All That Needs to be Said About Jeremiah Wright

This is all that needs to be said about Jeremiah Wright from this point onward:

                                                                                                                               

Furthermore:

•  But you forgot this . . .

  by another American on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:20:18 PM PDT

  •  Thanks, I was getting to that

    by GOTV on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:20:51 PM PDT

•  Oh, one more thing:

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  by GOTV on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:20:31 PM PDT

•  No This Is What He Really Should Say

  by WeBetterWinThisTime on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:23:25 PM PDT

•  Absolutely exquisite

  Your way with words could match Mark Twain.

  by DH from MD on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:23:50 PM PDT

  •  Had I more time,

    I'd have written a shorter diary.

    by GOTV on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:24:35 PM PDT

    •  Sometimes things need to be written

      No matter how long it takes.  Don't fret about it.

      by DH from MD on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:25:38 PM PDT

      •  But seriously,

        hasn't this quasi-issue been beaten to death already?  Hasn't every last bit of nuance been wrung from it by now.  At this point, we only serve to justify the attention the MSM gives character.  

        Can we stop doing that, already?

        by GOTV on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:30:15 PM PDT

        •  At this point...

          ...the dead horse has been beaten into a fossil.

          by DH from MD on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:35:06 PM PDT

          •  Yep,

            beaten into a fossil, dug up by archaeologists, cleaned off, categorized and put up for display in a museum in the suburbs of WHO GIVES A SHIT?!

            by henna218 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:51:11 PM PDT

        •  It is spinning so fast...

          in the RWSM (Talk Radio, Blogasphere & FOX News) that it is getting out of control...Barack needs to figure out how to stop it and quickly...or we are done in the GE

          by dvogel001 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:36:36 PM PDT

          •  I have to agree

            I was talking with some right wing extremists, and they are chomping at the bit to vote against him now. This kind of thing scares me.

            On the other hand, I am proud that many Democrats are able to accept this and move on. It makes me feel better about the world.

            by moviemeister76 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:01:20 PM PDT

            •  I don't care about the Democrats...

              about this one...I only care about the wingnuts...this is what I was worried about all along...they will be just as motivated to vote against Obama as they currently are against Clinton...some RW Nut just needed to find the right catalyst...

              by dvogel001 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:04:59 PM PDT

          •  I disagree...

            it is an eternity of news cycles until next week much less the election.  Besides for which, the people who feed on hate radio are gonna vote against him, more than likely, at any rate.

            by mayan on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:04:23 PM PDT

            •  But up until now...

              they were thinking about staying home against the "so-called moderate" McCain and now they are all pumped up about voting against Obama because of this...not good...

              by dvogel001 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:06:23 PM PDT

              •  I think...

                that it's a long, long time between now and November.    More than likely these are people who were going to get whipped into a frenzy at any rate.  Do you really think that they wouldn't start frothing should HRC get the nod?  Remember...these are the same people who credited the stories about Vince Foster.  

                Really.  Obama has managed to pick his way through the reefs so far, has been fighting a tough two front battle.  There's a whole lotta news territory that's going to be covered between now and then.  Starting tomorrow with his speech.  I hope it gets covered.

                by mayan on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:09:24 PM PDT

                •  Absolutely they would be...

                  fired up against Hillary...no argument there...

                  But what I am afraid of is that the Obama supporters seem to be counting on Barack's persona and halo effect of his positive ratings which are beginning to tumble because of these unfair attacks...I hope he does knock this speach out of the ball-park

                  by dvogel001 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:23:31 PM PDT

    •  Never Have My Own Words Been Taken Right Out Of

      my own mouth, and expressed so beautifully!  Thank You Grasshopper!

      by leonard145b on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:28:19 PM PDT

    •  Thanks for this

      Watching this train wreck of a "controversy" makes me  feel like I woke up to find that everybody around me had gone insane.  I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who feels that way.

      by someotherguy86 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:28:24 PM PDT

      •  I felt as though I needed to speak out clearly

        and at length.

        by GOTV on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:49:05 PM PDT

    •  you may get in trouble...

      with ek hornbeck.  After reading his diary this weekend...um...I don't know, you seem to be skirting the diary principles with your introduction.  You may want to sketch it in a little bit.  And beware of quoting too much John Cage.  Copyright stuff, y'know.

      by mayan on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:02:53 PM PDT

      •  ek just needs to read between the lines,

        and I'll be all right.  Thanks for the advice, though.  

        (The Cage allusion was good.  Heh.)

        by GOTV on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:12:32 PM PDT

        •  Excellent diary, BTW!

          Well said.

          by mayan on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:14:26 PM PDT

•  EXCELLENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  by IraqVeteran on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:23:51 PM PDT

•  Took me a full 30 seconds or so staring at

  that white space, waiting for a video to appear.  (Sigh)  Sometimes I'm so blonde.  

  by sherlyle on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:23:57 PM PDT

  •  I thought there was something wrong

    with my monitor!

    by JaciCee on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:30:22 PM PDT

    •  Maybe we should start our own summer

      camp.  It would be fun, but bewildering.  

      by sherlyle on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:33:56 PM PDT

      •  What a hoot!

        The first day of class we could talk about how to plug a computer into a wall outlet.

        ...I'll have to find my book on that though.

        by JaciCee on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:49:35 PM PDT

        •  The very first page

          in my blonde handbook says "If you're blonde, you can probably find someone else to fix it for you".
          Pretty much true, actually.  

          by sherlyle on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:53:36 PM PDT

•  Nice touch...

  more of Rev. Wright. You defeated your purpose.

  by leftbird on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:25:49 PM PDT

  •  you don't have a sense of humor, do you? n/t

    by pacific city on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:48:27 PM PDT

•  or this:

  how on earth could a working class white person like myself be offended by such things?

  i must be ignorant.

  by strangeman1969 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:26:43 PM PDT

  •  Barack Obama Is Aslan

    by WeBetterWinThisTime on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:29:10 PM PDT

  •  Not only are you ignorant...

    You're controling, you're rich, white...I think you might be a Roman too. You're greedy SOB!

    Sorry, I got caught up in the Rev's rhetoric!

    by leftbird on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:31:44 PM PDT

    •  actually i'm jewish.

      jewish turned agnostic, that is.

      does that make me white?

      my skin is light-colored.

      yet the white germans did horrible things to my people in europe.

      where does that leave me?

      by strangeman1969 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:34:40 PM PDT

      •  I know that...

        Rev. Wright's rhetoric is divisive and does not unite people.

        by leftbird on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:38:49 PM PDT

        •  So:

          Where is your outrage at Hillary Clinton attending The Fellowship, a radical right-wing group that wants to turn this country into a theocracy?

          by Eternal Hope on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:54:27 PM PDT

  •  To start with

    you could be shallow, looking for a boogeyman to set you singing, afraid of your own shadow, ignorant of our history, intentionally closed-minded, unaware of the real issues we face or, if all else fails, you could simply be a poseur looking for political gain at the expense of your enemies.

    Bad words indeed from Rev. Wright.  Narrative defining?  Only for those with little else to consider.

    by huckleberry on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:40:57 PM PDT

    •  like i wrote.

      i must be ignorant. because this shit offends the hell out of me. and obama is close to this man.

      first the clintons and their supporters are called racist. then this shit surfaces.

      what the fuck am i supposed to think?

      i'm white, but i'm also jewish.

      by strangeman1969 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:50:18 PM PDT

      •  Look:

        You've been obsessed with this issue for the last five days. Of course you are offended -- that is because you are a Clinton supporter. This person does not represent Obama in any way, shape, or form, and Obama has rejected his remarks. What more could you want?

        by Eternal Hope on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:53:11 PM PDT

        •  remove your troll rating.

          it violates site rules and makes you look petty.

          why are you so afraid of debate?

          by strangeman1969 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:54:16 PM PDT

          •  Fine -- you don't know.

            I asked you a simple question, and you don't know the answer to that. That tells me you are obsessed with hate for Obama and are a troll.

            by Eternal Hope on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:55:38 PM PDT

            •  you are the one trolling for dissenters.

              and like i said before, i have violated no site rules.

              and i am offended by the reverend's sermon. it is crude, offesive and unproductive.

              it is a clear example of race baiting. and my candidate's name was dragged through the mud as well.

              so let me tell you something pal. I am very offended by this shit.

              by strangeman1969 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:00:43 PM PDT

              •  Yes you are.

                You are acting against the purposes of this site by trying to make it reflect on Obama. You are aiding and abetting John McCain with your character assassination of fellow Democrats. You do not belong on this site.

                by Eternal Hope on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:03:04 PM PDT

                •  i'm not aiding and abetting anyone.

                  not any more than those who spew venom towards hillary clinton here.

                  god, i hate this fucking primary

                  and i'm tired of you following me around.

                  give it a rest already.

                  by strangeman1969 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:06:43 PM PDT

                  •  Two wrongs don't make a right.

                    As long as you keep spaming the threads with your hate of Obama, you're going to get troll-rated. No, I will not "give it a rest" until you decide to start posting things that are not anti-Obama hate.

                    by Eternal Hope on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:17:51 PM PDT

                    •  what is your beef with me?

                      did i touch a nerve with you or something?

                      i'm certainly not spamming. i respond to every comment in response to mine. even yours, despite your disrespect for me. and i respond honestly.

                      should i pretend to think things that i don't really think?

                      is there a rule that says discussion about race is forbidden?

                      seriously, what is your problem?

                      by strangeman1969 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:25:10 PM PDT

                      •  That's all you ever talk about.

                        It's hate, hate, hate. You have never once taken an interest in any other topic here. The fact that you create an account for the sole purpose of smearing Obama and enabling the right-wing noise machine makes you a troll.

                        You can think whatever you want, but the difference is that you are obsessed.

                        by Eternal Hope on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:50:56 PM PDT

                        •  what?

                          The fact that you create an account for the sole purpose of smearing Obama and enabling the right-wing noise machine makes you a troll.

                          that is simply not true.

                          it is ad hominem.

                          please stop.

                          by strangeman1969 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:59:46 PM PDT

                          •  What do you plan to contribute to this place?

                            Because as far as I know, this is the only thing you ever post about.

                            by Eternal Hope on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:03:34 PM PDT

                            •  i plan to contribute by encouraging

                              liberal-mided people to think rationally.

                              and if you look at my posting history, i am clearly a student of critical thinking.

                              maybe i'm wrong sometimes.

                              okay, sometimes i am definately wrong.

                              but my goal is to make people think.

                              and i find great debate and meet good people though honest exchanges. the echo chamber shit bores the hell out of me.

                              i wish you wouldn't be so quick to push the troll rating button. it is hurtful and violates the site rules.

                              we could have a repectful exchange of ideas without it. who knows? you might even change my mind.

                              so please bury the hatchet and let's be done with this ugliness.

                              on the issues, i'll bet that we agree 99% of the time.

                              by strangeman1969 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:16:06 PM PDT

                              •  That's nice.

                                But the problem is that you're not being rational right now. If you want people to bury the hatchet, then you need to learn to bury the hatchet with Wright and not get so obsessed. You have every right to your opinion or even to be offended, but the problem is that you are not turning it into something positive. Instead, every single post that I can tell is just about this one issue.

                                by Eternal Hope on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:21:09 PM PDT

                                •  i'm being very rational.

                                  again with the ad hominem.

                                  watch for my next diary.

                                  you will not be disappointed.

                                  by strangeman1969 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:29:50 PM PDT

                            •  and you post numerous pics

                              in the comments that violate the copyrights of these artists, yet you're still here. Apparently though, it is quite obvious that kossacks like you can repeatedly commit a bannable offence while anyone who criticizes Obama in any way should be run off the site just for expressing a contrary opinion.

                              Welcome to the Twilight Zone.

                              by catnip on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:18:44 PM PDT

                              •  I didn't know it was copyright.

                                I won't use that particular image in the future. But I have every right to complain whenever anyone posts anything that is inflammatory.

                                by Eternal Hope on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:24:33 PM PDT

                                •  it was more than one pic, FYI

                                  And the person you are complaining about has the right to disagree with you, n'est-ce pas?

                                  by catnip on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:31:25 PM PDT

                                  •  Yes.

                                    But my problem is that he is totally obsessed with this issue. He has done nothing but post on this issue for the last five days; check his comment history if you don't believe me. He has a right to be offended, but he does not have a right to be obsessed with this issue and do nothing but post on this day in and day out.

                                    by Eternal Hope on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:35:13 PM PDT

                                    •  obsessed?

                                      he does not have a right to be obsessed with this issue and do nothing but post on this day in and day out.

                                      Why not? Is there something in the FAQs that says people can't be "obsessed" with a particular topic? If so, you might want to give a heads up to DemfromCT who keeps posting all of that avian flu stuff, not to mention Jerome a Paris and bonddad who seem to be "obsessed" with the economy. Then there's that obsessive teacherken who keeps posting obsessively about education issues. And nyceve and her health care obsession.

                                      I think I've made my point.

                                      by catnip on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:42:48 PM PDT

                                      •  This is a Democratic blog.

                                        The purpose of this site is to get Democrats elected. That means that we are not to go undermining the purposes of this site by posting Republican smears day in and day out.

                                        by Eternal Hope on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:50:09 PM PDT

                                        •  but calling Hillary a "bitch", "traitor" and..

                                          "racist" is okay.

                                          Gotcha.

                                          by catnip on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:55:51 PM PDT

                                          •  Where?

                                            Have they done it here within the last 24 hours? I would be more than happy to check such comments out. I would never call Hillary that.

                                            by Eternal Hope on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 02:25:00 AM PDT

                                            •  why do you narrow it down to 24 hrs?

                                              They've all been used here.

                                              by catnip on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 03:23:43 PM PDT

                  •  Recc'd because

                    the troll rating does not appear to be justified.

                    by quaoar on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:39:59 PM PDT

                    •  I didn't see the reason for the troll either

                      by papicek on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:43:59 PM PDT

                    •  Yes it is.

                      If you'll check his history, you'll find that his sole purpose in coming here is to post vile hateful comments about Barack Obama. He repudiated the remarks in question, and Wright does not represent the campaign in any way, shape, or form. And yet this troll continues to obsess over this issue and undermine the purposes of this site.

                      by Eternal Hope on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:45:04 PM PDT

                      •  I generally don't run to commenter's

                        history. I will, as a rule, try and point out the errors of their ways.

                        But...let me check. BRB

                        by papicek on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:58:02 PM PDT

                      •  Wright was on something called

                        the African American Religious Leadership Committee of the Obama campaign -- in addition to being Obama's pastor, of course. He resigned from the committee.

                        Wright is clearly fair game for criticism.

                        by quaoar on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:30:39 PM PDT

                        •  True.

                          But there is a big difference between Obama and Wright, and if this poster wants to be a productive member of this place, then he needs to be able to practice what he preaches and bury the hatchet. Obama's done all the right things, so what more can we ask from him?

                          by Eternal Hope on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:32:34 PM PDT

                          •  My dear EH

                            I have followed your posts for a long time and greatly respect your opinions. If I were to write a list of my top 10 favorite posters, you would be on it.

                            So I ask you to cut this poster some slack -- at least this one time -- in the interest of site harmony.

                            The ongoing civil war on DKos has caused me great consternation. I hate seeing this great site torn asunder by the primary. So I do what I can to try to bring opposing sides together.

                            Will you help me this one time?

                            by quaoar on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 11:09:52 PM PDT

                            •  I'll do what I can.

                              But this poster needs to practice what he preaches. If he wants others to bury the hatchet, then he has to practice what he preaches and bury the hatchet on Wright himself. And if he wants to be as rational as he says he is, then it is not rational to obsess over Wright for five straight days with the same repetitive posts, although I did see a few signs of progress on his part.

                              I don't want to see this site torn apart either, but I don't want this poster to turn out to be another Reality Bias who obsesses over one topic to the detriment of this place. If he turns out to be one, then that would tear this place apart as well.

                              by Eternal Hope on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 02:29:44 AM PDT

                        •  I don't think there's much to defend...

                          like I've said, I rather admire Wright, after coming to an understanding of the man's audience, their lives, their anger, his pride, strength and leadership. Having said that, I gotta admit in all honesty that tone counts as well, but I'll give him a pass. Easily.

                          I'll post his "Audacity to Hope" sermons again here...have a listen (no video, just audio):

                          Part I and Part II

                          Clearly, the man is not all black-power flamer.

                          by papicek on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:51:48 PM PDT

              •  seriously...

                he's not a hate monger. He's a member of a community under siege, and angry at the neglect this nation's institutions have tendered that community.

                In case you missed it, just the fact that this blog, in which you may read:

                This blog is dedicated to all the missing black women in America. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr once said "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." If the media doesn't step up - who will? Let these ladies know that we did not forget about them.

                exists, says it all.

                Take a good, long look at that blog and note that all the continuing stories, save one, in the national media of women being the victims of violence are white, and tell me that Wright has no grounds for anger. Try telling that to Deidre who's putting in a ton of work on that blog.

                Reverend Wright gets to be angry.

                by papicek on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:14:47 PM PDT

                •  he can get angry without making it about

                  race.

                  or perhaps without blaming a race of people. forget about the gray area where there are white jews, black muslims, asian christians...

                  we are all on the same side.

                  he wants to use hillary as a punching bag for the racial inequality in this country?

                  well hillary has done a lot of good for a lot of people. including african americans.

                  so yes, the reverend gets to be angry. but this shit is offensive and uncalled for.

                  and obama should've spoken up about it a long time ago.

                  by strangeman1969 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:20:57 PM PDT

                  •  I disagree...

                    I think his anger is about the fact that at best his congregation is the victim of societal neglect, at (not by any means) worst, the innocent man with dark skin who has been pulled over by a white cop for no reason, and whose life is quite possibly about to be turned inside out.

                    I've listen to a bit of Wright, and nothing he says is untrue! you can fault his diction or his delivery as being inflamatory, because I agree with you-tone counts-but not his topic.

                    Let me put it this way: if I were a pastor who dealt with parishoners who were the victims of violence and ignored, while others were plastered ad nauseum in the national media, I'd go out of my mind with rage. My larger point here is that it's very likely the tone and voice of black America we're seeing there.

                    I see pride and strength in the man, and have come to admire him for that.

                    by papicek on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:41:39 PM PDT

                    •  much of what reverend wright says

                      is 100% true.

                      but it is a racial generalization that i fond offensive as a white, jewish, liberal american.

                      i fucking hate generalizations like that.

                      let me tell you something about myself. i was born in boston, raised in rhode island, and spent my early audlt life in the southwest. southern california and phoenix.

                      i was poor when i moved to california, and was completely out of touch with the white people in orange country.

                      i became friends with two brothers of mexican decent. their mother took care of me when i was living there. feeding me and looking after me.

                      i moved back to the northeast and couldn't help but notice the prejudice against hispanic people. good friends of mine from grade school were talking about how the town had gotten worse because the "puerto ricans" were moving in.

                      never mind that most of the immigrants were not from puerto rico. :-)

                      over the first few months back home, i noticed that the test scores in my town were as good as they ever were. i noticed that the town was the same, albeit the color of the people was slightly darker.

                      i lost friends because i saw them as bigots.

                      i saw the property values in the town and knew that the hispanic people who moved there were successful. that their children were just like the kids i grew up with.

                      i became keenly aware of the bigotry towards hispanic people. complaints about government forms being available in spanish.

                      hell, when i lived in the southwest, i would have been pissed if spanish wasn't available at gov't offices such as the dmv.

                      so it sets off a nerve with me when someone insinuates that my words are motivated by bigotry. because it is simply not true.

                      the issue is economics, not race.

                      we are all made of blood and guts.

                      by strangeman1969 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:56:34 PM PDT

                      •  fair enough...

                        you don't like the generalizations and that seems reasonable enough. After looking at your history, I see a Hillary supporter, so read this. If she, and I think it's farfetched, is nominated, I'll be there proudly casting my vote for her.

                        Like I said before, "tone counts," especially here. If you're angered by the tone of Obama supporters at dKos...well I've been disappointed myself. I hear that it was worse during the midterm elections and I'm kinda glad I missed that. So I'm very careful how I express myself here. I happen to think we're all democrats (though I know there are lots of wingnuts dropping by) who have two great candidates in the race. I'm kinda proud of that.

                        by papicek on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:13:10 PM PDT

                        •  i meet some great people through debate on dkos.

                          and you are one of them.

                          for me, it is not about the mojo or the reputation. it is about the free exchange of ideas and the honest discussion about sensitive issues.

                          i guarantee that we'll be voting for the same person come november.

                          count on it.

                          by strangeman1969 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:24:09 PM PDT

                          •  Well, now we're getting somewhere.

                            But if you're willing to bury the hatchet with regard to Obama and Wright at some point, then I am willing to bury the hatchet and quit troll-rating you. Maybe it's me, but I have had a lot of bad experiences with people who hold grudges. And you do need to practice what you preach and bury the hatchet at some point.

                            by Eternal Hope on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:28:09 PM PDT

                            •  at some point...

                              I believe we've all got to remember the stakes: people dying through lack of healthcare, the military families missing members forever. Or those families holding their breath until a loved one returns from either Asian landwar. The oft-demonstrated republlican disregard for freedom. And so much more.

                              The rest is all just useless, harmful BS. Spread the word, willya?

                              by papicek on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:35:18 PM PDT

                          •  it took me almost a year...

                            but I finally took part in a short, wonderful airing of an issue here on dKos. It was about trade, of all things.

                            It was everything I'd hoped dKos would be, but I almost GBCW'd a couple times waiting for it.

                            by papicek on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:30:11 PM PDT

                            •  no need to ever gbcw. :-)

                              there are a lot of good people here.

                              we can always take a break and come back later when things get better.

                              by strangeman1969 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:36:44 PM PDT

                              •  which is what I've done...

                                The last time I almost said to hell with this was in response to some diary "If you're not here to help elect so-and-so, get the hell out!"

                                I deleted every diary I could and was almost gone when there was an answering diary tell this guy to button it.

                                Hope was restored. hehe :-]

                                by papicek on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:42:06 PM PDT

                                •  i've written many diaries and not published.

                                  you are not alone.

                                  by the time i finished writing them, my mind was clearer. :-)

                                  sometimes i get caught up in the heat of the moment.

                                  by strangeman1969 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:46:01 PM PDT

                                  •  usually...

                                    with all my stillborn diaries, someone gets there before me, and pretty much always does a better job than I could have anyways.

                                    I'd like to have some substance in my diaries, and I'm slow at getting my facts together.

                                    Oh well.

                                    by papicek on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:55:23 PM PDT

                                    •  i work for a living.

                                      i'll bet you do to.

                                      it's hard to find the time to do what it takes to write a good diary.

                                      of course, i'm not a very good writer.

                                      but i'm good at logic. so i look for discussion instead of recognition.

                                      anyway, it has been great chatting with you. i must go to bed before my wife gives me a hard time. lol.

                                      see you around, i hope.

                                      by strangeman1969 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:00:45 PM PDT

                                      •  cya...

                                        I'll be around, but time for bed here too.

                                        by papicek on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:05:20 PM PDT

                    •  Ok. WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

                      rec's from BOTH Eternal Hope AND strangeman1969????

                      There may be hope for the party, yet.

                      by papicek on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:16:21 PM PDT

              •  BE OFFENDED

                But ask yourself: Then what? I'm white and working class and so I'd imagine are many people here. I am not offended AND THEY ARE NOT OFFENDED. Once you register your disagreement then you become a troll and deserve the hide ratings. You CAN be white and working class and find nothing wrong there. By the way, it might help if you actually mentioned WHAT it is that so offends you. By the way, in a pre-emptive strike I'd like to add that of course I hope you understand Wright it making an analogy between Romans and Jews during Christ's time and the rich and poor now. I would think most working class whites could agree that the country IS run by rich, white people and might have a problem with it. I'd think every Democrat understood that or they'd be a Republican!

                by Joe Willy on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:46:52 PM PDT

        •  How can you say this person doesn't

          represent Obama in "any way, shape, or form?" Reverand Wright is Obama's spiritual counselor, and for anyone who has a relationship like that, one knows its power and value. It is disingenuous to act like Obama has no real relationship with Wright and, in fact, is insulting to Obama.

          Wright is a man to whom Obama has looked for guidance for over twenty years.  Let's cut the bullshit.

          by LFL on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:35:54 PM PDT

          •  Well, he doesn't represent the campaign.

            But where is your outrage over Hillary Clinton and her regular attendance at The Fellowship events? It's too bad that you don't show a similar outrage that Hillary continues to have as one of her spiritual counselors one of the most vile right-wing groups there is.

            by Eternal Hope on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:48:09 PM PDT

            •  Why does Hillary come into this?

              Why do you make assumptions about what I'm outraged about?
              And why do you assume I support Clinton and not Obama?
              Talk about reacting.

              by LFL on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:06:32 PM PDT

              •  Why?

                Why does Hillary come into this?

                Simple.

                by catnip on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:21:35 PM PDT

              •  Because:

                You're following a double standard here. You show all this selective outrage at Wright for what he says, but none when Hillary has a similar relationship with The Fellowship. So, just answer the question -- does it bother you that Hillary is associated with this radical right-wing group that wants to create a theocracy in this country?

                by Eternal Hope on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:30:53 PM PDT

                •  If you actually read what I say

                  you will find no outrage, selective or otherwise. Annoyance, perhaps, at you insisting that Obama has no relationship of any import with Wright. That's just not true. And pressing that fact is tantamount to a cover up. You appear to be ashamed of the relationship that Obama has with Wright. I challenge you as to why. My guess is that Obama carries no shame; you needn't do it for him.  

                  As far as Hillary's connection with The Fellowship? Well, as one who has no faith beyond the secular - what can be done by us right here - it makes me nervous, the creepy back room Jesus come home to us stuff. No question I would hear what Wright says (for I believe he speaks on a social and political level, secular almost, if you will) and be more comfortable and familiar with his lecture than with the idea that white Christians, Hillary amongst them, are holding hands, reciting verse, and planning Armageddon. So, yes, that bothers me.

                  by LFL on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 12:30:59 AM PDT

                  •  Well, I agree with you, then.

                    Wright was very influential in Obama's development, I'm not going to kid around with you and pretend otherwise. And Wright is still Obama's spiritual advisor, and Obama has never thrown him under the bus as a person -- he just rejected the views in question. But I think Obama is doing the responsible thing by keeping his political and spiritual activities separate. And I hope that his upcoming speech on race helps.

                    by Eternal Hope on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 02:34:25 AM PDT

          •  And let's cut the bullshit

            that Obama has to agree with every word he says. He already said in no uncertain terms he disavowed those statements and has even taken Wright to task in the past. I have mentors in my life that I vehemently disagree with on key issues. Doesn't mean I endorse their every word but  I'm also going to still continue to take from them what wisdom they can deliver that I can use along my path through life.

            by Joe Willy on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:49:15 PM PDT

            •  Who says Obama has to agree with every word?

              That would be silly season indeed. He's not a fool; he has his own mind.

              But to characterize their relationship as anything but profoundly close would not be true. My guess is that if Obama respects this man, it is for good reason.

              by LFL on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:05:03 PM PDT

              •  But he still does not represent the campaign.

                by Eternal Hope on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:05:51 PM PDT

      •  victims

        is what we are.  victims i tell you.

        by huckleberry on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:53:11 PM PDT

        •  what are you a victim of?

          by strangeman1969 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:54:50 PM PDT

          •  i'm sorry

            I was using a rhetorical device.  In truth, I have nothing for which I would publicly claim victim status.  I might feel it in my heart, but I would never want to make a public show of it.  I'll be more careful.

            by huckleberry on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:00:59 PM PDT

  •  It certainly sounds different when you hear the

    whole thing and it isn't taken out of context. What a difference it makes.

    by ronnied on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:42:26 PM PDT

  •  the more I hear Rev Wright...

    the more I like him. I enjoyed watching that, thanks. He's black and angry. I'm ok with that. I tell you what else he is, he's proud of who he is. He's proud of his community, his congregation and he's proud of Obama.

    He's only telling it like it is. We (oops, I forgot to mention, I'm a white guy too) would likely do well to listen to the man. You'll notice his audience seems to be ok with what they're hearing.

    He's more than what you see there, btw.

    The sermon, Audacity to Hope, Part I and Part II.

    Audio only, I'm afraid, and it's not the "I Have a Dream" kinda moment I was hoping for, but the guy's not all flamer.

    by papicek on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:55:02 PM PDT

•  

  And that's all I've got to say about that.

  by StrangeAnimals on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:27:21 PM PDT

•  This story is becoming...

  Obama's version of Kerry's Swift Boating about his Vietnam service...Although these attacks are unfair...they are just the sort of attacks that I feared would be used against Barack Obama...This story is getting "legs, arms and a really hairy chest"...Really ugly really fast...

  http://www.rasmussenreports.com/...

  Barack must stop the Swift Boating now or he will be toast and so will the Democratic party for 2008.

  by dvogel001 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:28:47 PM PDT

  •  This is Hillary's last chance

    If she can't get this to stick, and thereby destroy Obama's credibility, she done -- finito.

    by livosh1 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:30:54 PM PDT

    •  I knew someone would ...

      try to blame Hillary for this one too...sorry this has been out there in the RW Blogasphere and the RW Talk Radio for months now...but since it is an opportune time the MSM is now starting to take it up and the RWSM is in full force with an echo...echo...echo...

      by dvogel001 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:33:08 PM PDT

      •  i don't think dvogel is trying to blame hrc

        i think s/he is saying that the only hope HRC has right now is for this to become an albatross around obama's neck that sinks him.  HRC has not said anything about this issue (that i know of).  

        by ejpoeta on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:38:25 PM PDT

        •  My comments are not intended to be...

          pro-Hillary...they are pro-Democrat and scared that history is beginning to repeat itself with the RWSM smears...on the Democratic front-runner for POTUS

          by dvogel001 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:44:09 PM PDT

    •  If Obama is not able to quell...

      the effect of this story the Democrats will lose in the GE...even if Barack holds on in the primary...

      by dvogel001 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:34:07 PM PDT

      •  I don't disagree

        But if he does quell it he'll be in decent shape going forward.

        by livosh1 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:43:15 PM PDT

        •  From your keyboard to Obama's ears...

          Peace...Go Democrats!!!

          by dvogel001 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:44:57 PM PDT

      •  I disagree when you see his whole sermon

        it doesn't seem that bad. Other than the N word, I think he spoke truth to power. But why hasn't the whole thing been shown.

        by ronnied on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:48:12 PM PDT

        •  Nobody is seeing the whole...

          sermon except for Obama supporters and committed Democrats...everyone else is seeing handpicked portions shown and aired by the RWSM and echoed by the MSM...

          by dvogel001 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:51:54 PM PDT

      •  It's mostly over

        Jesus, didn't anybody hear the news today that the financial markets are in trouble, banks are getting bailed out, oil's at record highs, etc? This is the ONLY place this is still on the front burner. I actually think Obama NAILED his response, the Sunday shows mostly had moved on and then Monday was all economy and Iraq. ONLY HERE is every obsessed about how bad this could be for him. While I wouldn't begin to argue it's great for him, it's by no means as bad as the very concerned among us posting diary after diary.

        by Joe Willy on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:54:46 PM PDT

  •  if only it was true

    you'll see this story resurface again and again after the convention if Obama wins...........bet there are 527's already being produced

    by TNforkerry on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:50:57 PM PDT

    •  They are already...

      stringing together Wright's "most toxic hits" for viewing during family time television in blue-collar, swing state America...and U-Tube clips sent to swing voters through carefully screened e-mail smear lists...

      by dvogel001 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:54:52 PM PDT

•  I want to talk about all the

  wingnut pastors/preachers who are backing McCain.  Can we do that?

  by JaciCee on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:29:44 PM PDT

  •  No.

    by johnsonwax on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:45:51 PM PDT

    •  You know how to rain on a parade. n/t

      by JaciCee on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:48:26 PM PDT

      •  I know.

        Thought it best to just take the rope out of everyone's hands before we hang ourselves by it.

        by johnsonwax on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:51:52 PM PDT

•  Let the church say Amen n/t

  by kiki236 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:30:18 PM PDT

•  You wish.

  Obama's got a disaster on his hands with this guy.

  by bethrsingleton on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:36:16 PM PDT

  •  I wish it weren't happening...

    by dvogel001 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:37:39 PM PDT

  •  Yeah, and we're helping to give it legs

    Obama needs to address this.  Quickly.  But wringing our hands over every last ounce of nuance is only helping to feed the beast.  He's got a speech about race in AMerica coming up, and it will be to his benefit to take this on once and for all at that time.

    I see no need for us to perpetuate this crap more than has been done already.

    by GOTV on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:40:24 PM PDT

    •  We don't need a speech on race in America from

      Obama.  We need a speech on why the unity and judgment candidate had such a long and close association with this hate-spewing divider.

      by bethrsingleton on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:44:05 PM PDT

      •  what was so hate filled

        that the white man controls this country. What is hateful about that. It is true. And I am a white woman. Tell me what he said in that video that wasn't true.

        by ronnied on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:51:04 PM PDT

      •  Are you so confident that you can judge

        this man, this pastor, to be a hate spewing divider, on the basis of what you have seen?

        Are you so absolutely certain of the righteousness of your judgment?

        You can decide, with assurance, on the value