Tell Me Why...

Tell me why Obama supporters were told to quit whining when we objected to certain campaign tactics, but the world must grind to a halt because you don't like the composition of a flier...

Tell me why so many HRC supporters threw massive fits (rightfully so) at the idea that any true progressive would support McCain if Obama didn't get the nomination, but the same argument coming from the other side spends a day on the rec list...

Tell me why all Obama supporters are subject to guilt-by-association for the inappropriate rudeness of a few...

Tell me why HRC supporters (rightfully) get so angry when her and Bill's comments are taken out of context, but have no problem with continued mischaracterizations of Obama's...

Tell me why certain states are 'irrelevant' because Hillary didn't campaign in them, but a state which didn't even have the other candidates on the ballot should count...

and to be fair...

Tell me why certain Obama supporters are so adamant that he should be the leader of the free world, but don't seem willing to follow his leadership in how they approach politics (hint: it's the tone, stupid)...

Tell me why, after New Hampshire, people still go gaga over polls...

Tell me why we don't police our own ranks better...

•  Tips/Flames

  Short and cathartic tonight y'all. Just some things I've been thinking lately. Feel free to add to the list... just keep it cool and try not to be insulting or crass to either side....

  by Aethern on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 08:53:17 PM PDT

•  Ummmmm....

  (hint: it's the tone, stupid)...

  by MediaFreeze on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 08:55:57 PM PDT

  •  yes?

    did you have a comment on that?

    In case you misunderstood, that's a reference to the 1992 'it's the economy, stupid' thing, not meant to actually call anybody stupid...

    by Aethern on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 08:57:29 PM PDT

•  Some folk are just tone deaf ;)

  by palantir on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 09:00:32 PM PDT

  •  well said

    It does take practice, though. I'm certainly far from perfect in that regard, but I happen to think Obama's right about our nation's politics and the possibility to change it. Basically it starts with numero uno...

    by Aethern on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 09:02:33 PM PDT

•  Many questions, one answer

  Because people are excited and they want to win.  Much as I dislike the results sometimes, I don't have a problem with the overarching reason.

  by Rich in PA on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 09:03:02 PM PDT

  •  good point

    I'll admit I've found myself guilty of double standards a few more times than I'd like to admit this primary season.

    by Aethern on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 09:05:41 PM PDT

•  i would much rather talk about

  all the crushing ads/talking points/soundbytes the democratic nominee has to choose from against John McCain.

  I think it would make a great diary. . and I am sure there will be plenty, but as of now, I'm tired of dems fighting each other.

  There will be more wars, folks.
  The photo of Mccain hugging Bush.
  Bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran.
  "experience" of a jurrasic fossil
  His positvely boring babbling speeches

  his flip flops. his defense of Bush and the inevitability of Bush stumping for him, maybe cheney too. shit this will be easy.

  by donailin on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 09:06:54 PM PDT

  •  I hope so

    At this point I'm seriously concerned about a 1968 convention type of situation if the party doesn't figure something out, and soon... You're right, the victory is there, but not if we rip ourselves apart first.

    by Aethern on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 09:08:43 PM PDT

•  I can't wait for the primaries to be over

  so we can get on to kicking John McCain's ass.

  by LeftHandedMan on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 09:17:54 PM PDT

  •  my bad

    clicked the wrong button!

    That was supposed to be a recommend, for your sig if nothing else. Corrected!

    by Aethern on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 09:26:48 PM PDT

    •  We are all good :)

      n/t

      by LeftHandedMan on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 09:32:51 PM PDT

•  Because There Are Real Stakes Here

  and force beats rationality.

  A fair economy requires all kinds of constraints and enforcement against excess power.

  Fair rational discussion requires the same thing, but our single dimension conception of free speech makes us refuse to accept that. So our discourse is a sitting duck for those who find advantage and are able to overwhelm them.

  by Gooserock on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 09:23:22 PM PDT

  •  excellent point

    I do think there are alot of folks here these days on both sides doing nothing but throwing poo for the express purpose of pissing people off and shutting down rational discussion... or maybe they're just idiots.. sometimes I can't tell.

    by Aethern on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 09:25:56 PM PDT

•  There is a wave of newbies...

  ... who haven't seen anything but this discord, so they perpetuate it... that is part of it.

  Did you read Meteor Blade's diary earlier?

  by highacidity on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 09:31:50 PM PDT

  •  most definitely

    That diary put alot of what's been on my mind into words... And I'm really all about it, but then again, not thirty seconds ago, I just got told I was an 'obama clone' with 'no rationality' in another thread because I had the temerity to disagree with someone regarding health care mandates.

    I have to tell myself that it's not fair to pidgeonhole every HRC supporter based on that one person, but it's only human to want to let fly with as creative a string of profanity as I can muster...

    However, that would not do anything to persuade that person or anyone else, and would just reflect poorly on the 'Obama camp'... and so it goes...

    by Aethern on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 09:36:27 PM PDT

    •  You are very reasonable and clear...

      ... thanks for this diary... we had some fun in the Gregoire and Obey Join the Cult diary earlier, it felt good to laugh it off.

      by highacidity on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:14:06 PM PDT

      •  thanks! n/t

        by Aethern on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:15:58 PM PDT

    •  I know it's hard and I feel your pain ...

      ...at being called a name that reflects on your intelligence (not to mention your right to choose and right to critique). But, as I encouraged people to do last night, don't focus on the supporters of the other candidate when letting fly, concentrate on Obama backers who unfairly attack Clinton backers. We're not going to change behavior here if everybody keeps saying: "I'm being polite but the other side isn't and that pisses me off." Challenge your (our) fellow supporters of Obama when they misbehave. Please.

      by Meteor Blades on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:35:45 PM PDT

•  Police This

  Tell me why we don't police our own ranks better...

  Karl Rove couldn't have said it better, himself.  Folks don't like to be 'policed.' or tasered or maced, for that matter.  Oh, but look where all that policing got them - shattered into their pathetic parts:
  1)warheads
  2)religious zealots
  3)the rich
  I say let the passions flow freely.  Let's get MORE people fired up, then as LHM suggests, let's

  get on to kicking John McCain's ass.

  by greenfire on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:04:18 PM PDT

  •  seriously?

    it's called a figure of speech... it means to hold each other accountable as a group so we can make ourselves better..  sigh...

    by Aethern on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:05:58 PM PDT

    •  Go bang your head against the wall...

      ... don't worry, we'll wait ;-)

      by highacidity on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:15:25 PM PDT

      •  Smack....Smack.....Smack

        Whew! Wow, I feel a lot better, now!  Seriously.  Naw, I get the point.  I've been lurking around here for a few years w/ only a couple of diaries, but I absolutely LOVE it right now.  I love the chaos, pandemonium, and above all else, the PASSION!  To me, that's what's driving the Obama campaign right.  I think all the diarists who call for calm and unity are an important moderating voice, especially with this rabble, but I think we will behave when the general election rolls around.  I am concerned about the youth vote.  With an attention span of nanoseconds, an Obama loss could send everyone off to the next kegger, but I don't think so.  

        I think I'm going to do a diary on folks letting go of their gender and racial identities.  That should elicit some vitriol, but I think that's where we have to go to get on with the paradigm shift.  Police on!

        by greenfire on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 10:33:49 PM PDT