Primarying Hillary in '12

Although I have never supported Hillary Clinton for President, until last week I looked forward to the day when she returned to my state and continued serving us with her famed diligence and attention to detail.

No more.

Hillary Clinton has morphed into Joe-Mentum, not only attacking Obama from the right (or Wright?) but also mocking his supporters and indeed the democratic process itself. She also is increasingly carrying herself with that Joe-esque air of entitlement and resentment.

So I've had it. Hillary can serve out her term if she really wants to, but I will support and actively work for someone else in '12. He or she will no doubt be a long shot (if Hillary even decides to run again), but then again, so was Barack Obama four short months ago.

A few contenders:

Robert Kennedy Jr. - An environmental advocate and professor of Environmental Law at Pace Law School, RFK would immediately be a leading and authoritative voice on the premiere issue of our times. Unfortunately, he's also an HRC supporter so it's unlikely that he'd be willing to challenger her for her own Senate seat.

Tom Suozzi - Nassau County Executive and Spitzer's primary opponent in '06, Tom has done wonders for Nassau and built the Democratic party in that Republican bastion. He may decide to run for Governor again in '10, but I imagine he'll be defeated by either Gov. Paterson or Andrew Cuomo, who will almost certainly run. That leaves Suozzi plenty of time to prepare for a Senate bid two years later.

Nita Lowey - Congresswoman Lowey was considered a strong contender for Hillary's seat in 2000 and would have institutional advantages over lesser-known contenders.

Anyway, I'm relatively new to the area and not especially knowledgeable about NYS politics. I'd be interested to hear suggestions from others.

•  One thing's for sure:

  Hillary has earned this. I laughed at Jonathan Tasini in 2006. That's looking more and more like a mistake.

  by Reagan Smash on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:52:53 PM PDT

  •  Jonathan Tasini had no chance

    and would still have no chance

    by Buffalo Girl on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:57:38 PM PDT

    •  Well

      I definitely don't want him running again.

      The Dennis Kucinich of New York, as it were.

      by Reagan Smash on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:00:33 PM PDT

  •  Even Obama Girl gets it

    Hillary really needs to stop.

    by nisleib on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:58:05 PM PDT

    •  her music is so mediocre

      but I can't help but be glad she's doing this kind of stuff.

      by Nathaniel Ament Stone on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:01:46 PM PDT

      •  She is streatching

        it with this one, but hey, what the heck.

        And she isn't the singer, she is just lip synching.  The woman who sings and writes this stuff is really pretty good.  I bet it isn't easy to jam a bunch of points into a song and make it sound good.

        by nisleib on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:03:27 PM PDT

        •  she's not the singer?

          LOL

          by Nathaniel Ament Stone on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:07:52 PM PDT

          •  No

            she is a model who lucked into the gig.

            I think her past work experience includes doing something on Howard Stern and being in a C- movie called "Bikini Bandits."

            http://www.imdb.com/...

            by nisleib on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:13:28 PM PDT

      •  there's music on those videos? nt

        by strengthANDwisdom on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:07:25 PM PDT

    •  How do you ...

      post a video?

      by Sallyport on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:06:31 PM PDT

      •  Go to youtube

        and pick out a video.

        Now look at the right side of the screen there is a light grey box that says About this video.  Inside that grey box is a white stip with text in it that is titled "embed".  Copy that Embed stuff and paste it in your comments.  Voila!

        by nisleib on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:10:52 PM PDT

•  Isn't RFK Jr. a Hillary endorser?

  She would eb very tough to primary.

  Not saying ti wouldn't be doable, just tough.

  Maybe today indicates she's in her last throes and it will all be over soon?

  I really don't want to beleive she's tearing down Obama in order to insure he loses thus opening a window for her in 2012.

  - Albert Einstein

  by Walt starr on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:55:19 PM PDT

  •  He is,

    and I doubt he'd be willing to throw his hat in the ring. Too bad because in a perfect world he'd be my first choice.

    I'm with you on Obama - I want to believe that when it's all over, she'll be up on the stage in Denver heartily endorsing his bid. But the events of this week are making that look less and less likely.

    by Reagan Smash on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:57:15 PM PDT

  •  So is Nita Lowey

    I doubt she would challenge her as well. I dont know about Suozzi.

    by jj32 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:59:55 PM PDT

    •  Blasted!

      Didn't know that.

      by Reagan Smash on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:00:58 PM PDT

    •  And isn't Nita Lowey about 80 years old too?

      I grew up with her as my Congresswoman.  She's been there forever.  I can't see her putting in the effort to run for Senate when she's Congresswoman for life in Westchester.

      by punkdavid on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:55:26 PM PDT

      •  She was the frontrunner in 2000

        but in GE polls was trailing Giuliani badly, which is why Hillary came in.

        by nrafter530 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:36:15 PM PDT

        •  Well, she's not quite as old as I thought

          She's 70.  But she'll be 75 in 2012, and why would a Congresswoman-for-life run for the Senate at age 75?

          by punkdavid on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 03:22:26 PM PDT

  •  Nevertheless

    That's the only reasonable explanation for her behavior, sink the big O now and come back in '12.

    Shameful. She's not a Democrat, she represents the same crap Bill did, I call it "the friendly face of Fascism" as opposed to the brutal Repuke variety.

    That's the real debate that goes on in the circles of the elite. They're all corporatists and all want their interests held paramount over everyone else, they just disagree on what "face" they need to put out there.

    by Dave925 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:59:58 PM PDT

  •  Is Clinton seeking an Obama loss in the general?

    The problem is, if Clinton gets the nomination, she has won. If Obama gets the nomination and loses in the general, she's also won: not only does that possibly leave 2012 as an option, as you suggest, but it has two more advantages for her: it leaves Bill Clinton as the only Democratic President in a generation, and it "proves" that rejecting her for the nomination was a bad idea, because it wound up losing the White House. In fact, if you're sufficiently cynical, or sufficiently obliviously focused on the Clintons as opposed to the country, the only bad result for Clinton would be for Obama to beat Clinton and then beat McCain.

    I think that some person or group with real power needs to find a carrot (preferably not a veep nomination) or a stick sufficiently impressive to make Obama winning the Presidency better for Clinton than McCain winning.

    by Warren Terra on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:07:12 PM PDT

•  I am so with you on this

  by CaptUnderpants on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:55:59 PM PDT

•  There's no way

  Hillary will gain the support of the Democratic Party in 2012, regardless of who wins this time. She's burned too many bridges and revealed herself for exactly what she is -- a person blinded by her own ambition.  

  by sam2300 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:56:03 PM PDT

  •  I dunno

    she and Bill will still be relatively powerful, and they have plenty of time to mend fences. But hopefully people are starting to wake up to the fact that she will stop at nothing to win this unwinnable primary.

    by Reagan Smash on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:58:15 PM PDT

•  ALL Dinos

  Need to be primaried as they come up for re-election.

  No exceptions, no prisoners.

  by Dave925 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:56:27 PM PDT

•  Anthony Weiner!

  I like him.

  by Pragmaticus on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:57:00 PM PDT

  •  I don't know much about him,

    although I've heard good things.

    He really wants to be NYC mayor though, no?

    by Reagan Smash on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:01:47 PM PDT

  •  What about Bloomberg?

    Assuming he switches party affiliation.

    by lenzkrafterz on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:06:10 PM PDT

  •  He's Chuck Schumer's Mini-Me

    And the original model is loathsome enough without a compact doppelganger.

    by greenskeeper on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:55:04 PM PDT

•  Eliot Sp- oops

  by Buffalo Girl on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:57:01 PM PDT

  •  Oh, snap!

    by turnover on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:58:54 PM PDT

•  ...... STEPHEN COLBERT

  Come on, dude.  Just move across the river and the shit is yours.

  by Ouroboros on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:58:09 PM PDT

  •  His kids go to my sister's school.

    In New Jersey.  He's really nice.

    by Pragmaticus on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:00:06 PM PDT

  •  Sounds good to me! n/t

    by Reagan Smash on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:02:51 PM PDT

•  I agree, the time has come

  Clinton has crossed the line and it is time to go after her in 2012.

  by JCWilmore on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:59:24 PM PDT

•  I'm with yah on this

  I'm from upstate.  Let's get someone more serious than Tasini.

  by Hiraga on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:01:03 PM PDT

  •  No doubt

    I'd rather not see Tasini on the ballot again.

    by Reagan Smash on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:03:35 PM PDT

•  Maybe I'm wrong, but I think you can cross

  off anyone who endorsed Hillary to challenge her, which is a lot of political officials in NY.  

  by jj32 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:01:52 PM PDT

  •  And I would say

    the fact that the "i hope Obama loses so she can run again in 2012" attitude echoed by her supporters are here in Queens and Nassau leads me to believe...she's pretty damn safe.

    by nrafter530 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:34:46 PM PDT

    •  Yeah, she's not losing her Senate seat

      I dont think. I think there is little to no chance she's the 2012 Democratic presidential nominee.

      by jj32 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:47:23 PM PDT

      •  Yeah, I would agree with that too n/t

        by nrafter530 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:36:45 PM PDT

•  The post-Clinton era can't arrive soon enough

  Bill and Hillary are a fishbone in the throat of the party.

  by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:03:09 PM PDT

•  RFK, without hesitation

  Alliances and endorsements in politics are only convenient as long as they're convenient (isn't that right Gov Richardson?).  If HRC is widely perceived as having been an albatross to the Dems in '08, even if BHO ultimately prevails, there will be much resentment and RFK Jr will have solid moral ground to explain his reversal and decision to run against her.

  by SaintCog on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:05:36 PM PDT

  •  Problem

    RFK endorsed Clinton for the Presidential nom. That's not a deal-killer, but it does mean that he's going to need some tall convincing.

    by maxomai on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:15:36 PM PDT

•  This is a tad premature

  OK, more than a tad.  Look, people are very unhappy about some of the things that have been said and done in this campaign.  That's understandable.  But you have to look at this in the context of the big picture.  Four years from now, the political landscape will be a vastly different place and no one is really going to care about six months of campaign vitriol.  

  by sarahnity on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:06:29 PM PDT

  •  She's not beyond redemption

    Not yet, anyway. I still seperate the admirable woman from her loathesome campaign. She can still become a key and valued cog in the senate. This is politics, after all.

    by Asherd on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:15:14 PM PDT

    •  the woman is her campaign

      I get so frustrated by people who refuse to admit that the people in her campaign are her choice.

      She is the final stop for who is hired and who is fired.  This is her "loathesome campaign" which makes her "loathesome".

      by Jaspercat on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:36:27 PM PDT

•  probably not going to work

  HRC is doing a very good job as senator.  she can raise money with ease. She learned from Schumer and prior senators that "pothole" senators remain in office.  She has worked very hard at providing service to residents in NY who contact her office.  

  Unless she stops performing as a senator, she is in for as long as wants to.  In addition, she and Bill are still going to be draws for democratic fundraising.  I don't think revenge for her campaign this year will be a stong motivator for NY residents.  Despite everything, she is polling amoung dems at 42 to 46%, has high NY approval ratings and still supports a lot of progressive ideals when it comes to choice, womans rights, civil rights, etc.

  by arogue7 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:06:54 PM PDT

•  Ha! You all assume she's running ...

  for the Senate again in 2012. She's done with her stepping stone. She'll run for president again in 2012, even with Obama as president.

  The next four years are going to be spent cleaning up  the Republican mess and telling the American people that they can't have everything. For behaving like an adult and assuming the electorate are all adults as well, Barack will be despised by 2012.  

  by bad dad on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:23:24 PM PDT

  •  I would agree

    that this place will likely abandond a President Obama when they realize he can't deliver everything they want.

    but they won't choose Hillary as his replacement.

    by nrafter530 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:32:26 PM PDT

    •  It's not about not delivering what we want...

      It's about fixing what is broken before we take on more items.

      It's about repealing the capital gains tax reduction.
      It's about restoring the top income tax rate.
      It's about revising Medicare D.
      It's about restoring the estate tax.
      It's about paying our bills before we start new programs.
      It's about getting us out of Iraq without having the entire Middle East fall apart.
      It's about concentrating on Afghanistan again.
      It's about rebuilding, repairing and resting our overstretched military.
      It's about raising the FICA cap.
      It's about trying to stimulate the economy and having the Keynsian well already tapped dry while we deal with the worst stagflation since the late 70s.

      by bad dad on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:20:50 PM PDT

      •  That's what you want

        I don't think we'll see half that stuff accomplished by the end of Obama's or Clinton's first term in office. I would bet my entire checking account on that.

        by nrafter530 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:38:21 PM PDT

•  Stupid Diary

  by LaEscapee on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:25:24 PM PDT

  •  Sorry

    HR'ing you for ad hominem.

    Do understand.

    by Reagan Smash on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 08:37:46 PM PDT

•  Go ahead...but it will be a waste of money...

  Hillary will never lose a primary in NYS assuming she is still the Senator from NY...

  by dvogel001 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:25:26 PM PDT

•  all DINOs need primary challengers

  i'd add DiFi to the list as well.

  by wu ming on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:26:15 PM PDT

•  Have some fun primarying her

  I can think of several others who would be higher on my list (diane feinstein, anyone?) for primarying.  Sen. Clinton has been a good senator by any standards, not as good as some but a helluva lot better than others.  

  It's your right to try, but I wouldn't expect a ton of monetary support.  There are republicans out there that deserve defeat a lot more.  

  by dougymi on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:26:55 PM PDT

  •  Never said I expected a bunch of support.

    Indeed, I said it would be difficult.

    I agree with you on DiFi.

    by Reagan Smash on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 08:38:44 PM PDT

•  TOM SUOZZI?!?!?!

  The fact that you want to replace Hillary Clinton with Tom Suozzi shows how little you know about Suozzi or just how much your hatred of Hillary has blinded your view of reality. Replacing Clinton with Suozzi would be like replacing Brownback with McCain because Brownback wasn't anti-gay enough.

  I agree Suozzi would be an excellent governor and even a Senator, but not because he'd be more liberal, he wouldn't.

  Did you know Suozzi was decertified as a delegate at the 2004 Democratic Convention...do you know why?

  by nrafter530 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:29:38 PM PDT

  •  Nope, but at the same time

    I don't understand your Brownback-McCain argument. Go figure.

    by Reagan Smash on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 08:40:55 PM PDT

•  She Won't Run in 2012

  She may not finish her term.

  Opportunities in the private sector, without the constraints of campaign finance rules or ethics guidelines will exert a very strong draw, and at her age, she doesn't have very many more years to cash out on her years of "public service."

  by greenskeeper on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:57:42 PM PDT

•  RFK!

  FYI: Tom Suozzi is an utter dumbshit (from personal experience).

  Lowey is pretty old, I'd rather see someone who could hold the seat for a while.

  by PBJ Diddy on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:05:50 PM PDT

•  I have a top 10

  Since I don't think Hillary will run again in 2012, here are my top 10 choices for an open seat;

  1.) Rep. Kirsten Gillibrand
  2.) Rep. Gregory Meeks
  3.) Rep. Anthony Weiner
  4.) Syracuse Mayor Matthew Driscoll
  5.) (Rep.) Eric Massa
  6.) State Senator Diane Savino (Staten Island)
  7.) Rep. Joseph Crowley
  8.) State Senator Jeffrey Klein (Bronx/Westchester)
  9.) State Senator Darrel Aubertine (Cape Vincent)
  10.) (Rep) Jonathan Powers

  You'll notice that despite the fact I'm from downstate, many of my choices come from Upstate.

  by nrafter530 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 02:46:30 PM PDT