Daily Kos

In Obama Clinton Tie, Dean Won't Allow a Fair Floor Fight

Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 01:09:55 PM PDT

Former populist candidate Howard Dean is going to make sure no other populist candidate challenges the Democratic party machine. Stating a floor fight at the convention would be bad for the party, Dean says if Obama and Clinton are tied going into March, he's force them to make a deal in some smoke-free back room. I can't imagine he would have said this if he was neck and neck with a machine politician like HRC in his own bid for the Presidency.

http://rawstory.com/...

As reported in Raw Story, Dean sez

"The idea that we can afford to have a big fight at the convention and then win the race in the next eight weeks, I think, is not a good scenario," Dean said according to excerpts of an interview with NY1 television.

"I think we will have a nominee sometime in the middle of March or April. But if we don't, then we're going to have to get the candidates together and make some kind of an arrangement," said Dean, who failed in his bid for the party's nomination in 2004.

Like millions of other democrats I donated money to my candidate, worked for him/her and voted for him/her. Dean would make a mockery of all that and render all our time, work, money and votes meaningless. That will not fly with me and I suspect will not fly with a great many other voters who are busily having their faith in our system restored after eight years of Bush.

I support Obama. My choice. And I normally would support any Democrat. But f the candidates are tied in a few months and The Democratic Party in their wisdom shortcuts the floor fight and chooses HRC, I would experience major flashbacks of Bush v Gore and the Supreme Court deciding the 2000 election for us in favor of Bush.

And I won't vote for her. I know it's suicidal. I know McCain is a nightmare according to many. But if my vote is taken from me by the party then fuck it. My ability to have a voice is at the core of our democratic system and if my voice nd the voices of many others are silenced by Howard Dean and the Party then I'll consider President Clinton 2 as illegitimate as Bush.

This is the same Howard Dean by the way, who's been making rumblings about reinstating Florida and Michigan delegates, changing the rules midstream - which favors Hillary. Populist hero Howard's turned faster than horse meat in the sun and his pro HRC moves smell about as good.

Would I say the same thing if Howard and his machine buddies decided it in favor of Obama? For me that's like asking, would I have objected if the Supremes had picked Gore over Bush. No. But as was the case with Bush v Gore, if the democratic process is stopped by the machine, you can bank on it being to favor the machine candidate in danger of losing, in this case HRC.

Tags: Hillary, Obama, Dean (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 190 comments

  •  Another Obamacrat for McCain (17+ / 0-)

    Would I say the same thing if Howard and his machine buddies decided it in favor of Obama? For me that's like asking, would I have objected if the Supremes had picked Gore over Bush. No.

    That says it all.  It's not about principle for you; it's just about Obama.

  •  Tell you what... (16+ / 0-)

    ...if Dean reinstates Michigan and Florida delegates after Obama and Edwards didn't even campaign in those states, he deserves to be driven out of the party on a rail.

    T.

  •  1968 (8+ / 0-)

    Former populist candidate Howard Dean is going to make sure no other populist candidate challenges the Democratic party machine.

    I don't think it has anything to do with populism vs. party machinery.  It's pretty simple, really: Dean remembers 1968.

    •  There'll be another 1968 (7+ / 0-)

      If Dean puts down the youth vote by handing the nomination to Hillary. I'm not objective, but I KNOW how my peers would respond, and it wouldn't be pretty.

      •  agreed (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Kitty, lgmcp, Practical Progressive

        And I have enough faith in him to know that he's well aware of this fact, and will do anything in his power to avoid it.

      •  The real factor that cost votes in 1968 (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        moon in the house of moe

        was not the floor fight or Humphrey's nomination, but the demonstrations and police riots that occurred outside the convention. These left an indelible impression on the center. Even with this we almost won and came closer than we did in most elections since.

        Besides after the murders of RFK and MLK there were not too many other viable candidates in 1968.

        "The fact which the politician faces is merely that there is less honor among thieves than was supposed, and not the fact that they are thieves." Thoreau

        by shigeru on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 01:27:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not so (4+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Osiris, Rogneid, Quicksilver2723, shigeru

          After the '68 convention, most McCarthy supporters sat out the election and allowed Nixon to win.

          In '72, the Democratic Convention was "taken over" by the McGovern supporters who pissed off the centrist and Southern Democratic voters. (If it hadn't been for Watergate, Carter would not have won in '76.)

          In '80, Kennedy challenged Carter, split the party, and since the two sides could not abide with each other, many Kennedy voters stayed home and Reagan was elected.

          And in 2000, some normally Democratic voters abandoned Gore for Nader and lead us to eight years of GWB.

          A history lesson we need to remember is that in '92, Clinton had the nomination wrapped up fairly early which allowed him to reconcile the various elements of the party well before the convention. This is what the GOP want McCain to do now.

          "I'm not a member of any organized political party, ... I'm a Democrat." Will Rodgers

          by CCSDem on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 01:40:52 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Thanks for that (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            eaglecries, justCal

            However, my memory of this, and it is purely anecdotal is that the McCarthy people did not sit out in 1968. No one I knew would have voted for Nixon or sat out the election. It is highly unlikely that McCarthy would have won anyway although I understand their frustrations.

            Regarding 1980 I honestly don't know of any Kennedy voters who voted for Reagan or stayed home.

            Your post, is a good reminder though of how these petty differences have cost us in the past. I see the fault lines already and believe that the ardent Clinton supporters and the ardent Obama supporters who would vote for a rethug or not vote if their candidate does not get elected are churlish, naive and mean spirited.

            It is good to remember that both Gore and Kerry had the nomination potted early on and even that did no good because of divisions and self-righteousness in our party. We lose not so much because of the nomination process but because we have so many people who cannot see beyond their noses or use these items as excuses for not voting.

            If the loser in this current sweepstakes does not enthusiastically and financially back the winner in this contest he/she should be blackballed from the party.

            "The fact which the politician faces is merely that there is less honor among thieves than was supposed, and not the fact that they are thieves." Thoreau

            by shigeru on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 01:57:13 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I know people who sat on their hands (0+ / 0-)

              in '68 and '80.

              It is the ideological "purists" who, as you say, can't see beyond the end of their noses, and often cost us elections.

              That's what drives me crazy about these candidate diaries.

              "I'm not a member of any organized political party, ... I'm a Democrat." Will Rodgers

              by CCSDem on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 05:09:51 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Dean's support was the youth vote (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Rogneid, Oothoon

        just as Obama's is today. Dean understands the importance of the youth vote. He will not want to alienate them. Obama's candidacy has the potential to make an entire generation of young people Democrats for life. Much in the way Grampa Reagan created a new, young Republican wave of voters almost a generation ago.

        I don't support the diarist. I'll vote for Hillary if she's the nominee. But I don't think he has anything to worry about, either. I suspect this is a shot over the bow of the Clinton campaign from Dean, letting them know that if the Omentum rolls the way Obama's folks hope over the next month, that he'll be looking to end it early and get on with the business of beating McCain.

  •  Obama/Clinton 08 (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    DC Pol Sci, acerimusdux, Vegas Jay

    Obama will win a plurality of delegates. but he needs to acknowledge the fact that 49% of the delegates have gone to Clinton.

    So a good compromise, and a strong ticket for november would include Hillary as VP

    this would maintain Dem party unity and defeat the
    Repubs. in November

    I remember you well at the Chelsea motel you were famous, your heart was a legend

    by gregoryjames on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 01:13:55 PM PDT

  •  this would be the worst thing that could happen. (4+ / 0-)

    and I think you're right about the 00 analogy and the Supreme Court's decision.  Also, the apathy in this country is largely related to the idea that our votes don't count.  I hear that from most of my non-voting friends.  This would only re-inforce that idea and weaken our democracy.

  •  I guess know you don't really (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    jentwisl

    mean "him/her" when you talk about "your" candidate", do we?  You really mean "him"

    You should at least be honest in where your loyalties lie and what motivates you to write this diary.

    •  him/her refers to 'millions of Democrats' (0+ / 0-)

      I state my preference clearly below that.

      Who controls the past, controls the future. Who controls the present, controls the past. George Orwell

      by moon in the house of moe on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 01:16:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah. I know you do. (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Osiris, lgmcp

        But there's a great deal of "masking" going on in here, particularly when Obama partisans perceive something as a threat to Obama's candidacy; the huge bulk of Democrats around the country have made it clear in poll after poll that they'd be happy with either Obama or Clinton.  They may well not perceive a "deal" brokered by Dean as a negative or a problem in the same way that hardened Obama/Clinton partisans in dKos would.

        •  For the most part, that isn't true (0+ / 0-)

          Particularly, in this discussion thread, I think the comments have been intellectually honest for the most part.  Don't make it into an Obama-Clinton face off.

        •  with all due respect (0+ / 0-)

          to millions of voters around the country, it no longer matters what they think.
          The power to choose the nominee belongs to the convention, wherefore it
          only matters what the delegates think.

          Democrats around the country have made it clear in poll after poll that they'd be happy with either Obama or Clinton.  They may well not perceive a "deal" brokered by Dean as a negative or a problem

          This is entirely true, and it equally entirely misses the point.

          in the same way that hardened Obama/Clinton partisans in dKos would.

          The Point is that any decision to have any kind of deal will have
          to be ratified by the delegates, and every pledged delegate
          is absolutely guaranteed to be a hard-core partisan of the candidate
          to whom he or she is pledged.  The people who actually get
          to make this decision really are "hardened Obama/Clinton partisans"
          AND NOT average voters.

          The only way a deal actually works is (since Sens. Obama and Clinton are both
          superdelegates pledged to themselves) is if one of them says,
          "Despite the fact that there are enough of us to force this to a second ballot,
          we should, in the interests of our party winning the general election,
          refuse to do that."
          This will actually work.

          If anyone is fool enough to tell his own supporters
          "I know how hard we worked to get you here to vote
          for me, but now I'm telling you, don't do that,"
          then he will certainly lose (and deserve to lose)
          the support he has just asked to lose.

          But anybody who thinks that Howard Dean individually and/or all 500 members
          of the DNC in toto have the power to convince
          either of Clinton or Obama to say that is smoking something that we all need to be smoking.

          In any case, I bet it can't possibly be Obama doing this.
          Unless he says, "Many of you signed on to this
          movement as moderates or independents who knew that
          we could pursue unity by reaching across the aisle.
          Well, tonight, we need to prove we can reach out
          across divisions within our party."

          The taste that would leave in his supporters' mouths
          would almost negate his appeal, if you ask me, but I'm not
          an authority on that because I'm not an Obama supporter.

          "You can't nice these people to death."-- John Edwards

          by ge0rge on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 02:08:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  motives for writing this diary (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      moon in the house of moe

      Come on.  The diarist quoted Howard Dean.
      The issue is Howard Dean's motives for saying he
      (and the candidates, if they make his "arrangement")
      will refuse to let the delegates do what they are
      being elected to do.

      "You can't nice these people to death."-- John Edwards

      by ge0rge on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 01:49:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The only compromise... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    jorndorff, ryan t

    ...I could possibly envision that might be acceptable would be for the two of them to flip a coin.  The one who won would be President for the first two years; the other would be Vice President for the first two years.  Then, the first would resign, making the second President.  The second would then nominate the first as Vice President.

    "Clinton/Obama because he's younger and his time will come; he can run on his own in eight years" is NOT acceptable.

    "There is nothing false about hope." -- Barack Obama

    by DC Pol Sci on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 01:14:42 PM PDT

    •  Not acceptable to you .. (4+ / 0-)

      but quite acceptable to the approximately half the Democratic electorate who are putting Clinton as their first choice so far.

      "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

      by lgmcp on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 01:21:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Agree. Obama as VP would be totally logical... (4+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        lgmcp, CCSDem, sunshineonthebay, ge0rge

        ...if we try to be in a logical vs. emotional setting.

        Seriously, what a blow to the GOP to have to run against BOTH of our candidates? Can we not imagine the change tsunami and influence on little kids all over America to finally really see proof that anyone can indeed grow up to be POTUS? TV movie, two big tent size hankies.

        •  Not only that but (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          lgmcp

          it sets the stage for Democrats to retain power for sixteen years, at least. We need to think strategically. We need someone fairly young as the VP who can run at the head of the ticket in '16. HRC would be too old for that.

          "I'm not a member of any organized political party, ... I'm a Democrat." Will Rodgers

          by CCSDem on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 01:50:00 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  True (3+ / 0-)

        However, what we Obama supporters see is a candidate combined with a moment in time that cannot be duplicated in 8 years or however long  you want him to wait.

        If he loses in a fair fight, then, I will vote for Clinton without losing any sleep.  But if the fight is fixed, that is another story.

        Americans want a fair fight.  We want rules and we want those rules to provide equal opportunity to all the contenders.  And the thought that a handful of king makers can make some deals in a dark alley will be a bad beginning to this next president.

        •  Except that following the party and convention (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Magenta, Osiris

          rules, as currently codified, doesn't qualify as "fixing".  These are the rules we have, and the rules we'll use.  Yes the rules include a certain amount of influence-mongering, apparently on purpose, and that feels more than a little weird to the average person.

          But the nominating convention is simply not based, at this time, on a pure popular vote.

          Calling it wrong and shady is a critique of the rules, not of the people involved.  

          "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

          by lgmcp on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 01:42:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  its going to come down to the superdelegates (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            moon in the house of moe, lgmcp

            And we'll see how that goes.

            But it is a very important point that these are the 'rules' just as the Florida/Michigan loss of delegates are the 'rules' as well.

            Let the superdelegates decide how they are going to vote and if thats the winning margin so be it.

        •  It does not matter what "Americans" want (0+ / 0-)

          What matters is what
          delegates to the Democratic National Convention
          want.
          Upcoming delegate elections are important and we had all better
          make sure we're voting for delegates we can trust.

          Americans want a fair fight.  We want rules and we want those rules to provide equal opportunity to all the contenders.  And the thought that a handful of king makers can make some deals in a dark alley will be a bad beginning to this next president

          There is no possible way that this can happen unless the delegates
          choose to go along with it.  There are a lot more than
          a "handful" of them (like 4000, plus another thousand alternates).
          If there is to be a deal, then the way it was supposed to work in theory
          was that the superdelegates, most of whom will be unpledged,
          agree to unify as a bloc to break the tie.  That is why it was
          actually important for Edwards to have stayed in.
          The Edwards delegates could've unified in the opposite direction
          to make sure that there was some actual negotiation
          and deliberation.

          It is possible that Clinton might pull a Romney
          and drop out in April if she loses Texas, Ohio,
          and Pennsylvania.  But does anybody really think
          that is going to happen??  I sure don't.

          "You can't nice these people to death."-- John Edwards

          by ge0rge on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 02:25:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Clinton/Obama may be more acceptable (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Osiris

      to the superdelegates who have to run with that ticket up-ballot. They are the ones who are going to decide this race, not the primary voters.

      "I'm not a member of any organized political party, ... I'm a Democrat." Will Rodgers

      by CCSDem on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 01:47:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  just because it's unacceptable to you personally (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Osiris

      doesn't make it any less objectively true.

      "Clinton/Obama because he's younger and his time will come; he can run on his own in eight years" is NOT acceptable.

      The only way this is unacceptable is if Sen. Clinton is unacceptable
      (as the nominee) in her own right.
      Which she may yet prove herself to be, especially
      if she tries to win with MI and FL while the math
      proves she would lose without them.

      I personally, if I were going to address this specfic issue, would say,
      "Clinton/Obama because that's the only
      way to get both of them on the ticket:
      he can't possibly pick her for VP -- that would both
      undercut his message and waste his opportunity to pick
      someone who could add more voters in the general".

      In the alternative, her winning the nomination and picking someone other
      than Obama for VP is in fact the only way we can
      lose the general election.

      "You can't nice these people to death."-- John Edwards

      by ge0rge on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 02:16:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I guess there's no point (5+ / 0-)

    in getting mad in advance...but I keep having flashbacks to when we in Connecticut nominated Ned Lamont over Joe Lieberman only to have our hard-won efforts thwarted.  It's very frustrating to develop all this enthusiasm only to have the big and the powerful say, "So what?"

    ...don't blame me, I voted for Ned!

    by theark on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 01:15:59 PM PDT

  •  Go put on your tinfoil hat and go wait in the (16+ / 0-)

    basement until its over.  

    Any party leader in Dean's position will seek to avoid a floor fight.   In the end, if they want a floor fight, there is nothing that can be done to prevent it.   Dean has done more to re-invent and re-invigorate people powered politics then anyone else and your slander can't diminish that.

    •  It's not tinfoil when the man says it (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      trevzb, ryan t

      And as far as Dean re-inventing and re-invigorating people powered politics, he will wreck his legacy with this kind of behavior faster than Bill Clinton is wrecking his.

      Who controls the past, controls the future. Who controls the present, controls the past. George Orwell

      by moon in the house of moe on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 01:18:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Howl at the moon and hope for the best (4+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Osiris, lgmcp, CCSDem, kayfromsouth

        You are why Obama is dangerous.  You live in a fantasy land of expectations.   Swiftboating works because fools like you buy any excuse to dump on leaders.  

        Obama will let you down and you will betray him and then we will all lose.  So, don't expect me to give you a gold star while you are doing that same process to someone else.

      •  It IS tinfoil when... (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        FleetAdmiralJ, sunshineonthebay

        You think that Howard would support Hillary over Obama.

        •  It doesn't MATTER... (0+ / 0-)

          ...who Dean is supporting. It matters who the people he's discussing disenfranchising are supporting.

          T.

          •  Settle down with the "disenfranchisement" talk (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            Magenta, lgmcp

            If you think Dean's going to disenfranchise anyone or play favorites, you're insane.  It's not who he is.  Why does "coming to an arrangement" have to mean that somebody's being oppressed?

            I can see Terry Mac or James Carville doing that.  But Howard don't roll like that.  If you think he does, you ain't been paying attention.

            •  If he seats Mich. and Fla. (0+ / 0-)

              He's disenfranchised people. Simple as that. Yes, I said "if".

              T.

              •  Well let's see... (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                lgmcp

                Since the ENTIRE Democratic National Committee - including its delegates from Michigan and Florida voted on the nominating rules, I fail to see how Howard Dean is personally disenfranchising anyone.

                Who you should blame are the Party leaders in the states who permitted this to happen.

                BTW, is the technical use of the word "disenfranchisement" even valid in this case?  After all, nobody's voting rights or civil rights are being violated.  The only rules being violated are the Democratic Party's... by the states of Michigan and Florida.

      •  wreck his legacy ???????? (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Osiris, lgmcp

        Grow up. His job, which he ran for, is to get Democrats elected. He's no wild-eyed idealist. He is a practical politican who knows that a convention floor fight would be damaging to the party's image, and a compromise ticket would be positively viewed by the American people as the politically practical thing to do.

        "I'm not a member of any organized political party, ... I'm a Democrat." Will Rodgers

        by CCSDem on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 01:56:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  agree with exception to... (0+ / 0-)

      this wording:  

      Dean has done more to re-invent and re-invigorate people powered politics then anyone else and your slander can't diminish that.

      I think Dean helped to build the political vehicles to exploit the energies emerging from grass/netroots.

      So I give him points for being awake in class where others like Begala and Carville were comatose to the new realities shaping up on the ground.

      But that doesn't mean I trust Dean.  Nor do I think we are called to trust individuals in our political systems.  We rely upon process, not heroes.

      Tinkering with the processes, the rules of engagement upon which everyone relies, is a poison pill.  

      Shouldn't happen no matter what sort of "expediency" scenarios are rolled out in its defense.  Been there done that:  Bush V Gore, 12.12.00

      It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them. Alfred Adler

      by Quicksilver2723 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 03:13:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Yeah. Howard Dean . . . the machine pol (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Magenta, FleetAdmiralJ, lgmcp

    extraordinaire.

    "To be afraid is to behave as if the truth were not true." -- Bayard Ruskin

    by Joelarama on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 01:17:01 PM PDT

  •  This Obamacrat For "None Of The Above" (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Alpine fleece, ryan t

    I've always told people that Hillary's vote for the Iraq war and her subsequent failures to explain it, and her recent attempt to revise it into something completely different were a deal-breaker.

    I don't trust Hillary Clinton, and I don't trust her judgment.

    I can't vote for her, and if she's the nominee I won't vote for her.  No matter what.

    For what it's worth, I've voted for the Democratic candidate in the past 5 presidential elections.

    "I've been an oilman all my life, but this is one crisis we can't drill our way out of" --T. Boone Pickens

    by bincbom on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 01:17:09 PM PDT

  •  Dean is right (11+ / 0-)

    Waiting until the convention to work it out would be foolish. Modern conventions are like big three day TV advertisements for the campaigns. September is too late these days to be determining the nominee if you want to have a good chance to win.

    We'll know long before the convention where the delegate counts stand. What's the point in waiting until the convention for people to start making back room deals? There's no reason the same deals can't be made 3 months earlier.

  •  Oh good, another undying devotion diary (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Osiris, CCSDem, Chicagoa, Ms Johnson, ge0rge

    I'm impressed with your total commitment to your candidate and how he's the only one.  To the point of being against your own interests.  Dying for love is so poetic, don't you think.  Perhaps you have a future writing gothic romances.

    •  You didn't read (0+ / 0-)

      Take my vote away in order to favor a candidate and I won't vote for that candidate. Were HRC the candidate in a fair fight, I'd happily vote for her.

      Who controls the past, controls the future. Who controls the present, controls the past. George Orwell

      by moon in the house of moe on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 01:20:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  who is talking about... (0+ / 0-)

        "taking your vote away"??

        I did read your diary and there is nothing in it about that!
        If you are not a delegate to the national convention, then
        you never had a vote to take away, at least not directly.

        You will get to vote on at least half a dozen delegates to the national convention,
        and possibly more (like dozens, plural) if you are from a big state
        with a lot of at-large delegates.
        The only way your vote can be "taken away" is if the delegates
        that you helped elect, who will be pledged according to your preference,
        decide to violate their pledge to you.  In that case your beef lies wholly
        with them and not with any kind of brokers or kingmakers.

        "You can't nice these people to death."-- John Edwards

        by ge0rge on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 02:36:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I don't think the two of us... (0+ / 0-)

      ...read the same diary.

      You're reading into it your prejudices, when the fact of the matter was that it's about Dean trying to avoid the inevitable result of having a divisive figure like Clinton on the ballot. Yes, she'll have support. Yes, she'll have others who work to defeat her. What the hell kind of deal does he expect will solve that problem?

      T.

  •  Superdelegates are there to unify the party. (0+ / 0-)

    How are they going to do it?

  •  "Howard and his machine buddies" (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Magenta, Osiris, lgmcp, dougymi, Barry in MIA

    how times have changed

    here's a question - Hillary wins the total popular vote in all the primaries/caucases combined, but still needs the superdelegates to swing the nomination to her.  Is that problem for anyone? Does that subvert the 'will of the people'?  

  •  Well, if he had the support in the DNC to do it (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    The Crusader, Osiris, lgmcp, CCSDem

    he could always give super delegates a month to endorse a candidate, and if they don't, yank their superdelegate status.

    That would get us a nominee if one isn't clear after Pennsylvania

  •  So now we start the attacks on Dean . . . (8+ / 0-)

    shameful.  He's doing his freakin' job - - and done it well.

    John McCain says he'd be happy to see our troops in Iraq for another hundred years. I just can't agree with that.

    by Barry in MIA on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 01:20:38 PM PDT

  •  Let me see if I get this straight... (8+ / 0-)

    You're accusing Howard Dean of selling out to the Clinton machine?

    That's rich.

    His job is to make sure that the Democratic Party is strong enough to win the White House.  That is the main objective - not trying to appease Hillary or Obama.  This is bigger than them, as you should well know.  I applaud Dean's willingness to do what MUST be done in order to ensure a strong party.  And nobody's "voices will be silenced" - all the delegates will be counted and an assessment will be made based on who has the most come mid-April.

    Oh, and if you think for one second that Dean is personally supporting Hillary over Obama, you have a screw loose.

  •  I think it was ill-advised for Dean (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    rick, GOTV, trevzb, Sharon Jumper

    to attempt to float that lead balloon...

    John McCain - Like W. Only Older.

    Fu