Daily Kos

SNL - Humorless Kossacks not getting the joke

Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 09:45:03 PM PDT

Six diaries in the last 24 hours about SNL last night, each one complaining that the opening sketch was unfair to Obama. The sketch is embedded in this link. Please watch it, as this discussion deals substantially with this sketch.

Okay, people, the first words of the sketch -- the VERY FIRST WORDS OF THE SKETCH -- are as follows -- "I'm Hillary Clinton, and I approve this unfair and deceptive message."

We are 11 words into a five-minute sketch, and it is abundantly clear to me and any other English-speaking individual that we are about to watch a satire of Hillary's campaign tactics. Any other interpretation suggests that the listener is as humorless and defensive as the stereotypical lefty is thought to be.

COME ON, PEOPLE!!! Unclench your sphincters for a second! The sketch was a transparent satire on Hillary's specious argument that Barack is a naive waif clearly out of his depth. WAKE THE HELL UP!!!!!!!!

Now of course, it is an entirely subjective argument as to whether or not the sketch in question is actually funny. If you didn't find a sketch funny, no amount of argument I make will convince you that it was amusing. That's fine. But it is sheer nonsense to state that this sketch proves that SNL is in the tank for Hillary.

Of course, complaints of SNL's bias stem from sketches that appeared in the last two weeks written by Jim Downey, who has been with SNL for all but a few of the years it's been on the air, and who has achieved an almost legendary reputation for his political sketch writing. While it's hard to identify who writes what on SNL, clearly the show is not generally known for its right-wing bias. Downey, who has long acknowledged his conservative bent, has delivered satirical blows to both sides of the aisle with seeming fairness. I have been watching the show consistently since it premiered in 1975, and I have been a liberal all that time, and I cannot recall any material that seemed to blatantly have a pro-conservative or anti-liberal bias.  Indeed, when Al Franken was writing for the show, any discernible bias on the show was clearly pro-liberal.

The opening sketches in the last two weeks -- what they call "cold opens" -- were parodies of the last two televised Democratic debates, and the basic point of the sketches was that the media was in the tank for Obama. Now I am definitely pro-Obama -- I volunteered for him when I was in Ohio last week -- but while I don't think that any such bias was reflected in the debates, I would have to admit that the media had been, at least until recently, much easier on Obama than on Clinton. You may argue the reasons why, but it is pretty undeniable that it is the case.

On top of these sketches, Tina Fey delivered a blatantly pro-Hillary monologue during Weekend Update when she hosted the show two weeks ago.  Again, it's hard to know who wrote what, but I am assuming that she wrote that monologue herself and that it reflects her personal opinions. But it seemed to give the impression that SNL was taking an official position in favor of Hillary.

This all set the scene for last night's show, which I think attracted some pro-Obama viewers, many of whom seem to post on the Daily Kos, looking for any hints that Obama was being slammed. And this sketch, in which Hillary is dramatizing Obama as being hopelessly and cartoonishly over his head as president, acting in a way that no one can really imagine him being, was the red meat they needed, and they jumped on it.

In a way, the weak and ignorant characterization of Obama -- a complete reversal of everything we know of him -- is similar to the classic 1986 sketch Masterbrain, in which Ronald Reagan was depicted as a brilliant mastermind who had the sole and total control and knowledge of all the complex maneuvering in his administration (I'd bet a nickel Downey wrote this sketch, too). In other words, the "Obama as Idiot" portrayal is funny precisely because we know it's not true. So lighten up, Francis.

Another example of the absurdity of the Obama characterization in this sketch -- Al Sharpton is referred to in the sketch as Obama's Secretary of State. Clearly Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are nowhere to be seen in Obama's campaign, and some of the scuzziest politics seen in this election have been the attempts to link Sharpton and Jackson to Obama. In fact, last week on SNL, in a very funny TV Funhouse segment -- probably the most consistently funny segment on SNL over the last 15 years -- was a cartoon of Obama sending Jackson and Sharpton, very eager to campaign for Obama, on bogus missions to non-existent countries to keep them away from his campaign.

While I have the floor, I'll discuss Fred Armisen's performance as Barack Obama. I doubt his will be the definitive impression of Barack Obama, but I don't think he does a bad job. While it's easy to say this as a White guy, I do not believe there is a "minstrel show" quality to his performance. Darrell Hammond does his brilliant impression of Jesse Jackson in blackface, and Maya Rudolph, who is multi-racial, has played both Black and White characters. Years ago, Eddie Murphy performed in whiteface in another brilliant sketch. Clearly Armisen has shown his skill in playing a broad range of ethnic roles, and he acquits himself nicely as Obama. There is nothing exploitative or stereotyped in his performance, and I think he deserves credit.

Of course, a couple years ago, SNL had a Black cast member that could probably play Obama very easily. His name was Finesse Mitchell. He's tall and skinny and was pretty much a perfect fit for the role. I don't know on what terms he left the show -- he was let go during a salary slashing phase -- but I wouldn't be too very surprised to see him rejoin the cast if Obama is elected president. Or maybe a new comic will come on the scene who has Obama down to a T. Darrell Hammond can't play everyone.

Tags: SNL, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Fred Armisen, Jim Downey (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 201 comments

  •  tip jar - And for the record... (24+ / 0-)

    ... the talent on SNL right now is as about as deep as it has been at any time in its history.

    I cried when I had no shoes... until I met a man who had no feet. And I said, "Hey, can I have your shoes?"

    by TheWurx on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 09:44:04 PM PDT

    •  i just watched it (5+ / 0-)

      and i have to agree...unlike the previous two weeks, it was a parody of the fear tactics and hillary's "win at any costs" methods. rec'd and tipped.

    •  OT perhaps, but regarding the deep talent: (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      ptmflbcs, Hannibal, trashablanca

      SNL is only as good as its writers, and, with apologies, I think they had better writers very early on. The best ones invariably leave. Other good ones come in, and they, too, leave. As for the cast of the moment, they are fine, but do not compare to much earlier members. Gilda Radner, anyone?

      There was a point where SNL was a do-not-miss. Whether it has just been around too long, or there is too much competition with all the cable shows, SNL is a shadow of its earlier self.

      Agree with you otherwise.

      Not a Cent to those who won't fight torture.

      by not a cent on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:18:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Cloudland Revisited (3+ / 0-)

        This is what SJ Perelman called a series of books that he loved as a boy, but read later to realize they were tripe.

        If you watch the full 90 minute episodes of the show in the early days -- I mean the Chase/Belushi/Aykroyd heyday -- you would find that there was almost never a funny sketch on after Weekend Update.  We remember the Golden Days as if it were unparalleled brilliance, but there were a LOT of bad sketches then.  The high points were groundbreaking television, but the low points were filler at best.

        I cried when I had no shoes... until I met a man who had no feet. And I said, "Hey, can I have your shoes?"

        by TheWurx on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:24:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't think they have ever had a show (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          wader, trashablanca, erin r

          that was funny throughout. But earlier years seemed to have certain skits where you laughed to the point of tears. And it was a bit edgier, I think, although it never has pushed the envelope.

          MadTV, on the other hand, was consistently funny for awhile, and did things that you could not believe they got away with.

          These days, seems the best is The Daily Show and Colbert. I will challenge you to watch them on JetBlue, and not disrupt your fellow cattle, I mean passengers.

          Not a Cent to those who won't fight torture.

          by not a cent on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:31:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I miss "In Living Color" (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            not a cent

            I have a feeling they'd do an awesome skewering of today's political scene. And I'd love to see Jim Carrey's Hillary.

            My heart belongs to Kucinich...

            by Wit Whither Wilt on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:37:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I find MadTV horrible (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            AndrewOG

            The typical sketch is a wacky character who behaves in a manner no human being on earth has ever behaved, and 12 straight men.

            I do agree about TDS and CR.  I record them every night.  They are going through a Golden Age -- this is TV satire at its best.

            I cried when I had no shoes... until I met a man who had no feet. And I said, "Hey, can I have your shoes?"

            by TheWurx on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:53:48 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  MadTV now is awful (0+ / 0-)

              but it really was very irreverant early on. And, NO, that is not rose colored glasses, and if you say that one more time I am going to praise the Debby Downer skits from SNL, which I thought were only minimally funny, but reality based.

              Not a Cent to those who won't fight torture.

              by not a cent on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:58:38 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  tipped for the diary, but really, (6+ / 0-)

      depth of talent? it's been the amy poehler show for the past 3 years. there may be tons of talent there, but it's been woefully underutilized.

      Anyone who advocates, supports, defends, rationalizes, or excuses torture has pus for brains and a case of scurvy for a conscience. - James Wolcott

      by rasbobbo on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:18:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree that Poehler is overused... (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        rasbobbo, trashablanca

        But I think Armisen has been hugely underrated.  I think Kristen Wiig is tremendous.  Bill Hader is excellent.  Darrell Hammond does what he does better than anyone.  Maya Rudolph was a big loss -- she has not returned from the writer's strike.  Will Forte doesn't have huge range, and I can see him not being everyone's taste, but I think the stuff he does is terrifically funny.

        The show is not as deep as it has been in recent years.  They need an infusion of talent.  But yes, I believe the talent is strong on the show.

        I cried when I had no shoes... until I met a man who had no feet. And I said, "Hey, can I have your shoes?"

        by TheWurx on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:27:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  No, it's not deep... (0+ / 0-)

      You mean in a universe of black comedians, they only have Keenan Thompson? They have a non-black actor playing the man who may well be the first black president?

      Forget the political sketches for a moment. Look at the rest of the show. It's awful. The talent level at SNL has been subpar for years. Yeah, you have your random gems - Tina Fey was excellent and Amy Poehler is a veteran of sketch comedy long before SNL. But that's nothing new, either. Darrel Hammond and Will Ferrell were the only thing right with SNL during the Bush/Gore election. There hasn't been a breakout character or sketch from SNL in a decade, and beyond that the only thing worthwhile on SNL is the cartoon and film shorts.

  •  It's not that we don't get the joke (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Trix, tuder, Fawkes, evdebs

    It's just the fact that SNL has sucked royally for at least the past six years.  There's no one of a Will Ferrell or even Jimmy Fallon caliber on the cast.

    And they can't even find the proper black guy to portray Obama so they go with the "Jewish dude embellished with facial prosthetics" option.

    Et tu, Lorne?  Et tu!

  •  They Sambo'ed him. It was unfair (7+ / 0-)

    They are helping the Clintons push their narrative that he is young, immature and inexperienced. If they can get enough people to believe that, then they can justify ordering him to give them the nomination, metaphorically ordering him to the back of the bus

    Barack Obama's smile can regrow hair - even for Karl Rove.

    by LoLoLaLa on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 09:48:06 PM PDT

    •  I very much resent the "Sambo" implication (0+ / 0-)

      If he was played like Stepin Fetchit, you have a point.  But Armisen's performance is as studied and faithful as any other impression on that show.  I think it's racist to suggest that a White man cannot portray a Black man in good faith.

      I cried when I had no shoes... until I met a man who had no feet. And I said, "Hey, can I have your shoes?"

      by TheWurx on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 09:52:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's not the portrayal, Fred is their best actor (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Christin, erin r, Fawkes

        Not mad at Fred at all.

        It's the fact they have a Harvard educated man acting like a bumbling bafoon

        Barack Obama's smile can regrow hair - even for Karl Rove.

        by LoLoLaLa on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:04:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I didn't know that SNL was required (0+ / 0-)

          to present caricatures of caricatures (that is, their parody of Clinton's framing of Obama) with a certain level of dignity.  Especially since the target is Clinton.

          Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

          by pico on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:06:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  If they wanted to do a skit about Clinton framing (3+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            Night Runner, geejay, erin r

            ...Obama, it would've been funny if in the Clinton "dramatization" they used someone to play Obama who obviously wasn't, like Darrel Hammond (aka Bill Clinton) playing Obama, then it would've been funny and would've been easier to see that it was a skit about Clinton's pettiness

            Barack Obama's smile can regrow hair - even for Karl Rove.

            by LoLoLaLa on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:12:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  He was played as the modern day version of (6+ / 0-)

        Stepin Fetchit.  Here's a man who has an impeccable education, and by all accounts has been a serious person.  He's being portrayed as incompetent, an "empty suit" and a "wimp".  In the last 7 years SNL hasn't had a skit nearlt as biting about Bush, and his lifestory warrants this type of ridicule.  What in Obama's background makes this characterization warranted?  SNL is getting a pass because it's comedy, but this message is seeping into the consciousness of the electorate.

        "Nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come." Victor Hugo

        by lordcopper on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:07:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Are you serious? (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          TheWurx, ptmflbcs

          Will Ferrell's Dubya impersonation was pretty damn biting I'd say.  It still is to this day.  

          I think you are trying to claim that they are giving Obama "special" treatment.  Your post even has an inkling of racial overtones.  I don't buy it for a second.  SNL has been a sample of the melting pot America is and their writing targets people all over the demographic map.  

          "The erudite are not wise and the wise are not erudite." - Lao Tzu

          by TheKost on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:21:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Thank you (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            TheKost

            Was going to respond to that nonsense, but you did it admirably.

            I cried when I had no shoes... until I met a man who had no feet. And I said, "Hey, can I have your shoes?"

            by TheWurx on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:32:37 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  This comment is for TheKost as well: (0+ / 0-)

              Are you trying to tell me that W's life as a partying frat boy, who never found a dry hole he didn't want to drill (multiple failed business with his dad's friends bailing him out with stockholder money)despite all his advantages (Yale and Harvard legatee) put's him in the same category as Obama?  If that's what you're saying you're either a Hillary shill, or a member of the GOP.

              "Nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come." Victor Hugo

              by lordcopper on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:28:48 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  What in the world are you talking about? (0+ / 0-)

                A good satirist has no sacred cows.  That's the point.  It doesn't mean that all the targets are equivalent.

                I cried when I had no shoes... until I met a man who had no feet. And I said, "Hey, can I have your shoes?"

                by TheWurx on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 01:24:37 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  What I'm talking about is that there must be at (0+ / 0-)

                  least a "grain" of truth in the portrayal in order for it to be good satire.  Examples- Ford had fallen in public,Carter had a pious personality, Reagan was old and not involved in the details, Bush 41 was patrician, Clinton was a philanderer, Bush 43 was a failure at everything he did in life (prior to being elected Governor).  When you take these truths and exaggerate them, their funny on some level.  Sometimes the object of satire grows into the role (such a Bush 43 and his continued fuck ups).  But to take a guy with impeccable academic credentials (a black guy) and feed into all the racist stereotypes that he doesn't have the intellectual capability, or character to be the President is damaging, particularly when there's nothing in his life that suggests those frailties.  

                  Again, satire must a least contain a grain of truth, otherwise it's not satire,but a gross mischaracterization.

                  "Nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come." Victor Hugo

                  by lordcopper on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 04:13:01 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

      •  studied and faithful (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Night Runner

        especially the part where he's in black face and crying and moaning to Hillary.

        Look, they may be roasting both sides, but they started with "bitch is the new black" and a skit about how "unfair" the media is to Hillary and "can we get you a cushion, Sen. Obama" and Sharpton in a dog collar and Jackson not knowing there's no such country as East Paraguay, so I'd say folks' reaction here is to be expected and anticipated.

        Maybe that will change now that they're being so "fair" and all.

        NetrootNews coming soon!

        by ksh01 on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:32:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  i agree (0+ / 0-)

      why must the Blackman be desperate, unintelligent, and incapable in all of their skits parodying Obama.

      Plus the keep doing it week after week.... it has gotten old now....

      Barack Obama is my favorite 3D Chess Player. Don't hate the player, Hate the game.

      by MasterHurrikane on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:29:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Oh jesus christ (0+ / 0-)

      spare me.

      "Sambo'ed him"  

      -------------------------------------------------------
      Take your protein pills and put your helmet on

      by SFOrange on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 04:05:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Agreed. It was a total satire. (6+ / 0-)

    But it's also dangerous cuz I think most people won't get it and will in fact interpret it as a slam on him, including undecided voters.

    •  A little presumptous... (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      pico, amnesiaproletariat

      ... of you to say what material is too subtle for people to interpret properly.  I would wager that most of SNL's target audience got the joke.  You don't have to play Interpretation Cop for them.

      I cried when I had no shoes... until I met a man who had no feet. And I said, "Hey, can I have your shoes?"

      by TheWurx on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 09:53:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well it was less clear cut pro Hillary (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Night Runner, haruki, anonymit

        than the first 2...so you could be right...but I m afraid if Mr. Downey's intent was to satirize her he failed.  Sure she was in curlers and with facial mud on her face...but she came across as knowleldgeable and he didn't....

        It's humor in that way was far too subtle.  And the 2 actors performances completely undermined what you think was Mr. Downey's intent....Amy Poehler played a competent,in charge person and he played him as twittering...and that is how he played him in the 2 debate performances.

        So if folks are upset with the characterizations and the skit I think they are right to be.  When something is this hard to explain or see...then occam's razor demands the other simple explanation

         

        •  I appreciate you analyzing the actual humor... (0+ / 0-)

          ... but I still think the humor value of the sketch -- and I did laugh at it -- was all targeted at Hillary.  The words "DRAMATIZATION" over the images made it pretty clear that the target of the satire was Hillary, not Barack.  I think the fact that it was subtly embedded speaks to the sketch's value.

          Clearly, as the comments reveal, misinterpretation is possible.  But the laughs seemed to me to come far more from the absurdity of the portrayal than from any actual criticism of Obama.  I think most people pretty much got it.

          I cried when I had no shoes... until I met a man who had no feet. And I said, "Hey, can I have your shoes?"

          by TheWurx on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:10:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sorry but the (0+ / 0-)

            sketches have all portrayed Obama as a "nothing" as compared to Clinton as the shrewd but victimized candidate.  Where is the sketch that portrays Obama as anything other than a prop?

            •  I think that's a tribute to Obama's quality... (0+ / 0-)

              ... as a candidate.  He has no glaring weaknesses to satirize.  So the only joke to make is how awesome he is and how Hillary is entirely helpless against him.  It's tough to satirize something that doesn't have any apparent flaws except to satirize its flawlessness.

              Of course, the next question could be, "Then why satirize him at all?"  The answer is pretty much, they haven't.  The debate sketches were targeted at the media.  The 3 a.m. sketch targeted Hillary.  And they have to do an Obama sketch - he's top dog right now.

              I cried when I had no shoes... until I met a man who had no feet. And I said, "Hey, can I have your shoes?"

              by TheWurx on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 01:28:21 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  It's partly the context (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        TheWurx

        Since the previous sketches made such big news everyone thinks SNL is, for lack of a better phrase, in the tank for Hillary. I myself had to forcibly erase that context from my mind before I could get the humor. And as the person below says, it reinforces the negative image put forward in the first sketch.

        With that said, I don't think SNL was doing anything intentionally malicious, and I did laugh, especially at the part where she asked voters to write to change their votes.

        Sorry if what I said came out as snobby.

    •  The news shows are only showing short clips (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Night Runner, anonymit, paintitblue

      that show Obama begging Hillary for help.  They're not getting context and wouldn't know that it's been introduced as "deceptive."

      NetrootNews coming soon!

      by ksh01 on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:35:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Right into the "Liberal" stereotype (0+ / 0-)

      "We know what's best for you and you probably won't understand this unless I explain it to you"

      -------------------------------------------------------
      Take your protein pills and put your helmet on

      by SFOrange on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 04:17:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The problem is not that it went after Obama (15+ / 0-)

    The problem is that IT WAS SO GODDAMN NOT FUNNY.

    Let's all take this time to think of some funnier skits poking fun at Obama.  A few simple conceits:

    You could have Obama part the Red Sea.
    You could have Bono endorse Obama.
    You could have Obama hanging out in a dorm room eating pizza watching Animal House with a bunch of college kids.
    You could have Obama appear on the Arsenio Hall show.

    It's easy to make fun of Obama.  His supporters (including me) probably put him on too much of a pedestal.  There are things about him that are ripe for mockery.

    But SNL's skits lately have just been completely humorless.  Boo.

    Clinton/Sinbad - Crossing the Commander-in-Chief threshold together!

    •  As I said, it's humor value is subjective... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      pico

      ... But that is NOT the complaint that has been raised about the sketch. I am a loyal viewer of SNL for over 30 years, and I would not try to raise a hue and cry every time they ran an unfunny sketch.

      It's about how Obama was portrayed in the sketch, and how oversensitive Kossacks utterly missed the joke.

      I cried when I had no shoes... until I met a man who had no feet. And I said, "Hey, can I have your shoes?"

      by TheWurx on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 09:55:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But you have to admit (10+ / 0-)

        It was like they didn't even try to be funny.  What was the conceit?  Obama is stupid, curses, and smokes (??), while Hillary is super amazing.  It didn't.  Even.  Make.  Sense.  And you could tell that it was dumb because nobody in the audience was laughing.  At all.

        The were ax-grinding, and ax-grinding is never funny.  The writers and performers let their own personal views get in the way and it turned out like shit.  Surprise!  SNL isn't Hardball.  Their job is to be funny, not topical.

        Like I said, there are a crap-ton of things one could make fun of Obama about, yet they chose to go with "Hillary Brilliant but Mean, Obama Inexperienced and a Smoker."

        They need new writers.

        Maybe Sinbad's looking for a gig, now that's he's not solving refugee crises?

        •  Uh, no. (4+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          TheWurx, jhutson, pgm 01, erin r

          The conceit was that they'd take Clinton's dishonest attack ads and inflate them to the point of absurdity.  

          I think you're reinforcing the diarist's point with your criticisms.

          Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

          by pico on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:04:40 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  actually HRC has not said that Obama (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            anonymit, Fawkes

            is stupid so the skit wasn't inflating HRC's attack ads with respect to that aspect of his personality. Normal irony would be to exaggerate his actual characteristics so having him be sort of a slovenly fool didn't make sense on any level. .

            •  *sigh* (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              TheWurx, pgm 01

              Her argument is that he's unprepared and inexperienced, and what happens when he gets the 3am phone call?  So they pushed it to the extreme by showing her - in her own mind - as the source of all wisdom, calm, and practicality while Obama falls apart.  That's the point: it's making fun of Clinton.

              Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

              by pico on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:12:36 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Uh, then why have they been portraying Obama (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                alba

                in this way in previous sketches?  Were they all supposed to be bits about what was going on in Hillary's head?

                •  Links? (0+ / 0-)

                  It's a hard argument to make, in a sketch beginning with a "this is how Hillary Clinton sees the world" disclaimer, that we're supposed to take anything we see seriously.  

                  Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

                  by pico on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:30:17 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  What other sketches??? (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  pico

                  Where have you seen this on SNL??  Please give me an example.

                  I cried when I had no shoes... until I met a man who had no feet. And I said, "Hey, can I have your shoes?"

                  by TheWurx on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:35:24 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  The debate sketches? (2+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:
                    Night Runner, alba

                    Where the intent is to portray Obama as an empty suit/guy with nothing to say and Hillary as great-but-unfairly treated?  I would say that Obama-as-idiot is going to absolutely be what the vile right wing hacks at SNL are going to be spewing this year.  Ugh.  Fortunately they aren't funny and nobody watches them anymore.

                    •  I asked for a link. (0+ / 0-)

                      Since some people have so completely misread the Clinton ad sketch, I'm not going to take your reading of the debate clips on your word alone.  Link, please?  

                      Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

                      by pico on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 12:28:30 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  oh come on - the debate parody of a week ago (0+ / 0-)

                    Saturday (I think). It made Obama look like a vapid fool just as this Saturday's sketch did. So the diarist's claim that we are missing the "satire" is ridiculous - SNL has offered the same insulting portrait of Obama at every chance and it has little to do with satire. Those who are trying to defend SNL as sophisticated humorists are missing the point - they are skewering Obama as a vapid empty suit and trying to have it both ways by sticking the insulting portrait in the fake HRC ad to create the appearance of balance.

                    •  Oh, please. (0+ / 0-)

                      They're not trying to "balance" anything in that sketch.  It's a parody of her 3am ad, plain and simple.

                      Why do people have to turn everything into some kind of Manichean battle between Us and Them, so much so that you stop seeing things for what they are?   A group of SNL writers thought that Clinton's 3am ad was ridiculous, so they made fun of it by churning out an even more ridiculous version of it.  It's called humor from reductio ad absurdum. There's no politics there: Obama has nothing to do with it, so you don't need to defend him.  

                      Sheesh.

                      Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

                      by pico on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 12:27:00 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I'm not normally terribly sensitive (0+ / 0-)

                        but I was surprised by the sketch.  It played straight into Clinton's portrayal of Obama. I'm surprised you don't see that.

                        •  the other way around: (0+ / 0-)

                          As I just said:

                          A group of SNL writers thought that Clinton's 3am ad was ridiculous, so they made fun of it by churning out an even more ridiculous version of it.

                          That's not "playing straight into", that's mockery through exaggeration.  The ad is about Clinton's arrogance, not Obama's incompetence.

                          Arrrrggggghhhhh

                          Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

                          by pico on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 12:09:57 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

              •  You know, Pico, WE ARE NOT STUPID (0+ / 0-)

                much as you may want to believe it. The sketch was not funny. period. Those watching it in person did not laugh and very few of us watching it on TV laughed.

                •  Did I argue it was funny? (0+ / 0-)

                  No, in fact I repeatedly said it wasn't.   I don't think you're stupid - but I think you need to fine-tune your critical reading/viewing skills.  

                  Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

                  by pico on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 12:19:18 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  fyi (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          TheWurx, pico

          listened to the clip again and people are laughing.

          grinding an ax much? I mean seriously it's making fun of Hillary Clinton.  You know, the outrageous, absurd lengths she's going to in her campaign to defeat Obama?

          •  not really (0+ / 0-)

            and repeating it doesn't make it so.  By the same token, you can argue that any sketch about George Bush makes fun of us and our stereotypes about him.

            •  with the opening comment (0+ / 0-)

              "I'm Hillary Clinton and I approved this unfair and deceptive message"

              As in, "hi, this is playing on every campaign slur I want you to believe about Obama that isn't verifiable."

              At which point it becomes impossible to discuss these things with his unreasonable supporters.  Notice the emphasis on his "lack of experience?"  A clear comparison to her campaign.  The audience is invited to see that as a caricature of the Clinton campaign, not a judgment on Obama.

        •  I thought Jon Stewart's (0+ / 0-)

          playing "Jesus Christ Superstar" as Barack Obama's campaign song was hilarious.

          My heart belongs to Kucinich...

          by Wit Whither Wilt on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:40:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  You've been watching SNL for 30 years and can say (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        ksh01, tuder, anonymit

        this???

        ... the talent on SNL right now is as about as deep as it has been at any time in its history.

        Belushi, Radner, Akroyd, Chase, Garvey, Curtain, Newman...on and on and on, but long gone.  I find the talent on SNL right now (and for several years back) as shallow as it's ever been - and my opinion has nothing to do with Obama or Clinton skits or appearances.

        I watched the night Hillary was on, just because I wanted to see what they were doing. HRC was in good humor and amusing.  But the Obama "cartoon" using Sharpton and Jackson characters was unfunny and borderline racist.  The pirate ship skit was excruciatingly boring and way tooooo long.

        "Evil is a lack of empathy, a total incapacity to feel with their fellow man." - Capt. Gilbert,Psychiatrist, at the end of Nuremberg trials.

        by 417els on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:21:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I knew someone would gripe about that (0+ / 0-)

          Belushi and Radner were amazing. I found Aykroyd a little obnoxious, but he did some things better than anyone. Chase was the first superstar from the show, but the years have shown his humor to be pretty cheap and detached.  Curtin and Newman were able actresses.

          Garvey -- I think you mean Dana Carvey, who came many years later.

          When the show premiered, no one had seen anything like it before. Now, of course, we have seen something like it before -- namely, the previous 30 years. The show does not have the frequent highs that it used to, but back then there were MANY lows... many horrible sketches.  You almost never saw a good sketch on after 12:30.  Sometimes you didn't see a good sketch after Update.  Sometimes you didn't see a good sketch after the opening credits.

          I cried when I had no shoes... until I met a man who had no feet. And I said, "Hey, can I have your shoes?"

          by TheWurx on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:40:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes - Carvey, you're correct. (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            TheWurx

            SNL was indeed a new creature when it first came on the scene.  I remember people planning get-togethers around SNL; it was in one way or another a reserved time slot in so may people's week.  Also, Monty Python was airing...an entirely different kind of humor, but just as popular among the people I knew.

            You are methinks, TheWurx, much more of an aficionado of SNL (and I'm guessing other comedy shows) than I, that's for sure.  Ye gods, remembering that sketches declined after 12:30!  I couldn't even tell you what time SNL aired in the beginning -other than later on Saturday night.  Nor how much later Carvey came along (but The Church Lady seems way in the past to me).  It really does nothing for me these days and I don't know anyone who watches it...which covers a huge age span.

            And I am griping, now that you mention it. Nothing makes me laugh like Father Guido, Judy Miller..."and now our daughter will entertain you".  And John Cleese in just about anything.  Can't believe Fawlty Towers was only 12 episodes.

            Stephen Colbert is now the love of my life.  And I think he was actually funniest during the spell without his writers, but he must have been working himself to death coming up with it all himself.

            "Evil is a lack of empathy, a total incapacity to feel with their fellow man." - Capt. Gilbert,Psychiatrist, at the end of Nuremberg trials.

            by 417els on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 01:40:57 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  If they had tried to be funny... (6+ / 0-)

      they could have reversed the roles - with Hillary as the befuddled President calling on Barack to figure out what to do.  Or they could have done a shtick about a call being received at 3:00 and Bill answering (while he's engaged in some sexual romp).  Or they could have done one with both Barack and Hillary (as POTUS/Veep) BOTH falling to pieces in a crisis; having to call on W to help them out.  There were lots of opportunities - but the one they came up with was not funny at all.

      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."

      by Viceroy on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:01:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Christin, Fawkes

        They need better writers.

        Somebody call Sinbad!

      •  Not one of those suggestions is any funnier. (0+ / 0-)

        However, they have the advantages of Barack being portrayed in a way you would prefer. Your oversensitivity is clouding your comedic sense. The point of the sketch is Hillary mis-portraying Barack, and in order to do that, you have to see the mis-portrayal.

        I cried when I had no shoes... until I met a man who had no feet. And I said, "Hey, can I have your shoes?"

        by TheWurx on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:04:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Huh?? (5+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Christin, Night Runner, tuder, geejay, Fawkes

          How does portraying both Clinton and Obama as idiots having to call on Bush to help in any way present "my candidate" well??

          I think you didn't bother to read what I said - which is interesting given the point of your diary.

          The skit was terrible because it was not funny.

          "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."

          by Viceroy on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:08:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  That shows them at least equally incompetent (0+ / 0-)

            which you clearly prefer.  

            But in any case, that is a completely different sketch, and not at all what the point of this sketch is.  The sketch is about Hillary's tactics.  The sketch you describe is not.

            I cried when I had no shoes... until I met a man who had no feet. And I said, "Hey, can I have your shoes?"

            by TheWurx on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:13:37 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Huh?? (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              tuder

              How exactly do you know anything about m