Daily Kos

Why Clinton Won't Last Until the Convention

Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:24:47 AM PDT

There has been great chatter about the Clinton campaign talking about how they're going to try to grab the nomination away from Obama via the superdelegates, I'm sure feeding an additional round of "superdelegates are evil!" waves around here.

However, Obama fans should, instead of rejecting superdelegates, embrace them since they are the very ones who can prevent Clinton from causing a hung convention.

The reason why I say to embrace the superdelegates is that it is nearly impossible for Obama to clench the nomination with pledged delegates alone, yet it's looking increasingly certain that he'll win it if you include superdelegates.

Currently my Pledged Delegate count looks like thus:

If you're viewing this diary after the numbers have updated, the numbers as of this diary are Clinton: 1001, Obama: 1135 - a 134 pledged delegate lead, with 9 delegates still unaccounted for in Colorado.

For Obama to hit 2,025 delegates with only pledged delegates, he would need either:

  1. 81.6% of all remaining pledged delegates, or
  1. All of Edwards pledged delegates and 79.2% of all remaining pledged delegates.

Well, the fact is that, without Clinton dropping out of the race, this isn't going to happen, and trying to blow off superdelegates actually gives Clinton the excuse of dragging the nomination out to the convention since "no one will have a majority"

Contrast this with the current delegate count, including superdelegates (based on the list here)

Again, if you arrive after I've updated the numbers, they are currently Clinton: 1235, Obama: 1286.5 (the half delegate is a Democrats Abroad Superdelegate, as they only count 1/2 vote).

Now, the gut reaction for many Obama fans is that they don't like this graph as much since Clinton is much closer to Obama, with Obama only being up 51.5 delegates instead of 134.  However, the thing to note here is that Obama is 151.5 delegates closer to the nomination with this chart.

For Obama to win the magic number with absolutely no new superdelegates whatsoever, he would need to win 67.7% of the remaining pledged delegates.  OK, still a lot, but not necessarily an unbelievable number now considering his margins in states since Super Tuesday.

However, according to the superdelegate page, Obama has added 53 delegates so far in the month of February, or 3.5 per day.  Granted some of those might be older ones which are just being added as the website becomes aware of them, but most of those are probably new this month.

If one were to just assume that Obama were to be endorsed by merely a single superdelegate a day between now and June 7th, the date of the last caucus, that would give him an additional 113 superdelegates.

If you added this to his total, that would give Obama 1400 votes, and Obama would only need to win 57.3% of remaining pledged delegates.  And that's by understating the number of superdelegate endorsements he has been receiving by 1/3.

If he were to receive 2 endorsements a day on average, he would only need to win 46.9% of remaining pledged delegates.  If he received 3 a day, he would only need to win 36.6% of remaining pledged delegates (though Clinton would actually win the pledged delegate race under this scenario).

If he were to win 1 superdelegate a day between now and the start of the Democratic Convention, he would need to win 50.1% of remaining pledged delegates.

Meanwhile, Obama's own delegate projections - projections which he has far exceeded since Super Tuesday, by the way - He is projected to win 50.2% of remaining delegates.

Just for comparison - Obama was projecting himself to win 193 of the 353 delegates since Super Tuesday (54.6%).  He actually won 229, or 64.9%, beating his projections by 36 delegates or 10.3%.

Of course, this shows that Clinton could still swing the nomination her way if she suddenly swung all the momentum her way, and if she went into the convention with all the momentum and only down by a couple dozen pledged delegates, she may have a legitimate argument.  However, the chances of that seem rather slim.

Our next sign of whether there is any swing will be Tuesday, when 94 delegates are up for grabs in Hawaii and Wisconsin.  Obama's projection has him winning 51-43 (54.3%).

The more he exceeds expectations, the more superdelegates will come his way, and the sooner he will eventually be able to hit the magic number: 2,025.

Tags: Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Superdelegates, 2008, election (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 34 comments

    •  I'm a sucker... (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      mkfarkus, gchaucer2

      for these pie charts.

      Great analysis, as per.  Still, I would NEVER. EVER. NEVER. count Clinton as being down and out.  I hope you are right.  But if wishes were horsepower I'd be driving a Harley chopper...or something like that.

      "We're all working for the Pharaoh" - Richard Thompson

      by mayan on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:28:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, they'll probably keep up the rhetoric (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        mayan, mjd in florida

        if for no other reason than to try to encourage people to donate money.  Nothing will turn off the money faucet faster than basically admitting that you've already lost.

      •  Not I (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        mayan, mommaK

        I'm too statistics challenged to appreciate 'em. I do understand the math, though. It seems that getting JRE's endorsement would be pretty key in boosting Obama up into the realm of "probable" in terms of getting a majority of super-delegates to swing his way.
        Which tells me Obama supporters need to start putting the pressure on Edwards, emails and letters wise. He's been pretty responsive to the netroots thus far, so I'm guessing it couldn't hurt, and might help him make up his mind.

        •  Just to be exact (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          mayan, Lisa Lockwood, mommaK

          Edwards' 26 delegates make up 0.8% of pledged delegates, and 0.6% of total delegates, so it's not really that big.  But 26 delegates is still 26 delegates.

          •  Yup the numbers aren't huge (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            mayan

            but the continued press and momentem and having John's donor list - priceless.

            McCain = "A whine, a swear word, and P.O.W."

            by ETinKC on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:49:17 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Not really. The 'endorse-by' date has passed. (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              mayan

              Sen Edwards' influence from his point forward is negligible ... roughly 0.6% to be precise. Had he endorsed a candidate before SuperTuesday he would have had an impact.  Now the die has been well and truely cast w/o his input.  

              •  He could still influence (2+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                mayan, Quicklund

                states like Ohio and Pennsylvania I think

                •  Perhaps (0+ / 0-)

                  But I think the Edwards suppporters have moved on.  The 2% still voting Edwards belong, I suspect, in that portion of the vote that goes to None Of The Above in every election.  I suspect the reachable voters have been reached.

                  Besides, the timing is against an Edwards effect.  If he endorses tomorrow, whatever effect ithas can be smoothed over by the time OH/TX rolls around.  If he endorses right before the Tx/OH primaries, the result might already be seen an inevitable.  The time Sen Edwards could have had an effect was before Super Tuesday.  Before NV, actually, if his goal is to help Sen Clinton.

                  I just don't see an Edwards endorsement having much more an effect at this point than an Kucinich endorsement.  Then again I am often wrong in these predictions. :)

        •  I just like the colors... (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          revbludge

          I have no idea what they mean.

          "We're all working for the Pharaoh" - Richard Thompson

          by mayan on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:56:21 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I sure hope you're right (2+ / 0-)

      I've been looking to FAJ this primary season instead of CNN, MSNBC, ABC, or any other crappy acronym.

      So far, you have not disappointed, and I will be the first to buy you a beer should your prediction come true.

      "Kid, we don't like your kind, and we're gonna send your fingerprints off to Washington."--Alice's Restaurant

      by ekthesy on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:44:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Now this is the type of Candidate Diary that (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      aimeeinkc, Osiris, Thaddaeus Toad, mommaK

      SHOULD be on the recommended list.  As much as I admire the passion and understand some of hte anger - I don't think those other type of Diaries do anyone any good - unless your goal is to gather mojo.

      McCain = "A whine, a swear word, and P.O.W."

      by ETinKC on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:55:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Couldn't agree more. (0+ / 0-)

      A strong showing into March 4 and the super delegates will flock to Obama to avoid uncertainty at the convention.  

      We are the ones we've been waiting for.

      by Same As It Ever Was on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 10:23:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Ah! (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    mayan

    But you're pledged delegate count doesn't resemble CNN's pledged delegate count, or the various Pledge Delegate Counts over at MyDD.

    I swear, we need a MyPledgeDelegateCount.com where people can register their own versions of this crazy-assed delegate system.

    Great Diary Fleet! Recommended.

    http://www.wrapupafrica.com A skirt. A skill. A life saved.

    by librarianman on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:28:30 AM PDT

  •  Naive In The Extreme, I'm Afraid (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Osiris

    Don't get so caught up in the numbers running that you forget you're dealing with HUMANS here...

    Because of the proportional distribution of Delegates, The SUPERS are going to decide this now.

    And you will have a core group holding out until the VERY END for the best deal they can get.

    Hillary's weakness right now is among BLACK Super-Delegates who have already pledged to her, who won't want to be seen as going against "There own kind".

    We've already seen examples of this, such as the NAACP meetings, etc.

    •  perhaps (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Quicklund, Same As It Ever Was

      but it seems that the number of superdelegates who have been endorsing have been accelerating, not decelarating.  Perhaps it will slow down if Clinton has good showings in Ohio and Texas, but the "dealing with humans" is actually an additional reason why I think Obama will win sooner rather than later unless Clinton is able to swing the momentum.

      •  I think the supers (0+ / 0-)

        will go for whoever is projected to win more pledged delegates after a certain point, unless one of the candidates drops out first. (ie they may not wait until the convention to move en masse, even if both are still in the race)

        I don't know when that point will be, exactly. It probably depends what happens through March 4. If Obama wins every contest between now and March 4, if Clinton doesn't officially concede, she'll still be treated as if she had (ala Huckabee)

        If Obama loses most of the races from now through March 4, including WI, OH, an TX, the race is wide open again

        If Obama wins most of races coming up, but loses OH or TX, but not both, the supers may wait for PA. If he wins PA, we revert back to scenario 1.

        I think the message people should be getting our regarding the supers is that, as a group, and especially any who are undecided, they should make their decision based on who will have more pledged delegates according to current rules. I really want Obama to win, but if he ends up behind on pledged delegates, he does not DESERVE the nomination. Especially since there doesn't seem to be a widespread conspiracy to "coronate" Clinton among the superdelegates, this is the only line to take--and has the benefit of being right, not just spin.

        Barack Obama will only become president if enough people pay attention, so pay attention, dammit!

        by JMS on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 10:54:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Nice pictures for a Friday (0+ / 0-)

    thanks

  •  I agree for different reasons (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    mjd in florida

    Her money is drying up.  And they have to protect Bill's legacy.  At a certain point the Democratic hostility towards the Clintons will be overwhelming if they try to subvert the will of the voters.  Bill is still the more dominant one in the relationship imo;  if her unsuccessful presidential bid harms his presidency, something will give.

    John McCain: Vowing to connect real leaders with real bowels

    by chicago minx on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:37:34 AM PDT

  •  You have to love a voice of reason (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    MoDem, mjd in florida

    Love the graphs Admiral.  And look forward to Tuesday and Wisconsin, and especially March 4th.

    "Hope is that thing inside us that insists...that something better awaits us if we have the courage to fight for it." --Barack Obama

    by loree920 on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:37:52 AM PDT

  •  Nobody is saying Superdelegates shouldn't count. (4+ / 0-)

    But that they shouldn't overturn the pledged delegate results.

    If Hillary Clinton can win the pledged delegates, then those superdelegates currently supporting him should switch and support her.

    Thats the central argument of the Obama campaign: All superdelegates should ratify the pledged delegates.

    With him from the beginning, with him until the end.

    by brooklynbadboy on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:43:55 AM PDT

    •  Right, and I dont think that will happen (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      FleetAdmiralJ

      If Obama wins the most pledged delegates, enough superdelegates will support him so that he wins the nomination.

      •  If she's smart, she will drop out. (0+ / 0-)

        She had better turn this thing around and win it outright fair and square. Otherwise, she will be damaged goods for the rest of her life. Even moreso than she already is.

        With him from the beginning, with him until the end.

        by brooklynbadboy on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:55:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, I dont mind the race going (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          FleetAdmiralJ, Osiris, Quicklund

          all the way through the last primary in June. After that, whoever has less pledged delegates should drop out. No one except the GOP benefits from a nasty fight at the convention.

          •  I do. (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            mommaK

            This allows the GOP to rally around their candidate, fix their differences, open state offices across the country, bring in their people, train, and RAISE MONEY.  While we are arguing about some damn superdelegates.

          •  Sen Clinton will drop after TX and/or OH loss(es) (0+ / 0-)

            It is remarkable that a thin-resume candidate coming a series of 20+ point blowout losses is still considered to be formidable. I know, I know, eggs are not chickens. But these here 'how to hatch' instructions on the wall here tell me they will be soon.  

            Once she is defeated at her last firewall, her friends in the party structure will bring to her the unwlcome news: You Must Withdraw.

            And the Obama/McCain race will be on.

        •  I agree. (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          brooklynbadboy

          This winning by superdelegates only, reeks of sour grapes.  If she can not win it "fair and square" then out she goes.

          Agree with the FP of kos.  Her campaign was totally unprepared, POST 2/5.  How in the hell do you allow a campaign to lose, 8 in a row?  The excuse of caucus does not matter is the most ridiculous excuse I have ever heard.  We are talking more than 100M raised by her and she did not spend her money adequately, nor invest appropriately in these states.

          Now, she is behind the eight ball and want "superdelegates only"?

          The worst part is having her surrogates try to push that meme down the throats of the public.  It is laughable, at best.

  •  The Clintons will continue (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Fixed Point Theorem

    to blow the dog whistle all the way through PA, therein hurting working poor and middle class whites and blacks who compete against one another for scarce jobs rather than organize together for a new, non-NAFTA America.

    Workers of the world unite--back by popular demand.

    by Kab ibn al Ashraf on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:46:49 AM PDT

  •  whether they work for me or against me... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    mommaK

    ... I don't like this superdelegate business.  It's too open to corruption (both Obama and Hillary have been buying them off with what ammounts to bribes... I'm an Obama supporter but I hate to admit he's given them more money than she has) and it subverts the votes of the people.  It's not a good plan.  I know it's too late to do anything about 'em this election, but I hope Democrats will quickly work to do away with this "superdelegate" system for future elections.

    "Today a priest who performed 300 exorcisms was eaten by a green boogieman!"- George Carlin (R.I.P.)

    by shadetree mortician on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:58:35 AM PDT

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