Daily Kos

Polls, Shmolls - Still Proudly Voting Hillary

Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 05:03:10 PM PDT

This is a vote I will never, ever regret. I'll be proud of it until the day I die. I'll be proud of it regardless of who wins California on Tuesday.

My journey has been a strange one: I began with a visceral dislike of this woman, searching for the great hope of a star candidate that could beat her in the primaries.

I went to an Obama rally in Oakland, California last spring and boy was that the best-looking, sexiest, most wholesome looking crowd I'd seen in ages. Young families, kids in strollers, people of color, white people.

And then Obama arrived and spoke. He was...fine. No real complaints. Didn't leave me with a feeling of certainty. Didn't leave me jazzed. I think I had more hope looking at the crowd beforehand than I did after listening to the candidate. He stuttered and stammered a bit. And he said the word "I" a lot - coming from the Howard Dean people-powered politics movement I don't subscribe to "the great man theory" and I didn't like Obama's speech that day. But there was time for him to improve. It wasn't his best day.

Then I watched the debates. Man was Hillary solid in those debates. She was presidential. She owned the room. "But she had high negatives" I thought to myself. I was probably one of those people that gave her high negatives.

My dislike for her started to wear off.

I started to see the star quality in this woman, and read about her college friends who tried to talk her out of marrying Bill and moving to Arkansas. She had a promising future and they felt she was throwing it away by being a political wife.

I read lots of profiles of the two candidates. Obama's poetic life story, grabbing the disparate patches of his life and stitching them together into his own identity quilt was so compelling - and I oddly could identify with that struggle.

Obama's time as president of the Harvard Law Review was marked as one in which he was a peacemaker. He didn't fight for any particular agenda. He didn't move the review in one direction or the other. Hmm...

He developed a leadership style based more on furthering consensus than on imposing his own ideas. Surrounded by students who enjoyed the sound of their own voices, Mr. Obama cast himself as an eager listener, sometimes giving warring classmates the impression that he agreed with all of them at once.

Well we certainly are a fractious country right now and that could be a plus. But would he be a leader or a marriage counselor? Is his mission for us to all get along? Is there anything else? One thing I didn't like about Bill Clinton was his need to be liked. Was Obama another need-to-be-liked candidate? We need toughness right now, Harry Truman and not Sally Field (no offense Sally.)

I heard Hillary unveil her universal health care proposal - many Edwards supporters say she stole his best ideas. Well I want our candidate to steal the very best of everybody's ideas on health care. If Obama is our candidate I pray he steals Hillary's (or John Edwards') health care proposal. I believe more than anything else, a solid health care safety net will have a ripple effect of snapping this economy back into shape.

Her delivery unveiling that health care proposal was stellar. She varied the speeds in her words, lowering and softening her voice at times. She said if you have insurance that works for you right now, you don't have to change. "She gets it" I thought to myself. She gets what derailed her attempt in 1993 at reforming health care. And she wants to go down in history as the one who reformed it for this country. Paul Krugman's columns lately on the need for mandates to balance the risk pool and lower the risk premiums only further solidified my conviction.

On national security, I know others don't see it yet, but I've grown to see her as a commander-in-chief who conveys confidence in tough times.

I watched her interview with Charlie Gibson, and she spoke of the values her father and her mother instilled in her - it was stark and pragmatic: "if we were going to play football, we all played football. I was expected to compete." "Life's unpredictable, there is no security, you have to be able to stand on your own two feet, you can't expect anyone to take care of you." Harsh, but realistic. And strong.

She had fantastic promise as a high school student - but Yale did not accept women for undergrad admission in her time. She wrote to NASA as teenager asking what does it take to work at your institution? Only to hear that she had to be a man. Whoa.

I hear from people in upstate New York who did not like her when she was a carpetbagging senate candidate but who are now CRAZY about her. She has performed as a Senator - exceeded their expectations.

I did more research, read more Obama profiles and read more about Hillary.

Obama is a lovely man with a lovely wife and an absolutely lovely and interesting life story. But I don't see him as somebody who puts himself on the line. Somebody who is willing to be unpopular. He says he'll tell us not just we want to hear. But I do see his health care proposal, and his statement on immigration in the last debate, as just that. He doesn't want to upset us too much. I find him to be a bit righteous and - at times - mildly dour. Should he win the nomination, I hope he'll flash those great choppers a bit more.

Hillary bounded onto the last debate stage with a blast of energy and a sunburst of strength.

I do see the times ahead as pretty (can I say it?) dark and challenging. I've had enough of Dubya's "optimism" and the hagiographic essays of Reagan's "morning in America" message. I want a president who is made of steel, who can steer us through the rough waters ahead.

And I don't see a woman with the kind of commanding presence that Hillary has - I don't see another one coming along any time soon. This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. I'm prepared for any outcome but I'll never regret voting for this champion, this star - Hillary. I'll take any flame and ridicule you throw at me for my Super Tuesday choice. This is an amazing Democrat, an amazing American and yes an amazing woman who will go down favorably in history, rightly so.

Poll

I feel Hillary

8%18 votes
1%4 votes
18%37 votes
0%2 votes
3%8 votes
0%0 votes
0%0 votes
8%18 votes
13%27 votes
0%0 votes
0%0 votes
0%1 votes
0%1 votes
0%2 votes
42%86 votes

| 204 votes | Vote | Results

Tags: Hillary Clinton (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 122 comments

  •  Iraq (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    highacidity, chillindame, haruki, broui

    She was wrong about Iraq.

    We shall overcome, someday. Yes we can.

    by Sam Wise Gingy on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 05:04:36 PM PDT

  •  Good diary, but I disagree with your last (12+ / 0-)

    paragraphs.  Hillary is a very strong legislator -- and an impressive woman.  But I know many women in my own life of whom I am even more impressed.

    I think there will be other women of Hillary's caliber in the near future.  She is breaking down barriers.  

    I just think we're ready for a real change.  Obama's building a movement, and I want to go where it leads.

    Cheers on a good diary, though.

    Stop McCain and the GOP. Support Barack Obama and the DNC.

    by DaveV on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 05:05:46 PM PDT

    •  I'm convinced the reaction to her (10+ / 0-)

      is in part because she is powerful and she is strong. Not only a woman but a powerful woman who is liberal just sends people into fits of apoplexy.

      I see strong women all over the place. But none with the commanding presence that she has - the first woman president will have to be a Republican, I'm afraid (unless Hillary gets it.) Republicanism nullifies the threat.

      •  Absolutely ... (8+ / 0-)

        The Devil Wears Prada, Cruella de Ville ... does a pattern emerge? And the dirtiest secret of all, Hillary is good looking. It shouldn't matter but it does, with mixed and complex effects.

        Either she or Obama can beat McCain if the economy is the issue, and probably beat him big. But if something bad goes down - and you know who will get Osama's endorsement this fall - Hillary will stand up better than Obama will, because for all of being a woman she has a reputation as tough.

        The best fortress is to be found in the love of the people - Niccolo Machiavelli

        by al Fubar on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 05:25:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Today I watched the rally at UCLA (6+ / 0-)

        for Obama.

        Michelle.

        Oprah.

        Caroline.

        Maria.

        All incredibly powerful.

        All incredibly strong.

        All liberal.

        Why don't they evoke the same reaction in me that Hillary Clinton does?

        Your argument has no merit.

        "What Washington needs is adult supervision." --BARACK OBAMA

        by broui on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 05:29:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  They're not running for the position (4+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          oysterface, brn2bwild, high uintas, J Rae

          Maybe I'm wrong. I really truly hope I'm wrong.

          They're rallying for somebody else to get the position. This is a major, major position.

          •  Missing the point (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            areucrazy

            Fear of strong women isn't the reason people don't want to vote for her is the point.

            And Democrats should be above identity politics.

            Sad.

            "What Washington needs is adult supervision." --BARACK OBAMA

            by broui on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 05:41:48 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  We see it differently (3+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              splashy, J Rae, Montague

              I think you're missing my point.

              Identity politics - if Obama were a white dude would it be like this? Maybe, maybe not.

              •  Easy there... (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                Philoguy

                Yes of course I would.

                Because I read his stuff.  I have heard most of his speeches.  I have looked deeply at his record.

                I see a person of deep convictions and character.

                I do see a person that asks Americans to take part in the rebuilding and restoration of American that we so desperately need.

                Howard Dean, Paul Tsongas had similar messages but lacked his charisma and ability to speak.

                FDR, JFK, RFK, MLK all had the message and the stuff to deliver it.

                Once a generation we get a person like this.  Once.

                This is that person.

                I don't give a rat's ass what color that person is or what their genitalia.

                I only care about their character, their message and their ability to get it across to a wide cross section of Americans without rancor.

                Independents are coming in droves.

                Republicans are coming too.

                More and more Democrats are coming all the time.

                This is what it's about for me.

                No.  I'm not like you.  I see past the skin.  I really don't care about a "first" any damn thing.  I care about this country improving damn fast because I have a baby on the way and I'm currently not proud of who we have become as a country.

                "What Washington needs is adult supervision." --BARACK OBAMA

                by broui on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 06:03:20 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Wow, this response speaks volumes (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                high uintas

                about how you think.

                •  Identity politics are real (2+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  brn2bwild, splashy

                  Part of the excitement right now is that we have different candidates - a woman and a person of color. Young people look up there and see people who look more like themselves than ever before.

                  Part of what makes Obama's story so beautiful is his identity - and how he had to decide what his identity is because it wasn't spelled out for him. He made a decision to stop dating white women and just date black women. He made a decision to lay down roots in the midwest.

                  In a way this election is the culmination of identity politics - what began with the sit-ins and bus rides gained volume with another wave of women's liberation. Then this wonderful movement plus latino rights and asian-american rights blasted apart into a fractious disjointed self-involved set of disparate movements.

                  But part of what makes Hillary's story so fierce is she didn't pick up at the end of the civil rights movement - her adulthood crested as it was cresting. And she swam it all the way to being the first really outspoken and (are we allowed to say this?) ambitious first lady. She took the fire and swam right on to where she is now. She never gave up and emerged a stronger more dynamic person because of it. It gave her more than it ever took from her. Olympian proportions of evolution.

                  •  Wait, let me get this straight... (0+ / 0-)

                    Obama is black and Clinton is a woman?  I was busy listening to what they had to say, how they said it, and examining their platforms.  In judging them on their merit this somehow completely escaped my notice!

        •  and which one of those holds public (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          catfish

          office again? elected that is and not a tea sipping First Lady  ;)

        •  I have respect for all of those women (7+ / 0-)

          well, most of them. Oprah makes my teeth itch, but that's personal, nothing really wrong with her, I just see her through Kathy Griffin eyes.

          But, not one of them has been demonized the way that Hillary has. Whole generations have only seen her through the Limbaugh lens. I don't. I see her as a woman of my generation, one who not only talked the talk, but walked the walk.

          My neighbor was talking to me about her brother's reaction to some of his co-workers. He's a blue collar worker, smart and liberal/libertarian. He told her that he was shocked at the sexism and outright hatred that he hears about Hillary. And, before you go "Aha!" the same guys say they would never vote for a n****r.

          Identity politics are alive and well all over the country, we have to fight it. Supporting our candidates is the first step. If Obama gets the nod, I'll do all I can to help, but my primary vote goes to Hillary.

          Edwards Democrat voting for Obama would like to remind you, "Concentration Moon, over the camp in the valley" Frank Zappa knew.

          by high uintas on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 06:12:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Couldn't have said it better (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            high uintas

            'specially your last graph.

          •  I mean you no disrespect (3+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            DaveV, high uintas, Philoguy

            But this is the difference between Obama voters and Clinton voters.

            Many argue we're dreamers.  Naive.  Young.  (I'm not so young).  And so on.

            But what people don't seem to get is that we've chosen to move past identity politics.  We've chosen to move past all the old wedge issues because they are balls and chains.  They have kept this party and our country weak for too long.

            Instead, I choose to see a large diverse group of good and flawed human beings choosing to reach for something better.

            Now, maybe that's naive.

            But, people are strange.  They often succomb to social pressure pretty quickly.  

            Smoking was once cool. Everyone smoked.  Now, it's quickly becoming a completely different story isn't it?

            What changed in 15 years?  

            Massive political will.  People en masse said, "Enough."

            So, why not with other things, things that are important?

            This is what Barack Obama is offering and why people are backing him.

            Hillary Clinton is a fine Democrat.  In the past, she'd be a shoe-in.  But, this is now.  People desperately are looking for something more than an above average or good politician to try to solve our problems for us.

            They need someone to light a fire under all our asses and to help us kick start our democracy again.

            "What Washington needs is adult supervision." --BARACK OBAMA

            by broui on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 06:28:48 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I don't feel disrespected (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              catfish, DaveV

              I admire your passion. My decision is made on issues that matter to me, but if your guy gets the nomination I will support him with all I've got. He's a wonderful candidate, if HRC gets the nom I hope she chooses him for VP. We would have 16 years of fantastic leadership, IMO.

              Edwards Democrat voting for Obama would like to remind you, "Concentration Moon, over the camp in the valley" Frank Zappa knew.

              by high uintas on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 07:17:16 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  They are strong women (5+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          catfish, splashy, high uintas, J Rae, Hypatica

          backing a man.  Interesting!

          Today, I read a diary about Michele Obama being such a smart, graceful woman that she makes the writer vote for Obama.  And I thought, hum, Hillary being a very smart, intelligent, competent, graceful and tough woman doesn't make him vote for her!!

          I asked, why do you want to vote for Obama based on Michelle's brains, but not vote for Hillary's brains in one go?

          Sometimes, a cackle is the best medicine!

          by ghost2 on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 07:00:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I agree with a lot of what you say (5+ / 0-)

        it's why choosing between them has been so painful for me.  I've noticed I'm sad when she loses a primary and sad when Obama does.

        She did really, really well in the California debate.  I think she owned the first half and Obama did better on the second part.

        I watched the whole debate to make up my mind and it didn't help at all.

        NetrootNews coming soon!

        by ksh01 on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 05:50:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Love-her or hate-her tip jar (17+ / 0-)

    Full speed ahead! Love this woman - she is a champ!

  •  I'm with you. This site has become nothing (12+ / 1-)

    more than www.barackobama.com, part II.   There are so many, in fact, that I suspect we're seeing a few chameleons here, Obama supporters logged in multiple times and purporting to be "former Edwards supporters", "school kids", "southerners", "old ladies".  

    This is the most Machiavelian group of people I have ever seen.

    •  You just haven't looked hard enough... (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      highacidity, Philoguy, NMLib

      This is the most Machiavelian group of people I have ever seen.

      In invite you to visit Hillary is 44.

      Though its actually more Jerry Springer.

      Its the delegates that count

      by Morgan Sandlin on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 05:10:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It is two days before Super-Tuesday (0+ / 0-)

      What else would we talk about?

      Progessives are picking their leader.

      I think this qualifies as a hot topic, don't you?

      We shall overcome, someday. Yes we can.

      by Sam Wise Gingy on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 05:16:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  you're not paranoid if... (0+ / 0-)

      They're really making multiple accounts to sway Hillary supporters!

      I think more likely, dKos readers are extremely aware of who HRC's backers are, and what their results have been in the past - '00 and '04. They see BHO running a 50-state playbook that includes field offices in Alaska, and they see good things for the party.

      And I think since kossacks see every side of everything, they're virtually certain to have full knowledge of every sleazy or questionable thing every candidate does, whether it's McLurkin or push-polling, and in the end, they conclude, as I did, that if Hillary can't run an honest campaign and run on her good qualities, then she can't be trusted with the presidency.

      •  But wait, didn't 04's loser just endorse Obama (0+ / 0-)

        as poster boy for the somewhat stiff northern liberal book-writing lecture-the-people wing of the Democratic party?   The wing that always loses?

        Hillary comes from the southern populist "give 'em hell" wing.  The wing that wins.  

    •  no (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      oysterface, Oothoon

      you have no idea what "Machiavellian" means

    •  This indicates that (0+ / 0-)

      Obama has won the majority or consensus support on this site, not that there's some sort of cult.

  •  I feel Hillary... (5+ / 0-)

    is further demonstrating that she will do anything to get elected by push-polling California. She's a politician in the worst sense of the word.

    I think Hillary started, long ago, with her heart in the right place. I think she's brilliant, she's driven, and she's practiced and prepared to a fault. But she lost sight of the moral imperative that Democrats deserve to bear as their standard. We're fighting for equality, for honesty, for grace for a nation in a time of need. Hillary is a warrior, to be sure. But she has bloodlust, and so we must turn her away or imperil our cause.

    •  Already knocked down ... (8+ / 0-)

      At TPM.

      Read it carefully - Josh was suckered in himself, then added a somewhat weenie update indicating that it is bullshit.

      The best fortress is to be found in the love of the people - Niccolo Machiavelli

      by al Fubar on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 05:19:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  wrong link? (0+ / 0-)

        You linked to a dkos story that seems unrelated. But I found the link, and I agree it is too thin to go on.

        I think I'm all too ready to believe Clinton would push poll, because of her "Reagan/Republican" nonsense, her "Barack won't stand up for choice" mailer, and other lies.

        •  He didn't stand up for choice (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          catfish, splashy

          He voted present for an easy vote considering the demographics of his constituency.  The president of the Illinois NOW sent out a letter challenging the version put out by Lorna Brett's video.  Here it is below:
          .

          I thought I'd take a moment to try to add some clarity to the anti-choice Present votes in IL.

          Lorna Brett was president of CNOW from 1996-1998. She was not president at the time we were lobbying on these bills. Five of those votes occurred in the 92nd General Assembly session in 2001. NOW records indicate that she hasn't been a member since 1999. She was not there when we were lobbying against these bills. She is using her very old affiliation with NOW to try to validate her criticism of Hillary Clinton.

          Voting Present on those bills was a strategy that Illinois NOW did not support. We made it clear at the time that we disagreed with the strategy. We wanted legislators to take a stand against the awful anti-choice bills being put forth. Voting Present doesn't provide a platform from which to show leadership and say with conviction that we support a woman's right to choose and these bills are unacceptable.

          The Present strategy was devised to give political cover to legislators in conservative districts. Barack Obama did not represent a conservative district; he could have voted No with very little negative consequence in his district.

          - Bonnie Grabenhofer
          IL NOW State President

          •  Very interesting (0+ / 0-)

            Is there a link for that?  It would be useful in the future.

            •  except that... (0+ / 0-)

              While Brett makes a very nice figure on youtube, the present strategy was Illionois Planned Parenthoods. See:

              here:

              On the abortion bills, legislators who supported women's rights to the procedure were encouraged to vote "present" on bills that would have required parental notice before minors could obtain abortions and that would have barred what abortion foes call "partial-birth" abortions, a leading abortion-rights advocate said. The goal was to entice moderate Republicans and Democrats to also vote present, helping to defeat the bills.

                 "The poor guy is getting all this heat for a strategy we, the pro-choice community, did," said Pam Sutherland, president and CEO of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council.

          •  The Present strategy was not NOWs, it was... (0+ / 0-)

            Illinois Planned Parenthood Council's.

            Pam Sutherland is the president and CEO of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council. She says Obama voted "present" at least seven times to provide cover to other abortion-rights supporters on such bills as the "Born Alive Infant Protection Act."

            Maybe Grabenhofer's swipe at Obama has something to do with:

            "She is, after all, our native sister," said Bonnie Grabenhofer, president of
            Illinois NOW in a statement on the group's website. "We know from her record and in her heart she will be there for us."

            But Illinois NOW was not content to leave it at that. Grabenhofer also took a serious swipe at Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.), denigrating his record on women's rights in the state Senate.

            "When we needed someone to take a stand, Senator Obama took a pass," said Grabenhofer, criticizing him for voting 'present' on many key votes. "He wasn't there for us then and we don't expect him to be now."

            That, say other advocates of women's rights, is unfair and unfortunate.

            But that same article follows up with:

            "There's never been a problem with Sen. Obama. It's really a shame," said Lorna Brett, a Clinton supporter and former president of Chicago NOW.

            So Lorna Brett was posing as a Clinton supporter, to clever change sides at the appropriate moment of opportunity?

            Steve Trombley, CEO and president of Planned Parenthood/Chicago Action, said there's a reason his organization has endorsed Obama throughout his political career.

            "Senator Obama has been a consistent supporter of reproductive rights while in the legislature and we worked closely with him in developing and implementing legislative strategies to protect the rights of women in Illinois."

            There's another take on this here,:

            On the abortion bills, legislators who supported women's rights to the procedure were encouraged to vote "present" on bills that would have required parental notice before minors could obtain abortions and that would have barred what abortion foes call "partial-birth" abortions, a leading abortion-rights advocate said. The goal was to entice moderate Republicans and Democrats to also vote present, helping to defeat the bills.

            "The poor guy is getting all this heat for a strategy we, the pro-choice community, did," said Pam Sutherland, president and CEO of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council.

            In other words, Grabenhofer is just in on the hit.

      •  Josh wants to be suckered in, if it's bad for (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        catfish

        Hillary.

    •  Back it up with proof (3+ / 0-)

      or your statement is worthless.  

      "I'm for Hillary because I believe that the United States right now is in a world of crap." - spoken by a Nevada voter

      by SaneSoutherner on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 05:22:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  people like you will change the world (8+ / 0-)

    first. woman. president. of the free world.

    damn, sounds good to me

    those were good times, as far as we knew --colbert

    by AmericanHope on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 05:08:26 PM PDT

    •  Just curious (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      broui, SDuvall

      Why do Obama supporters never say:

      "first.black.president.of the free world?"

      "I may have fucked my life up flatter than hammered shit, but I stand here before you today beholden to no human cocksucker."

      by John R on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 05:15:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  because he wouldnt be the first (0+ / 0-)

        black men are leaders all over the world. its the woman who are lacking

        those were good times, as far as we knew --colbert

        by AmericanHope on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 05:39:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  John R (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        catfish, brn2bwild

        If you'll permit me, I think I can answer that. Both Obama and Hillary are in unique positions. We've never had a black or a woman who were what the media likes to call "credible" candidates. Both of them are treading on razor blades.

        For Obama, IMO, the race issue is harder than the gender issue is for HRC. If he runs as the "first black ect", then he would instantly set off a number of situations that would slip out of his control.

        First, he would be identified with all the civil rights leaders, past and present, good and bad. That's why the Jesse Jackson statement was seen as a negative. It would cause an us vs them scenerio in minds that are prone to think that way. So far, he's been able to transcend that for the most part and that's to his credit.

        Second, to make his candidacy about race would nullify his whole "unify" message. That message is the thing that keeps this from devolving into a racial candidacy.

        HRC, on the other hand, can bring the gender issue to the front with more ease. A number of women have already paved that way, first female Governor, Sec of State, A G, VP candidate, ect all the way up to Nancy Pelosi, first woman Speaker of the House.

        Next, for her the us vs them is a smaller threat. Yes, there are rabid sexists out there, I spoke of them earlier, but with the exception of multi racial families like my own, not every household has a member of the "other" race in it. But, everyone has a mom, sis, daughter, grandma. The gap isn't that wide.

        That, to me, is why there has been so much parsing of every word and phrase. Do I think that Bill was deliberate when he brought up Jesse Jackson? Yup. Was he being racial when he said "a roll of the dice"? No, I don't believe that.

        When my already racially mixed family, white Mormon, Hispanic, Native American, added African American to our growing brood we all screwed up now and then. We did and said things without knowing or intending that would cause some pretty interesting silences. As my late bro in law, Stan once said, "Shit, sis. I never know when I'm going to open my mouth and step on my dick".

        Touchy racial fubars are more explosive than touchy sexist ones are, it's not right but I believe it's true. We've let slip some nasty sexist language through here that would never had made it if it were racial. I may be wrong, but I believe that gender works for HRC and race works against Obama.

        Edwards Democrat voting for Obama would like to remind you, "Concentration Moon, over the camp in the valley" Frank Zappa knew.

        by high uintas on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 07:09:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  You actually expect me to believe (6+ / 0-)

    you weren't ALWAYS a Hillary supporter.......
    By the way this diary is written and framed!
    NO SALE

    But you have every right to vote for who you want.

    CondiLiar Rice, enabler and war criminal

    by gaiilonfong on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 05:11:20 PM PDT

  •  I once had a Hillary bumper sticker (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    DaveV, chillindame, broui, SDuvall

    on my car.

    But that was a long time ago and mostly a protest statement against Bush. I've come to a different conclusion than you. The more I see Hillary, the less I like her.

  •  Theres no choice for corporate war lover. could (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    chillindame, broui

    you add that one?

    thanks

    •  If you (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      catfish, splashy

      take her Iraq vote out of it, how does she stack up? In all the diaries I have read recently, or posted on, it was that vote I was called on. This is a serious question and would just love to have some stark discussion on this without the regular bashing that goes with it.
      Any takers?

      Freedom requires effort if it is to be won and vigilance if it is to be maintained. People don't value freedom until it is taken away. Richard Rahl WFR

      by snoopydawg on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 05:31:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But you can't take that vote away. (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Philoguy

        And you can't take the K-L vote away.

        And she hasn't apologized or admitted a mistake that others in her position have.

        It's about integrity.

        After 8 years of Bush and her husband disrespecting the office too, it's about integrity.

        What is so hard to see about that?

        "What Washington needs is adult supervision." --BARACK OBAMA

        by broui on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 05:34:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  that's one thing about hillary supporters here. (15+ / 0-)

    we have the courage of our convictions. trying to bully us is counterproductive. but you're welcome to try ;-)

    Hillary 2008 - Flying Monkey Squadron 283

    by campskunk on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 05:20:21 PM PDT

  •  Can some people own their mess? (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    broui

    Are you strong willed or weak of mind?

    How can anyone force you to feel your vote or your choice is inferior other than yourself? If there is or was any uncertainty, lay the blame on your own feet.

    I wanted Hillary to run in 2004 and she didn't. Instead Barack Obama caught my attention and I was pleasantly surprised when he decided to run. Even when he was the underdog from day one. My support only became stronger when I viewed his stances, got to see and know more about him. Even with the inevitability factor of Hillary's campaign people like myself stuck with our choice and felt pride in the decision we were to make. Regardless of polls or what others said.

    People should vote for, should support the candidate that has their heart, their mind, their best interest as point #1. A poll, a Hillary supporter, McCain cannot and will not make me feel shaky on what I feel is right, and I'm surprised so many Hillary supporters are using Obama supporters and polls, the media as some sort of rallying cry for themselves.

    Vote for who you want and own up to your own feelings and your decision. Goodness.

  •  Just made up my mind -- Hillary on Tuesday (13+ / 0-)

    will get my vote.

    Had been leaning that way, pretty strongly, saw both Obama and Clinton on the MTV program last night, and that was it.

    More here.

    yes I know its spelled wrong but I can't figure out how to change it: triptych triptych triptych.

    by tryptich2 on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 05:24:01 PM PDT

    •  She's been "pre-Swiftboated" - insightful! (6+ / 0-)

      I completely agree. No one candidate is immune from oppositional attacks.

      "Prince Charming vs. Wonkette" - great encapsulation. It's a tough choice.

    •  not sure what (0+ / 0-)

      this MTV program was, but if it was a debate format, I'd say your decision's understandable.  Obama is awful in debate. And I say that as an Obama supporter. It's a serious weakness as a candidate, at least in this primary seas. Not sure how serious a weakness it would be up against e.g. McCain who is awful himself.

      Wonder why Obama is so weak in debate.  On the one hand, Obama as much as the other candidate(s) actually tries to answer questions, instead of veering off into canned policy statements, and maybe this has partly to do with it.  But more generally, he is pretty inconsistent at best in extemporaneous speaking. In town hall-type meetings, sometimes he's very good, sometimes not.  Charitably, I like to think this all has to do with his having a cognitive dissonance of some kind when he's before a highly heterogeneous audience. A lot of people find it more difficult to articulate things, verbally or on paper, when they don't have a clear, uniform idea of the audience.

    •  that was too hard to read (4+ / 0-)

      I hate those black webpages with light writing...but yeah: wonkette.

      I like her for the same reason I like the Goracle: a policy wonk is what is needed to design a way out of every one of these problems. Legislation can change everything. Plus get more Republicans out of our way. No other way out.

      But, wow, Obama is a movement! and that is great too, to finally wake up America...it really is so hard to decide, we have 2 fantastic candidates, each has essential qualities.

  •  Voted Hillary in California (12+ / 0-)

    Hillary is a woman that has broken barriers that have held not only woman up for years but other minority segments of the population who for some reason or another dont have not been able to persue their dreams as easily as others.

    Her courage is relentless

  •  Too ambitious for a human being (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    humphrey

    I chose that as the closest thing to my real answer, which is that she's too willing to employ dishonest dirty tricks, consequences be damned, in order to further her own ambition.  Ambition is fine, but it should not be put above the good of the party or the country, nor should it supersede the principles of honesty and integrity, and that's what she's doing.

    "Too robotic" is a fine second choice.  I don't know what the real Hillary is like exactly, but I do know it's probably not the annoying android that gives her patronizing stump speeches.  I don't like people who refuse to be themselves in public.  

    It's her fault she's like that.  People aren't born with robotic pandering in their genes.  She tries to be what she thinks people want, because she thinks that inauthenticity is the way to win.  It's a stylistic reflection of her overall tendency to pander, to tell people what she thinks they want to hear, and she deserves to be criticized for it.  She deserves to lose votes for it, because this weakness will be reflected in the way she governs.

    ---
    "If Obama is the nominee, we are doomed." -Rush Limbaugh
    "Always speak before Barack Obama, not after Barack Obama." -Olbermann

    by Troutnut on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 05:27:07 PM PDT

  •  Feel good (8+ / 0-)

    I feel good about Hillary...

    Not one national poll has ever showed Obama ahead and the national polls have showed Hillary slightly or significantly ahead.

    On average she';s probably ahead by 5 points....

    I'm feeling good...

  •  AMAZING diary! This is the line that got me: (9+ / 0-)

    But I don't see him as somebody who puts himself on the line.

    Thats how I feel about Obama. He is "offering himself up" but not putting anything on the line.

    And I LOVED the line in one of the debates where Hillary said she is "willing to go to the mat" for UHC. And I believe her on that score.

    Whereas I feel strongly that Obama would cut a deal, as he did with the energy company (see NYTimes today) and so many other issues.

    Great diary!

    We Need a New Enlightenment.

    by Palladio on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 05:32:49 PM PDT

  •  Sharpton to HIllary to Obama (6+ / 0-)

    I voted for Al last time, not because he was black, but because he made the most sense to me in the debates...

    I grew to appreciate Hillary through the fall.  No question to me that in the debates she seemed strong, presidential.  I looked at her website, read position papers.  I looked at Obama's website and read position papers.  The education position papers, well there was no question that Hillary's were better constructed.  Obama's were full of typos and partial thoughts.  It seemed to me that I was going to vote on the issue of competence... hands down for Hillary.

    But then there was the Iowa speech, then Bill's big mouth and disgusting re-entry into the public sphere with racist overtones.  And all of the young who look at Obama with such, yes, hope.  I couldn't resist, and I'll vote for Obama (in california) on Tuesday.

    But thanks for this diary.  And I really wish all the Obama supporters on this site would get a clue and represent the kind of new politics that Obama claims he represents.  If you can't respect the genuine HOPE of the Hillary supporters, your fellow progressive democrats, how the hell are we going to heal the country, bring us together, when Obama is elected.

    You know?  Be the change you want to see.  

  •  Go on with your bad self, catfish. (7+ / 0-)

    This Edwards supporter and her husband have decided to vote for her, too. I've toyed with still voting Edwards and even casting a vote for Obama to give voice to one of his most ardent supporters. She's my dear friend who is anxiously awaiting her citizenship papers and is an Obama junkie.

    But, in the end Hillary has won me over. There are a lot of good things about both of them, but it's health care, baby. That's my tipping point. I've never been a single issue voter, but I'm as close as I can get to b