Daily Kos

Time for a Reality Check on Immigration

Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 05:55:34 AM PDT

These have been heady times for those in the migrant-rights movement.

Starting back in November with the failure of anti-immigrant campaigns to resonate with the electorate, an apparent sea change was assumed to be taking place.  Much ink and many pixels were expended speculating on the presumed death of the "immigration issue" as a motivating force in the US political scene.

From the left, the progressive blogosphere finally found the courage to voice pro-immigrant positions after nearly two years of bowing to the conventional wisdom coming out of Washington that immigration was a "third rail" not to be touched.

From the right, pundits and the chattering classes warned that to continue stoking the flames of anti-immigrant sentiments was like beating the proverbial dead horse, and would yield no rewards.

Over the following months things looked even brighter.

After starting a presidential campaign where each candidate tried their best to "out Tancredo, Tancredo" on immigration matters, one by one the Republican contenders who put their eggs in the anti-immigrant basket fell by the wayside. In the end, the only three standing were the party's only bona fide pro-immigrant candidate, and two candidates whose recent conversion to the anti-immigrant camp was questionable at best.  With McCain's presumptive triumph, even Huckabee's and Romney's road to Damascus conversion to Tancredoism seems to have hurt them far more than it helped.

On the Democratic side, the top contenders were quick to finally pick up on these subtle cues - once it became obvious to even the least politically savvy that they need not fear the immigration boogieman.  

To his credit, Mr. Obama was early to the pro-migrant party, and supported driver's licenses for undocumented immigrants even as his opponent waffled and tried to triangulate her position due to the nagging "third rail" fear that so haunted the DLC. He also came out early and pledged to take up comprehensive reform within the first one hundred days of his administration and voiced strong support for the DREAM Act. But lately, even the ever cautious Mrs. Clinton has spoken out against immigration raids, and promised to curtail them, voiced tepid disapproval of the great wall project, and vowed to join Obama's pledge to give the nation real reform within one hundred days of taking office.

All of this has been music to the ears of those in the pro-migrant movement.

In both the tradition media and blogtopia, pro-migrant voices have started to break through.

To varying degrees, both NCLR's Janet Murguia and "Democracy Now's" Amy Goodman and Juan Gonzalez managed to issue live smack-downs on anti-immigrant powerhouse, Lou Dobb ( In Murguia's case, on Lou's own show). They called him out not only for his misleading and unbalanced presentation of the issue, but also his embrace of some of the most virulent racists engaged in the anti-immigrant movement. If this was not clear evidence that David could smite the anti-immigrant Goliath .... nothing was.

On the web, pro-migrant, Latino, and human-rights blogs and web sites are proliferating and finally gaining long deserved attention and recognition. Outreach and cooperation between the traditional pro-immigrant activist organizations has reached a near fever pitch as they attempt to put together the large-scale, organized, effort that will be essential in moving meaningful reform in the new, more immigrant-friendly, atmosphere all anticipate is just around the corner.

At least that's what we've all been telling each other for the last few months

But just yesterday, once again reality strikes us in the face:

House OKs seizing vehicles from illegal immigrants

A bill that would allow police to seize cars from illegal immigrants was approved by the House Thursday.

Bill sponsor Rep. James Mills (R-Gainesville) repeatedly told House members Thursday the measure would protect Georgia citizens from the "epidemic" of illegal immigration. "The state of Georgia's door is being kicked down," Mills said. Immigrants are coming from "Iraq, Iran, Irania(sic), Jordan. We don't know where they're from," Mills said.

The measure passed 104 to 51, and will move to the Senate for consideration.

The bill would allow police to seize any vehicle involved in a traffic violation or accident if it's driven by an illegal immigrant. That includes rented and leased vehicles if the owner knew, or should have known, the driver was an illegal immigrant. It also includes bank-owned cars if the interest-holder actually knew the driver was an illegal immigrant.

The bill prompted a healthy floor debate. Some legislators asked how police would be able to determine whether a driver was an illegal immigrant during a traffic stop. Some wondered if it would create an atmosphere for racial profiling of drivers who police think might be illegal immigrants.

The legislation is part of a package of about 10 Republican proposals introduced this legislative session aimed at discouraging illegal immigration in Georgia.

AJC

Week after week - month after month - states and municipalities around the country take up similar anti-immigrant measures.  And with each one passed, the lives of millions of people are changed - undocumented migrants, legal residents, and anyone else who just happens to look "foreign" or rolls their r's  just a little too prominently when stopped at a traffic stop, applies for a job, or tries to rent an apartment.

"The legislation is part of a package of about 10 Republican proposals introduced this legislative session aimed at discouraging illegal immigration in Georgia."

And herein lays the problem.

In some ways we have deluded ourselves.

By focusing on what seems to be the "big picture" of the failure of anti-immigrant policies on the national stage, we have lost sight of the most important fact.

As the late Tip O'Neil pointed out ...All politics is local....and when it comes to immigration and migrant issues, it's on the local level that much of this battle will need to be fought.

Yet, as a new study shows, it is not the economics or demographics of a given state or city that will determine how rabidly anti-immigrant it's laws and ordinances will be .... It's what political party controls it.

Our analysis suggests that the restrictionist responses of local governments to undocumented immigration is largely unrelated to demographic pressures—whether it be the growth of recent immigrants, or the proportion of Spanish-dominant households. They are also unrelated to the political empowerment of Latinos, as places with large proportions of Latino residents and citizens are no more or no less likely to propose legislation whether it be restrictionist or pro-immigrant. Instead, we find that political factors are more important, most notably partisan composition and the politicization of national immigration reform legislation at the local level.

...One of the strongest explanations for restrictionist versus "pro-immigrant" proposals is the proportion of Republicans and Democrats in the county. Controlling for demographic characteristics, Republican areas are twice as likely to propose restrictionist ordinances, and half as likely to propose "pro-immigrant" ones.

Even stronger effects can be found for the actual passage of such legislation. Other factors, such as the growth of the Latino population and the size of linguistically-isolated Spanish-speaking households, were not associated with a greater likelihood of proposing or passing restrictionist legislation. Thus, demographic factors are not as important as political factors in accounting for ordinances passed by local governments related to unauthorized immigration, either pro or con.

... Cities in Republican areas are about twice as likely as those in Democratic areas to propose restrictionist legislation, and four times as likely to have passed such measures. On the passage of pro-immigrant legislation, Republican areas are about half as likely to consider or pass such measures (another way to say this is that Democrat areas are about twice as likely as Republican areas to consider and pass pro-immigrant measures).

Immigration Policies Go Local: The Varying Responses Of Local Governments To Undocumented Immigration

So while we have been working hard to change the hearts and minds of the US public, trying to counter the lies and misinformation proliferated by the anti-immigrant right,  it comes down to mere politics as to whether the lives of  millions are better or worse.

Of course, on the grand scale, we've always known the true enemy.

From October of 2005 when Frank Luntz first published "Respect for the Law & Economic Fairness: Illegal Immigration Prevention" and laid down the Republican battle plan for its anti-immigrant campaign, the handwriting's been on the wall.

This has always been a debate rooted in political machinations and calculations. It plays upon the fear, racism and bigotry that permeate the US collective psyche ...but it's not organic, springing from the roots of bigotry and discontent ...but rather it's been manufactured and nurtured by one political party to be used as a weapon against the other by feeding upon the worst instincts of the American people and appealing to their inner demons rather than better angles.

Less than two years after Luntz's blueprint was published, the plan was in full effect.

As of July 2, 2007, no fewer than 1404 pieces of legislation related to immigrants and immigration had been introduced among the 50 state legislatures. Of these bills, 182 bills became law in 43 states. Four bills have been vetoed by the Governor.

State legislators have introduced roughly two and a half times more bills in 2007 than in 2006. The number of enactments from 2006 (84) has more than doubled to 170 in 2007.

Several states are still in session so there could be additional legislation related to immigrants later this year.

NCSL

Yet for many of us, the disappointments and disillusionment with politics as usual have prevented us from recognizing this clear red/blue divide on this issue. Surely, the Democratic Party's own inability to seize the moral high ground on this issue has not made it easy to see the clear lines of demarcation. Additionally, red state Dems like Heath Shuler, who so readily work in the anti-immigrant camp, cloud the distinctions.

But, when taken as whole  ... the path forward is clear.

If the pro-migrant movement is to accomplish anything in the long-term, it must start to address the anti-immigrant movement at the local as well as the national level.

We cannot be satisfied by what appears to be progress on the national stage. We can't be satisfied with the apparent growth of a fledgling pro-migrant ground swell. We can't be content with our own efforts to build a movement, or mobilize or give voice to the Latino community, or engage labor, or reach out to progressives. We must start to truly put together a real new majority, a majority made up of all those groups and so many more.

We need a new majority that can take over the statehouses, city councils, and mayors offices across this country, and not just replace the occupants of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, or Congress.   We need a new majority that can reclaim the liberal, humanitarian ideals that once marked the Democratic Party ... take it over, and then drag it, screaming and kicking, into a new 21st century.  

Because if we don't ...we'll just get more of this:

Tags: immigration, Rescued (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 46 comments

  •  outstanding diary, Duke (8+ / 0-)

    I can't recommend this highly enough. Thank you for keeping on this beat, it's an important issue and it will become even more critical as these immigrant-bashing and xenophobic policies grow deeper roots.

    Btw, I was researching the ICE and its abusive policies the other day when I came across the testimony from Feb. 13 at the House subcommittee on Immigration about ICE warrantless raids and commando-style raids. Have you seen that testimony? The eyewitness accounts are riveting, and although what they're describing does not appear to be all that unusual (sadly), it's refreshing at least that Congress is hearing about it.

  •  democrats need to understand the issue before... (7+ / 0-)

    they can define the differences. democrats have yet to put their heads together and think about this issue and recognize its relationship to the issue of trade (and trade agreements). it appears to me that this has not happened because a full investigation of the issue would expose the flaws in pro-globalization/free traders arguments about nafta and trade with china.

    yoo broke the law, now the law breaks you

    by joe shikspack on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 07:14:19 AM PDT

    •  It is difficult to teach thjose who are already (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      divineorder

      working an 80 hr work week.  They do not have the time and the more illegal workers there are the more the work week grows for American workers. Illegal immigration or legal indentured servitude destroys wages.  And as wages sink the work week grows.  And as the work week grows the time to learn shrinks.  It is a conservative formula that has been working for centuries.

      "I know no safe depository for the ultimate power of society but the people themselves" -- Jefferson

      by TheTrucker on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:55:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Anti-immigration is a losing battle (4+ / 0-)

    At this point, regardless of anyone's views on immigration, the fact that illegal immigrants count for purposes of congressional representation and electoral votes means that it's always a losing battle.  Anyone who perceives this as a problem to be fixed needs to start by fixing the Constitution.  

    Everything else is a smokescreen.

    •  wow...this view is breathtaking (0+ / 0-)

      What needs to be done Constitutionally?  Okay...perhaps the census needs to be revised, or at least it's count should be treated differently.

      But really...people at the local level just need to show up at city council meetings and let it be known that they want their laws enforced...by their own police...and state governors need to know that they can't just punt to the Feds.

      Pull over a drunk driver...ask him where's he's born.  If he says Mexico, ask him for proof of citizenship.  Doesn't have it?  Greyhound to Tijuana.  If he says El Salvador, plane trip to San Salvador.  It's cheap.

      Visit a roofing contractor with a large job here in Oregon.  Climb up on the ladder and catch the employees before they can scramble down to the ground.  Ask for some papers, and have a truck waiting below.

      Visit just about any construction site, or manufacturing business, or transportation company,...really..any job that used to be solidly union...and you will find undocumented workers.  You know it...I know it...and the Labor Department CERTAINLY knows it...   That's why they don't visit them.

      It would be nice if regular Americans did, though...just to see where their jobs have gone...

      This diarist won't...

      He's too busy trying to pretend nothing's going on here...and that you should all just "move along".

  •  good to see you back ... (6+ / 0-)

    ... posting these great diaries.

    The opportunities for civil rights abuses under this nonsensical law of confiscating vehicles are endless, and yes, that seems to be the Republican way.  They are never interested in serving the public good.  They are only interested in power, plain and simple.

    •  second that (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Duke1676, Nightprowlkitty, vox humana

      all the Citizen Orange and Migra Matters posters should be commended for their excellent diaries. thank you, Duke1676, for this outstanding post.

    •  civil rights abuse? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      divineorder

      they can't legally drive, why do they need a car.  They are here ILLEGALLY!

      Token conservative

      by dookphan on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:55:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  read the diary again ... (0+ / 0-)

        ... as well as my comment, which speaks of the opportunity for civil rights abuses under these bad laws.

        What makes you think the consequences of these kinds of laws will be limited to undocumented workers?

      •  It's theft. (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Nightprowlkitty

        Taking without compensation. Unconstitutional. Read the Fifth Amendment.

        -4.25, -4.87 "If the truth were self-evident, there would be no need for eloquence." -- Cicero

        by HeyMikey on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 12:19:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Prove you are legal, RIGHT NOW. (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Duke1676, Nightprowlkitty

        At this moment, prove you are a citizen, legal immigrant or non-immigrant.

        If you were born in the US you will require photo ID and a birth certificate or a passport... If your state has passed REAL ID-like laws to combat illegal-voting and illegal immigrants a birth certificate is insufficient and only a passport is proof of citizenship.

        So, do you have a passport in your pocket? No? Then your car was just seized for a driving infraction because you are unable to prove legal residency in the US.

        Have a nice walk, "citizen".

        (Of course that's silly. Only Asians, Latinos and people with funny accents can be illegal immigrants.)

        --- "opendna is high and just makin' shit up outta nowhere." - greenskeeper

        by opendna on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 04:40:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I have, and always have had (0+ / 0-)

          a certified copy of my birth certificate.  Don't you?  I also have a social security card...a drivers license...no passport...but three outa four aint bad...and it's nothing I haven't had for years.

          WTF are you whining about?

          When I lived overseas...I carried my visa with me at all times...all times...you know why?

          It was required.  And even more importantly...from time to time I was even asked to show it.

          Can you fucking even imagine that?  Being asked to show your visa?  How fucking racist was that?  Just because I was white and travelling in Central America?

  •  Politics determines policy? What determines (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    TheTrucker

    politics?  Seems like we have cause and effect mixed up here:

    ... Cities in Republican areas are about twice as likely as those in Democratic areas to propose restrictionist legislation, and four times as likely to have passed such measures. On the passage of pro-immigrant legislation, Republican areas are about half as likely to consider or pass such measures (another way to say this is that Democrat areas are about twice as likely as Republican areas to consider and pass pro-immigrant measures).

    Immigration Policies Go Local: The Varying Responses Of Local Governments To Undocumented Immigration

    So while we have been working hard to change the hearts and minds of the US public, trying to counter the lies and misinformation proliferated by the anti-immigrant right,  it comes down to mere politics as to whether the lives of  millions are better or worse.

     Living in a very republican locality, it is clear to me that these folk elect republicans because that's the way they feel about matters.  The republicans then carry out the wishes of those who elected them.  We will see change only when the hearts and minds of the prople electing republicans are changed.  What do you mean  that it comes down to mere politics?

    An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the moment. It stands or falls on its own merits.

    by don mikulecky on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:01:49 PM PDT

    •  cause and effect (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      mariachi mama, wa ma, Fireshadow

      it is clear to me that these folk elect republicans because that's the way they feel about matters.

      This would be true if in fact the anti-immigrant sentiments came from the grassroots up ... but this is not the case. How is it that this issue became such a hot topic in the matter of just about a year?

      The answer is simple.

      The Republicans tapped into a feeling of powerlessness caused by the economic and societal  uncertainty brought on by a combination of global economic policies, regressive tax policies, deregulation, and government mismanagement that they themselves instituted. They then intentionally went about misdirecting this underlying angst towards the nearest available easy target.

      It's all smoke and mirrors.

      Can't afford decent health care .... it must be because undocumented immigrants abuse the system and get "free" health care.

      Real wages haven't grown and the average working class or middle class family can't make ends meet ...it must be because undocumented immigrants steal our jobs and drive down wages.

      Our schools can't effectively educate our children to compete in the 21st centuray ...it must be because our education system is over burdened with the children of the undocumented.

      You pay more in taxes while the receiving less and less services.... it must be because undocumented immigrants don't contribute to the tax base and over utilize social services intended for citizens.

      and the list goes on and on.

      check out this diary for a more complete explanation of exactly how Republican strategists and policy makers intentionally fabricated this whole issue out of whole cloth.

      Of course the base is now demanding that something be done about the situation ... they've been convinced that it is the root cause of their most pressing concerns.

      •  I am speaking from my experience living (0+ / 0-)

        in a very republican area.  Are you saying that I am incorrect?

        An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the moment. It stands or falls on its own merits.

        by don mikulecky on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:36:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  yep (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Nightprowlkitty

          not so much that your wrong it's just that those feelings were manufactured from the top down not the way you espouse.

          •  Having grown up in Chicago and being (0+ / 0-)

            third generation on my mother's side, I have to differ with you.  Anti immigrant feeling is nothing new.  I just posted a diary about the garment workers in NYC.  There it goes at least as far  back as 1857.

            An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the moment. It stands or falls on its own merits.

            by don mikulecky on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 11:45:48 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  if you look at the polling on this issue (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Nightprowlkitty

          going back three of four years you'd see that it was a nonexistent entity before the Republican leadership started ginning up the issue. Luntz's work is actually brilliant in that it identifies the exact methods and language that would be needed to make this a major national issue. ...and since that time, his words and phrases have flowed unencumbered from Republican talking heads mouths. Yes, the Republican rank and file now clammer for these policies....but they weren't doing so until noise machine ratcheted up the issue.    

      •  free health care (0+ / 0-)

        The free health care that illegal immigrants isn't free at all...

        All across wide swaths of the border, Mexicans have travelled across from Mexico to nearby hospitals for medical services which aren't available to them in their home country, availed themselves of those services, and then disappeared back into the country which took so little care of them.

        Indeed...their health care was free.  Unpaid for.

        But the cost to border communitees here in the United States has been immense over the past two decades.  Countless hospitals have closed...gone bankrupt..over the stretch of California toTexas among border communities.

        The upshot of that is this...Americans can go to Mexico for emergency medical services...they must drive longer miles farther into the interior of the US for available services.  What used to be their local source has been plowed assunder.

        Do a google search on it...or just read the Arizona Sun archives.  

        Poor people pay the cost for factory owners...and they don't reap equal rewards in "lower costs"...nor does the tax burden equal out.

        No matter what they say

  •  When a country fears those (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Duke1676, Nightprowlkitty

    who want to be a part of it and who long to contribute to its economy and who yearn for its former message of liberty and justice for all, it begins to die. It ceases to be able to react to new crises - to adapt.

    Keep hope alive!

    So glad this diary was rescued.

    The law is slacked and judgment doth never go forth: the wicked compass about the righteous and wrong judgment proceedeth - Habakkuk 1:4

    by vox humana on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:06:58 PM PDT

  •  More lying from the left. (2+ / 1-)

    Recommended by:
    divineorder, Philly Quaker
    Hidden by:
    opendna

    It is really simple, people.  There are these people called immigrants that come to the UNited States as LEGAALLY, bringing their immediat familes. They come here to be Americans.  THAT is an immigrant.

    Then we have migrant workers that come here illegally or legally, laboring for substandard wages and sending their earnings back to Mexico and out of the US economy. The illegal migrant workers do not have any investment in US health care, US Social Security, the US educational system or in any form of future here in the USA. They are here to send money back to Mexico and build a future there.

    I will not bother to ask the estrogen crowd what they think happens to the money that flows back to Mexico. Because being total moonbat maternalistic nurturing feel gooders they probably believe that it ends up in a bank account for the migrant and his family or that Santa ends up with it.  But rest assured it does not re-enter the USA in any way that will create opportunities for middle class Americans. Most of it actually ends up in a foreign bank account (like in Europe) under the name of the Mexican plutocrats and Mexican government "officials".  Another large piece of it ends up in the coffers of the financial sector of the USA that "consolidated" the Mexican farms.

    I am all for INCREASING LEGAL IMMIGRATION. I am all for amnesty and GREEN CARDS (not indentured servant visas) for the people already here.  So take your racist horseshit and stick it. It's about American wages and that is all it is about.  And if you think that you can stick it to the real working people of the USA with your nuturing goodie two shoes crap then you will be in for a very rude awakening come election time. When Joe Sixpack enters that voting booth he is thinking about HIS wife, HIS kids, and HIS mortgage. And all of that depends on HIS wages.  He is NOT thinking about kindness and sweetness and light and until he is making a decent living he is not going to think about such nice "luxuries".  We will be having a depression right on schedule for the election and if you think that pampering illegals is a good idea then yer only hope is a brain transplant.

    You can do all the snivling and hand wringing you want over how unfair the ""**IMMIGRANTS**"" (lie) are treated and it will simply put a lot more Republicans into office.  You people are really good at reversing cause and effect.  It never occurs to you that the Republicans are in charge locally BECAUSE at tne local level they do not support wage destroying illegal immigrants; that they are making those horrendous laws because their constituents WANT them to make those laws. And meanwhile, at the national and corporate level (the DC lobby level) the big boys are enjoying the cheap labor and laughing all the way to the bank.

    "I know no safe depository for the ultimate power of society but the people themselves" -- Jefferson

    by TheTrucker on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 09:47:40 PM PDT

    •  ignorance needs enemies (5+ / 0-)

      a post this dumb is hard to refute becaue the poor fool has everything wrong. And then it calls others "racist horseshit". This is either a redneck snark or it's actually the dumbest post on this subject I've seen. It sounds like those rednecks did when they opposed civil rights and said all other working people did too. It's wrong here just as it was wrong then and mainly for the same reasons. Thetrucker has gone way off the road and ended up out in far right field with the david dukes of this world.

      •  Lazy you, "a post this dumb is hard to refute"... (0+ / 0-)

        Damn,

        After 41 days traveling by auto in Mexico I had come here hoping for some real dialogue on the issue of illegal immigration.

        Help me out, I thought Trucker was right on, except for the name calling, which was just about all you rejoined him in,  and you can be sure I am not a racist or a republican.  

        The last speech I remember Barbara Jordan giving was on legal immigration. Part of our great values as well...

        Come on, give it a point by point rebuttal... if you are able...

        •  oster doesn't warrent a point by point response (6+ / 0-)

          He's had his points refuted numerous times in numerous diaries. Yet he continues to post the same misinformed, factually incorrect, and frankly right-wing talking points continuously.

          It's about American wages and that is all it is about.  And if you think that you can stick it to the real working people of the USA with your nuturing goodie two shoes crap then you will be in for a very rude awakening come election time. When Joe Sixpack enters that voting booth he is thinking about HIS wife, HIS kids, and HIS mortgage. And all of that depends on HIS wages.  He is NOT thinking about kindness and sweetness and light and until he is making a decent living he is not going to think about such nice "luxuries".  We will be having a depression right on schedule for the election and if you think that pampering illegals is a good idea then yer only hope is a brain transplant.

          He falls right into the Frank Luntz inspired thinking of blaming undocumented workers for everything from wage suppression to the coming economic meltdown.

          How happy this must make the right-wing . ..All the negative ramifications of their failed economic policies laid at the feet of the undocumented...their plan has worked perfectly, and   the poster and those who spout the same ignorant talking points are the proof of that.

          Like I said ...he warrants no response.

          But I'll supply you one or two:

          First read this diary for background information and a plan to fix this mess.

          and then read some of these to see just how uninformed the poster's thinking really is:

          • JOB LOSS:  

            Comparative Advantages and Gains from Immigration
            by Giovanni Peri (University of California, Davis and NBER), Chad Sparber (Colgate University) April, 2007, (Immigrants have little effect on jobs of US high school dropouts. Foreign and native-born workers with similarly low educational attainment in fact compliment each other in the workforce rather than compete. Using forty years of data the study looked at the actual tasks performed by each class of workers to see what jobs were being done by native-born workers as opposed to foreign born workers.The study found that foreign born workers perform more manual and physical tasks, while native-born workers do tasks that are more language-intensive and interactive, and that native-born workers benefit from this specialization)

          • JOB LOSS:  

            The Diffusion of Mexican Immigrants During the 1990s: Explanations and Impacts
            by David Card, Ethan G. Lewis, NBER Working Paper No. 11552, Issued in August 2005  (low-skilled Mexican immigrants are readily absorbed into the workforce and have little effect on low-skilled native workers.)

          • JOB LOSS:  

            Growth in the Foreign-Born Workforce and Employment of the Native Born
            by Rakesh Kochhar, Associate Director for Research, Pew Hispanic Center, August 2006, (no relationship between the growth in the foreign-born population and employment outcomes for native-born workers)

          • JOB LOSS:  

            The Diffusion of Mexican Immigrants During the 1990s: Explanations and Impacts
            by David Card, Ethan G. Lewis, NBER Working Paper No. 11552, Issued in August 2005  (low-skilled Mexican immigrants are readily absorbed into the workforce and have little effect on low-skilled native workers.)

          • WAGES

            Task Specialization, Comparative Advantages, and the Effects of Immigration on Wages, by Giovanni Peri (University of California, Davis and NBER), Chad Sparber (Colgate University). August 2007, National Bureau Of Economic Research, Working Paper No. 13389 (Looking at data for the 50 US states (plus the District of Columbia) from 1960 to 2000 the report shows that foreign-born workers specialize in occupations that require manual tasks such as cleaning, cooking, and building. Immigration causes natives — who have a better understanding of local networks, rules, customs, and language — to pursue jobs requiring interactive tasks such as coordinating, organizing, and communicating. Simulations show that this increased specialization mitigated negative wage consequences of immigration for less-educated native-born workers, especially in states with large immigration flows.)

          • WAGES & RENTS

            The Effects of Immigration on U.S. Wages and Rents: A General Equilibrium Approach, by Gianmarco I.P. Ottaviano, (University of Bologna, FEEM and CEPR), Giovanni Peri, (UC Davis and NBER),  Sept, 2007,  Centre for Economic Policy Research (This paper documents a strong positive correlation of immigration flows with changes in average wages and average house rents for native residents across U.S. states.. Separating the effects of immigrants on natives of different schooling levels we find positive effects on the wages and rents of highly educated and small effects on the wages (negative) and rents (positive) of less educated. We propose a model where natives and immigrants of three different education levels interact in production in a central district and live in the surrounding region. In equilibrium the inflow of immigrants has a positive productive effect on natives due to complementarieties in production as well as a positive competition effect on rents. The model calibrated and simulated with U.S.-states data matches most of the estimated effects of immigrants on wages and rents of natives in the period 1990-2005.)

          • WAGES & RENTS

            How Immigration Affects U.S. Cities , by David Card, UC Berkeley, June 2007, Centre for Economic Research and Analysis of Migration, Discussion Paper ,CDP No 11/07  (This paper describes the effects of immigration on overall population growth and the skill composition of cities, focusing on the connection between immigrant inflows and the relative number of less-skilled workers in the local population. The labor market impacts of immigrant arrivals can be offset by outflows of natives and earlier generations of immigrants. Empirically, however, these offsetting flows are small, so most cities with higher rates of immigration have experienced overall population growth and a rising share of the less-skilled. These supply shifts are associated with a modest widening of the wage gap between more and less-skilled natives, coupled with a positive effect on average native wages. Beyond the labor market, immigrant arrivals also affect rents and housing prices, government revenues and expenses, and the composition of neighborhoods and schools. The effect on rents is the same magnitude as the effect on average wages, implying that the average "rent burden" (the ratio of rents to incomes) is roughly constant. The local fiscal effects of increased immigration also appear to be relatively small.)

          • WAGES:

            How Immigrants Affect California Employment and Wages
            by Giovanni Peri, University of California- Davis, Public Policy Institute of California, February, 2007 (studying 40 years of data, report finds the flow of immigrants into California has helped increase wages and job opportunities for native-born workers)

          • WAGES:  

            Rethinking the Effects of Immigration on Wages
            by Gianmarco Ottaviano and Giovanni Peri, NBER Summer Institute, August 2006 (There is a positive and significant effect of immigration on the average wage of U.S.-born workers)

          • WAGES:  

            Is the New Immigration Really So Bad?
            by David Card, Department of Economics, UC Berkeley, January 2005 (wages of native dropouts are not effected by the supply of less-educated foreign workers)

          • WAGES:  

            Rethinking the Gains from Immigration: Theory and Evidence from the U.S.
            by Gianmarco I.P. Ottaviano, Giovanni Peri,  NBER Working Paper No. 11672, Issued in October 2005 (overall immigration generates a large positive effect on the average wages of U.S.-born workers)

          • CRIME:  

            The Myth of Immigrant Criminality and the Paradox of Assimilation: Incarceration Rates among Native and Foreign-Born Men
            by By Rubén G. Rumbaut, of the University of California – Irvine, Walter A. Ewing PhD., Immigration Policy Center, Immigration Policy Center, March 2007 (studying 30 years of data, the report finds immigrants have the lowest rates of imprisonment for criminal convictions of all ethnic/racial groups and have led to overall lowered crime rates in many US cities. Criminality increases with each successive generation as immigrant children assimilate into US society)

          • CRIME:  

            Debunking the Myth of Immigrant Criminality: Imprisonment Among First- and Second-Generation Young Men
            by By Rubén G. Rumbaut, of the University of California – Irvine, June 2006 (immigrants have the lowest rates of imprisonment for criminal convictions in American society)

          • HEALTHCARE:  

            What Accounts For Differences In The Use Of Hospital Emergency Departments Across U.S. Communities?
            by Peter Cunningham, a senior fellow at the Center for Studying Health System Change in Washington, D.C., July 2006 (immigrants use Hospital Emergency Rooms at far lower rates than US natives and are not major factor in rising healthcare costs)

          • TAXES:  

            Taxing Undocumented Immigrants: Separate, Unequal and Without Representation
            by Francine J Lipman, Professor of Law Chapman University - George L. Argyros School of Business and Economics,  Harvard  Latino Law Review, Spring 2006 (each year undocumented immigrants add billions of dollars in sales, excise, property, income and payroll taxes, including Social Security, Medicare and unemployment taxes, to federal, state and local coffers. Hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrants go out of their way to file annual federal and state income tax returns.)

          • COST OF SERVICES:  

            UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS IN TEXAS: A Financial Analysis of the Impact to the State Budget and Economy
            by Carole Keeton Strayhorn, Texas Comptroller, December 2006 (The Comptroller’s report estimates that undocumented immigrants in Texas generate more taxes and other revenue than the state spends on them.)

          • LANGUAGE/ASSIMILATION:

            "Linguistic Life Expectancies: Immigrant Language Retention in Southern California"
            by Frank D. Bean, University of California, Irvine, Rubén G. Rumbaut, University of California, Irvine, and Douglas S. Massey, Princeton University,  Population and Development Review, Sept. 2006, (Today's immigrants assimilate linguistically at the same rate as previous immigrant groups, mother tongues is lost by third generation)

          • DEMOGRAPHICS:  

            Size and Characteristics of the Unauthorized Migrant Population in the U.S.
            by Jeffrey S. Passel, Senior Research Associate, Pew Hispanic Center, April 2006 (demographic study of undocumented population)

          • DEMOGRAPHICS:

            Approximate Size of the Undocumented Population By Congressional District, American Immigration Law Foundation, Immigration Policy Brief, October, 2006

          • DEMOGRAPHICS:

            2005 American Community Survey and Census Data on the Foreign Born by State, Migration Policy Institute. (updated with 2006 data)

          • DEMOGRAPHICS:  

            Today We March, Tomorrow We Vote: The Untapped Power of over 14 Million Potential New Immigrant Voters in 2008
            by Joshua Hoyt & Fred Tsao, Illinois Coalition for Immigrant & Refugee Rights; June 2006 (This report finds that there are 14.25 million potential voters among legal immigrants who are currently eligible to naturalize and the 16 - 24 year old U.S. born children of immigrants.)

          • DEMOGRAPHICS:  

            Mexican-Born Persons in the US Civilian Labor Force
            by Jeanne Batalova-MPI Policy Analyst , Migration Policy Institute; November 2006 (Using the data from the Census Bureau's 2006 Current Population Survey, this Fact Sheet examines demographic and labor market characteristics of Mexican-born workers and compares them to those of all foreign-born as well as native-born workers.)

          • DEMOGRAPHICS:  

            A Statistical Portrait of the Foreign-Born Population at Mid-Decade
            by Richard Fry and by Shirin Hakimzadeh, Pew Hispanic Center; October 2006 (statistical profile of the foreign born population is based on Pew Hispanic Center tabulations of the Census Bureau's 2005 American Community Survey.)

          • STATISTICS:  

            2005 Yearbook of Immigration Statistics
            Office of Immigration Statistics
            November 2006, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY (Statistics on all Immigration data for the year 2005.) Summaries

          • STATISTICS:  

            2006 Yearbook of Immigration Statistics
            Office of Immigration Statistics
            November 2007, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY (Statistics on all Immigration data for the year 2006.) Summaries

          • RACISM:  

            Extremists Declare 'Open Season' on Immigrants: Hispanics Target of Incitement and Violence
            Anti Defamation League, May 23, 2006, (white supremacists, neo-Nazis and other racists have attempted to co-opt and exploit the controversy over immigration to further their agenda)

          • BORDER SECURITY:  

            The "Funnel Effect" &  Recovered Bodies of Unauthorized Migrants Processed by the Pima County Office of the Medical Examiner, 1990-2005
            By Raquel Rubio-Goldsmith, M. Melissa McCormick, Daniel Martinez & Inez Magdalena Duarte, Binational Migration Institute, University of Arizona, Mexican American Studies and Research Center, March, 2007 (Increased U.S. border,enforcement policies did not stem flow of migration, but created a "funnel effect" forcing a shift in migration routes that increased migrant deaths over last 10 years)

          • BORDER SECURITY:  

            Border Security: Barriers Along the U.S. International Border
            Congressional Research Service - The Library of Congress, December, 2006 (Analysis of costs and effectiveness of barriers as a means to secure the border. Finds wall are extremely expense, require added manpower and resources to work, shift migration to unsecured areas and have environmental consequences)

          • BORDER SECURITY:  

            Holding the Line? The Effect of the Recent Border Build-up on Unauthorized Immigration
            Belinda Reyes PhD,  Hans Johnson PhD,  Richard Van Swearingen , Public Policy Institute of California, 2002 (Increased border security has not decreased the flow of unauthorized immigrants, extended the stay of  undocumented immigrants already in the country, shifted  patterns of migration to less secure areas resulting in an increased number of migrant deaths)

          • FREE TRADE:

            Revisiting NAFTA: Still not working for North America's workers
            By Robert E Scott, Carlos Salas, and Bruce Cambell, Introduction by Jeff Faux, Economic Policy Institute, September, 2006, Briefing paper#173 (Twelve years later, it is clear that the costs to workers outweighed the benefits in all three nations. The process differed from country to country, and given the greater size and wealth of the United States, the impact there has not been as great as it was in Mexico and Canada. But the overall pattern was similar. In each nation, workers’ share of the gains from rising productivity fell and the proportion of income and wealth going to those at the very top of the economic pyramid grew.)

          • LOCAL LEGISLATION

            Enacted State Legislation Related to Immigrants and Immigration
            Compiled from: National Conference of State Legislatures 2007, the Immigration Policy Watch, 2007 with list courtesy of:  DiversityInc (Lists all legislation regarding immigration matters enacted by states.)


          ....perhaps he's the one in need of a "brain transplant" ...or at the least, some education on this issue.

          •  Thanks, this is more like it, but how bout this? (0+ / 0-)

            Trucker's name calling drivel is way off base for sure.

            BTW
            Just took a legal driving vacation in through Ojinaga across Chihuahua, into Sinaloa, ferry to Baja and back, up through Sonora and back across secondary roads back to Central Texas. Beautiful scenery and helpful people as always.

            Been to 48 countries, 10 trips or so to Mexico.

            Drove our own vehicle in to Mexico for the first time, all previous trips were by bus, plane, etc.

            Seemed expensive to enter Mexico legally, especially with a vehicle.

            The US Illegally invaded and continues to occupy   Irag, against the law..... US out now...

            Illegal immigration is NOT an equivalent issue.

            Let me repeat, it is NOT the same.

            But the law is the bottom line on this issue for me as it is on the Iraq invasion and occupation, and illegal immigrants must go...
            Barbara Jordan and rule of law

            We believe legal immigration is in the national interest, but see illegal immigration as a threat both to our long tradition of immigration and to our commitment to the rule of law.

            No one except someone who is too young to know about this great stateswoman would call her a rightwinger for saying some of the same things that Trucker said...  Let him squawk, otherwise it seems we are just back scratching here...

            •  It's ironic (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              opendna, Nightprowlkitty

              when you read Jordan's full comments and recommendations in the context that they ultimately led to the enactment of the Clinton's 1996 immigration bill ...a bill that has proven over time to have not only increased the number of undocumented immigrants in the country, but greatly contributed to increased migrant death and the channeling of undocumented workers to the current "hot spots" of the debate like Arizona.

              It's also interseting to read Jordan calling for an employment verification system very similar to the failed pilot program currently in use.

              Obviously Jordan's comments must be viewed in the context of the time in which they were made.  ...not unlike early democratic support for Mr Bush's war ... "if we knew then, what we know now etc". I wonder how much Ms. Jordan would be supporting the policies she outlined in 1995, if she knew exactly how the outcome of implementing them turned out.

              •  Clinton's 1996 immigration bill???? (0+ / 0-)

                The (P)resident does not create bills.  The (P)resident signs them or vetos them.
                1996 immigration bill

                On September 30, 1996, President Clinton signed the Illegal Immigrant Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 ("IIRIRA 96"). The new law represents the completion of a legislative process which began shortly after the Republican Party assumed majority party status in the House and Senate after the 1994 mid-term elections. Originally, there were two sets of immigration bills in each house of Congress - one covering illegal immigration and one covering legal immigration. The legal immigration bill would have drastically slashed the number of family and employment immigrants permitted into the US. The illegal immigration bill primarily covered border enforcement and deportation. The bills were later combined in each house only to be split again after a heated grass roots lobbying effort. The logic behind combining the bills was that the more controversial legal immigration bill would have an easier time passing of tied to the much more popular illegal immigration bill. Finally, the legal immigration bills in each house were defeated, though a number of provisions affecting legal immigration ended up in the illegal immigration bill. After numerous delays including a threatened Senate filibuster and presidential veto over the issue of barring illegal immigrant children access to public schools, the bill was bundled with a crucial budget bill needed to prevent a shutdown of the government. Last minute compromises were worked out over some of the most controversial provisions including deleting the provisions affecting school children and the bill became law.

                I continue to be disgusted by the Clinton hate that seems to continually flow from the left. This crap was HARDLY Clinton's idea.

                "I know no safe depository for the ultimate power of society but the people themselves" -- Jefferson

                by TheTrucker on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 08:20:31 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  You think it is expensive (3+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              opendna, Duke1676, Nightprowlkitty

              to enter Mexico? Have you any idea what it costs a Mexican to get a tourist visa for the US? 20 dollars for an FMT and 30 dollars for the vehicle permit is expensive?

          •  What a liar (0+ / 0-)

            I see tons of cites of articles that do not address the issues I put forth.  This is called the "authoritarian shotgun approach".  You just throw reems of "papers" about a related subject ("immigration") and let that speak AROUND the actual issues.  I can't find even ONE of the referenced articles that addreses my comment.  Not one that in any way refutes what I have said or makes any claim that might contradict my actual points.  You may not like being called a moonbat any more than I like being (incorrectly) called a red neck, but that isn't the issue, is it.

            I am telling you what the "red neck" people think about the issue as opposed to what they should think about it, and I said very little about my own economic opinions on the subject of actual "immigrants".

            "I know no safe depository for the ultimate power of society but the people themselves" -- Jefferson

            by TheTrucker on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 08:08:13 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Your first lie is "guest workers" = immigrants (0+ / 0-)

        Most of the other misconceptions follow from that. The aggregation of temporary "guest workers" with true immigrants is the primary lie.  I think I showed very clearly that the two are economically quite distinct in that their effect on "working Americans" is quite different.  It is this sort of lying through aggregation that seems quite prevalent in neoclassical economics also.  It is a method of "blurring" distinctions to finance a preconceived point of view (a sophistry), and the "open borders" crowd seem to be quite good at it.

        The post probably does seem "dumb" to you because it is primarily about the reality as opposed to your false aggregations.  But more pointedly it is about this reality in which the forthcoming elections will take place.  I have seen most of the economic arguments concerning the improvement or degradation of conditions for the American working class that supposedly stem from immigration.  But of course, I was not commenting on immigration and I sought to make that clear at the outset.  Many of the economics positions/papers I see make the same aggregations so as to finance the preconceived wish for sweetness and light in their true hearts, but most likely because they yearn for more economic rent flowing into the hands of those that support the current "schools" of economics.  You might actually reread the opening of the comment to clarify the distinction between the "immigrants" being discussed in econ papers and the illegals in the world of reality.
        But I admit that second sentence of my comment was a typographical disaster.  Just to be sure we are clear, here it is without the typos:

        "It is really simple, people.  There are these people called immigrants that come to the United States LEGALLY, bringing their immediate families. They come here to be Americans.  THAT is an immigrant".

        But even if you take the argument that far and stick to true "immigrants" you will find that, so called, improvements in wages do not exist as a claim among the so called "economists".  For the most part it is a claim that average wages are not adversely affected because the displaced workers now become "supervisors".  And by totally screwing the illegals they are able to garner more income for themselves.  The rent effects are always BAD. "rent" does not inure to the working class, but to the owning class.  And all such increases are an expropriation of labor from the working class (including the real immigrants and to a lesser extent the migrants).  Rent is a boon to the owners of the means of production -- most notably LAND.  Claiming "good" rent effects is even worse than claiming that an increasing GDP is a sign of economic success.

        But the points concerning the actual IMMIGRATION economics (which are well understood by me and probably less so by you) were not at issue.  The actual issue was economics as understood by the people who do the voting.  You and I can argue economic theory for some time and probably not agree on the principles (especially about rent and why it matters who actually gets it and what is done with it), but that was not the point and is still not the point of my comment.  It was not, and is not the point because that discussion can take place assuming LEGAL immigrants and I will still win it on the basis of owners versus workers.  When you take into consideration the lack of mobility of the "guest workers" because they ave no valid green card then the demise of wages becomes much clearer.

        What is really at issue is the likely outcome of elections based on the current understanding of the people who are doing the voting. If it is not possible to wrest control from the liars and the mountebanks then it will not be possible to educate and inform the current voters. Only after the means of education are taken away from the liars can we form a proper mechanism to provide a better education with an eye toward future democracy and true representation.  At this juncture it is irrelevant what you or I think about the ILLEGAL immigrant situation.  It must, instead be observed through the lens of popular opinion if one expects to obtain more favorable future results.

        Then I finished up on this point, again, I thought very clearly.  Your continued "goody two shoes" whining about unfair treatment of people who you continue to mischaracterize as "immigrants" is going to award a very large amount of power to local Republicans and so continue the fear and the jingoism.  Yet in true form you choose to call me a "racist" though I have said absolutely nothing that is at all "racist".

        You seem to be part of the "moonbat" group that has no basis for your position other than the way you FEEEEEEL about something.  I, OTOH, am interested in DOING something about the problems.  Please note that I have declared FOR AMNESTY, FOR GREEN CARDS, FOR INCREASED IMMIGRATION.  And so your last parting lie is the "racist" tag.  All the stuff in the middle about the economics being good or bad for the "working class" is certainly debatable and is not necessarily a bed of lies.  But you seem to be quite comfortable in the obvious lies you have constructed from your own prejudices.

        The maximization of economic rent and the continuing destruction of wages is the cause celeb of the Republican party and the "compassionate left" are used to cut off any debate on the real issues and devolve into calls of racism and stupid, and the like.  All the big landowners and corporate big boys share the following observation:   "Them brown skinned robots are a lot less expensive than the mechanical kind, and they're disposable".

        The people who come here must have the freedom to compete and the rights, privileges, and responsibilities of the rest of us.  When this is not the case they are then just tools used by the owning class to decrease costs and increase the rents realized by the owners.  And this continuing increase in the wealth disparity illustrates the downfall of our middle class.

        "I know no safe depository for the ultimate power of society but the people themselves" -- Jefferson

        by TheTrucker on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 07:55:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  bleh. (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Duke1676, mariachi mama

          When you are able to back up even one of your bullshit assertions with real facts, perhaps folks will listen to you ... though I doubt it, as you are just bloviating endlessly as though your only wish is to continue to hear your own voice.

          As it is, undocumented workers do pay taxes, both income taxes and social security taxes.  You are just wrong on your facts and trying to make up for it by extreme obnoxiousness.  Good luck with that.

          Duke has refuted all of your bullshit ... with facts you seem unwilling to check out and instead call lies.

          It doesn't matter, TheTrucker.  Your kind of self-righteous bloviating nonsense is, thankfully, on the wane.  Americans of all political stripes are becoming more and more aware of how our labor laws are being abused and how NAFTA and other very bad trade agreements are helping to create the circumstances for migrant workers coming here at great personal risk, and becoming very aware who the real enemy is.

          Keep drinking your kool-aid -- hope it tastes good as you watch life pass you by.

          •  Within the Hour I will post a diary that "backs (0+ / 0-)

            Up what I have to say with proper economics (20:30 - 21:30 PDT). You seem to want to "make shit up" in that I have never climed that illegals do not pay FICA taxes.  They do not pay much in the way of income taxes because they do not earn enough.  I was informed many years ago that they claimed as many dependents as necessary to escape the income tax withholding. But that, of course, was and is not part of my position at all.  You people just keep making up crap as you go along.  As to "obnoxiousness" you can just suck on it.  I will not excuse lies and distortions about what I have said from anyone.

            Duke has actually refuted not a damned thing I have ever posted.  What he has done is to post a lot of neoclassical horsecrap that does not actually address the issue or what I have posited.  The bulk of what he posted was a smear attempt dragging in all sorts of rightarded "crime, healthcare, taxes, cost of services, assimilation/language, demographics, statistics, racism, border security, free trade, and legal legislation" and other topics that are chock full of Republican lies with which I have absolutely no association.  His attack is best described as very "Rovian"  "shotgun blast" to be sure, in which he attempts to tar me by association with all all sorts of crap that is either flat wrong or totally of topic.

            And it does matter, Nightprowlkitty.  The sort of "self-righteous bloviating nonesense" in which "Duke" and now you are indulging is much more counterproductive than the "name calling" in which I indulged.

            As to NAFTA I posted a diary that included that subject before I responded to Duke's latest diary.  I actually addressed the economics of it as oppsed to "posturing" and "preening" about it.  My diary was an outright recognition of the advrse effects of NAFTA and what to do about it as opposed to just stopping at the point of whining and hand wringing over it. You seem to think that a lack of continued whining and crying is somehow a "support" for NAFTA.

            And I assure you that I _KNOW_ who the real enemy is and I know that the far left "caring" persons are inadvertently helping the enemy.  There are ways to properly address the issues.  And those "ways" are fond and defined by recognizing the actual problems.

            "I know no safe depository for the ultimate power of society but the people themselves" -- Jefferson

            by TheTrucker on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 08:50:50 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  lol ... (0+ / 0-)

              ... you wrote:

              The illegal migrant workers do not have any investment in US health care, US Social Security, the US educational system or in any form of future here in the USA. They are here to send money back to Mexico and build a future there

              They pay in ... that is an investment.  Nor do you have any numbers available as to how many do indeed want to live here and contribute to their communities.

              I don't think you know anything at all.

              Duke wrote a very well sourced diary on how comprehensive immmigration reform can work here in America, backed by actual data and refraining from obnoxious bullshit characterizations both of undocumented workers and folks who care how they are treated.

              Thus far I have seen virtually nothing from you that is backed up by anything other than your own pompous and foolish attitude.

              Poor you.

    •  Ann (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Nightprowlkitty, mariachi mama

      I knew the book sales and speaking engagements would slow down after you said you'd be campaigning for Hillary if McCain got the nomination .... but I didn't know you'd be taking on a second job as a truck driver to make ends meet. ..but then again, you've always had a mouth on ya like a truck driver, so a guess it's a good fit.

      Say hello to Hannity and the boys for me

    •  Does illegal immigration really effect wages? (0+ / 0-)

      I am afraid it does . Here in Arizona jobs in the skilled labor catagories such as construction and cement work pay about $10/hour in the non union sector . Machine maintenance pays $13-15 as a starting wage (with experience) . Wage studies support this unpleasant fact . Due to a lack of responsible behavior by our Congress and President , we enacted severe penalties (loss of business license for businesses that knowingly hire illegal immigrants , permanent loss on 2nd offence) . The Chamber of Commerce howled in protest and challenged the new law in court . So far the courts have upheld the new law . This legislation has a chilling effect on the hiring of illegals . Labor markets are tightening and employers are realizing that they need to compete for employees instead of having a pool of minimum wage illegals at their disposal .
      I favor expanding legal immigration for employment in areas such as farming . However , I have only one thing to say to the  illegals "Go home ! And don't come back without a legal entry" .
      BTW , I have lost all respect for the Chamber of Commerce . It has become a fascist organization whose objectives include government subsidies for  big business , and the suppression of wage increases for labor (skilled , un-skilled , or otherwise )at any cost .

    •  Barking up the wrong tree, it seems. (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Duke1676, Nightprowlkitty

      I understand how anyone who tries to earn a decent living in America at this time in history is struggling.  So why are so many Americans underwater with their mortgages, drowning in debt?  It isn't illegal immigration.  Why are so many of us having trouble finding jobs that have some real benefits and decent wages, while all the stuff we buy comes from China?  It isn't illegal immigration.  If you want to know where our current troubles are spawned, one place to start looking is the Bush tax code and the massive transfer of wealth to the wealthiest that came with it.  Jobs are still pouring out of this country to wherever, because the corporate masters are only in it for the money, and they're all in bed with the people who keep the till full - and most of those are on the Repub side of the aisle.  And, just as an interesting coincidence, did anyone notice that American life has been going steadily down the crapper since the Decider decided to storm the Middle East?  If you want to know why your job, and your bills, and your life suck, study the names under the "R" column the next time you're in the voting booth.  They've been running the show for the last twenty years, but you don't see any of them going hungry.

    •  Hate pours from your posting Trucker... (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Duke1676, Nightprowlkitty

      Graciously Duke1676 refutes your viewpoints below and shoots them down with hard data and volumes of information, should you be brave enough to actually READ something other than right wing dogma.  Aside from all this research and evidence that your are talking shiat, there is the not so small factor of our agricultural business policies in Mexico destroying the farming economy there and forcing the population to migrate out of the country to find work.
      In the end, kindness IS ALL that matters.

      "A lie repeated, may be accepted as fact, but the truth repeated becomes self evident." -Elonifer Skyhawk

      by Fireshadow on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 04:54:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I will not tolerate these lies (0+ / 0-)

        I recently published a diary concerning NAFTA's adveres effects on Mexican farm labor.

        NAFTA allowed  the free use of financial capital and the consolidation and unemployment that went with it especially in the agricultural sector. The result of that was the consolidation and mechanization of small farms that resulted in unemployment for a great many agricultural workers.  Meanwhile, other "free trade" agreements moved manufacturing jobs from Mexico to China.  The result was an outsourcing of the American manufacturing livelihood to Mexico for only a very brief instant before the those jobs ended up in other locales.

        I am quite amazed at how my position has been totally distorted by you and others due to your overemotional reliance on compassion as opposed to reason and logic and actual FAIRNESS.  I am very well read concerning the economics of immigration and well read enough to see that most, so called, economists are missing the real issues.  Specifically regarding the near term effects that flow from proper legalizatiion and enforcement, I am all about the distinction between legal immigrants and temporary workers because the macro economic effects are quite different.  But more to the point here, I am on about the lack of opportunity and mobility for the illegal workers (a micro effect).  It is that lack of mobility that allows the employers to take advantage of the workers. And as the employers are able to do that then they replace less "pliable" workers and pay lower wages or extract more labor from the illegals than what would normally prevail in a "fair" market.  I have read much of Duke1676 and his heart is in the right place.  I just wish he could tolerate a focus on realities of the difference between permanent immigrants and migrants and the difference between illegal and legal labor as regards the "producing class" versus the "owning class" and the effects these differences have on the middle class (producing class) of BOTH Mexico and the USA.

        In the end KINDNESS will be taken advantage of by the Republicans to enrich themselves at every turn.

        "I know no safe depository for the ultimate power of society but the people themselves" -- Jefferson

        by TheTrucker on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 09:05:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  At the local level, most people don't see (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Duke1676, Nightprowlkitty
    Local media are isolated and cannot get any information about what is really going on.

    The part of the picture that they can see is just the most visible, some people from somewhere south of the border moving in and taking low wage jobs.  The question of why this is happening is beyond local access.

    There is a racist history here, especially in the south and southwest towards Indian people or people a mestizo heritage.  That is what fuels a lot of the demogoguery.  But it isn't a cause, it is a way to yank people's chains.

    Thanks for the diary.  It seems a discussion about this is starting to get somewhere.

  •  great diary, (thanks for the rescue) (3+ / 0-)

    great diary Duke1676! very sorry i missed it originally so couldn't rec it. this one of the defining issues of our time, and i'm frankly very disappointed that the issue doesn't get traction from more people here. hopefully that will change once we have a nominee.

    i have been unhappy with many Dems' attitude that we can just do nothing, and let the ReThugs lose all the Hispanic votes because of their hate-mongering.

    but even if they lose national elections, the hate they've created in people's hearts will remain. which is why we need Dems to take it on head first. it seems to me Obama, with his righteous powers of persuasion, could do this most effectively. i think he needs to start now, and stop the hatred from spreading any further. i think he'll have to do it sooner or later, because of the positions he's taken. i vote for sooner.  

    we should work to defeat any candidate who steals the Democratic nomination.

    by catchaz on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 02:05:58 PM PDT

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