Gen. David Petraeus debates himself

David Petraeus, February 14, 2008:

The passage of the three laws today showed that the Iraqi leaders are now taking advantage of the opportunity that coalition and Iraqi troopers fought so hard to provide.

David Petraeus, March 13, 2008:

Petraeus, who is preparing to testify to Congress next month on the Iraq war, said in an interview that "no one" in the U.S. and Iraqi governments "feels that there has been sufficient progress by any means in the area of national reconciliation," or in the provision of basic public services...

Petraeus said he and U.S. Ambassador Ryan C. Crocker had "repeatedly noted that it's crucial that the Iraqis exploit the opportunities that we and our Iraqi counterparts have fought so hard to provide them."

In one month's time we learn that the "surge" has both succeeded and failed in advancing national reconciliation in Iraq. Remind me again, why is it that the traditional media pretends that General Petraeus is infallible?

•  It's That Roman Last Name..

  it looks so good in print that it makes them feel all comforted and warm.

  by bincbom on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:29:50 AM PDT

  •  How'd that work out for the Romans?

    n/t

    by proudprogressiveCA on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:30:49 AM PDT

    •  To answer your question,

      ...why is it that the traditional media pretends that General Petraeus is infallible?

      Because they would rather feed the viewers a man in a uniform than the usual prattle from Bush, who can't say sensibly what the general will say with gravitas.

      by SueDe on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:40:10 AM PDT

      •  We now have a rule...

        Respect the troops to the point that we can't say anything even so awful as "you're wrong."  Don't you see?  Support your infallible troops!!

        by LoganMorrow on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:43:51 AM PDT

        •  Adm Fallon: "Ass-Kissing Little Chicken Shit"

          That's Fallon's take on Petraeus. Go google "Fallon Petraeus" and you'll find multiple refs. I think Petraeus is starting to pucker up to kiss Congress's ass because he sees which way the wind is blowing. He's not debating himself, he's just lining up some new butt cheeks.

          by RUKind on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:22:06 AM PDT

    •  the barbarian tribes moved to the periphery

      of the empire so the generals/emperors had to pay them tribute, first to not sack Gaul and then to serve in the military.
      Wait a minute, was Anbar a Roman province too?

      by entlord1 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:55:28 AM PDT

      •  Anbar is a province of about

        150,000 people and three million sheep.  I suspect that the military planners looked at that land, declared it vacant and decided to place air bases there.  It probably didn't occur to them that the reason the people are classified as "tribes" is because they are largely nomadic and "drive" their flocks.  Nomads are a pain to bureaucrats who want people to stay in one place and be easily counted.  There's a similar problem in much of north Africa where people are accustomed to traversing the land at will, following their flocks as they graze and look for water.
        Clearly, there's a fundamental conflict between nomadic populations and the designation of large plots of land as off-limits.

        You know, "don't fence me in" but "don't fence me out either."

        by hannah on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:10:52 AM PDT

      •  I like the idea

        of Roman soldiers bringing back slaves for the rich. Maybe we can do the same. [snark]

        by realtime on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:32:32 AM PDT

        •  We already are

          except the slaves are domestically produced; no need for immigrants.  

          by entlord1 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:22:29 AM PDT

  •  Petraeus: Man Of Vision/Integrity/Honor/.....

    ....Wisdom/Steadfastness/Resolve/Righteousness/Truthfullness....ad nauseum.

    Davis Petraeus: The Man Who Could No Wrong in American History.

    ~~snark~~

    by frandor55 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:37:54 AM PDT

    •  Until now, of course.

      Now he doesn't know what he's talking about.

      by RickMassimo on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:42:20 AM PDT

  •  Caligula (Little Boots) had a nice Roman

    name, too, but look what happened to him.  (For those who forget, Little Boots directed an obscene jesture at his prefect, so the prefect hauled off and beheaded him.)

    by Ice Blue on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:16:37 AM PDT

  •  Petraeus-Bush surge is working much

    better now that we pay Iraqis to not kill us.

    by realtime on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:34:40 AM PDT

•  Who's winning?

  Oh, I know.......

  Not us

  by proudprogressiveCA on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:30:20 AM PDT

  •  Check out Juan Cole

    for a good rundown on the latest mishaps in Iraq.
    www.JuanCole.com

    by entlord1 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:56:17 AM PDT

•  I'd give them

  six more months to show some progress.

  by JoeW on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:31:20 AM PDT

  •  Very funny

    Which reminds me, I haven't heard too many Friedman Units issued lately, have you?

    by Kestrel on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:38:09 AM PDT

  •  And maybe another 6 months after that

    if they seem to need some final organizational bombing and police help. But then again we should be careful not to tell the Iraqies exactly when we will leave because they might take advantage and celebrate. I think we should give ourselves the option of another 5 years. Oh, wait... maybe a hundred years. Of course, if we opt for a hundred years we will need more money...up front...now.

    by Ma Joad on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:41:51 AM PDT

  •  What is a month?

    We have evolved with our timekeeping so everything is Friedman units.

    by entlord1 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:56:53 AM PDT

    •  According to John McCain

      1 month = 10,000 years.

      by JoeW on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:07:02 AM PDT

      •  So he is a creationist

        Isn't that how the earth got to be 6000 years old?

        by entlord1 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:23:41 AM PDT

  •  The U.S declared independence in 1776 .

    The Articles of Confederation while proposed in 1777 wasn't completed untiil 1781 . Until then the United States didn't exist . Then the Constitution was ratified in 1788 . But Rhode Island didn't ratify until 1790 . The Bill of Rights was added in 1791 . That's a 15 year timeline .

    Now , Iraq was liberated in 2003 . In 2005 they had their first free election in 50 years and a constitution in spite of all efforts to destabilize the country . This Transitional Government was made permanent in 2006 .

    They've passed a budget , the dinar which was practically worthless under Hussien has been restored . Iraq is doing business with its neighbors , exporting food , rebuilding under the guidence of the Army Corp of Engineers . Amnesty given to political prisoners , de-Baathification is occuring , oil revenues are being shared with the provinces although the details of the law have yet to be worked out . Local elections in the provinces are in the pipeline but details are being worked out . They are not doing too bad for a government that is 2 years old .

    I think it is unrealistic and unhelpfull , considering our own history , to be making hysterical judgements on a fledgeling democracy. every few months .

    by livetotell on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:01:09 AM PDT

    •  The US declared independence;

      Iraq lost it's independence.  You take it from there.

      by rhutcheson on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:52:30 AM PDT

    •  boy are you confused

      You're comparing a war of independence plus nearly 7 years of a moderately effective confederation, punctuated by a few monetary disputes and minor tax rebellions, plus a few years of amending a much stronger federal government -- to a bloody civil war that has ethnically cleansed large parts of the country, displaced more than 2 million and killed perhaps another million, trashed the infrastructure, and invited foreign revolutionaries to commit mayhem??? All of that under foreign occupation?

      chiz

      by smintheus on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 12:29:11 PM PDT

•  So we've given up on Friedman units already?

  Now we're employing the "making things up as we go along" strategy on one month timescales.

  by DH from MD on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:31:45 AM PDT

  •  A month is a long time in politics...

    ...when nothing new is happening.

    by smintheus on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:34:20 AM PDT

    •  A day is a long time on cable news

      ...and, when nothing new is happening, a month is geologic time.

      by Tabula Rasa on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:59:50 AM PDT

•  Some may not like this, but...

  I still have no problem calling him General Betrayus for precisely this type of double talk. He's a puppet, and in my book, puppets betray us now as they always have.

  by Kronos Blue on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:32:26 AM PDT

  •  i like it!

    by timbuck on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:35:52 AM PDT

  •  Use it because people want to censor it

    It sounds to me as if Petraeus is probably a decent man in an awful job, but the idea that Daily Kos people or others should be attacked in Congress for simply calling a public figure a name is creepy.

    If HRC or Obama called Petraeus "Betrayus," that might  be out of line, but for ordinary civilians to call him that is no different from Bill Clinton's critics calling Bill "The Philanderer in Chief," or something like that.

    It's not nice, and it might not be fair, but it's politics. That's why we have the First Amendment.

    by sclminc on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:43:51 AM PDT

  •  The thing is ...

    like any alcoholic (see Bush) or alcoholic enabler, he's left the wiggle room.

    Petraeus, who is preparing to testify to Congress next month on the Iraq war, said in an interview that "no one" in the U.S. and Iraqi governments "feels that there has been sufficient progress by any means in the area of national reconciliation," or in the provision of basic public services...

    "But that doesn't mean that there WON'T BE sufficient progress as long as we keep killing, dying and spending money our resolve! The past is absolutely no predictor of the future! History will judge!"

    by RickMassimo on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:48:12 AM PDT

  •  I don't see the big deal in it

    It's not like MoveOn called him General Fellateus or something.

    by Hannibal on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:54:40 AM PDT

  •  Except that it conflates his role

    in the whole miserable mess. GWB sacked a generation of generals who refused to be yes men and we are left with the stooges, the toadies, the unready and the incompetent.

    by entlord1 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:58:12 AM PDT

    •  I think Admiral Fallon refered to them

      as Azz Kissers ? Very colorful and very cheeeky of the Admiral and thus he had to be jettisoned also..Its all in the hands of Gawd-Peatrayius-bush..Hold on to your azz..Print More Money from gee w bush MBA..WTF !

      by Johnny Rapture on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:09:17 AM PDT

  •  Heh. bu$hler's minions,

    and Betrayus is one, are highly valued for their ability to present two diametrically opposed stories almost simultaneously.

    Cross your arms at the elbows, lay 'em on your belly, point your fingers and say "They went thataway!" This is their particular talent.

    In one month's time we learn that the "surge" has both succeeded and failed in advancing national reconciliation in Iraq.

    Success = failure or success, failure = success or failure.

    by OleHippieChick on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:29:42 AM PDT

•  General Petraitorous

  Nyaa nyaa Congress and media, going to censure me now?

  by DemDachshund on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:32:33 AM PDT

•  But...

  They took out an ad. In a newspaper!

  by droogie6655321 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:33:19 AM PDT

  •  And they took a drink of water! from a glass!

    You know, I mean, it's just really bad if liberals do it, or do anything else. I'm a pundit or a Bush dog.

    by DemDachshund on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:40:26 AM PDT

•  Why do you hate America?

  When terrorists are hiding under your bed, waiting to kill your family...

  by Ken in MN on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:33:26 AM PDT

  •  Terrorists arriving from under the bed

    my favorite sex fantasy

    by DemDachshund on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:41:05 AM PDT

    •  Look, quick,

      there is one right behind you now.
      Oh, too late... he's gone. You have to look faster.
      Buy some duct tape and tape a mirror onto the side of your head. Code RED...duct tape time. Everyone to Wall Mart.
      Jeeez.

      by Ma Joad on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:45:27 AM PDT

      •  Hell, give everyone in America...

        ...a coupon for $5-worth of duct tape at Wal Mart and let's call it a stimulus package...

        by Ken in MN on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:30:38 AM PDT

    •  Does that require costuming...

      or is the mental imagery enough to get the party started?

      by shaf on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:51:40 AM PDT

•  Seems to me, the media fall over each other

  with Petraeus just for the fact he talks to them, "man to man." No matter if it all a bunch of lies, omissions, and so on. They almost seem starstruck because he is a GENERAL!
  Some in the media don't want to be too critical of him because he might not want to talk to them anymore. Then another network might "scoop" them.

  Tired of all these people getting passes.

  by vassmer on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:35:01 AM PDT

  •  Don't forget GWB in his aviator suit

    and the GOP women swooned. There is something about a military codpiece.

    by entlord1 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:59:11 AM PDT

•  If you argue out of both sides of your mouth one

  of them is right but IOKIYAR.

  by Dave the Wave on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:36:42 AM PDT

•  DARE you question HIM???? TRAITOR!!!

  The views of General David Gaius Julius Claudius Augustus Antonio Banderas Petraeus, who achieved the surgiest surge of all military history, past, present, future, and in any dimension, SHALL NOT BE QUESTIONED!!!

  by el cid on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:36:44 AM PDT

  •  Heh

    My wife and I nearly had to schedule a C-section on the Ides of March.

    Instead, my baby's birthday will be on the anniversary of Caligula's taking the throne.

    It was going to be in Mid-March anyway, and this is an eventful time in Roman history!

    by droogie6655321 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:43:32 AM PDT

  •  LOL, I love the Antonio Banderas

    part of his name.

    by wishingwell on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:09:19 AM PDT

•  the man is an empty uniform, waiting

  for a puppeteer to stick a hand up his backside.

  by timbuck on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:36:52 AM PDT

  •  Well, he is a Republican! n/t

    by Send Rahm a Cheesecake on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:42:32 AM PDT

•  Succeeding while failing

  It's a BushCo hallmark, you know. No matter how big the failure, call it a success and move along. There isn't enough room to catalog how many times they've done this.

  by Kestrel on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:36:59 AM PDT

  •  Rush is already busy on this one

    since some 25% of Americans know how many have died in Iraq it proves that the Iraq war is unimportant to Americans.
    The reason it is unimportant is because the surge worked and we are winning.
    Wonder how much oxy it took to come up with that idea?

    by entlord1 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:03:38 AM PDT

    •  God almighty

      I can just hear him now. And people will buy that, too. Slightly OT but I'm always amazed how brilliant Rush Limbaugh is. People listen to him to get (1) the news and (2) someone's opinion on it, because they're too lazy/ignorant to form their own. Replace Rush with Keith for a week and Bush's 19 point approval drops to 5.

      by Ivey476 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:42:24 AM PDT

      •  He is reading the NYT article

        in a pseudo whiney sort of tone, akin to his McCain imitation. Rush is the intellectual equivilent of fingers drawn along a chalkboard.

        by entlord1 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:25:36 AM PDT

•  So much...

  for the "splurge" as a campaign issue. Yeah, more boots on the ground, bribing insurgents with American tax dollars, building cement walls around entire neighborhoods in Baghdad. Mission "f*cking accomplished.
  MCCain needs to have Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, the whole cabal hung around his neck for the next eight months.

  by goatsage on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:37:08 AM PDT

  •  The bribery doesn't bother me

    Considering all the billions the defense contractors have ripped off from us, I figure the Iraqis are entitled to it.

    by Hannibal on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:58:05 AM PDT

•  You miss the obvious point.

  The Surge is magical.

  It can do different things depending on what is needed politically at the time.

  Like something else I know that causes people to be lazy in some contexts, but makes them violent assassins at other times.

  It just depends on the particular fear-mongering needed at the time.

  Magic Surge.

  Working well.

  by xxdr zombiexx on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:38:39 AM PDT

  •  Well batten down the hatches

    We have pressured al Sadr to the point it appears, from incidents in Kut this week, that segments of the Mahdi Army is no longer taking orders from him but are now operating on their own.

    We have used Israeli tactics and it appears the fracturing your opponents is the one we used with al Sadr. Now we blame him for what his breakaway elements do.

    Kind of like blaming Fatah for Hamas in years past and now blaming Hamas for the activities of a dozen small breakaway groups of extreme radicals. (in the ME that is really extreme)

    by entlord1 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:06:52 AM PDT

•  His statements aren't really inconsistent

  It's possible that there has been some small amount of progress (which I'll concede that it seems that there probably has been), but that it's been far too little, far too late (which I also think it has been).  I continue to think that the only real chance that the Iraqis will get their acts together is if they realize that the only alternative to doing so is anarchy, because we've told them that we'll be gone by a date certain, and we then begin the withdrawal in accordance with that plan.

  by leevank on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:39:10 AM PDT

  •  Amen, leevank!!!

    Announce a timeline, then start bringing troops home.  They'll get their act together to save their own country, even though it will be very messy for a while.  If other countries don't like our leaving, they can send their blood and treasure to work it out.

    by SueDe on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:45:34 AM PDT

    •  I'm not sure they'll get their act together ...

      even then, but I think the past almost 5 years have made it pretty clearly that they WON'T get their act together any other way.  And we simply can't afford, from any standpoint, to stay there indefinitely.

      by leevank on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:38:44 AM PDT

  •  A lawyer's reading

    He never says in the first quote that the efforts of the Iraqi leaders are satisfactory.  

    If you want to condemn him for inconsistency you perhaps could find a pair of quotes where the inconsistency is sharper.  Personally, I would prefer a discussion of the substance of events and policies.

    by tarheelian51 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:29:30 AM PDT

•  Petraeus is infallible because he is a

  baby-killer.

  by Jason Mannino on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:39:41 AM PDT

•  What does a Win in Iraq look like?

  If someone finds out let me know?..

  thanks

  by LYFE on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:40:03 AM PDT

  •  Like the fabulous economy Bush says we have. n/t

    by Send Rahm a Cheesecake on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:44:24 AM PDT

  •  Victory in Iraq look like this

    

    by Dave the Wave on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:48:17 AM PDT

•  Because Bush told them to.

  And now he will tell them not to pay attention to that man behind the uniform.

  by RickMassimo on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:40:21 AM PDT

•  Because he looks like Stan from American Dad? n/t

  by VLSTrade on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:41:47 AM PDT

•  I swear to god

  when I first read the headline for this story I thought it said "Gen. David Petraeus debases himself."

  by Big Tex on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:42:07 AM PDT

  •  General Petraeus argues both sides !

    got the knicknames he has and the mocking he has gotten for his stance and statements in public and private. Nice catch where he contradicts himself 180 degrees  a month apart.

    These goons (the Administration flunkies and Bush himself) says he "relies on his generals on the ground" to tell him what progress is.

    Is he lying or is he delusional? Petraeus can't keep HIS OWN STORY straight.  "Little to no"...or "Significant progress" depends on looking back February or Forward March.

    Is it Bush's hallucinations being repeated or objected to by Petraeus, or didn't he get his memo from Cheney's office about what he was supposed to say?

    Great to see the liars caught out in completely contradicting themselves so closely. They were lying before, and they are lying now.

    The trad media loves petraeus because he (gasp!) speaks in complete sentences. He obviously hasn't done as much cocaine and alcohol as Bush. Other differences? They both are liars of opportunity, errrr, ... none.

    by Pete Rock on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:02:44 AM PDT

  •  Blame Dr. Freud..and bush psychosis..TGIF ! !

    by Johnny Rapture on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:13:55 AM PDT

•  Because he's wearing a uniform?

  Jokes aside, I admire the man for his (however untimely) candor.

  by Five of Diamonds on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:42:36 AM PDT

  •  Candor my ass.

    Nobody, including his boss Fallon, believed any of this crap when it mattered most, back in Magical September.

    (One of the great media outrages of the past year is the complete refusal to report that Petraeus even HAD a boss, much less one who disagreed with him.)

    by RickMassimo on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:51:54 AM PDT

•  Michael Gerson, professional "Christian"

  Has a column mocking Obama for "surrendering to pressure" on Iraq.

  http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

  On the Other hand, McCain has shown "courage" by sending other people to die in Iraq. Also, by taking half a division of U.S. firepower to let him go shopping in Baghdad.

  by HeavyJ on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:43:59 AM PDT

  •  60% of the American People

    Yeah I suppose that's "Surrendering to pressure"

    by JML9999 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:51:43 AM PDT

  •  GWB does not surrender to pressure

    except that he generates himself so wonder how these people are going to like invading Iran?
    Iranian elections are today and the international pressure has succeeded in persuading the mullahs to purge most of the moderates from the election rolls.

    Moderates can hope for some 25% of the available seats and look for hardliners to pick up ground.  

    by entlord1 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:09:15 AM PDT

    •  Yeah, was listening to the BBC on Iran

      Clearly whatever Bush is doing is working beautifully.

      by HeavyJ on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:19:15 AM PDT

      •  Yep like his coup attempt in Colombia or his coup

        attempt against Hamas. A BBC reporter compared it to the Bay of Pigs in terms of efficacy.

        by entlord1 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:27:27 AM PDT

  •  Perhaps instead of 'pressure' he meant 'logic'

    by Stop It on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:24:58 AM PDT

•  George A. Custer If I can make fun of Custer

  I can Make fun of General Petraeus.

  by JML9999 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:48:14 AM PDT

  •  Custer thought he was the expert too

    until he turned around one day and said..

    Holy shit, where did all these Indians come from?

    by wishingwell on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:13:08 AM PDT

•  So we had a surge that was declared to be

  'successful'  largely because of Sadr's cease fire and anyone who had doubts got a Congressional centure,  yet the Iraqis did not do their half of the deal by giving us their oil, ending the violence amongst themselves, or even deciding upon a new flag.  

  All this just in time for Sadr to think about ending his cease fire. That will certainly make the surge look exactly like what it is, a shell game played with American lives.

  by sailmaker on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:48:23 AM PDT

  •  Sadr

    and bribing&Arming the folks in Anbar. Slight hitch in Anbar our "Guy" in Anbar had to be scraped off a wall thanks to a bomb yep really stable in Anbar

    by JML9999 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:54:00 AM PDT

•  Not Sufficient Progress in U.S. either

  in the areas of national reconciliation or the provision of basic public services.

  by smithnewyork on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:48:34 AM PDT

•  Come on, fair is fair.

  I don't see how the two statements contradict.

  No one "feels that there has been sufficient progress by any means" is not the same as saying there has been no progress.  It's saying that nobody believes that the Iraqis are doing enough.

  It's completely fair to criticize the man and to disagree with his assessments, but why misrepresent what he says?

  by dinotrac on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:49:46 AM PDT

  •  You really don't?

    Try re-reading.

    by Stop It on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:50:53 AM PDT

  •  Unfortunately, you're right.

    He's leaving himself and Bush exactly the kind of wiggle room that I described upthread.

    When he testifies to Congress, look for him to say "No, there hasn't been SUFFICIENT progress, but there has been SOME progress. Just enough for us to keep killing, dying and spending money. The remarkable similarity between this assessment and all our previous assessments in the five years of this occupation is just an indicator of how awesomely right we are and always have been."

    by RickMassimo on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:56:21 AM PDT

    •  At which point it is the job of Congress...

      to decide how long they will put up with insufficient progress.  And, frankly, it's not the General's place to decide what is sufficient.  It is the place of the policy-makers.

      Congress is run by Democrats -- who hold all the chairmanships.

      Are you telling me nobody can ask the General exactly WHAT progress is being made?  Nobody can ask why we should expect more progress?

      You guys have pulled heroic duty fingering FISA flaggers.  Do congresscritters get a pass just because it's some big bad old general testifying?

      by dinotrac on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:02:53 AM PDT

      •  That's how it's supposed to work.

        That's not how it's been working. Virtually nobody in Congress actually DOES ask what progress is being made. Everyone is, in fact, intimidated by the big bad ol' general, who's just a humble military man and couldn't possibly be advancing anyone's political agenda.

        As for this site, I think you'll find that the enxt time an Iraq-war supplemental (another BushCo Enron-accounting trick) comes up, similar heroic duty will be performed.

        by RickMassimo on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:16:03 AM PDT

        •  Pretty sad commentary

          >Everyone is, in fact, intimidated by the big bad ol' general

          Pretty sorry, Congress, then, that needs replacing - regardless of Rs and Ds.  Big bad generals work for us, not the other way around.

          by dinotrac on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:30:33 AM PDT

          •  I think you'll find

            Pretty sorry, Congress, then, that needs replacing - regardless of Rs and Ds.  Big bad generals work for us, not the other way around.

            to be the general sentiment around here.

            by RickMassimo on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:43:09 AM PDT

            •  I've noticed that.

              I try to be on my good manners, as I'm a bit of a house guest.  Independent voter, not a Democrat, and a fairly conservative one at that.

              I'm surprised, however, at the degree of overlap, at least in some areas.

              by dinotrac on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:48:46 AM PDT

  •  "have fought so hard to provide them"

    Is his only consistent piece of PR. (Who are we fighting, again?)

    He clearly shades his message on any given day, like a typical politician. Unfortunately he's not a politician - not even a member of the Bush administration. He's supposed to be a professional soldier dealing with reality.

    Go back and look at all of the statements he's made over the past few years that are currently "no longer operative," as Nixon's press secretary would say.

    by HeavyJ on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:01:39 AM PDT

  •  Petraus doesn't understand

    the Iraqis want their country back and they are not going to produce US desired documents on command to hand over the oil industry to the multinationals.

    They are fighting a delaying action, much as happened in Algeria with the French. They are not accomplishing what Petraus wants because they don't want what he wants.

    by entlord1 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:11:08 AM PDT

    •  I believe that's right.

      Whatever else Petraeus is, and in spite of his rank, he is, ultimately, a military man who's been given a mission to accomplish.  

      Even if he is trying to be 100% objective, that has to color his view.  

      It's also why Congressional oversight matters. It is neither disrespectful nor inappropriate to ask hard questions.

      by dinotrac on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:25:47 AM PDT

    •  Do You Want Democracy or Pro-US Iraq?

      This has always been the flaw in the Bush policy -- these are two very different goals and it is hard to see how you get to both by invading the country.

      by smithnewyork on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:51:29 AM PDT

    •  Thank you for brilliantly articulating

      what was floating in my mind and wouldn't come out.

      The Iraqis will gum it to death as they should! until we literally run out of money to be there.

      They're not exactly new to waiting---for thousands of years. Stupid bu$h.

      by OleHippieChick on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:53:09 AM PDT

•  By the way

  President Pissypants is having a fit about freedum and fatigue right now.

  BTW, he's supposed to be talking about the economy.

  by HeavyJ on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:53:07 AM PDT

  •  Freedom fatigues him. n/t

    by OleHippieChick on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:55:16 AM PDT

•  The media thinks he's infallible because

  of all of those wars he won in Kansas, Haiti, Italy, Westpoint, Washington DC, Kentucky, Kuwait (after the war), etc...

  Or maybe because he comes back strong after his injuries of being shot during training, and civilian skydiving...

  by bbrown8370 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:53:45 AM PDT

•  We continue to set the Iraqis up to fail

  After all, to borrow from Kipling, it is the White Man's Burden to have to look after Fuzzy Wuzzy and his benighted kin.

  OTOH the Iraqis have lived under rule of government and law for some 6,000 years. It is amazing that they have not been able to do so for the past six years.

  by entlord1 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:53:52 AM PDT

•  Name power

  Face it. The guy has an awesome name. Anything he says will be taken seriously.

  "Petraeus", I think, is a name that somehow exudes power and authority. It sounds like some sort of ancient Roman Hero. A similar name is "Wolf Blitzer". I mean, that evokes images of some guy who literally goes out into wilderness and beats the hell out of wolves with his bare hands to get a story.

  Then you have "Keith Olbermann" The Olbermann sounds like "Uber-man" the ultimate man.

  An awesome name will get you a long way in the media.

  by greatn on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:54:25 AM PDT

•  What were the 3 laws?

  Were they reconciliation-related?

  by Data Mining Telecom Fascist on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:56:13 AM PDT

  •  nevermind, my bad

    I keep forgetting to link

    by Data Mining Telecom Fascist on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:57:10 AM PDT

•  It's simple, really.

  There are two agendas.  There's a public agenda to have the Iraqis appear to be unified and there's a private agenda to have the Iraqis agree to leasing the U.S. land for the long term use of the bases we've built.  

  The reality is that the Iraqis are unified in wanting the U.S. gone.  The problem isn't reconciling with each other, but reconciling themselves to being an occupied nation.  The Iraqis who seem inclined to taking the money and letting the U.S. stay are targeted for elimination.  That's where the indigenous mayhem stems from.  The "continuous bombardment" of which the Iraqis complain and which continues to kill people is part of the mayhem that's supposed to induce the Iraqis to 'cry uncle.'  But they refuse.

  Perhaps its because Iraqis are like christians in that if they don't know the human perpetrator of an evil event, they dismiss it as "God's will."  

  by hannah on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:01:54 AM PDT

•  this being tax time

  if there was an IRS agent at everyone's kitchen table as they did their taxes, i bet the income for the IRS would increase.  if there was a cop at every single stop sign, i bet the folks who go through stop signs would slow down.   Facism works to some degree in keeping folks in line even if they have a just cause or not. Look, I would have thought it over before I became a resistance fighter against the nazis in europe after the occupation.  that take the villagers out and shoot a whole bunch for killing a nazi soldier does give one pause.  But it is expensive and sooner or later,,, seems sooner here, the whole thing comes crashing down mostly due to the econmomics of occupation.  Look at the the Soviet Union in Afganistan and the Nazi's in the Soviet Union.  

  Our economy can not sustain a soldier in every building in Iraq.  Sooner or later, you are stuck with tanks that you really can't resell for much.  

  Now of course since there was no reason to do it in the first place except for Cheney's guys to make money, it has worked up to a point.

  It's just a mess for us.  

  I wish Obama would tie the war more to the economic mess we now are in.  People don't seem to get it as they now are saying the surge is working as they keep away from the malls.  I guess in some ways we can thank Petraeus for keeping sales down in Macys and if you have teenage daughters that buy the latest crap every week, this is good.

  And we could praise Petraeus for $4/gal gasoline prices which means less use by Americans of their cars and that is good.

  Just a weird way to bring consumerism down and environmental stardards up by killing so many Iraqi people and causing such sadness for so many American families who have lost their loved ones over there or the ones who are the walking wounded now.

  I do feel the Patreaus way is not economocially sound for this country but I wouln't mind having a few more forest rangers protecting us from the crazy Conneticut hunters who come up here drunk during the season.

   

  by john from vermont on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:02:08 AM PDT

•  Betrayus

  Sounds like he's betray-ing-us once again.

  Republican asshat.

  by Dagoril on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:04:48 AM PDT

•  Petraeus/McCain/Bush: Same Bottom Line

  No matter what is happening in Iraq, good or bad, there is always only one conclusion to be reached by these folks:

  We need as many troops as possible there for as long as possible.

  Through all the ups and downs (and downs have far outnumbered the ups), that is always the message.   And Petraeus is just the latest Bush administration (now McCain campaign) parrot on this.  

  by smithnewyork on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:07:34 AM PDT

  •  Give us just anuther 6 months and 30,000 more

    troops and free acess to all your Oil reserves and then we will stay..Hahaaa..TGIF ! Love to have a beeer with Petrayius and bush at the Spot Bar in Steubenville..

    by Johnny Rapture on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:18:34 AM PDT

•  He's a good schmoozer, that's all.

  True, Bush won't let him fully institute his counterinsurgency plan which a few reporters might have read.  But as long as he's a public figure, it's the MSM's job to ask him the uncomfortable questions.

  Or maybe they're brownnosing because they think he's headed for Chairman of the Joint Chiefs.  That's a ridiculous assumption, since generals with better records than his have been axed for less than this clusterfuck than Iraq.  

  I still think he's this generation's William Westmoreland.

  by Ice Blue on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:08:47 AM PDT

•  Petraus scares me

  I can't help but think that there's something terribly ego-driven and wrong going on behind his eyes.

  by SecondComing on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:10:07 AM PDT

  •  he is a typical staff officer

    who has been promoted beyond what he is ready for. As a comparison, if the local cops paid off the bad guys to keep crime at a certain level only, no one would be praising the job they are doing. Anyone can pay bribes; not everyone can lead.

    by entlord1 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:13:12 AM PDT

    •  The Peter Principle come home to roost

      again?

      by SecondComing on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:52:27 AM PDT

•  The media pretends he is infallible

  when he is reinforcing the administration's crazed notion that waging a pre-emptive war in Iraq was the right decision and that the surge (temporary anyone??) is working the way it was supposed (pick your reason).  The media cannot admit they were wrong and has to keep advancing the administration's talking points.  Like the administration, they're in this mess too deep.

  by Molly M on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:22:04 AM PDT

•  Senate Daze...

  A man sitting quietly in his chair dazes off into the distance....

  Gen. Petraeus: Why the heck do I have to repeat myself! I'm a General in this here man's Army! We succeeded. We got the job done. End of story!

  Prof. Petraeus: But general, we really didn't. We got them to the table, but all they want to do is bicker and drag things out. It's really depressing...I

  Gen. Petraeus: What?! Drop and give me 20 soldier! I won't have any weaklings in my outfit!

  Prof. Petraeus: uh? yessir! Right away, sir! one.. two.. ompfh!..

  Gen. Petraeus: (mumbling) God damned shit for brains... We won.. thats what I'll tell 'em. And they better listen this time..

  Prof. Petraeus: ..four.. five..

  Sen. Petraeus: Well your right, General. It's going to be clear sailing from here on out. We brought them to Democracy and it's gonna be contract after contract coming out of that money pot of a country. I tell ya, we have it made.

  Prof. Petraeus: ..eight.. nine.. What? Excuse me? I don't think you realize...

  Gen. Petraeus: Who told you that you could think, son? (steps on Prof's back) Now get back to your pushups.... I agree, it's been a wonderful war so far. (puffs on a cigar) I just can't get enough of the smell of burnt corpses in the street and gunfire in the air. It makes me sorry to see it end.

  Sen. Petraeus: End? No. no ... no. Don't put the fires out yet! We need to get McCain elected first then we can start working on our Senate Campaign. We have to get kickbacks arranged with Blackwater before the year is out. And don't forget Cheney's promise, he said he would put in a good word with Halliburton. We need them for the fundraising for next year.

  Prof. Petraeus: But you told me we were going to go back to teach at West Point! You promised!

  ...

  (bang of the gavel in the Senate Committee)

  Committe Chairman: Order Please! General, we couldn't make out what you were saying. Could you speak up?

  Petraeus: (blink) wha? uh right... yes...

  by Wynter on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:37:45 AM PDT

•  Americans will support if think we are winning

  There is a huge % of the people who only have problems with the war because they think we are losing. These people are the only hope the Govt has left and the way to their hearts and minds is to "spin a win".Its part of the whole war effort an Americans need to realize they are a target of the pentagon.

  by eddienic on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:52:03 AM PDT

•  And he has a fool for an adversary nt

  by AllanTBG on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:04:50 AM PDT

•  I read Petraeus to say"The Iraqies aren't meeting

  their end of the Surge bargain."  They aren't going to as long a Bush gives them a free ride with no expetations.  The only way to end the war is to vote out GWB and his clones McCain and Clinton.

  by drmah on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:27:26 AM PDT

  •  Hey!

    Don't lump Hillary in the same company as "Bring em on!" Bush/MCain.

    And don't feed me the AUMF lines.

    by Wynter on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:59:00 AM PDT

•  General PETraeus. Bushs Favorite GI Joe Toy!

  He makes him say whatever he wants to say and do whatever he wants to do.

  by DFutureIsNow on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:45:12 AM PDT