Daily Kos

What We Love

Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:10:01 AM PDT

I submit the following:

Science reporters love science

Sports reporters love sports

Political reporters hate politics

These are broad generalizations, no doubt. But I think there's a lot of truth to them, truth which can teach us about ourselves, about the traditional media, and about the relationship between us.

I think I'm on pretty safe ground when I say that science reporters love science. They thrill to the genome, the Hubble Deep Field, exobiology, exoplanetology, the Large Hadron Collider, stem cells, Schroedinger, Hawking, Wiles, Lake Vostok and coral reefs. Love of the subject is why they went into science reporting in the first place.

And a love of the subject is, I don't doubt, why science bloggers write about the topics they do. I think that makes for a lot of common ground between science bloggers and science reporters. That doesn't mean that science reporters don't face their fare share of criticism - here you have one reporter who doesn't debunk "intelligent design" sternly enough, here another who doesn't think educating the public about flu epidemics is in his job description.

But in the end, I have to imagine that if you hosted a conference for science reporters and bloggers, they'd have a damn good time together, swapping stories & trading jokes. And that's because they are passionate about the same things.

So too with sports. Sports reporters delight at the crack of the bat, the the triple, the triple-double, the hat-trick, the trick play, the Hail Mary, the home-run record, Musial, Mikita, Marino, the perfect bunt, and the perfect game. Of course sports reporters chose their profession out of love of the subject.

And the passionate sports fans who become sports bloggers, same thing. Once again, there's always the knuckle-headed reporter who insists that OPS is newfangled non-sense, or the embarrassing "homer" who can't bring himself to criticize the local team. But again, if you rented out the bleachers for a crowd of sports reporters and bloggers, they'd have a hell of a time at the game together, swapping stories & trading jokes.

But oh - the political reporters. They are a breed apart. They like politics-as-theater: Hillary's pantsuit, Obama's turban, the Clenis, the flight-suit, America's Mayor, dead-or-alive, he-said, she-said and all the world's a stage.

But they hate what we identify as politics: winning elections because they matter; ensuring our judiciary respects the Constitution; passing legislation to help the disadvantaged, the middle class, the environment, the world.

They hate all this because our brand of politics is about caring, and there is nothing more un-cool, more gauche, more unacceptable than caring. Like the astrophysics geek (of course), or the armchair sabermetrician, we politi-philes are nerds at heart - nerds who care about our chosen subject, and nerds who care about outcomes.

I think we all know that political reporters, on the other hand, are the ultimate post-ironic kool kidz, snickering in the corner at us propeller-heads who wear our hearts on our sleeves. Sports writers understand that, in the end, what they write about really almost always is just a game. The problem is that political reporters think the same way about their beat as well.

And this, I think, explains the antagonistic view many political reporters have toward bloggers. I think it almost boggles their minds that there are people out there - normal, ordinary people - who care about politics and aren't paid to do so. At the same time, we despise the Maureen Dowd-style obsessions shared by such a wide swath of the political reporting class, and we have a hard time respecting anyone who doesn't take politics as seriously as we do.

Put another way, political reporters hate what we love and love what we hate. This stands in stark contrast to the science and sports worlds - examples which I picked in part because these are other interests of mine, but also because I think they are good stand-ins for just about any other topics. Sports & science reporters & bloggers have plenty in common; political reporters and bloggers share little.

I'm not sure, though, that political reporters could really have any other m.o. The twentieth-century invention of "objective" reporting all but prohibits reporters from caring about political outcomes. This means that the kind of people attracted to political reporting almost necessarily have to find politics appealing only as some sort of grand kabuki.

It wasn't always this way - the slavish obeisance to "objectivity" replaced what used to be sharp-elbowed partisanship in American print media. But could our frayed modus vivendi with the political press corps actually be preferable to the alternative? In a future essay, I'll take a look at an illustrative episode from an earlier and very different media era - and then you can decide.

  • ::

Tags: bloggers, media, tradmed, traditional media (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 169 comments

  •  I love it (15+ / 0-)

    I had never really thought about it, but I think you're exactly right.  

    There really is little evidence of any appreciation of politics in political writing.  

    "A problem facing any American is a problem facing all Americans." Obama

    by otto on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:11:14 AM PDT

    •  and we're raining on their parade... (7+ / 0-)

      And this, I think, explains the antagonistic view many political reporters have toward bloggers. I think it almost boggles their minds that there are people out there - normal, ordinary people - who care about politics and aren't paid to do so.

      It's as if because bloggers aren't paid, that somehow, what they report isn't news. They wish...

      On second thought , let's not go to Camelot. 'Tis a silly place

      by o the umanity on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:15:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I definitely think you're on to something (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        esquimaux, o the umanity

        Bloggers are definitely competing for the political reporters' audience.  I think bloggers have pulled the curtain back on how political reporting is actually done, showing the numerous problems with how it is done.  I think part of the problem is that reporters see blogging as the cause of their ills, rather than the symptom.

        McCain: Less jobs, more war.

        by Unstable Isotope on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:09:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And what are the ills? (0+ / 0-)

          More divisiveness, as a tool unto itself, to name but one.

          The Political Reporters = Power Elite. And how dare we, Naive Political Bloggers write about Their Subjects--The Political Power Elite, who work for the same terrible, horrible government that they decry out of one side of their mouth, to...The Political Reporters.

          That's their job to report such lofty material, and how could a "blogger" possibly understand What It All Means?  

          On second thought , let's not go to Camelot. 'Tis a silly place

          by o the umanity on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 11:08:39 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Presidential Idol, baby (5+ / 0-)

      That's what it's all about anymore.

      I wrote about it here.

    •  As a student of politics and journalism... (6+ / 0-)

      I have to agree.

      The idea that a newspaper serves the public interest by not having an opinion may be partly why papers are a withering breed and not simply due to poor mechanisms for distribution.  

      People want to know what they need to know and if a paper (or any media outlet) fails to provide the context to understand and an avenue to change they serve only to upset and not to make progress.

      I look forward to your next piece.

      Visit Cotton Mouth to Support Mississippi's Progressives.

      by cottonmouthblog on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:20:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Some political writers (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      dash888, Eloise, o the umanity

      are lost fiction writers in disguise

      LIFE * I have lived enough of it (one year short of 8 decades) to know that I am still a pupil.

      by Luetta on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:26:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Politics as sport... (7+ / 0-)

      I think the trick here isn't that political writers hate politics, it's that political writers love sports.  The interesting element of politics to the average bystander is the drama of the competition.  The fights back and forth, the scandals, etc.  

      The real nuts and bolts of politics is absolutely and completely boring.  The press doesn't make much money on reporting things that are boring, nor does it interest them personally for the most part.  So they don't talk about it.

      At the peak of press quality there was some grandiose sense that they were a kind of noble class out there to enlighten the rest of us.  A time when an ardent liberal and an ardent conservative could sit down on a TV show and have a truly academic and serene discussion of issues.  They could do it because nobody expected that stuff to make money, it was just to inform and educate.

      These days, it's all about the money and thus it's all about the drama and conflict because that's what sells.

      •  Talking about sports...Obama now tied in OH! (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        dotster

        Obama still leads in TX and now tied in OH!  Take a look!

        I hearby announce my endorsement for Barack Obama. I know Senator Obama will want to get pictures with us together like he did with Senator Kennedy. ;)

        by RA on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:08:36 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Definitely another way of putting it (0+ / 0-)

        Sort of a parallel take on what I've proposed here, but I think arriving at the same end-point.

      •  I agree completely (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        zzyzx, esquimaux

        I don't think they actually hate politics.  The like the horserace aspect of it.  Didn't Chris Matthews write a whole book about how you should live your life like a political campaign?

        I think what they dislike is all the act of governing and all the details that go with it.  They seemed bored with explaining health care plans, economic plans, defense plans, etc. basically anything that can't be explained by a headline.

        McCain: Less jobs, more war.

        by Unstable Isotope on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:15:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yup... (0+ / 0-)

          There's no interesting narratives in the finer points of public policy.  You can talk about a fight between private and public health care systems, but beyond that, the details get dry pretty quickly.  The closest we've managed to come was a heated exchange on the value of mandates in a broader health care policy.  The only reason that even came up is that you have an election between two candidates that, broadly speaking, think the same way.  

          If it was just a McCain/Obama race, would we get into the serious weeds about health care policy?  No.  You'd have Obama say we need to fix it and McCain saying he wants to cut your taxes.

      •  They like politics-as-theater: (0+ / 0-)

        Wouldn't that make them theater critics.  See how smoothly Frank Rich made the transition.

    •  Except for Boston sports writers (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      otto, Eloise

      Who almost to a man seem to hate Boston sports teams (with a few notable exceptions, e.g., Mike Reiss and the Patriots).

    •  Well what has been lacking is a progressive (0+ / 0-)

      movement. Otherwise these "reporters" have been talking about non-critical topics lest they be accused of having a bias. Perhaps the "reporters" can learn from the progressive movement when they see us scrutize everyone, Republican and Democrat alike as a means of avoiding bias.

      There is a progressive movement. And if a progressive can be well described and have solid attributes and goals then the reporters might have something new to talk about.

      As I get older I realize how relative reality is. And I can see how powerful the media is just from the mere action of determining what to present. Is this not the truth? Story selection can present a bias now?

      Right now the progressive movement, powered by the internet, is changing ALL politics, including the media presentation of it. Russert, CNN, your local FOX affiliate had better hop to it to keep up because their comical irrelevance is on the horizon.

      Can Hillary beat McCain? Is she putting the SCOTUS at risk? And abortion rights?

      by Data Mining Telecom Fascist on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:08:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah (0+ / 0-)

      That's a really good way of explaining it, David.

      "And life is grand/and I will say this at the risk of falling from favor/With those of you who have appointed yourselves/To expect us to say something darker."

      by Oregon Bear on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 01:07:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Perhaps Olberman is the exception (12+ / 0-)

    but he started out in sports so that gives him a leg up.

    •  many of earlier generations started in sports (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Samer, Eloise, Dewey Kneadleeders

      for example, James "Scotty" Reston of the NY Times started with sports.  

      do we still have a Republic and a Constitution if our elected officials will not stand up for them on our behalf?

      by teacherken on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:16:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  And the opposite is true of George Will, who (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Eloise

      can write about baseball with some brilliance; but too often goes off the deep end with self-glorification in his political thinking/writing.

      •  I was disappointed in his sports writing. (0+ / 0-)

        I only read his first baseball book, the one on fielding. He had a good eye for detail, but poor judgment about the scale of importance of the things he was observing.

        Lobbyists are just the piano players in the whorehouse; you could abolish them and the girls upstairs would still be doing business.--al Fubar -6.50 -5.69

        by Dvd Avins on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:27:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Will (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        zzyzx

        I wish Will could analyze politics in the same way he could analyze baseball.

        And conversely come to think of it, if sports reporters gave more attention to the colors on uniforms or different various personality quirks like political reporters do, nobody would take them seriously.

        ...someday - the armies of bitterness will all be going the same way. And they'll all walk together, and there'll be a dead terror from it. --Steinbeck

        by Seldom Seen on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:58:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Another big glaring exception - newsweeklies (7+ / 0-)

      The alternative newspaper in my city is the last stand of real political journalism for miles around, and contrary to the trend, they are very appreciative of the blogging community here.

      I don't know if this is true for other cities, but for the record, the journalists at the Memphis Flyer love politics for all the right reasons.

      (-5.88, -6.46) Democracy is what happens between elections.

      by autoegocrat on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:21:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree (6+ / 0-)

        Our 'alternative' weekly is the only paper here (in Phoenix) that has any true political reporting.  They have suffered for that at the hands of the Republican county attorney. Reporters like Paul Rubin, John Dougherty and Amy Silverman are priceless resources. There are many issues we never would have discovered (including McCain's many transgressions) if not for the New Times.

        Impeachment is not a constitutional crisis. We are in a constitutional crisis already. Impeachment is the cure.

        by ZAPatty on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:27:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Mad props to MadTown's "Isthmus" weekly. (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          ZAPatty, biscobosco, Eloise

          They provide the balance to the pro-biz am daily.

          In addition to opening the door to my political awareness, that's where I found Tom Tommorow!

          Bottled hot water for dehydrated babies? WTF?!

          by JVolvo on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:05:31 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  yeah. we have the phoenix new times to thank (4+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          zzyzx, ZAPatty, JVolvo, Bodhiness

          for renzi   stories

          I have a friend who works in the newspaper business and is a "real reporter".  He bemoans the loss of "real reporting"  Due to corporatization of newspapers, and loss of income the money for investigative journalism is slashed.

          ButI think it is important to separate real journalists from political pundits, and not to tar everyone working in journalism with the same brush.

          I think many bloggers have more in common with these people than we do the fluff journalists and opinion trendsetters.

          There are a few people I really respect writing now.  one stellar example is Charlie Savage, in the Boston Globe  He is obviously someone who is not afraid to speak truth to power.

          Another example is Amy Goodman and her radio/tv show  
          Democracy Now I will never forget their reporting during the events after 9/11 heres a recent story http://www.democracynow.org/...

          There are others. I think that a passion for 'knowing the truth' about what is going on politically drives many people here, and that is the same thing which drives the best reporters.

          I suspect the best political reporters like Charlie Savage and Amy Goodman have more in common with the types of bloggers who are "truth seekers" - people like emptywheel (Jane Harman) Dengre, etc...

    •  I, too, love baseball; too bad about the Yankees (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Eloise

      fouls, excesses and immoderate behavior are scored ZERO at Over the Line, Smokey!

      by seesdifferent on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:37:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  "From way downtown - Bang" His h/t to the (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Eloise

      old-time Celtic radio guy.

      I loved Keith in his SC days; passion for the game (any) and the snarky edge.  He and Dan Patrick were a great duo.

      Bottled hot water for dehydrated babies? WTF?!

      by JVolvo on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:55:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The Key Transformtion: Politics as Entertainment (13+ / 0-)

    Overlooked in the discussions of "objectivity" in political reporting is the transformation of politics itself into a new form entertainment.

    Last month, I did a presentation on just this point titled "That's Entertainment; Politics as Theater in Campaign '08."

    Here's the nutshell description of the talk:

    What could be the decisive day for both the Democratic and Republican 2008 White House hopefuls arrives even as the transformation of American politics into theater is almost complete.

    Politics must now compete with an oversupply of entertainment and information sources, from television, radio, books, newspapers and magazines to web sites, blogs, online video, Podcasts and more. The result is a 21st century "infotainment complex" where politics, news, opinion and entertainment merge. Politics itself is now entertainment, part drama and part competition in a passion play where confrontation, conflict and good versus evil rule the day. The journalistic search for objective truth is replaced by the presentation of ideological clashes with two - and only two - sides.

    This talk examines the disturbing implications for campaign '08 and American democracy itself when a well-informed citizenry devolves into what Al Gore deemed the "well amused audience."

    For a video of the talk as well as the slides, see:
    "That's Entertainment; Politics as Theater in Campaign '08."

  •  When do you think the transition happened? (4+ / 0-)

    At some point, political reporters must have cared about politics.  When did it shift from reporting to reviewing?

    Now, go spread some peace, love and understanding. Use force if necessary. - Phil N DeBlanc

    by lineatus on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:15:08 AM PDT

    •  probably when everything else (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Ed in Montana, Eloise, JVolvo, jds1978

      started going downhill--during the Reagan years...

      On second thought , let's not go to Camelot. 'Tis a silly place

      by o the umanity on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:16:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  the rise of the internet (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Eloise, JVolvo

      newspaper reporters, and even radio & TV news reporters, rarely "break" stories anymore. They have to justify their existance, hence the transition from "reporting" to "reviewing" i.e. commenting (and often enflaming).

      see my comment downthread for more.

      I remember a time when the American President was the leader of the free world. ****** Repeat after me: "Neoconservatism has failed America."

      by land of the free on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:27:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  but it feels like this has been going on (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        biscobosco, Eloise, land of the free

        since well before there was widespread internet access.

        Now, go spread some peace, love and understanding. Use force if necessary. - Phil N DeBlanc

        by lineatus on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:39:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  in the news biz, it's been much more (5+ / 0-)

          of an issue in the past 10-15 years. I made the decision to not pursue a new career in journalism about 15 years ago (I was particularly drawn to political journalism) in great part because of how "the newspapers are a dying breed", the competition and consolidation of media ownership in the past 15 years has caused a major crunch on news resources.

          If you look back at the type of reporting we had in the 60s, 70s, 80s, there was far less competition for the news consumer. Reporting was much more in-depth, scoops caused people to read or tune in. You were not scooped by the internet - something that happens rather frequently now.

          Journalists today have to compete against us. Several years ago, I had a real bias against blogs, as I believed they were very unbiased, could easily spread false rumors, and it is hard as a consumer to understand the motiviation behind WHO is writing and be able to scrutinize the accuracy. As a news consumer in previous decades, I really didn't scrutinize the veracity of a published report from a reputable news service. Now, I scrutinize everything. This makes journalists more defensive, particularly in the past few years when it's clear that many blogs, while having biases (like this one), can deliver outstanding, fair reporting.

          The competition for the news consumer is VERY stiff. As consumers, we have many resources available at our fingertips to get different slants on the same story. It makes journalists very defensive, when every time they present a report, there are hundreds of bloggers who are at least as well informed on the topic as the reporter him/herself.

          I remember a time when the American President was the leader of the free world. ****** Repeat after me: "Neoconservatism has failed America."

          by land of the free on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:48:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Thank you for your perspective (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            BarbinMD, land of the free

            I think the years before I found blogs almost like the dark ages.  I understood things were going on, especially with the Clinton impeachment but was stuck reading only superficial descriptions of what was really going on.  Now I have a wealth of information at my fingertips and I can check multiple sources to help make up my mind.

            McCain: Less jobs, more war.

            by Unstable Isotope on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:19:13 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  typo (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            biscobosco

            I just realized this typo in the third paragraph:

            Journalists today have to compete against us. Several years ago, I had a real bias against blogs, as I believed they were very unbiased, could easily spread false rumors, and it is hard as a consumer to understand the motiviation behind WHO is writing and be able to scrutinize the accuracy.

            I should probably also add that I think a lot of journalists (and a large percentage of news consumers) STILL believe what I used to believe about blogs. There is a strong sense that blogs are written often by anonymous people, often with an axe to grind or a story to sell. It was always believed that the editorial staff at a paper would ensure that the journalist's biases are minimized or eliminated, that the most important part of news was accuracy. In today's news biz, there are a lot of well-educated skeptics that can easily amplify their criticism to news consumers around the world. It makes journalists, editors, and those who operate news outlets very defensive and edgy. The great result is that we can get MORE information, accurate information that has been vetted through many sources. It gives the consumer much more power to scrutinize and evaluate the news they receive.

            I remember a time when the American President was the leader of the free world. ****** Repeat after me: "Neoconservatism has failed America."

            by land of the free on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 03:56:35 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  yup, see my comment below (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Eloise, land of the free

        Dulce bellum inexpertis [War is sweet only to those who have no experience of it].

        by Fatherflot on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:00:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  That's a good question (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      jnhobbs, lineatus

      And I admit I'm not an expert on this. But my understanding is that the transformation from a partisan media to a supposedly more "objective" media really got underway in the first part of the 20th century. I would be, though, that there are media historians among this community who could lay it out in greater detail.

      •  The rise of "objectivity" (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        DavidNYC, lineatus

        was in the early 20th century. Before that, the picture was a little more complicated - it wasn't just partisan vs. non-partisan, it was sensationalist vs. not, different ideas of what type of information was important to convey in competition with each other. I highly recommend Michael Schudson's Discovering the News.

    •  When news divisions were made to be profit (6+ / 0-)

      centers. Late seventies, early eighties. Corporate investment in media changed the way companies viewed their news departments. Once sacred cows, news departments had to produce revenue and cut costs. They were stripped of analytical resources and investigative reporters in favor highly paid faces who could bring in ratings. News shows became more regularly formmated: stories that evoked fear or hatred (crime, fires); warm fuzzies (human interest, heroic acts); and acts of God weather and natural disasters. "Network" was produced in 1976, so that gives you some idea of the time frame. Reagan's revoking of the Equal Time provision and general laissez faire attitude toward network broadcasting and corporate ownership certainly greased the skids.

      I have an irrational faith in reason.

      by the fan man on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:11:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think it happened when political reporters . . (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      tmo, the fan man, lineatus

      . . . became celebrities. That's when people stopped becoming reporters because they loved politics, and started becoming reporters because they craved fame.

  •  Ask the sociologists what "we" love. (4+ / 0-)

    But they hate what we identify as politics: winning elections because they matter; ensuring our judiciary respects the Constitution; passing legislation to help the disadvantaged, the middle class, the environment, the world.

    The sociologists on Madison Ave. who tag us like geese, watch us, and turn our lives into quantifiable data would disagree that this is what Americans love about politics.

    We want to pick teams like football, root for our side, win or loose, rationalize our decisions, keep the competition and derision going.... This is what sells. And the media and political campaigns are about selling. Not issues.

    •  Sociology vs marketing (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Eloise

      I think the transition from/difference between sociology as a social science to marketing, consuming and selling was a key point.

      In Asia you often hear an expression, "same-same but different", that applies here.

      "Our time has come, our movement is real, and change is coming to America."

      by lizah on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:00:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I would not paint political reporters universally (5+ / 0-)

    I have in the past few years gotten to know some personally, some through my participation here and at Yearlykos, others because I recognize them and find that they are willing to engage in conversation, and sometimes even come to talk with my students.

    I know some who started as political activitists and then got fascinated by the details and found a niche on which they focused -  I do not think you can say of Chuck Todd that he hates politics, for example.  He started by working for Tom Harkin in Iowa years ago.

    I see others who have a passionate concern about the impact of politics on our society, and write that way - for all the criticism some offer of him I would put Mark Shields in that category.

    It is unfortunate that too much of the coverage of politics we get is driven by the desire to ahcieve ratings, or get the book contract, or prove to be more clever than the other people, or to have the chance to appear on TV shows and thereby boost one's lecture fees.   Nevertheless there are many on the political beat who seek to understand how things are changing, and I think you do not allow for how many there actually are.  

    To be sure, there are many who are too consumed with keeping their place, or their own power and influence, but there are also those, often somewhat younger, who grasp what is different.  Even some more senior writers are attempting to come to grip with how politics might be changing.

    peace.

    do we still have a Republic and a Constitution if our elected officials will not stand up for them on our behalf?

    by teacherken on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:15:44 AM PDT

    •  How Can You Say You "Got to Know"... (0+ / 0-)

      ...a political reporter because you were at Yearly Kos?  

      Asking you a couple questions isn't getting to know someone.

      And Chuck Todd isn't a political reporter.  He's an analyst who didn't come up via newspapers or local news.  

      The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

      by DHinMI on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:23:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  it goes far beyond one or two conversations (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Geenius at Wrok, biscobosco, Eloise

        at least with a couple of people where the relationships are ongoing, albeit somewhat infrequent . .  I prefer to leave it at that, but in at least two cases of well known writers not mentioned in my comment the contact is ongoing, outside of the yearly gettogethers

        regardless of how Chuck Todd came up, he does play a role in political coverage, and he offers more than pure analysis - he also offers judgments on MSNBC.   And he clearly loves politics.

        I do not disagree with David that far too many of those who serve as the purported gatekeepers seem not to like politics unless it fits the way they think it should be.   I am merely saying that it is not universal, that there are exceptions.   And in reading a wide array of writers, some of whom my only contact is reading their work or watching them on occasional television appearances, I see no evidence that they hate the field they choose to cover.

        Or as ny logic teacher once said:  All universal statements are false, including this one.

        do we still have a Republic and a Constitution if our elected officials will not stand up for them on our behalf?

        by teacherken on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:02:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Then Why Mention Yearly Kos? (0+ / 0-)

          I would be very surprised if anyone at YK who was interviewed by a reporter thought they got to know that reporter really well.  When you say that you do, it sort of suggests that you had extra-special coverage or attention from them, and could lead people to think that somehow you were seen as more special than the rest of the Kossacks in attendence.

          Surely that's not your intention, is it?

          The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

          by DHinMI on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:08:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  because in several cases it started relationships (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            biscobosco, land of the free

            with people who were interested in getting to know and understand more, That's the only reason I mentioned.   And it has nothing to do with my being special and was not intended that way. Sorry if it came across that way.

            In Las Vegas, in particular, there were reporters who seemed genuinely interested in attempting to understand the phenomenon. Many acknowledged that they were surprised - at the average age of participants, and on occasion on the amount of expertise some of the participants brought to the table.  

            As far as my being interviewed -  I was part of one piece that really focused on Tom Vilsack, and think  was mentioned in two others, one not particularly complimentary.  That was Vegas.  I am unaware that I was even mentioned in coverage from Chicago.  For both events, there were people who were rightly far more visible than was I.  

            Because I live in the DC area I frequently encounter people in the political press, quite often outside of political situations - Starbucks, Supermarkets, their kids attend a school at which I teach, and so on.  I also like you encounter them in political settings as well.

            I believe that they are a mixed bag, just as are bloggers.  There are some who are jerks, but there are also those who are passionate about their field, and make serious effort to try to understand it.  

            I think I have said anything constructive I have to offer on this topic.

            Peace.

            do we still have a Republic and a Constitution if our elected officials will not stand up for them on our behalf?

            by teacherken on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:21:45 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  I think David's pretty clear here. (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      DavidNYC, seabos84

      These are broad generalizations, no doubt. But I think there's a lot of truth to them, truth which can teach us about ourselves, about the traditional media, and about the relationship between us.

      Seems pretty straightforward to me. They're generalizations, but one that can be useful in framing a discussion.

      Chuck Todd represents a very different perspective and a very different mission. The Hotline, as they say, "covers the coverage." I'm sure he does have a different outlook on politics than a political reporter would. But so would anybody whose job is something other than political reporter.

  •  They hate politics because the (7+ / 0-)

    outcomes unlike science and sports are not controllled by experts and professionals.  The outcomes are controlled by plebians - the great "unwashed" - the know nothings!  Hard to report outcomes controlled by know nothings by those who think they know everything.

  •  Well, speaking for myself, what I hate is having (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Geenius at Wrok, Eloise

    others (in particular, political reporters) tell me what and how to think. And I think I'm far from being alone. On the other hand, most political reporting by the traditional media is now inseparable from spin and other subtle and not-so-subtle attempts at opinion manipulation, rather than straightforward opinion.

    The problem is that the purpose of bloggers and reporters are mostly at odds: information dressed as opinion, for the former, and covert opinion dressed as information, for the latter.

  •  Funny thing (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Audio Guy

    ...i haven't paid a lick of attention to mainstream political news since the Lewinsky scandal.

    You Sacrifice the Thing You Love the Most. I Love My Guitar - Jimi Hendrix

    by jds1978 on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:19:47 AM PDT

  •  Another cool thing about science bloggers (10+ / 0-)

    is that we can deal with being challenged.  We want to find the right answers, and if new data comes along, we consider it.  We are trained for that in our lab, too--your lab mates challenge you to defend yourself, so that you don't make the lab look bad with half-baked stuff.

    ScienceBlogs  And there's a lot of political commentary over there, too :)  

    And there was a great Science Blogging conference.  Look for it next year if you are interested in that sort of thing.  I was surprised at the traditional media types who were there.

    Science Blogging

  •  Astute Observations David (10+ / 0-)

    But you must take into account the 30-year-plus campaign from the right wing to get Americans to hate government, and not to care about politics. Don't worry about FISA, domestic spying, un-balanaced budgets and war crimes. Our conservative leaders will take care of all of it.

    Modern political reporters are reflective of this uncaring attitude. The more people that pay attention to politics as entertainment, the expensive haircuts, the earth-tone clothes the funny-sounding middle name, the less people pay attention to politics as a tool for good government. Since government is the problem, according to Ronald Reagan and his sycophants, then politics involving concerned citizens must be useless.

    But enough of this. I have to go finish reading Maureen Dowd.

    Who will stop this war of lies? Keith Olbermann May 23rd, 2007

    by Ed in Montana on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:20:03 AM PDT

  •  The Problem of Objectivity (5+ / 0-)

    Of course, not all political writers hate politics.  Those writing in our leading opinion magazines, The Nation, The National Review, The New Repubica, etc., find that politics does matter and don't necessarily mock those of us who think it matters.  Because these are journals of opinion, usually with a set of preferred opinions, ideas and the consequences of elections matter very much.

    This is the problem of objectivity.  The political writers of the mainstream media have to be "objective." As soon as they begin to explore whether who wins an eleciton matters, they can begin to lose their "objectivity."  

    As a consequence, the horse race aspect of the election, the unfiltered reporting of what the campaigns are saying about themselves and the opponents, the general money raising, are all relatively safe topics.  

    And, of course, issues of personal style seem safe.  

    All politicians must have an above average ego to participate in the process.  This makes them easy targets of the Dowds of this world who trade in sharp barbs about personality. And, after all, bleeding heart liberal is not thought of as a term of endearment.  We actually think the world can be made better.  It is so much more fun to show that ALL human beings are flawed.  

    Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren. Bertolt Brecht

    by MoDem on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:22:39 AM PDT

    •  The pretense of objectivity is the issue (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Eloise

      Were mainstream journalists objective covering Whitewater or Monika? Objective covering the "inventor of the internet"? Reporters don't hate politics, they hate thinking for themselves. They don't have or are not permitted the resources to fact check. I don't see why a reporter cannot have a personal favorite in the race and still not objectivly report if there is anything to what a candidate spouts off about. The lead up to Iraq is the perfect example of a political press that isn't.
      Objectivity is not the enemy, it is the hidden agenda to cripple any attempt at it that is the enemy. Why do we still see "global warming doesn't exist" stories. Objectivity? hardly.

      I have an irrational faith in reason.

      by the fan man on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:53:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  OT just read about your stepfather (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      MoDem, Unstable Isotope, Eloise

      I am so sorry to hear, he was a delightful man.  I sat with you two at YK.

      I responded to a comment of yours a few weeks back, asking you to say hi to him for me.  I guess you didn't see it, so just now I checked your profile for an email address and saw the diary you wrote.

      I will toast him tonight, he was wonderful and I am so sorry for your loss.

      "Our time has come, our movement is real, and change is coming to America."

      by lizah on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:06:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thank you (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        lizah

        I thought I had responded to your question about my stepfather.

        It is possible I was distracted and did not post it.

        Again, thank you for your kind words.

        Today I have been thinking how much I miss sharing with him the political changes.

        Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren. Bertolt Brecht

        by MoDem on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 12:34:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Sports Reporters Hate Sports (4+ / 0-)

    I think you're wrong about Sports Reporters, especially beat reporters.  They hate sports.  They got into it because they loved it, but the ones who have been around for awhile grow to hate it.  Bill Simmons, the Sports Guy, writes about this frequently, and why he didn't want to be somebody who was in the locker room day after day.

    Sports bloggers love sports.  They're removed enough to be passionate about it.

    •  Bingo (5+ / 0-)

      And Simmons especially says this about guys who've been around for a while. There are exceptions--Bill, being a Boston sports fan as I am, would agree that Bob Ryan is one--he really still loves sports. Peter Gammons, too. But Dan Shaughnessy hates sports. Gerry Callahan hates sports. A lot of the long-time guys you'd see on The Sports Reporters or Around The Horn, too. Mike Lupica, Jay Mariotti, Skip Bayless--these guys hate sports.

      And I think the reasons are the same why some political reporters hate politics--because the naivete has worn off. These guys grow up loving sports, get a job writing about it, get into the locker rooms---and realize that many of their heroes are complete assholes. I'll bet politics is very similar.

      Remember: if it's close, they'll steal it.

      by ChurchofBruce on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:03:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You may well be right (0+ / 0-)

      But is it that they hate sports reporting - ie, they hate their jobs - or do they hate sports, period? It sounds a bit more to me like it's the former, rather than the latter.

    •  agreed (0+ / 0-)

      enough years of attempting to interview pampered "student-athletes" and prima donna coaches will do that to you.  There are exceptions of course, but you can sense the contempt in the work of more than a few sports journalists.

      I am aware of all internet traditions

      by mcfly on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:22:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Interesting analysis. Another point of view (2+ / 0-)

    is that many political reporters really DO love politics. However, many political reporters have become jaded. Consider this:

    1. When it comes to elections, using the same tried & true methods always gives you predictable results. It's surely not surprising that a candidate who best promotes him or herself as the most effective "agent of change" will be most electable when the country is in bad shape. This means covering political races can get boring, unless you can find some new way of saying the same old stuff. This is much like the challenge sports writers get: how many different ways can you ask "gee, what's your strategy tonight" and "how did you feel about that loss/win"?

    This means they can generate a lot more "excitement" and buzz when they can cover controversy: corruption, hypocricy, etcetera.

    1. They're facing extreme pressure to compete against the internet, in order to justify their existance.

    First, think about newspaper writers: unless you are writing in-depth investigative stories about obscure topics, you will never be "breaking news". The TV and internet will always beat you to the news consumers. This means that, if you don't have an exclusive story with an angle no one has written about, you have to basically regurgitate news that the consumers already HAVE. You need to write something provocative, fresh, or controversial to justify your job.

    Next, think about the TV "news" talk shows. Again, much of what they report has already reached internet news readers. The way they keep ratings is to hype anything controversial AND to get people to say things on air they wouldn't have said if they had a moment to think it through. To keep viewership up, they have to obsess on whatever pushes the buttons of viewers.

    In conclusion, I think a LOT of political reporters really love politics. Many still do. However, the reporters that are "most successful" in today's news market are those who thrive on hyping controversy and covering the "horse race" like it's a sporting event. I'm not sure that means these successful journalists/talking heads don't love pure politics. It think it means that, in order to keep their jobs, they have to look at their careers in a whole new way. Many of the successful ones love this type of crap... some of them hate it, but do it to stay employed.

    I remember a time when the American President was the leader of the free world. ****** Repeat after me: "Neoconservatism has failed America."

    by land of the free on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:24:23 AM PDT

    •  Hmm, I don't know (0+ / 0-)

      There are a lot of controversies they never report on, the FISA story could be done dramatically if there were a will to do so for example.  But  Hillary's laugh or Obama's ethnic outfit are easier to do.

      If the will were there we would see a lot more dramatic interpretations of serious stuff, but we don't.  What we see is limited, fitting into the same old script year after year.

      Any journalist could score a serious scoop by simply reporting on actual details of bills, but again and again they go for the he said-she said model.

      I wish they would use more of a sports attitude towards politics, we would be in better shape.  "Well I'll tell you Jim, the Dems started '06 looking strong but since then have done nothing but lose lose lose.  Will they get their game back?  We'll find out tomorrow, live from the floor, as they vote on FISA.  Dodd made some controversial remarks, let's see if Captain Reid talks it up and gets them fired up and ready to go.  In the meantime, Jenny is going to be on taking us through the play by play from yesterday's debate.  Jenny?"

      "Our time has come, our movement is real, and change is coming to America."

      by lizah on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:25:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Great Essay! (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    DavidNYC, Eloise

    This is what I love about Daily Kos. Essays like this that get you thinking in a different direction.

    Your point makes a lot of sense. But I'm not sure they have an actual distain for politics though. I think it's more the cynicism that ovetakes them early in their career starts to poison them. One or the other though, the outcome is the same.

    It turns out news delivered on a for-profit basis is a bad business model for democracy.

    by George Lynch on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:24:54 AM PDT

  •  The American Media... (8+ / 0-)

    ...died in the late 1980s.  What we have is a ghastly zombie wearing a dead man's skin masquerading as the deceased.

    Two or three years ago, I was being interviewed by a journalist from the French rightie newspaper LE FIGARO; afterwards, we chatted about American politics.

    He told me that papers like the NY TIMES or WAPO were once held on a pedestal, a goal to be aspired to. But today, the Foreign Press reads them mostly to find out what the US Government thinks or wants us to know. Not all the time, but mostly.

    I can't think of a more tragic comment.

    OVER HERE: AN AMERICAN EXPAT IN THE SOUTH OF FRANCE, is now available on Amazon US

    by Lupin on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:26:16 AM PDT

  •   Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail '72 (4+ / 0-)

    Hunter Thomson vividly exposed the campaign press as a clique obsessed with status among themselves. Believing in anything that happened on the the campaign exposed the reporter as a fool to be shunned by his clique.

  •  They love political strategy ... (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Eloise, land of the free, Metatations

    so that's what they cover.

    It's an interesting part of politics, but it's neither the only part, nor even the only interesting part.

    I am neither bitter nor cynical but I do wish there was less immaturity in political thinking. -- FDR

    by Moresby on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 09:28:18 AM PDT

    •  tactics and strategy (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Geenius at Wrok, Moresby, Eloise

      are surface elements that are easy to understand.  actually discussing the merits of policy seems to be far beyond the ability of our punditocracy.  I'm still loving the John Stewart smackdown of Chris Mathews when he presented his latest pile of garbage, Life as a Campaign.  That book so purely encapsulates the thinking of our bloviating class.

      •  Well, after the last debate ... (0+ / 0-)

        Tweety said that there was no point for them to be discussing universal health care because we don't have universal health care.

        Um ... yeah ... I didn't understand either.

        I am neither bitter nor cynical but I do wish there was less immaturity in political thinking. -- FDR

        by Moresby on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 12:40:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Political Reporters (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Geenius at Wrok, Dvd Avins, mcfly, Eloise

    do not apply the rigor to their reporting that sports reporters do to theirs.

    I spent a significant amount of time last summer investigating the bounces from Iowa to New Hampshire, and out of New Hampshire.  What astonished me is this:

    no one had done this analysis before

    I once talked to James Pindell of the Boston Globe about this.  If someone on the sports pages of the Globe wrote a piece about scoring runs and failed to consider an obscure baseball statistic, he would be absolutely ridiculed.  Sports talk shows would eat him for lunch. Pindell actually volunteered to help me collect the data BECAUSE NO ONE ELSE HAD DONE IT!

    He agreed - we need a Bill James for politics.  

    Political reporters write stuff all the time which is completely  ignorant of basic political history and polling, and they get away with it.

    My favorite example, Norah O'Donnell on MSNBC actually said this about Kerry's win in New Hampshire in 2004 - "Big whoop".  A more ignorant statement about presidential politics I cannot imagine.

  •  to be a political reporter (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    biscobosco

    is to be a cynic, because politicians try to use the press cynically. And the impact of a politician using the press cynically is much greater than a sports figure using the press cynically.

    What you're really saying is that you think political reporters treat activists and bloggers as nerds and junkies. That's probably true.

    The problem isn't political reporters, it's consolidated corporate media that focuses on irrelevancies over substance.

  •  Hunter Thompson: Poltical, Sports writers same. (4+ / 0-)

    Thompson's argument was both are the biggest liars in the journalism trade, both in league (pardon the pun) with the "owners" to maintain patently false images of the "games" by failing to report on the facts.

  •  You know... (3+ / 0-)

    I really don't give a rat's ass what Timmeh and Tweety think about me.

    I think they're both assholes.

    •  People who kn