Daily Kos

Will Pres. HRC be good for women?

Wed Feb 06, 2008 at 11:51:01 AM PDT

I haven't seen this diaried yet, but I thought it was important. Laura Flanders has a blog piece up at The Nation called Which Womanhood? written in response to Robin Morgan's Goodbye To All That (#2) which takes its title from Morgan's very important 1970 essay, Goodbye To All That, a feminist declaration of independence from the male chauvinist New Left.

Morgan's piece is a feminist polemic in favor of voting for Hillary Clinton. Much of it echoes the style of her original essay with a litany of the truly outrageous sexist treatment that has been directed at Clinton. Morgan then concludes with a segue to a call to action and her own endorsement of Clinton:

Time is short and the contest tightening. We need to rise in furious energy—as we did when Anita Hill was so vilely treated in the U.S. Senate, as we did when Rosie Jiminez was butchered by an illegal abortion, as we did and do for women globally who are condemned for trying to break through. We need to win, this time. Goodbye to supporting HRC tepidly, with ambivalent caveats and apologetic smiles. Time to volunteer, make phone calls, send emails, donate money, argue, rally, march, shout, vote.

Me? I support Hillary Rodham because she’s the best qualified of all candidates running in both parties. I support her because her progressive politics are as strong as her proven ability to withstand what will be a massive right-wing assault in the general election. I support her because she knows how to get us out of Iraq. I support her because she’s refreshingly thoughtful, and I’m bloodied from eight years of a jolly "uniter" with ejaculatory politics. I needn’t agree with her on every point. I agree with the 97 percent of her positions that are identical with Obama’s—and the few where hers are both more practical and to the left of his (like health care). I support her because she’s already smashed the first-lady stereotype and made history as a fine senator, because I believe she will continue to make history not only as the first US woman president, but as a great US president.

As for the "woman thing"?

Me, I’m voting for Hillary not because she’s a woman—but because I am.

It is a passionate piece and, independent of whether one agrees with her support for HRC, a valuable reminder of exactly how foul many of the attacks on her have been.

Flander's response, however, is an equally valuable reminder of the seamier side of Clinton's record and what it has meant for the lives of women. A few quotes should convey the point:

Morgan recalls how Clinton defied the US State Department and the Chinese Government to speak at the 1995 UN World Conference on Women. I saw Hillary Clinton speak that rainy day in China and her defiance was something of which to be rightly proud. But even as Clinton called for the recognition of women's rights as human rights, the rigged-for-profit trade policies that she supported then and continues to endorse were encouraging a global sweatshop economy that has all but eradicated the right to unionize in most of the world -- a working woman's best protector. (It took her six years to get off the board of the anti-union giant Wal-Mart.)

Clinton writes in her autobiography "Living History" that she would have opposed her husband over welfare reform if she thought it would hurt young children. (One wonders what she thinks happens to kids in poor working and over-working families.) On the campaign trail, she recalls her dedication to Marian Wright Edelman's Children's Defense Fund. But I can't forget Peter Edelman's resignation from the Department of Health and Human Services in protest. In 1996, welfare "reform" cut almost 800,000 legal immigrants off aid entirely and even denied them food stamps, but no one denies that it helped get Bill Clinton re-elected. "Welfare reform became a success for Bill" writes Hillary in "Living History." It was all about politics, not poor people, said Edelman.

I'd like to believe a female president would be good for the advancement of "womanhood" worldwide. But so far Senator Clinton's votes have not been good for Iraqi, or Palestinian, or a whole lot of global womanhood. One million dead in Iraq alone. (US forces killed another nine civilians including a child today.) At what cost does one woman prove she's ready for the White House?

Flander's then concludes by indicating her intention to vote for Obama "with fingers crossed."

This is one of the more substantive exchanges I've seen on the question of what a Clinton presidency would mean for women and I think both pieces deserve more attention than I've seen so far.

Tags: Hillary Clinton, Women, Barack Obama, Sexism (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 73 comments

  •  Nice Push Diary (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    mrogers2007

    I remember you well at the Chelsea motel you were famous, your heart was a legend

    by gregoryjames on Wed Feb 06, 2008 at 11:52:26 AM PDT

  •  At what cost? (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    mijita, mrogers2007, Tybalt

    At what cost does a woman prove she's ready? Apparently to some feminists at the cost of relinquishing the role to a man altogether.

  •  Maybe she will (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    mijita, bucadibeppo

    ...maybe she won't. Was Magaret Thatcher good for women...or Nancy Pelosi the first woman speaker?

    •  Thatcher (4+ / 0-)

      It's kinda complicated, actually.  Thatcher was certainly a disaster, a huge net negative, for the lives of working women in the UK.

      On the other hand, for women in politics, she was a godsend, because she was the final nail in the coffin of those who pretended that women were too weak to rule.

      Without a struggle, there can be no progress. -Douglass

      by Tybalt on Wed Feb 06, 2008 at 11:58:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  and that discription fits Hillary to a T (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        born socialist, Independant Man
        I am not a professional politian.  I am an uninsured low wage worker.   I could really benefit from a stong union and paid leave and daycare. I don't think I will get these things from a corporatists.
        •  She's received excellent scores from labor (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          votermom, DMiller

          Her labor ratings have been consistently very good.  She is a great friend to labor.  See here

          Without a struggle, there can be no progress. -Douglass

          by Tybalt on Wed Feb 06, 2008 at 12:27:03 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Lieberman got good scores from naral (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            born socialist
            after he shutdown debate on prolife judges being appointed to the Supreme Court.  The Labor leaders are timid in my view and only care about feathering their own nests.  The unions are dying however and I don't see the trend reversing under Hillary.  They didn't reverse under Bill.  He did little for them.  She is not going to reverse taft hartley or make it possible for anyone in my job description to join a union more easily.  We won't be unionized when she leaves office. We likely won't be insured have more access to daycare of paid leave.
  •  Tips/Flames (9+ / 0-)

    The Morgan piece came up in a thread of another diary but generated very little discussion. I'd really be interested in what folks think of both pieces. While I generally agree with Flander's criticisms, Morgan's piece made me think hard about ways in which I had bought into sexist memes about Clinton. Its an important challenge.

    Sick of candidate diaries? Kasama!
    "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories" -- Amilcar Cabral

    by Christopher Day on Wed Feb 06, 2008 at 11:55:28 AM PDT

  •  Hey (0+ / 0-)

    Gimme a chance to put up a tip jar willya?

    Sick of candidate diaries? Kasama!
    "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories" -- Amilcar Cabral

    by Christopher Day on Wed Feb 06, 2008 at 11:56:50 AM PDT

  •  The unionization point is weak: Unionization, (0+ / 0-)

    even in the U.S., has typically not helped women all that much .  The textile mills of the south, the sweatshops of New York, the housecleaners and maids have not unionized.  It was the male-dominated trade like jobs that unionized and protected their workers.  

    Moreover, Hillary was NOT for NAFTA and argued against Bill on it.   This point is made in Carl Bernstein's book (and he isn't exactly a drooling Hillary fan).  

    Finally, we should not assume that Hillary will be a perfect clone of Bill.   Based on her record so far, she will focus more on women and children than Bill did.  

  •  Both candidates (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    votermom

    are fairly solid on women's issues, as is Edwards. If HRC makes the Poster of US Presidents we display in classrooms, after after row upon row of (white) men, I will feel tremendous pride. Will I vote for her because we are both xx? No. If I were AA, would I vote for BO because he is? I'd like to believe I would not. IF all else were equal - then perhaps...

  •  Hillary = bad for women (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    andydoubtless, bucadibeppo
    1. WAR: We seldom talk about the strain that extended military deployments put on working women in military families - or especially women soldiers.  That's a toll many middle class white feminists overlook.  Not to mention the suffering of women abroad.  War hurts everyone, but public health studies show it hurts women the most.
    1. REGRESSIVE INSURANCE TAX (aka healthcare mandate): Women far more likely to be working poor or just barely making it than men.  Instituting a tax that impacts working people harder than the middle class and wealthy is bad for women.
    1. LOW WAGE, SERVICE-SECTOR LABOR ORGANIZING: Women are disproportionately represented in low-wage service sector jobs.  These workers face the stiffest obstacles to unionizing.  Hill is a former WalMart board member; many of the labor unions for low-wage service-sector workers (SEIU, UNITE-HERE) have stayed away from endorsing her.  Union membership continued to decline under the first Clinton administration.  I don't think we can trust her to aggressively enforce low-wage workers' right to organize.

    I know who Obama's veep will be. You can too!

    by slaney black on Wed Feb 06, 2008 at 12:07:51 PM PDT

  •  I was just reading Morgan's (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    DMiller, Caoilainn

    essay earlier. I can't argue with it really. Comparing resumes, she is more qualified. If they are the similar enough on issues to please the voter, and the decision rests on qualifications, she is the clear choice.

    If it's something fuzzier like electability, speaking ability, etc, then it's a subjective decision.

    I think she'd make a good president -- not a Margaret Thatcher at all. I don't know if she'll be a popular president.

    I think she'll be a strong executive, and I don't know if that will be a good thing or a bad thing.

    I think definitely good for women, yes -- I can finally tell my daughters that they could be president one day.

    -8.5, -5.9 I want my UHC!

    by votermom on Wed Feb 06, 2008 at 12:15:33 PM PDT

  •  My two cents. (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    votermom

    The two pieces do bring up very interesting points. Thanks for posting this.

    I am a woman and reading the Morgan piece made me cry. I have had my head in the sand a bit regarding how HRC had been and is treated because I never wanted her to run and I certainly wasn't going to vote for her in the primary and those reasons were because of her policies and because I preferred other candidates. I was ignoring the sexism because it didn't effect me. But it does.

    As my first 3 preferred candidates are no longer in the race, it is down to HRC and BO and for me choosing between choice 4 and 5 is not very much fun. It is for the same old reasons I am sure everyone has seen over and over I have pretty much the same level of esteem for each of them. I would vote for either of them. I am even starting to get excited about voting for either of them.

    But now I am definitely leaning Clinton. And it is not because she is a woman, but it is. Her circumstances are so unusual in this race. I am tired of people talking about "Billary," I am tired of things like this quote from the Flanders piece (and I like her a lot on the radio):

    Clinton writes in her autobiography "Living History" that she would have opposed her husband over welfare reform if she thought it would hurt young children. (One wonders what she thinks happens to kids in poor working and over-working families.) On the campaign trail, she recalls her dedication to Marian Wright Edelman's Children's Defense Fund. But I can't forget Peter Edelman's resignation from the Department of Health and Human Services in protest. In 1996, welfare "reform" cut almost 800,000 legal immigrants off aid entirely and even denied them food stamps, but no one denies that it helped get Bill Clinton re-elected. "Welfare reform became a success for Bill" writes Hillary in "Living History." It was all about politics, not poor people, said Edelman.

    That is a valid critcism of Bill Clinton, his decision was a political one imo. But from that paragraph I really don't know what HRCs position actually might be now or was then, it is not clear to me. That she says "Welfare reform became a success for Bill" is a political fact. People liked it. I am not seeing her endorsing the same position, just recounting history. But I don't have the book in front of me, I am just reading Flanders' interpretation.

    And this is where it gets sticky, because she was married to him. She had influence in the White House, that is experience. But how much influence did she really have? Bill Clinton was the President. And if elected it will be Hillary who is President. There is no flipping "Billiary."

    So, now I am angry. I am angry as hell. And yes, I am a woman and I am a feminist and I am pretty damn sure that I am going to vote for her in the primary.

    •  Bill's back in the doghouse now (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Fineena

      but for a couple weeks there it sure looked like co-presidents again. I don't think Bill Clinton was a bad president, just not as good as we hoped for when we voted him in.

      And Bill is part of what makes Hillary not such a  great choice for a feminist. After Monica, I think she should have divorced him,and I think her political aspirations may have been the biggest reason she did not. That tells me winning is more improtant to her than self-respect,and some of her recent campaign tactics have reinforced that.

      -7.75, -6.05 The point of the war in Iraq is that there IS a war in Iraq- Keith Olbermann

      by nicolemm on Wed Feb 06, 2008 at 12:25:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I disagree completely (0+ / 0-)

        that Hillary had an obligation to divorce Bill and really I am not even going to speculate about whether political aspirations were part of it or not.

        I will say this:  Bill IS a problem.  It is a problem that he will in many ways be back in for a third term that violates the spirit of the Constitution.  And it is a problem that Hillary relies on her 8 years as First Lady as part of her "experience" theme but we cannot really ever evaluate that experience except for the health care task force, which she did not conduct wisely.

        Caoilainn's comment above reflects this confusion, and I for one am not comfortable with it.

        And this is where it gets sticky, because she was married to him. She had influence in the White House, that is experience. But how much influence did she really have?

        To be honest with you, I think Hillary could clear some of this ambiguity up but does not intentionally because it serves her interests to keep it muddy.  I do not count any purported "experience" she had in that 8 years unless I have something that objectively and empirically verifies it (the speech in China, the health care reform, etc)  Otherwise, I just consider her as someone who I know knows very well the structure of the executive branch and won't need any help ramping up on that.  The advantage that gives her in an election is so small as to be not worth mentioning, IMHO.  You can find any number of advisors with the exact same knowledge-base to keep you on par from day one.  This is not particularly significant.  I cannot evaluate the things she otherwise claims to have done (Macedonia and Ireland, etc.) and therefore I refuse to consider them.  

      •  That's so black and white (0+ / 0-)

        - many couples do not divorce after infidelity, and sometimes it is the right decision.
        My guess is that one reason she didn't kick Bill's ass out the door after Monica is that she didn't want to give the VRWC that satisfaction.

        -8.5, -5.9 I want my UHC!

        by votermom on Wed Feb 06, 2008 at 12:39:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I suppose that's part of what bothers me (0+ / 0-)

        about her - Bill.  I know it's none of my business & part of me is uncomfortable that I'm somewhat "judging" her on something personal to her but if she was one of my girl friends, I'd factor her behavior into our friendship.

        In other words, I just can't understand why she didn't divorce Bill.  Monica wasn't the first or even the second time he cheated on her.  I get that couples often work things out & forgive & sometimes end up with an even stronger relationship. But it happened again with Monica, right under her nose & he lied to her & the world.  That would have been the last straw.

        Of course, easy for me to say as it wasn't my marriage but if it were a friend in that situation, I would kind of lose respect for her.  That's just me & my gut feeling & I have to ask myself, why stay.  And the answer would be either the person is a "doormat" & let's people walk over them - or staying with the person has some kind of long term payoff that's worth sacrificing your dignity & I don't like either.

        If she let's people walk all over her then that's not a good quality for a leader but she certainly doesn't come off that way.  She appears to be a very strong woman.

        If that's not the case, then I wonder if she is so ambitious that she would sacrifice her self respect & public humiliation to get elected because she needed Bill for that to happen.  That kind of ambition frightens me.

        My point - I may be wrong but this is part of what bothers me about Hillary.  Maybe it's silly but it's how I feel.  As a woman, I don't see her as a role model for young women or a cause for feminists.  She's the opposite.

  •  I fully recognize that Hillary (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    andydoubtless, bucadibeppo, Fineena

    has been the victim of sexist stereotypes and has a very difficult tightrope to walk.  Her opponent suffers from similar burdens due to the color of his skin.  I'm not particularly interested in arguments that suggest I and others can't make well-informed and valid decisions about their merits notwithstanding these factors which tend to stand in the way of clear judgment.

    Particularly galling to me was Clinton's cynical dishonesty about Obama's commitment to choice in order to deceive women voters on an issue of profound importance to us.  This is something that is very hard for me personally to accept, and any time someone suggests that female loyalty ought to be a factor in my vote, I cannot help but be reminded of this and of the level of disloyalty to a feminist agenda revealed in her willingness to exploit with outright lies our insecurities about the future of our right to choose.

    A female president would be great, but I'd rather have another male president than have a female president who I believe lacks integrity and who has consistently displayed a kind of cynicism and political opportunism that I just cannot accept. From supporting Bill's Welfare Reform, to NAFTA, the AUMF, the Bankruptcy Bill, and the divisive strategies that her campaign team has pursued, I am simply not interested in supporting this brand of politics.  I don't expect perfection, but in the case of Hillary Clinton, I see little evidence of a person willing to go to bat for principle.  Arguments that I am therefore participating in my own oppression or just don't realize how enslaved I am are not particularly persuasive.  Then again, I eschewed academia for good reasons having to do with my own level of tolerance for abstraction over plain old garden variety common sense, and I have never regretted it.

    Even if I didn't have numerous ideological and principled objections to the idea of Clinton as president, I'd also support Obama for the simple reason that he is much better positioned to strengthen the Democratic Party and has built a grassroots campaign that demonstrates with real numbers and results his ability to build a working progressive coalition.

    Don't really know where I'm going with this.  

    There was a HuffPo piece on a similar theme today, although I didn't think it was that impressive.

  •  I am appalled by some of the people here... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Nightprowlkitty

    ...who will say anything at all if they think it benefits their candidate, whether there is any truth in it matters not in the least.

    Hillary Clinton is a racist and a misogynist?  Who knew?

  •  politically? (0+ / 0-)

    No. Nor will she harm women's future chances at political office.

    I believe she's seen as sufficiently atypical that nobody will hold whatever she does to support her homeboys, i.e. "the real people represented by K Street" (Fortune 1000 CEOs) against other women running for office.

    She'll probably do a good job on her marquee issues, i.e. reproductive rights, etc. while doing things for the economy that will screw everyone not part of the Bush 0.1% that'll affect the rest of us badly regardless of sex or gender preferences.

    Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

    by alizard on Wed Feb 06, 2008 at 02:52:34 PM PDT

Permalink | 73 comments