Kiss Florida Goodbye In November

It was announced early this evening by the Florida Division of Elections that the so called "Marriage Protection Amendment" had gathered enough signatures (650,000, more than the 611,000 needed) at the last minute to qualify for the November ballot. You can read more here.

Florida4marriage.org collected 649,346 signatures, well above the required 611,009, according to the Secretary of State's Office. "I'm grateful to God first and our supporters second," said organizer John Stemberger. "The bottom line is kids need a mom and dad. Same sex marriages subject kids to a vast, untested social experiment."

Florida was going to be a tough nut to crack anyway. It's trended the wrong way ever since the 2000 debacle.

But his will only serve to bring out every wingnut in the state who think this is the most serious threat Florida faces in the coming years.

The only good news is that Florida now requires a 60% approval in order to pass a constitutional amendment. It's a high threshhold, but I'm afraid even that won't be a big enough obstacle.

If you want to join the fight, consider contributing to one of the two groups that will be leading the effort to defeat this initiative:

Fairness For All Families
or
Florida Red And Blue

***UPDATED***

What really frosts me about this is that Florida Red and Blue has raised closed to $1.5 million and Fairness for All Families close to $250,000 to fight this - I can think of much better things that could be done with that kind of money!

•  We don't need

  America's Swamp of Fascists, we can win without it.

  by nrafter530 on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 09:51:43 PM PDT

  •  we might...

    ...have a chance if they switch to paper ballots

    by TAPayne on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 09:52:40 PM PDT

    •  i thought it was a requirement now? n/t

      by nycstray on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:01:52 PM PDT

      •  no...

        ...now theres funny business with those expensive electronic voting machines they are using it seems and if im not mistaken, most have no paper trail even

        by TAPayne on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:20:43 PM PDT

        •  our expensive machines in NY got 86'd

          they hadn't officially rolled them out, but i think they were scheduled for this election.

          we get to continue with our old lever machines. and after that, it will be paper ballots. expensive experiment, but at least we don't have to suffer the consequences.

          by nycstray on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:33:12 PM PDT

          •  many places in...

            ...florida rolled them out for the primary... cringe and may use them in november

            by TAPayne on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:36:00 PM PDT

      •  Correct

        The Jan 29 primary was the last election where touch screen machines could be used.

        Optical scan devices must be used starting with the August primary and for the November general election.

        by kansasr on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:27:04 PM PDT

        •  thanks! wonder what all these states are

          going to do with all these machines?

          by nycstray on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:34:16 PM PDT

          •  Kenya will buy them.

            < /morbidly bad joke>

            by killjoy on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:57:32 AM PDT

      •  YES!

        you see, the legislation (by the REPUBLICAN legislature) that put the primary date on January 29 was an omnibus bill that included (and here is why the Democrats voted for it) paper trails.  

        by dhonig on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 05:25:38 AM PDT

        •  damn, that's just rude to set up a bill that way!

          did they let it be known at the time what the penalty could be?

          by nycstray on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:27:23 PM PDT

  •  Can't say this is too surprising.

    This is, after all, where America's conservatives elderly go to die.

    Oh wait, did I say that out loud? I guess being a happily married gay man and seeing this kind of attack on my family brings out the anger in me.

    My apologies to those I've offended.....

    by Yalin on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:54:37 PM PDT

    •  Not offended at all

      In the January 29 primary 44% of the Republican voters and 39% of the Democratic voters were over the age of 60.

      I believe you can also find the elephant graveyard down here too!

      by kansasr on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:57:28 PM PDT

    •  This time -- but don't let it happen again! Grr

      Ha! We're not all quite that old down here, but I still cuss out all the ol' [recalcitrant] farts who insist on drinkin' da kool-aid.

      How anyone from the so-called "Greatest Generation" cannot recognize the same sort of threat they fought so hard against 60-years ago is beyond me. It'd be a tragic irony if this country fell into the full-fascist trap because of the same people who fought against it on another continent.

      Get a freakin' clue, gramps!!

      Bush = der fuhrer.

      by markthshark on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 11:59:44 PM PDT

  •  WTF?!!?

    Florida is a "swamp of fascists"?  What kind of crap is that.  And what kind of MORONS tipped it?  You identified, I admit, 650,000 fascists, but Florida has a LOT more people than that.  We are already pissing on the whole state by denying them a voice in the convention because of the actions of the REPUBLICAN legislature.  Now we're writing them of as fascists?

    Jeebus!

    by dhonig on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 05:24:35 AM PDT

•  It doesn't look like the amendment...

  bans divorce and death. How does that protect the children?

  by blueteam on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 09:55:13 PM PDT

  •  It also doesn't ban

    that abomination RED LOBSTER !

    by kansasr on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 09:58:32 PM PDT

    •  I've been with my lady since 1987 and these...

      freakin' wingnuts wanna make our relationship illegal?

      Yep, domestic partnerships [between a man and a woman] will be illegal too.

      Who in da hell do these Bible-thumpin' fascists think they are?

      Unreal

      by markthshark on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:15:15 AM PDT

  •  I think about this all the time

    as my daughter's father did die.  We're doing just fine.

    Defining who a family is - in any fashion - is really something the government ought to leave alone, wouldn't ya think?

    by pidge not midge on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:00:08 PM PDT

•  As you said, it was pretty much gone

  anyway. Maybe we'll be lucky and the Amendment won't get that 60% though.

  by tigercourse on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 09:55:33 PM PDT

•  We are switching to paper ballots

  And the word on the street is that it'll be a disaster.

  The only hope is that there will be a primary election in August, which will be the first where the change will occur from touch screen to optical scan (mostly happening in the large counties - Miami/Dade, Broward).

  Whether or not that will be sufficient work out the bugs before November, we'll have to wait and see.

  by kansasr on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 09:56:48 PM PDT

  •  Every single one of our 100 counties...

    ...switched to paper in 2006 (optical scan or touchscreen with a printed record of the votes). Counties had the from the date the law requiring the switch was signed by our governor (end of August) until our primary (first Tuesday in May) to make the switch.

    Although kicking and screaming in a few counties resulted in some delays, in the end we had virtually no problems of any kind. But then, my state isn't Florida...

    by Free Spirit on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:18:06 PM PDT

•  that's a shame n/t

  by John DE on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 09:56:55 PM PDT

•  Tips, comments

  Are always appreciated

  by kansasr on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 09:57:30 PM PDT

  •  well, Florida was going to be an uphill battle

    anyway.  Don't underestimate conservative anger at McCain, though.  If Hillary doesn't get the nomination, conservatives won't be nearly as energized, even by this piece of filth on the ballot.

    by thereisnospoon on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:56:27 AM PDT

  •  Sorry I'm late...

    It never ends, does it?

    by Joes Steven on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 04:14:04 PM PDT

•  Ugh. What a jerk.

  "The bottom line is kids need a mom and dad."

  They're planning to prosecute or force marriage on widows and widowers, I take it? I hate this crap, this stupid homophobic bigotry. It pisses me off.

  by kath25 on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 09:58:45 PM PDT

  •  "The bottom line is I am physically and

    morally disgusted by the concept of homosexuality."

    by auntiebembem on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:45:04 PM PDT

    •  The real bottom line is he probably

      has a little black book with Larry Craig's number in it. The more they protest against 'teh gay' the more I think they are simply repressed.

      They should free themselves instead, and be happy.

      by shpilk on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 11:52:08 PM PDT

  •  There are an awful lot of grandparents

    raising their grandchildren because the parents have problems. I wonder what the bible thumpers think of that. No. Wait. I don't want to know.

    by sailmaker on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:21:22 AM PDT

•  National candidates need to condemn this

  initiative. Say it is 'gaybashing' which it is. No more of the Federalist nonsense. Take a stand for gay people.

  by DaleA on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:02:56 PM PDT

  •  What and risk losing those voters?

    Between the Clinton's who approved the Defense of Marriage Act and Don't Ask Don't Tell and Obama showcasing homophobic Donnie McClurkin, I don't hold out a lot of hope from the top of the ticket this year.

    (damn I've having trouble putting replies with the right comment tonite!)

    by kansasr on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:36:52 PM PDT

  •  Which national candidates would you suggest?

    McCain? Obama? Shillery?

    Drop 'em an email. Let me know how that works for ya'.

    by Jacques on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:37:25 PM PDT

•  There are two ways that I can see this

  amendment being defeated.  

  1. If a similar argument like the one in Arizona can be utilized, i.e. that this would hurt the elderly.  

  2. A whole slew of young people come out to vote for Barack Obama and in the process vote against bigotry.  

  by IhateBush on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:03:54 PM PDT

  •  Arizona is the model

    That's being used here.

    by kansasr on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:25:09 PM PDT

•  MO is trying a different tactic:

  This petition is circulating now:

  Shall Missouri law be amended to:

  ·    make it illegal for a doctor to provide a woman with an abortion at any time during her pregnancy unless the doctor determines, either immediately or after extensive and documented emotional, psychological, physical, situational, and demographic evaluations, that the procedure is necessary to prevent imminent death or serious medical risks; and

  ·    make it illegal for any person or entity to provide any drug, medical advice, or assistance for a woman to terminate her own pregnancy and subject them to a minimum fine of $800,000 plus attorney’s fees, regardless of any proof of injury?

  It will be a tough row to hoe as the petition must receive up to 95,000 verifiable signatures from 6 of the 9 Congressional districts.  There's an anti-affirmative action petition circulating as well.

  November will be ugly, folks.

  by pidge not midge on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:04:14 PM PDT

  •  I assume that the Democrats...

    ...put this one on the ballot to bring out Dems and moderate Republicans? Clever.

    by Free Spirit on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:46:53 PM PDT

•  How many wingnuts does that place have?

  I know it is a place that people go to retire, and I've read enough crazy Florida novels to know that the politics is pretty bizarre.  But this issue is mostly for the over 50 crowd.  Even mostly clueless under 30 something Republican raised kids out here in Nebraska just don't give a shit about who's marrying whom.  Is Florida so filled with nuts without bigger and better things to worry about that an issue like this would tip the balance?

  The state once went for Gore.  What is diffeent 8 years later?

  by mvr on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:04:52 PM PDT

  •  "9-11 changed everything." n/t

    by pidge not midge on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:06:04 PM PDT

  •  you're missing the northern part...

    that they call "Lower Alabama".  Intelligent Design narrowly defeated recently.

    by gooners on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:13:14 PM PDT

    •  I call this phenomenon the 'Fox Newsing Effect'

      Fair and balanced education, if you will.  After all, everyone has a right to voice their opinion.

      by pidge not midge on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:16:27 PM PDT

    •  Well...

      I grew up in the central part, and I was taught Darwinian evolution, Lamarckian evolution, the Big Bang theory, and intelligent design. It was a great education and I would be happy to have my kids taught the same way. I would not assume that people who aren't afraid to have their kids taught intelligent design are also worried about marriage being limited to a man and a woman.

      by Free Spirit on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:25:04 PM PDT

      •  can you clear up that last sentence?........n/t

        by gooners on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:33:53 PM PDT

        •  Hmmm...

          I can try:

          I would not assume someone who votes for intelligent design is also going to vote for marriage being defined as "between a man and a woman."

          That help?

          by Free Spirit on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:35:50 PM PDT

          •  yep-I see what you're saying now...n/t

            by gooners on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:43:11 PM PDT

•  The funny part is,

  Florida's Republican Governor, Charlie Crist, is a known homo.  It's the worst keep secret, evah.  

  Wonder if he'll chime in on this...or if Larry Flynt will make him.

  by HarveyMilk on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:04:52 PM PDT

•  Im sick of this civil union crap

  Why cant democrats say they support gay marriage? Civil Unions are just a stupid compromise that offends all gays and lesbians.

  But if Hillary is the nominee, the only southern state she could win will be arkansas. If its Obama, he will take SC, GA, AL, and VA.

  by PROfess PROgress on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:08:06 PM PDT

•  That makes

  the west all the more important. And Ohio,Iowa,and Mo.

  Florida is going to be tough anyway.
  Screw those SOB's.

  by Hawkjt on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:11:16 PM PDT

•  This will help the Democrats by spotlighting

  hypocrisy and division in the GOP. Governor Charlie Crist is gay.  The Florida papers all but outed him in his election bid a few years ago.  If he supports this measure, that story will come out (pun intended) in the Miami papers for sure.  If he doesn't support the measure, it will depress GOP unity and turnout on the matter.  John McCain is also not a great vehicle for the anti-gay theme.  I'm sure there are right wing Republicans who think he is gay because his rhetoric isn't quite as strident as others on this issue.

  The Democrats believe in tolerance and having Hillary at the top of the ticket will be good because she has no trouble talking tolerance while being respectful of religious people. The gender gap will also play to her favor in the Florida Panhandle and other conservative areas to offset turnout on the GOP side.  

  by khyber900 on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:29:38 PM PDT

•  The amendment is awful

  But it won't make much difference in which candidate wins Florida.

  The wingnuts tried to help Dubya with anti-gay marriage crap in 2004.  You might claim they won, as the amendments mostly passed and Dubya won in '04.

  But the '04 results were compared to the '00 results, and Dubya actually did slightly better in the two-party vote relative to 2000 in states that had no such amendment on the ballot compared to those that did.

  by CenterLeft on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:34:44 PM PDT

•  What and risk losing those voters?

  Between the Clinton's who approved the Defense of Marriage Act and Don't Ask Don't Tell and Obama showcasing homophobic Donnie McClurkin, I don't hold out a lot of hope from the top of the ticket this year.

  by kansasr on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:35:30 PM PDT

•  FL'S GAY GOV ABOUT TO BECOME VP very weird state

  by tomdc on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:45:50 PM PDT

•  The only hope...

  A third party wingnut campaign.

  by Drummond on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 10:47:30 PM PDT

•  South Dakota...

  Very nearly beat one of these ridiculous proposals last November. I think Americans are sick and tired of this kind of stuff.

  by ptmflbcs on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 11:05:45 PM PDT

•  Perhaps it's a fool's quest but I remain hopeful.

  that this farcical waste of time will go down in ignominious defeat come November.

  Of course, stupid me still had high hopes of my beloved Sunshine State turning a nice hue of azure blue after Jebby and his lap kitty, Katherine Harris, exited stage left.

  Yeah, they're both gone now (FINALLY!) and I'm still waitin' on that one.

  We're doomed.

  by markthshark on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 11:39:23 PM PDT

•  This country is changing

  NH has civil unions now, and we have a gay Episcopalian bishop, too.

  If someone had told me 8 years ago this would happen, in the State I have lived almost 50 years in, I would have told them they were out of their freeking minds.

  Slowly, we are dragging these neanderthals into the 20th century. By the of the 21st, they might be ready for the Millennium.

  Well one can always hope, anyway.

  (We'll make them go through Y2K again, just to watch the fake panic, for fun.)

  by shpilk on Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 11:58:38 PM PDT

  •  Kudos to my home state!

    If you could do something about the snow, I'd be back in a heartbeat.

    (Of course, in Florida, it's dangerous to venture out of South Florida....)

    by kansasr on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 04:02:47 AM PDT

•  popping real estate bubble

  I have my fingers crossed that the economic woes of the Red Staters will have enough of them ticked off at conservatives to come back home to the party of the working people despite all the flag waving and fear mongering the Cons can muster.

  by DrFaustus on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:24:33 AM PDT

•  fighting old battles

  Well i think FL is all to play for in 08, i can't see the econmic downturn helping the GOP at all.

  This initative is straight out of the Rove playbook, and to be honest, people have got bigger problems to contend with, like keeping their job.

  by glennmid on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:43:08 AM PDT

•  Michigan passed an anti-gay marriage thing...

  ...the same year that they re-elected a Democratic governor and Senator by about 15% and re-took the state House.  "Fortunately", anti-gay marriage stuff drags in a lot of Dems so Florid shouldn't be in big danger.  And yeah, it's not fortunate, more sad than anything, but as far as Democratic voting goes, this isn't too big a worry.  

  I'd love for our government to get out of the  marriage biz with its historical religious and gender overtones, call everything a civil union, and be done with it.  I disagree with the legal notion that "marriage" is a "civil right" that's separate from religion.  It should be tied to the 1st Amendment, moreso than the 10th.  <sigh>

  by other72384 on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 03:31:46 AM PDT

•  I believe that some very effective

  advertising can be done to defeat this amendment.

  John McCain spoke on the Senate floor against the federal marriage amendment. Said it was un-Republican.

  Charlie Crist told the RPOF to quit spending money to promote the state amendment. He said he was a "live and let live king of guy".

  Rudy Guliani supported gay rights, as does Arnold Schwarzeneger.

  Republican Cuban-American Rep. Ilean Ros-Lehtinen has been a vocal supporter of gay rights.

  I don't think it will be hard to show that this type of divisive hate-mongering is the voice of the past. If the amendment is defeated by a thoughtfully managed campaign, then the money will be well spent.

  It will go a long way to changing attitudes. I know it is depressing to have to fight your entire life simply for acceptance, but we must support each other in this battle and stay strong.

  Keep up the good work Kansasr!

  by Tally on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 10:04:05 AM PDT