One more plea on the Wright nonsense

Apologies if this is more of a comment than a diary, but I wanted to make a fairly simple point about this whole deal.

Does being a member of a group force you to subscribe to anything it stands for, or anything it's leaders or members stand for?

No, of course not, that's patently ridiculous. Hell, I support Obama but I reserve the right to distance myself from some of his positions while wholeheartedly supporting him. Wouldn't you?

I support the Democratic party, but I frequently disagree with its positions and actions, as well as those of many of its leaders. Do I have to answer for them because I support them?

I support my family -- does that mean I support every one of their choices and everything they've ever done?

I support unions, and yet sometimes I think they're boneheaded and counter-productive.

I support Hillary Clinton -- not for President, sure -- but I disagree with the way she's run her campaign.

I support the state of Israel, and yet I vehemently disagree with many of their actions and stances -- if I were running for office would I have to answer for everything they've done?

So what's the deal with Rev. Wright?

Obama supports him even though he doesn't agree with everything the man says. What's the big deal? He actively renounces the parts of the man's opinions he disagrees with. This is, in the end, a passing story. It will end and leave very little trace on people who were not hyper-prepared to seize on it in the first place: Republicans and people who are hoping to find something to disqualify Obama and give the nomination to Clinton.

What I take away from this is that the Obama campaign truly is a different kind of campaign. I too have frequently been shocked at how uncombative Obama has been, and yet time and time again he's walked away looking stronger. Look at the 3am phone call nonsense. He basically ignored it, is now further ahead in the delegate count than when the ad first aired, and has addressed all the charges cooly and reasonably -- and as the exit polls showed in Mississippi, people think he'd be a stronger Commander in Chief than Hillary.

Frankly, Obama's instincts have earned my respect. I am continually impressed how I get it wrong and he gets it right. Ultimately it may be a failing gambit -- this country may not be ready for adult politics (the Clinton campaign certainly doesn't seem to think it is), but I'm willing to put my faith in the Obama campaign because they've earned it. The Wright thing will blow over -- and perhaps it's even disarmed the issue for McCain to rehash. That's my take.

•  Tips for the Obama campaign

  I swear I will hand them all over.

  by nussbaumski on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:05:59 PM PDT

•  According to a current

  diary on the rec list, Obama posted a blog at Huffington Post addressing the issue, and he's going on Hannity & Colmes to cut it off at the source.

  by indiemcemopants on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:09:08 PM PDT

  •  oh wow, he is going into the bowels of hell...

    may god be with him...

    by Statusquomustgo on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:10:21 PM PDT

    •  Exactly!

      I'm nervous about it, but apparently that's where this story originated, so he's literally going to the source of it to denounce it.

      by indiemcemopants on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:11:11 PM PDT

      •  silly string Hannity until he can't move...lol

        by Statusquomustgo on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:13:31 PM PDT

  •  H & C

    That's interesting... I wouldn't have expected that, I'll be interested to see it.

    by nussbaumski on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:11:18 PM PDT

    •  Yeah apparently

      the original story broke there.

      by indiemcemopants on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:12:08 PM PDT

  •  Bill Clinton....

    was dogged for going on Limbaugh. Double standards.

    by leftbird on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:17:23 PM PDT

    •  Did Bill go on

      Limbaugh to cut off a rumor Limbaugh started?

      Honest question. I don't remember that incident and I wasn't one of the people criticizing him.

      by indiemcemopants on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:19:31 PM PDT

      •  no to get rethugs in TX to vote for Hillary...

        by Statusquomustgo on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:20:28 PM PDT

        •  I thought Obama was okay with...

          "rethugs" voting for him.

          by leftbird on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:25:53 PM PDT

          •  again, bad comparison

            Obama wants the support of Republicans, not their empty votes. He wants them to come on board with his agenda, not cynically vote for him to undermine the Democratic primary process.

            by nussbaumski on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:28:10 PM PDT

            •  Is Obama a mind reader....

              How's he going to know the difference. I think Obama will take whatever vote regardless of the reason; same with Hillary.

              by leftbird on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:31:17 PM PDT

              •  no there was a different mind set there

                by Statusquomustgo on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:34:20 PM PDT

              •  seriously?

                he's not, and he doesn't need to, it will all come out in the wash of the GE

                the point is, who does he appeal to?

                RL is asking people to vote for Hillary who do not support her (if they can "stomach" it)

                BO is asking Americans to vote for him if they support him, regardless of their party affiliation

                by nussbaumski on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:35:11 PM PDT

                •  Those people that say...

                  they're republican and vote for Obama now, will vote for McCain in the GE.

                  by leftbird on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:43:10 PM PDT

          •  the rethugs that would only vote for her in the

            primary but don't have any intention of
            voting for her in the general.

            the republicans for Obama plan
            to vote for him in the general too.

            by Statusquomustgo on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:32:53 PM PDT

      •  Not sure; just remember he was on...

        IMO, it doesn't matter what the reason is. There's a lot of media outlets to choose from.

        by leftbird on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:23:16 PM PDT

    •  Bill Clinton went on Limbaugh to get Republicans

      to vote for Hillary as part of Limbaugh's plan to fuck with the Democratic Primaries.

      Obama is going to go man-to-man with the shitbags who are spewing crap about him.

      There is a big difference between the two events.

      by Mad Kossack on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:21:00 PM PDT

      •  Actually I'm wondering if he did.

        I heard this too, but then later I heard what was played that day was actually a taped interview done earlier.

        (I'm not saying he didn't do the interview, I'm saying the timing of it being played was up to the Limbaugh team, not that BC went on at that moment in time live.)

        by drbloodaxe on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:39:24 PM PDT

        •  according to TPM, it was for real

          it was done with a substitute host Mark Davis.  Probably because Bill wanted to reach Limbaugh's audience and Limbaugh was smart enough to know that having Bill's voice and his own co-mingling through the electronic airwaves would cause some sort of disturbance in the force that might cause Armageddon.

          by Mad Kossack on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:51:32 PM PDT

          •  Bill did not

            Bill went on Davis' morning show. Davis was sub for Rush in the afternoon. Davis played the tape of his interview with Bill from his morning show. Those are the facts. It's highly unlikely Bill even knew Davis was going to play the tape on Rush's show. Not a Clinton fan, but let's stay with the facts.

            by VClib on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:54:15 PM PDT

            •  Ah

              So it was the same day after all, but intended for a different audience.  Thanks for the clarification.

              by drbloodaxe on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:58:58 PM PDT

    •  Clinton went on Limbaugh

      the day of an election and the day after Rushbo said this:

      "Wouldn’t you love to cream Hillary though...why are you so afraid of her? Look at how ineptly she has campaigned against Obama," Limbaugh responded to one listener who said she wanted to see Clinton out of the race immediately. "I’m asking people to cross over, and if they can stomach it and I know it’s a difficult thing to do, vote for Clinton," he also told Ingraham Friday. "But it will sustain this soap opera, and it’s something I think we need and it’ll be fun, too."

      by Bruce HB Lee on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:21:18 PM PDT

•  Obama is reacting strongly

  Post on HuffPo and upcoming appearance on Hannity and Colmes.

  by Catte Nappe on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:09:36 PM PDT

  •  Hey do you know

    WHEN exactly he'll be on?

    I'm gonna have to watch it (unfortunately.)

    by indiemcemopants on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:10:29 PM PDT

    •  I don't know if I can tolerate that

      shit on my tee-vee... might make an exception
      for Obama.  :)

      by Statusquomustgo on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:12:17 PM PDT

    •  I'm going to wait until some kind

      person posts it tonight-thanking whoever in advance

      by VA Breeze on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:16:44 PM PDT

      •  Will it be

        tonight's show?

        by indiemcemopants on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:20:07 PM PDT

        •  Reportedly, yes

          by Catte Nappe on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:27:39 PM PDT

          •  By the way

            if you want to read a hilarious thread in the (many) comments on that recommended diary, go look: http://www.dailykos.com/...

            by indiemcemopants on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:38:57 PM PDT

      •  According to the diary on the rec list

        CNN and MSNBC will also get a shot at him

        MAJOR UPDATE: Obama apparently to go on Hannity and Colmes to discuss this, as well as CNN and MSNBC.

        by Catte Nappe on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:29:37 PM PDT

    •  The show

      9 PM Eastern. When during the show, don't know. Most shows "tease" a guest like this until the very last segment.

      by Catte Nappe on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:27:21 PM PDT

      •  Thank you!

        Thanks for the information... while I'm horrified that I have to now watch I'm hoping Obama gets some good soundbytes out there, and I'm hoping he says things in a way that will at least be DIFFICULT to distort (it's never IMPOSSIBLE with Fox news.)

        by indiemcemopants on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:33:19 PM PDT

    •  I just heard tweety say he was going to be

      on Olberman tonight....

      hmmmm very interesting...

      by Statusquomustgo on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:37:29 PM PDT

•  *Gore sigh*

  Does being a member of a group force you to subscribe to anything it stands for, or anything it's leaders or members stand for?

  For purposes of running for prez, yes.  

  It buggars the imagination that Barack thought he could slide this guy by for an presidential election cycle.  As Demos, we should all feel fortunate this has come out sooner than later.  There's a good chance it will be too old to be of use to the 'pugs in September and October.

  by HobbyWizard on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:11:53 PM PDT

  •  I think the diarist might feel differently if...

    the "group" was the KKK

    by leftbird on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:20:08 PM PDT

    •  mmm....

      the diarist thinks it's a false analogy.

      there are plenty of good groups that I would happily support but disagree with. I could list them for you for hours. i wouldn't support the kkk for any reason, ever. they are fundamentally a group i'm opposed to.

      by nussbaumski on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:23:23 PM PDT

      •  Personally I wouldn't go to this....

        fruitcake church....but that's just my opinion.

        by leftbird on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:27:51 PM PDT

        •  That's fine,

          no one is asking you to.

          by nussbaumski on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:28:48 PM PDT

    •  the KKK loves your analogy

      they always paint themselves as nothing more than the white equivalent of a civil rights group. David Duke even formed the National Association for the Advancement of White People to take advantage of the sort of analogy that you are promoting.

      I think it is a false analogy, unless you're saying that Rev. Wright burns crosses on people's lawns and sponsors lynching parties.

      by Mad Kossack on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:32:47 PM PDT

  •  Well

    we're (mostly) Democrats, aren't we? Joe Lieberman was in our party not too long ago, and Jim Marshall still is.

    by expatriatedjerseyan on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:26:47 PM PDT

•  Hell, I don't agree with all

  of the things my husband says but I'll be damned if I'm getting a divorce over it.

  by nolalily on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:15:50 PM PDT

  •  Amen nolalily!!!

    besides, to me, there was a grain of
    truth to what he had to say.

    by Statusquomustgo on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:18:44 PM PDT

    •  Me, too. n/t

      by nolalily on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:20:47 PM PDT

    •  Interesting that

      Tweety and Buchanan want to debate whether there's some truth in what Geraldine ferraro said about Obama and being black but no one is entertaining the idea that there might be a grain of truth in what REv. Wright is saying.

      by nolalily on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 04:04:51 PM PDT

      •  I know.... and there is much truth there

        last time I looked this country
        is run by a bunch of rich white men.
        Tweety and Buchanan are perfect examples
        of the that very thing.

        Geraldine Ferraro was probably the only one
        that could have gotten away with saying
        what she said just because she is a woman.  

        I have been to diverse churches and have seen
        pastors like Rev. Wright preach.
        It ain't pretty some times, but the
        truth never is pretty is it.

        by Statusquomustgo on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:12:07 PM PDT

•  Think you are underestimating

  I spoke with a family member last night - mild Clinton supporter, but very positive on Obama too.  Also a very high information voter -- Sunday morning shows, NYT, etc.   And has worked on campaigns before.   He saw this as a potentially very big deal.  He was uncomfortable with Obama's association with Wright.  Thought it was key for Obama to come out strongly to distance himself from wright.    He spoke about voting for McCain over Obama if this wasn't addressed.   Not sure he would actually do that, but the concern was genuine.

  by ActivatedbyBush on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:16:11 PM PDT

  •  Good to learn another perspective

    personally I didn't think it was a big deal-maybe living in the same area as Pat Robertson has made me immune

    by VA Breeze on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:22:32 PM PDT

    •  Hopefully it's made you stronger :-)

      by ActivatedbyBush on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:54:33 PM PDT

  •  i agree

    I totally get that sense too, and yet i think that it will be nothing more than a passing fad.

    For instance, if Hillary were the nominee, how many people would move their vote to McCain based on Gerry Feraro's comments? There was a firestorm, but short of it being incorporated into a larger narrative it will fade as soon as it's out of focus.

    What Obama needs to worry about is writing his own narrative and not allowing the other side to paint him into a radical because of this. That, I agree, would be a problem, but I don't think it hinges entirely on how he responds to this particular incident.

    by nussbaumski on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:26:17 PM PDT

•  Balony

  GD the USA won't fly in the GE.  He needs to get out in front, renounce, reject, etc. least he appear the biggest hypocrite.

  by flashman on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:32:47 PM PDT

  •  This is

    what he says:

    When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign.

    That sentence is going to get a full anal, IMHO.

    by bugscuffle on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:36:39 PM PDT

    •  Not Good. Not Good At All

      by flashman on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:39:15 PM PDT

  •  He already did the full monty

    of rejection and denial in the strongest language.  It's diaried elsewhere on here today and blogged over at Huffington's.

    by drbloodaxe on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:43:12 PM PDT

•  Even if he "rejects" this...

  IMO, damage done.

  by leftbird on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:36:23 PM PDT

•  Obama will probably weather the

  Jeremiah Wright remarks storm, but it is at least a sucker punch if not a body blow.

  As I said elsewhere, better now then October.

  by slw0606 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:36:31 PM PDT

•  It's put to bed.

  He did the whole denounce and reject thing and it's up as a blog at Huffington's, I do believe, and diaried elsewhere here as well.

  by drbloodaxe on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:37:15 PM PDT

  •  yeah, right....

    This isn't going away; ever.

    by leftbird on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:40:21 PM PDT

•  Obama is going to be on Countdown tonight...

  Olbermann is a supporter, maybe he can throw a couple of softballs and help Obama out.

  by leftbird on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:37:59 PM PDT

  •  Ugh no.

    Olbermann should NOT throw softballs.  That would be damaging to both their reps.

    And I'm not sure Olbermann is a supporter.  Just because he criticized HRC's campaign doesn't mean he's thrown in his lot.

    by drbloodaxe on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:41:15 PM PDT

•  How do you square

  I didn't know about these speeches and I was never in attendance during these speeches with:

  You call the man your spiritual advisor and name one of your books from one of his speeches. You've obviously been paying attention to his sermons. Are we to believe these things were only said on the weeks you missed being in church? It defies logic.

  by palpatine316 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 03:21:22 PM PDT

  •  He said that

    as soon as he found out about them he put his denunciation in the public record.  All the balanced stories about this have noted that Obama renounced the statements previously.

    Look he is trying to walk the fine line of being against the words but loving the man, and all of us with flawed family members can understand that i think.

    by Michael Lawrence Gallagher on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 03:40:52 PM PDT

    •  But he's not a family member

      Look this pastor has had multiple sermons that are heated. Let's say Obama missed one or two. Did nobody in the church tell him or Michelle about them? People who are regular church goers usually are involved with the church and talk to other church members during the week. It seems likely somebody would have told him or Michelle. At that point he would have to have decided whether to continue attending and giving money to a church where hatred was spewed. That's judgment and that's what Obama supporters have been telling us is his salient feature.

      Further, most church-inclined people showed up the weekend after 9/11. Why wasn't he there that week?

      Seems like Obama's judgment is more than a bit questionable.

      by palpatine316 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 04:08:32 PM PDT

•  Hagee Hagee Hagee..is he still a Muslim?

  Why did Hagee disappear and the focus turn to BHO?
  Does this mean that BHO is still a Muslim? I can't keep up with the craziness!

  Our economy is crumbling, the Fed loaned 200 billion to the banks who gave mortgages as collateral!!! The same mortgages that are not worth a dime. Gas is $111 barrel and people are burning their houses down because they are losing them.

  If this is what it took for you to decide to not support BHO then that is good for him. There is more pain to come in this country and a speech by a pastor is going to pale in comparison when you don't have a job and can't feed your kid.

  Can we focus???? How many children died in your city today from senseless violence?  Now that is something that matters, but it is way more productive to talk about a speech and that is why our country is dying and we all sit like frogs in a slowly boiling pot.

  Human beings are flawed and have a tendency to embrace evil, can we stop pretending that we are living in an oasis. Google Lynchings and Holocaust if you want a refresher.

  by kiki236 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 03:41:33 PM PDT