'shut up about your dead sister.'

When will this kind of stuff stop?

Woman sues Ohio sheriff's deputy over 'outrageous' strip search

Hope Steffey's night started with a call to police for help. It ended with her face down, naked, and sobbing on a jail cell floor. Now, the sheriff's deputies from Stark County, Ohio who allegedly used excessive force during a strip search 15 months ago face a federal lawsuit, and recently released video won’t help their case.

Steffey's ordeal with the Stark County sheriff's deputies began after her cousin called 9-1-1 claiming Steffey had been assaulted by another one of their cousins. When a Stark County police officer arrived, he asked to see Steffey's driver's license. But instead of handing over her own ID, she mistakenly turned over her dead sister's license, which she contends she keeps in her wallet as a memento. That's when the situation became complicated.

"Hope was not treated as a victim," her lawyer told WKYC News. "The officer said to her 'shut up about your dead sister.'"

Eventually, Steffey was arrested and taken to the Stark County Jail, charged with disorderly conduct and resisting arrest. But once in custody, her attorney says seven jail workers, male and female, forcibly removed Steffey of all her clothes, including her undergarments, while she lay face down in handcuffs. Local news footage shows Steffey wailing, asking "What are you doing?!?"

I had a cop/detective tell me that they could arrest my alcoholic violent husband if he did damage to the television set before they considered his violent behaviour against me. Did he say he was going to kill you?" "No," I said. So they left. I didn't know there were priorities above my well being. Material items were more important than protecting me from a violent drunk.

Is domestic violence just a 'tame' event? Fortunately, in one way, my husband did threaten My Life after the cops left and I called 911 and then they did arrest him.

This life experience is one reason why I will vote for Hillary. I think a very important reason. Most women do understand the unforgiveable crap we still have to deal with.

Now back to the article that has me so upset. This stuff kicks in PTS for many people who have experienced violence. PTS is scary all by itself.

The lawsuit says that Steffey remained in the cell for six hours and wrapped herself in toilet paper to stay warm. During that time, she was not allowed to use a phone or seek medical assistance for injuries she accrued that night, including a cracked tooth, bulging disc, and bruises.

Although the sheriff's policy requires officers conducting any strip search to be of the same sex, the sheriff contends that the tactic used on Steffey was not actually a strip search. He also questions the validiy of the events leading up to Steffey’s arrest.

Once shown the exclusive video, Steffey’s husband was in disbelief. "You don't treat people like this," he said. "I don't think murderers are treated like this."

I know good men care about women, but I trust women more than men when it comes to the basics. That is why I would like women leadership for a change. It will be a big first step in raising the respect for women and all people.

•  tips

  "Time is for careful people, not passionate ones"

  by roseeriter on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:40:46 AM PDT

  •  i would...

    ...vote for a woman in a second...but not this woman, her being a woman doesnt even scratch making up for all the hooey for one minute for me

    by TAPayne on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:06:08 AM PDT

    •  what hooey

      by Lilipons on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:35:08 AM PDT

      •  that has to be...

        ...the most gauling question i have every been asked

        by TAPayne on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 03:19:06 PM PDT

        •  I'm serious

          what hooey are you talking about?  

          by Lilipons on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:23:49 PM PDT

  •  By your reasoning...

    You should be voting for Obama. Far more African Americans than women are abused by law enforcement officers.

    Of course, logic has no role in identity politics.

    by Sharon Jumper on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:36:16 AM PDT

  •  People need to see the video and the

    local TV station report, it's worse than the newspaper report, and more than could be included here. After she was stripped the female officers left and it was just the male officers alone with her, it wasn't a "strip search", but something else according to the full report. And there may be more tape that's being withheld.

    by raindrop on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:38:47 AM PDT

    •  This video of the search is horrific!

      by DMiller on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 08:27:33 AM PDT

•  proudly be first to tip you

  Go team Hillary! Girls rule, boys drool! ;-)

  by cataclysm on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:42:27 AM PDT

  •  Thanks-I'm still shaking over the story.

    "Time is for careful people, not passionate ones"

    by roseeriter on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:43:36 AM PDT

    •  rose

      I was laughing at the "girls rule boys drool" quote.  My 10 year old niece says it all the time and my best friend says it about cats and dogs.  So it made me laugh.  Why did you hide troll rate me?

      by Lilipons on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:20:22 AM PDT

      •  I misunderstood and fixed it

        "Time is for careful people, not passionate ones"

        by roseeriter on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:21:23 AM PDT

        •  thanks

          by Lilipons on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:34:21 AM PDT

  •  lol

    by Lilipons on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:05:04 AM PDT

    •  Now WAIT a minute.

      Exactly why is the reaction to a grade-school level quip

      Girls rule, boys drool! ;-)

      worth a zero?

      by kestrel9000 on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:14:54 AM PDT

      •  Is he laughing at that or

        my still shaking comment? I'll undo if its the latter. Sorry I'm feeling very sensitive at the moment.

        "Time is for careful people, not passionate ones"

        by roseeriter on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:16:38 AM PDT

        •  Check the parent comment.

          That "lol" is to cataclysm.

          by kestrel9000 on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:17:31 AM PDT

          •  sorry- and fixed

            "Time is for careful people, not passionate ones"

            by roseeriter on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:19:41 AM PDT

        •  it looks like it's not directed at you

          it's a response to the same comment as yours.  odds are your comment wasn't even seen when the 'lol' was typed...

          by tj iowa on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:19:46 AM PDT

        •  She

          my name sake is a woman and so am I.  If I was laughing at you I would have attached it to your comment.  but I have been a victim of domestic violence and would never laugh at your still shaking.  I am so sorry if it seemed that way.

          BTW it was when my ex could not control me with anger and threats of violence, when he could not make me cry anymore with displays of temper and verbal abuse he decided that I did not love him anymore and he walked out.  I guess I am lucky he never really hurt me or tried to kill me.  He just stole my spirit because I really thought that when he realized he could not get what he wanted with his bad behavior that he loved me enough to change.  Boy was I wrong.  I was nothing but a blow to his ego at that point and the fact that he still loved me and we had children was no match for his need to control to feel okay.

          by Lilipons on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:25:30 AM PDT

          •  I'm sorry for your past experience

            Just remember there are plenty of men still out there that just adore women and would never harm them. Thanks for your thoughful comment.

            by Psychotronicman on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:33:09 AM PDT

            •  I am hoping to meet one of those

              men one day who is not married or gay!  
              But in the meantime I will take heart that I do know men like that even if they are married and my gay friends are  wonderful to have as men in my life.

              by Lilipons on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:32:00 PM PDT

          •  I so understand and my husband left too

            He shredded my soul just with words that if one hasn't experienced verbal abuse one has no idea of the lasting damage.

            I too apologize for my over reaction.

            Peace.

            "Time is for careful people, not passionate ones"

            by roseeriter on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:34:56 AM PDT

            •  that's okay

              you didn't see where my comment was going.
              Verbal abuse might be the worst of all in some ways.
              There was physical intimidation, like breaking things, knocking stuff over, punching the wall next to my head and some shoving and grabbing and yanking my arm or holding me down. But the verbal abuse was worse.

              by Lilipons on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 05:29:26 PM PDT

•  Saw this on C&L and was dumbstruck...

  I hope they sue the crap out of those guys and own them for MILLIONS.

  What the Fuck has happened to this country?

  by DrWolfy on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:45:58 AM PDT

•  I hear what you're saying and I agree

  for the most part--I'm a woman, and have either experienced or have friends who can tell stories just like this one, far too often.

  Having a woman in charge will definitely help, but she'll still have to deal with lots of men. I don't know that this, by itself, is the only answer.

  I say that because I know of more than one woman "police officer" with less compassion about basic human decency than some men. Those are the worst--idiots with badges who have yet another layer of chip on their shoulder because they're women.

  I think that in general, compassionless law enforcement is more about a general disrespect of the Constitution (which comes from the top) and not as much about gender. All that said, the story above is disgusting, and I thank you for bringing it up for discussion.

  by o the umanity on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:51:47 AM PDT

  •  I think women have improved the police.

    Most law enforcement chiefs acknowledge that adding women has been a net positive--they don't think with their balls. (And I mean that seriously). They are proven to be more likely to be effective at talking down belligerent drunks and add balance to the force (although that is a generalization).

    I have no doubt that a disproportionate number of the wrong kind of women enter law enforcement, same as men. I had a roomate who was a cop and there are a LOT of assholes on the force. Crooked, abusive, belligerent, authoritarian assholes. Fortunately there are some good ones, but I don't trust any of them.

    by homogenius on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:02:13 AM PDT

    •  It's been my experience

      that those most drawn to law enforcement are the least suited for it. A generalization, yes, but scarily real amoung personal acquaintances who've attempted (many unsuccessfully, unable to trick the psych exams) to join police forces, in particular.

      by grndrush on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:28:00 AM PDT

      •  There are some good guys out there

        My brother is a detective in Austin, TX and I saw him cry once talking about a woman who had been brutally attacked. He really did get into the police force to help others.

        by Psychotronicman on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:35:37 AM PDT

        •  Kudos to him.

          I don't envy him the assholes he has to deal with, both on and off the force. It's hard to be an honest and caring person in that situation.

          by homogenius on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 08:36:24 AM PDT

  •  Stories such as this

    Are far more common that we would like to believe. I agree with "o the umanity" that disrespect for the Constitution greatly exacerbates the issue. I wish the solution was as simple as electing a woman president, but it's not.

    Another recent diary (I'm sorry I can't remember which one!) linked this country's fondness for capital punishment with our tolerance of torture. I think this story fits into that mix. If we allow the abominations of Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib, and dozens of American prisoners to be killed with taxpayer money every year (thousands more held in hellish death-row limbo), then why not rough up innocent average citizens for sport in Toledo or Peoria or Honolulu or New York City? Why, it wouldn't be sporting to leave average law enforcement pros out of the mix, now would it?

    Time for an ethics and values check, folks, not to mention a look in the mirror at what we're doing to ourselves when our lead law enforcement official, the Attorney General, can't bring himself to define the clearly cruel practice of waterboarding as torture.

    by earicicle on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:36:57 AM PDT

  •  The whole point of America

    was fear of unchecked authority.

    Now, taking the personal out of it and putting in the partisan, who are you going to trust more?

    a) a party that puts up for the presidency a woman who has been ridiculed, hated, slandered, demeaned, slimed, and subjected to every other form of character attack short of physical abuse by...

    b) a party that has not publicly condemned one of their until-recently leading presidential candidates for saying women should be lesser than their men

    by lgrooney on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:54:24 AM PDT

•  I would like to see a woman for president

  But

  I trust women more than men when it comes to the basics. That is why I would like women leadership for a change.

  It depends on the woman.

  by chesapeake on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:52:23 AM PDT

  •  if enough people scream loud enough

    for long enough they can convince you that there is something wrong with just about anyone.
    There is not a single reason that any good democrat would not want Hillary Clinton as President.  She is more progressive than Obama and a partisan democrat who will bring us UHC, will protect SS and will not go around praising the transformational Reagan and the republicans as the party of ideas.
    There is nothing wrong with Hillary Clinton and no reason she should not be the first female president regardless of what the screamers have said for months.

    by Lilipons on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:11:26 AM PDT

    •  Iraq

      I'd love to vote for a woman who had the courage to stand up and resist the rush to invade a country that had no connection to 9/11 and was no threat to us.  I'd love to vote for a woman who has the courage to call "bullshit" on the propaganda against Iran. I'd love to vote for a woman who is strong enough to oppose senseless violence in our foreign policy, because violence isn't just something that happens between two individuals. It's much worse when one country does it to another, simply because of the number of people involved.

      by elmo on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:32:39 AM PDT

      •  Iraq is a complex issue

        There is American safety on one hand, and there is a risk that thing will get escalate international on the other hand.   This is the summary of her speech in the senate explain the rational for her vote.

        "So it is with conviction that I support this resolution as being in the best interests of our nation. A vote for it is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President and we say to him - use these powers wisely and as a last resort.  Thank you, Mr. President"

        Of cause Bush didn't have enough wisdom to use this power, and didn't use as a last resort.  If you read the whole speech, you will understand that the use of force is a threat to force Saddam to accept the UN inspection team.  How else you can force Saddam to take it seriously that the world is coming to check if he has chemical weapon or not?  

        For Iran case, I was seriously incline to the believe that Iran MIGHT have nuclear weapon, before the report comes out that they have none.  How about you?  Were you also scare that they might have something?  They are very aggressive against US and western idea.  They refuse to believe the holocaust. The problem here is Bush government should have study the intelligent report and lead us according.  He's the one that have access to it.   He's like a boy with a gun.  Not capable to handle firearm.  But of cause we were the one that voted the boy into the office.

        Old men start war.
        Young men fight them.
        Everybody in the middle got killed.

        We need a capable woman to change this mentality.

        by JoeySky18 on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 08:05:17 AM PDT

        •  Anyone who took five minutes of fact checking

          could determine with some accuracy that the case for invading Iraq was flimsy bullshit. I did it myself armed only with an internet connection and "google."

          The propaganda against Iran is just as flimsy, and it's coming from the same folks who already proved themselves liars with their case against Iraq.

          Please don't let yourself be fooled yet again. Human lives are at stake.

          by elmo on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 10:53:08 AM PDT

    •  Oh, I don't know.

      I suppose she's probably better than John McCain, if it ever came to that, but I can think of a few reasons.

      by DelRPCV on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:33:33 AM PDT

  •  I do believe

    that Obama would be as sensitive to this issue as Hillary, if not moreso.

    That's not to say Hillary would be "insensitive" to the issue, at all.

    In reality, this particular issue isn't really one the POTUS has a lot of control over, outside the 'bully pulpit'. Policing is a local issue.

    by grndrush on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:31:27 AM PDT

    •  Agree

      Obama forced the Illinois legislature to require videotaped confessions in capital cases and also introduced and got passed a good law protecting victims of domestic violence and abuse.  It is primarily a state issue, and underscores the importance of electing good people at the state level in every state.

      by DelRPCV on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:36:21 AM PDT

•  And if there was no tape?!

  If would be "he said, she said" and she'd be buried under the jail.

  It's a shame when law enforcement becomes the problem rather than the solution!

  by DevonTexas on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:59:08 AM PDT

•  as we march, lemming like, towards

  a more controlling, more fascist, more surveilled state, all because Bush inflicted never-ending fear into our lives (rather than treat 9/11 appropriately), simply for temporary political gain, we are going to see many more stories like this.

  When you apply that old, but still relevant adage that "power corrupts", and apply it to today's local constables, trouble is bound to follow.

  Here in the burbs of Chicago, there are two distinct types of police. One group, small, professional, proud of their education, training, and abilities are respected. the other, larger and scary group, wield their power with a swagger. small minds, bigger bellies, and large guns. They usually load up their cars with as many lights as physically possible. The more numerous the lights, the lower the quality of policing.

  by agnostic on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:02:04 AM PDT

•  the problem...

  ...with the police these days is the authoratarian training model they are using...

  by TAPayne on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:08:17 AM PDT

  •  oh and they are...

    ...rejecting candidates who score too high on the intellegence tests

    by TAPayne on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:09:59 AM PDT

•  Even more frightening

  You can bet they won't have any cameras taping what is going to go down in the Blackwater run gulags in Texas.

  This story is horrible and I hope she bankrupts the local government for their crime against her. Thanks roseeriter for keeping this story on the front page.

  by Psychotronicman on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:11:25 AM PDT

•  Oh my God.

  Just, oh my God.

  by nupstateny on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:13:42 AM PDT

  •  makes you afraid to call

    the police huh?

    by Lilipons on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:30:49 AM PDT

    •  I knew they were bad, depending

      on where you are, but this makes every chamber of my soul cringe.  

      by nupstateny on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 10:20:36 AM PDT

•  We need to speak out more...

  this story is disturbing.  It reminds me of my own letter to the editor about an illegal roadside search of my car.  The letter sits unsent.  Not anything near what this woman went through, of course.  But many citizens do not know their rights when it comes to the police, and most let episodes of harrassment pass, until something so horrible happens that it must get attention.  

  I guess what I'm saying is, give them an inch and they will take a mile.  People (myself included) must speak out about illegal police tactics.  If you have an elected sheriff, hit him/her where politicians notice.  Or the mayor, or whoever is an elected official, whose office can be threatened.

  My sympathies to Ms. Steffey.

  by gooners on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:23:17 AM PDT

•  I honestly don't see how this relates

  to Clinton or "Women Presidents". The story you tell here is not about men abusing women as a class - it's about cops abusing "civilians" (as they call us disdainfully). They didn't strip her and leave her naked as a male-on-female sexual aggression, but as generalized aggression against those weaker than themselves.

  I seriously doubt that a female president would have any more effect on this than a black president, or a brown president, or ... This is a separate issue from domestic violence, one that doesn't pit males against females, but free citizens against authoritarian police.

  by RandomSequence on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:29:22 AM PDT

  •  Hillary is an authoritarian.

    She will promote policies which will make such abuses more likley. It is also worth noting that two female officers took an active role in the sexual assault depicted in the video. Truly disturbing stuff, but to be expected when the government uses fear to solidify their power.

    Only Barack Obama has rejected the politics of fear. This diary only serves to increase fear by suggesting that men as a group should be held responsible for this abomination and that women must support Hillary out of a fear of men.

    Screwed up thinking on so many levels.

    by tampa traveler on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:39:01 AM PDT

    •  Huh?

      I support Obama.  But this . . .

      Hillary is an authoritarian

      is TR worthy.

      by Same As It Ever Was on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:54:44 AM PDT

    •  Groundless

      by JoeySky18 on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 08:07:55 AM PDT

    •  This is garbage comment

      The only time it would be uprated is now, during the primary wars.  Any other time, rational kossacks would TR this into oblivion.  Consider yourself lucky.

      by DMiller on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 08:35:17 AM PDT

  •  It does relate

    The original arresting officer refused to hear her pleas and muscled her into the police car. Why? Because he was physically a lot stronger than she was and he could do it without risking injury.

    Now if it had been me they would have needed to make a stop at the hospital for myself and the six officers it would have taken to get me into the police car. They would have been spitting teeth by the time they tazed me into submission. He would have listened to me because if he didn't he would face a reasonably dangerous opponent. Cowards never like that.  

    by Psychotronicman on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:45:57 AM PDT

    •  that's so funny.

      i could picture the scene quite clearly from your explanation.  Yeah, kick their assess.!

      by JoeySky18 on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 08:14:14 AM PDT

    •  Remember the taser...

      Most "civilians" are easily physically imposed upon. For starters, quite a few police officers are body-builders or steroid users. Then you've got the taser for the few percentage that can really out-muscle a cop.

      If you really think that you could have gotten them spitting teeth, you are under a severe illusion about their tendency to move toward tasers and batons and then cite you for resisting arrest.

      It's not a feminism issue. It's a citizenship issue, a respect for the community.

      by RandomSequence on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 09:53:53 AM PDT

      •  You missed my point

        The entire incident would never have happened to a man because the threat of dangerous confrontation would have given the police officer pause to listen.

        The minute I realized what he was up to I would have meekly acted cowed and then when he wasn't ready for it jumped his ass and made him eat the street. The cops would certainly have beaten the shit out of me but not before I got a few good licks in.

        by Psychotronicman on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 10:17:36 AM PDT

        •  BS

          You just haven't been paying attention. First, most guys aren't physically dominant over most cops - most guys don't spend most of their lives in the gym, or take steroids, or are under 35. Second, most cops are extremely itchy fingered, and since most people who are being arrested aren't planning "to act cowed and then jump his ass", but instead start mouthing off right away if they're going to be trouble, you get the taser before you get your chance.

          In short, you're either extremely unusual (and therefore irrelevant in general), or extremely delusional. Unless you're six four and 240, it doesn't matter whether you're male or female - you are not physically intimidating to a police officer. And if you are a giant, they're going to kick your ass on principle before you get a chance.

          The one thing they will be respectful of isn't physical threat, but political threat. If you appear to be wealthy and well-connected, they will be nervous about abusing you, because they know it'll come back to bite them in the ass. But that only works if they're not already worked up - because no one plans ahead once they've got the adrenaline going.

          by RandomSequence on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 10:25:59 AM PDT

          •  You're off by eight pounds and two inches

            And I am in very good shape. I guarantee they'll listen to me. If only to avoid stitches.

            by Psychotronicman on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 10:48:34 AM PDT

            •  Then you're not quite aware

              of the relationship of most men with the cops. American men average at 5'10 and are out of shape ; that means a lot of men are 5'5 and the only way they'll knock out teeth is with a quick head butt (which will land you in the hospital, if not the morgue).

              Why do you think so many cops are on 'roids if it didn't work to physically intimidate most people (male and female)? You may be a lucky one; most men are not.

              by RandomSequence on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 10:52:34 AM PDT

              •  I've had more than my share of confrontations

                with gestapo wannabe's but I have also seen how they interact with other men versus women. A crazed man at 5'5 is much more dangerous than most women. Most of these 'roid freaks are bullies by nature and bullies are always wary of getting into a fair fight even with a little guy. Little guys kick ass too.

                I know it sounds silly but watch 'Cops' for an example. When they reply to a call involving women they always move in quickly and physically intimidate the suspect. But when it involves a situation with men they usually spend a lot more time talking to them and trying to calm them so there will be no confrontation. The aren't afraid of women but unless the guy is in a wheelchair and weighs 120 they are much more careful.

                by Psychotronicman on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 11:01:09 AM PDT

                •  Tell Abidou Diallo.

                  Being male has a big effect on criminals, because any physical confrontation that gets out of hand is likely to end you up in jail. The gestapo wannabes are often looking for an excuse to turn it into a fight; they get off on it as long as it's not too risky.

                  As I said, I've seen a much bigger difference based on perceived wealth and class than in gender. The cops are much less likely to try to intimidate a 120 pound white woman in a Mercedes with a law degree than a six foot black guy in his hoopty - they really, really don't want to taze her, or leave her with bruises. The black guy may just be a bit of fun if they outnumber him in the right context.

                  It's not mostly about gender, it's about what you can get away with.

                  by RandomSequence on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 11:24:00 AM PDT

•  Horrific story

  But not uncommon enough, for damn sure.

  by Montague on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:44:36 AM PDT

•  Cllinton Cops

  

  7 year old Elian Gonzalez being taken in to custody by Clinton's department of Justice.  Janet Reno (a female) was head of DOJ.  And we should all remember the WACO massacre.

  by Fools on the Hill on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:56:18 AM PDT

  •  And how is that got to do with Hillary Clinton?

    What you can say is "I don't want Janet Reno as head of DOJ again".

    But to sum all female up and judge them together like that is a bit shallow.

    Waco was wacko, and has nothing of merit in judging Hillary Clinton's presidency.

    by JoeySky18 on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 08:12:11 AM PDT

    •  What does the case cited in this diary

      have to do with Hillary Clinton?  And the diarist sums people up entirely by gender, with no regard for differing individuality, a sort of biological determinism which has always been the antithesis of feminism, an attitude historically usesd to hold women down.

      by ActivistGuy on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 08:19:06 AM PDT

      •  Some women relate better to women- Can you get

        that?

        "Time is for careful people, not passionate ones"

        by roseeriter on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 08:22:16 AM PDT

      •  Sorry, I think you misunderstood my point.

        I do agree that we should not sum all female together and make the judgement.

        I also believe that candidates should be judged on their merit.  Loosing using the word Clinton's cop to use that events to critic Hillary Clinton's merit is unfair.  
        I want to stop this sound bite accusation based on partial facts.

        But I do believe that Hillary Clinton is the best candidate for the Presidency judging by her merit.  It's just happen that she is female.

        by JoeySky18 on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 08:27:32 AM PDT