Daily Kos

Team Obama STUPIDLY floats Hillary as VP?!?

Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:10:11 AM PDT

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!

You took the bait! WHY?!?!?

Unless you think Tom Daschle was freelancing while in Meet the Press. [Which would not be the first time an Obama surrogate went off the reservation. But unlike Samantha Power or Austin Gooslby, Tom Daschle is a seasoned politcal veteran].

The Clintons were floating the whole "Obama would make  agreat Vice President" shtick because Hillary knows her harsh campaigning in Ohio and Texas pissed off a lot of Obama supporters, and she will need to bring the party together if she is the nominee. The only way to do that (in their minds) is to put Obama on the ticket.

It also, they hope, blunts some of the resentment by giving Obama supporters at least the idea that Obama can run again in the future as VP -- or even in 2012 if Hillary goes down in flames.

Until Sunday, the Obama campaign had the correct reaction: He's not going to be VP. Period.

That effectively shoots down the whole argument, and blunts the force of the belittling criticism.

But, instead of leaving it at that, Tom Daschle says that Hillary as VP would be a great thing possibility!

But this also plays right into Hillary's hands, don't you see? She was baiting Obama to say something like that, because she wants to be on the ticket no matter what. She'll take what she can get, at this point.

More importantly, she wanted Obama to send a signal that all of her harsh attacks on him were "forgiven and forgotten." By floating the possibility of an Obama/Clinton ticket, you basically say to all of the angry Obama supporters: "No harm no foul." It's stupid!

Obama should have said that Hillary was on his VP short list until she decided to campaign in a harsh, dishonest way, and engage in the very same politics he is trying to change in Washington. Now, he does not see how he can put her on the ticket with him and still retain any credibility for what he is trying to accomplish.

That would have reinforced the meme that Hillary is a ruthless, ambition-filled politico who cares more about getting elected than in helping the party or the country. It also would have put her in her place as the runner up who is trying to come from behind to win -- rather than the frontrunner. i.e. as a Loser.

I have been very impressed, for the most part, in the way the Obama campaign has been run thus far. With one glaring exception. They have done a very poor job of keeping their surrogates on message and on point. To a certain extent, this is due to the relative inexperience of Obama's non-political campaign advisors. But, how do you explain Tom Daschle? Either he was saying something that was authorized at the highest levels of the campaign (which would be a sign of a major political miscalculation), or he was throwing that out there on his own, thinking it would be approved by the campaign.

I happen to believe it was the former. You don't float that kind of trial ballooon without first making sure it is OK with Barack Obama himself. And, Tom Daschle is not the kind of surrogate who would go out on a limb like that.

Here is one line of attack, incidentally, taht the Obama people need to make. Point out that Hillary's claim of "35 years of experience" iuncludes her disasterous attempt to reform our nation's health caare system. The one aspect of her time as First lady that we now she had a hand in making policy, and she screwed it up be being too secretive, arrogant, and not forthcoming with members of her own party in the Congress.

HIllary will claim, and has claimed, that she "learned" from that experience. But, Obama can then ask how can we trust that she has learned when she is making the same mistakes now, by not releasing her tax returns, or fulling disclosing her records as First Lady. She's doing the same thing now as she was doing then.

This line of attack, I think would cripple Hillary's campaign. It takes her one claim of superiority to Obama, and turns it against her. It also ties in her failure to disclose her records, and raises the spector of more Clinton scandals without going into Ken Starr territory. It also contradicts the perception that Obama is not tough enough to fight back. It is a completely legitimate and above board attack on Hillary, but also a devestaingly effective one.

Too bad no one in the Obama campaign will ever use it.

Tags: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Vice President, Tom Daschle, Samantha Power, Austin Goolsby (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 82 comments

  •  why can't the Obama campaign use this? (11+ / 0-)

    To get them to vote for Obama in hopes of getting Hillary as VP? It's tit-for-tat, and may stop the Clintons from making that argument if they think voters will swing over to Obama because of that.

    What's madness but nobility of the soul at odds with circumstance?

    by slinkerwink on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:10:15 AM PDT

    •  I thought that's why they were doing it (6+ / 0-)

      to effectively neutralize the whole "you could get him by voting for me" meme.  

      "Hillary would make an excellent vice president...for someone".  Cut to McCain endorsement footage.  I know, I know, they can't do that.

    •  Because it helps Hillary right now. (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Marek, joe shikspack, TKH

      Obama is ahead. He should flaot the possibility that he will refuse to be opn the ticket with Hillary (as he did) to bail her butt out.

      But, by holding out the possibility of putting HER on the ticket with him, he is essentially saying that all of her attacks on him did not matter, and that his whole campaign theme of a new politics is all just tactical positioning and not serious.

      It also rewards her bad behavior.

      •  I think you're full of shit (4+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        PoliMorf, byteb, BillyZoom, Quicklund

        I watched MTP and Dashle just asically repeated what Obama himself said in the Debate which is  "Hillary would e on anyone short list".

        That answer is taught in Politics 101 and if you thought this was  Team Obama Floating anything  it's you who are being STUPID!!

        http://dumpjoe.com/

        by ctkeith on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:30:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  the ny dailyew news quotes daschle thus (14+ / 0-)

          Daschle said on NBC's "Meet the Press" that Obama was looking for "the person who can serve in the capacity of President should he not be around. She's certainly in that category, but probably a lot of others as well."

          (This is the story linked in the diary).

          In other words--Hillary isn't so special.

          Daschle's remarks seem perfectly within bounds, and this diary entirely overboard--not that that's so unusual around here these days.

          •  That was my take too (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            DaveV

            Daschle didn't say anything Obama hasn't said.  At no time did anyone on Obama's team promise Hillary a spot on the ticket.

            An arguement can be made that Hillary has guaranteed Obama  a spot, but it would be a week arguement.

            •  nor will they. (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              DaveV, joe shikspack

              Hillary's team is showing just how desperate they are.

              To fully understand Christianity's duplicity, first recognize that the Vatican's St. Peter's Square is actually an oval.

              by agnostic on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:50:18 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Desperate and vile (3+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                DaveV, agnostic, joe shikspack

                Monster Inc will do or say anything, see Ken Star for an example.

                My great hope is that when she goes down in flames she will take the DLC with her.

                •  monster, inc. LOL! (0+ / 0-)

                  To fully understand Christianity's duplicity, first recognize that the Vatican's St. Peter's Square is actually an oval.

                  by agnostic on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 07:36:18 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You can thank (0+ / 0-)

                    anorchofascist for Monster Inc, I stole it from him/her.

                    http://www.dailykos.com/...

                    •  LOL. the best I could come up with was (0+ / 0-)

                      Hillary Monster McClinton.

                      But I promised never to use Hillary Monster McClinton again, so that is the last time that you will see Hillary Monster McClinton here. I wonder if using Hillary Monster McClinton elsewhere is still appropriate. No, when I make a promise never to use Hillary Monster McClinton again, that mean that I will NEVER use Hillary Monster McClinton again. So it is only fair that I completely stop using Hillary Monster McClinton forever and a day.

                      Say goodbye to the term, Hillary Monster McClinton.

                      To fully understand Christianity's duplicity, first recognize that the Vatican's St. Peter's Square is actually an oval.

                      by agnostic on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 08:56:26 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  Great idea for a new line of toys (0+ / 0-)

                    Countess Hillary: a Hillary doll with vampire
                    fangs, bat ears, and cloak.

                    Frankenshill: a Howard Wolfson doll with classic
                    styling: bolts in the neck, crude stitches holding
                    together a block-shaped head

                    etc.

                    Collect the whole series! Amaze your friends!

                    •  and an effin red, butt-ugly sweater (0+ / 0-)

                      and I spologize to all butts who were insulted by this comparison.

                      To fully understand Christianity's duplicity, first recognize that the Vatican's St. Peter's Square is actually an oval.

                      by agnostic on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 03:33:09 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

          •  You are quite right -- I saw the interview... (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            DaveV, paintitblue

            ...and Daschle was just being blandly respectful towards Clinton -- he wasn't coming close to seriously floating her as VP.  The diarist is WAY overreacting here.

            In any event, it is moot.  Obama will NOT offer the vice-presidency to Clinton, which would totally undercut his "change" meme, and Clinton -- despite the diarist's feverish certainty she will do anything to be anywhere on the ticket -- would not be interested in the number two spot, after touting her two terms as First Lady as her president-in-training years.

            I will vote for whoever or whatever the Democrats nominate -- animal, vegetable or mineral.

            by Finck II on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 07:10:02 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  here's what he actually said (8+ / 0-)

          MR. RUSSERT:  Would, would Barack Obama consider Hillary Clinton for vice president?

          FMR. SEN. DASCHLE:  I'm sure she would.  I--he's said on more than one occasion that, that Barack Obama has, has a lot of ideas about who ought to be vice president, and she's--she'd certainly fit as well.

          MR. RUSSERT:  But if he said it's time to turn the page and not send the same people back to Washington, how could he possibly do that?

          FMR. SEN. DASCHLE:  Well, I think that there are a lot of ways to turn the page, and certainly his candidacy is going to turn the page in many respects. There's no question about that.  The bottom line is, he wants the strongest person, the person who can serve in the capacity of president should he not be around.  She's certainly in that category, but probably a lot of others as well.

          "This...this is the fault of that Clinton Penis! And that powermongering wife of his!"

          by CaptUnderpants on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:35:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Obama is supposed to be Graduate level Politics.. (0+ / 0-)

          ...not "Politics 101."

          Obama should have leveraged Hillary's sesperation into a chance to reinfoirce his "I'm about changing politics in Washington" theme, and to point out that Hillary is engaging in the same old politics he's going to change.

          Saying that she WAS on his short list, at one point, but that he's "reassessing" that after her Rovian campaign tactics over the past 3 weeks, would send a very clear signal. It would also be hardball.

          •  Hesoid (3+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            DaveV, serrano, paintitblue

            Your charactorization of what Daschle said is WAY over the top. His comment was a very polite and a perfectly appropriate way of making Russerts question FAVOR Obama.

            At the end of the Daschle interview the only conclusion a viewer could come away with was that Hillary was playing a silly game and was a desperate politician. If someone floats a name for VP that person MUST think their VP choice can handle the job of President. CHECKMATE!

            http://dumpjoe.com/

            by ctkeith on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:45:48 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  That would be one option (0+ / 0-)

            But that is not the only option.  Your hardline choice means this issue would instantly dominate the media narrative all the way to PA.  Perhaps this is simply not a narrative the Obama camp wants sapping away at its energy.  

            There is more than one way to handle an overture from a rival camp.  One way is to reply with force.  Another way is to starve it to death.

            Since Sen Obama's own strategy seems to be working pretty well for him, I tend to roll with the strategic options the candidate chooses.  A different candidate might well choose your option and that would be the most effective for them.  

            Take your fear and shove it, it ain't workin' on us no more.

            by Quicklund on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 07:15:19 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  another full of shit vote (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          kanuk

          I watched MTP and Dashle answered Pumpkin Head's question about whether Hillary would be a VP pick for Obama by countering something along the lines of yeah and so would a lot of other ppl

          Your diary is just another distortion typical of the HIllary Campaign

          You are a child of the universe; no less than the trees and the stars... Desiderata

          by byteb on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:42:20 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm not a HIllary supporter. (0+ / 0-)

            And how you could come to that conclusion after reading my entire diary (if you read it at all) is a mystery to me.

            •  Hesoid (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              terjeanderson

              Great warriors win battles by out flanking their opponents not by taking them head on.

              The reason I'm supporting Obama is because unlike Hillary he doesn't Panic.The last week proved to me just how cool under pressure Obama can be and just like she proved with her AUMF vote Hillary Panics easily.

              http://dumpjoe.com/

              by ctkeith on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:57:39 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  I watched that Meet The Press segment. (3+ / 0-)

        And though Daschle did say that Hillary was a possibility, he also said that Obama's range of choices for VP would be wider than that.

  •  Presidential politics and professional wrestling (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    PoliMorf, MarkC

    are a long ways apart. This election isn't about opposing teams or a clash of titans. It's a process to determine how we steer America clear of some potentially fatal obstacles in our path, not the least of which is eight years of corruption.

    Forget the election. It's Sen. Obama's to lose. Think about what happens afterward. Sen. Clinton and the Bill could add a great deal of weight to a presidential administration and legislative strategy that are vital to our survival.

    (0+ / 0-), (0+ / 0-), it's off to kos I go...

    by doorguy on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:14:37 AM PDT

  •  Hillary VP = We Lose. Can you imagine the.. (0+ / 0-)

    in-fighting.... I can - and I think i'll pass.
    Besides, I don't think Daschle speaks for Barack.

    •  I honestly think people would finally calm down (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      PoliMorf, MarkC, terjeanderson

      here and realize that she would be a net-add against any McCain VP nominee.  Her backing down could go a long way to begin the process of healing wounds and perceptions.  Let her scrap against the Republicans as she's doing now.

      However, this is all moot: it won't happen and both sides know it.  There's fine VP picks out there for either Democratic candidate right now.

      "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

      by wader on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:20:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Clinton's meme is that Barack isn't ready for (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    MarkC, Hprof, mcfly, terjeanderson, paintitblue

    President, only VP . . . by extension, Clinton is presumed the only Democrat who can run as President this go-around.

    So, adopting the language and offering that as meaning, "Sure, Clinton is certainly ready to be a good VP" is just "I know you are, but what am I" politics in the public eye: defuse the original impact by framing Clinton's original point into something that now seems confusion (i.e., due to the dual meanings) or plain silliness.

    Seems OK to me.  And, it's a positive way to attack Clinton's framing.

    "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

    by wader on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:17:29 AM PDT

    •  I see your point. (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      wader

      The idea being that the way Bill and Hillary framed it was vangue enough to imply a joint ticket with either of them on the VP slot.

      So, Obama takes ahold of the ambiguity and says Hillary woul dmake a good VP.

      But, I think that is stupid for the reasons I stated. I think you give up more than you gain from that.

      •  I don't think Obama gives up anything (0+ / 0-)

        by adopting their meme for himself.

        Clinton is falsely acting magnanimous about "offering" to run with Obama as her VP.  It looks open and inviting, with no strings.

        Obama really doesn't need to say, "Oh, I think she's just playing nice, but is really a ruthless campaigner", etc. to get his point across.

        Instead, he uses honey to bring the voters to his side, too.

        So, IF people become either confused by the same meme meaning two different things at two different times, find the point silly . . . they'll see Obama as being just as confident and capable as Clinton in any respect that she claims.  Because he acts similarly confident of his presumption on roles as she does.

        In a way, he's attacking her perceived strength by glomming onto the same level of Executive inevitability.  He doesn't need to frame her as being mean to him in the process.

        Heck, she actually would be a good VP candidate and would obviously scrap against the Republicans pretty well.  At most, he could allude to her tactics and mention something along those lines as her strength - but, why do so?  Any potential negative he brings up here (i.e., her tough campaigning, mistruths, etc.) could be turned around by her into a positive for this particular point.  Best to avoid that subject in this context, I feel.

        "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

        by wader on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:30:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  hey, look at this, Hesoid (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    wader

    On CNN’s "American Morning" Obama communications chief Robert Gibbs attacked Clinton on NAFTA, dismissed her hints at a split ticket as "political gamesmanship" and supported the idea of seating Michigan and Florida delegates.

    What's madness but nobility of the soul at odds with circumstance?

    by slinkerwink on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:17:47 AM PDT

    •  Is that seating MI and FL (0+ / 0-)

      after re-votes?  Or just "as is"?

      •  I'm not sure (0+ / 0-)

        I think it's more being supportive of the idea that the FL and MI delegates should be seated at the convention, but it doesn't mention a re-vote or a "as-is" in the quote.

        What's madness but nobility of the soul at odds with circumstance?

        by slinkerwink on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:22:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I would assume (0+ / 0-)

          Since he's been saying he wants to play by the rules all along, he would only be supportive of seating the delegates as long as they were assigned by the rules.

          "This...this is the fault of that Clinton Penis! And that powermongering wife of his!"

          by CaptUnderpants on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:39:01 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Not good enough. (0+ / 0-)

      Obama should say that he always had Hillary on his short list for VP -- until she wwent nuclear in Ohio and Texas.

      Has could say that campaigning like Karl Rove should have consequences. That it would undercut hiw whole point about changing politics in Washingto if he were to reward Hillary's bad behavior by putting heron the ticket.

      He should even admit that it might have politiocal advantages to it (not really -- but admit it anyway for effect), but that as a matter of principle he could not puut her on the ticket if she continued to campaign this way.

      Leave a sliver of hope for a Hillary/Obama reconcilliation there. But, you get to reinfiorce your themes, and slam her for being arrogant and ambituous all at the same time.

  •  This is not an issue (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    wader

    Obama would not tolerate the influence of federal lobbyists in his campaign. So he could offer it to Clinton under those circumstances. She'd decline, instead opting to try for Senate Majority Leader.

  •  There is nothing wrong with floating Clinton (6+ / 0-)

    My suggestion is for Obama response on this issue:

    "I will be happy to consider Hillary Clinton as my Vice-Presidential running mate as she is clearly one of the leading Democrats on the national stage. I would have to assume that is what the Clinton campaign means since I am now leading in delegates, states won, and popular vote. I intend to win this campaign and then I will consider my Vice-Presidential choices, Clinton among them."

    If he is pushed on follow-up, such as "but if she is the nominee would you consider," he needs to say:

    "Again, I am not sure why you are asking this of the leader in votes, delegates, and states won. I am running for and winning the race to be the democratic nominee for President and my time and energy is focused on that race."

    He needs to maintain his gracious quality and he will be under pressure to consider her. So why not say he will consider her - it keeps him gracious and pushes back that he is the leader.

    We have a natural right to make use of our pens as of our tongue, at our peril, risk and hazard. Voltaire, Dictionnaire Philosophique, 1764

    by MMW on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:21:27 AM PDT

  •  Hillary for Senate Majority Leader (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    wader

    I have no problem with this.  Obama shouldn't, either.

    I know, it's probably not what you want to hear. oD

    by obligatorydiscord on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:21:58 AM PDT

  •  That's what I'd want as the nominee ... (0+ / 0-)

    ... a VP who has repeatedly said I'm unqualified. Now, that would look good. And it would be so easy to explain.

    Sarcasm off, Clinton on the ticket would be a millstone.

  •  I don't think it's stupid (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    MarkC, wader, mcfly

    He's doing the same thing to Clinton that she (and Bill) are trying to do to him, which is to suggest that if her supporters vote for him they will get her in the process.

    He doesn't have to follow through on this after he gets the nomination.

  •  It's just politicking (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    MarkC, wader, mcfly, Quicklund

    She said he's make a good VP, and now he's saying, "No, you'd make a good VP."

    Neither of them really means it.

  •  You're wrong. (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    TKH, mlandman

    The Clintons were floating the whole "Obama would make  agreat Vice President" shtick because Hillary knows her harsh campaigning in Ohio and Texas pissed off a lot of Obama supporters, and she will need to bring the party together if she is the nominee.

    That is absolutely not the reason they're doing this. The reason they're floating the notion of an Obama VP gig is to give voters cover to voter for her. Those who are hemming and hawing can now say, "I can just vote for Hillary and get them both!" Given this as the reason, it might actually make much more sense for Obama to leave open the possibility of Hillary as VP (as repugnant as I find that), as opposed to ruling it out.

  •  "because Hillary knows her harsh campaigning (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    onanyes

    in Ohio and Texas pissed off a lot of Obama supporters"

    I believe her motive is a little more shrewd than that. She realizes that a lot of Obama voters would vote for him, but maybe not for her. By putting him on the tickets as VP, she hopes to pick up voters who otherwise wouldn't vote for her alone.

    If you see me behind you..don't assume I'm following you. We just happen to be going the same way and if you slow down, I'll run over your ass.

    by TKH on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:26:04 AM PDT

    •  That's essentially what I said. (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      onanyes

      she will need to bring the party together if she is the nominee. The only way to do that (in their minds) is to put Obama on the ticket.

      It also, they hope, blunts some of the resentment by giving Obama supporters at least the idea that Obama can run again in the future as VP -- or even in 2012 if Hillary goes down in flames.

      •  Yes...that's why I rec'd your comment (n/t) (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        onanyes

        If you see me behind you..don't assume I'm following you. We just happen to be going the same way and if you slow down, I'll run over your ass.

        by TKH on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:32:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  and that is why I rec'd all of your comments (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          TKH

          I think that you are on the right track.

          When liberals saw 9-11, we wondered how we could make the country safe. When conservatives saw 9-11, they saw an investment opportunity.

          by onanyes on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:44:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I see a downside to both candidates. Hillary is (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            onanyes

            tough competitor and I believe she really wants to do what is right, BUT she will do just about anything to get into office. I just hope she doesn't destroy the party to get the nomination.

            I see Barack as an innocent who honestly wants to do what is right for America and the party, but I fear his lack of political experience and toughness could lead to problems if he becomes president.

            It is sorta funny that Hillary uses her time as First Lady as presidential experience. I believe she has no more than Barack does. Her time in the Whitehouse is not real "decision making" experience. It's sorta like saying, "I stay in Motel 6 a lot, therefore I am qualified to be the corporate CEO."

            She was there when decisions were made and maybe Bill even asked for her opinion, but the decisions were ultimately his, not hers. Big difference.

            If you see me behind you..don't assume I'm following you. We just happen to be going the same way and if you slow down, I'll run over your ass.

            by TKH on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 07:08:06 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  remember this (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              TKH

              BHO has had some tough political fights (to get elected); HRC has not.

              But yes, there is no such thing as a perfect candidate.

              When liberals saw 9-11, we wondered how we could make the country safe. When conservatives saw 9-11, they saw an investment opportunity.

              by onanyes on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 09:30:42 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  I know a number of people who like, (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      elmo

      and will vote for, Obama but refuse to vote for Hillary. I am not speaking about Dems, but Independents and even Repubs who are tired of the Republican "cluster fuck" that is currently going on in Washington.

      If you see me behind you..don't assume I'm following you. We just happen to be going the same way and if you slow down, I'll run over your ass.

      by TKH on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:31:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I think Obama is right (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    paintitblue

    in keeping to his message of prematurity.  Let the speculation continue around him...he's concerned with locking down the nomination.  When he's got it, he'll start worrying about a VP.

    Leave everything open as a possibility but make absolutely no commitments and really try to limit even suggestions for possible VPs.  That way, Hillary supporters don't feel like they were promised anything before he wins the nomination that he decides not to deliver on later (if that's what he chooses to do).

  •  What would you have him do... (0+ / 0-)

    look chauvinistic by saying NO. Do you actually think she means she'll make him her VP. I don't think so, this just makes her look softer by implying that she would offer it to him. Don't be so gullible.

  •  read the whole quote (0+ / 0-)

    MR. RUSSERT:  Would, would Barack Obama consider Hillary Clinton for vice president?

    FMR. SEN. DASCHLE:  I'm sure she would.  I--he's said on more than one occasion that, that Barack Obama has, has a lot of ideas about who ought to be vice president, and she's--she'd certainly fit as well.

    MR. RUSSERT:  But if he said it's time to turn the page and not send the same people back to Washington, how could he possibly do that?

    FMR. SEN. DASCHLE:  Well, I think that there are a lot of ways to turn the page, and certainly his candidacy is going to turn the page in many respects. There's no question about that.  The bottom line is, he wants the strongest person, the person who can serve in the capacity of president should he not be around.  She's certainly in that category, but probably a lot of others as well.

    He said that Hillary is one of many people who could fit the bill. The difference is, unlike Clinton, he hasn't engaged in attacks on Clinton's readiness to be commander-in-chief, so saying she would be considered as a V.P. doesn't sound hypocritical.

    "This...this is the fault of that Clinton Penis! And that powermongering wife of his!"

    by CaptUnderpants on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:37:45 AM PDT

    •  I would have ruled her ought because of her... (0+ / 0-)

      ...tactics. In fact, I would have pointed out her hypocrisy, and said that how can I put her on the ticket and expect her to defend me against John McCain and the GOP's inevitable attacks on my experienmce if she herself has engaged in the very same attacks?

  •  there be one, only one reason why (0+ / 0-)

    Bill floated Obama as VP approach. Her campaign knows they have lost. This last set of primaries and caucuses drove the stake into their tiny hearts.

    Bill know that they ONLY way they can stay in the race is by confusion, or co-opting barack's campaign. by calling him a perfect VP, while throwing the kitchen sink at him at all other times, they look schizophrenic, until you realize that their only goal is to stay somehow in the limelight. The last thing they can both handle (bill especially) is losing the klieg lights when the cameras are rolling.

    To fully understand Christianity's duplicity, first recognize that the Vatican's St. Peter's Square is actually an oval.

    by agnostic on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:39:00 AM PDT

  •  What's the problem? (0+ / 0-)

    I realize that, for some Democrats, Hillary is the anti-christ in this campaign. But she ought to be on Obama's short list, just as he ought to be on hers. (In her case, if she finds some way to win the nomination, he's really the only good choice she has and she'd perhaps be lucky to get him.)

    Sen. Clinton has pissed me off a few times with what I think are unfair comments about Sen. Obama. But for the most part, their competition has been about as civil and fair-minded as a close race in American politics can get. I think the benefits to the Democratic Party of the nominating battle stretching out this long have been enormous and the drawbacks, few.

    I want Obama to get the nomination, yes.

    I want the party to be unified and I want McCain crushed in November and I want strong Democratic majorities in the House and Senate.

    If, somehow, Hillary gets the nomination, of course I'll vote for her, with less glee and more worry than I might otherwise have, but I sure shall do so.  But I live in Massachusetts and McCain doesn't have a chance here against either of our candidates. My opinion no longer really matters. ;-)

  •  Did you read what you linked? (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Into The Stars

    A tongue-in-cheek Obama camp was responding to jabs from Clinton's side that he wasn't qualified to be commander in chief and should settle for being her running mate.

    First link.

  •  Axelrod was on Morning Joe this a.m. and said (0+ / 0-)

    that it was way too premature to talk about running mates.  He said something else that I didn't hear but it was along the lines of if Obama thought that Clinton could offer the kind of change that the country needs, he wouldn't be running.  Did anyone else catch that?

    Middle Aged White Jewish Mom for Obama

    by nycmom on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:58:56 AM PDT

  •  Axelrod put paid to that this am on Morning Joe (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    paintitblue

    relax! They know the game. If we know it, don't you think they do too. Tom Daschle is a seasoned politician, and I am sure he wasn't at all floating that idea. He simply said that she would be considered as many others would be! There is no need to appear totally arrogant about it... Tem Obama has a fine line to tread, and they are goingabout it carefully, but surely! They got here without our advise. They will get there without it. Keep fundraising, canvassing and phonebanking! Its what we do best, and winning elections is what Obama does best!

    Last week he was a Muslim, this week he's a Christian fundamentalist?! Excuse me?! Me head's spinning!

    by karanja on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 07:00:28 AM PDT

  •  Don't Panic (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    paintitblue

    While some of me would greatly enjoy the spectacle of Sen Obama slapping-down Sen Clinton's VP asperations in no uncertain terms, another part of me recognizes doing so would be poor politics.  Sen Daschale's Krispy Kreme priase for the so-called Dream Ticket was light and sweet and completely devoid of substance.  His comments obligates Sen Obama in no manner whatsoever.  It's like when the band tell you your home town is the rockingest home town they've ever seen.  Everyone cheers and no one files suit when a new 'mst rockingest' town is discovered the next night.

    You pick your battles and Sen Daschele's comments tell me the Obama campaign doesnot want to fight the 'who will be VP' battle in the open and/or not at this point in time.  So Sen Daschale said some pleasant happy words and moved on.

    Take your fear and shove it, it ain't workin' on us no more.

    by Quicklund on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 07:09:37 AM PDT

  •  On the contrary... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Quicklund

    I think it's EXACTLY what the Obama campaign should do.

    Call their bluff: offer her the VP position.  Box THEM into a corner, rather than the other way around.

    Offer it now and see what happens.  And make the offer contingent on Hillary dropping her campaign for President today.

    We are a party of innovation...We are willing to suffer the discomfort of change in order to achieve a better future. -- Barbara Jordan

    by wmtriallawyer on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 07:14:00 AM PDT

  •  Well if he pulls her in as VP (0+ / 0-)

    he should make sure he doesn't take any rides in convertibles through Little Rock.

    Iz n ur t00bs, hijkn ur trux.

    by konscious on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 07:14:27 AM PDT

  •  Let's put the posturing aside, folks (0+ / 0-)

    and be realistic.  Why is Clinton floating the dream ticket idea?  It helps her in the nomination race.  The only potential downside is that it ties her hands on the VP selection if she wins the nomination.  And that is an illusory downside---at this point, she absolutely, positively has to offer it to him anyway, given that she won't win pledged delegates and would fracture the party if she didn't offer it to him.  Getting him to accept would be much more difficult than deciding to offer it to him.

    And we do have to realize that the opposite is almost true at this point as well.  If Clinton wins Pennsylvania, she'll be in the position that Obama will have to offer it to her.  As many moral and campaign theme based reasons as there might be not to offer it, the danger of splitting the party is too great otherwise.  We have to face the facts that Clinton has a huge number of supporters and not all of them would automatically back Obama as the nominee.  

  •  Plenty of names being floated (0+ / 0-)

    Means nothing at this point. Could even be turned into a plus -- "After due consideration, while I appreciate the skills that Senator Clinton would bring to the ticket, I want her judgement and leadership to remain in the United States Senate to help guide this nation into its future course." That way he continues to take the high road, and if she works against him it makes her look even pettier than she already does.

    "Old soldiers never die -- they get young soldiers killed." -- Bill Maher

    by Cali Scribe on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 07:47:54 AM PDT

  •  I think you're missing the point (0+ / 0-)

    The Clintons aren't floating the idea because they want a joint ticket. They're trying to wrong-foot Obama by goading him into refusing to consider running with Hillary. That would make him look like he's less concerned about the welfare of the party than Hillary is. The goal is to work on the superdelegates by portraying Hillary as the more reasonable and party-oriented of the two.

  •  Balloons get floated (0+ / 0-)

    To see if people shoot them down.

    If Bill Clinton was the first black president... why can't Obama be the first female president? -- wry twinger, DKos, 5 May '08

    by ogre on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 08:23:42 AM PDT

  •  I like the Daschle quote (0+ / 0-)

    "the person who can serve in the capacity of President should he not be around. She's certainly in that category, but probably a lot of others as well"

    This hardly suggests that there is a good chance of it or that she would be the best choice. Obama of course needs to remain open to the possibility. It's a very close race and if the delegate math is tight he may need to accept Hillary as VP in order to unify the party and bring everyone together before the convention.

    The problem is that the same factors which make Hillary not the best candidate to match up against McCain in November probably make her not the best VP candidate for improving Obama's chances.  A better choice would be someone who shores up Obama in any of Missouri, Virginia, Ohio, or  Florida, or who helps out west in Colorodo and New Mexico. Those are the key battlegrounds.  And Hillary doesn't do much to help the ticket in places like these.

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