Midday Open Thread

• McCain vs. McCain on Iraq.
• Hahahahaha!

  "Always! I mean, I can't keep up with him. And they like him, too." -- Charles Crist Sr., on his FL gov son's fondness for women, St. Petersburg Times, 3/22.

• This is no way to try to end a war.
• We told them so.
• Atrios on the campaign. Worth the read.
• Not letting the fact that he wasn't so good at "the math" in 2006, Karl Rove is right back at it.

  So, to summarize, Karl Rove — the alleged strategic genius of the Republican Party — believes the Dems’ withdrawal plans are unpopular with the public, while the Bush administration policy is gaining favor.

  Let's just hope that the Republicans keep listening to him.

• Dashing late night comedians' hopes for good, Larry Craig did not file by Friday's deadline for reelection. But there's still some fun in the Idaho Senate race for Republicans. They've got Pro-Life on the ballot.
• Valley Forge: sacred ground or theme park?
• Denver evangelicals have taken over the Denver Museum of Nature & Science's evolution exhibit and are now offering regular tours teaching creationism. Museum officials are not happy. -- Scout Finch

•  The fact that they even have to quote

  his father on something like that...

  Leave the guy alone.  If he wants to remain in the closet, let him.  It's his own personal struggle.

  by AUBoy2007 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:31:04 AM PDT

  •  He can stay in the closet.

    I could care less. But stop supporting our enemies and start actively working to defeat the "marriage ban" on the ballot this year. I find it hard to forgive those who live in glass houses and throw stones or allow stones to be thrown at others.

    by MantisOahu on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:36:53 AM PDT

    •  He did pull the State's funding of the

      anti-marriage group.  That's plus.  Not nearly far enough, however.

      by AUBoy2007 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 04:19:13 PM PDT

  •  Children should be offlimits generally

    even if the parent is a politician unless nepotism or such is involved. However, the GOP has made it clear that they have no qualms about involving children but it is not right.

    by entlord1 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:37:32 AM PDT

    •  ???

      Children that are governors should be off limits?

      by discocarp on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:38:36 AM PDT

      •  Sorry but I have been at work since

        3AM and I refuse to make sense at this juncture in my day.

        by entlord1 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:59:20 AM PDT

        •  lol

          Understood - been there, done that. :) Get some sleep!

          by discocarp on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:04:53 PM PDT

        •  LOL! I recommend caffeine! :) n/t

          by llamaRCA on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:12:38 PM PDT

  •  Now recruiting.....

    diarists for NOLA/Gulf Blogathon #2 which will be in April! For more information or to participate, see this diary!

    by Louisiana 1976 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:51:06 AM PDT

•  Please unrecommend that Clinton Misspoke diary

  The "misspelled" name in the title has not been fixed.

  The diary has got to go...

  by Silence Do Good on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:31:13 AM PDT

  •  Please unrecommend that Clinton Misspoke diary

    this needed to be echoed..

    btw, the story is also now in the Observer as well:

    http://www.observer.com/...

    by MasterSitsu on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:35:17 AM PDT

    •  it has now been fixed.

      nothing to see here

      by Silence Do Good on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:03:30 PM PDT

•  They'd Mine for Ore and Drill for Oil

  National Monuments or Not

  by JML9999 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:31:38 AM PDT

•  Can somebody please....

  ... stake Karl Rove through the heart and stuff his mouth with garlic already?

  by Archangel on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:32:31 AM PDT

  •  What a waste of garlic! n/t

    by Jbeaudill on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:45:14 AM PDT

    •  The Long Awaited Sacrifice For Our Country

      I'd think of it as an investment.

      by Gooserock on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:12:28 PM PDT

•  I remember interviewing

  the chairman of the Department of Vertebrate Paleontology at the American Museum of Natural History back in the early 1990s, and asking him how much flak he got from creationists.

  "Oh, we used to get some," he said, "but no longer. We're living in a more evolved time now."

  I doubt he ever would have guessed that we'd still be fighting those same battles in 2008. It's sickening.

  by JoeW on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:33:05 AM PDT

  •  Evolutionist Of All People Should Know Evolution

    does not proceed "upward."

    Our society is still evolving, and creationism and fundamentalism are adaptive for more and more people.

    If they weren't, their numbers and influence would be declining.

    by Gooserock on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:36:43 AM PDT

    •  Of course it is

      I was discussing with someone today the amount of material that college freshmen have to absorb while he was decrying the death of the classical education. He cited his grandfather graduating from Dartmouth with 8 years of Latin and 4 years of Greek. However, he had no reply when I asked how many years of Inorganic Chemistry or Computer Science the gentleman had had.

      by entlord1 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:40:17 AM PDT

      •  I remember reading somewhere,

        sorry I can't cite this, and I might have the numbers wrong, that 50% of all human knowledge has been learned in the past 50 years. It might be 20 years.

        I also remember reading that the some total amount of knowledge that Joe Schmoe needed in the mid 19th century could be reprinted in one edition of the Sunday NY Times.

        by HugoDog on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:04:38 PM PDT

    •  Yes, but....

      the evolution of scientific knowledge does, in most cases, proceed "upward."

      Most people no longer believe that the earth is flat, or that the sun revolves around us, or that the stars are holes in the great celestial bowl, or, for that matter, that the Iguanodon was a giant lizard.

      I think that the scientists at the Museum could defensibly have thought that creationism would have gone the same way as the above beliefs, which too were once deeply held.

      by JoeW on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:47:11 AM PDT

      •  Oh Absolutely Yes. Problem Is, Society Does Not

        necessarily, and society has a great deal to say about who will know what and say what about science.

        by Gooserock on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:13:52 PM PDT

        •  That's for sure

          and when fear and religion get wrapped up in it...well, that paleontologist was naive.

          I used to write about dinosaurs and other ancient creatures, and got my share of (really quite polite) "evidence" that I was misguided.

          by JoeW on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:30:43 PM PDT

    •  but then, they also know the difference

      between "biological evolution" and "social evolution".

      Alas, most people don't.

      by Lenny Flank on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 04:17:03 PM PDT

  •  That creationist story

    was on Nightline in its entirety. There was a point where the wacko was telling kids "They date the rocks by the dinosaurs and they date the dinosaurs by the rock layer and they date the rock layer by the dinosaur and on and on. What's that called, kids?" And all the kids yell, "Circular reasoning!" But the voiceover says, "Conveniently, the wacko has his back to an exhibit on radiocarbon dating." And when the interviewer asked the wacko about it later, he said, "Oh, that stuff doesn't really work."

    I don't know if the full story is online anywhere but it's pretty priceless. These guys may have their story down pat, but they're clueless when it comes to winging it. They told the interviewer something about how people used to live a thousand years and the interviewer asked them how many generations that would be from, I think, Adam to Abraham or something and the guys looked dumbfounded and started counting on their fingers (and toes) and gave a completely wrong answer.  If this is biblical science, YIKES!!

    -5.88, -6.82

    by Debby on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:05:43 PM PDT

    •  Dear Colorado,

      You have a lot of strange religious fanatics in your state.

      Signed,

      Utah

      by Utahrd on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:14:08 PM PDT

    •  That's because they know the science doesn't

      back them. They aren't scientists, they're propagandists. They are skillfully confusing kids with pseudo-science so that when they are exposed to REAL scientific explanations, they will refuse to listen.

      Deplorable, but parents, religious leaders, governments, and lately corporations, have been doing this to the young for eons. There's no solution but to keep working to improve science. Remember, until the last 300-400 years, the shamans had it ALL their way. Only in the last 100 or so has science won the day in our classrooms.

      by davewill on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:26:59 PM PDT

      •  Science Education at an Early Age is Important

        The video represents a mini-tragedy for the children who will ultimately find themselves at a competitive disadvantage in the science class room.  As they get older they will fall increasingly behind, especially relative to European, Russian, Australian, Canadian, Japanese, Korean, and Chinese children, who are not indoctrinated with patently false and scientifically worthless concepts.  

        It is also a tragedy for America, since more than ever we require better scientific education to keep pace with technological progress that is taking place in the rest of the world.  Like the Jihadists and other cults, creationists engage in the indoctrination of young children in an attempt to block scientific understanding and critical thinking skills, in the vain hope that this will somehow insulate them from the need to think critically and to maintain an active curiosity about all things.  Without such indoctrination, the entire creationist business model would fall apart.  Children are impressionable and can be easily tricked or deluded.  Hence, they prey upon children.   Unfortunately, we all pay a price for their subsequent ignorance of science as it is much harder to train them later and to undo the intellectual damage that has been done to young minds.

        In many ways biological and medical science are on a cusp of integration with engineering and computer technologies that will shape the 21st century and beyond.  As these subdisciplines advance and as they integrate, entirely new industries, economies, and ways of living will emerge.  There is already a clear emergent role the integration of these technolgies play in the defence industry and on the battlefield.  

        Unfortunately, for all too many young Americans, they will be poorly equipped to compete without a sound fundamental knowledge of biology, which requires a detailed understanding of evolution by means of natural selection.  Progressives and thinking persons everywhere must work hard against forces that seek to substitute ignorance for knowledge and understanding in our science classrooms.  Otherwise, our society as a whole is placed at risk from such false teachings.  Would anyone seriously hire a witch doctor or shaman to perform surgery?  Why would we want biomedical engineers making unsound products, or worse falling behind in biological science and ceeding the wealth it produces entirely to other nations?

        One way to do prevent this is to push for requirements for comprehensive testing of important evolutionary concepts early in students careers.  Such knowledge must be made a prerequisite for a high school diploma and entrance into college, and for an undergraduate degree of any type, and for any employment in the biomedical profession at levels necessary and sufficient to improve our national competitiveness.  

        While many parents may feel this puts their students at a disadvantage, at least they will begin to understand that their students are indeed at a disadvantage, especially if their children are raised on false and misleading concepts that have no scientific merit.  Society needs to be protected against ignorance so that the underpinnings of our strategic scientific competitiveness is not undermined.

        It is ironic that to teach their biblical mythology these "creationists" are forced to break the commandment "Thou shall not bear false witness".  It can be argued theologically that they are in fact damning students to a terrible fate as a result.  Hence, there are important spiritual reasons for the teaching an understanding of evolution as well.  Otherwise, students will be denied the truth about how we and all other organisms came into being and they will be very poorly equiped to understand how cultural and genetic diversity has originated.  

        With more and more people on the planet all the time and with relatively fewer of them being Americans, it is imperative that increased efforts be made to secure a technological future for Americans so that they will not become subservient to others as science progesses as has already taken place in too many of our industries.  If we fail to invest in sound science, we are doomed.

        Given the failure of this adminstration to invest in the scientific infrastructure necessary to keep America competitive in the next 10 to 20 years, we are already begun to see a shift in leadership of many important fundamental sciences to other countries.  This is particulary true in particle physics, genetic engineering, and solar and wind technologies, but to name a few important disciplines with important biological implications.  Without a solid understanding of how evolution works, Americans will be unable to compete in biological science and ultimately in a technological world where Biology and Engineering merge as disciplines.  

        Americans will also be at risk in that they will have reduced understanding of the consequences of
        technological change on biological systems that we require to survive as human organisms.  A failure by a large segment of our population to understand the consequences and science of global warming, the disruptions caused by non-indigenous species, and the mutation of pathological organisms creates a situation

        by Velvetfish on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 10:22:38 PM PDT

    •  this ain't new

      The creationists have been giving "tours" of the Grand Canyon for decades now, pointing out how it shows that the earth is only 6,000 years old.

      Heck, there are even creationist tours that take the gullible on FOSSIL-HUNTING trips, so they can see the, uh, "scientific evidence for a global flood" for themselves.

      These things, while annoying, are pretty much harmless.  They do nothing but preach to the choir.  Nobody else pays them the slightest attention.

      Just like the "creationist museum".

      by Lenny Flank on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 04:19:55 PM PDT

      •  I wonder

        what would happen if the local college set up a series of student tours of the churches that sponser these museum tours to demonstrate to the students what scientific ignorance looks like and how it can be perpetuated in a sealed social setting.

        by pamur on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 10:14:51 PM PDT

  •  The Denver Museum of Natural History

    was the first museum I ever visited and I was awestruck. My grandma took me and I remember it being so big (i was very little).

    The fact that these creationist morons are using it to peddle their ignorant ideology makes me SO DAMN MAD.

    If they want to preach stupidity let them build their own museum.  Stop defiling mine.

    My sister lives in Denver.  She's getting an email.  Maybe she can find a group that is fighting this.

    by faction on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 06:50:23 PM PDT

    •  there's nothing to fight

      It's a public museum.  Anyone can go there, with anyone they want, and tell the person they are with anything they want.

      No matter how idiotic.

      by Lenny Flank on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 07:15:36 PM PDT

•  This is a pleasure to read

  They brought it on themselves

  At a time when the GOP presidential nominee will need more assistance than ever, a number of state Republican parties are struggling through troubled times, suffering from internal strife, poor fundraising, onerous debt, scandal or voting trends that are conspiring to relegate the local branches of the party to near-irrelevance.

  In some of the largest, smallest, reddest and bluest states in the nation, many state Republican organizations are still reeling in the aftermath of the devastating 2006 election cycle, raising questions about how much grassroots help the state parties will be able to deliver to presumptive GOP nominee John McCain.

  by MLDB on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:33:16 AM PDT

•  Hope and the universality of human imperfection

  is the title both of my diary this morning and the Boston Globe column by James Carroll which inspired it.  Carroll examines Obama’s speech in a broader and I think interesting context.  I strongly urge you to read the Carroll, and would be delighted if you also read my diary  and chose to comment.

  Peace.

  by teacherken on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:33:35 AM PDT

•  Rove is seeking relevency

  Like so many operatives before him, he is not willing to fade into a wealthy, comfortable anonymous existence.  Instead he wants to be the man who calls the shots. Of course he has to claim Iraq is the key to the election. The problem is that he is fighting the 2000 election all over again, this time with Iraq as an added albatross.

  Watch Grover Norquist struggle for relevency to see Rove's future.

  by entlord1 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:33:49 AM PDT

•  McCain vs. McCain

  How very Young Terry Gilliam

  by JML9999 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:33:57 AM PDT

  •  Yes

    I did not do him justice with my limited flash skills.

    by jonah in nyc on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:16:50 PM PDT

•  One of the Best Diaries ever

  posted at DailyKos is Strange Fruit revisited by Deoliver47. You have to read this diary!

  by hungrycoyote on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:34:37 AM PDT

  •  Agreed.

    by martydd on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:09:10 PM PDT

  •  agreed

    Go read that diary.  I may be a newbie, but I'm in awe.

    by AndersOSU on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:43:52 PM PDT

•  BBC clip of McCain and Lieberman

  yesterday viewing showed McCain posing for a photo with Tony Blair and Lieberman very boldly marching up (and he was marching) to stand beside them for the photo op. It was the body language that spoke volumes. He will be the running mate, he looks annointed.

  by ohcanada on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:35:51 AM PDT

  •  Britain asked to Re-Invade Basra?

    http://news.yahoo.com/...
    One wonders if this wasn't a topic at the Tony Blair event.

    by JML9999 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:39:59 AM PDT

    •  Brown has more brains

      The Brits are out of Basra; the Badr Corps (probably with US support) is going to go to war with al Sadr's Mahdi Army over the oil production available there. This is Shi'a on Shi'a violence so we can be counted on to completely misunderstand it altogether.

      by entlord1 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:42:22 AM PDT

  •  Oh, I hope so.

    If I had to list the worst possible choices for the Republicans to anoint as a VP candidate, Loserman would be off the top of the paper.

    by Moody Loner on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:03:29 PM PDT

    •  No Kidding

      McCain to Republicans:  There Are No Republicans Qualified to be Republican VP

      by karateexplosions on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:16:48 PM PDT

•  Voting for Progressive Patriot ends today at 5pm

  I think Mark Udall is the obvious choice.  Here's my diary saying why:
  http://www.dailykos.com/...

  Vote by 5pm today!  (follow the "vote" link in that diary)

  by cos on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:36:30 AM PDT

  •  Vote for Mark Udall

    Just wanted to get that into the comment title for people skimming :)

    Vote here.

    by cos on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:41:12 AM PDT

•  Any ideas on how to help

  with the issue of the Young Earth Creationists at the Denver Museum of Nature & Science?

  I would be happy to help out if there is some way to put a stop to that.

  by Prof Dave on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:36:40 AM PDT

  •  That video made me so mad/sad.

    We already have an uphill climb for excellence in Science education.  Think of the hole these kids will have to climb out of.  This is almost a form of cultish child abuse in my mind.

    There are some efforts to put some standards on home education but I don't know much about how far they have come.

    by dogheaven on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:45:37 AM PDT

    •  I think indoctrination is a form of child abuse

      Kids should be taught how to think not what to think.

      by ryan81 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:59:10 AM PDT

    •  yup

      when I hear stuff like that, I think that Judge in California had it right when he said that home schooling instruction must be, by law, by accredited teachers.

      by HugoDog on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:07:20 PM PDT

  •  there is no way to stop it

    There is no law against believing whatever religious opinions one likes, and actively trying to convert others to them.  

    Nor should there be.

    No matter HOW silly or stupid those religious opinions might be.

    One suggestion, though --- buy some anti-creationist books and hand them out to everyone on the "tour".

    by Lenny Flank on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 04:22:33 PM PDT

    •  Arm yourselves

      with some smart questions about the exhibits on the tour and ask them during their tours.  Have intelligent rebuttals or secondary questions ready for their answers.  
      Maybe follow a couple "undercover" and get the gist of what they are preaching and prepare yourself ahead of time.

      Keep at it until it is pretty darn clear they are idiots.  or they run away crying.

      examples right off the top of my head from the vid clip...

      1.  but don't horses and cows have blunt teeth to eat plantlife?  tigers and paranhas have sharp teeth to eat meat.  the t-rex has sharp teeth like tigers...how do you explain that?

      (make the examples fun for kids--kids like tigers :D )

      2.  oh yeah, and what about that carbon-dating?

      3.  and the fact that human fossils aren't anywhere near dinosaur fossils.

      4. the similarities between bone structures of different species.

      5.  the evolution we see at the micro level of bacterium.

      6.....

      surely there are smarter people than me here that can come up with other examples.

      or use their own bible against them.

      or make some picket signs and follow them around

      I wonder if the Museum people have any ideas?

      by faction on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 07:10:02 PM PDT

      •  why?

        All you will do is

        (1) get arrested

        and

        (2) feed their massive martyr complex

        They have every legal right to visit a museum, with whomever they want, and talk about whatever they want with whoever they go there with.

        We, on the other hand, have NO legal right to prevent anyone from visiting the museum, or bringing anyone they want with them, or talking about anything they want with the people they bring.

        We also have NO legal right to interfere with anyone, at any museum, who is peacefully carrying out lawful activity.

        I don't like creationists any more than you do.  (Indeed, I'm willing to bet that I like them A LOT LESS than you do.)  But this is still a free country, and people still have the right to hold whatever religious beliefs they like and lawfully preach those beliefs to others.  No matter HOW idiotic those beleifs might be.

        by Lenny Flank on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 07:21:42 PM PDT

•  Good Afternoon

  Relieve Mr. Spath's follow up with the surgeon went well this morning.

  This diary by jackbauer8393 highlights just how much of a sociopath our current VP really is.

  I don't know what the deal is with me, but I've gone on a total didge kick. Before that, it was the igil.

  I'm just weird.

  "They're all crazy. They're all crazy except you and me. Sometimes I have me doubts about you." -- Garrett Fort

  by Spathiphyllum on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:37:10 AM PDT

•  Indeed

  That is no way to end the war.

  by discocarp on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:37:37 AM PDT

•  MORPH ANIMATION: who Hillary is becoming:

  Hillary Clinton starts to look like a certain ex-Democrat

  by Professor Smartass on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:37:44 AM PDT

  •  My eyes! My eyes! n/t

    by llamaRCA on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:13:48 PM PDT

    •  sorry, I should have put up a Vichy Dem warning

      by Professor Smartass on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:25:53 PM PDT

•  Hillary's Tax Returns by April 19th (Time)

  I thought it was by April 15th... but now, at least 3 days before Pennsylvania votes (without any time to question Hillary about what's uncovered mind you)

  Meanwhile Wolfson proves he buys really good drugs with this comment

  Calls on Obama to release all of his returns, Senate records as well.
  “This is a two-way street.”

  by Steven R on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:37:55 AM PDT

•  CNN had an

  offensive piece (I realize that is redundant) on 50-somethings forced to move back in with their elderly parents due to job loss and foreclosure.  The anchor kept laughing and saying, "TELL ME 50 year olds are not moving back in with their parents!  That's embarrassing!"

  This is how removed the media is from reality.   Yes, it is embarrassing.  It's embarrassing that a nation with the wealth of the US is plunging millions of working people into such despair and poverty that they are losing their homes, their jobs, their hope.  It's astonishing to me (why, I do not know, apparently I have not yet reached Absolute Cynicism) that a media outlet would make this issue one of mirth.

  by KibbutzAmiad on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:38:05 AM PDT

  •  I will go you one farther

    because there is the question of what happened to the 20something kids or are we seeing a 4 generation household in the making due to the economy. The talking head that laughed at the situation evidently feels he will never lose a job or become disabled or find out that $2M in a 401K doesn't last long when health insurance is dropped or that when you cannot afford attorneys, that the vultures come out of the wordwork.

    However, since the universe is circular, chances are life will give him the chance to learn about it.

    by entlord1 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:45:14 AM PDT

    •  Only a vague

      fear of karma makes me hesitate to hope it happens very very soon to all the smirkers.

      To all the smug, self-satisfied, blame-the-victim scum on Free Republic, to all the overfed, overprivileged assholes out there - well, I do hope that you find out first hand what this is like.

      I think maybe I just violated my own fear of karma.

      I've seen asinine pieces on the economy many times (there are few that aren't in that category) but there is something so utterly offensive about laughing about the tragedy that causes this trend.

      While I don't think that multi-generational homes are a bad thing per se, they are being born out of great pain and loss.

      by KibbutzAmiad on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:48:49 AM PDT

      •  Even if it happened to the smirkers

        they would blame it on brown people.  

        by Nailbanger on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:56:35 AM PDT

      •  The problem is that the fall comes so quickly

        and a 50 year old job hunting has few resources since he should be anticipating his most productive rewarding years with most of the childrearing done or within sight of completion and the path after years of struggle finally clear.
        Instead, he is back in on the parents with kids and grandkids in tow (I have seen it) with no job, few prospects, and less hope.
        I have to wonder how many suicides this GOP engendered prosperity has caused?

        by entlord1 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:03:17 PM PDT

        •  And CNN is telling

          these people THEY should be "embarrassed".

          They should be enraged, disgusted, radicalized.  The one damn thing no one in this situation should be is "embarrassed".

          Unless you're an asshole on CNN laughing at people who have suffered economic disasters.  Then you should be real embarrassed.  Or unemployed.

          by KibbutzAmiad on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:11:11 PM PDT

  •  CNN populated by trust funders

    their anchors are rich pretty people who didn't want to do real work. They're not journalists.

    by Stroszek on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:46:54 AM PDT

    •  this is so true in the present time

      as there was a time when journalists were far from trust fund kids, many came from humble beginnings and worked hard to get their top positions. Of course there was also the day when news was news and not this sensational tabloid junk that is is today.

      But Anderson Cooper is the son of Gloria Vanderbilt, I do believe?

      And MSNBC has several anchors who are the children of famous parents?

      I think most in the media are clueless about how the average person lives and what is really happening in America.

      by wishingwell on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:50:48 AM PDT

      •  Anderson Cooper from the ultra rich Vanderbilts

        Cooper was born on June 3, 1967 in New York City, the younger son of the writer Wyatt Emory Cooper and the artist, designer, writer, and heiress Gloria Vanderbilt, granddaughter of Cornelius Vanderbilt II of the prominent Vanderbilt Family of New York.

        From Wikipedia

        by wishingwell on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:52:29 AM PDT

      •  So working to them is not work

        but merely another activity to stave off boredom? Pity they could not have volunteered to help those needing help throughout the world but that would mean touching brown people who might spread leprosy.

        (BTW just for Lou Dobbs, studies have shown "immigrant vigor" exists where recent immigrants are healthier on the whole than their American counterparts. The advantage disappears after about 5 years residency)  

        by entlord1 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:06:06 PM PDT

      •  Yet Another Benefit of Lowering Top End Tax Rates

        The purpose of the American economy long ago became the restoration of aristocracy.

        by Gooserock on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:20:31 PM PDT

      •  He's a good guy, though

        I've seen him "slumming" with the locals in New Orleans.  If I had to bet, I would be fairly certain that AC is more in touch with middle-class Americans than most.  And his NOLA coverage has been good.

        by alpelican on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:25:22 PM PDT

  •  When Americans wake up and realize they

    are just serfs in a plutocracy, well, maybe then, things may change.

    by Jbeaudill on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:47:13 AM PDT

    •  I am surprised

      at how upset I was at this piece.  In the scheme of things, an arrogant anchor mocking victims of the economy is hardly unusual nor is it a tragedy.

      I haven't yet lost my home, though we are close.  But this had a "last straw" quality to it, a real "let 'em eat cake" moment.

      Turn the whole system upside down.

      by KibbutzAmiad on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:59:39 AM PDT

      •  RW radio has done this for years

        However it is now evidently OK for MSM to mock the poor since they can't buy the stuff the sponsors make.

        by entlord1 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:07:10 PM PDT

  •  That's Partly Why We Moved Aging Mom In

    She needs assistance but also housing at the moment is a big stretch for us, so while we retreat to a more affordable locale where we can buy the space needed to host our home craft biz, we've rebuilt the nest.

    by Gooserock on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:17:06 PM PDT

    •  Similar situation

      except as the fourth generation on the land, I have staked out where I will have to make my economic stand one way or the other.

      by entlord1 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:20:31 PM PDT

•  hope the rest of DKos starts to focus on McCain

  it might drive the candidates towards general elections or tamp down HRC's destruction of Obama;

  Marjorie Cohn was on radio this morning again saying Cheney/administration is planning war with Iran to help recapture the WH.

  Iran War GOP campaign issue

  Marjorie Cohn

  Marjorie Cohn became president of the National Lawyers Guild in October 2006. She also was recently recognized as one of San Diego’s Top Attorneys in Academics for 2006. She lectures throughout the world on international human rights and U.S. foreign policy.

  A news consultant for CBS News, and a legal analyst for Court TV, she also provides legal and political commentary on BBC, CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, NPR and Pacifica Radio. Co-author of the book Cameras in the Courtroom: Television and the Pursuit of Justice, Professor Cohn has published numerous articles in such journals as Fordham Law Review, Hastings Law Journal and Virginia Journal of International Law, as well as The National Law Journal, Christian Science Monitor and Chicago Tribune.

  Professor Cohn is a contributing editor to Jurist, MWC News and Guild Practitioner. She has been a criminal defense attorney at the trial and appellate levels for many years, and was staff counsel to the California Agricultural Labor Relations Board. Professor Cohn is the U.S. representative to the executive committee of the American Association of Jurists. The recipient of the San Diego County Bar Association’s 2005 Service to Legal Education Award, she sits on the Advisory Board for the Haywood Burns Memorial Fellowships for Social and Economic Justice, and serves on the Roster of Experts at the Institute for Public Accuracy. Professor Cohn was a legal observer in Iran on behalf of the International Association of Democratic Lawyers in 1978 and she has participated in delegations to Cuba, China and Yugoslavia. She lived in Mexico and is fluent in Spanish. Professor Cohn has taught at Thomas Jefferson since 1991.

  Posted November 23, 2007
  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

  Preventing the Impending War on Iran

  by pollwatch on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:38:06 AM PDT

  •  yes! I think we have to hammer the media

    to start scrutinizing John McCain the way they do every word Obama says.

    I will have to give applause to Dan Abrams for saying on his show last week.

    The media is giving John McCain a free pass. Enough with the Teflon John, we need to examine his record closely like we do with other candidates.

    by wishingwell on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:54:33 AM PDT

•  Be outraged

  Be very outraged. And contact your Senator and State Rep to have this man censured.

  by jackbauer8393 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:38:09 AM PDT

•  Keep Rove

  Remember Cassandra, who was given the power to accurately foretell the future but with the curse that no one would believe her?

  Rove is the Repub's obverse Cassandra--he keeps telling them lies, and no matter how counterintuitive, counterfactual, or over-the-counter-drug-induced they are, they have to believe them!  

  "The nation LOVES the war!"  Cheers.  Clapping.  "Right you are, Karl!  Let's run on that!"

  by kay dub on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:40:18 AM PDT

•  Former NH Sen. Bob Smith won't run for president

  with the Constitution Party.

  That leaves the path clear for former Alabama Supreme Court Chief Justice Roy Moore. The party chooses a nominee next month.

  John McCain's worst nightmare is about to become a reality.

  by quaoar on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:41:04 AM PDT

  •  Bob Smith endorsed John Kerry last time.

    I know that's particularly hard to believe given the plastic fetus he put on the Senate floor during the so-called "partial-birth" abortion debate and opposes just about every restriction there is to the purchase of firearms.

    by jim bow on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:55:44 AM PDT

  •  also there is some talk about Bob Barr

    running as an Independent and he was a former Republican Congressman. Bob Barr would peel off some Republican voters who do not like McCain.
    And that will not be hard to do as there are a ton of Republicans talking about holding their nose to vote for McCain.

    I heard something about Barr considering on one of the Sunday shows. I think it was that segment on Chris Matthews, Tell me Something I don't know. ..that is where they get to talk about what they are hearing off the record out there.

    by wishingwell on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:57:49 AM PDT

•  I thought manufacturing jobs were supposed

  to pay better than service sector jobs.

  CAMDEN, Ala. (CNNMoney.com) -- Corey Carter spends a quarter of his paycheck on gas.

  The 30-year old Carter, who earns $7 an hour making car parts for a Hyundai factory near Montgomery, Ala., spends $65 a week on gas, double what it cost just a few years ago.

  by Sacramento Dem on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:41:09 AM PDT

  •  No more,

    since unions were eviscerated and staked.

    Now, we are all sweat shop workers.  Including "professionals".

    by KibbutzAmiad on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:42:17 AM PDT

  •  Al is Right to Work

    I think which means no unions. No unions mean that trade jobs pay about the same as Walmart with as many benefits. The irony in this country is that we are one of the very few industrialized countries whose unions are in eclipse. They are doing very well in other countries (and even opera singers go on strike in France)

    by entlord1 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:47:22 AM PDT

    •  Just for comparison

      Compared to southern auto workers who are non-union, Buffalo-area workers, who are unionized, earn up to $45 an hour in wages and benefits, according to some company estimates.

      Link

      by Sacramento Dem on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:00:07 PM PDT

      •  yep and that is why the Southern states are

        so near and dear to Oriental manufacturers; with the weak dollar wages in those states are on a par with Guatamala or other traditional manufacturing "flight" countries.

        by entlord1 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:08:46 PM PDT

    •  On "Right to Work"

      I don't want to be too much of a pedant here, but folks on dkos throw the term "right to work" around a lot and often seem confused about what it actually means.  Here's what it means:

      According to federal law, certain elements of contracts between bosses and contracts are illegal (mainly if they violate the few employment discrimination laws we have).  Even if both sides agree, they can't be enforced.  Federal law allows states to pass laws making it illegal for union contracts to require all bargaining-unit employees (that is, all employees to whom the contract applies) to pay some kind of union dues.  It's illegal to force someone to join the union as a full member, but in non-right-to-work states it's legal for the contract to require the relevant employees to join or pay a portion of dues (usually about 85% or so, and usually referred to as "agency fees") to cover the costs of union representation.  

      Now, that has a lot of implications in terms of the workers' power in their union, but that's all a "right-to-work" state is: a state where the union and the boss can't agree to require all bargaining-unit members to pay some sort of dues as a condition of employment.

      by Pesto on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:38:13 PM PDT

  •  You can bet the jobs

    building air tankers in Alamabama won't pay a fraction of what the Boeing union employees are paid.

    by Many Dogs Barking on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:02:05 PM PDT

•  On Air America

  this morning, or rather the CNN news it uses during breaks, there was a quote from someone official on the Iraq war death toll that went, and I paraphrase,

  "The last soldier to die in this war - their PARENTS have not been born yet.  This is going to go on a long time."

  Did anyone else hear this?  It was around 7:30 a.m. CDST.

  by KibbutzAmiad on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:41:36 AM PDT

  •  Your kidding, what idiot said that?? n/t

    by flatford39 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:53:09 AM PDT

    •  Not

      kidding, unfortunately.  I was driving to work - it was on the Chicago Air America outlet - during the Bill Press show's news break.  I don't know who said it - I didn't catch the name and hope someone else heard it.  

      It was about 7:30 a.m.   It was the lead of the newsbreak, about the 4000 dead.

      by KibbutzAmiad on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:07:56 PM PDT

      •  I live in the NW burbs, Hasterts old district

        and listen to Press on my way to work as well. Didn't hear it but I may have gotten a phone call and missed it. Where are you at???

        by flatford39 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 02:40:19 PM PDT

        •  I am in

          IL - 6, the western suburbs, Roselle.  Roskam's district, alas.

          by KibbutzAmiad on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 03:19:26 PM PDT

          •  No kidding

            I am usually on Roselle road at the Elgin Ohare traveling north between 7:00AM and 7:30AM listening to the same radio station.

            Small world out there now isn't it.

            Your district is very winnable if Rahm would get involved monetarily instead of picking your candidate. Yeah I'm still harping about Cegelis. I thought she was the stronger candidate over Duckworth.

            by flatford39 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 04:14:58 PM PDT

            •  I was a volunteer

              with Cegelis twice.  What a mess that whole situation was....

              Are you involved in any of the peace and justice groups in the area?  I'm with a couple.  

              There is an upcoming winter soldier program this Sunday evening, put on by the DuPage Peace Through Justice Coalition, and it's going to be a good one.  

              by KibbutzAmiad on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 06:27:08 PM PDT

            •  by the way

              I was also on Roselle Road (albeit not on the tollway but heading north towards Barrington, where I work) when I heard this ; )

              by KibbutzAmiad on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 06:27:45 PM PDT

•  Texas County/SD Conventions on March 29

  kath25 has a "what to expect" diary for delegates and other interested parties.

  by Over the Edge on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:41:54 AM PDT

•  I watched the Denver Creationists in the Youtube

  Video.

  And I have one question for Creationists. If what you say is true...

  ...what can you do with it?

  Answer: Nothing.

  And what can you do with biology?

  Pretty much everything.

  Ignorant fools who live and thrive because of science and spend their lives trashing it.

  by moosely2006 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:42:30 AM PDT

  •  Easier question

    is if they vaccinate their children or even their dogs. If they don't believe in evolution then why worry about vaccination? It is all designed anyway.

    by entlord1 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:48:48 AM PDT

  •  And they Indoctrinate Kids

    As a Christian who believes that it is impossible for an intelligent and educated person to take every word of the Bible literally I think this borders on child abuse.  Biblical fundamentalism=biblical illiteracy.

    by ZachMartin88 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:53:33 AM PDT

•  McCain vs. Obama: Video Game Style

  

  by Stroszek on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:44:11 AM PDT

  •  YTMND

    by nightsweat on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:56:57 AM PDT

•  Valley Forge - sacred ground. We visited there

  in a light snow storm in a cold dark February years ago. I've never forgotten seeing Washington's tricorn hat hanging there. Our first president should be far more revered than he is by our citizens who seem to think of his birthday as a day to buy a car or mattress.

  by Jbeaudill on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:44:30 AM PDT

•  Gettysburg, Too

  My hubby and I vacationed East a couple summers ago, and one of our stops was to the battlefield in Gettysburg, PA (a stop I highly recommend). The big controversy while we were there is that some gaming group wanted to put a casino either on or very near the battlefield. Remember Civil War sacrifice by losing the shirt off your back, your kids' college fund, and your retirement savings!

  by CityLightsLover on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:47:02 AM PDT

  •  At one time years ago

    some consortium wanted to put an amusement park either on Gettysburg's ground or adjacent to it. I think the Eisenhowers became very involved in the dispute.

    by entlord1 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 11:50:20 AM PDT

    •  Resolution?

      I don't know how/if the controversy was resolved. Does anyone else?

      by CityLightsLover on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 12:05:46 PM PDT

      •  here is the one I think I remember

        in 1973, Marriott had plans for a park: