Daily Kos

All but official-Obama won 2/5 delegate race by double digits

Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 09:58:35 AM PDT

As should be apparent to everyone by now, the Dem nomination battle is all about delegates.  There's been a lot of confusion about who won the delegate battle on Super Tuesday.  Obama claimed victory by 9 delegates, but the actual results have been slow to trickle in.  However, we now have enough results to be absolutely certain that Obama won and very likely by double digits.  My best guess is +13.

Here's what I base all of this on.  RealClearPolitics.com http://www.realclearpolitics.com/... updated its delegate count recently.  If you back out the superdelegates and the delegates won prior to 2/5, RCP has Clinton up 818 to 814 in the Super Tuesday delegate race.  However, of the 49 delegates uncounted, 41 are in IL, CO and GA, all states that Obama won by 2-1 margins.  Furthermore--and this is the clincher--we can now compare actual delegate counts, which are complete in 16 states to the spreadsheet the Obama campaign put out in the wee hours after Super Tuesday.  In those 16 states, which cover over 70% of the delegates at stake, the actual counts match Obama's projections precisely in 12 states.  In the other 4 states, Obama's count was very close--off by 1 vote in UT and MA and 2 votes in CA and NY.  Only in NY did Obama overestimate his actual delegate count.

Given the incredible accuracy of Obama's projections, we can assume that his spreadsheet for the states that are still outstanding (GA, AL, IL, TN, NM, CO and American Samoa) will be very accurate as well.  If those projections hold up, Obama will win the 2/5 delegate race by 13.  In any case, a double digit win is almost assured.

Why does all of this matter?  Well, let's consider how this thing is going to unfold.  Using +13, Obama is now up in pledged delegates by 28.  By my estimate, he'll add about 100 to this margin during the rest of February.  Remember, 8 of the 9 contests are either caucuses or states with an African-American population of at least 20%, so Obama getting a 100 vote net pickup out of about 450 delegates is entirely plausible--perhaps even conservative.  Then, we have VT, RI, OH and TX on March 4th, followed by WY and MS on the 11th.  Hillary may do well in OH and TX, but the chances of her cutting meaningfully into Obama's delegate lead will be small.  Each of OH and TX have about 12% African-American population--that's 5% more than CA.  And, remember when you translate that into a Democratic primary, you have to almost double the numbers ... so, the OH and TX primaries will be about 20/21% African-American vs. 12% in CA.  The big Hispanic population in TX helps, but offset by the fact that one-third of the TX delegates are chosen by caucus.  If she won CA by 10%, where she had much better demographics, I think that's a ceiling for her in OH and TX.  More likely, I see her winning narrowly, perhaps even losing one of the two.  My guess is that she picks up a net 10 delegates from the 370 available.  Obama would likely offset that the next week in WY (a caucus) and MS (37% African-American).

So, after March 11th, it looks like Obama might be up by around 130 among the pledged delegates.  My guess is that he'll also have nibbled away at Hillary's superdelegate margin and in any case I highly doubt she'll add a lot to her super D lead.  So, Obama will also lead in any delegate counts that include the super D's.  If Obama really does have a 130 delegate lead among pledged delegates, in wooing the superdelegates he will have a strong case that he is the voter's choice.  After all, even if Hillary won in double digits in PA (plausible), Obama would more than offset that in NC (22% African-American, which translates into a primary electorate that will be almost 40% African-American).  And, outside of Puerto Rico, the other states will not be enough to make a significant dent.  As Michael Barone has pointed out, Puerto Rico, for reasons I don't fully understand, usually ends up going as a block one way or another.  However, like it or not, neither Obama nor Clinton will want to base any argument on getting all of Puerto Rico's delegates.

A 130 delegate margin in pledged delegates sounds pretty good if your an Obama supporter.  But, in fact, there is very little margin for error here.  Why?  Because Hillary will make the case that this spread disenfranchises MI and FL voters, who if seated, would give her a net 111 delegates.

Bottom line, I think we're looking at one of five scenarios:

  1. The dynamic of the race changes (due to a major gaffe, for example) whereby Obama or Clinton surges ahead in the overall polls and obtains indisputable momentum.
  1. Obama squeaks by in both OH and TX, the superdelegates begin to fall into line and Hillary either concedes before PA or loses PA and concedes immediately thereafter.
  1. Obama builds up enough of a pledged delegate margin to exceed the 111 net delegates for Hillary from MI and FL, and with a little arm-twisting from Howard Dean, the superdelegates fall into line (albeit more slowly, painfully, and nerve-wrackingly than would be the case in scenario 2).  Note:  I think the real threshold here is probably the psychologically important 100 delegate margin.  After all, most of the 111 comes from not counting the uncommitted MI delegates and most of those will be for Obama.
  1. Hillary chips away in the delegate race and keeps Obama's lead under 100.  Then things get very, very, very interesting.  (Note: for Hillary to actually win the pledged delegate count, she would have to have such big victories in March, that I would put this into scenario #1.)  

 

Tags: delegates, Obama, Clinton (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 112 comments

  •  Puerto Rico (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    librarianman, ManhattanMan

    Literally 99% of Puerto Ricans don't even know they have a caucus. Both of the main political parties, PNP and PPD, are generally Democratic parties, so with a caucus so late in the cycle they bring turn out a few party flacks and send the delegates en masse to whichever candidate has already won the nomination before their vote was held.

  •  Good diary (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    librarianman, little liberal

    But I don't get your focus on the Michigan/Florida delegates. They are not going to be seated like this. The only way these two states get a say is if they hold a caucus later this spring. All other options would completely discredit the DLC, not going to happen. So you can safely forget the 111 delegates.

    •  they just might (0+ / 0-)

      have an open caucus (sort of like a party sponsored primary).

      I hope they do.  Hillary will win both states decisively, and that will hopefully get us to a winner - her.

      Voting rights are our most important rights because all the other ones depend on them

      by markusd on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:10:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  FL yes, MI no (0+ / 0-)

        If both states hold open caucuses Obama will win Michigan and Hillary will win Florida.  Detroit will come out in full force for Obama. Clinton cannot overcome that.

        Hillary will win Florida, but nothing like the margins of January.

        The net result would be a slight Hillary advantage only because Florida has more delegates. I'd be cool with this.

  •  This will never happen (0+ / 0-)

    Obama squeaks by in both OH and TX, the superdelegates begin to fall into line and Hillary either concedes before PA or loses PA and concedes immediately thereafter.

    Too many lower income workers in those states.  

    Obama has not won them over in any state, and he won't start doing so now.  They are looking for someone to fight for their interests, not someone who will sing Kumbaya with the Republicans who have been screwing them for forty years.  And they don't let Chris Matthews do their thinking for them either.

    Voting rights are our most important rights because all the other ones depend on them

    by markusd on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:09:30 AM PDT

    •  Yeah, because your pro-war candidate (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      librarianman, crankyinNYC

      is really concerned about channeling resources to the poor.  Your position is absurd.

      Rebellion keeps us always erect in the savage, formless movement of history. - Albert Camus

      by mad clamor on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:12:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  then they must be stupid, right? (0+ / 0-)

        They seem to think she is the best candidate for their interests, that's why they vote for her.  Guess they're just not as sharp as you are about figuring this stuff out.

        Voting rights are our most important rights because all the other ones depend on them

        by markusd on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 03:14:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  As apposed to someone (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      RichM, ESkog

      Like Clinton that is holding hands with McCain already?  Remember that quote?  I do.

    •  Can you work in ``TEH SNUB?'' (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Hope08

      I mean you have a lot the BS Hillary cliches, but you need a few more.  Let me help you out.

      These voters didn't go for Jesse Jackson, and they won't like a guy who admits to listening to Jay-Z either.  I bet he wouldn't even shake their hand, with all his fancy degrees and stuff.  

      There.  That's much better.

      Ortiz/Ramírez '08

      by theran on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:13:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Prognostication is unconvincing (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      theran

      when peppered with cheap shots against a candidate.

      Yes, Obama will have an uphill battle in those states -- but the proportionaal allocation means that they won't hurt him that much in the delegate count.  Don't forget Texas' large black population and weird hybrid primary/caucus as well.

      •  He won't be our nominee (0+ / 0-)

        If he can't win over average working people - you know, the people our party is supposed to represent?

        Mark my words, he will not be our nominee at the end of this process.  His coalition is missing too many core Democratic constituencies.

        Voting rights are our most important rights because all the other ones depend on them

        by markusd on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 03:17:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  You are wrong about Texas (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Cixelsyd, ESkog

      We have twice the African American population of CA and they are in the congressional districts where the most delegates are.  The heavy Latino districts have only 22 of the 128 delegates up for grabs.  They tend to be Republican as well so they won't be showing up in mass for Hillary.  Obama has offices in both Houston and Austin, he will do very well here.  See the complete breakdown here http://www.lonestarproject.net/...

  •  Obama hasn't won anything yet in the February (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    CaptUnderpants, theran, ahania

    states.  Clinton could very well surprise him in Virginia, and will probably win Maine.

    Wisconsin is another one she could win.

    "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

    by Geekesque on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:11:49 AM PDT

    •  Virginia not likely (0+ / 0-)

      Maine and Wisconsin, different story.

      If Obama loses Viginia, it does not bode well for him at all.

      Want a progressive global warming novel, not a right wing rant? Go to www.edwardgtalbot.com for a free audio thriller.

      by eparrot on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:12:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I cannot imagine a better state than ME for her (0+ / 0-)

      If I was going to make one up, that would be it.

      Ortiz/Ramírez '08

      by theran on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:14:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  No VA Surprise (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      theran

      Most polls are showing Obama with a double digit lead that is trending upwards.  And all of the major political machinery of Virginia's Democratic party has lined up behind him.

      If she has a surprise win in VA it will be because of massive Republican raiding.

      don't respond to the lies... put two bits in your Obama jar and spite them with his fund raising!

      by Libesatva on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:17:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Polls are useless (4+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        fabacube, Cixelsyd, ESkog, Libesatva

        Hillary is the frontrunner, and she is going to sweep on Tues.  After all, DC is basically one of her home states, and it's quite close to VA and MD.  Also, LA shares a border with Arkansas, another of Hillary's home states.

        This is nearly over, unless Obama can pull off epic upsets.

        Ortiz/Ramírez '08

        by theran on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:18:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  uh? she's not gonna get DC (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          theran, Skulnick

          I live here and almost everyone I know is for Obama.

        •  She won't get MD or DC. But VA is (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          theran, Skulnick

          the real battleground.

          If she loses that one, it hurts.  If she loses it badly, she's in a heap of trouble.

          "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

          by Geekesque on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:20:43 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  She has a better shot at Maryland (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            theran, MadEye

            I've worked in both states (for a state senator in VA and here on Governor's campaigns and Mayor's elections) and I currently live in Maryland. There is no way Clinton has a shot at Virginia. Just no way. She is loathed by the conservative Democrats out in Southwest Virginia. Virginia has a large African American population in the Norfolk and Richmond areas. Tidewater has a big naval base--mostly young voters there, and so far the military has given far more to Obama. And the area surrounding DC is affluent and highly educated. Those demographics equal a nightmare for Clinton. Add that to the fact that the party apparatus--led by Gov. Tim Kaine--has been behind Obama for 9 months, the fact Clinton isn't really advertising in Virginia markets (discounting suburban DC) and Obama is clearly going to win Virginia.

            She has a better shot at Maryland. Not a good shot mind you, but a better shot. The demographics here are similar to Virginia. But suburban Baltimore is a little bit different. It is a hub of older, white middle class voters--Clinton's base. Suburban Baltimore--Baltimore County--has enough votes to offset Baltimore City. However, the margin in Baltimore City is likely to be so high that the county can't offset it because there is a black population in the county too (just not a large one) and there are a few pockets of highly educated professionals (Randallstown). Add that to the fact that Prince George's County is a highly educated and affluent county with a very large black population and Montgomery County is the wealthiest and most educated county in the country, and you're seeing why it'll be hard for Clinton here.

            But if she gets enough votes in Baltimore County, wins the rest of the state but PG and Montgomery, and wins Anne Arundel County by a significant margin, she could eek out a 500 vote victory here. Unlikely, but possible. She also has the Governor--unpopular at the moment but still extraordinarily powerful because of jobs at his disposal--in her corner. So that helps too.

            Prediction: Obama will win both VA and Maryland, but Maryland will be closer than VA.      

            Obama/Casey, my personal dream ticket.

            by The Bagof Health and Politics on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:32:32 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Isn't Maryland's vote something like 40% Af-Am (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              theran

              in the Democratic primary?

              Hard to imagine her winning under those circumstances--and I'm one prone to having very low expectations.

              I get the point about suburban Baltimore, though.

              How is her ground game in MD?  I understand she has some politicos supporting her there.

              "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

              by Geekesque on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:41:49 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  27% and one more thing (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                CaptUnderpants

                Maryland's Primary is closed, meanwhile Virginia is a no registration state and Independents and Republicans can vote in the Democratic Primary if they want to. Add that to the list of reasons why there is no way Clinton wins Virginia, but a very slight and unlikely way that she wins Maryland.

                Obama/Casey, my personal dream ticket.

                by The Bagof Health and Politics on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:44:47 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  She is non-existent here (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                theran

                I live in the most right-wing area of the state (Hagerstown, far western Maryland). She should do well here, and she clearly does have some support. That said, I've yet to see a single Hillary sign, a single Hillary bumper sticker, a sole Hillary volunteer on the street corner waiving a sign, get a single phone call from her campaign. She is apparently running a very limited ad in DC, but I don't get DC TV, so I haven't seen it.

                So far, the extent of the Maryland for Clinton campaign has been an e-mail I got from the Governor begging me to show up at a rally in Annapolis with her on Saturday. That's it.

                Under normal circumstances, the Governor's support would be quite useful. Maryland's Governor controls a ridiculous number of patronage appointments (9,000) and is extraordinarily powerful as we have a relatively weak part-time legislature. But, and here's the big but, he just supported an unpopular budget reform. It did things like eliminate proposed luxury taxes on things like salons and jewelry and create a car tax. His approval rating has plummeted to the low 30s. And he has staked his Governorship on an unpopular slots referendum which may fail and is not liked by the black community (which opposes slots, largely because of the influence of the Baptist Church there).

                He is getting to the point where he might face a primary challenge in 2010. The two would-be Governors--Comptroller (another very powerful position here) Peter Franchot (D-Montgomery County) and Attorney General Doug Gansler (D-Montgomery County) have both lined up behind Obama to keep their options open among other things.

                The Governor endorsed Clinton well before the shenanigans, but it is not helpful to his current predicament. So while he sent out an e-mail and is having a rally, I don't expect him to do much more than that for her. Behind the scenes, his people tried to line up some activists behind here last month. But when it was apparent they were staring at a brick wall, they gave that up.  

                Obama/Casey, my personal dream ticket.

                by The Bagof Health and Politics on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:52:29 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Sounds similar to Atlanta (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  theran

                  On the Friday before Super Tuesday, Obama signs started popping up like wild flowers across the city.  But Hillary signs were strangely absent, except in Cobb County (a strange place for them as Cobb hasn't voted for a Democrat since Carter).

                  In the end Obama took Georgia by a landslide.

                  don't respond to the lies... put two bits in your Obama jar and spite them with his fund raising!

                  by Libesatva on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 11:04:45 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  She's not going to get 15% in DC (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          theran, ESkog

          The DC voters in the Democratic Primary=87% African American. No way she wins there.

          Obama/Casey, my personal dream ticket.

          by The Bagof Health and Politics on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:22:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Are you an (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          theran

          Obama supporter trying lower expectations?  (And I ask in order to give the benefit of the doubt)

          DC is the most African-American state (so to speak) in the country by leaps and bounds, the whites are very young, and the creative class is abundant.  If Obama doesn't win it 5-1 he'll be disappointed.  

      •  She has a better chance in Maryland (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        theran

        But that is a very, very slim chance. The signs I see indicate that Obama will win here. But the party apparatus has lined up behind Clinton. Maryland voters do not follow the whims of the apparatus, as we backed Tsongsas on Super Tuesday in 1992. My guess is Obama will have a solid but not spectacular victory in line with Connecticut here.

        Obama/Casey, my personal dream ticket.

        by The Bagof Health and Politics on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:21:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Not going to happen (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      theran

      There is just no way Clinton comes close to Obama in a primary that is going to be one-third African-American.  Best case for her is she gets a bit over 20% of the African-American vote and a bit over 60% of the rest.  She would still lose.  More likely, she loses by 15% as the polls are now suggesting (one of which is SUSA which as Kos pointed out was scarily accurate on 2/5).

  •  he will not win NM, so 2 delegate swing (0+ / 0-)

    look at the NM Dem party site, Clinton has a 1000 vote lead before provisionals.  Unless somehow those provisionals are way in Obama's favor, he will lose NM.

    Want a progressive global warming novel, not a right wing rant? Go to www.edwardgtalbot.com for a free audio thriller.

    by eparrot on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:11:56 AM PDT

  •  Thanks for this diary (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Cixelsyd

    It's important for Obama to get 100+ more delegates:

    Chris Bowers:

    If Obama wins non-Michigan and Florida pledged delegates by more than 100, then he will win the nomination. From that point, he will be able to dictate the rules of the convention via the credentials committee, and win.

    •  Credentials Commitee (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Oothoon

      has already been seated, I think?

      Saw something about it at MyHRC...errrr... MyDD.

      Lots of whining about it being made up of Obama people.  But then -- what did they expect.  The Clinton's preferred chair, Harold Ickes - got knocked out early and they couldn't find an alternative to coalesce around Dean.

      Don't get me wrong - I'm sure Dean is trying to play it as neutral as possible, but I'm absolutely, 100% not worried about needing to fight the DNC on any of this.

      I guess everyone's got their own blog now.

      by zonk on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:27:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Obama is behind 96 delegates according to CNN (0+ / 0-)

    If he can't win Texas, Ohio or PA outright, he won't win the nomination, and will not deserve to be the nominee.  His numbers are artificially inflated by the fact that Florida's votes have not yet counted.

    Alternative rock with something to say: http://www.myspace.com/globalshakedown

    by khyber900 on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:12:30 AM PDT

    •  CNN (0+ / 0-)

      uses superdelegates... if he can make up that gap in February and keep it close in Ohio, TX and PA, he's leading by all counts.

      Florida will never get seated if it means the candidate behind in delegates gets the nomination.  florida only gets seated if it doesn't change the final outcome.

      Matt

      In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope.

      by Cixelsyd on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:16:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Superdelegates count too. (0+ / 0-)

        and Hillary has a better shot at keeping the mid-Atlantic states close in the delegate count than he does in Ohio, PA and TX.  The reason is simple:  Obama doesn't have much reach beyond the traditional democratic bastions.  In primary states, she is winning the urban, rural and suburban counties.  She has the edge.

        Alternative rock with something to say: http://www.myspace.com/globalshakedown

        by khyber900 on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:24:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  umm.... (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          ESkog

          In primary states, she is winning the urban, rural and suburban counties.  She has the edge.

          So what does leave Obama winning? Urban, rural, and suburban doesn;t elave a whole lot of real estate for him to win...

          Is Idaho not rural?  Kansas? How about Utah?

          Is St. Louis not urban?  Kansas City?  He won Missouri on the urban vote.

          Both candidates have won in both Urban and rural areas.  To claim otherwise is somewhat disingenuous.

          Matt

          In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope.

          by Cixelsyd on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:28:59 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Idaho and Kansas were caucuses (0+ / 0-)

            as were Minnesota, Colorado and Alaksa.  Caucuses turn out liberal democratic activists, and it's quite clear that is Obama's base.  They are biased against working class americans and non-activists, where Hillary is strong.

            Moreover, there is absolutely no way that Obama or any Democrat can win Idaho, Alaska, or Utah in a general election.  Those are the deepest of the red states.

            As for Missouri, he won the democratic bastions of St. Louis County and KC.  Those are areas that democrats win no matter who the candidate is.  We could nominate a ham sandwich and people would still vote democrat.

            However, he carried virtually nothing inbetween KC and STL and that spells trouble for the general election.

            Alternative rock with something to say: http://www.myspace.com/globalshakedown

            by khyber900 on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:51:00 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Democrats never carry anything between KC and STL (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              theran

              Missouri's returns every election night look something like this:

              1. Early returns come in from small rural polling places and the Republican looks to be ahead by a bundle.
              1. Stuff starts trickling in from KC area and St. Louis County and the race gets really close again.
              1. Reports of long lines in St. Louis City delay the final returns and it's ridiculously close.

              Democrats have not done well outside of KC, St. Louis, and college town Columbia, and don't need to in order to carry the state.

            •  The infamous NOT REAL VOTERS theory (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Cixelsyd

              Whenever HIllary loses, it's because the voters were drawn from a suspect population.

              Ortiz/Ramírez '08

              by theran on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:56:37 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Whatever CNN is showing is out of date (5+ / 0-)

      But, that (a) includes superdelegates, (b) does not include about 40 delegates in CO, IL, GA, where he cleaned up.

    •  haha!! spinnaroooo!!! (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Thaddaeus Toad

      if you want an accurate pledged delegate count, go here:

      http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...

    •  Puerto Rico is winner take all (0+ / 0-)

      The Super Delegate comment is right. Plus, Puerto Rico's 63 delegates are, bizarrely, winner take all.

      http://www.usnews.com/...

      I would give Obama the slight edge in Puerto Rico, as it voted for Jackson back in the 80s...

      Obama/Casey, my personal dream ticket.

      by The Bagof Health and Politics on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:37:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not a chance. (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        theran

        Alternative rock with something to say: http://www.myspace.com/globalshakedown

        by khyber900 on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 11:22:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You're wrong (0+ / 0-)

          It is largely Hispanic, but it is Hispanic of African decent--as most of the Caribbean is. Hispanic is a term which describes a broad and diverse group.

          While the Hispanics who have voted so far went 60-40 to Clinton, I suspect that the Hispanics in Puerto Rico have different identifiers, different problems, and are slightly more likely to vote for Obama than Clinton.

          Obama/Casey, my personal dream ticket.

          by The Bagof Health and Politics on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 12:04:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  No, you're wrong (0+ / 0-)

            Puerto Rico is not primarily Hispanic of African decent.  Go read an encyclopedia or visit the island.  The island population primarily identifies itself as white, but in reality most people are of mixed heritage.  (spanish/european, african, and taino indian)  It's a true melting pot.  But you'd be surprised at how many blonde people there are there (especially in the rural areas)

            The diversity on the island is very unique.  Think Ricky Martin to Roberto Clemente.  It's a wonderful place and if you have any questions feel free to ask.  I am Puerto Rican myself.

          •  check out this video for example (0+ / 0-)

            upscale mall in San Juan, this is pretty typical of the population in middle class areas:

            http://youtube.com/...

            btw, I should have been more clear to say that yes all of Puerto Rico is indeed "hispanic" but the heritage is not as African as a place such as the Dominican Republic.  Another dynamic that may have given you that perception is that most of the Puerto Ricans who migrate to the Northeast/NYC area tend to be poorer and thus afro-caribbean due to a history or subtle discrimination.

      •  Puerto Rico is solidly for Hillary Clinton (0+ / 0-)

        You seem quite clueless on the whole Puerto Rico topic.  I'd suggest you refrain from trying to sound like you know anything about it.

        Out of all places in the U.S. Clinton's support in P.R. is probably second only to her support in Arkansas.

  •  GOOD (0+ / 0-)

    So Obama has a 28 delegates lead if you count Iowa , NH , SC alongside all the states who voted on super tuesday?

  •  none of those scenarios is most likely (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    theran, ahania

    Most likely is Obama extends his lead rest of the month, Hillary wins OH and TX and they are almost even in delegates at that point.

    Want a progressive global warming novel, not a right wing rant? Go to www.edwardgtalbot.com for a free audio thriller.

    by eparrot on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:14:07 AM PDT

  •  YOu haven't done your math (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    theran

    Look, I hope you're right.  But Obama winning those 450 delegates 275 to 175 is not likely when you go state by state and district by district and see what has to happen.

    Want a progressive global warming novel, not a right wing rant? Go to www.edwardgtalbot.com for a free audio thriller.

    by eparrot on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:15:59 AM PDT

    •  I've done the math ... have you? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Cixelsyd

      Look at Obama's margins to date in (a) caucus states and (b) states that were heavily African-American.  When you look at the upcoming states, they resemble KS, MN, GA, SC, IA, AL where Obama racked up big margins.

      •  big delegate margin in IA? (0+ / 0-)

        I fail to see how Washington and Maine really resemble any of those states.  Wisconsin is somewhat like Iowa, I suppose.  Virgina and MD are primaries of course.  Louisiana does resemble those states you mention, and he should win big there and in DC.  Sure, he could surprise in Washington and Maine, but I just don't see him racking up the kind of delegate counts he'd need.

        I admit, I no nothing about how Hawaii might pan out.

        Want a progressive global warming novel, not a right wing rant? Go to www.edwardgtalbot.com for a free audio thriller.

        by eparrot on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 04:43:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  wisconsin (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    theran

    Does Wisconsin have a caucus or a primary?

    •  Wisconsin (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      theran, Mojo Jojo

      is a primary.

      Madison and Milwaukee will deliver for the big O.

      Workers of the world unite--back by popular demand.

      by Kab ibn al Ashraf on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:19:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wisconsin low down (4+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        CaptUnderpants, theran, ESkog, Mojo Jojo

        I've already broken down Wisconsin, which has 74 delegates at stake on the 19th.

        District delegates: 48

        CD 1: 6
        CD 2: 8 (this is Madison's district)
        CD 3: 6
        CD 4: 6 (this is Milwaukee)
        CD 5: 5
        CD 6: 5
        CD 7: 6
        CD 8: 6

        At large, based on statewide totals: 26

        Here's how the allocation will end up:

        CD 1: 3-3
        CD 2: 5-3 Obama (he'd have to win 67% of CD2 to make this 6-2; not impossible, but unlikely. There is a ton of Obama energy in Madison.)
        CD 3: 3-3 Tie
        CD 4: 4-2 Obama (he'll get over 62.5% in Milwaukee)
        CD 5: 3-2 Clinton
        CD 6: 3-2 Clinton
        CD 7: 3-3 Tie
        CD 8: 3-3 Tie

        I believe Obama will win statewide by a few points; the at-larges will split 14-12 in his favor, (which puts him between 52-55 of the vote). He'll do weakest in the 5th and 6th, and she'll probably win the 7th and 8th as well, with the 1st and 3rd being more tossups. He could possibly perform well in the 8th, depending on independent turnout - a trip to Appleton and the Fox Cities should definitely be on Obama's agenda.

        Probable delegates totals:
        Obama: 39
        Clinton: 35

        The best Obama can do is maybe an 8 delegate advantage, by winning another delegate in the 2nd, another delegate statewide, and another in the 3rd (which is home to Eau Claire and LaCrosse, both of which are college towns).

        Remember, Wisconsin

        1. Has a tremendously high student population, and usually has the highest or second highest youth turnout in the nation year in and out. Also, the student population is pretty geographically dispersed; a good portion is in Madison and Milwaukee, but there are quite a few 10,000+ campuses in CDs other than the 2nd and 4th.
        1. Allows independents can vote in the primary

        Ironically, as I was writing this, I heard an Obama radio ad on Z104 in Madison, which is the local pop music station and gets a ton of young listener. So it begins.

        in the unlikely story that is america, there has never been anything false about hope. yes we can!

        by defyingravity on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:38:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Like I said (0+ / 0-)

          (minus the precision!)  Madison and Milwaukee will deliver for the Big O.

          Big O could filled all 7 blocks of State Street if he gave a rally there...

          Workers of the world unite--back by popular demand.

          by Kab ibn al Ashraf on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:42:33 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Interesting analysis. (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          theran

          Any word on the ground games or support from local pols?

          "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

          by Geekesque on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:56:37 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  . (0+ / 0-)

            Obama
            Governor Jim Doyle
            Gwen Moore (D-WI04)
            David Obey (D-WI07)
            Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett
            Former Attorney General Peg Lautenschlager

            Clinton
            Lt. Governor Barbara Lawton
            Tammy Baldwin (D-WI02)
            Dane County Exec. Kathleen Falk

            Still on the sidelines:
            Senator Russ Feingold
            Senator Herb Kohl
            Ron Kind (D-WI03)
            Steve Kagen (D-WI08)

            Also, a bunch of Edwards supporters to keep your eye on:
            Madison Mayor Dave Cieslewicz
            State Treasurer Dawn Sass
            Secretary of State Doug LaFollette
            State Senate Majority Leader Russ Decker
            Assembly Minority Leader Jim Kreuser

            As far as state reps and senators, I don't know the breakdown; many with were Edwards, so we'll have to see how they move. Obama's got at least 16 of the 47 state reps, a few of whom moved to him in the past week after Edwards dropped out. My guess is he'll pick up the great deal of that support.

            Lots of rumors on the ground suggest that state legislators think Hillary will be a nightmare for them in November, so we'll see if that's reflected in the run-up to Wisconsin in terms of endorsements.

            in the unlikely story that is america, there has never been anything false about hope. yes we can!

            by defyingravity on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 11:43:11 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Yeah, the analysis (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            theran

            is this: UW Madison = Obama Office.  

            That's the word from my friends on the street in Madison.

            Workers of the world unite--back by popular demand.

            by Kab ibn al Ashraf on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 11:46:25 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  And once the Red adults and Progressive Dane (0+ / 0-)

              get over the fact that Edwards is no longer in the race, they break for Obama, because they are educated and know what the Clintons did in the 1990's and how she voted on Iraq and Iran.

              Workers of the world unite--back by popular demand.

              by Kab ibn al Ashraf on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 11:49:11 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Primary (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Cixelsyd

      but it's an open primary.

      Having lots of cheesehead friends (Madison, Milwaukee, and outside of Green Bay) - I can tell you that I feel quite good about Wisconsin.

      WI has always been good to insurgent candidates, too.

      We gotta work it -- I'm planning to do some volunteering in WI with my Obama friends there -- but it's fertile ground.

      I guess everyone's got their own blog now.

      by zonk on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:24:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm not writing off (6+ / 0-)

    OH, TX, or PA (OK, maybe PA... it's an NY border state and the final state that demographically suits HRC perfectly).

    They are uphill climbs -- but Obama will have time (and money) to do what he couldn't really do in CA (or MA and NJ, for that matter).

    He had just 10 days between focusing on SC and SuperTuesday... that spread among 22 states.  He simply couldn't focus on CA.

    For all the hullabaloo about Shriver and Kennedy -- there's no substitute for an Obama camp-out.  He couldn't do that.

    For all the silly blather over the weekend and Monday -- I still remember a pundit saying the day after the CA debate that Obama had basically decided he was "satisfied with losing by 5-10 points" -- and basically left the state for events elsewhere.  With some highly suspect polls coming out -- and irrational exuberance by Team Obama -- everyone shot the moon.

    Obama didn't expect to win CA and he really - he didn't try to win CA during the last 3-4-5 days before.  He wanted to make sure he didn't get blown out by CA... and he accomplished that.

    Now... with OH and TX (first on 3/4) -- he has time.  He can advertise.  

    Were I Axelrod - I would blanket both OH and TX with ads right now.  Lord knows he has the cash.  Do some honest, frank "before and after" polling.  See where he can most move the needle.  

    Then -- after WI -- camp out in one state.  Spend teh whole week there... go from city to city -- doing the trademark 10K-15K-20K events.

    Don't forget too -- TX has a squirrelly delegate process... 2/3 by primary, the other 1/3 by caucus.  And Obama has 10 field offices in TX to HRC's zero.

    TX and OH are still very much Obama longshots.... but I'm Axelrod -- I see if I can land a knock-out punch in one... or who knows - if the February tide starts really rising, or other events intercede -- both.

    OH is where something like a JRE endorsement would be critical.  If Edwards were to back Obama, I think OH suddenly becomes toss-up.

    I guess everyone's got their own blog now.

    by zonk on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:19:08 AM PDT

  •  Thanks for this (0+ / 0-)

    I still think we're putting too much on delegates, but we'll know soon if this thing is going to break one way. If Barack wins a string through the beltway primaries it might move TX and OH into his column and that should seal it. If Hillary comes back now it may come down to Puerto Rico and SuperDelegates and how/if FL & MI will be represented (not all of which is going to make the Democratic party look good).

    Love that "power of the purse!" It looks so nice up there on the mantle (and not the table) next to the "subpoena power."

    by Sacramento Dem on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:20:41 AM PDT

  •  At the end of this (3+ / 0-)

    BHO will have more popular votes, more delegates, and more states.  The superdel's risk their careers if they hand HRC the nomination.  And some actually do have a conscience.

    Obama/DailyKos '08

    Workers of the world unite--back by popular demand.

    by Kab ibn al Ashraf on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:23:26 AM PDT

  •  Lets wait for the official count before we crown (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    theran

    Obama.

  •  Texas DOES Not lean Clinton! (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    wu ming, ESkog

    I think people seem to forget, Houston has about 150,000 African Americans who relocated from New Orleans after Katrina. So the # of AA voters is a big chunk of the Texas Dem party which was already high before Katrina.  

    #2 The CLintons are not well liked by GOP voters who can cross over and vote in the primaries, #3 It's a caucus state too which will help balance any advantage were Clinton to win the popular vote (which I think is highly debatable.)

  •  Super-delegates choose the nominee- civil war (0+ / 0-)

    There is no way dem voters are going to accept a nominee who does not have the great portion of elected delegates. So all this talk about super-delegates should be forgotten, not counted. I may be mistaken, but unless the party insiders want to commit suicide, the nominee with the most elected delegates will be the one nominated by the party. Any annointing by party bosses will mean civil war, a walk-out by the other side, maybe a third party run and so on.. so let's not even discuss super-delegates. They don't matter.

    •  be sure, they will count (0+ / 0-)

      where is the "don#t change the rules ingame" among Obamas campain now on this?

      Superdelegates are installed the first place to count and to give the party people a say. Why do you fear there judgement?

    •  Exactly right -- superdelegates are irrelevant (0+ / 0-)

      They will, of course, be counted.  But if they try to steal the election away from the choice of the Democratic voters, they anoint John McCain.  

      The superdelegates are going to end up being a ceremonial stamp of approval to confirm the choice of the people.  That's the extent of their influence.  They won't self-destruct the party just to stand up for Hillary.

      ---
      "If Obama is the nominee, we are doomed." -Rush Limbaugh
      "Always speak before Barack Obama, not after Barack Obama." -Olbermann

      by Troutnut on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 11:39:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Go Obama! (0+ / 0-)

    I think he can win or tie in Ohio and I believe that's all he needs to do.  And he needs to come within about 10 points of her in Texas - also completely doable.  Pennsylvania will be tough - Ed Rendell has endorsed Clinton.  But if Obama sweeps this weekend, look out, because his momentum will be hard to stop.

    THAT'S WHY EVERYONE NEEDS TO START PHONEBANKING FOR OBAMA IN WASHINGTON RIGHT NOW!!!!!

  •  100 delegate lead in Feb is unrealistic (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    theran

    I've seen this number thrown around quite a bit.  I'm looking at the "leaked" Obama delegate spreadsheet and they estimate he will be up by 50.  There's a good chance he will beat that by 10 or so, but highly unlikely the rest of Feb will net him 100.  Here's the estimates:

    Louisiana: +6
    Neb: +6
    Virgin Is: +1
    WA : +20
    Maine: -4
    Dems Abroad: +3
    DC: +3
    Maryland +4
    Virginia: +3
    Hawaii: +2
    Wisconsin: +6
    Total: +50

    As you can see there's simply not a whole lot of room to squeeze another 50 delegates out of these states.  He could definitely get 60 or even 70, but netting 100 is just out of the question.  Tell me where I'm wrong here.

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