Daily Kos

Getting ready to Caucus in WA - Still making up my mind...

Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 08:27:35 AM PDT

So, today, I will head to Maywood Elementary school in Bothell, WA, and caucus for the next president.  Ever since I voted for John Anderson in the 1980 weekly reader poll when I was 6, I have been certain about who I support.  I was a state delegate for Dean in the 2004 Caucuses in Colorado, voted for "he who shall not be named on this site" as a third party candidate in 96 and 2000 (and 92 as a writein).  I supported Gore, then Richardson, then Edwards - and am left between two candidates.  So, which will it be?

My wife has already decided, as she is a psychotherapist who has spent her life advocating for family and children issues.  She cares about health care, and wants someone in there with real experience in that area.  And Obama's lofty speaches, high on passion but short on details, leave her desiring for more substance.  She feels like he's charming people into giving him a job that he's actually not ready for. She is definitely in the Clinton Camp.

I love my wife, but was initially repulsed at even the notion of Clinton being the Nominee - I do not like her inside the beltway connections, her lobbyist ties, her recently borrowed war-hawk persona - I felt that she is far too indentured to established and insular parties, and that would violate the core principles of participatory governance belied by my DKOS username.  And yet, she has a heart, and looking at her life is looking at a modern day Eleanor Roosevelt - someone who has devoted her life to understanding those less fortunate - a girl who left the comforts of suburban Chicago living and served the poor - left the ivory towers of Wellesley and Yale - and moved to upstate arkansas in a pro-bono legal clinic - travelled across the world after her noble and failed attempt at Universal Health Care and worked for human rights.  She is a model for women and girls everywhere for how to demand professional respect and be a conscious and loving mother (Ain't a darn thing wrong with Chelsea).

Barack is absolutely my speed.  He speaks up to power, and has spent his life passionately lifting up those who are victims of inequality and giving them the voice to change things.  He is John F Kennedy, and Cesar Chavez, and Delores Huerta, and Martin Luther King, and, most importantly, Saul Alinski.  Chicago has given us great gifts over the years, with the rugged, egalitarian history of progressive politics in a city that has redefined community organizing.  Barack Obama, aside from his eclectic upbringing, is one of those great gifts - and his rapid ascendency is a testament to how well he learned the rules of organazing for progressive change.  And yet imbued in this passion is an aristocratic grace, a princehood - and therein lies my jumping off point.

What sort of Prince will Obama be?  Machiavelli's famous treatise on the subject indicated that first and foremost the prince should be loved, and that there are times that the prince will be called on to do things, sometimes cruel things, to maintain the stability of power.  From Wikipedia,

The theories expressed in The Prince are often venerated as shrewd methods that an aspiring prince can use to acquire the throne, or an existing prince can use to establish his reign. According to Machiavelli, the greatest moral good is a virtuous and stable state, and actions, no matter how cruel, to protect the country are justified. It is vital that he do anything necessary to keep his power; however, Machiavelli strongly suggests that above all, the prince must not be hated. He does give a concise answer on whether or not a prince should be feared or loved. He states, "..a wise prince should establish himself on that which is his own control and not in that of others; he must endeavor to avoid hatred, as is noted." He also says "It is best to be both feared and loved; however, if one cannot be both it is better to be feared than loved."

I am not here suggesting that Obama is Machiavellian, but I am doing something equally taboo according to some on this site - I am suggesting that we should make absolutely sure that he is not.  We should withhold some of the premature hero-worshipping and annointing until we have more solid commitments from him regarding his true allegiance to the grassroots.  He LOOKS GREAT!  But whom will he serve.  If we keep throwing him money and power and inaugural balls without holding tightly onto the strings of democracy that are OUR responsibility to maintain and use to hold our leaders accountable, we may very well be recreating the despot (possibly even against his will, if those of you with some psychological background can get this) we say we want to rid ourself of.

After all of this, I am still uncommitted, but DESPERATELY want some excuse to vote for Obama - and that excuse will come when I see it.  And I'm still waiting to see it - perhaps your comments or some other message in the next 4 1/2 hours wil change my mind.

Poll

Who do you REALLY want for President

8%13 votes
67%108 votes
4%7 votes
1%2 votes
12%20 votes
0%0 votes
0%1 votes
1%3 votes
2%4 votes
0%1 votes

| 159 votes | Vote | Results

Tags: Washington State Primary, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Democracy (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 67 comments

    •  I serve man (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      madame defarge, oscarsmom

      (cue Twilight Zone music)

      But Barack Obama serves America.

    •  We never know for sure (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      abarefootboy, oscarsmom

      what someone will do once given a great amount of power.

      I believe Obama will continue to serve the people, as he has chosen to do throughout his adult life. The choices he has made are not the choices one makes if he/she is driven by power.

      And he has that badass-powerful wife to help keep him grounded :)

      I trust Barack Obama.

      by casperr on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 08:38:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Sorry I'm not writing more comments (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      zbctj52, gdwtch52

      I have a crying 1 year old and a needy three year old, so they're coming first right now.

    •  Great, well written diary, 4democracy. (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      4democracy, gdwtch52

      You, say you want, need a reason to vote for Obama, that in its self should tell you who to vote for.  It didn't seem that you had those reservation about Hillary, maybe because you already know so many of the lumps, bumps and warts and know that more will be found and you are okay with that.  But one thing you don't want, IMHO, is to find out all of the lumps, bumps and warts that may come out about Obama, there by taking away his mystery, and placing him back down here with the rest of us.  Obama has been put up on a pedestal where he doesn't belong, he is, after all, human.

      But I've learned such an important lesson, if Democrats don't run they can't win. Ellinorianne

      by zbctj52 on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 08:51:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Maybe you could tell us (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      4democracy

      what issues you would like to see at the forefront?

      I'd be willing to help with any documentation I can.

      And may I also suggest you take a look at kid oakland's series of Obama diaries, or Populista's?

      If you're trying to decide on issues, I can't think of 2 better dKos diarists to help you.

      We...join arm in arm and decide we are going to remake this country block by block, precinct by precinct, county by county, state by state - that's what hope is.

      by DemocraticOz on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:02:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Caucus for Edwards on 1st vote (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    4democracy, sarahlane, zbctj52, katz5

    and on 2nd, go with your 2nd choice.

    JRE CAN still pick up delegates.

    No matter whom you choose, I thank you for participating in chosing our nominee.

    •  just double check on that in your state. (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      4democracy

      In many states, once a candidate suspends or withdraws?
      Though their name is still on the ballot, and you can caucus or vote for them -
      they do not get any delegates.
      And it some other states they do.
      So you have to somehow ask your google.
      I could not find a list.
      Did not know what to put in the search.

      "Oh no...you changed your hair color? It's just so dark. You like it? And with your skin tone?" My Beloved Mom, December 25 2007, once again on notice.

      by Christin on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:49:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  My candidate & my reasons (5+ / 0-)

    I've had unwavering support for Obama from day 1.  And the more I hear & see him, the more convinced I am that he is exactly the right person for president in these times.  

    It's not about electing a woman or a black man.  It's about electing an inspirational leader for our country & our world.

    Both HRC & Obama are competent, intelligent, & can govern.  But, IMHO, only Obama can inspire.

    BTW, here's an interesting opinion article from the New Yorker you might want to peruse.

    "It's not just enough to change the players. We've gotta change the game." ~ Obama

    by madame defarge on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 08:34:13 AM PDT

    •  The whole meme that inspiration is everything (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      4democracy

      leaves me cold. I understand that inspiration is good if you want to rally the American people behind a cause, but IMO, it's definitely not what I would base my support on. Especially if your inspiring candidate hasn't really rallied the American people behind a cause. IMO, neither Hillary or Obama led any sort of coalition for big changes the past few years. Right now I support Senate candidate Jeff Merkley here in Oregon. He has proven to me that he will champion progressive causes. He'll stick up for his morals and mine even if it means pissing off his own supporters! Right now he's in the midst of a fight where he's sticking his neck out for the environment and pissing off some of his labor support.  I sure hope Obama or Hillary take after Merkley, and don't play it safe as POTUS.

      Netroots Director for Oregon Senate Candidate Jeff Merkley. Kossacks Donate to Merkley Here!

      by sarahlane on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 08:53:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Is there any question about Obama I can research (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    4democracy

    for you to help in your decision?

  •  First comment ever. Don't hurt me. :D (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    4democracy, ybruti

    This is just a random thought, but it seems to me the "realistic" point of view concerning health care is actually coming from Obama. If a president had the power to simply put into law what they saw fit, then Hillary has the better overall health care plan in my opinion. I truly believe Obama's plan would meet less opposition, and that alone, makes his plan more attainable. Building blocks, as I like to call them. Implement now what stands a chance of surviving the house and senate, and then push it further down the line.

    We like to think we're voting for a person, and their ideals and principles, but really... in addition to those things, we are voting for progress against a mentality that is the complete opposite of ours. Change comes in increments and compromise. I think Obama gets this. If Hillary wins the nomination, I hope she will get this, too.

    But vote with a combination of your head and heart. I think we all do! Good luck on deciding!

  •  Takes a solid majority to get things done. (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    4democracy

    And Obama will have longer coattails, I think, than Clinton.

    And I'm not the only one who thinks this: looks at all the red state congressmen and women (not to mention governors) who are supporting Obama. It's not as though Obama is cashing in old chits here, either.

    I also respect Senator Clinton, and I'm certainly susceptible to her argument that politics is politics and she'll give as good as she gets to get things done. But I fear she won't succeed, because even a small majority in congress won't be sufficient. And I think Obama has the chance to usher in some serious Democratic dominance-- and also to reach out more effectively to moderate Republicans on key issues, like health care and Iraq.

    Just my two cents. Good luck with your decision!

    •  Judgement (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      4democracy, ybruti

      I grew up in the 60's and remember the inspiration andthe positive feelings about JFK. He brought emphasized the positives in us and not fear and had a large impact on a whole generation of american's which last today.

      But the most important trait of JFK was judgement especially with the Cuban Missle crisis. Many at that time wanted Kennedy to bomb or invade Cuba but he resolved it peacefully with strength of the blockade. We found out later that those missles were armed and if we had taken militaryaction against Cuba we would have probably lost a city in the SE part of the US.

      By handling that crisis with sound judgement we are here today when it could have been otherwise with the advice of most others both political and military.

      My support is for Barack Obama DUE TO HIS SOUND JUDGEMENT IN OPPOSING THE IRAQ WAR AND HIS SPEECH OF WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF WE INVADED. THIS PROVED TO BE SO ACCURATE.

      •  My annoyance (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        jimrice, Christin, 4democracy

        with both Hillary and Obama is that neither formed a big coalition to end the war the past few years. They could have used their potential power as POTUS to rally members of Congress around exiting Iraq. I really didn't see much leadership on the issue from either of them. That said, I do trust Obama more on actually ending the war. His withdrawal plan has less holes than Hillary's plan.

        Netroots Director for Oregon Senate Candidate Jeff Merkley. Kossacks Donate to Merkley Here!

        by sarahlane on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 08:56:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  What happened to his SOUND JUDGMENT (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        4democracy

        when he got into the Senate and cosponsored S.970, toothless, but a validation of Cheney/Hadley's intel and warming the cockles of their artificial hearts thereby--not to mention his res being a completely off-base strawman when there actually ARE real issues  our foreign policy should be addressing like Pakistan and who is the real power in Iran and how we could benefit dealing with Rafsanjani instead of insulting the military branch of his country?  

        If foreign policy bores Obama so much that he can't bring himself to study it, why didn't the former constitutional law professor turn his sights to the myriad violations the Bush administration has raped our constitution with?  He might have looked brilliant while doing some actual good for the country.

        Please, God, don't let the Democratic party make me vote for some pinhead who believes in the GWOT. God grinned...

        by planetclaire4 on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:20:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And just to prove i'm an equal (0+ / 0-)

          opportunity Undecided, 4Democracy, if your wife's issues are children (future, I would imagine), ask her to take a look at this diary:

          http://www.dailykos.com/...

          Please, God, don't let the Democratic party make me vote for some pinhead who believes in the GWOT. God grinned...

          by planetclaire4 on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:27:18 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  wife has seen enough (0+ / 0-)

            This is 4Democracy's wife and I just wanted to let everyone know that my vote isn't to be swayed... my husband's was (before today's caucus). I've watched both parties speak and I've read both of their campaign issues and replies to relevant questions.
            There is one person hesitating my vote for a dem in November and that is the prospect of Rep. McKinney from the Green Party. She's an interesting alternative.
            Thanks for the interest though.

  •  Think about the swing states (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    ybruti, DiesIrae, pooh74

    Obama or Clinton will win Washington.  Think about those of us in places like Virginia or Missouri (my state).

    Clinton will unify the Republicans in Missouri and make it much harder for her to win.  Obama will not unify the Republicans and new voters he brings in will make our task easier.  We have a governorship to win and the task of flipping the State House.

    If you care about the state of the party elsewhere in the country, vote for Obama.

    Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren. Bertolt Brecht

    by MoDem on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 08:40:27 AM PDT

    •  I just talked to a friend who has family in VA (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      MoDem, pooh74

      She said that they are all voting for Obama. They are Republicans.

      I trust Barack Obama.

      by casperr on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 08:41:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Obama outperforms in polls (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        pooh74

        With McCain the expected GOP nominee, watch more Republicans and Indepedents coming over in open primaries to vote for Obama.

        Obama has almost always outperformed in the polls.  

        Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren. Bertolt Brecht

        by MoDem on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 08:47:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  If I ever wavered on who to vote for? (0+ / 0-)

      (which I don't...but if I did?)
      I would simply watch and listen to the joy.
      Glee. Anticipation. And happiness of the GOP, CPAC, and all the other nut job right wingers who VOTE...
      When they talk about how they want HRC for a candidate.
      They're salivating.
      They are donating to her campaign.
      I think Bay Buchanan said (on CNN yesterday ) that HRC on the ballot will guarantee huge gop turnout.
      All the panelists concurred.
      And then they should the CPAC convention, or whatever that bullshit was from the other day where they were all praying for  HRC win knowing what it would do to the base.
      Obama? Not so much.
      On Faux news they keep worrying about an BO win.
      Saying that going after the candidate of Hope who wants to unite the Red and Blues...
      Who has about ten pounds of baggage compared to HRC's...
      Would make it very hard on the GOP to get people to vote against him.
      That is causes me huge amounts of stomach acids.
      I know this is not a positive reason to vote for Obama.
      But I think you've read enough. Heard enough.
      And researched enough on your own to decide at this point.
      A stray post here or there will not give you the light  bulb you're waiting for.

      "Oh no...you changed your hair color? It's just so dark. You like it? And with your skin tone?" My Beloved Mom, December 25 2007, once again on notice.

      by Christin on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:56:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It may be too late now (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Christin

    but my suggestion would be to attend an Obama event and experience the passion and collective will for change.

    Obama has aptly said to his supporters,
    "It's not about me, it's about you."

    I may be voting for one man, but my heart is voting for a sweeping transformative movement.  

    In a democracy, the most important office is the office of citizen.- Louis Brandeis

    by crystal eyes on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 08:41:05 AM PDT

    •  No offense.. (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      4democracy, badger

      but the Obama event I went to was based around Obama, and not us. I think it's the campaign machine that's made it about Obama, and not about what major changes this country needs. Luckily, the campaign will be over soon enough and we'll get to talking about proposed solutions to our problems.

      Netroots Director for Oregon Senate Candidate Jeff Merkley. Kossacks Donate to Merkley Here!

      by sarahlane on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 08:59:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  no offense (0+ / 0-)

        but if you don't intuitively get it
        I can't explain it to you.

        My Obama support is a radical paradigm shift that changes the lens in which I view politics as usual.

        All I can say is keep watching and be open to profound change.

        In a democracy, the most important office is the office of citizen.- Louis Brandeis

        by crystal eyes on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:07:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  No...I don't get it... (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          4democracy, badger, crystal eyes

          Now, if Obama had been proposing legislation these past few years to radically change our country...then yeah...I would get it. I want change...I really do...and I sure hope you're right that Obama will deliver that massive change this country needs. BTW, I am open to profound change. Sheesh....I supported the candidate who had the most progressive proposals on the table. I supported the candidate who wanted to seriously take on big corp. I wanted the corp. influence out of our govt. So, believe me, I am open to change.

          Netroots Director for Oregon Senate Candidate Jeff Merkley. Kossacks Donate to Merkley Here!

          by sarahlane on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:14:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  We are in an rapidly evolving landscape (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            4democracy

            in which the specifics of the change each candidate brings will only become clear over time.

            We share the hunger for change, but real change starts from within. The best way to bring about a national transformation is to realize it on a personal level.

            If supporting Hillary brings you to make a passionate personal commitment to daily action to uplift and heal the nation.. then more power to you.

            In a democracy, the most important office is the office of citizen.- Louis Brandeis

            by crystal eyes on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:30:39 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  What? (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              crystal eyes

              I don't support Hillary. I volunteered for the Edwards Campaign for five years. I advocated for him tirelessly because I believed he could radically change people's lives who live in poverty.

              Netroots Director for Oregon Senate Candidate Jeff Merkley. Kossacks Donate to Merkley Here!

              by sarahlane on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:28:55 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  oops.. I meant to say, "Even if" (0+ / 0-)

                Even if you do end up supporting Hillary..if supporting her really stokes a fire within you to action for change outside blind political loyalty... then we are partners.

                In a democracy, the most important office is the office of citizen.- Louis Brandeis

                by crystal eyes on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:37:22 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Why aren't we partners now? (0+ / 0-)

                  If I have been advocating on behalf of Edwards and other candidates like Merkley, who fight for the causes I believe in...how does that translate into me not being active for change? Just because I am skeptical of Obama and Hillary does not mean I'm some blind loyalist who doesn't work for change.

                  Netroots Director for Oregon Senate Candidate Jeff Merkley. Kossacks Donate to Merkley Here!

                  by sarahlane on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:42:37 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  there is a kinship for all of us who (1+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:
                    sarahlane

                    are active for reform and hold the the candidates we support accountable.

                    Our work is not done just getting our candidate elected.  We still need to keep his/her feet to the fire.

                    In a democracy, the most important office is the office of citizen.- Louis Brandeis

                    by crystal eyes on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 03:38:36 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

          •  Putting open (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            4democracy

            Health Care negotiations on Cspan is a huge transformative action.  Broadband for everyBODY is a huge deal.  Anti-monopolistic policy towards the public airwaves too.  BHO is for all of these.

            Barack makes a big deal about rolling back the Bush actions that have infringed upon the Constitution.  Clinton is very hawkish on a lot of these issues.

            To me its a no-brainer.

            Plus his HC is better because it is actually realistic to impliment and not just empty rhetoric.

            They are both very similar in a lot of ways, so you can't go terribly wrong. I respect you decision either way.

  •  I don't understand the question (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    CA Pol Junkie, Christin, casperr

    If you look at Obama's background, he was a community organizer after graduating college.  Instead of going after big bucks (which he could have done after being President of the Harvard Law Review), he went to a respected civil rights law firm in Chicago.  He and his wife only became financially well-off after he wrote his best-selling books.  

    His entire campaign is built on the concept of turning out new voters and empowering them to take an active part in our political process.  He employs a 50-state strategy.  

    How much more grass-roots cred do you need?  

  •  4D (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    4democracy, zbctj52

    Fwiw you don't need an excuse. Go with your gut. IF your gut tells you to vote BHO, do so. No one can give you any other reason that will resonate internally. You seem like a smart guy whose brain is working overtime. Just do what seems right. I think the policy positions between the 2 remaining candidates are trivial.
    That said, if you for some reason are not comfortable voting for Obama, then vote for who your first choice was if he's on the ballot, or write him/her in if not.
    My primary was past tuesday and I voted for JRE. If it were today, I am not sure what I would do.
    Peace and good luck

    "The truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing." The Tao Te Ching

    by hester on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 08:41:37 AM PDT

  •  Being Ready is Important but.... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    jimrice

    Equally important is to have people who are ready to work with you.

    I like Hillary Clinton, she is my senator and I voted for her twice, but I did not vote for her on Super Tuesday.

    I have deep concerns about the ability of Congress to work with Hillary. Sure Democrats have control, but as we've seen this past year, the minority can effectively obstruct. I fear that as president Hillary would give the Republicans that much more energy and enthusiasm to obstruct and stymie. Her competency will be no match for their obstinacy.

  •  I will caucus for Obama for the simple reason (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    democrattotheend

    that I may not get another opportunity in my lifetime to support such a candidate. Candidates like Obama don't seem to come 'round very often and I'll not miss my chance to support this mandate for change.

  •  My mother is going as an uncommitted (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    4democracy, zbctj52

    She's hoping that since her preferred candidate (Edwards) has suspended his campaign, she can gain viability for uncommitted. She is like me...undecided between both Hillary and Obama.

    Netroots Director for Oregon Senate Candidate Jeff Merkley. Kossacks Donate to Merkley Here!

    by sarahlane on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 08:45:52 AM PDT

  •  Here's an article about why he could win VA (0+ / 0-)

    if that's a good enough excuse: http://online.wsj.com/...

    I read a few great articles yesterday detailing some of the bills he worked on in the state senate and the US Senate...let me see if I can find it.

  •  Barack has ALREADY profoundly changed (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Christin

    the country.

    In my area, there are hundreds of people working for him who I know personally have been negative and cynical about this country.  People who have been frustrated with Democrats for decades.  Republicans who are fed up with both parties.

    Hillary has more enthusiasm this time, but polls indicate that her increased support has more to do with latent Democratic racism, and to a slightly lesser extent, pro-female voting, than with any real qualities of leadership.  She's been in DC for decades and corporations have only increased their dominion over our political process in that time.  

    Obama has accomplish far more legislatively than HIllary has.  His authored bills have a lot more to do with promoting the worker and progressive agendas than Hillary's.

    Hillary is trying to ride Obama's wave.  

    "We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America." Barack Obama

    by keeplaughing on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 08:48:27 AM PDT

    •  Obama election will change nothing. (0+ / 0-)

      You will get incremental, but not earth shaking change.  Our system is set up to blunt that. Kennedy was a mythological hero But it was Johnson, backslapping, cajoling, threatening, intimidating and scheming that got Kennedy's agenda through congress.

      "Accepting the inevitable"

      by waztec on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 08:52:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, I'm a Hopemonger (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Christin

        Woo hoo!

      •  Two honest questions. (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        4democracy
        1. What kind of majorities did LBJ have during his presidency? I think that's important to getting things done, and my sense is that Democrats have less of Congress than they did then-- though I'm not sure, and can't seem to find the numbers.
        1. As respected and admired as Hillary is in the Senate, do we have any evidence that she's a legislative operator on the order of LBJ? She's gotten some good stuff done for her constituents, and other Senators speak very highly of her work ethic and cooperation, but I haven't seen any reports that she's maneuvered key legislation through congress. (Again, this is partly a function of having a serious majority; as I state above, I think Obama can help swing more seats our way.)
        •  LBJ had all he needed: (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          4democracy

          88th Congress: 1963-65
             Senate

             * Republican (R): 37
             * Democratic (D): 63 (majority)

          TOTAL members: 100

             House of Representatives

             * Republican (R): 176
             * Democratic (D): 259 (majority)

          TOTAL members: 435
          89th Congress: 1965-67
          Senate
             * Democratic: 68 (majority)
             * Republican: 32
          TOTAL members: 100
          House of Representatives

             * Democratic: 295 (majority)
             * Republican: 140
          TOTAL members: 435

          90th Congress (67-69)
          Senate

             * Democratic: 64 (majority)
             * Republican: 36

          TOTAL members: 100

          [edit] House of Representatives

             * Democratic: 247 (majority)
             * Republican: 187
             * Vacant: 1 [1]

          TOTAL members: 435

          "Life is a tragedy for those who feel, a comedy for those who think" - Jean de la Bruyere

          by Tinuviel on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:08:10 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  You know... (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Christin, 4democracy

        in IL Obama did propose some pretty radical legislation. It's what earned my respect for him. Since he's been in Congress it's been half measures...and pretty weak legislation. However, we have to take into account that he was dealing with a Repub Congress and he may not have thought he could push anything bold through. So...he went with what he thought he could pass. This election kind sucks for me. My candidate has suspended his campaign, and I'm left with Hillary and Obama. On one hand, I think Hillary has stronger proposals on the table and I have a feeling will actually push bolder legislation while in office. Otoh, I think Obama is more electable. Argh.

        Netroots Director for Oregon Senate Candidate Jeff Merkley. Kossacks Donate to Merkley Here!

        by sarahlane on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:09:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •   ohhhh sara.... (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          sarahlane

          life was so much easier when JRE was still in.
          I always loved your diaries. And your comments.
          And feeling your hope and joy and excitement through everything you wrote.
          Now I'm feeling the anxiety, the confusion, some resignation, some worry...trying to do the right thing.

          sigh.

          "Oh no...you changed your hair color? It's just so dark. You like it? And with your skin tone?" My Beloved Mom, December 25 2007, once again on notice.

          by Christin on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:01:28 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  My problem is (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        4democracy

        that I really think that if HRC is elected,she will face a tougher congress than Obama. The GOP will be energized to run hard against her in November..more GOP will be elected , and they will have an attitude coming into the new congress. They will want to prove to their base that they will fight the disliked HRC ...and we are back to an inch by inch fight for progress.

        Obama would come in with less anger toward him from the git-go and would have a better chance to get healthcare,Iraq dealt with quicker.
        He is a problem solver with common sense solutions.
        As we saw in 1993 with HRC, she dug in her heels, ignored congress, and sabotaged the big chance for the clintons to make a huge mark with healthcare. I do not think she should get another bite at that apple after messing it up that bad.

    •  What? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Christin

      You think Hillary's got more enthusiasm because some voters are racist and won't support Obama? So, do you think that the reason Obama has enthusiasm is because some of his voters are sexist and won't vote for a woman? I actually think there is more excitement around Obama's campaign. I also think that the people who choose Hillary is because she is a very bright and competent legislator. When looking at both Hillary/Obama's legislative record the past few years, you can't discount Hillary's work for veterans/education/health care issues.

      BTW, what progressive legislation did Obama author for workers?

      Netroots Director for Oregon Senate Candidate Jeff Merkley. Kossacks Donate to Merkley Here!

      by sarahlane on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:05:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  If you don't vote Obama, 10 years from now.... (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    jimrice, ivorybill, wonderama

    you'll claim you did.

  •  I too am caucusing today (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    4democracy

    In Kingston WA.  I don't expect to find a lot of other Obama supporters.  Doesn't matter. I have armed myself with facts and committed myself to civility.
    Though underrated, the ability to communicate is important.  Call it anything you want, it is important.  Ideas have to be communicated.

    He has in his short tenure in the US Senate co sponsored important legislation in the Ethics Reform Bill. There are others but this one is important for all of us.

    He has shown his ability to withstand attacks from a large machine (Clintons) and to back Bill off was nothing short of genius.

    He speaks of 'we' and places the good of our country on the shoulders of us.  This is an important distinction.

    He has demonstrated his wisdom and ability to analyze accurately with his prescient observations about what a war in Iraq would mean.

    His health plan acknowledges that Americans who do not have health care are not being truculent, rather they don't have it because they can't afford it.  No garnishments or mandates changes the arithmetic of it costs too much.

    He speaks to the next generation of those who hold the political future in their hands and energizes even old folks like me.

    Good luck with your choice today.  I do know who I'll be caucusing for.  Barack Obama.

    The best way to predict the future is to invent it. Alan Kay

    by Robinswing on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:12:33 AM PDT

  •  Clinton Has A Poor Record In The Senate (0+ / 0-)

    Why not consider Hillary's legislative record?

    Here's Hillary's body of work as a US Senator. It suggests that either she's lazy or was afraid to commit to significant legislation.

    Senator Clinton, who has served only one full term (6yrs.), and another year campaigning, has managed to author and pass into law, (20) twenty pieces of legislation in her first six years.These bills can be found on the website of the Library of Congress (www.thomas.loc.gov), but to save you trouble, I'll post them here for you.

    1. Establish the Kate Mullany National Historic Site.
    1. Support the goals and ideals of Better Hearing and Speech Month.
    1. Recognize the Ellis Island Medal of Honor.
    1. Name courthouse after Thurgood Marshall.
    1. Name courthouse after James L. Watson.
    1. Name post office after Jonn A. O'Shea.
    1. Designate Aug. 7, 2003, as National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
    1. Support the goals and ideals of National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
    1. Honor the life and legacy of Alexander Hamilton on the bicentennial of his death.
    1. Congratulate the Syracuse Univ. Orange Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.
    1. Congratulate the Le Moyne College Dolphins Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.
    1. Establish the 225th Anniversary of the American Revolution Commemorative Program.
    1. Name post office after Sergeant Riayan A. Tejeda.
    1. Honor Shirley Chisholm for her service to the nation and express condolences on her death.
    1. Honor John J. Downing, Brian Fahey, and Harry Ford, firefighters who lost their lives on duty. Only five of Clinton's bills are, more substantive.
    1. Extend period of unemployment assistance to victims of 9/11.
    1. Pay for city projects in response to 9/11
    1. Assist landmine victims in other countries.
    1. Assist family caregivers in accessing affordable respite care.
    1. Designate part of the National Forest System in Puerto Rico as protected in the wilderness preservation system.

    On her votes, Hillary voted FOR the Iraq war, FOR the bankruptcy bill that's devastated so many middle-class families, FOR the "let's use cluster bombs on civilians" bill, for NAFTA/CAFTA job exportation, and FOR the Kyl-Lieberman amendment that gives Bush the green light to attack Iran.

    Hillary's record clearly shows she's not a progressive.  If you think the status quo in Washington is what we need, Hillary should get your vote.

    "I've been an oilman all my life, but this is one crisis we can't drill our way out of" --T. Boone Pickens

    by bincbom on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:13:22 AM PDT

  •  Obama In Just A Few Words (0+ / 0-)

    "It's just not enough to change the players.  We've gotta change the game" (in Washington)

    -Barack Obama

    "I've been an oilman all my life, but this is one crisis we can't drill our way out of" --T. Boone Pickens

    by bincbom on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:18:01 AM PDT

  •  Like your wife, I too am a therapist whose career (5+ / 0-)

    is dedicated to advocacy for children and families. The way my life has gone, I have spent most of my time working with poor and disadvantaged people, the Front Lines I like to call it. And I've spent close to 30 years on the Front Lines now, stoping only for Grad School in the mid '80's.
      There's one thing I can tell you for certain, is that John Edwards was right on the money about there being 2 Americas, and about our Government, our "System" being broken. If anything, Edwards assessment is really an understatement. I could tell you people's stories that would make you cry, or make you seethe with anger at what goes on here in America. It often does those things to me, and I am a professional, and by definition, not supposed to be emotional about things I encounter.
       And I can tell you this about Obama. He's real. And I know real from fake like I know my own name. Obama has been a part of the things I've been a part of, and  he has chosen to take whatever action he can to fix the travesties that have befallen our Nation.
      He's no prince, he's a soldier, just like I am, but he's a great soldier. He's one with the ability to lead as well. and he's no prince, that's for damn sure. He's got self-doubt and flaws just like the rest of us grey elephants (ordinary folk), but he's also been blessed with some outstanding skills, which he aims to put to use in service of helping those who need help, in service of making our system work as it's meant to work (for the people), and of  bringing reason and practicality to the National debate, where now there is anger and bullshit.
       What I'm telling you, I know from my heart, and that's the best I can do.
        But as a therapist I can tell you something else: You already know the answer to the question you pose. You don't even really need to think on it anymore. Just go out there and Caucus and you'll get it right. And may Peace be with you.

    "We the People of the United States..." -U.S.Constitution

    by elwior on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:22:12 AM PDT

      •  Advice from another social services type (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Christin, Robinswing

        My choice is based on some specific issues in which Obama is more to my liking than HRC. I would support him even if I weren't a Chicago liberal.

        But there's something else there, and it's not just hero worship. I actually teared up a little when he said on Super Tuesday "we are the change we have been waiting for".  Lord knows we've been waiting.  I've spent the whole of the Bush years working with a non-profit, involved in immigrant and refugee issues here and abroad. For the last seven years it's been all about fighting a rear-guard action.  We've been playing defense.  So many of us have felt isolated, working in our separate areas, wondering what the hell is happening to our country.

        I don't want to be told that a candidate will do something for me, or that we can return to the 90's.  Although I genuinely like HRC, I don't want to hear that the only one who can clean up after a Bush is a Clinton.  

        I want to hear that we are in this together. I want to hear that change is us, and that we are on the move - and we're not playing defense anymore.  I know it is emotional and irrational, but I've wanted to hear that for the last seven years. This is what some of us hear from Obama, and it is finding a receptive audience. With me at least.

        God, who gave man scabies, also gave him hands to scratch them.

        by ivorybill on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:46:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Thank you, young Papa! (0+ / 0-)

        (I noticed that you had to go tend to the kids before)
        Thanks for the compliment, and for this interesting thread.
          Now get out there and Caucus like you've never caucused before!

        "We the People of the United States..." -U.S.Constitution

        by elwior on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:59:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Something that struck me very powerfully (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Christin, ivorybill

    yesterday at the rally was that a guiding philosophy behind Obama's policies is this:  empowering people to improve their own lives and to improve their community/country.  He wants to give people the tools to do it, but in the end, he trusts people to make their own decisions.  

    A good example is the health care issue.  He wants there to be universal ACCESS to health care, but not mandates that don't trust people to act in their own best interests.  Of course an essential part of that is making health insurance available and affordable--that's where government steps in.

    But he is going to call on all of us to contribute to making our country great again.  In the end it is up to us and he never hesitates to point that out.

    Never give up! Never surrender!

    by oscarsmom on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:29:06 AM PDT

    •  P.S. (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      4democracy

      Please note that this attitude is very different from the Republican "every man for himself" attitude.  It believes in government as providing everyone with a chance to live a good life, while not being an overseer or "nanny" state.

      Slinkerwink's diary was another great example.  His plan to help people with disabilities focuses on giving them access to tools--education, etc.--with which they can live as good a life as possible, if they choose to do so.

      Never give up! Never surrender!

      by oscarsmom on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:32:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You know, the more I read from oscar's parents, (0+ / 0-)

      The more I have to think that Oscar must be one helluva kid!

      "We the People of the United States..." -U.S.Constitution

      by elwior on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:01:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Obama is a vote 4 a country we WANT to live in (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Christin

    hillary is a vote for the country we are.

    ..to be healed/the broken thing must come apart/then be rejoined.

    by Zacapoet on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:48:23 AM PDT

  •  Edwards to Obama (0+ / 0-)

    Because in the final analysis:

    Clinton & Obama are both good guys and their views on most issues are synchronous...

    And although Clinton is a trooper and has been a pretty good Senator for NY...I view her as just that... a trooper...one of the troops; a good mechanic....    

    But because America desperately needs a leader and a healer, after Bush&Co has split us so crudely and cruelly apart with emotion packed, non governmental issues...

    I must opt for Obama...because I think, with all other things being fairly equal, he is more of a leader... or a master mechanic,if you will.   I have no doubt that he will do the better job of leading us and uniting us.   That is his unique talent... above and beyond his intelligence and knowledge.  

  •  I am going (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    4democracy

    to caucus here on the eastside in Ellensburg at the High School.  First time I have involved myself since 1972 when I went door to door in my little Wisconsin home town...and wasn't old enough to vote.  I don't know if I'm being fooled by Obama or if he is fooling himself.  Can anyone change Washington when big money has control?  What will our new President do with such a weak kneed Congress?  Will Republicans  immediately start calling for investigations?  Are they going to investigate the Obama's Christmas card list? Can anyone clean up this mess without cutting Defense (soft on terror) and raising taxes?  The two things that will allow a Republican resurgence in 2010.
    I am just so angry with what has happened to our so called Democracy over the last 25 years, and it has become so blatant under the current Administration. I am angry and disgusted and feel so helpless...will it really matter who I vote for?  
    Sorry, I sound like a real downer, guess I better go take a walk.

    "Life is a tragedy for those who feel, a comedy for those who think" - Jean de la Bruyere

    by Tinuviel on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:58:58 AM PDT

    •  I feel your pain Tinuviel... (0+ / 0-)

      I alternate between despair, hope, disgust, approval, joy, sadness, apathy, excitement, fear, oh hell yes we can make a change, what does it matter, Oh hell yes it matters...
      Every day.
      In the end...I'm going with the HopeMonger.
      Because when you take hope away, even if it's only a tiny sliver, you have nothing.
      Kinda like the sadness in your post. :-(

      "Oh no...you changed your hair color? It's just so dark. You like it? And with your skin tone?" My Beloved Mom, December 25 2007, once again on notice.

      by Christin on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:05:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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