Daily Kos

Obama's Troubling Policy Advisors

Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:09:48 AM PDT

Obama advisors like Zbigniew Brzezinski give cause for concern. Brzezinski has been an eminence gris in US politics for almost half a century, beginning with the Kennedy administration. Brzezinski presently serves as an international advisor to several major US/global corporations, and is president of Z.B., Inc., a firm that advises corporations and financial institutions on international issues. Brzezinski was a co-founder of the Trilateral Commission with David Rockefeller to protect the interests of global capital.

Further, on domestic policy Obama advisor and globalist Austan Goolsbee says globalizationis responsible for only a "small fraction" of today's income disparities.

More on why I think the Obama campaign is tarnished by having the hawkish Brzezinski and the Yale Bonesman Goolsbee as policy advisors below...........

Brzezinski might be familiar to some from his years of service to presidents beginning with Kennedy. He then became even more familiar due to his association with Carter's disastrous foreign policy. Brzezinski href="http://www.counterpunch.org/brzezinski.html"knew that the official date of US aid to Afghani Mujahadeen was 1980, after the Soviet invasion. However, he also knew a secret that he had helped administer as national security adviser.

Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.

As to Brzezinski's attitude towards his participation in the intervention, bold mine:

Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter: We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.

snip........

What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

Brzezinski was born in Poland into a diplomatic family (his father formed the Candian Polish Congress after the Soviet takeover of Poland) and is a rabid Russianophobe. I leave it to readers to decide whether or not Brzezinski used balanced judgment in his assessment of the aid to the Mujahadeen, some of whom may now be found among the ranks of Taliban and Al Qaeda.

The other advisor who makes me question the Obama advisory team is an economist. According the the New York Times, for which he writes, "Austan Goolsbee is a professor of economics at the University of Chicago Graduate School of Business and a research fellow at the American Bar Foundation. He is advising the campaign of Senator Barack Obama of Illinois for the Democratic presidential nomination."

Goolsbee is another free trader. From the article cited above,  "60 to 70 percent of the (US) economy faces virtually no international competition." With 70 percent of our economy based on consumer purchasing, that begs the question as to the impact of international competition. Of course, America's 18.5 million government employees have little to fear from free trade; so do auto mechanics, dentists and many others. However when we are outsourcing everything from software engineering to auto parts manufacturing, the rest of us have reason for concern.

Goolsbee is reported to have told Obama not to back a compulsory freeze on home mortgage foreclosures to help the struggling middle class in the current depression crisis, as demanded by former candidate John Edwards. Hillary Clinton has advocated a one-year voluntary freeze on foreclosures. Obama has offered counselors to comfort mortgage victims as they are dispossessed, citing the 'moral hazard' of protecting the public interest from Wall Street sharks.

The two advisors gave me pause, Brzezinski for his hatred of Russia. He has been referred to as Obama's Rove. The conservative Economist blog enthused (bold mine):

Zbigniew Brzezinski, national security adviser to Jimmy Carter, blames all three post-cold-war presidents for wasting America's moment of supremacy. In his recent book, “Second Chance”, he praises George Bush senior for his handling of the collapse of Soviet communism with “delicacy and skill” but gives him only a B grade for failing to exploit the victory in Kuwait in 1991 to resolve the Arab-Israeli conflict. He gives Bill Clinton a mediocre C for his vacillation. George Bush junior gets an unforgiving F for his “catastrophic leadership”. The most powerful image of America, says Mr Brzezinski, is no longer the Statue of Liberty but the prison camp at Guantánamo Bay. Unless Mr Bush's successor takes urgent steps to restore America's political and moral standing, he says, “the crisis of American superpower will become terminal”, and the epoch of American dominance will be shortened.

The Economist also has commentary on Professor Goolsbee. From the Economist:

Judging by the advisers surrounding him, Mr Obama may end up with more market-oriented ideas elsewhere too. While the Clinton economic team is run by experienced practitioners, Mr Obama relies on his Senate staff and a growing group of young academics, all of whom have impeccable neoclassical credentials. At the centre is Mr Goolsbee, a 37-year-old public-finance whizz.

A critique of this approach concludes that neoclassicists:

have the idea that economics is a physical rather than a social science that has nothing to learn from other disciplines. They cling to the notion that their models are not tainted by the subjectivity that confuses other social sciences. Chicago School affiliate George Stigler once scornfully remarked that “without mathematics, we’d be reduced to the caviling of sociologists and the like.” The 1969 introduction of the Nobel prize in economics – which Stigler won in 1982 – seems to have fueled these delusions of grandeur.

snip.........

Critics of neoclassical economics chuckle at the the idea that its precepts can withstand the rigor of the scientific process. They argue that Homo economicus – the theoretical self-interested ‘everyman’ that economists base their analyses on – is a misrepresentation of human nature. The model does not account for structural factors and altruism, and assumes rather ambitiously that peoples’ choices are guided by perfect rationality.

The reliability of this and other neoclassical economic models would be irrelevant to the wider world if the prescriptions of Stigler and his ilk were confined to the halls of academia. But the Chicago School had an enormous influence on governments and helped set the tone for the era of fervent free-enterprise boosterism, market liberalization and privatization that swept the globe during the 1980s and 1990s. Their thinking has also helped shape the International Monetary Fund and World Bank directives that have only managed to widen the gap between the rich and poor.

I don't think Brzezinski and Goolsbee add to the potential for a more progressive government. My conclusion is that they add to the potential for continued US involvement in warfare on the foreign and domestic economy policy sides. These two make me very wary of Obama's foreign and domestic policy, and indicate a center/right tilt that could hamper our economic recovery from the disatrous Cheney/Bush policies.

Tags: Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Auslan Goolsbee, US foreign policy, US domestic policy, presidential campaign (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 114 comments

  •  TJ & comments........... (9+ / 0-)

    Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks. Jimmy Wales

    by 4Freedom on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:09:35 AM PDT

    •  A couple of thoughts (13+ / 0-)

      How is this controversial (or why did you boldface this in a diary that is supposedly showing the trouble with Obama's advisors)?:

      The most powerful image of America, says Mr Brzezinski, is no longer the Statue of Liberty but the prison camp at Guantánamo Bay. Unless Mr Bush's successor takes urgent steps to restore America's political and moral standing, he says, "the crisis of American superpower will become terminal", and the epoch of American dominance will be shortened.

      Seems to me that he's right on the money.

      And how is surrounding oneself with people with a wide range of ideas troubling? Isn't that what we want in a president, a leader who listens to everything and then makes the best decision based on the information?

      And three. Please give me a break with the Karl Rove references. The Democratic version of Kark Rove is Mark "cocaine" Penn. The campaign that has run the most Rovian campaign is easily the one who has been playing dog whistle race-baiting politics. And that campaign isn't Obama's.

      "I will fight for my country, but I will not lie for her. " -- Zora Neale Hurston

      by blueintheface on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:16:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think that this is an over-reach too (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        cfaller96

        Of course, if this diary had been written about the Clinton campaign's advisors, there would have been massive hooray and pile-on.

        "Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one." - Friedrich Nietzsche

        by ActivatedbyBush on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:23:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Noted.....view the responses. nt (0+ / 0-)

          Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks. Jimmy Wales

          by 4Freedom on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:26:14 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  But How About Something That's Not... (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            Sharon Jumper

            ...a 30 year old conspiracy theory?  The Trilateral Commission?  Seriously, that's what you're going to raise flags about?  

            And quoting Counterpunch is a good way to not be taken seriously.  Alexander Cockburn is a hack.  

            The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

            by DHinMI on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:59:44 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The Trilateral Commission is a Rockefeller (0+ / 0-)

              device which Brzezinski implemented. There is so much information linking David Rockefeller with global machinations that the Commission is only one of his efforts.

              It is understood that the Clintons are globalists as well as is Brzezinski. But Brzezinski's links to Rockefeller go right to the heart of what is potentially wrong with the Obama candidacy. Obama is not his own man on foreign policy, and his lineup of advisors has a tilt that is not only globalist, but even more pro-corporate than Hillary's, IMO.

              Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks. Jimmy Wales

              by 4Freedom on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 01:43:46 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  If they were writing about Mark Penn, Wolfson, (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          nightsweat, 4Freedom

          Michael O'Hanlon, or Sandy Berger, I think those responses would be justified. But Hillary has advisors that I still admire, even if there are criticized. Madeline Albright pops to mind.

          "I will fight for my country, but I will not lie for her. " -- Zora Neale Hurston

          by blueintheface on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:31:51 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  True, but... (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          ActivatedbyBush

          I'd rather not see these diaries anymore, for either candidate.  Anyone who pays attention to the advisors of a candidate are informed to the point that they have most likely already made up their mind.

          But yeah, Brzezinski is a troubling advisor for Obama.  As is Mark Penn.  So this enlightens voters how?  Seems a wash to me.

          Civic spirit drowns in a hurricane of mere survivalism - McKenzie Wark

          by cfaller96 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:33:11 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It will matter when and if either one takes (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            lanikai, 4Freedom

            office.

            •  You missed my point. (0+ / 0-)

              I'm not saying that the advisors don't matter, I'm saying that at this stage in the campaign the advisers aren't going to sway any voters either way.  Anyone who pays attention to that stuff has already made up his/her mind.

              Of course the advisors matter overall.  I guess I didn't make that clear.

              Civic spirit drowns in a hurricane of mere survivalism - McKenzie Wark

              by cfaller96 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:42:56 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I haven't made up my mind which is (3+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                lanikai, 4Freedom, cfaller96

                why I am torturing myself with this level of detail actually.  Basically, at this point I am going to vote for Edwards unless either candidate can push me into their column with some new piece of information.  I am not likely going to be turned off by either more than I am already, but then again, stranger things have happened in political contests so I won't be saying "never" or "it's impossible".  I was hoping to find something that I really liked about either one that would inspire me, but that hasn't happened so far.

                •  Here's waht madeup my mind - bipartisanship (2+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  inclusiveheart, 4Freedom

                  I am opposed to Obama's insinuation that if only the Democrats were more civil and bipartisan and open all would be fine. His extending his presidential hand to the Republicans is fine - after the crooks are prosecuted.

                  Now, neither of the candidates have issued a suicidal pledge to prosecute the Republicans for their illegal war, K Street corruption, the castration of the Justice Dept, etc. That would end their chances in the GE.

                  Also, I don't believe in trust in picking candidates. But I do believe...you can say "trust" but I really think it's more than that but...I believe that Hillary will go for them. Obama, I believe, will extend his hand...

                  We never got closure on Watergate and it's the same crooks who have ruined this world today.

                  We never got closure on Iran Contra and it's the same crooks today.

                  We never got justice for what we did in South America and it's the same vicious crooks today up to the same crimes.

                  These new young voters so enamored with Obama are depending on a better future...it is up to us to make sure that these same crooks - who have bred a whole new generation of foreign policy criminals - are finally dealt with for good.

                  I want every nook and cranny searched, I want every org chart, every procedure manual, every contract inspected for the Bush/Cheney legacy and cleansed. I want justice and extending a hand is NOT the way to get it.

                  Do I want revenge or vengence? No, I want justice for the rule of law and to universally plant an official scarlet X on every Kagin and Kristol and Cheney and Bush standing in the wings waiting for their chance. I don't see Obama doing that and I do see Hillary getting closure once and for all.

                  Nothing will work until that is done, Cheney has seen to that.
                   

                  HR 676 is the best health reform proposal worth my vote.

                  by kck on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 12:18:02 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Iraq... (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  pHunbalanced

                  If Iraq is the important issue, then do we really want to be having "nuance battles" with McCain and the braindead Traditional Media?  Electability becomes an issue when the Dem nominee voted to go to war, stubbornly refuses to admit it was a mistake, yet bizarrely promises to "fix" that non-mistake.  My head is spinning trying to explain how we get her elected with that albatross, but with Obama we have a clear break from that, and a genuine point of contrast with McCain on Iraq- one wants to be there for 100 years, the other didn't want to go in to begin with.

                  If getting out of Iraq is the first issue for the next president, then Obama represents a golden opportunity to get a general election mandate to do just that.  Give it some thought.

                  Civic spirit drowns in a hurricane of mere survivalism - McKenzie Wark

                  by cfaller96 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 12:19:24 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Uh -- Nuance battles? (1+ / 0-)

                    He's for an indefinite presence of combat forces in Iraq, she is for a pullout with timetables.  

                    Good that Obama gave a speech denouncing the war when he was not in Congress.  Aplaud him for that.  Of course where has he been on ending the war now that he is in office?  Not in the front row.

                    "Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one." - Friedrich Nietzsche

                    by ActivatedbyBush on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 12:43:59 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  No, she's not. (0+ / 1-)

                      Hidden by:
                      ActivatedbyBush

                      In the last debate, she wouldn't commit to a timeframe, IIRC.  Obama said 15 months, and she hemmed and hawed.  Correct me if I'm wrong, though, cuz I didn't TiVo it or anything.

                      But to a certain extent, that's besides the point.  I mean really, how obtuse do you have to believe that the same people and the same media that thrashed Kerry for his Purple Hearts are going to suddenly play it fair and honorable with a Dem who voted for the war and STILL doesn't think it was a mistake?  Do you honestly believe that the waters won't be muddy and muddied with Clinton, McCain, and Iraq?

                      On Iraq, Obama represents a clear contrast from McCain, even to the media.  If Obama is nominated, I'd bet McCain and Co. decide to just not talk about Iraq, in the hopes that no one will notice the contrast.  That will NOT be the case with Clinton.

                      Civic spirit drowns in a hurricane of mere survivalism - McKenzie Wark

                      by cfaller96 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 12:55:21 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I guess pretty obtuse (1+ / 0-)

                        Recommended by:
                        4Freedom

                        I happen to think that (1) they will come after us whichever candidate it is, and that Obama is fresher meat for their grinder and (2) Clinton can successfully make the choice clear on Iraq -- McCain is after all the guy who proclaimed that we should be in Iraq for 100 years. Or something like that.

                        "Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one." - Friedrich Nietzsche

                        by ActivatedbyBush on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 02:23:07 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

      •  Brzezinski is concerned with America as a (4+ / 0-)

        superpower in "crisis", and he seeks to extend the "epoch of American dominance".

        The "crisis" exists because of policy failures that Brzezinski may well continue with his belligerent approach to foreign relations, especially his anti-Russian sentiments.

        American "dominance" is a questionable attribute at best.

        Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks. Jimmy Wales

        by 4Freedom on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:29:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Russia is a problem right now. (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Sharon Jumper

          Brzezinksi saying it doesn't make me wrong. They are killing journalists and putting the Iron Curtain back up on their society.

          I don't believe in a beligerent foreign policy, and whatever Brzezinski says, I think we have to take with a grain of salt. Obama has been criticized for being too open to diplomacy, if he has an advisor who argues a more hawkish view, I don't think it's a problem in and of itself, it's called waying all of your options.

          So I don't think we have to worry about him perpetuating Bush's cowboy diplomacy, Obama's already been very clear on how he would approach foreign relations. And to ignore those statements while focusing on the beliefs of an advisor who may have said some things who Obama has already publically disagreed with is selective concern, at best.

          "I will fight for my country, but I will not lie for her. " -- Zora Neale Hurston

          by blueintheface on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:38:30 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Chechnya is another place the Brzezinski (0+ / 0-)

            influence could prove difficult.

            This is relevant today because of the importance of the Russian gas pipelines to European gas supplies, which pass through Chechnya. Mark Brzezinski, Zbig's son, had this to say of Chechnya's former leader, whom his father helped get asylum in the US.

            "How would Americans feel if Russia offered sanctuary to Osama bin Laden?" demanded Pravda.ru, the nationalist online reincarnation of the propaganda organ of the Communist Party.

            Yet this is what America, with the assistance of Brzezinski senior has done.

            Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks. Jimmy Wales

            by 4Freedom on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 12:19:32 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Again, you're making the assumption that (0+ / 0-)

              Brzezinski will be calling the shots and getting the foreign policy initiatives that he has wants. He is an advisor to a candidate who has proven that he can think for himself.

              "I will fight for my country, but I will not lie for her. " -- Zora Neale Hurston

              by blueintheface on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 01:45:10 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Brzezinski has influenced foreign policy well (0+ / 0-)

                beyond what you seem to credit. I cited the Carter machinations in Afghanistan with Brzezinski pulling the strings earlier, as he did under Clinton.

                There is still backwash from his efforts.

                Iraq provides terrorists with “a training ground, a recruitment ground, the opportunity for enhancing technical skills,” David B. Low, national intelligence officer for transnational threats, tells Dana Priest of the Washington Post. “Iraq has replaced Afghanistan as the training ground for the next generation of ‘professionalized’ terrorists,” Priest summarized.

                .........

                Brzezinski even bragged about it to a French newspaper, Nouvel Observateur, a few years back. The Afghan Mujaheddin—and Osama bin Laden’s so-called al-Qaeda—were created by the CIA, Pakistan’s ISI, and Britain’s MI6. As Brzezinski told CNN in 1997, the U.S. collaborated “with the Saudis, the Egyptians, the British, the Chinese, and we started providing weapons to the Mujaheddin,” ostensibly to get rid of the Soviets in Afghanistan (note that the U.S. began training and funding the Mujaheddin and what the Washington Post and other corporate newspapers would ultimately call “al-Qaeda” before the Soviets invaded Afghanistan). “The full story of the productive (sic) U.S.-China cooperation directed against the Soviet Union (especially in regard to Afghanistan), initiated by the Carter Administration and continued under Reagan, still remains to be told,” Brzezinski wrote in his book, The Geostrategic Triad.

                Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks. Jimmy Wales

                by 4Freedom on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 02:16:47 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  But what if we like America having power? (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Sharon Jumper, RubyGal

          And being able to lead on the causes of peace, democracy, human rights, the environment and economic justice. Mind you, under Bush our efforts on behalf of these causes have been either laughably wrong-headed or non-existent.

          But under other presidents, it has been otherwise. And by the way, though I'm not currently in the business of saying very nice things about Bill Clinton, I think under him American foreign policy struck a much better balance on this than under previous presidents, but he did so certainly by exercising when appropriate American military power.

          Like Obama, I believe in American exceptionalism. I don't this should be expressed as empire, but by the force of our example and our encouragement, and only in the most dire of instances by our actual military power.

          Ironically enough, you are expressing an anti-imperialist sentiment while speaking out in favor of Hillary Clinton. She seems for obvious reasons much more eager to exert American force around the world.

          •  "Obvious reasons" aren't exactly obvious. (0+ / 0-)

            If you would care to site the obvious, then it might become moreso.

            Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks. Jimmy Wales

            by 4Freedom on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 12:21:08 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Four letters, starts with "I" and ends in horror. (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Sharon Jumper
              •  As has been endlessly repeated, Obama made (0+ / 0-)

                his right vote once, and has been funding the conflict ever since, or, as Kucinich would have put it, making the wrong choices ever since.

                Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks. Jimmy Wales

                by 4Freedom on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 01:37:04 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  We are engaged in a comparative exercise. (0+ / 0-)

                  We are describing a choice between (a) and (b). If (a) and (b) have been making the same choices with respect to a given policy (here, continued funding of the war) then we must look to where they have made different choices in order for us to choose between them. So I don't know what you think you're doing by framing this attack against Barack Obama for doing something his only real competitor in the Democratic race did as well.

                  If you intend this as a statement in solidarity with Kucinich or Gravel that's fine with me, but it seems as if you are acting not in support of them but of Clinton, which seems outright wrongheaded considering the point you're making.

                  Because that one choice Obama got right Clinton got wrong. And like it or not, it was not over a small thing.

                  •  Obama's choice was also made as a junior (0+ / 0-)

                    congressional. He did not have the Clinton "baggage" at the point he made his vote. He was representing the wishes of his constituents.

                    Clinton cast the vote most of the rest of the congressionals did, and I didn't like it or agree with it. It still rankles that congress voted as it did, and Clinton voted as she did. Yes it was a big thing, and she was wrong.

                    They have both been wrong in continuing the conflict. My only point in this exercise is that I have the faint hope that a Clinton presidency will be a flexible, accomodating presidency that will combine good management skills with good foreign and domestic policy skills. It is only my opinion, but I do believe Hillary Clinton offers the prospect of better leadership, given her qualities of character and experience.

                    And I hope to high heavens this proves to be true. There are truly no assurances that either individual can handle the crises one of them will inherit. The economic challenges alone make the 2009 presidency a difficult and dangerous term. Couple these with the foreign policy entanglements and whoever is incoming faces the most critical job on the planet.

                    Whoever it is, we need them to be able to be competent and even-handed. My tilt is Clinton, but I am not that partisan.

                    Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks. Jimmy Wales

                    by 4Freedom on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 02:29:55 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Wriggle room, but no real answers. (0+ / 0-)

                      To put it simply, you've offered no real evidence of a compelling argument for anti-war voters to support Hillary Clinton. Especially when she is refusing to say exactly when she will have our troops out by, whereas Obama says he will end the occupation of Iraq sixteen months into his presidency, and especially when her foreign policy critique of him is based on her condemnation of his willing to talk with leaders of nations with whom the U.S. disagrees without pre-conditions, I just can't wrap my head around why someone with the views you claim to have would support Clinton.

                      •  My Clinton support was after first Kucinich (0+ / 0-)

                        then Edwards left the race.

                        For me, all that remains is my take on who I believe will make a better, more effective, hence a more peaceful president. I am strongly anti-war, and believe the anti-war perspective will be better received under a Clinton presidency than an Obama one. I do not have the confidence in Obama with the advisors he has.

                        Clinton, I believe, has the strength of character to resist the warmongers, especially with a military moderate like Wesley Clark to advise her.

                        Clark said in 2006, "If the administration won't adopt a winning strategy, then the American people will be justified in demanding that it bring our troops home." That is what most Americans now want, and I look to a Clinton presidency to make that happen.

                        Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks. Jimmy Wales

                        by 4Freedom on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 04:22:22 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

    •  Get some perspective (8+ / 0-)

      The Soviets and the Cold War were a far bigger threat and drain on our economy than the Taliban or al Qaeda have ever been.

      The US has been sucking wind for the past seven years, but many parts of the world are far better off.

      •  The Soviet "threat" was another manufacture (0+ / 0-)

        of corporate America to further engage us in profitable arms production. Much has been written on this, and if you want references, jump back in.

        As long as we continue to let corporate warmongers dictate foreign policy, our country will be less secure and there will be fewer funds for domestic programs. This is a potential I see with an Obama presidency.

        Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks. Jimmy Wales

        by 4Freedom on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:34:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I need no "references" (4+ / 0-)

          I was an analyst at NSA. I didn't just "read" about threats.

        •  Whoa, come back to the reservation huckleberry! (5+ / 0-)

          The Soviet threat was a THREAT, not a "threat".  They had/have thousands of nuclear weapons, a military force that dwarfed ours (and Western Europe), and their de facto occupation of most of Eastern Europe was not something to shrug off in terms of their intentions to the rest of Europe and the world.  The Soviets were not a "manufactured" threat, that was real.

          How old are you?  Methinks you were born after 1980, which means you essentially have no meaningful memories of the Cold War and the Nuclear Holocaust that hung over our heads for generations.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

          Civic spirit drowns in a hurricane of mere survivalism - McKenzie Wark

          by cfaller96 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:47:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Don't Have to Be Young (3+ / 0-)

            If you trust the likes of Stalinist-apologists like Alexander Cockburn--note the reference in this diary to Counterpunch--you can believe a lot of stupid claptrap about how the USSR was benevolent, or maybe no more of a threat to the anyone than, say, Andorra.  After all, some of those guys are still apologizing for Lukashenko in Belarus, or defending the honor of that great Communist Slobodan Milosovic.  

            The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

            by DHinMI on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 12:06:33 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I remember the Cold War, and I also read from (0+ / 0-)

              non-American information sources during that era. I have worked in a defense-related industry and on Wall Street, and do have some understanding of the sentiments of Americans and Russians at that time.

              I'm well aware of Soviet armaments and occupation of many states. However, the sentiment in the Soviet Union was no more hawkish than that of the average American. Then, as now, most hawks were in the leadership class, and the populace did not want war.

              One of my theses is that most people the world over do not want war. That is why electing the right people to the right position is of importance. With his lack of foreign policy experience, Obama will be more reliant on advisors than will Clinton. Hence my conclusion that we may have a more peaceful presidency under her leadership than we would the advisor-dependent Obama.

              I am not giving way to sweeping assumptions here. What I do find is that the greater unknowns in the Obama camp are less reassuring of a peaceful future for our country than the somwhat tainted knowns in the Clinton camp.

              Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks. Jimmy Wales

              by 4Freedom on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 12:34:23 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Critique of Neoclassical Econ by Adbusters?! (6+ / 0-)

      Thanks for the laugh!  All that article proved is that the writer doesn't even understand neoclassical economic theory :)

    •  Do you honestly think ... (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      DHinMI, LNK

      Obama is or would be more hawkish than Clinton? His voting record and his talking record put him well on the less hawkish side. is Obama a true, pure progressive? No. Is he a helluva a lot closer than Clinton? Yes. Were Kucinich or Edwards still running, this diary may have had a point. Maybe. In a Clinton v Obama race, it's kind of silly.

      •  Given the clot of advisors Obama has around him, (0+ / 0-)

        yes, I do believe he would ultimately have a more hawkish foreign policy than Clinton.

        I do not view an increased potential to elevate hawks silly. Maybe you do.

        Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks. Jimmy Wales

        by 4Freedom on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:36:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  BINGO - I think you've got it.... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    4Freedom, Guy Incognito
  •  Zbig is a smart, practical guy (11+ / 0-)

    ... from all accounts I've heard here. People say he's level-headed and calm, which is something I say we could use more of in our foreign policy.

    Founder of the Committee to Save asdf

    by droogie6655321 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:11:47 AM PDT

  •  None Dare Call it Conspiracy (5+ / 0-)

    and other great books of the CFR conspiracy.

    Seriously, Zbig's one guy, Obama or any other candidate needs lots of different voices around them, the guy has experience, if he didn't have guys like Zbig people would be writing "empty suit" diaries about him.

    Have you delved into the people around the alternative to Obama?

    "We will now proceed to construct the socialist order."

    by 7November on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:12:50 AM PDT

  •  wait (15+ / 0-)

    since when is having Zbigniew Brzezinski as one of your policy advisors a bad thing?

    I want to win. You want to beat him, and that's a problem for me, because I want to win. -The West Wing

    by AnnArborBlue on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:12:54 AM PDT

    •  Also (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      benb

      The Economist isn't really "conservative" in the American sense of the word. They're much closer to the European definition of "liberal"; free markets and social/civil liberties. They endorsed Kerry because of Gitmo, think drugs should be legal and don't have the slightest problem with gay marriage.

      I want to win. You want to beat him, and that's a problem for me, because I want to win. -The West Wing

      by AnnArborBlue on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:20:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Zbig's kind of a hawk, IMO (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Sharon Jumper

      And I wish Obama didn't have him on his campaign.  I don't think Zbig gave Obama any extra "street cred" with his foreign policy, and it simply opens his campaign up for criticism on hawkish foreign policy stances Zbig has taken (sorry, no links, running low on time).

      But, all in all, Obama still has a much better set of foreign policy advisors than Clinton, because most of them oppose the Doctrine of American Exceptionalism.  Clinton's foreign policy staff is pretty much the opposite- do whatever the eff we want when and where we effing want to, and Iraq was a great idea that was simply mismanaged by Bush.  Ugh.

      Civic spirit drowns in a hurricane of mere survivalism - McKenzie Wark

      by cfaller96 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:39:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The Doctrine of American Exceptionalism is (0+ / 0-)

        rife in both the Clinton and Obama camps, and it is a disease I hope and pray they overcome.

        It is damning to our future.

        Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks. Jimmy Wales

        by 4Freedom on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 01:13:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Just because he has them as advisors (6+ / 0-)

    doesn't mean that he agrees with them.

    It was looking at his stable of advisers that I figured out he was for real about the idea of bringing people with different points of view together.  

    ---
    Fight the stupid! Boycott BREAKING diaries!

    by VelvetElvis on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:13:55 AM PDT

  •  How about Samantha Powers and Richard Clarke? (9+ / 0-)

    I think they're pretty good advisers to have on Obama's team.

    •  I'm not impressed with Power ... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      4Freedom

      It's clear that her heart in the right place. But her policy presciptions only increase the "USA as global policeman" justification for US militarism. And she also has little use for either legalism or multilateralism. There was a great review of her famous book on genocide in the London Review of Books when it came out. I recommend reading the whole article, but here are some choice excerpts:

      But the most eye-catching feature of ‘A Problem from Hell’ is Power’s palpable frustration with multilateralism and legalism. An important clue to this aspect of her thinking is the approval with which she cites Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle, two unilateralist hawks associated with the current Bush Administration. During the 1990s, they both urged US military intervention in Bosnia and Kosovo outside the framework of the UN and contrary to its Charter. Power thinks they were perfectly right. The Rwanda debacle was partly a result of UN dithering and incoherence. ... Formulated more pungently, acting decisively sometimes requires a great power to extricate itself from the hopeless mishmash of multilateralism.

         ....

      [T]he proponents of humanitarian intervention, in the 1990s, were among multilateralism’s least forgiving critics. Power writes in this spirit. Clinton embraced ‘consultation’, she tells us, whenever his Administration lacked a clear policy of its own. In that sense, too, multilateralism is a sign of weakness. When it comes to atrocities, she implies, the US should simply have told its allies what it was going to do....

      Deference to public opinion is equally inappropriate, Power continues, especially when the electorate is self-absorbed, parochial and fixated on body-bags. One wonders if her lack of sympathy with the widely reported public aversion to military casualties might have anything to do with the infrequent human contact between human rights activists and the families of the grunts who would be asked to die to uphold vaguely worded international laws....

      ....  Formulated differently, the 1990s advocates of humanitarian intervention have unintentionally bequeathed a risky legacy to George W. Bush. They have helped rescue from the ashes of Vietnam the ideal of America as a global policeman, undaunted by other countries’ borders, defending civilisation against the forces of ‘evil’.

      Link

  •  Heh (8+ / 0-)

    Your search - Brzezinski "Obama's Rove." - did not match any documents.

  •  Brzezinski (8+ / 0-)

    He sounds pretty rational from your description and the quoted bits.  It points to why I have more faith in Obama from a foreign policy perspective.  

    Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

    by johnny rotten on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:15:08 AM PDT

    •  Rational? His reference to "Moslems"? (0+ / 0-)

      Do some more looking into Brzezinski and his Rockefeller association.

      That is another diary.

      Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks. Jimmy Wales

      by 4Freedom on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:19:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  the Trilateral commission? (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Pegasus

        you really might want to pick another line of attack...

        I want to win. You want to beat him, and that's a problem for me, because I want to win. -The West Wing

        by AnnArborBlue on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:21:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  What, the "o" makes you irrational? (5+ / 0-)

        He was quite correct: Soviet Russia posed a legitimate existential threat to the U.S. (albeit a one which was greatly overrated).  Islamic fundamentalists do not.

        Their number is negligible and they are stupid. -- Eisenhower

        by Pegasus on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:25:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  American foreign policy has set the stage so (0+ / 0-)

          Islamic fundamentalism is becoming native to the fastest expanding faith on the globe.

          Jihadism will continue to increase if we don't alter our foreign policy, and I do not have the confidence in Obama to do this that I have in Clinton. It is only a slight edge, but I think it exists.

          If we do not significantly alter our foreign policy, we will continue to create our own threat within the Islamic community, and with Brzezinski in the equation, I think a peaceful outcome is less likely to happen.

          Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks. Jimmy Wales

          by 4Freedom on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 03:17:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Are you accusing Obama of (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    TracieLynn, farleftcoast, SteamPunkX

    being a corporatist?

    Say it ain't so! (everyone else says it ain't so, so you need to fall into lockstep)

  •  You're criticizing Brzezinski? (12+ / 0-)

    Oooookay...

    (goes back to reading email)

    Their number is negligible and they are stupid. -- Eisenhower

    by Pegasus on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:16:25 AM PDT

  •  Who referred to Zbiggy as Obama's Rove? (6+ / 0-)

    I've followed Zbigniew Brzezinski for decades now, and he is decidely not Rovian. He's one of the best foreign policy minds in the country today.

    I suggest you read Brzezinski's own piece in the Post on Iraq if you're really afraid of him - http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

    Or read this piece on ZB - "Zbigniew Brzezinski Calls Iraq War a Historic, Strategic and Moral Calamity & Says Stop the Trappings of Colonial Tutelage"

    Mr. Brzezinski, who was Jimmy Carter's National Security advisor is not one of the ones who would have taken us into war in Iraq - unlike Senator Obama's opponents.

    I don't know anything about Goolsbee, good or bad, but based on your evaluation of one of the great foreign policy minds I think I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    "When the President does it, it's not illegal" - Richard Nixon, 1974; US Congress, 2008

    by nightsweat on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:17:32 AM PDT

    •  It is interesting, that CentCom (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      nightsweat

      has its origins in the Carter Doctrine.

    •  Brzezinski's foreign policy is so anti-Russian (0+ / 0-)

      and so hawkish on Russia that Yuri Baluyevsky, head of the Russian military, was moved to say on January 16th that Russia could act pre-emptively with a nuclear strike if it felt threatened.

      Brzezinski has been part of negotiations placing missles in Poland and radar in the Czech Republic, moves Russia viewed as threatening to its sovereignty.

      Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks. Jimmy Wales

      by 4Freedom on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:24:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Gee, I wonder how somebody from Poland (3+ / 0-)

        could be so anti-Russian?  I just can't think of any good reasons.

        •  And, gee, given the political climate today, (0+ / 0-)

          putting an anti-Russian into a foreign policy role is so, so "quaint".

          Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks. Jimmy Wales

          by 4Freedom on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 12:41:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Have you been watching Russia? (0+ / 0-)

            Get ready - they're going to play us, Europe, and China off against each other for energy and other resources.

            "When the President does it, it's not illegal" - Richard Nixon, 1974; US Congress, 2008

            by nightsweat on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 12:52:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  It is going to be a multi-party struggle, this (0+ / 0-)

              competition for vanishing global resources. We need to maintain good relations with all countries involved for our own wellbeing.

              That is one of the reasons I want an experienced negotiator to handle America's foreign affairs, not an advisor-dependent novice.

              Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks. Jimmy Wales

              by 4Freedom on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 01:35:38 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  So you're voting for Richardson? (0+ / 0-)

                Cause Hillary sure as hell doesn't match your description.

                "When the President does it, it's not illegal" - Richard Nixon, 1974; US Congress, 2008

                by nightsweat on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 01:41:01 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  At least Hillary has been around the block (0+ / 0-)

                  a time or two. She's no Richardson, but she knows and is known by many of the parties she will need to negotiate with.

                  Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks. Jimmy Wales

                  by 4Freedom on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 01:53:13 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

      •  Given Putin's recent actions (0+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Sharon Jumper

        I think it's prudent to treat the Russians with caution.  We (through the World Bank and IMF) screwed the Russians hard after the fall of the Soviet Union, as Naomi Klein outlines in her most recent book.  I'd be pissed at us, if I were them.

        "When the President does it, it's not illegal" - Richard Nixon, 1974; US Congress, 2008

        by nightsweat on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:27:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You're just making shit up now. (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        nightsweat

        Brzezinski is mentioned nowhere in that article.

        Their number is negligible and they are stupid. -- Eisenhower

        by Pegasus on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:28:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  The only part of the diary that makes sense (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        nightsweat

        I'd agree that Brzezinski is more automatically anti-Russian than I'd like.  I certainly wouldn't pick him as Ambassador to Moscow.  The Soviets certainly were a threat but Zbig is too inclined to blame Soviet agressiveness and repression on inherent Russian characteristics.  There's a bit of a point there, but it can be pushed to far.

        Other than that, sheesh, give me a break.  Trilateral Commission?  Skull & Bones?  Can't trust a neoclassical economist (which includes almost everyone but Marxists)?  Got your tin foil handy?

        •  Trilateral Commission = Rockefeller (0+ / 0-)

          Skull & Bones = Bush I & II, Kerry, and 5 members of the Bush '04 Cabinet.

          If you believe in the hypothesis of the "rational human", then you can support the neoclassicists. If, however, you are an empiricist, the assumption of rationality governing most human decision-making is seen as the ridiculous premise it is. "Rational humans" can predicate known behaviors and grand theories can be built around such imputed conduct, while the irrational humans we usually encounter are vastly less predictible.

          Alas, most prefer to stick to such "givens" and let others do their thinking.

          Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks. Jimmy Wales

          by 4Freedom on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 12:59:17 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  soviet collapse more important (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    nightsweat

    though once we engage in our 3rd world ploys, we can't just leave.

    "Cynicism is a sorry kind of wisdom" - Barack Obama

    by pacified on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:18:34 AM PDT

  •  "Troubling" is a troubling word. (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    SeanF, nightsweat

    It usually means, "I can't beat Obama, but I can beat his horse."

    "It does not require many words to speak the truth." -- Chief Joseph, native American leader (1840-1904)

    by highfive on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:18:58 AM PDT

  •  Brzezinski is great as far as I am concerned. (5+ / 0-)

    I still don't support BO, as many know.

    •  Extend that concern into some research (0+ / 0-)

      about Brzezinski and see if you continue your conclusion of "great".

      He's a hawk and hates Russia, not a great combo in a senior advisor, methinks.

      Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks. Jimmy Wales

      by 4Freedom on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 12:43:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Lawrence Lessig (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    dburbach, nightsweat, pontechango

    Now THAT is an advisor Obama can be proud of.

    I trust Obama's judgment more than I trust my own. Why are YOU telling him what to do?

    by Leggy Starlitz on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:23:27 AM PDT

  •  Now, General Jack keane (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    pontechango, Sharon Jumper

    and O'hanlon are the kind of American Enterprise Institute guys that Clinton has surrounded herself with and that makes me feel so much better.

    Can Podhertz be far behind?

  •  "Yale Bonesman Goolsbee" (0+ / 0-)

    Uh, oh...more tinfoil goodness...

    And I'm not even an Obama supporter, unless he gets the nomination.

    Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað

    by milkbone on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:46:20 AM PDT

    •  Have you studied the history of the Bonesmen? (0+ / 0-)

      The Russell family, which helped found the Society, was linked to involvement in the opium trade in the 19th century.

      Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks. Jimmy Wales

      by 4Freedom on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 01:06:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  ZOMG! (0+ / 0-)

        Proof that Goolsbee must be in the pay of the Illuminati!

        Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað

        by milkbone on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 01:14:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Do you think so? Spoof as you will, (0+ / 0-)

          Bush had eleven Bonesmen in his first cabinet, and look at the damage they managed to wreak.

          What's with the Illuminati? Illuminate away!

          Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks. Jimmy Wales

          by 4Freedom on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 01:32:56 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Obama has woman from harvard...name? (0+ / 0-)

    She's an expert on genocide......

    Best Diary of the Year? http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/23/03912/3990

    by LNK on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:47:03 AM PDT

  •  Brzezinski opposed Iraq (4+ / 0-)

    and has spoken out against the war energetically and publicly, which your diary doesn't state. I think that really places the image you cast of him as a "rabid" warmonger in a much different light.

    A geopolitical thinker who considers responses to crises on a case-by-case basis rather than adopting postures ready-made by all-encompassing ideology is something we need more of, not less.

    •  Kissinger supports Mc