Daily Kos

"...At the Expense of Everything Else"

Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 09:40:50 PM PDT

Cross-posted on MyDD.

Merry Christmas, John McCain!

Well, in a year where all of the signs were pointing to decisive Democratic victory in the November general election, the progressive movement is imploding, deadlocked on how to handle controversial primary votes cast in Michigan and Florida and bickering over controversial comments made by 1984 Democratic Vice Presidential candidate Geraldine Ferraro.

Be you a Clinton partisan or an Obama partisan, the headlines should be making you very nervous right now.  The racial tensions that exploded after the New Hampshire and buried at the Nevada debate have exploded again and neither campaign seems likely to back down.

The cycle of offense and apology — on racial grounds and others — has become a familiar feature of this campaign. But both campaigns swerved deliberately from the pattern Tuesday, choosing confrontation over delicate compromise.

Ms. Ferraro's resignation from Hillary Clinton's finance committee, a largely ceremonial post for major fundraisers, is unlikely to end the turmoil, especially with progressive MSNBC commentator Keith Olbermann making a special comment on Hillary's campaign on tonight's show.  From the Huffington Post:

It's a significant moment, because it marks the first time a full-throated special comment will have been directed exclusively at a Democrat. Not just the Democrats, whom Olbermann accused along with the Republicans last May for failing to do anything to get the country out of Iraq, but one particular Democrat — a Democrat whom, incidentally, he did a special comment defending in July after the Defense Dept. sent her a letter accusing her of facilitating anti-U.S. propaganda by demanding to know whether the administration had conceived of an exit strategy from Iraq.

I stopped downloading Olbermann's podcasts last summer because I felt that his angry tone was not good for the progressive movement and I often felt negative emotions--anger, frustration, grief--after listening to his shows.  This will have the effect of driving away even more Clinton supporters from his show and further dividing progressive activists.  

As if the racial tensions were enough, the momentum toward re-votes in Michigan and Florida has come to a halt, with the Florida Democratic Congressional Delegation declaring its opposition to any kind of re-vote:

"Our House delegation is opposed to a mail-in campaign or any redo of any kind," the state's Democratic House delegation said in a statement sent to CNN by the office of Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

Senator Clinton would prefer to seat the delegations in their current form, which would net her between 56 and 111 delegates, depending on how the uncommitted delegates in Michigan are allocated.  That said, she is willing to hold new primary contests.  The Obama campaign, however, appears to be opposed to holding new primary contests, perhaps preferring to split the delegates 50-50:

Mr. Obama’s did not spell out his Plan B, but he said that any revote would be problematic, particularly if conducted by mail in Michigan and Florida, two states that have never conducted a mail-in election. He said he would like to see the Michigan and Florida delegations seated in an "equitable" way, without spelling out what that would mean.

Obama advisers declined on Wednesday to say what a fair distribution of delegates would look like but have floated a plan to apportion the delegates 50-50, wiping out any advantage that Mrs. Clinton might have gained from the votes in January and essentially making the two states meaningless in the nomination fight.

As I wrote a few days ago, polling data has made it very clear that, despite Senator Obama's belief to the contrary, he will not automatically receive Senator Clinton's supporters should he be the nominee, especially if she goes down under heavy fire of racial accusations and unresolved votes in the Florida and Michigan.  Polling data in Michigan has made it very clear that the core supporters of both candidates have no compunction about voting for John McCain should their candidate lose.

If Clinton wins the nomination, just 50% of Obama voters say they would be even somewhat likely to vote for her against John McCain. Thirty-five percent (35%) say they are Not at All Likely to vote for Clinton in the general election.

On the other hand, if Obama wins the nomination, just 52% of Clinton voters would be even somewhat likely to vote for him against John McCain. Twenty-five percent (25%) say they are Not at All Likely to vote for Obama in the general election.

Racial politics.  Illegitimate elections.  With the progressive movement spiraling toward a train wreck, I can’t help but recall the words of Simon Bolivar, the South American revolutionary whose movement helped to free a continent from colonial rule, only to it slip into the chaos of civil conflict:

"We have achieved our independence at the expense of everything else."

With the wind at our backs, with the progressive movement on the verge of a great victory in the fall, are we going to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?  Is the nominee going to clinch the nomination at the expense of alienating a crucial part of the progressive coalition?

It’s time for the adults to intervene to prevent this tragedy from unfolding.  Al Gore, it’s time to pick up the phone.

Tags: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, racism, Florida, Michigan, John McCain (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 53 comments

  •  This is not about blame! (10+ / 0-)

    This is about how to prevent disaster in November.

    Another proud Clintonista opposing John McCain.

    by psychodrew on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 09:41:22 PM PDT

  •  don't either but I was (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    socratic, slksfca, kat68

    expecting another trollish type Hillary diary, this one is not.

    After Obama's eighth straight victory, Penn told reporters: "Winning Democratic primaries is not a qualification or a sign of who can win the general election.

    by nevadadem on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 09:45:38 PM PDT

  •  Clinton and Obama had both better hope... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    SuperCameron

    ...that whoever is ultimately the nominee, he/she doesn't need independent voters to win the general election.

  •  If you mean Al Gore picks up the phone (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    highacidity

    and tells Clinton it's over, I completely agree. If you mean have the white man swoop in and save the party from the women and the minority by becoming the nominee, then I disagree.

  •  Relax ... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    SuperCameron

    It's just politics.

    This is getting all the crap out in the open, so when McCain tries it, it will have already been tried.  It'll be old news.  

    The Convention is light-years away.  

    Have some faith.  

    •  I hope you're right. (0+ / 0-)

      I've just never sensed so much bitterness.

      Another proud Clintonista opposing John McCain.

      by psychodrew on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 09:59:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We've never had these candidates. (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Inky99

        Face it...we're trying to put not one but two "firsts" in office at the same time.

        It would be different if it was a Latino man or woman and a Black man or woman, but we've got a different race opposing a different gender.

        That's bound to cause some division, and campaign tactics aren't helping right now.

        Each is pulling passionate support from two completely different constituencies...it's not like we're trying to divide the male vote among 2 male candidates, or vise versa.

        Inevitably, you're going to have divides.  A good chunk of HRC voters are voting for her because of Bill's time in the White House, and a good chunk are women.

        A good chunk of Obama's supporters are young and inexperienced, or black.

        We're not dividing the electorate among two "sames" and it is causing a lot of bitterness.

        We...join arm in arm and decide we are going to remake this country block by block, precinct by precinct, county by county, state by state - that's what hope is.

        by DemocraticOz on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 10:04:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Seems to me (0+ / 0-)

          like there's a lot of first-timers here, or at least people who haven't really paid that much attention in the past.

          People are getting AWFULLY wound up!  

          •  It's not just the younger generation (0+ / 0-)

            Though they're the most vocal.

            My neighbor, who is a 71 year old woman, thinks the world will end if Hillary is not the next president.

            I've explained to her about differences in policy, and how either of them would make a pretty damned good leader (especially compared to Johnny McVain) but she won't listen.

            She hasn't voted in an election since 1984, and she won't vote this year if HRC isn't at the top of the ticket.

            We...join arm in arm and decide we are going to remake this country block by block, precinct by precinct, county by county, state by state - that's what hope is.

            by DemocraticOz on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 10:22:07 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Sure you have. (0+ / 0-)

        Bonesman A vs Bonesman B, 2004.

      •  Politics ain't pretty (0+ / 0-)

        and this seems pretty basic, to me.  I've been watching these things since 1980.  

        As long as it doesn't go all the way into the convention, we're golden.

        If HRC is stupid enough to take this to the convention, well, then it's time for some tough action.  

        She CANNOT take this to the convention.  CAN NOT.  

        But for now I think it's actually helping.  The headlines are all about the Dems.  McCain's getting almost no press.

        •  I have seen nasty elections. (0+ / 0-)

          And the Dean-Gephardt fight in 2004 was pretty ugly, but these seems much worse.

          I hope this doesn't go to the convention, but there is another thing to consider.  If Obama is the nominee, he won't get all of Hillary's supporters if they think he played dirty or if the party leaders try to push her out of the race when she still had a chance.

          Another proud Clintonista opposing John McCain.

          by psychodrew on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 11:44:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  polling isn't that scary right now (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    limpidglass

    people have short political memories. I can barely recall what everyone thought were earth shattering blowups pre-Iowa. that said HRC has really helped out McCain with her several times repeated claim that Obama has no experience compared to McCain. I personally think one ought be drawn and quartered for such an offense, but that's just me. Given time, I think people will calm down, as we focus on aiming our attacks at McCain, and 4-8 more years of Bush policy. Polls are just a current snapshot of opinion. that said, I'm set in stone.

    ...and some marched, and some sat-in, and some were beaten, and some went to jail, and some died for freedom's cause. That's what hope is. -Barack Obama

    by phukhotfashion on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 09:58:07 PM PDT

  •  As per the Clinton plan (0+ / 0-)

    This is EXACTLY what Clinton wants.

    She knows she cannot get the nomination, she doesn't want it in 2008 -- the party is now too divided for her to win (and I am sad to say, I fear for Obama to win).

    Clinton wants to be president.  Period.

    Step back 1 month ago if you would.  Things were relatively civil, but the Feb calendar looked grim for her.  At the end of February, she no longer could win.  She knew that even with the victories she got in OH and TX, she would not get the nomination.

    If Obama got the nomination, he would likely beat McCain.  That means it would be 2016 (he is a 1 term president) or 2020 (two term and the vp choses not to run or she runs again the vp) before she would be able to run again.

    She would not likely have a chance then.

    So she has two options:  give up her God Given Right to Get Her Turn or make sure Obama loses to McCain and she can run against McCain (or IMHO someone else because I think McCain will serve no more than 4 years) in 2012.

    So she is purposely destroying Obama so he will be so damaged he cannot beat McCain.

    Party and country be damned.  ITS. HER. TURN.

    I wonder though, at what point does she push it too far and eliminate her chances at 2012 if Obama loses to McCain.

    I for one, will NEVER vote for her.   EVER.  There is a good chance that I will be so fucking sick of politics as usual I may not vote again for a long time.  Not until this batch of insider, entitled politicians are dead and buried.

    I would have, up until the last 4 weeks when she convinced me otherwise.

    America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. -- Abraham Lincoln

    by dad2jac on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 10:43:33 PM PDT

  •  Why is HRC a party rules scofflaw? (0+ / 0-)

    The Democratic organizations in both Michigan (my home state) and Florida decided to thumb their nose at the DNC and its agreed-on primary and caucus schedule. They tried to bluff four aces, and lost.

    That should have been the end of it. But no! Her Entitledness, Hillary Rodham Clinton, reopened the issue of Florida and Michigan after she fell flat in Iowa and South Carolina. The timing of her "discovery" of "voting rights" in those two states gives off a ripe odor.

    Rules are rules, Hillary. Even if you think you're next in the royal line of succession.

    John McCain's Straight Talk Express runs on fossil fuels.

    by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 10:54:41 PM PDT

    •  Even if you don't like HRC (0+ / 0-)

      you have to want her supporters of BO is the nominee.  If this impasse with FL and MI is not resolved, and BO wins a close nomination race, Hillary's supporters will feel robbed and many of them will stay home in November.

      Even if you don't like Hillary, that alone, should be motivation for resolving this conflict.

      Another proud Clintonista opposing John McCain.

      by psychodrew on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 11:28:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  False choice (0+ / 0-)

        Bottom line: you want the Michigan and Florida situation resolved on her terms. Basically, your argument is "Give Hillary what she wants or the party gets it."

        No sale.

        John McCain's Straight Talk Express runs on fossil fuels.

        by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 11:44:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's not what I said. (0+ / 0-)

          I said it needs to be resolved.  It needs to be resolved to the satisfaction of both candidates and their supporters.

          Look, I perceive that there is a widely held assumption amongst Obama supporters that Hillary's supporters will come home in November because she draws her support from the party's based.  I believe that that is not true.  If her supporters think that she was robbed or pushed out of the race by party leaders, they will stay home.

          The same holds true with the Obama supporters.  If MI and FL are shoved down Obama's throat, and he loses the nomination, Obama's supporters will stay home.

          The party needs to negotiate a fair settlement while there is still time or somebody's supporters are going to be pissed off in November and we can't afford that this year.  There's too much at stake.

          Another proud Clintonista opposing John McCain.

          by psychodrew on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 11:49:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  For all the doom and gloom... (0+ / 0-)

    The Hillary-vs-McCain and Obama-vs-McCain poll numbers don't seem to be budging.

    Now, with that being said, it's indisputably true that:

    (1) Hillary hypocritically demanded that Obama completely reject someone because they happened to be associated with Louis Farrakahn, but refused to do the same thing when one of her own campaign staff made racially insensitive comments.

    (2) Hillary hypocritically lied about NAFTA.

    (3) Hillary cannot possibly win the pledged delegate or popular vote (unless, of course, she behaves like a Third World dictator and changes the rules for the election in mid-stride in order to count votes in which her opponent wasn't even on the ballot).

    So, yeah, I totally agree that it's time for Hillary to suspend her presidential campaign, endorse Obama, and allow the party to unify and focus on November.

  •  Why would not seating FL and MI... (0+ / 0-)

    be such a problem for Clinton supporters? Of course, I can see why you'd want them seated as is. It would mean more delegates for your candidate. Obama supporters don't want them seated for the same reason, but for us there's another issue too: the issue of justice.

    The party ruled that those delegates would not be seated, and both candidates showed their support for that decision by pledging not to participate in either primary. Why would it make sense reverse that decision now? Also, Clinton kept to her pledge less scrupulously than Obama (who didn't even appear on the MI ballot), and she probably picked up a few extra delegates as a result. If Clinton wins the nomination through the seating of those delegates, it will look to a lot of Obama people (myself included) that she connived and cheated her way to victory. That would make it more difficult to support her in the GE.

    What I'd like to know is why not seating them would produce similar anger and disgust on the Clinton side.

Permalink | 53 comments