son's "cross" that was erected in proteste at the Sheehan site.

        Later Qualls pretended this never happened, and I slammed him in a couple of blog posts. But, I then posted links to my boig posts (including the photo of the two of them hugging) all over the wingnutosphere in comments sections.

        Over time, I think it had an effect. Other liberal blogs started linking to my posts to debunk and defuse the whole Qualls thing, and he never got any traction.

        •  Thank you! This is the sort of activism we need! (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Hesiod, Ignacio Magaloni

          I've read most of the comments to this diary and I'm moved to thank you, Hesiod, for what is obviously a long history of effective activism on your part.

          I agree with you completely about the importance of getting ahead of this story. This is small potatoes compared to the swiftboat attempts to come, but it's important to deal with them right from the beginning.

          And your idea of an "online immune system" (that's how I picture it anyway) of reasonable people that will politely fight these stories while they are still on the right-wing blogs ... that seems to me like the perfect activity for articulate activists who really want to help.

          The more organized an operation like this would get, the more effective they would be.

          The message I see in this whole lame Che story is this: Ordinary folks matter in the campaign. Even these volunteers can fuck things up - but other volunteers can make things better, if they choose to have a positive role to play. Thank you for being one of the latter.

  •  Hey Bush is just trying to emulate Che ! (0+ / 0-)

    He's about ready to engage in 'show trials' (except they will also be secret) and executions, which will be scheduled for October 15, if at all possible.

    Viva la Bush !

  •  more "what's to come" (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    LordMike

    And this from a "leftie" site.

    Look at the Obama picture in the 10 Feb entry.

    http://marisacat.wordpress.com/

    Diabolic?  Anti-Christ?  Silver tongued devil?

    Watch for this imagry, targeting the religious right in general, and Black churches in particular.  They're going to try to brand him "false prophet" . . .

  •  So what did you expect? (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Magenta, TheCorkBoard

    This is pretty mild stuff compared to what is likely to come.
    Let's get this straight:  this is what the Republicans do, this is what they have always done.  The Obama campaign is foolish if they think he will somehow be immune to it.

    I'm not an Obama supporter but I AM a very big critic of the media as I've seen how they delivered the 2000 election to Bush and how they went along with the Swiftboating of Kerry and how they have pummelled Hillary Clinton like a bunch of schoolyard bullies.    

    Here's how it goes:  GOP operatives blast fax their nasty talking points to the conservative media who keep the memes afloat until the mainstream media picks up the ball and runs with it.

    Everyone must keep the spotlight on them, organize protests, don't let them get away with this crap.  

    It's the Supreme Court, Stupid!

    by Radiowalla on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:36:18 AM PDT

  •  It's on local forums in Madison, WI (0+ / 0-)

    We have the inevitable wing-nut who posts every talking point.

    He had a picture of the flag up 30 hours ago.

    "I can't be part of a famous hippie commune. I have a career to think about" - Candy Crowley, 1973

    by MadCityRag on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 06:55:26 AM PDT

  •  The SWIFT BOATING HAS STARTED (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    spookthesunset

    The Smearing in general has began. I was listening to a local right wing station and the are implying that Obama is a muslim and attacking his Church. Guys, we have to do everything in a power to not allow this! We need to call into talk-shows, creatte positive viral e-mails, boycott media outlets, WHATEVER we can. Don't let them Swift boat Obama.

    •  relax man (0+ / 0-)

      You are a RP convert, aren't you?  This isn't a RP campaign.  We are professionals.  No need to call into talk-shows, "email bomb" crap and boycott stuff.  Again.  This is a professional campaign, not a bunch of hackish amature crap so relax.  Obama is a big boy and he can take care of these things himself.  If he can't, that means he isn't a good fit for president.

      Swiftboating is just part of the deal black heart.  This is what happens when your guy has a legit chance of winning.  Stay calm and dont treat this like RP supported did with his campaign.