Daily Kos

Misrepresenting the Purpose of Superdelegates

Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 01:13:06 PM PDT

I've just caught up with the op-ed by Democratic strategist Tad Devine published in last Sunday's New York Times.  In that op-ed, Devine either makes some of the stupidest commentary on the intended purpose of superdelegates, or he is intentionally misrepresenting that purpose.

Devine begins by reviewing the 1984 campaign, noting in breathless prose that after it became clear that Mondale would fall short of achieving the support of a majority of delegates before the convention, "[t]he superdelegates did the work they were created to do: they provided the margin of victory to the candidate who had won the most support from primary and caucus voters."  That is utter nonsense.  The superdelegates were not created so that they could provide victory to the candidate who had won the most support from primary and caucus voters.  If that were the intent, there was no need for superdelegates: simply rewrite the rules so that winning the nomination required only a plurality and not a majority of the pledged delegates from the primaries.  No, the whole point of the superdelegates was to retain enough control in the hands of party insiders so that in certain circumstances they could decide the nomination for a candidate who had not won the most support from primary and caucus voters.

While Devine is correct that when the pledged delegates are closely divided, the superdelegates could, by voting as a bloc for the narrow leader, provide a sense that it really wasn't that close, that the party really isn't that divided, that is just a minor side benefit compared with the major intent behind the creation of the superdelegates.  What the superdelegates were really intended to do was to swing the nomination to a leadership-approved candidate if, by the time of the convention, many in the party were wringing their hands and wailing, "My God!  What have the voters done?"  That could be the case if a major scandal involving the leading candidate broke late in the primary campaign, or if the leading candidate died, or something equally extreme and unforeseen occurred.

Devine is correct that superdelegates swinging the nomination earlier in the primary campaign by pledging to support a particular candidate is a very bad idea.  If such superdelegate pledges were binding, it would be an idea so bad as to make the whole concept of superdelegates fatally flawed.  As it is, early efforts to influence the outcome of the nomination through commitments from superdelegates may not be an idea obviously bad enough to convince the party leadership to give up on their whole concept of superdelegates.

In any event, we don't need to pretend that superdelegates were only ever intended to  provide the margin of victory to the candidate who had won the most support from primary and caucus voters.  They were not.  They were intended, in certain rare and unforeseen circumstances at the end of the primary campaign, to swing the nomination to someone who otherwise would not have received the nomination.  The current debate should be over the question of whether a close nomination contest in and of itself qualifies as such a rare and unforeseen circumstance.  To my mind, a close nomination clearly does not qualify, and the superdelegates, having no intended role to play,  should essentially disappear by showing tremendous deference to the decision of the voters -- even if that is not what the superdelegates were created to do.

Tags: superdelegates, Tad Devine (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 23 comments

  •  Mondale... Mondale? (0+ / 0-)

    Could anyone much have been better at boring us all to death?

    I'd forgotten that he ran against Reagan.

    What IS it with the Democratic Party picking candidates that look and sound like, well, dentists?

    They might make great dentists but they really do not INSPIRE.

    Dana Curtis Kincaid Ad Astra per Aspera! http://www.angrytoyrobot.blogspot.com The enemy is not man, the enemy is stupidity.

    by angrytoyrobot on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 01:17:47 PM PDT

    •  And don't forget.. (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      zbctj52, angrytoyrobot

      ..Vice Presidential candidate Geraldine Ferraro, the first woman to run for that office, if I remember correctly.

      And even then, people were talking about if people were ready for such a large step as that...

      I'm still an Edwards supporter, and a Patriots fan. Not having the best year here...

      by Stymnus on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 01:52:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's right! (0+ / 0-)

        She was a drag because the Rethugs brought up her husband's mob (alleged) ties or something.

        The more things change the more they stay the same.

        Go Hillary!

        Dana Curtis Kincaid Ad Astra per Aspera! http://www.angrytoyrobot.blogspot.com The enemy is not man, the enemy is stupidity.

        by angrytoyrobot on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 02:08:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  In fact... (0+ / 0-)

    that very campaign was when I first learned about superdelegates.  I remember a young, intelligent, dynamic Gary Hart (pre-Donna Rice) winning the Ohio primary. Then a few days later, we all found out that Mondale actually won more delegates, because he had previously locked up all of Ohio's superdelegates.

    I was actually pretty proud of voting for Mondale in the General Election, but who knows...

    •  From their outset (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      zbctj52, dfb1968, dpryan

      The superdelegates have played this early commitment game.  It has always been a bad idea, serving only to prematurely and perhaps unnecessarily put the party leadership in conflict with Democratic voters and a commitment to the principle of one person, one vote.

  •  Independents (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Foodle

    I heard Willie Brown say yesterday that part of the thinking about Superdelegates was to blunt the impact of Independents voting in the Democratic Primary.

    There was a concern that if Independents voted in large numbers for one candidate over the other then the nominee would not reflect the real choice of Democrats.

    The hope was that Superdelegates would be a check on excessive influence from outside of the party.

    •  That's another example (0+ / 0-)

      ...of how the superdelgates were intended to retain control in the hands of the party leadership, not to provide the margin of victory to the candidate who had won the most support from primary and caucus voters.

      The fundamental question is when and under what circumstances the superdelegates should play their intended role of over-riding the voters, and when the superdelegates should fade into the shadows.  

  •  You Are Wasting Your Time (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Magenta, zbctj52, VClib

    By informing people of what the actual rules and actual intents are.  They are only interested interpretations of rules and intents that serve their desired outcome.

    I recc'd anyway but don't expect a productive response.

    ---- now they sit and rattle their bones and think of their bloodstone days...

    by TooFolkGR on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 01:26:14 PM PDT

    •  Which is too bad, as there are so many (0+ / 0-)

      opinions floating around on what a super delegate is or isn't. So many contradictions, no supporting facts, and a whole lot of BS.  

      I hope that a Front Pager will write a diary so that everyone can get on the same page and this mis/dis? information will stop.  Hopefully, this phase will pass too, and on to the next big hoopla.

      But I've learned such an important lesson, if Democrats don't run they can't win. Ellinorianne

      by zbctj52 on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 02:10:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I heard Pelosi say... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    mkfarkus

    that the super delegates are intended to give party insiders a spot in the convention outside the regular delegates, which opens more delegate spots to regular people.  Otherwise, I guess the delegates would be party insiders, and regular people wouldn't get a chance to participate.

    that make sense?

    Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society -Mark Twain

    by gooners on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 01:29:46 PM PDT

  •  Well, That's True In This Sense (0+ / 0-)

    The superdelegates--as Willie Brown explained so well the other night on Wolf Blitzer--are written into the rules in order to allow party insiders, people who supposedly have worked for the party and are in leadership in the party, to protect the party from having the Republicans elect our Democratic Party nominee by voting overwhelmingly in open primary states for a nominee they prefer to run against in the general election.

    Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime. ~Potter Stewart

    by SignalSuzie on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 01:30:04 PM PDT

    •  You don't need superdelegates to do that (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      zbctj52, rlochow

      Closing the primaries would prevent Republicans from overwhelming Democratic voters in the primaries.  Giving the appearance of valuing the voters while reserving the ability to over-ride their votes is an inherently troublesome concept.

  •  As I recall... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Foodle

    the superdelegates in 1984 had committed themselves to Mondale well before the convention.  Both Gary Hart and Fritz had about the same number of pledged delegates, with Hart outpacing Mondale in the popular vote and Hart having the best chance (according to some polls) against Reagan.

    One thing about that race is that some of Hart's pledged delegates "vanished" between the time of a primary/caucus and the convention.  It was speculated by some that the "machine" in some of these states managed to reject some Hart delegates and appoint Mondale ones--as the machine could/can do.

    Gary Hart believes  the '08 race will be different, and the pledged delegates will hold for each candidate, but I'm not so sure.  Also, it seems likely to me that you're not going to get an honest number of which supers are in which candidate's column until the convention--think of the pressure from constituents on these folks.  

    •  You recall correctly (0+ / 0-)

      After the last primary but before the convention, Mondale locked up enough superdelegates to support his existing lead and secure the nomination.  That's much less troublesome than current efforts to decide who can lead while there are still more caucuses and primaries to come.

    •  That's Not Quite Right (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      lalo456987

      Hart never came close to beating Mondale in pledged delegates.  By the end of the race he floated the idea that if he could combine his pledged delegates with those of Jesse Jackson AND enough superdelegates swung to his side he could win the nomination.  At the end of the day Mondale finished with around 2,200, Hart had 1,200, and Jackson had close to 500, and the number of superdelegates was approx. 500.  

      From this one can see two things: Hart really making a bold, even foolish claim (he was proposing that super delegates should swing the nomination to him even though Mondale had gotten the most pledged delegates);  superdelegates at the 1984 convention did play the role Devine suggests (they allowed Mondale to convert a CLEAR lead in pledged delgates into a majority, and so made any possible floor fight pointless).

      To discover whether Mondale's use of superdelegates was in accord with the original intent of the Hunt Commission, or whether the diarist is correct, one would have to parse the language of documents which led to their creation.  My hunch, the Hunt Commission merely spelled out how superdelegates would be appointed and was vague about the question of how they should use their votes.  I mean, c'mon.  Why spell this out?

      Could superdelegates flip a result?  Sure.  Would they be right to do this?  I'll put it this way.  The Democratic party has the right to use whatever rules they want to choose their nominee.  And voters have the right to vote for whomever candidate they want, give money to whomever they want, and so on, in the general.

      I don't contest the right of superdelegates to flip the result.  If they did, though, I wouldn't consider myself a Democrat anymore.  I'd become an independent.  And whether superdelegates lasted would depend upon what millions of voters did during the next election.  That much, to me, seems obvious.

      "Wear the eye patch, Bret. Wear the funky, funky eye patch".

      by ClaudiusTheGod on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 02:06:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thank you... (0+ / 0-)

        when I wrote what I did I had only a hazy recollection of how the totals back then.  My mistake was to assume that Mondale's 2100+ final tally included all of the 500 supers.  That would have made the "pledged" totals differ by about 400 with Mondale leading, and Jackson having pretty much the rest.

        I too will no longer be a Democrat if the supers flip a result away from the pledged delegate leader.

  •  Then again... (0+ / 0-)

    Maybe the real point of superdelegates is just campaign financing.

  •  But... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Foodle

    Do the superdelegates actually know the purpose of superdelegates?

    Unless they all do, then the 'purpose' of superdelegates is whatever the superdelegates themselves say it is.

    Got a problem with my posts? Quit reading them. They're usually opinions, and I don't come here to get in arguments.

    by drbloodaxe on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 01:59:08 PM PDT

  •  Another Purpose of Superdelegates (0+ / 0-)

    Another purpose of superdelegates--probably the main purpose in terms of the personal interests of the superdelegates themselves--was to enable people of eminence in elected public or party office to have the prestige of serving as delegates without the burden of enmeshing themselves in political factionalism.

    A vote by superdelegates in opposition to the expressed opinion by the voters would almost certainly create a major controversy that would both give us four or eight years of President Mc
    Cain and likely produce a good number of primary challenges and state committee battles in the years to come.  It would enmesh the superdelegates in factional politics, and probably lead to a rules reform effort that would completely abolish superdelegates and separate members of Congress, members of the Democratic National Committee, and statewide elective officials from the status as voting delegates.

    I therefore believe that the winner of the primary elections and caucus elections will gain majority support from the superdelegates.  This is one of those times that those with formal power cannot exercise that power without facing the elimination or severe weakening of that power.

    IMPROVING GOVERNMENT FOR THE AVERAGE CITIZEN

    by State Rep Mark Cohen Dem PA on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 02:27:01 PM PDT

    •  Of course (0+ / 0-)

      ...the far simpler way of preventing superdelegates from becoming enmeshed in political factionalism is for them not to be delegates in the first place.  On the other hand, if you start from the presumption that party eminences should exert significant control over the nomination, then making them superdelegates could keep them apart from political factionalism -- at least up until they commit to being agents of a particular faction.  On the other hand, that still doesn't explain why or for what purpose party eminences should have that degree of control over the nomination process.

  •  Not Correct (0+ / 0-)

    The true purpose of the superdelegates was really to avoid the embarrassment that elected US Senators, Congressmen or women, Governors or state Democratic Party National Committeemen or women, who work full time for the Democratic Party all year round, would not end up as delegates to the Party's National Convention.

    The idea that they could swing an election or a nomination was never actually a consideration.  The issue arose when several Democratic US Senators were denied delegate status in 1972 (I think that was the convention when it happened) and it was very embarrassing to the Party.

    Giving them automatic delegate status would eliminate that embarrassment.

    It certainly is a lot more logical to me to have individuals who devote their heart and soul to the Democratic Party all year round to have them as voting delegates, then it might be to have one-time independents, or even Republicans, elected to be delegates to the Democratic National Convention from states that have open primaries.

    •  Not the issue (0+ / 0-)

      Yes, making superdelegates out of US Senators, Congressmen or women, Governors or state Democratic Party National Committeemen or women does preserve their position and power over the nomination.  However, that doesn't answer why or for what purpose these persons should hold power reserved from Democratic voters.

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