(Civility) Don't make me come up there!!

I was not here during the 2004 primary season, but understand there was similar vitriol regarding "my candidate kicks your candidates ass" and "I'm taking my ball and going home if you don't stop being nice to my candidate".

So, I can't really compare what is going on now to that election.

However, I did want to chime in and discuss what we as a community need to do.

Dare I say we are a family?  I would think so, even though many of us have never met.

People disagree with members of their family all the time, but it doesn't change the fact that they must continue to get along when at all possible.

Now, we are all (at least 95% of us) united in the goal of electing "more and better democrats".  Bashing our primary candidates does not move us further towards that end.  

First.  Hillary.

(Full disclosure: I'm behind Obama).  Also, I am deeply disturbed by recent campaign tactics by Hillary.  Whether or not you believe that Ferraro was put up to this by the campaign, Hillary (sorry if this upset anyone) Clinton did not take the high road by saying what a disgusting comment this was.

Her recent campaign tactics have been hurting the Democratic party.  Whether or not she realizes this and continues doing so is debatable.  But regardless, she needs to think about what she is doing.

Second.  Obama.

In my estimation, he has been a gentleman about the campaign, although some times his supporters have been rather unkind to Hillary.  This should stop.  She is (at least I think she is) a Democrat, and flinging poo at her (or her supporters) is counterproductive.  

Again full disclosure: I have never wanted to see an HRC nominee.  My reasons for this are mostly based on her negative coattails, although I think (or at least used to think) she would make an excellent president.  Certainly head and shoulders above ANY Republican.  

Third.  Poo flinging.

Come on folks, we need to have civil discussions about our candidates, so that once this is decided, we can come together again as a community.

So - all the "Hillary is a b---h" posts aren't really helping.  Nor are the "writer's strike" posts.  

This infighting is bad for us as a community, and bad for Democrats in general.   Is Hillary doing scorched earth?  It looks like it.  Are Obama supporters "cult-like" in their support?  Sometimes.

But folks, let's focus on the prize OK?  Any divisions between us helps McBush and hurts down ticket races.

So - while we don't have to stop arguing, we need to be civil.  OK?

So - let's stop fighting dirty.  And, as my Mom used to say when friends were over: "Don't make me come up there"

•  Tips for civilized argument

  by DrWolfy on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 03:00:43 AM PDT

•  Rec'd and supported

  Can we PLEASE have some supporters of both sides

  1. Write more diaries explaining why they like their candidate

  2. Cease the nastiness

  3. Cease the general freak-outs? Seriously, every news story about either candidate seems to inevitably cause at least one person to state that that candidate is doomed.  Get a grip people!

  by Wanderer on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 03:11:55 AM PDT

  •  Wanderer

    Too many candidate diaries should just be comments in other diaries already written. I agree about the nastiness. Quite frankly I'd take either Clinton or Obama over McCain and for someone to say otherwise is insane.

    by Carnacki on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 04:32:03 AM PDT

    •  But they DO say otherwise...

      ...and they say it a lot, which is the most stinging of opinion I encounter here.

      by Larry Bailey on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 04:45:10 AM PDT

•  Poo flinging?

  Not I.

  by x on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 03:22:16 AM PDT

•  Being Fair.

  Every Diary on the rec list is an Obama diary or a diary Bashing Hillary. How do you think it makes Hillary supporters feel? We are part of this Community too. Many of us don't dare post a comment about Hillary or even try to correct some of the lies and half truths that are being posted here. We get remarks hidden or we are flamed. Put youself in our place. How would you feel? It makes me feel sad that this great blog has suddenly turned into a place were these lies and half truths are even allowed to happen. We used to say no, not here!

  by Owllwoman on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 03:35:26 AM PDT

  •  Owllwoman, post that diary

    If you post that kind of diary, I'll rec it. Promise. :)

    And I do understand the pain of Hillary supporters. I left MyDD a month ago because that place had become caustic to Obama supporters, and I don't want the same thing to chase people away from DKos.

    I think we all are having our passions running a little high. Maybe the reason is our own lack of ability to influence the campaign?

    by Wanderer on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 03:42:01 AM PDT

    •  In my opinion, we are all too emotionally

      involved.  We could all benefit from steping back a little and using our heads rather than our heart. This election is too important to lose and yet we are all fighting. I have a granddaughter to think of, and this Country as it stands now is not the Country I want for her. This is about the rest of our lives. And maybe thats the problem, we all know the outcome is so serious. But lets agree to at least talk about it. Maybe by discussion we can rid ourselves of some of the fear, that is driving this in-fighting.

      by Owllwoman on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 03:54:24 AM PDT

      •  Agreed

        I ALWAYS believe in talking where it has a chance of making things better :)

        by Wanderer on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 02:12:13 PM PDT

  •  It's just been turning out that way...

    lately. I would like to see Hillary supporters post
    more diaries explaining thier position, not go on strike. If you go into a pro-Obama diary and inflame you can't expect to get tips or be treated lightly and vice versa.
    I personally haven't seen many comments that I would hide. If someone's out of line most of the time people step in no matter who they support and explain why something is inappropriate. I think this is really going overboard. But if people cannot be rational and explain themselves in a way that convinces others, well maybe thier argument wasn't that good to begin with.
    Furthermore, I think it would be really boring around here if it was just Obama supporters. Just my 2 cents.
    P.S. "Opinions are like belly buttons~everybody has one.":~)

    by Wild Starchild on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 04:59:09 AM PDT

  •  I would welcome positive diaries...

    However, the majority seem to be about Rezko or other issues with the general and Obama's problems.

    I have tried as much as possible to be fair to HRC and her supporters.  However, it has turned quite ugly.

    by DrWolfy on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 05:34:44 AM PDT

•  Problem not diarists (generally) but commenters..

  ...Too many people at DK feel they can use comments to present themselves as brave and strong in bashing anything they disagree with.  Prime example: last night, I had a 10K UID (i.e., someone we would not assume is a child) tell me to "eat it" because, as a Clinton supporter, I still wished Senator Obama well on his media tour last evening to combat the Wright firestorm.  

  Can't tell you how many times I've had vulgar crap thrown at me because I support another DEMOCRATIC candidate, or because I simply raise questions about Senator Obama.  And not always by the recent crop of foul-brained high UIDs -- who I often cannot tell apart from Rethugs.  If our community truly consists of adults, and supposedly progressive adults at that, then why all the trash talk?  Is this what Obama inspires in some of his supporters?

  Thank you for writing this diary.  I hope it helps.

  by Larry Bailey on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 04:44:00 AM PDT

  •  Trolls should be ignored no matter...

    who they support, no? I see great discourse on this sight every day. I think some are choosing to focus on the negative statements instead of what has been productive.
    I mean come on..."someone was mean to me on the internet. I'll never vote for their candidate,cause their supporters were rude."
    Paleeeeaaaasse.

    by Wild Starchild on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 05:07:53 AM PDT

    •  Is that what you read in my comment? jeez.

      by Larry Bailey on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 05:29:04 AM PDT

  •  Thanks Larry

    I hope it helps too, but I doubt it.

    Seems that primary season brings out the worst in people.

    I do take issue with one thing you say.  

    Is this what Obama inspires in some of his supporters?

    I see equal amounts from both sides.

    by DrWolfy on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 05:31:48 AM PDT

    •  There's more than one side here?

      If you see any other Clinton supporters anywhere around, tell them "hi" for me and to look for the guy in the red pajamas.

      by Larry Bailey on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 05:41:50 AM PDT

•  You question whether she's a Democrat

  and rightfully so. That's the crux of her and her supporters problems here. She is losing in delegates, popular vote, and states won; she has been exposed as lying about her foreign and domestic policy achievements. So if she cares about the Democratic Party, why is she still in this race?

  by jhecht on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 06:06:39 AM PDT

•  thanks for this...

  I see fault in some members from both sides, and I'm probably not alone in that.  Certainly there has been too much name-calling and, as you say, poo-flinging.  It's not necessary and it's certainly not productive.

  I'd like to see an honest exchange of views - hopefully skewed towards posting, as was suggested, why one likes the candidate they're supporting.  Flaming each other in comments is not helpful.  Nor is posting only what is perceived as inflammatory "gotchas" at each other, and even less so when they're half-truths or misleading.  The perception that's what's being done draws fire here, as it should, though even there I think we could be more civil to each other.

  I'm also one who thinks the various "everyone" and "no one", and "always" and "never" statements about each candidates' supporters don't help.  They're probably mostly inadvertent, but people get defensive.  And it happens a lot these days.

  And, lastly, I'd really, really like to see an end to the talk of Obama cultists, Obamabots, drinking Kool-Aid, Clintonistas, or whatever else the label of the day is -- these just seek to demean each other and put all supporters into little boxes that can be dismissed as irrelevant.  I don't think they help in having productive dialogue.  And if the solution isn't to HR nasty comments (and plenty of people howl when someone does do that), then I think we need to try to self-police, and to use our sense of community to at minimum not reward, those who go over the top into the insulting.  It gets even me defensive, which I know is totally silly, but it does, and it affects how I'm tempted to respond at times.

  Which brings me to - given how defensive I can feel as an Obama supporter, even more can I agree it must be hard to be a Clinton supporter on Kos these days.  I can understand how feeling like a small minority in the chorus of Obama diaries must be difficult.  I'll try to continue to bear that in mind, so that even if I don't approve of Senator Clinton's campaign, or don't entirely understand why others do (I don't mean that snottily - I think it's just hard to see through each others' eyes), that I respect my fellow Kos posters enough to assume they just honestly see it differently and not go down a negative road.

  by American in Kathmandu on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 06:14:55 AM PDT