Throwing Grandma under a bus

How many of us have or had a beloved and admired grandparent or great aunt or uncle or even parent who was loving, generous, compassionate, and occasionally used racial and/or ethnic slurs or stereotypes? How is it throwing them "under the bus" to acknowledge that they were a product of their times?

When Obama talked about his grandmother's words hurting him, how is that "throwing her under a bus"?  Especially when it was the truth?

I have seen it in my own family....

My grandmother, my wonderful, loving, generous, and sweet grandmother, referred to African Americans as "colored" to her dying day. She was born in Chicago in 1902 and died in Southern California in 1989. She was the second youngest child of a big Irish Catholic family. And in her early 30's she fell in love with a young Jewish man and they got married. The family loved Milton. He was every niece and nephews favorite uncle. My mother's cousins, now all grandparents themselves, still tell her how much they loved her dad and how much their parents loved her dad.

As a child my mom would visit her cousins and hear her beloved aunts and uncles and cousins saying all kinds of blatantly anti-semitic comments and slurs. Just hateful stuff. From people that loved her. And loved her father. One side of her family is anti-semitic while the other side dying in Nazi concentration camps. And on the other side, my grandfather's family in this country did say some pretty hurtful things about their Irish Catholic in-laws, too.

It all hurt mom. What they said hurt her, and yet they were her family. She loved them and was proud of them. She loved the stories of her great grandmother coming to America with her new husband because he was wanted by the British as a leader in Fenian Brotherhood. She had a beautiful cousin just her age in Poland who played the flute.

My mother loved both sides of her family and could no never disown either side.

Obama talking about his grandmother is no different from anyone else telling a story about something that a beloved older relative did that was anything other than perfect. It was a story I think most people can relate to at some level.

And to anyone who feels that mentioning this aspect of family history is like "throwing them under a bus,"  I would ask, "Why? And how should we deal with aspect of the American experience if we don't talk about it."

•  tips, comments, your family's experience?

  by Grassroots Mom on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:25:24 AM PDT

  •  Great point

    Also, the fact that all the MyDD folks and whomever else that are complaining about this miss: Obama wrote about his grandma exhibiting some racial bias in his book over a decade ago.  So to make it out like he was crafting a new story out of political expedience is ridiculous.  (I mean, he could have just read from Dreams from my father on stage while talking about his grandma - would that count as "throwing her under the bus"?)

    by barath on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:43:59 AM PDT

•  But it was okay to throw his minister under

  the bus.

  The Right is despicable, and any Hillary supporters who spouted this ridiculous talking point ought to be ashamed of themselves.

  by beachmom on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:25:56 AM PDT

  •  He didn't throw anyone under a bus

    Just told the truth about our American experience.

    by Grassroots Mom on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:28:54 AM PDT

    •  I know, that's the point!!

      The Right wanted Obama to throw his minister under the bus, but he refused because he is a decent person.  So then the Right went after him on talking about his grandmother.  They just keep switching talking points!

      by beachmom on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:42:58 AM PDT

    •  That was the genius of it

      we all have relatives who might fall into the category of racist.  My own father, the things he says, the jokes he tells.  Yet he loves his Korean grandson, his Puerto Rican grandaughter and his black great granddaughter and soon to be Mexican granddaughter-in-law with a passion.  The world's a changin, and we all know it.  Who are any of us to judge?

      by Fury on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:49:18 AM PDT

  •  Deliberate obtuseness

    I hate it when fellow Democrats get all FoxNews and start taking things out of context, just because they have become hyper-partisan about their candidate. That's the thing that has me the most down about this primary fight, seeing people that I used to respect turned into zombies.

    Yeah, he says he loved his grandmother despite the fact she was imperfect. My Polish grandmother said terrible things -- about Germans, and about other groups. I dearly love and respect her, even though I fundamentally disagree with her about the possibility of making generalizations about race or ethnicity.

    Who could misunderstand that? It is a part of the American experience that everyone has seen, in books, on the news, in movies, even if not in their own lives. It pains me that this might simply be too raw, too true, too insightful for our body politic to process. What a gift! And yet we might be so sick that we reject it?

    by MarkC on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:35:16 AM PDT

    •  I agree. nt

      by beachmom on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:43:53 AM PDT

•  It was a wonderful part of the speech

  He obviously loved and respected her. We all have people that we love and respect, yet we cringe at what comes out of their mouths.  My 84 year old mom has been a proud Democrat all of her life, but some of the things that she says. . . .

  by Nailbanger on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:26:02 AM PDT

  •  I had tears in my eyes.

    by Grassroots Mom on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:28:03 AM PDT

  •   My Sicilian

    Grandma, RIP, fought tooth and nail against McCarthyism while hating Communism at the same time...was not, shall I say, enlightened when it came to Hispanics/African Americans. She was born in 1903. I loved her, yet of course cringed at the things she used to say.

    by MichaelPH on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:44:43 AM PDT

•  It's all about mindset

  I've seen comments on open blogs everywhere who believe that Obama "called his grandmother a racist!"

  But then, they believe the comment from Obama that the Rev. Wright's comments that he heard were "controversial" is proof that he knew EXACTLY what Rev. Wright said and is lying...

  It's the difference of what you actually heard, and what you, instead, choose to believe was said.

  by second gen on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:28:19 AM PDT

•  The 'N-word'

  was spoken in my house on a daily basis. I was at least nine years old before I knew it wasn't acceptable. How would I have known?

  Now, my dad knows better than to say it around me, but I suspect that doesn't mean he doesn't say it when I'm not around.

  Do I love him? Of course.

  by Annie Maim on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:29:14 AM PDT

•  My grandmother was a racist

  She remarried someone who was a klansmen. Referred to me and my siblings (we're black/white) as nigglets and didn't allow us in her house because Black people were dirty. She also tried to force my mom into aborting us...that obviously didn't pan out, I have 13 siblings.

  So when everyone else was going to grandma's house for the summer (my Black grandmother lived in the deep south and my dad didn't allow us to go there because he thought something might happen to us, his life was threatened when he brought his white bride home) I didn't. I never got that experience. Instead I got a racist who hated me, not becuase of me, but because of the melanin in my skin.

  In discussions of race, I eagerly kick/throw/toss her under any fast moving vehicle

  by LoLoLaLa on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:29:55 AM PDT

  •  That would be the other side of my family

    My dad's dad was a brilliant man and a loving father until my dad was about about ten. Then Grandpa started drinking and never stopped. I heard him use the N-word plenty of times. He was a bitter and mean. He threw my dad down the stairs once. He drank a quart of whiskey and smoked three packs a day. The family used to joke that there was no way he would get into heaven, but he was so nasty that the devil didn't want him either.

    by Grassroots Mom on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:36:03 AM PDT

    •  Did you ever find out what happened

      to him to cause that abrupt change? Sounds like it must have been a very sad story.

      by Indexer on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:01:26 AM PDT

      •  Well, according to my dad

        His father had been a heavy drinker before. There is a letter grandpa wrote about the start of prohibition when the local saloon had to get rid of all its liquor. Grandpa and his buddies stayed up all weekend working hard to empty the stores.

        Anyway. He stopped drinking when my dad was born. And then, after 10 years, he started again. There was probably a reason, but not one that we'll ever know now.

        by Grassroots Mom on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:13:23 AM PDT

  •  My Grandmothers

    One used the word colored throughout her life.  The other thought Lincoln was "a monster" and referred to "The War of Northern Aggression."  As a little boy, I once asked if I could watch "The Jeffersons," and she looked at me like I was a lunatic.

    by deminva on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:46:06 AM PDT

  •  When your family

    repudiates you for a biological fact over which you have no control, it is hard to get your mind around the sheer mental processing you have to do just to live in your own skin, never mind learning self respect and self esteem--base-line pre-requisites for anyone else.

    I wish I had something more to offer you than an apology.

    by pasadena beggar on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:31:48 AM PDT

•  Throwing Wright under the bus

  shows he is shifting from candidate to President

  Henry the IV
     I know thee not, old man: fall to thy prayers;
     How ill white hairs become a fool and jester!
     I have long dream'd of such a kind of man,
     So surfeit-swell'd, so old and so profane;
     But, being awaked, I do despise my dream.
     Make less thy body hence, and more thy grace;
     Leave gormandizing; know the grave doth gape
     For thee thrice wider than for other men.
     Reply not to me with a fool-born jest:
     Presume not that I am the thing I was;
     For God doth know, so shall the world perceive,
     That I have turn'd away my former self;
     So will I those that kept me company.
     When thou dost hear I am as I have been,
     Approach me, and thou shalt be as thou wast,
     The tutor and the feeder of my riots:
     Till then, I banish thee, on pain of death,
     As I have done the rest of my misleaders,
     Not to come near our person by ten mile.
     For competence of life I will allow you,
     That lack of means enforce you not to evil:
     And, as we hear you do reform yourselves,
     We will, according to your strengths and qualities,
     Give you advancement. Be it your charge, my lord,
     To see perform'd the tenor of our word. Set on.

     Exeunt KING HENRY V, & c

  The pain on Barak's face was clear.

  by Nailbanger on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:31:01 AM PDT

  •  Thank You

    I've been toying with a diary on this... the parallels with Falstaff are so strong to my eyes.  

    Though in all fairness to young Hal transitioning to Henry, Obama has taken a much more evolved stance on why a "under the bus" approach doesn't serve anyone but the media.

    by toothwalker on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:40:30 AM PDT

    •  Henry was of his time

      And Barak is completely of his time.  You couldn't make up a worse candidate from a conventional standpoint, but a perfect candidate for today.
      That is why all of the hateful comments out of his opponents, they realize their time is over.  The Clintons and McCain are of the last century.

      by Nailbanger on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:00:15 AM PDT

•  i love the way the commentators

  parced every word of the speech and said things like "should he be talking about this during a campaign?"  "this is risky territory for a candidate"

  I for one find it refreshing to have a Presidential candidate who is willing to treat the American Public like the adults we are.  Instead of trying to squeeze everything into two-word soundbytes.

  by mos1133 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:31:08 AM PDT

  •  It's pretty sad

    that the commentators consider speaking truthfully a risk. If the entire fleet of TV and radio talking heads fell off the earth would anyone really miss them?

    by Many Dogs Barking on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:40:47 AM PDT

  •  Well, if the President talks about race honestly,

    the talking heads might be embarrassed about being too timid to follow suit.  They'd prefer (pardon the pun) that things remain black and white, with one group opposed to the other in a zero-sum game.  That's easier for them to describe in a way that doesn't offend advertisers.

    by I on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:04:52 AM PDT

•  "Colored" is not an epithet.....

  nor is "Negro."  Just because a term is obsolete, as these two have become, does not mean that they have any tinge of hatred associated with them.

  Of course, you grandmother used those words.  They were the words used by caring people who tried to change Jim Crow.  

  And as far as Obama's grandmother being racist because she feared black men, don't forget Jessie Jackson's comment in the same vein.  He tried to wiggle out of it, but he couldn't.

  Walking down a dark empty street in Washington D.C. he said he would be relieved if those men following him turned out to be white.

  Just as truth is an absolute defense against libel, so it should be against accusations of racism.

  by arodb on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:32:41 AM PDT

  •  no colored is

    offensive to most AA people.

    by MasterHurrikane on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:39:59 AM PDT

    •  Wake up

      The words are offensive today as is any term except "African American."  Do you expect an elderly person to keep up with the current fads in terminology.  And do you assume that because you do you are morally superior.

      P.C. is a powerful weapon. It has its place in changing habits of mind that are nefarious.  But this shows how it can be misused as an oppressive hammer. Those who criticize use of the word colored by an elderly person are historical illiterates.

      by arodb on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:47:07 AM PDT

  •  Grandma was not a racist

    nor a bigot. And she was not anti-semitic. However members of her family were anti-semitic and bigots as well.

    We tried to get her to use African American. But she was a product of her time.

    by Grassroots Mom on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:41:41 AM PDT

•  Grandparents

  When I was growing up, I'd spend the summer with my grandparents in southern Ohio, and one incident always stuck with me.  We were driving around, my grandfather was talking about the neighborhood, and he pointed to a building, "the one right behind that  [insert N word here]".  I was probably eight or nine, but had had good teachers who had taught me about the civil rights movement (whom, I realize as an adult, were probably in their early 20s when they did this).  In the town where I grew up in, by the way, there were no ethnic minorities, except for a few who worked in a Chinese restaurant.

  I got immediately uncomfortable.  My grandfather sensed this, and for the rest of the drive would point out every group of [insert N word here] he could find.  He then started goaded me to do the same.  After about ten minutes of this we reached the turn to their house.  "He's not going to do it, Matt.  Can't you see?  He's not going to do it", said my grandmother (who was a step, my grandfather had married three times).  My grandfather dropped the whole thing, and for the rest of his life he cleaned up his language, though I wouldn't be surprised if this were just around me.

  Who doesn't have crazy relatives?  And here we're not really talking about "crazy" so much as a generational divide?  Where ever people land on the issue of Obama as a candidate, I don't think the point he was making went over their heads.

  Did you ever see the movie "Big", where the asshole exec watches the unveiling of Tom Hank's cool toy and says, out of pure spite, "I don't get it"?  That option is always there, but I don't think it will fool anyone.  

  by ClaudiusTheGod on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:38:41 AM PDT

•  My own racist father

  I loved my dad.  He was a cop.  He had to deal with some ugly situations some times.  He had stress in his life that I can only imagine, even though I all too often was the victim of his releasing it.  Even though he knew he was wrong for what he often did to me, he kept doing it.

  But the worst thing he did was speak in racist language.  He truly felt that there was a biological basis for the inferiority of all non-whites in general, with Blacks at the bottom of the list.  Sure, from time to time he would say how much he admired a particular Black person in our community, but his underlying racism was too overt to hide.

  I never bought it.  I tried to talk to him as I grew older, to show him that humans are equal in dignity, that it is circumstances that mostly make up who we are and who we become, that except for circumstances he and I were no better than anyone else.  In his final years he came around quite a bit, but his deepest beliefs were too firmly ingrained to overcome.

  I don't know for certain why I rejected his racism in my youngest years, but maybe it was because I just typically resisted anything that was not compassionate to begin with.  Maybe it was the incongruity of his telling me how much he loved me right after whopping the tar out of me for some stupid reason.  I don't know.

  But I do know I always loved him, and could never disown him just because his thinking was flawed.  He was my father, he did instill many positive values in me otherwise, and overall he was a good man.

  He's gone now these past twelve years, but I can scarcely think of him without thinking how much I miss him.  I loved him.

  by cn4st4datrees on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:39:47 AM PDT

•  The thing about Obama

  that seems to be so wonderfully consistent is that he doesn't ever throw anyone under the bus.  Even when it is the politically expedient thing to do.  I was in the minority when the McClurkin fiasco flared here.  Obama repudiated his words, but not the man.  

  I feel stronger than ever that Barack Obama is a true uniter.  His belief is that if we put aside our differences and work for the common good we can achieve great things.  You don't accomplish this by continuously denouncing and repudiating people because they don't think or behave like you do.

  by loree920 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:40:00 AM PDT

  •  He truly believes that people are "good"

    that could also be seen as a fault, but I respect him for it.

    I think that will help him when dealing with the "axis of evil", if they know that he may not agree with them, he respects them and their people as humans, not something we can say for Bush

    by LoLoLaLa on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:52:33 AM PDT

•  My grandfather

  used bigoted words and expressed bigoted attitudes, and I still loved and understood him and knew that I could do little would make him change.

  He also was a quintessential Reagan Democrat.

  It was like Ronald Reagan had a special channel to reach him.  Anti-communism was a special potion for my grandfather.

  At any rate, my grandfather was not a hateful man and I knew him as so much more than the limitations his mindset on race expressed.

  Like you say, I think that experience is pretty common.

  by kid oakland on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:40:34 AM PDT

  •  Common especially for the time and while

    it is becoming less common then it was, we still have a long way to go, and thus Obama's point.  As you can see below your post, we had the same grandfather.   I was fortunate enough to have another grandfather who fought for equality and justice at a time when those things were not popular and I think his efforts are all the more spectacular because of the time.

    However, it is a new day and now more then ever, we have no excuse not to tackle bigotry when ever it raises its head.  Offhand comments by family and friends that reek of isms, be it race, sex, or otherwise, should never be met with silence.  But should be confronted.  And confronted with a voice and volume that reaches all those who heard the original hateful comment.

    by ETinKC on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:48:44 AM PDT

•  My grandfather was a racist

  he thought that it was genetics that made blacks better athletes but not as smart or Mexicans lazy...but then you would talk to him about it.

  Grandpa:  You see son, all Mexicans are lazy, they can't help it...except for Fernando over there, hardest working guy I know.  Or this guy who used to fish with me, besides your father he was the only one who could keep up with me on the boat.  And that that woman who brought us fresh jalapenos today, she not only works hard on her farm but works smart too and can grow crops when everyone else can't seem to.

  Me:  So Grandpa, you are telling me that all Mexicans are lazy, but the three that you actually know and have worked with, are the hardest working people you have met?

  Grandpa.  Yeah, imagine that.  Now let me tell you why negros can't become scientists...

  by ETinKC on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:41:05 AM PDT

  •  That rocked

    Old school racists say the funniest shit.

    by McGirk on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:48:05 AM PDT

  •  All of my Grandparents used racist language

    But I think only my paternal Grandmother may have been actually racist. And I say think, because I don't honestly know. They all used the wrong words, at the wrong times. But I know that my Maternal Grandfather grew up poorer than the blacks around him- and he a few black friends. Didn't stop him from using the n word though. He lived in Texas for a while and had a string of words for Mexicans you can't use in public. But he judged people on what they did and who they were- not what race or color they were. He talked bad about an awful lot of white people too.

    The main reason I think that they were products of their times and not actually racist is that all of their children grew up NOT being racist. Not one of them, and there are a total of 7. So, did they use bad words- sure. Did I love them any less? NO. But I sure did cringe when they talked.

    by bigred39 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:52:02 AM PDT

  •  It's the strangest phenomenon

    My mother says that gays are "wicked" but she's never been anything but loving and generous with any gay person she's actually met. It's always the "other" that people fear, I think.  

    by stephdray on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:17:42 AM PDT

•  Hell, I was watching the superbowl

  whith my grandmother and when the black girl came out to sing the national anthem, she said "Oh god, I hope she dosen't sound like a nigger." at which point I started laughing my ass off at her. As soon as the girl started singing beautifly I smirked and said "That white enough for ya?"
  Dosen't mean I don't love my grandmother, but old people say crazy shit. They were just raised that way. She did have enough class to never say stuff like this in front of me untill I was an adult, so the ignorance wasn't passed on.

  by McGirk on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:44:57 AM PDT

•  Keith had a great personal anecdote

  last night, about his grandfather who was pissed when they interrupted his program to announce the assassination of MLK.  At abut 3:50 into it:

  <iframe height="339" width="425" src="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp/23698937#23698937" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>

  by genxerd71 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:45:35 AM PDT

  •  fix it, dammit!!!!

    I want to here this.

    by McGirk on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:49:23 AM PDT

  •  Oh crap

    It was fine on the preview....

    It's not letting me post it, so I'll give you the link.  Sorry about that:

    KO last night

    by genxerd71 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:52:41 AM PDT

    •  WTF!!!

      Sorry sorry sorry....there must be some block from MSNBC.  I dont know what else to do

      KO last night

      by genxerd71 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:55:58 AM PDT

      •  Just link to their site ...

        like this.

        by I on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:12:19 AM PDT

•  all true

  but I also want to mention something else that Obama is doing that is sort of the touching on a 3rd wire for liberals. He hinted that the idea that we are often complicit in proving our own negative stereotypes. The usual liberal line is that any negative stereotypes must have been created out of thin air, because they simply don't exist--we are all the same etc etc. And that is simply not true either. Most negative stereotypes either did or do have some basis in reality. While it's certainly unfair to tar any given individual with something that may be true of others of their group, but not true of them, it doesn't then follow that NOBODY or even some large subset of that group does the negative things they are accused of.

  But of course, one of the most effective ways of getting rid of stereotypes is to outgrow them. And that's where Obama is going. We should understand our history, but we should not feel chained by it when it's not helping.

  by JMS on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:48:35 AM PDT

  •  Bullshit

    how dare you say the steriotypes have some basis. My Irish ass is so offended, I'm having trouble finishing the six pack I bought for breakfast!

    by McGirk on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:52:45 AM PDT

  •  Respectfully disagree

    Most negative stereotypes either did or do have some basis in reality.

    No, most stereotypes serve a purpose for the people that generate and disseminate them -- absolving them of guilt (Tutsi "cockroaches") or justifying their actions (Chinese "heathens") or their authority (women "irrational"). At times they appear to pick up something that is "true" -- but just as often that "truth" is true in the way traditional wisdom always is -- it was really socially constructed to serve particular interests.

    by MarkC on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:05:58 AM PDT

    •  I dunno...

      I just don't think stereotypes would have any kind of sticking power if they weren't rooted in some kind of reality. It would just be too easy to disprove them or they wouldn't pass a laugh test. The most effective slams are those that have some connection to the truth, after all. We don't like to think that this is true--that's what I mean that liberals especially don't believe or want to believe that it's true. In fact, stereotypes are sometimes used in such a way to take qualities that are neutral or even positive and use them as weapons to slam some group or another, so I agree that their usage is entirely manipulative (as an Asian person, I've certainly seen that part of it--but on the other hand, we're not very often stereotyped as violent criminals), but if people are really going to be honest about fixing what's unequal about their society, sometimes that involves saying "OK, when have I done something negative that contributed to this negative stereotype I'm trying to outgrow?". You can't correct problems if you refuse to see them--and then we're still stuck.

      by JMS on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:15:26 AM PDT

      •  How about the examples

        I gave? I mean, I agree that there can be truth behind them, but I think it is sort of random -- they have to plausible, but not necessarily truthful. Your observation that people "take qualities that are neutral or even positive and use them as weapons to slam some group or another" is a great one, and I think it illustrates that racial stereotypes are not simply generalizations, but are generalizations you use to beat other people with. So I think that to buy into them at all is to align yourself with the power structure in a way that people on this site probably don't want to do. Tutsis are not less human than Hutus, Chinese have core values just like non-Chinese, and women are just as rational as men -- or at least, that's my experience.

        So I agree we can't think something is false just because a stereotype says it is true. But I just don't see any reason to give stereotypes any presumptive credit for being true -- we're better off just observing, and seeing what is true of the common strands of acculturation of people we see ourselves.

        by MarkC on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:26:04 AM PDT

        •  there are

          other examples, though. How about "women aren't good at math and science"? The "truth" there may not be that women aren't actually good at math and science, but the reality is also that there are far fewer women who study or make careers in math or science than men. So in order to combat that stereotype, you might have to do something like say to yourself (as a woman or girl), am I pushing myself to take more difficult courses in math and science, when it might be easier to just go with the flow?

          by JMS on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:46:58 AM PDT

•  I would find it difficult to believe anyone who

  says that they have always walked away from relationships with family and close friends who hold opiinions of this sort.

  I grew up with a mother and great uncle who held beliefs that would surely have surprised my closest friends. They aren't my opinions and I haven't disowned my own mother (for crying out loud). Have I debated at times (yes) and other times I just accepted that we disagree. That's life.

  If either of them had expressed those feelings to my friends in a hurtful way, then yes, that would have crossed a line. They didn't and neither did Rev. Wright.

  It's uncomfortable, but that is life.

  by smartdemmg on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:49:38 AM PDT

•  My dh said the same thing about his grandparents

  yesterday.  He loved them and learned many wonderful things from them, but racial tolerance was not one of them.  They lived their whole lives in a small, all-white IL town and had little racial sensitivity, making unfortunate use of the N-word and so forth.  

  But in each succeeding generation, the family did better.

  Dh's parents still use the term "colored," but OTOH, they are staunch Obama supporters.

  Dh is infinitely more enlightened that either his parents or grandparents on race issues, and yet he was raised by all of them (grandparents lived next door)--influenced daily by all of them.

  Dh, like Obama and countless other people of our generation, are able to take the good things from the older generation and leave the rest behind.  It's called "thinking for oneself."

  Sometimes people are products of their time--just as Rev. Wright is, and Obama's grandmother is.  There is no shame in that--there is only shame in failing to acknowledge it and trying to understand it in order to do better going forward.

  by jenesq on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:50:09 AM PDT

•  curious that cynics speak of Obama

  throwing anyone, let alone his beloved Grandmother Toot, "under the bus."  Apparently they think this will distract attention from those on the right who are busy driving the bus over working people and our troops in Iraq, as well as opponents who are backing the bus over the very concept of "hope."

  by GreenMtnState on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:51:08 AM PDT

•  Obama Did It!

  Some of these statements are funny, some sad... but they are all true...  Our parents, grandparents, etc...  Say some crazy things....  Obama wants us to talk about them...get them on the table, and move pass them....He really is for one America.

  by IntownATLdem on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:52:07 AM PDT

•  I loved my grandpa, but...

  I loved my grandpa, he was a good man in a lot of ways, but he was a raaaaaacist motherfucker.  He was raised in the old South and a lot of its worst aspects sunk deep roots in him.  Black people used to cross the street when they walked past his house, because he'd yell out "There they go, the future of America!"  He got so bad that nobody in the family would take him to Wal-Mart anymore, because he'd try to chase black people around the store with his cane.  It was beyond embarrassing.  

  Weird thing was, all the black people he actually knew, he loved dearly.  Some of his favorite people in his life were black... but all the ones he didn't know he'd believe all kinds of horrible shit about.

  I remember getting in a big argument with him one time about his racism.  It shocked him because he was in his 90's and wasn't used to anybody talking back to him, but I was around 17 and all "punk rock" and didn't care about the family tradition of just quietly rolling our eyes and sighing while he spouted off.   One night he was over for dinner, and the family had gone out and gotten fish at Captain D's.  There had been a black girl behind the counter who was especially nice to him because he was such an old man, and he'd been very appreciative of that - even touched, I think - and had been going on and on about how nice that girl was, and how she'd even given him extra hush puppies and stuff.

  Well, during dinner he got off on some tear about "n-word this" and "n-word that" and I got fed up with it and said, "You shouldn't talk with your mouth full of extra hush-puppies."

  It kinda threw frost over the table and everybody got quiet.  He said, "Huh?"

  I said, "Yeah, you're going off on black people after that black girl was so nice to you.  Why do you want to do that?  Don't you think making broad generalizations about people based on their race is kind of dumb, when the girl at Captain D's pretty well proves that those generalizations aren't reliable?"

  He fumed for a minute and told me I'd been "brainwashed."

  I just told him that one of us definitely had been brainwashed, all right, but I don't think it's me.

  I think I shamed him a bit, because he knew he'd been stupid.  We didn't stay mad at each other or anything, though.

  So, I'll always love my late grandpa, but I'll never think that his views were anything but abhorrent.  So I can understand Obama and his grandma, or even his preacher.  And the pundits who keep talking about "why didn't he leave the church" aren't really being fair... a church tends to be a whole society, not just the preacher.  You can't walk out on one without losing all the rest.  

  by shadetree mortician on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:57:57 AM PDT

  •  Thanks for your story - great conclusion

    The easy thing is to walk out. It's much harder to stay and deal with the problems.

    Barack Obama doesn't want us walk out on each other (to separate into our groups), he wants us to come together and deal with our problems.

    by keenekarl on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 10:01:26 AM PDT

•  A Bit of A Ramble, But My Thoughts

  You're making the mistake of actually believing the people who have latched on to this talking point are doing so because they actually believe it, and not because they're trying to score some cheap political point.

  My grandmother, an african-american, was born in 1916. She was light enough to probably pass if she'd wanted to, much lighter and more white looking than even any of the half-black stars I can think of off the top of my head right now. Which is only important because whatever racism she recieved in her life, I doubt it was as harsh as that which a truly dark skinned lady would have recieved.

  Nevertheless, my mother - whose in her 60's now - can still remember that when a tragedy would strike, like a bus accident or something, and she told her mother, her mother would respond first by asking "Well, were they white or colored?"

  Of course my mother, a child of the 60's, would be apalled by this, even in the midst of the civil rights movement and think how could her mother be so cruel?

  Of course, it is an apalling sentiment, but I don't hate my grandmother, nor do I think it's in anyway appropriate to only care about people who die in accidents who happen to be the same race as you.

  And when judging my grandmother, I do have to keep in mind that one of her older brothers - she was one of 14 children, by the way - was "lynched" (actually shot, but apparently by a local drunk who was just in a bad mood) in NC, in the 30s, and since the fellow was white, there was nothing they could do about it but take the body and bury it.

  Now, I've never experienced the level of racial animosity her generation experieced. So, speaking from the black side of things, I can say I don't hold the type of anger her generation does either.
  I have plenty of white friends, ect., et al. And I'm sure just about every white police officer would charge a guy who shot me to death because he was angry and drunk and looking for trouble with murder, regardless of what race he was.

  And you know what? I'm pretty sure the grandson of the guy who killed my grand-uncle doesn't think shooting a black man is as inconsequential as killing a squirrel.

  Our grandparents were our grandparents, and we are not them, even though they are a part of To pretend otherwise is either ignorance unparalled, or an attempt to keep the narrative false...and thereby keep a political house of cards built on lies, fears, and half-truths.

  But there is a political advantage to some, who'd keep whites willfully clueless about blacks. Just as, and some blacks would challenge me for saying it but I'll say it, just as its to some people in the black community to keep blacks willfully clueless about whites.

  After all, just look at the coalition of blacks and progressive whites and people of other races Obama has put together. Its been a very strong force, and if the presence of blacks in the coalition doesn't scare of 'moderate' whites, it can be an even stronger force.

  But obviously, if it can be broken, or forbidden to grow along race lines, the conservatives can win.

  It'll be up to African-American community, to turn some of the admittedly racial pride to deeper roots with the progressive ideals, and allow blacks to adress the resemnet of whites. For instance, I think that affirmative action doesn't necessarily have to have a strictly racial component. I think other economic and social factors should play a role as well. White children, who live in underprivledges area, have single parents or a parent in jail, should be allowed to have a helping hand into the workforce as well. The sheer disparieties between the white and black community could be addressed in terms of these disparieties, and help all people, regardless of race. I fear it might not be an easy sell to some in the black community, but getitng the discussion out there in the open is a start, and who knows, my fears might be unfounded

  But mostly, to the whites, its imperative to dymisty black folks. There is, at least it seems to me, a sense out there that if blacks are for it, whites must be against it.  The old zero-sum racial games. We are not a post-racial society. And although it is uncomfortable to talk about, what Barack Obama needs right now is every white face he can get, to make absurd the claimshe's just the black candidate.  Blacks talking about racial unity, or progressive politics, or ending the war in Iraq, or anything whatsoever is not going to cut . Without the sense that he has drawn a critical number of blacks, the old passions will arise.

  I know, that's the crass politician in me talking. But unfortunately, I think it's true. Before we can have a color blind society, we'll have to form a color conscious society with a conscience. And as we work towards that, I'd urge the white progressives out there to use their whitness for good, and get yourselves out there in pictures for Obama. ;) So everything Joe Scarborough or Rush Limbaugh goes on about how Barack and blacks scare white-people, we can say, "Well, what about those hundred white people over there, or those two hundred over there. They don't look to scared."

  Anywyas, its a bit of a ramble, but that's my say.

  by kingfishstew on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:11:19 AM PDT

  •  Correction

    I mean't without the sense he'd drawn a critical number of whites to him, even though I said opposite in the post.

    by kingfishstew on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:15:04 AM PDT

  •  thanks for sharing this

    I actually realize that those making the "under the bus" comments are doing so to dismiss one of Obama's strongest examples. It's a classic Rovian tactic. Don't talk about the substance, but a distraction: Let's forget about the fact that Amb. Wilson was right when he said the assertion that Iraq was trying to by uranium from Niger was a lie because — OMG! his wife is undercover CIA.  or... OMG! Obama used the example of HIS OWN GRANDMOTHER is a speech and said something not very nice about her.

    I think there are post-racial colorblind individuals today, but that our society is not there by a long shot.

    My dad made an interesting point. Obama has a black African father and a white American mother, and media considers him black. Tiger Woods is one-quarter Chinese, one quarter Thai, one quarter African American, one-eighth Native American, and one-eighth Dutch, but he is also consider black by the media, even though he considers himself multiracial (Tiger still only black golfer on PGA Tour: Decade after debut, Woods wishes there were ‘more of us out here). The legacy of the original sin of this country lingers on in that the society still uses the slaveholders' classification of a person with one drop of "black blood" to be black. The children of Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemmings had a single African great grandparent and the other seven great grandparent were European. Sally Hemmings was Jefferson's wife's half-sister and described by at the time as "mighty near white." And yet she and her children were categorized as black and slaves.

    by Grassroots Mom on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 10:45:28 AM PDT

•  Other Stories

  I see that Obama's remarks about his grandmother have served to generate the telling of other personal stories about bigotry in our families.

  I think this is a good thing.

  For me, it's always been a healing thing to be able to talk about painful experiences with someone else - to get those things out in the open, so they don't continue to just sit there and fester.

  My mom remarried when I was about 9 years old, and my step-dad, a hot-headed Irishman, was very openly bigoted. It was the first time I'd been exposed to the "n" word - or such hatred towards a people just due to the color of their skin. It was against all that my mom had taught us - and against all we'd been taught in church. You may have heard the song...

  "Red and yellow, black and white, all are precious in His sight."

  I early noticed that my step-dad was an angry and bitter man, and that one way he expressed it was in his racial bigotry. He'd had a hard life, coming from a large family where he was the youngest during the depression. He would always remind us about how easy we had it - how he had to leave school after the 9th grade so he could go to work and help his family get by. He felt that black people were lazy and expected hand-outs - and so his anger.

  When I was 15 I went to live with my dad, who lived in Lansing, Michigan. I hadn't known my dad to ever be prejudiced. He had never used racial slurs. Well, I became good friends with a black kid, and one day he came home from school with me, but my dad refused to let him come into the house. I was shocked and hurt.  For the first time my dad expressed a distrust of black people, and he told me not to even think of dating a black girl. Well, Jon invited me to his house, but his mom wouldn't let me into his place because my dad wouldn't let Jon into our place! Thankfully, we had two teachers (our speech teacher and our photography teacher) who would let us hang out together at the school (after classes) doing homework and and different projects.  We also joined the chess team and went to other extra curricular activities together.

  Jon and I talked a lot about race issues. Jon was often tagged as an "Uncle Tom" for hanging out with me - a white kid.  This hurt him, but he didn't let it keep him from being my friend.

  Jon and I always felt that the day would come when more people would be like us than those who were more like our parents.  Our friendship gave us the hope that race could be overcome as a divisive thing.

  I still believe it today.    

  by keenekarl on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:37:23 AM PDT

•  My family was race neutral

  until I was around 15.  My dad was in the military and we mostly lived overseas, and in the 60's and 70's when I was growing up, the military was actually doing a pretty good job of stressing anti-racism and integration.

  Then my dad retired.  In the South.  Overnight, it was as though aliens came and kidnapped his brain.  

  My father (and subsequently, mother) knew the difference between right and wrong, and if any of their children had used the "n" word, we would have been horsewhipped.  That's what made my parents new-found racism so confusing for me.

  My dad (who died in 2003)went to his grave believing that black people were "n"s.  My mom, who still lives, continues to believe it.  My sister, who is her live in care-taker and one of the most loving women I've ever known, is beginning to succumb to my mother's racism.

  After I left home and moved to the West, it was years and years before I could even talk to them on the phone, let alone visit them.

  As my parents have neared their mortality date, I've tried to work on forgiveness, but it's been VERY difficult.

  by pasadena beggar on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:39:26 AM PDT