Daily Kos

Texas and Ohio: Don't Write Clinton Off Yet

Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 04:08:06 AM PDT

As I've been watching the coverage of the primary and caucus results on MSNBC, I've been struck by a pattern in the outcomes, one that doesn't track women, African-Americans, blue-collar voters, senior citizens, college students, lattes, Priuses, Birkenstocks or trust funds.

I call this pattern "the stripes." And it harks back to the analysis of American geographical subcultures of David Hackett Fischer in his book Albion's Seed.

In my previous diary on this topic, I discussed how John Edwards' highland Southerner ("Borderer") background gave him strength as a general election candidate but would probably prevent him from winning the Democratic Party nomination; how Barack Obama's Midwestern roots and Quaker-like style gave him a strong geographic and cultural base across the heartland; and how Hillary Clinton's background, style and current office were somewhat at odds, weakening her despite her early advantages in the campaign. With Edwards out of the race, certain early patterns have become sharper, giving new grounds for speculation on the outcomes of the upcoming contests in Ohio and Texas.

A quick-and-dirty recap: America was originally settled by four waves of immigrants from the British Isles: East Anglian Puritans, who settled in New England; Southern Cavaliers, who settled in Virginia and along the southern Atlantic coast; Midland Quakers, who settled in the Delaware River Valley; and Northern Borderers, who settled in the highlands of the South and settled much of the frontier in the early 19th century.

The Puritans were an egalitarian and communitarian culture, with a high regard for education at all levels and a rigid code of morals and laws. The Cavaliers were mostly Anglican aristocrats and their servants, who re-created the hierarchical rural culture of England on American shores and introduced the institution of slavery. The Quakers were industrious and unusually tolerant for their time, creating a pluralistic urban society of tradesmen, clerks and manufacturers. The Borderers were mostly downtrodden tenant farmers, warlike, xenophobic and Evangelical Protestant.

Other regional cultures arose in Rhode Island, New York City, Maryland and South Carolina (from Congregationalist dissenters, Dutch patroons, Catholics and Huguenots, respectively), but of these, the only one that persisted as a distinct culture was New York's (as Fischer describes it, "a very heavy infusion of middle European and Jewish culture grafted on the old Dutch root"). To this day, the rest of the country sees New York as not quite part of the "real America," and New Yorkers return the favor by seeing the rest of the country as not quite worthy of New York. While the other dominant English cultures moved westward across the continent, New Yorkers tended to stay put.

Modern-day historians track the migrations of these dominant cultures using a variety of measures, but one of the most interesting to me (and to Fischer) is speech regions. As New Englanders moved westward, their speech evolved into the Northern speech of upstate New York, northern Pennsylvania and Ohio, Michigan, and northern Wisconsin -- leaping across the continent to leave traces in the Great Salt Lake, Puget Sound and San Francisco Bay areas as well. The descendants of the Delaware Valley Quakers spread widely across the northern portion of the continent, carrying their Midland speech pattern with them. The descendants of Borderers and Cavaliers did they same as they traveled westward, creating the two distinct dialects that give away any Yankee who tries to fake a "Southern" accent without being aware of the difference between highland Southern (Borderer) and coastal Southern (Cavalier).

The map below, of states that have held Democratic Party primaries and caucuses so far, is taken from the website of the New York Times, overlaid with lines demarcating the different speech regions, as shown on page 833 of Albion's Seed:

The dotted lines designate two additional regions that Fischer describes on pages 887–88 of Albion's Seed, the Great Basin ("a predominantly Mormon culture in Utah, and parts of Idaho, Nevada, Arizona, Colorado and Wyoming; a mix of New England, Midland and highland Southern culture") and Southern California ("a hybrid of highland Southern, midland, Hispanic and Jewish culture, spreading into Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico"). These lines are approximate, based on Fischer's descriptions.

Are the correlations as striking to you as they are to me? Clinton dominates across the Northern speech region, with only Connecticut and Maine standing out as aberrations. Obama dominates across the Midland speech region, with only New Jersey and the Southwest as aberrations. Clinton again dominates across the Highland Southern speech region, with no aberration, and Obama across the Coastal Southern speech region, the only aberration being Florida. If Southern California is viewed as a distinct region, then award it to Clinton, and the greater part of the Midland aberration goes away.

In my previous diary, I speculated that Clinton's campaigning style is consonant with the Puritan temperament, with its communitarian rhetoric and lecture-like tone. I believe this explains her success across New England and the Northern Tier. She has also put herself across as distinctly hawkish, in contrast to Obama's anti-war stance, which I believe has given her an advantage over him in the Highland Southern region; combine it with a forceful pro-Israel stance (not discussed much in the campaign but evident in her record), and she wins over Jewish voters in Southern California and New York, along with the parts of Florida that are dominated by relocated New Yorkers.

On the other side, Obama's tolerant and inclusive style and his up-front spirituality align him with the traditional Quaker values of the Midland region. As for his success in the coastal South, I think there are two things going on here. One is that Cavalier culture, historically, is very male-dominated and sexist. (Borderer culture is too, but in the case of this campaign, I think belligerence trumps sex.) The other is the legacy of slavery: a disproportionate number of African-American voters, whose numbers are even more disproportionate within the Democratic Party.

So what does this spell for Texas and Ohio? Aside from Kentucky and West Virginia, two almost wholly Borderer states, Texas and Ohio are the states where Clinton is most likely to outperform Obama.

Eight out of ten of Texas's largest population centers -- all but San Antonio and El Paso -- fall in the coastal Southern speech region, making them favorable territory for Obama. However, the state as an entity has always had a distinctly Borderer character, and this character has intensified greatly in the last two decades. This trend strongly favors Clinton, as does the state's enormous Latino population. I am not sure whether favorable conditions for Obama in coastal Texas can overcome these two large advantages for Clinton, his winning streak notwithstanding. (Keep in mind, as you look at the map, that all the states he's won recently are ones that he ought to have won, except for Maine.) The Burnt Orange Report mostly confirms what the map suggests: "Clinton also enjoys majority support in the South (57%) and Western (61%) regions of the state, and edges ahead in the Eastern part of the state 46% to 40%. Obama is beating Clinton 53% to 32% in the Central region and leads 49% to 44% in the Houston area. The Dallas Fort-Worth region is tied within margin of error (Clinton 42%, Obama 41%)." I hesitate to call the state; whoever wins will not, I think, win by much. But I think Clinton probably has the edge in the popular vote. (Curiously, according to the link, this probably won't win her a majority of delegates! I'm guessing this is due to Obama's strength in Austin and Houston.)

Ohio is a similar story. Based on cultural geography, one would expect Clinton to run strongly in Cleveland and Toledo, Obama in Dayton and Cincinnati. Having lived in Ohio, however, I can attest that it's a weird state, and it won't break down so simply. For starters, southern and southeastern Ohio have a sizable Appalachian (read: Borderer) population, which I would expect to swing to Clinton. Also, despite Cleveland itself's being pretty much what you'd expect of a northern city, the inner-ring suburbs around Cleveland have become strikingly liberal -- much more so than anywhere else in the state, except for liberal arts college towns such as Oberlin, Yellow Springs and Oxford. According to the New Republic, current polls show Obama leading strongly in Cincinnati, Clinton kicking his ass in Columbus, Toledo and rural southeastern Ohio, and the two running in a dead heat in Cleveland and Dayton. The New Republic finds these variations strange, but I see nothing here to disprove my overall hypothesis. If Obama does win Ohio, it won't be by the 20-point margins he's gotten used to. Frankly, I think Clinton will take the state, probably by 5 to 10 percentage points.

I might as well call the rest, while I'm at it: Vermont and Rhode Island probably ought to go to Clinton, but then again, Connecticut didn't, so who the hell knows? I'm going to guess that Vermont will go to Obama, but no bet on Rhode Island. Wyoming, a Great Basin state, will absolutely go for Obama, as will Mississippi. Pennsylvania will be closer, but Obama will win. Indiana and North Carolina will go to Obama; Indiana will be close, North Carolina won't. West Virginia and Kentucky will absolutely go to Clinton. Oregon, Montana and South Dakota are all Obama's.

Tags: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Texas, Ohio, regionalism, strategy, Democratic primary, general election, Albion's Seed, 2008 (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 68 comments

  •  Tips for r's (35+ / 0-)

    Boston needs your r's! Can you help?

    "The great lie of democracy, its essential paradox, is that democracy is first to be sacrificed when its security is at risk." --Ian McDonald

    by Geenius at Wrok on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 04:08:05 AM PDT

    •  Very nice diary... (5+ / 0-)

      enjoyable too.

      "We're all working for the Pharaoh" - Richard Thompson

      by mayan on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 04:42:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  This is completely awesome! (0+ / 0-)

      Fascinating!

      One of those unusual things you just never think of, but it really works in this situation.

      I wonder if you could do something along those lines with other races, say 2000 or 2004?  Or were the primary seasons not long enough?

      We...join arm in arm and decide we are going to remake this country block by block, precinct by precinct, county by county, state by state - that's what hope is.

      by DemocraticOz on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 05:55:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not sure about those years' primaries (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Boston Boomer

        and the pattern doesn't really work with this year's Republican nomination at all, because of the many candidates and the weird dynamics among them -- essentially, they've all been trying to win the Borderer vote, and none of them has had unimpeachable credentials. But you can absolutely see the patterns in the general election results of 2000 and 2004.

        "The great lie of democracy, its essential paradox, is that democracy is first to be sacrificed when its security is at risk." --Ian McDonald

        by Geenius at Wrok on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 06:34:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Fascinating! (0+ / 0-)

      I bought Albion's Seed about a year ago, but haven't had a chance to read it yet.  Thanks for a very interesting and informative diary.

      There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious...that you've got to put your bodies on the gears...and make it stop. -- Mario Savio

      by Boston Boomer on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 08:02:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Excellent! (0+ / 0-)

      High compliments from an Obama supporter.

      Ask me about my daughter's future - Ko

      by koNko on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 10:57:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  unless you discuss Texas districting, (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    mayan, MingPicket

    no prediction is accurate,

    they way texas assigns delegates is important, and its all but conceeded they are not going to do much better then obama in Delegates no matter what, so Texas really doesnt matter except to allow Hillary to push the finish line again, even if she wins by only 1 pt

  •  You have to also take into account (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    mayan, blue armadillo

    where the population in Texas is (huge centers in San Antonio, Austin, Houston, as well as the fact that Austin is more similar to, say, Seattle than it is to the surrounding areas.

    When liberals saw 9-11, we wondered how we could make the country safe. When conservatives saw 9-11, they saw an investment opportunity.

    by onanyes on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 04:18:51 AM PDT

    •  ps: just to let you know (7+ / 0-)

      that I did enjoy your diary; it is a great way to start a discussion.

      When liberals saw 9-11, we wondered how we could make the country safe. When conservatives saw 9-11, they saw an investment opportunity.

      by onanyes on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 04:19:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I did take that into account (4+ / 0-)

      I'm not sure, however, that it can overcome Clinton's other advantages across the state. If Obama does win, it's a clear sign that Borderer influence in Texas is on the wane.

      "The great lie of democracy, its essential paradox, is that democracy is first to be sacrificed when its security is at risk." --Ian McDonald

      by Geenius at Wrok on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 04:21:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  She's broke, has IOU's scattered thru the country (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        litho, onanyes, Steve Everett

        and invoices now 90 days overdue.

        If she was a homeowner, foreclosure would be happening right about now...

        http://www.politico.com/...

        Clinton’s 2007 year-end report showed her owing more than $5 million to vendors ranging from phone bank firms and pollsters to charter airline operators and telephone companies.

        Her campaign last month dismissed those debts as a matter of bookkeeping. "These are not true debts accruing by the campaign, but simply unpaid invoices," said spokesman Blake Zeff.

        Zeff pointed out the campaign at the end of 2007 had enough money in the bank to pay off its debts (it finished the year with $13 million on hand after subtracting the debt and contributions earmarked for the general election).

        "Sometimes invoices are not paid immediately because we need additional information for our records, or to verify expenses," said Zeff.

        But campaign finance experts said the unpaid bills filled a dual strategic purpose: freeing up cash for important up-front expenditures including advertising time, and superficially boosting the campaign's cash on hand to impress donors and pundits.

  •  Well, you put an awful lot of thought into this (8+ / 0-)

    but I believe you're overthinking things and relying too heavily upon yourtheory.  The truth is there are many different factors for the results to date, and your explanation likely has had little real influence- interesting as it is.  By the way, I don't think Clinton ever stood a chance in Vermont.  As a Vermonter, I've known since last summer that Obama will win here- and win big. I'll be surprised if she gets 35% in Vermont.  Even RI may go for Obama, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he took TX.  Your diary focuses so exclusively on one thing, that it neglects that elections are about a confluence of factors.

    Having said that, it certainly is a fun and thought provoking diary.  I enjoyed it.

    two cheers for democracy

    by ClaryinVT on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 04:24:27 AM PDT

    •  Oh, it certainly is a simplification (3+ / 0-)

      I don't claim that it explains everything. It's more a spotlighting of a single underlying factor -- in my position, a very strong one -- that predisposes the populace to vote for one or another candidate. Obviously, Clinton could lose Texas and/or Ohio if she campaigns incompetently. My point is that they're her states to lose, whereas one would expect Obama to outperform her in, say, Colorado, barring some unforeseen circumstance. (Which he did.)

      The strength of the candidate is always a factor, as is the strength of his or her association with a particular region. One of the reasons why Clinton's grip on New England seems not to be strong is that even though her style is a New England Puritan style, she is based in New York, specifically New York City, which is not a stable launching pad for any kind of nationwide campaign (see also Giuliani, Rudy). And she's not even from New York -- she's from Illinois, by way of Arkansas! Four different regions, one of them with questionable connections to the rest of the country. She's not anybody's native daughter, not even New York's.

      "The great lie of democracy, its essential paradox, is that democracy is first to be sacrificed when its security is at risk." --Ian McDonald

      by Geenius at Wrok on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 04:49:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  We can't take them for granted (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    blue armadillo

    So we have to get to work.

    Keep calling, people.  Keep organizing.

    VT and RI are both very anti-war, so Obama is favored there (but no guarantee).  They are more like rural CT than rural NH or rural NY.

    TX and OH are just up for grabs.

    •  Actually, I'm willing to go out on a limb here (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      mayan, EJP in Maine

      Barring anything extraordinary happening to torpedo Obama's campaign, Vermont WILL go strongly for Obama. No polls, but the amount of money they've raised here is an indication:  Obama has raised over $400,000 in VT, Clinton $47,000.  Agree with you about the importance of continued GOTV efforts, though

      two cheers for democracy

      by ClaryinVT on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 04:38:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I agree with the above. You deserve credit... (6+ / 0-)

    ...for putting serious time and thought into this and, while I may not see every correlation that you do, I appreciate this type of diary -- especially given the woo-haw that passes as diary writing here sometimes.

  •  You assume a static turnout model. (3+ / 0-)

    And I think also have to consider the balances of the various speech groups within the party.

    I'd say you are probably right about Ohio. But in Texas, I think you may be mistaken. The Borderers in Texas are not Democrats. Theyre Republicans. Secondly, while Latino turnout is sure to be high, it will not nearly match that of African-American turnout in Texas. Thats why the delegates are so heavily weighted towards those districts. Thirdly, Texas has the youngest Latino population in the country and Obama has done particularly well among young people of all races, sometimes carrying those under 30 by 5 to 1.

    As for the states, yes I'd agree with those calls although I'd go ahead and put Rhode Island in the pocket for Obama and put Pennsylvania in the pocket for Clinton.

    I doubt it will even go that far though because Obama is going to win in Texas and keep it close enough in Ohio to deny her any real advantages.

    With him from the beginning, with him until the end.

    by brooklynbadboy on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 04:34:16 AM PDT

    •  These are good points (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      empathy, Great Uncle Bulgaria

      and possibly enough for me to call Texas for Obama after all. I didn't consider the party affiliation issue -- in most Borderer states, everyone's a Borderer, whichever party they're in. But I think you're right that Borderers in Texas are more likely to skew Republican, while coastal Southerners are more likely to skew Democratic (either because they're African-American or because they're from old aristocratic stock with a sense of noblesse oblige).

      Still, the Borderer abhorrence of inclusiveness and of talking rather than fighting should not be underestimated as liabilities for Obama.

      "The great lie of democracy, its essential paradox, is that democracy is first to be sacrificed when its security is at risk." --Ian McDonald

      by Geenius at Wrok on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 04:53:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Good diary, food for thought. (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    litho, mayan, Marcus Tullius, HairyTrueMan

    My 2cents:
    TX goes to Obama w. 5 pt margin
    OH to Clinton w. 1-2 pt. margin
    RI to Obama
    VT to Obama
    WY I have no idea.

    "The truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing." The Tao Te Ching

    by hester on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 04:38:34 AM PDT

  •  The Pundits like to slice and dice... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    EJP in Maine

    When Obama is given the time to work his ground game of presenting his message and his authentic self, he transcends all the "artificial" divisions and cultural maps.  He is winning demographics thought not possible by not even thinking about the differences in those demographics. He is winning by empowering Americans.  

    --Country before party--

    by chipoliwog on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 04:38:49 AM PDT

    •  Aloha spirit lifts Obama (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      merrinc, sarashina nikki

      According to Bryan Bender in today's Boston Globe:

      Obama, 46, who lived 14 of his first 18 years here, is seen by many of his fellow Hawaiians as the embodiment of their ancient creed of friendly acceptance and unity that has also become a central theme of his historic bid for the Democratic nomination.

      Hawaiians boast that they have no ethnic majority. And many of them believe the state's numerous nationalities and ethnicities - including native islanders, Chinese, Filipinos, Japanese, and whites such as Obama's mother, who came here from Kansas, and Africans like his father, who came from Kenya - played a crucial role in shaping Obama's unifying message.

  •  great diary-very interesting (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Marcus Tullius

    The only prediction you made that may not come true is PENN. And that is only because, like Californa, Hillary got a really good head start on Obama on setting up her infrastructure there. He'll have to spend 5:1 maybe 6:1 against her there to try and wipe that out for the win. With the pro-Clinton 527's mobilizing right now that seems unlikely. Otherwise very well done. Tipped and rec'd.

    'I don't want any commies in my car. Christians either!' Repo Man

    by Psychotronicman on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 04:40:01 AM PDT

    •  Pennsylvania also has its share of Borderers (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Psychotronicman

      in the Appalachian part of the state. But I don't think that's going to be enough. I'm going to stick to my prediction of an Obama win in Pennsylvania.

      "The great lie of democracy, its essential paradox, is that democracy is first to be sacrificed when its security is at risk." --Ian McDonald

      by Geenius at Wrok on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 04:56:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Obama is "quaker-like" (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Robinswing

    Man, I haven't heard that one before. Don't see a lot of quakers on the Southside, maybe they're there and I just missed them.

  •  I wrote her off on Feb 10th, 2007 (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Ignacio Magaloni, Mia Dolan

    Barack Obama, Springfield Illinois, 2-10-2007

  •  If anything, you've made me want (0+ / 0-)

    to read Albion's Seed -- which has been on my list for some time, but never seems to make it onto my night table.

    Other than that, I can't say I'm convinced by the diary.  First, assuming Fischer's thesis is at all valid, it runs counter to the conclusion that leads your diary.  Both OH and TX fall into regions that by your analysis should be safe Obama territory.

    I know you try to explain that away in the diary, but in doing so you undermine the authority of the text on which you base the analysis.  You may ultimately be right that Obama will have trouble in those two states -- although I doubt it, if we are to believe the current trendlines in the polling -- but it's hard to sustain that would be due to the cultural elements outlined by Fischer.

    For a final point, and I'm handicapped here because I haven't read Fischer, I wonder how nineteenth and early twentieth century immigration waves affect Fischer's regional analysis.  Living here in MA, I can tell you that Puritan culture has been heavily influenced by the Italians and Irish, and even Portuguese and Cape Verdeans, who have come to dominate the population.  All you have to do to realize that is to look at all the small towns with Catholic churches...

    •  Fischer argues that assimilation (0+ / 0-)

      has been a powerful force, and that immigrant groups in each region tend to take on the qualities of that region more than their own cultures influence that region's culture. So, for example, Italians in New England nonetheless end up more "Puritan" than Italians in Philadelphia, who end up more "Quaker." (That's his argument; personally, I'm not sure how strongly it applies to the Irish. :-))

      Where in Mass? I'm living in Cambridge. Moved here from Chicago, and boy, can I feel the difference.

      "The great lie of democracy, its essential paradox, is that democracy is first to be sacrificed when its security is at risk." --Ian McDonald

      by Geenius at Wrok on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 04:59:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I look out my window (0+ / 0-)

        and I see the Razor...

        Well, not really.  But I could walk to the stadium if I wanted a decent hike, and drunks drive by on gameday asking for directions.  (I live on a side street, about a mile away from any artery that even goes close to Gillette.)

        I'm also transplanted.  I'm a Madison/Milwaukee boy, myself.

      •  I moved here expecting to find (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Ignacio Magaloni

        Puritanism in all its native flower.  I was surprised to find Irish/Italian political machines and a heavily Catholic culture.

        When I went back and rethought my history books, things made a bit more sense.

        A couple years back I was doing some research on the Jacksonian era, and I was very surprised with how industrialization transformed political discourse around here.  I'll read Fischer -- I loved his Washington's Crossing -- but I'm skeptical going in.  I'm not sure his model is dynamic enough to explain contemporary political culture.

        •  His electoral maps are pretty convincing (0+ / 0-)

          In the last chapter, he examines every presidential election up through 1988. I'd have liked to see his take on 1992, 1996 and 2000, but one can't have everything.

          When you think about it, 2000 was pretty wacky: a guy from a Borderer family running as a Puritan and a guy from a Puritan family running as a Borderer.

          "The great lie of democracy, its essential paradox, is that democracy is first to be sacrificed when its security is at risk." --Ian McDonald

          by Geenius at Wrok on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 05:31:27 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  You called PA for Obama? (0+ / 0-)

    and still give Clinton a shot?

    Show Me Da Numbers.  If you can't come up with Clinton having more pledged delegates before the Convention - then play with the numbers until you can.

    Flowers Bloom for my Ex - though Honeybees are pretty cool too.

    by Yoshi En Son on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 04:50:33 AM PDT

    •  Yoshi, if you follow my comments and my diaries (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      funluvn1

      you'll have seen that I'm an Obama supporter through and through. So spare me the pissy attitude, please.

      "The great lie of democracy, its essential paradox, is that democracy is first to be sacrificed when its security is at risk." --Ian McDonald

      by Geenius at Wrok on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 05:00:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Err.. don't get so defensive. (0+ / 0-)

        I KNOW you are supporting Obama..  But I still don't see a Delegate distribution which doesnt give Pennsylvania to Clinton, yet gives her a winning strategy.  

        So, as I said above - if you want to state your argument that Clinton has a viable path, which doesn't include Pennsylvania - I'd love to see the delegate breakdown.

        Flowers Bloom for my Ex - though Honeybees are pretty cool too.

        by Yoshi En Son on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 07:48:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Connecticut had the unique "Lieberman Experience" (0+ / 0-)

    and there is a moderate 10-20% of people who voted for Lieberman who now very much regret it.  Hillary's vote YES on Kyl-Lieberman (contrasted by Obama's NO) I think made many people who were leaning heavily for Hillary change their mind at the last minute.  Hillary's alignment with Lieberman as a Democratic War Hawk didn't play as well as she had assumed it was.   The difficult part was just getting the word out -- once voters knew three was a difference, they switched allegiance rather quickly.  Lieberman has left a very sour taste in the mouth of people in CT -- quite a few (who voted for Lieberman in the general) now feel quite betrayed.

  •  Fascinating stuff. (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    funluvn1

    I thoroughly enjoyed reading it, although I must admit that I am a little confused.

    BTW, I think you can call RI for Clinton. CT and RI are  on different planets. I would look for similar results to Massachusetts.

    The way to see by Faith is to shut the Eye of Reason. -Benjamin Franklin

    by HairyTrueMan on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 04:56:53 AM PDT

  •  I'm not sure about each individual state (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    mndan, litho

    But I do think it's safe to call America for Barack. That's about all that matters.

  •  Wisconsin doesn't count because they talk funny (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    litho, DemocraticOz

    See, I knew Mark Penn needed an excuse...

    fivethirtyeight.com: electoral projections done right.

    by poblano on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 05:56:53 AM PDT

    •  Anyone can speak Wisconsin (0+ / 0-)

      Pinch the end of your nose with your fingers, speak in a nasal voice.  Say daughter, daughter, oughter, how, cow, now -- there ya go.

      "Getting elected is the only true moral imperative that politicians believe in." -- Anon

      by zackamac on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 01:36:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Brilliant (0+ / 0-)

    but the trump card is the growing perception of Obama's strength and Clinton's weakness. Still,let's not let up.

    Say something you don't agree with!

    by Christian Coulon on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 07:15:42 AM PDT

  •  I think this map may work just as well (0+ / 0-)

    "Getting elected is the only true moral imperative that politicians believe in." -- Anon

    by zackamac on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 01:44:11 PM PDT

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