Praying with the enemy: A Hillary Hypocrisy Primer

Al Rodgers has nice diary up about the recent brouhaha over Hillary's interview with arch-enemy Scaife. But I think the more appropriate title isn't 'Sleeping with the enemy'--I suspect Hillary doesn't do much of that. The more correct title I believe is Praying with the Enemy -- which Hillary has done for quite some time.

I've always found talking about the Goldwater girl being "a liberal" a kind of ridiculous idea. She's a centrist, and except for a bare handful of signature social issues, hardly more liberal than my Republican mother. But Al still has his title somewhat off--she's not "sleeping" with these guys. She's PRAYING with them--what many might consider a more intimate relationship.

There's a nice piece inMother Jones on the details here....and Booman23 references it in his diary The Clintons Have Crossed the Final Line. But I wanted to fill out the link for those who might pass over it. It's quite a doozy. In her book, she cops to being a member of the ultra conservative "Fellowship"...defined below:

The Fellowship's long-term goal is "a leadership led by God—leaders of all levels of society who direct projects as they are led by the spirit."

According to Boomman23...

The Fellowship leader is Doug Coe, who Clinton has described as "a unique presence in Washington: a genuinely loving spiritual mentor and guide to anyone, regardless of party or faith, who wants to deepen his or her relationship with God."

The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God's plan.

The list of attendees is a who's who of conservative politics:

Coe's friends include former Attorney General John Ashcroft, Reaganite Edwin Meese III, and ultraconservative Rep. Joe Pitts (R-Pa.). Under Coe's guidance, Meese has hosted weekly prayer breakfasts for politicians, businesspeople, and diplomats, and Pitts rose from obscurity to head the House Values Action Team, an off-the-record network of religious right groups and members of Congress created by Tom DeLay. The corresponding Senate Values Action Team is guided by another Coe protégé, Brownback, who also claims to have recruited King Abdullah of Jordan into a regular study of Jesus' teachings.

But that's not what makes them especially offensive--though that's bad enough. What makes them especially offensive is the other company they keep:

According to the Fellowship's archives, the spirit has in the past led its members in Congress to increase U.S. support for the Duvalier regime in Haiti and the Park dictatorship in South Korea [both pyschopathetic murderers for those who don't know this].

The Fellowship's God-led men have also included General Suharto of Indonesia; Honduran general and death squad organizer Gustavo Alvarez Martinez; a Deutsche Bank official disgraced by financial ties to Hitler; and dictator Siad Barre of Somalia, [need I add that all those listed could easily be put on trial for human rights violations, war crimes and in at least two instances, genocide?]plus a list of other generals and dictators. Clinton, says Schenck, has become a regular visitor to Coe's Arlington, Virginia, headquarters, a former convent where Coe provides members of Congress with sex-segregated housing and spiritual guidance.

People who vote for Hillary must simply not know this --that's the generous explanation.

I find it especially amusing that she wants Obama to leave his church, a church that practices a socially conscious form of liberation theology which is probably the closest thing in contemporary society to what Jesus had in mind.

What church would Hillary suggest he replace it with? The one where we pray for the quick annihilation of our Somali brothers? Or perhaps the church where we pray for the eminent slaughter of our little brown brothers in Honduras? or Haiti?

It's hard to read the details of this--from Mother Jones and in her own book -- and not come away with the notion that  Hillary is worse than a mere political opportunist. She is a hypocrite and a liar. And she "enjoys" a 'religion' that holds in its secret prayer circle some of the most murderous regimes in the 20th century.

•  Tips & a Prayer for the Democratic party

  by DelicateMonster on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 06:11:52 PM PDT

  •  The worst thing that HRC said about her church

    was that she was glad it STOPPED being a church with a social conscience.  Isn't that all anyone needs to know about this person's spiritual life?

    In an interview with the United Methodist Reporter, she expressed regret that her church had focused too much on social gospel concerns in the '60s, '70s, and '80s, "to the exclusion of personal faith and growth." The spirit, believe theological conservatives, matters more than the flesh. Clinton added that she was happy to see her liberal denomination becoming more salvation centered in the '90s.

    Hillary's Prayer: Hillary Clinton's Religion and Politics

    Do we really want as president someone who expresses "regret" that her church focused on social gospel too much?

    by Gregory Wonderwheel on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 05:49:57 AM PDT

•  I think it silly that we refer to the GOP as the

  enemy, they are rivals but enemy that seems to strong. We're all Americans here.

  by SensibleDemocrat on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 06:13:35 PM PDT

  •  Check out who is included in her prayer group

    I personally don't mind calling Duvalier or Suharto an 'enemy'--they're enemies to progressives everywhere. And they've killed more of their own people than a few thousand 9/11s --combined.

    by DelicateMonster on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 06:17:06 PM PDT

  •  They've spent the past 30 years.....

    ....trying to dismantle the Republic.

    They're the enemy and their leadership should count themselves lucky to not be facing a rope.

    by Corwin Weber on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 08:00:35 PM PDT

  •  Yes and no on "enemy".

    Like Republicans say of homosexuala, "I love the person and hate the sin."
    Being a Republican is a sin against humanity, so I love the person and hate the sin of Republicanism. The world view of Republicanism, i.e., fascism, is the enemy humanity and even Democrats have to be vigilent for its appearance, as in the liberal fascism of the Clintons.
    Each of us as individuals needs to be alert to this enemy within our own consciousness. The Republicans are Americans, but they are Americans who favor fascism over humanitarianism, dictators and oppressors over democracy and commonwealth.

    by Gregory Wonderwheel on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 05:26:37 AM PDT

•  What church would Hillary have Barack move to?

  Silly question.

  Al-Aar Muslim Center on N. Pulaski.  

  Then her work would be done.

  by captainlaser on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 06:21:21 PM PDT

•  What's odd...

  ...for me is just looking at the mugs of these two candidates.  

  Indulge me for a moment: In the context of the candidate winning by the mandate of God Obama always struck me as more naturally Aristocratic than Clinton. That is what the mandate of heaven is I suppose. Aristocrats lording it over the commoners.

  He has a look in his eye that suggests the world was made for him and that's that.

  It's  a bit uncanny, she actually seemed like the one faking the Duchess act and Obama cold as ice knowing he'd beat her cocking his eye from under his top hat as he lounges around his Club drinking Brandy and smoking cheroots.

  by Salo on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 06:22:32 PM PDT

  •  Hey, I don't think it's actually just 'look'

    It's in self-possession, in delivery and in attitude. I'm sure you saw it in Obama's 'race' speech. It's the (paraphrased) question Carville asked: "Do you see any other president on that stage?"

    by DelicateMonster on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 06:26:23 PM PDT

    •  No I saw it at Eton once.

      it's called the vanity of an Eton Duke.

      by Salo on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 06:29:34 PM PDT

      •  I don't know you but I have to call this out

        In Bloomberg's polls of Obama a lot of people w/racialist attitudes stated the same thing.

        In my life experience the jauntiness of an educated black/brown person was just a new way of saying "uppity".  It seems to be a subtle even subconscious idea that Obama doesn't know his place.

        You even name things that you know Obama doesn't do, (like longue around in a country club).  Even though he's rival does do those things.

        I'm sorry you might not be pushing this meme (and I have seen it pushed on HRC 44 and Taylor Marsh), if you are not, you might have some underlying resentment.

        Some people do this when they see a Black/Brown person achieve some lofty goal (that they themselves have/can not achieve).

        If you are just pushing the meme, then you are truly a sick individual that hates America.

        by Shhs on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 07:28:37 PM PDT

        •  Right, he doesn't properly lower is eyes

          when "white" people are in the room.

          It is amazing what some people project of their own imagination and bias onto others.

          by Gregory Wonderwheel on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 05:30:43 AM PDT

  •  Thanks for sharing your Rhorschat projections.

    by Gregory Wonderwheel on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 05:29:06 AM PDT

•  alrkej

  by second gen on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 06:25:58 PM PDT

  •  That is a truly

    frightening melt down clip :0

    by DelicateMonster on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 06:29:30 PM PDT

  •  The clip doesn't show up on my screen.

    is there a link to the original?

    by Gregory Wonderwheel on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 06:15:01 AM PDT

•  Isn't this America, and

  doesn't the Constitution say there should be a separation of church and state? We are electing a President, so I think it should make absolutely no difference where any of the candidates choose to worship, who is their pastor, or what their "religious" beliefs might be. That goes for Mitt Romney too, why should his belief in the Mormon religion make it so difficult to become President of the U.S., and why was it so important for him to make a speech on religion. I think Obama's speech on race was necessary and the fact that it swiftly bypassed the religious issue made me even happier. I don't care about Hillary's church or religious sect, who belongs to it, and what they preach, just as I don't care what Pastor Wright had to say in his sermons.

  by Vera Lofaro on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 06:50:44 PM PDT

  •  I do --and I vote! So do a lot of other folks I

    know.

    Besides, in the perfect world --a delusion to be sure--you might not mix politics and religion, but in our world--particularly in American politics--it's part and parcel. Now if Clinton would have left this shit alone, I wouldn't feel obligated to rip her pathetic Opus Dei bullshit soul out of her cowardly chest and show it to the world, but since she's a fucking  hypocrite, let's just say I feel obliged.

    Need more evidence? Here's another little snippet that shows Clintons glaring hypocrisy in this regard:

    Clinton could have contented herself with decrying Wright's messages without saying, in essence, that no way would she tolerate an association with the likes of him.

    That's what Brazile picked up on, making a reference to Wright's willingness to join dozens of other religious figures in attending an annual White House prayer breakfast just as the Starr report on Bill Clinton's affair with Monica Lewinsky -- in all its lurid detail -- was about to come out. No doubt ...

    ... those at the event -- at least the vast majority of them -- highly disapproved of Clinton's behavior. But they were not willing to shun him.

    Brazile's none-too-subtle point: There's a potential downside to turning away, with nary a forgiving nod, from those who once stood by you.

    by DelicateMonster on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 07:02:46 PM PDT

    •  There is no doubt Hillary is a hypocrite

      it shows in her every word and deed. Having said that, I am sick to death of the merging religion and politics, and I say that as a practicing Christian. My religion is personal, and I am not voting for a Pope, I am voting for a President. I want it to be kept separate. What is that saying, "render unto Caesar, what is Caesar's, and render unto God, what is God's. Not sure of the exact quote, but I understand what is meant by it. It has no place in the political arena, even he American political arena, just because the Republicans do it, doesn't make it right.

      by Vera Lofaro on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 08:11:13 PM PDT

      •  The quote

        "Render unto Caesars what is Caesars, and render unto God what is God's"

        Is from the New Testament--Jesus's words to someone who is tauntingly asking him what he should do about the tax collectors who were hated in the Palestine. His remark is often taken to mean that a separation of Church and state concerns is good.

        I tend to agree. However, that doesn't mean that they don't often mix--in mostly unfortunate ways.  

        by DelicateMonster on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 08:23:45 PM PDT

        •  The quote was about money.

          The quote "Render unto Caesars what is Caesars, and render unto God what is God's" is referring to tax money. Jesus was pointing out that the money had Ceasar's picture on it so it belonged to Ceaser in the first place.

          The context of that statement is that Jesus grew up in the Essene community that did not believe in money. The Essene of Nasareth where Joseph and Mary lived and raised Jesus practiced a communal life style were all the people in the Essene Community shared common stores and wealth. There was no use for money within the Essene community.  Whenever and Essene from one community came to another community they would just seek out the local Essenes and could share their meals and labors.

          That is wny Jesus said to not have belongings and to just pick up a staff and sandals and go, because he was advocating the Essene's social gospel community, not the money based community. That is why the money changers in the Temple were so offensive to Jesus.

          by Gregory Wonderwheel on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 06:11:27 AM PDT

          •  Thanks for the historical note...

            very interesting tidbit.

            by DelicateMonster on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 06:40:42 AM PDT

  •  It's not what she believes, but what she says.

    Clinton is free to believe what she wants. But what she says about her beliefs do matter.

    Recently she said she would have left any church that had a preacher like Rev. Wright. That is important speech by Clinton that needs to be evaluated by voters.  Instead of speaking up for Rev. Wright and his social gospel and criticism of American injustices (exactly like Micah of the Old Testamenr criticized the tribes of Jacob and Israel), Clinton piles on and went evern further alledging that no right thinking person like her would stay in his church so all the people who did were wrong to stay.   That is so outrageous it becomes something that the MSM just accepts without analysis.

    That coupled with her previous statement that she regretted her own church being too interested in social gospel and you have a person who is telling the world about her true feeelings about social justice and injustice. That is not about her religion but her social conscience.  Which looks pretty weak in the light of her own statements.

    by Gregory Wonderwheel on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 06:02:08 AM PDT

    •  But Gregory,

      Can anyone believe what Hillary has to say? Even the speaking up against Imus quote. Imus hated Hillary, Hillary hated Imus. Every single day on his program when given the chance he ripped into her. This whole speaking out against Imus was her get even moment, he was not someone she was ever in agreement with. Honestly, I can not believe anything that comes from either one of them, Bill or Hillary.

      by Vera Lofaro on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 08:47:49 PM PDT

•  Is Hillary God's Chosen One (only slightly snark)

  Glad to see this is getting some play.

  http://www.dailykos.com/...

  I am also looking into something that may tie your diary together with Al Rogers' diary about Scaife.

   

  by Into The Woods on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 09:09:46 PM PDT

  •  Good diary

    I see from the comments there that most folks were a little freaked out.

    Understandable. But for HRC, I think the Fellowship thing makes perfect sense.

    And, frankly, it's chilling.

    by DelicateMonster on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 07:23:31 AM PDT